Glad we can agree to disagree on most all points above, but in your defense why even bother looking for a leak with water or balloons at all. Just completely disassemble and replace all o rings/seals in the gun without testing and be done. 0 Pros and Cons. BD
Quote from: PikeP on June 11, 2021, 12:09:51 PMWater dunkPros:-Finds leak instantly-Tests all areas simultaneously with one step...can't get more efficient that thatCons:-None, absolutely, none.Balloon test Pros: -None, absolutely noneCons: -Takes a long time to detect-Can take many balloons, and in some cases, you cannot arrange a balloon around a potential leak candidate...Pressure vessels are tested hydrostatically, which in many of said tests, they fill the vessel with water, which is not compressible, which it is then loaded into a test jacket, which is a sealed container of water (water inside your vessel and outside) This causes the vessel to expand within the test jacket, which results in water being forced out into a glass tube that measures the total expansion. Once the total expansion is recorded, the vessel is depressurized and shrinks to its approximate original size. As the vessel deflates, water flows back into the test jacket.Sometimes people will argue against the most simplest, and brilliant solutions in favor of a balloon. "Oh heavens no, I will not fly in that tin can with wings, I will stay traveling in hot air balloons" - said no one everGlad we can agree to disagree on most all points above, but in your defense why even bother looking for a leak with water or balloons at all. Just completely disassemble and replace all o rings/seals in the gun without testing and be done. 0 Pros and Cons. BD
Water dunkPros:-Finds leak instantly-Tests all areas simultaneously with one step...can't get more efficient that thatCons:-None, absolutely, none.Balloon test Pros: -None, absolutely noneCons: -Takes a long time to detect-Can take many balloons, and in some cases, you cannot arrange a balloon around a potential leak candidate...Pressure vessels are tested hydrostatically, which in many of said tests, they fill the vessel with water, which is not compressible, which it is then loaded into a test jacket, which is a sealed container of water (water inside your vessel and outside) This causes the vessel to expand within the test jacket, which results in water being forced out into a glass tube that measures the total expansion. Once the total expansion is recorded, the vessel is depressurized and shrinks to its approximate original size. As the vessel deflates, water flows back into the test jacket.Sometimes people will argue against the most simplest, and brilliant solutions in favor of a balloon. "Oh heavens no, I will not fly in that tin can with wings, I will stay traveling in hot air balloons" - said no one ever
Quote from: buldawg76 on June 12, 2021, 01:52:32 AMQuote from: PikeP on June 11, 2021, 12:09:51 PMWater dunkPros:-Finds leak instantly-Tests all areas simultaneously with one step...can't get more efficient that thatCons:-None, absolutely, none.Balloon test Pros: -None, absolutely noneCons: -Takes a long time to detect-Can take many balloons, and in some cases, you cannot arrange a balloon around a potential leak candidate...Pressure vessels are tested hydrostatically, which in many of said tests, they fill the vessel with water, which is not compressible, which it is then loaded into a test jacket, which is a sealed container of water (water inside your vessel and outside) This causes the vessel to expand within the test jacket, which results in water being forced out into a glass tube that measures the total expansion. Once the total expansion is recorded, the vessel is depressurized and shrinks to its approximate original size. As the vessel deflates, water flows back into the test jacket.Sometimes people will argue against the most simplest, and brilliant solutions in favor of a balloon. "Oh heavens no, I will not fly in that tin can with wings, I will stay traveling in hot air balloons" - said no one everGlad we can agree to disagree on most all points above, but in your defense why even bother looking for a leak with water or balloons at all. Just completely disassemble and replace all o rings/seals in the gun without testing and be done. 0 Pros and Cons. BDThe reason I don't do that, is because it may not always be a simple oring failure. Could be the gauge leaking through the face, a deformed exhaust valve, or a piece of grit embedded in an oring sealing surface. All of which I've seen, and all of which a full seal replacement wouldn't have fixed. But a leak check would have easily revealed. It's the same as putting a new transmission in a modern car because it shifted funny, only to find out that it's the PCM that controls the shifts has crapped out.You "changed everything" but still didn't fix the issue. Typical mechanics mistake I've seen more than once. Who foots the bill then? In my line of work, there's millions of dollars and people's lives on the line. I gotta be real sure of a diagnosis before I order parts or start work. Different strokes I guess.
