RAW Regulator Seat - Peek or Not?
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RAW Regulator Seat - Peek or Not?
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Topic: RAW Regulator Seat - Peek or Not? (Read 718 times))
SpiralGroove
Ruminating Perfectionist !!!
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 7200
>The gun's gotta look good and shoot straight ->
Real Name: Kirk
RAW Regulator Seat - Peek or Not?
«
on:
June 10, 2021, 08:38:06 PM »
Guys,
Attached is a photo of my RAW Regulator Seat that looks very white.
Peek normally is
more
Flesh color or light brown ...
What do you guys think? Peek or White Delrin?
«
Last Edit: June 10, 2021, 08:41:18 PM by SpiralGroove
»
Logged
Bothell, WA
PCP's:
AR2079A-HPA (.177)
AR2079A-HPA (.22)
BSA R10 (.177) Huma Regulated
RAW HM1000x LRT Camo - (.20) + .177, .22 Barrels
RAW HM1000x LRT RED - (.25)
RAW HM1000x LRT Blue - (.22) + .25 Barrel
QB78 (.177) OEM
Pumper's:
1973 Benjamin Franklin 342
1984 Benjamin Franklin 347
Springer's:
Beeman R9 (.20) - Circa 2019
Beeman R10 (.20) - Circa 1988
HW30S (.177)
HW35E (2) - Blued (.177)
HW35E - Silver (.177)
HW50S - Blued (.177)
HW50S - Silver (.177)
HW80S (.20)
HW80SLK (.177) (.20)
HW95 Hybrid (HW98 stock) (.177)
rsterne
Member 2000+fps Club
Bob and Lloyd
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 26958
GTA Forums Person of the Year 2017
Real Name: Bob
Re: RAW Regulator Seat - Peek or Not?
«
Reply #1 on:
June 10, 2021, 09:54:46 PM »
I would be surprised if they used PEEK, it's pretty hard for use when the sealing force is only a few lbs. at best....
Bob
Logged
Coalmont, BC, Canada
🇺🇦
Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since! 🇺🇦
Airsenal:
1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 2260 PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 HPA (37 FPE), 2560 HPA (52 FPE), XS-60c HPA in .30 cal (90 FPE), .22 cal QB79 HPA, Disco Doubles in .22, .25 & .30 cal, "Hayabusa" Custom PCP Project (Mk.I is .22 & .25 cal regulated; Mk.II is .224, .257, 7mm, .308 & .357; Mk.III is .410 shotgun and .458 cal), .257 "Monocoque" Benchrest PCP, .172/6mm Regulated PCP and .224/.257 Unregulated, Three regulated BRods in .25 cal (70 FPE), .30 cal (100 FPE) & .35 cal (145 FPE), .257 Condor (180 FPE).
SpiralGroove
Ruminating Perfectionist !!!
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 7200
>The gun's gotta look good and shoot straight ->
Real Name: Kirk
Re: RAW Regulator Seat - Peek or Not?
«
Reply #2 on:
June 10, 2021, 10:21:14 PM »
Bob
, I had assumed it was Peek, but today when I pulled it out ... it looked like white Delrin, the brass, seat nipple put a decent
indent
in it.
I polished both seats, but before re-assembling I thought I'd post a few picks. I will change out to my own Peek material if this turns out to be Delrin
.
Logged
Bothell, WA
PCP's:
AR2079A-HPA (.177)
AR2079A-HPA (.22)
BSA R10 (.177) Huma Regulated
RAW HM1000x LRT Camo - (.20) + .177, .22 Barrels
RAW HM1000x LRT RED - (.25)
RAW HM1000x LRT Blue - (.22) + .25 Barrel
QB78 (.177) OEM
Pumper's:
1973 Benjamin Franklin 342
1984 Benjamin Franklin 347
Springer's:
Beeman R9 (.20) - Circa 2019
Beeman R10 (.20) - Circa 1988
HW30S (.177)
HW35E (2) - Blued (.177)
HW35E - Silver (.177)
HW50S - Blued (.177)
HW50S - Silver (.177)
HW80S (.20)
HW80SLK (.177) (.20)
HW95 Hybrid (HW98 stock) (.177)
nervoustrigger
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 8701
The Grin Reaper
Real Name: Jason
Re: RAW Regulator Seat - Peek or Not?
«
Reply #3 on:
June 10, 2021, 10:34:20 PM »
Agreed, it looks more like acetal / Delrin.
I’ve only seen PEEK in tan and black.
Logged
MS
Conduct yourself so that when a man accuses you of something dishonorable, no one will believe him.
