Finding Slow Leaks?
Select Gate
READ GTA FORUM RULES BEFORE POSTING
GTA Forum Help Desk
GTA Announcement Gate
Dealer Area
GRIP
AirgunWeb Airgun Videos
Airgun Repository of Knowledge
Vendors and Vendor Videos
AirGun Expo 2021
Airgun Expo 2022
Contests and Giveaways!!!
Welcome New Members
In Memoriam
GTA Contributing Members
Shot Show Videos
Hajimoto Productions
Airgun Detectives
Air Gun Gate
BB Guns and Such
"Bob and Lloyds Workshop"
American/U.S. Air Gun Gates
European/Asian Air Gun Gates
PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside"
Air Archery
Vintage Air Gun Gate
Air Guns And Related Accessories Review Gates
Hunting Gate
Machine Shop Talk & AG Parts Machining
3D printing and files
Buyer's, Seller's & Trader's Comments
Bargain Gate
Back Room
Target Shooting Discussion Gate
Target Match Rules
Shooting Match Gates
Field Target Gates
The Long Range Club
100 Yard Match
Discussions By States
Welcome,
Guest
. Please
login
or
register
.
Did you miss your
activation email
?
1 Hour
1 Day
1 Week
1 Month
Forever
Login with username, password and session length
Home
About
Help
Old GTA
Gallery
Search
Stats
Login
Register
Advertise Here
GTA
»
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General
»
PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside"
»
Finding Slow Leaks?
« previous
next »
Print
Pages: [
1
]
2
3
Go Down
Share This!
Author
Topic: Finding Slow Leaks? (Read 3206 times))
mwgm2020
Sharp Shooter
Posts: 643
yes
Real Name: Stephen
Finding Slow Leaks?
«
on:
June 07, 2021, 05:49:59 PM »
I’m looking for tips and suggestions finding a slow leak in the fortitude. It is losing 600 PSI over 8 hours. This is round two after rebuilding last night.
Logged
USA, Southwestern CT
Stephen,
Benjamin Fortitude Gen 2 .22 Cal - UTG "Hunter" 3-9X40-AO-IR
Kral Arms Puncher Mega Synthetic .177 Cal - Hawke 30 Sidewinder 8-32 x 52
Beeman P-17 x 2
Umarex Smith & Wesson M&P BB
dmeguy
Sharp Shooter
Posts: 541
Aim small!
Real Name: Garry
Re: Finding Slow Leaks?
«
Reply #1 on:
June 07, 2021, 06:19:02 PM »
Balloons. I start by removing the shroud and put a balloon over the barrel. Squeeze all of the air out and let it sit. If you come back later and the balloon has air in it, you know the poppet is leaking. If that checks out. Take the breech, stock and trigger assemblies off and stretch a balloon over each end and squeeze the air out. You'll need to make sure and use one that will reach up past the gauge port on the back end.
Logged
Arkansas City, KS
GAMO CFX .177 | Benjamin Trail NP AW .22 | Crosman 1322 | The Reverend - Cothran Powered Reverse Bottle .30 | Benjamin Discovery .177 | Powermaster 66 | Pumpmaster 760 | Bottled 2250 BNM .22 HPA | Daisy 880 | P17 | AT-44 .177 | .25 Gen 1 Marauder
csitas
Marksman
Posts: 331
yes
Real Name: Chuck
Re: Finding Slow Leaks?
«
Reply #2 on:
June 07, 2021, 06:35:11 PM »
Put it in your bath tub . Water won't kill it. Hit it with an air hose afterward.
Logged
Tomah Wiscinsin USA
mwgm2020
Sharp Shooter
Posts: 643
yes
Real Name: Stephen
Re: Finding Slow Leaks?
«
Reply #3 on:
June 08, 2021, 01:55:04 AM »
The ballon test sounds good. The water test makes me nervous that the gun will rust. Also, I don't have an air compressor to blow out the water.
Logged
USA, Southwestern CT
Stephen,
Benjamin Fortitude Gen 2 .22 Cal - UTG "Hunter" 3-9X40-AO-IR
Kral Arms Puncher Mega Synthetic .177 Cal - Hawke 30 Sidewinder 8-32 x 52
Beeman P-17 x 2
Umarex Smith & Wesson M&P BB
Michael Loar
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 4114
yes
Real Name: Mike
Re: Finding Slow Leaks?