Quote from: buldawg76 on June 12, 2021, 01:52:32 AMGlad we can agree to disagree on most all points above, but in your defense why even bother looking for a leak with water or balloons at all. Just completely disassemble and replace all o rings/seals in the gun without testing and be done. 0 Pros and Cons. BDTrue! But sometimes if fun and challenging to find small leaks. Like a Treasure Hunt.
Assumed we were all DIY fixers…..if a guy had one or two Crosman PCP’s, had not modified them, is possible to just keep sending it back and forth . Might take more than one trip back and forth to get fixed, but assume sooner or later Crosman could get it sealed.That’s really not to my liking. Have sent new guns back, but generally if it shows up with out a problem. DO think an air gun maker /dealer SHOULD deliver a functioning/leak free rife (consider it an ethical responsibility on their part)….and I will ship one back if it’s not….but once it is working right, it’s up to me to keep it working right.New PCP shooters that were use to springers seem to be the “hurt” when their PCP leaks after a year or two. It’s part of the PCP experience; contained compressed air WANTS to leak (its that universal entropy thing...nature prefers things to achieve energy even).Consider that even when you find a leak that “bubbles”….it’s just a clue. Could be a bad o-ring, could be trapped grit, could be a scored line where the grit blew though, could be an error in assembly, could be a manufacturing fault.99 % of the time, it’s the o-ring or valve stem poppet.A kind of personal crusade….not all rust is fill air rust. IF you see rust/corrosion, consider where it is.Just a generic Crosman type PCP:I do hunt...and sometimes I get caught in the rain….so when I see a bit of rust/corrosion at any of those 3 spots, DO NOT assume it is from the air that filled the rifle. It’s outside air getting in.DSCN3042 by Robert Dean, on FlickrA. everything from the end cap down to the sealing o-ring of that fill cap is not pressurized. Used in the rain, moisture can wick in down the treads and collect at that sealing o-ring….and rust.B. gauge block has o-rings at each end and a hole though the tube for the gauge to pass though. It’s not pressurized and open to the outside air. Whatever happens to the middle of the gauge block is not caused by fill air.C. from the valve body o-ring back to the end cap (where the striker runs) is not fill pressurized. USUALLY we keep that area lubed, but if any rust does show up...it’s not from the air that filled the rifle.
That big of chunk probably came off during the removal as it passed the gauge hole. That would have been a massive leak which you would have heard. While the gauge hole is a problem on most crosman's, including the Fortitude, and needs special attention, as mentioned, the stock lug screw hole is a bigger issue. It can be deburred with small ball hone (be careful, not much threads) and use an allen key or drill shank to press on the O-ring as it goes past. Even doing so, with plenty of grease, it may take a few trys.
Quote from: FuzzyGrub on June 15, 2021, 11:53:45 AMThat big of chunk probably came off during the removal as it passed the gauge hole. That would have been a massive leak which you would have heard. While the gauge hole is a problem on most crosman's, including the Fortitude, and needs special attention, as mentioned, the stock lug screw hole is a bigger issue. It can be deburred with small ball hone (be careful, not much threads) and use an allen key or drill shank to press on the O-ring as it goes past. Even doing so, with plenty of grease, it may take a few trys. John, I found a burr in the gauge hole that I must have made working on the gun, probably while rotating the valve or reg into proper alignment. GRRRR. The bur scratched the valve body and reg body. I had previously deburred all of the holes starting with a plumber's deburring tool then, a Dremel with a fine sanding drum, rolled wet-dry paper and tested with a wood toothpick for sharp edges or hooks. So I did the same to remove the new burr.I use a long ratchet socket that fits perfectly in the gauge hole, first as a stop when pushing up the air tube, then as a tool to press down the o-ring as it passes by. Sort of like the Crosman jig. I also use the lug screw, with it just barely showing proud, to fill its hole. The screw head is faired and smooth. AND.... of course, silicone grease on all the o-rings and hole edges. So the gun lost 150 PSI over 12 hours from a fresh fill from a hand pump. I'm not sure if it is another leak or Charles's law.