Barrel accurizing guide
My youtube channel
QB79 HPA conversion
2240 HPA conversion
Intro to PCP airguns
PikeP
Banned Members
Sharp Shooter
Posts: 627
yes
Real Name: Matt
Re: RAW Regulator Seat - Peek or Not?
«
Reply #4 on:
June 10, 2021, 11:36:52 PM »
Regulator seating forces are very low...
Peak is better suited for applications with very high sealing forces as it resists yielding or deformation much better.
The issue with regulators is...
The sealing force is always static @ its set pressure (within the plenum), but the force its resisting and regulating against, varies, the larger it varies (differential), the higher the differential will be from your set point base base line.
Its just in the design of regulators. They're built to 'resist', regulating air by spring force used in heavy springs or belleville washers. That resistance, by design, resists all pressure below your set point, and once its reached, kisses your delrin seat ever so lightly, and continues kissing it lighter and lighter until just enough pressure creates a seal...this rise will continue as the pressure rises on the high pressure side...
So a regulator may be set at 2,000 psi when the high pressure side is between 2,000 and 2,100, but for every 100 psi beyond that, it starts experiencing 10 psi creep....because it takes he extra 10 psi sealing force, to resist the extra 100 psi on the high pressure side...
Its fundamentally poorly engineered. Tis is all.
Logged
USA, Colorado Arvada
Pacman Pc/Mobile v1.5 (Pcp analysis and calculation manager. The included script is for weather data fetching)
(download / save copy) / work in progress
"Too many spend their time in the black and white, rather than in their grey."
PikeP
Banned Members
Sharp Shooter
Posts: 627
yes
Real Name: Matt
Re: RAW Regulator Seat - Peek or Not?
«
Reply #5 on:
June 10, 2021, 11:48:27 PM »
I postulate in the case of regulator seats, its probably better to use unreinforced nylon...
In fact its what manufacturers probably currently use, certainly mine. Mine is NOT delrin/acetal as it is much too soft, 'flakey' and dull looking personally.
All the white acetal I have is very shiny, basically a glossy finish, and very solid in appearance.
Also note that this is why dual regulators are working in concert in high end guns these days.
Doesn't matter if first reg creeps (which it will), the second reg see's very small variations in pressure change...if your first reg is set at 100bar, it may creep 10% or so up to 110 bar, where as the second reg set at 130 bar, well it will only creep 2% bar @ 132.6 bar thanks to the first regulator reducing the pressure differential...both those numbers are arbitrary and just represent how dual regulators
reduce
creep, in their current design.
«
Last Edit: June 11, 2021, 12:21:52 AM by PikeP
»
Logged
USA, Colorado Arvada
Pacman Pc/Mobile v1.5 (Pcp analysis and calculation manager. The included script is for weather data fetching)
(download / save copy) / work in progress
"Too many spend their time in the black and white, rather than in their grey."
SpiralGroove
Ruminating Perfectionist !!!
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 7200
>The gun's gotta look good and shoot straight ->
Real Name: Kirk
Re: RAW Regulator Seat - Peek or Not?
«
Reply #6 on:
June 13, 2021, 11:30:48 PM »
Hey Guys,
Update on the RAW HM1000xLRT Peek Regulator Seat project
.
First off, want to thank everyone for their input. Upgraded the regulator seat to
Peek
the other day and got her polished as well as the brass, seat nipple. Decided to go with this method in lieu of other suggestions as it was a more familiar strategy. I may turn to other remedy's down the road.
My regulator measured 74.71 mm in length before the change (
Delrin
seat), so I tightened the Belleville washers to the same distance afterwards. With the SSG all the way out (least hammer pressure) the gun
had been
shooting at 925 fps
.
With the Peek seat, a setting of 74.71 mm produced a velocity of 813 fps, with a high of 905 fps at max spring tension
. Thinking the regulator pressure somehow was too low for the hammer - I increased the Belleville pressure giving me a length of 74.50mm. However, the higher regulator set-point gave me a velocity of 804 fps with the SSG at it lowest spring tension
.
Pulled the regulator again and loosened the regulator nut (lowering set-point) until it's length was 74.90 mm.
At the lower set-point, the gun shot at 904 fps at it's lowest spring tension (SSG) setting
. Further, the range of velocities increased from 904 fps to 1013 fps
.
So much like changing the valve poppet from Delrin to Peek, the Peek regulator seat produced more power
at all settings and a wider range of velocities. I increased the SSG tension so I'm getting about 970 fps or about 96/97% of the max setting - on the knee of the curve. So far ES differential on the first shot has been reduced, but I need to shoot a few strings later on tonight.