«
Reply #4 on:
June 08, 2021, 02:03:03 AM »
Wrap a rubber band around the end of the balloons to keep the air from slowly seeping past ends. I usually start with one on the barrel and one over the fill end of air tube at same time to eliminate poppet or fill end. If neither balloon fills up then its time to disassemble farther to test valve end of air tube.
BD
Logged
Oxford, Alabama
Benjamin Marauder 177 in Boyds blaster stock
Benjamin Marauder25 Wicked Air rifles bottled
Hatsan 22 AT 44S10 long
FWB 124 177 Tuned
FWB 300s Match L 177 Tuned
FWB 300s Match Junior 177 Tuned
Diana 48 177 Vortek Tuned
Xisisco 60C PCP Tuned 22
Xisisco 60C PCP 177 tuned LW barrel
Benjamin Titan NP 22 Tuned GRT trigger
Crosman Titan GP 22 Tuned GRT trigger
Crosman Venom 177 Tuned GRT trigger
Taipan Mutant Standard 22, BSA FFP 4x14x44 scope
TX200 , TL 22mm kit 177
B-40, TL 22mm kit 177
B50 in 51 stock Tuned .177
CH2009 challenger 177
1720T carbine regulated 177
Prod carbine with AR butt stock 22
CZ200 regulated 177
C9 silver streak 20 rocker safety
Crosman 1400 X 2 177 and 22
B28 Mike Melick tuned 25
Hatsan flash 25
Daisy 853 X 5 177
B3-2 177
Benji Maximus 177 Mrod trigger
QB 78/79 177 and 22 HPA bottled
HW Blue Laminate 97 .22cal tuned
1966 Diana model 60 Tyro resealed and tuned
Bikes, Guns and Family is all I need for a good day
jimbo
Expert
Posts: 1264
yes
Real Name: Jim
Re: Finding Slow Leaks?
«
Reply #5 on:
June 08, 2021, 09:11:28 AM »
Yeah, no way would I drown it in the bath tub.
Logged
USA, IN, Highland
FuzzyGrub
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 7135
yes
Real Name: John
Re: Finding Slow Leaks?
«
Reply #6 on:
June 08, 2021, 09:23:31 AM »
Most crosmans, including the Fortitude can be stripped down to just the airtube. A warm water dunk in the bath tub has found many a slow leak for me, where other methods proved futile. Water will not get inside tube unless pressure is on zero. Do a full tear down and cleaning, regardless of where leak is. The tube between the gauge block O-rings especially.
Logged
Rural New York
1701P, 2201P, & 2501 Pistols,
1720T/Prod/Fortitude based( 7 ), Mrods( 5 ), SAM,
Sumatra 25 carbine, 357 Bulldog, Walther CP88 ( 2 ),
Akelas 22 & 25,
ATI Nova Liberty Wood 177 & 22,
P1, A4-P, & DPMS Full-Auto Fun
csitas
Marksman
Posts: 331
yes
Real Name: Chuck
Re: Finding Slow Leaks?
«
Reply #7 on:
June 08, 2021, 10:06:13 AM »
I heard someone mention rust. If that's so, someone didn't do the proper job.
Logged
Tomah Wiscinsin USA
nervoustrigger
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 8700
The Grin Reaper
Real Name: Jason
Re: Finding Slow Leaks?
«
Reply #8 on:
June 08, 2021, 10:31:18 AM »
Submersion is not my first choice but I have resorted to it a few times to find slow leaks or leaks from unusual places. One example was a gauge with an internal leak that had eluded me. It’s also handy for checking regulated bottles…dunk the bonnet in a glass and have confidence it isn’t leaking from any of at least 7 different possible locations.
Logged
MS
Conduct yourself so that when a man accuses you of something dishonorable, no one will believe him.
Barrel accurizing guide
My youtube channel
QB79 HPA conversion
2240 HPA conversion
Intro to PCP airguns
Hawkeye51
Sharp Shooter
Posts: 614
Real Name: Mike
Re: Finding Slow Leaks?
«
Reply #9 on:
June 08, 2021, 10:43:24 AM »
If you do have to dunk, you can use a hair dryer if you don't have a compressor. Some leaks are really hard to find.
Logged
Springfield, Missouri
Notos 'stock'
1701p Silhouette FFT 8.6 @ 625 fps
Hy-Score 815 RWS 7.0 @ 450 fps
PP 750 in 22 cal 15.4gr. Daisy HP @ 750 fps
P-17s 10"barrel TKO 7.0gr @ 475 fps
2240 w/adapter & screw on BuckRail
Daisy 717 stock config.
Crosman Summit Ranger 22 (syn) Pinty 3x9x32 tactical A.O.