Thanks everyone for their help ...
especially
Motorhead
.
«
Last Edit: June 13, 2021, 11:32:59 PM by SpiralGroove
»
Logged
Bothell, WA
PCP's:
AR2079A-HPA (.177)
AR2079A-HPA (.22)
BSA R10 (.177) Huma Regulated
RAW HM1000x LRT Camo - (.20) + .177, .22 Barrels
RAW HM1000x LRT RED - (.25)
RAW HM1000x LRT Blue - (.22) + .25 Barrel
QB78 (.177) OEM
Pumper's:
1973 Benjamin Franklin 342
1984 Benjamin Franklin 347
Springer's:
Beeman R9 (.20) - Circa 2019
Beeman R10 (.20) - Circa 1988
HW30S (.177)
HW35E (2) - Blued (.177)
HW35E - Silver (.177)
HW50S - Blued (.177)
HW50S - Silver (.177)
HW80S (.20)
HW80SLK (.177) (.20)
HW95 Hybrid (HW98 stock) (.177)
ranchibi
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 9394
yes
Real Name: Randall
Re: RAW Regulator Seat - Peek or Not?
«
Reply #7 on:
June 14, 2021, 12:48:39 AM »
Kirk, nice work and it has paid off! Enjoy shooting 👍.
Logged
U.S. CA
JSAR Raptor .22 TJ slug barrel Discovery HD 5-20X50 SFIR FFP
RAW HM1000x LRT Chassis .22 Athlon Ares BTR 2.5-15x50 FFP MOA APLR3 Gen2
Beeman P17
PRod Discovery HD 4-20x50 FFP SFIR
SpiralGroove
Ruminating Perfectionist !!!
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 7200
>The gun's gotta look good and shoot straight ->
Real Name: Kirk
Re: RAW Regulator Seat - Peek or Not?
«
Reply #8 on:
June 14, 2021, 01:01:04 PM »
E.S. at MV 957 fps = 12 or
1.25%
.
- Good enough for my shooting
.
Logged
Bothell, WA
PCP's:
AR2079A-HPA (.177)
AR2079A-HPA (.22)
BSA R10 (.177) Huma Regulated
RAW HM1000x LRT Camo - (.20) + .177, .22 Barrels
RAW HM1000x LRT RED - (.25)
RAW HM1000x LRT Blue - (.22) + .25 Barrel
QB78 (.177) OEM
Pumper's:
1973 Benjamin Franklin 342
1984 Benjamin Franklin 347
Springer's:
Beeman R9 (.20) - Circa 2019
Beeman R10 (.20) - Circa 1988
HW30S (.177)
HW35E (2) - Blued (.177)
HW35E - Silver (.177)
HW50S - Blued (.177)
HW50S - Silver (.177)
HW80S (.20)
HW80SLK (.177) (.20)
HW95 Hybrid (HW98 stock) (.177)
CableStop
Marksman
Posts: 367
yes
Real Name: Tom
Re: RAW Regulator Seat - Peek or Not?
«
Reply #9 on:
June 14, 2021, 01:20:17 PM »
I'm unsure how changing the regulator seat for PEEK would increase performance? In a poppet the harder material compresses less and takes less energy to open. A regulator is only there to limit the air pressure allowed into the plenum, I don't see how the same volume and pressure of air would behave differently. The regulator seat doesn't have anything to do with the actual firing of the gun like a poppet does.
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NH
nervoustrigger
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 8701
The Grin Reaper
Real Name: Jason
Re: RAW Regulator Seat - Peek or Not?
«
Reply #10 on:
June 14, 2021, 01:34:35 PM »
That’s right, the seat material will not increase or decrease power. The setpoint determines it. All it influences is the repeatability of the setpoint and longevity (how long before it needs servicing).
Logged
MS
Conduct yourself so that when a man accuses you of something dishonorable, no one will believe him.
Barrel accurizing guide
My youtube channel
QB79 HPA conversion
2240 HPA conversion
Intro to PCP airguns
Motorhead
Field Target Shooter .... Stand em up Shoot em down
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 17762
2019 GTA Hall Of Fame Recipient
Real Name: Scott
Re: RAW Regulator Seat - Peek or Not?
«
Reply #11 on:
June 14, 2021, 02:34:39 PM »
Your welcome ..
Power increase doubtful ..... only if at a different set point
Consistency improvement in
SPADES !!!
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Northern California ... Old Hangtown
**
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SpiralGroove
Ruminating Perfectionist !!!
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 7200
>The gun's gotta look good and shoot straight ->
Real Name: Kirk
Re: RAW Regulator Seat - Peek or Not?
«
Reply #12 on:
June 14, 2021, 02:39:03 PM »
Well Guys,
All I know is the regulator's set-point adjustments were changed when I converted to Peek (for whatever reason). My SSG's dynamic range is also broader - maybe this is a coincidence - but I like it
.
My ES is lower and accuracy is
still
consistently -> Excellent
.
We'll see how things shake out over time ---
Logged
Bothell, WA
PCP's:
AR2079A-HPA (.177)
AR2079A-HPA (.22)
BSA R10 (.177) Huma Regulated
RAW HM1000x LRT Camo - (.20) + .177, .22 Barrels
RAW HM1000x LRT RED - (.25)
RAW HM1000x LRT Blue - (.22) + .25 Barrel
QB78 (.177) OEM
Pumper's:
1973 Benjamin Franklin 342
1984 Benjamin Franklin 347
Springer's:
Beeman R9 (.20) - Circa 2019
Beeman R10 (.20) - Circa 1988
HW30S (.177)
HW35E (2) - Blued (.177)
HW35E - Silver (.177)
HW50S - Blued (.177)
HW50S - Silver (.177)
HW80S (.20)
HW80SLK (.177) (.20)
HW95 Hybrid (HW98 stock) (.177)
rsterne
Member 2000+fps Club
Bob and Lloyd
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 26958
GTA Forums Person of the Year 2017
Real Name: Bob
Re: RAW Regulator Seat - Peek or Not?
«
Reply #13 on:
June 14, 2021, 05:37:14 PM »
Power increase is likely due to a setpoint pressure increase....
Bob
Logged
Coalmont, BC, Canada
🇺🇦
Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since! 🇺🇦
Airsenal:
1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 2260 PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 HPA (37 FPE), 2560 HPA (52 FPE), XS-60c HPA in .30 cal (90 FPE), .22 cal QB79 HPA, Disco Doubles in .22, .25 & .30 cal, "Hayabusa" Custom PCP Project (Mk.I is .22 & .25 cal regulated; Mk.II is .224, .257, 7mm, .308 & .357; Mk.III is .410 shotgun and .458 cal), .257 "Monocoque" Benchrest PCP, .172/6mm Regulated PCP and .224/.257 Unregulated, Three regulated BRods in .25 cal (70 FPE), .30 cal (100 FPE) & .35 cal (145 FPE), .257 Condor (180 FPE).
SpiralGroove
Ruminating Perfectionist !!!
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 7200
>The gun's gotta look good and shoot straight ->
Real Name: Kirk
Re: RAW Regulator Seat - Peek or Not?
«
Reply #14 on:
June 14, 2021, 06:42:01 PM »
Quote from: rsterne on June 14, 2021, 05:37:14 PM
Power increase is likely due to a setpoint pressure increase....
Bob
Yes, the regulator's previous set-point
length
generated a higher pressure after the seat change.
Pressure had to be taken off the Belleville washer stack, reducing the regulator's set-point.
«
Last Edit: June 14, 2021, 06:44:45 PM by SpiralGroove
»
Logged
Bothell, WA
PCP's:
AR2079A-HPA (.177)
AR2079A-HPA (.22)
BSA R10 (.177) Huma Regulated
RAW HM1000x LRT Camo - (.20) + .177, .22 Barrels
RAW HM1000x LRT RED - (.25)
RAW HM1000x LRT Blue - (.22) + .25 Barrel
QB78 (.177) OEM
Pumper's:
1973 Benjamin Franklin 342
1984 Benjamin Franklin 347
Springer's:
Beeman R9 (.20) - Circa 2019
Beeman R10 (.20) - Circa 1988
HW30S (.177)
HW35E (2) - Blued (.177)
HW35E - Silver (.177)
HW50S - Blued (.177)
HW50S - Silver (.177)
HW80S (.20)
HW80SLK (.177) (.20)
HW95 Hybrid (HW98 stock) (.177)
mubhaur
Plinker
Posts: 122
yes
Re: RAW Regulator Seat - Peek or Not?
«
Reply #15 on:
June 15, 2021, 12:18:48 PM »
I have also experienced higher fps with peek poppet.
Peek regulator seat only increases consistency and durability in my thinking.
Regards,
Umair Bhaur
Logged
karachi
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RAW Regulator Seat - Peek or Not?