Nova Freedom 22
Nova 2 Liberty 22 (wood) 14 gr cr-domed @ 940 fps
Nova 1 Liberty 22 (wood) 21 gr cuda match @ 890 fps
Diana 34 , T01 -.177 (wood) Voetec kit 875 fps
2400 KT .177 ( HPA) 20 shots @ 900 fps Thanks to GTA
BSA r10, mk2 22 (gorgeous walnut)
P-ROD 750 fps
Flash Pup 22 (wood)
Greg_E
Expert
Posts: 1380
yes
Real Name: Greg
Re: Finding Slow Leaks?
«
Reply #10 on:
June 08, 2021, 10:55:43 AM »
I'd spray areas with soapy water and leave the dunking for last resort. You could wipe down with WD-40 to help remove the water when you are done and then wipe with Ballistol to leave a film to protect the metal.
I'd check the fill probe area first, might be able to solve it with a little silicone oil if the seal is leaking.
Logged
USA, NY, Syracuse
https://odysee.com/@JAAG:c
kbstingwing
Former Rat Lobotomizer now Squirrel Lobotomizer
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 4276
yes
Real Name: Kevin (Bushido)
Re: Finding Slow Leaks?
«
Reply #11 on:
June 08, 2021, 04:40:52 PM »
I use an ultrasonic leak detector, you can get cheap ones that work good on Ebay or Amazon, mine is a Professional one for A/C work, it picks up friction noise from the leaking area.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l2632&_nkw=ultrasonic+leak+detector&_sacat=42909
Logged
USA, Daingerfield Texas
Varmints Beware, you'll be "Lucky if I'm out of Air"
Beeman HW100 T FSB .20
Weihrauch HW 100 Bullpup .22
Weihrauch HW 100 TK .22
Brocock Bantam MK1 .25
AGT Uragan Standard .25
RTI Priest 2 Cerakote .30/.177 converted to Prophet 2
AirForce Texan .45
Shin Sung Fire 9mm
Benjamin Marauder Pistol .22
Benjamin Marauder Gen 2 .22 w/ LW barrel by JG
Umarex Hammer .50 Cal
Umarex Notos Carbine 500/4500 Carbon Bottle .22
Umarex Gauntlet 500/4500 .25 Tactical Chassis gun
Umarex Gauntlet 500/4500 .22 Tactical Chassis gun
Hatsan Flashpup synthetic .22 side lever x 1
Sheridan Blue streak .20 Steroided
Crosman Phantom co2 pistol BB
Nardi USA Atlantic GAS 4500 Air compressor
GX CS2 4500 psi PCP compressor
Spritech VE3 PCP compressor
Arken Zulus HD 5-20X LRF
ATN X-Sight 4k 3-14x w/ABL1000
ATN X-Sight ll 3-14x w/ABL1000
Pard NV008
Pard NV007S
Pard NV007V
AGN TM180 Thermal Monocular
Bushido.....
csitas
Marksman
Posts: 331
yes
Real Name: Chuck
Re: Finding Slow Leaks?
«
Reply #12 on:
June 08, 2021, 05:42:49 PM »
Be careful with the soapy water. Iv'e seen blueing problems from it.
Logged
Tomah Wiscinsin USA
Michael Loar
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 4114
yes
Real Name: Mike
Re: Finding Slow Leaks?
«
Reply #13 on:
June 09, 2021, 02:18:26 AM »
I have never had a problem finding even the slowest of leaks with balloons. I just start on the barrel and fill end of tubes and if the barrel balloon fills it has to be from the poppet leaking. If fill end of tube fills balloon I then move balloon to just end of fill adapter to check foster fitting thread area, if it still fills then I move it to just the foster fitting to eliminate the threads. Using rubber bands on the balloon ends to insure a air tight seal.
Its not a fast process so of you are not good at patience go for the water immersion, I am one that will never put my gun parts under water for any reason on purpose.
JMHO.
BD
Logged
Oxford, Alabama
Benjamin Marauder 177 in Boyds blaster stock
Benjamin Marauder25 Wicked Air rifles bottled
Hatsan 22 AT 44S10 long
FWB 124 177 Tuned
FWB 300s Match L 177 Tuned
FWB 300s Match Junior 177 Tuned
Diana 48 177 Vortek Tuned
Xisisco 60C PCP Tuned 22
Xisisco 60C PCP 177 tuned LW barrel
Benjamin Titan NP 22 Tuned GRT trigger
Crosman Titan GP 22 Tuned GRT trigger
Crosman Venom 177 Tuned GRT trigger
Taipan Mutant Standard 22, BSA FFP 4x14x44 scope
TX200 , TL 22mm kit 177
B-40, TL 22mm kit 177
B50 in 51 stock Tuned .177
CH2009 challenger 177
1720T carbine regulated 177
Prod carbine with AR butt stock 22
CZ200 regulated 177
C9 silver streak 20 rocker safety
Crosman 1400 X 2 177 and 22
B28 Mike Melick tuned 25
Hatsan flash 25
Daisy 853 X 5 177
B3-2 177
Benji Maximus 177 Mrod trigger
QB 78/79 177 and 22 HPA bottled
HW Blue Laminate 97 .22cal tuned
1966 Diana model 60 Tyro resealed and tuned
Bikes, Guns and Family is all I need for a good day
FuzzyGrub
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 7135
yes
Real Name: John
Re: Finding Slow Leaks?
«
Reply #14 on:
June 09, 2021, 09:00:28 AM »
Doing the balloon test on the Fortitude, still leaves 5 O-rings not counting gauge. And this is the problem area on the Fortitude. The trigger assy screw hole is in the path of the valve and regulator O-rings, which seems to always get a burr on it. These O-rings are also thin -016, easy to compromise. If it passes the two balloon tests and gauge is known good, can just go in and replace them all. You can't do just one, anyway. Buy plenty of spare -016 and -113, because it will most likely take a couple of installs to get it leak free.
FWIW: The G2 Fortitude's have a one piece fill assy. The nipple is machined into the fitting. While it is probably less prone to leaks, to get to the O-ring requires removing the sintered filter. I have never had a problem with the nipple interface leaking on the two part ones.
Logged
Rural New York
1701P, 2201P, & 2501 Pistols,
1720T/Prod/Fortitude based( 7 ), Mrods( 5 ), SAM,
Sumatra 25 carbine, 357 Bulldog, Walther CP88 ( 2 ),
Akelas 22 & 25,
ATI Nova Liberty Wood 177 & 22,
P1, A4-P, & DPMS Full-Auto Fun
Ribbonstone
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 12030
Re: Finding Slow Leaks?
«
Reply #15 on:
June 09, 2021, 11:29:25 AM »
Few things to keep in mind about leak hunting.
1. There is no rule that there is just ONE leak. We want it to be easy. Resist and keep checking until you are sure that’s the only one.
2. Only the section of the air gun that actually holds air can be the source of a storage leak. Not the breech, barrel, LDC, shroud, trigger, striker system, stock….only concerned with the air storage area.
3. If it’s leaking, you’ll have to at least partly take it apart to fix it. Partially taking it apart to test isn’t a total waste of effort.
4. Likely all the o-rings went into the rifle at the same time. If one gives up, might be that others are just as stressed.
5. Can create new leaks on reassembly. Old o-rings that are still sealing don’t like being disturbed and we can nick a new o-ring on reassembly. Retest everything after you think you got it fixed.
6. Every PCP ever made will sooner or later leak. Best any one can say is “not yet”...give it time.
Some problems.
IF the shroud is vented, then the balloon test isn’t going to help until you cover up the shroud vent.
There is a “sneaky leak” that doesn’t show up well. If the seal between the valve body and the air tube. Will get leaks around the valve and out towards the striker….just not going to find it from the outside.
DSCN2550
by
Robert Dean
, on Flickr
Locations like the fill end cap, can have multiple places to leak right next to each other. A rifle using a gauge in the middle of the air tube (a gauge block inside) has 3 causes that can show bubbles within ¼” of each other.
473d4248-639a-497f-80d1-c1ccb50399b7
by
Robert Dean
, on Flickr
DSCN0173
by
Robert Dean
, on Flickr
Logged
Louisiana
limbshaker
Sharp Shooter
Posts: 822
yes
Real Name: Chase
Re: Finding Slow Leaks?
«
Reply #16 on:
June 09, 2021, 11:39:22 AM »
600psi over 8 hours?
More trouble than it's worth chasing that.
I wouldn't bother with anything other than soapy water on a q-tip, or dunking it.
I take much more expensive rifles apart and dunk the air holding parts. This way also reveals if there is more than one leak.
If it's a leak that small, I'd look at any threaded connections and cheap gauges, fill check valves, and firing valve in that order.
Logged
Decatur, AL
A few junky old spring powered Weihrauchs, couple of precharged Weihrauchs, a couple beat up old FWBs, a smoothbore Krico, an electric Daystate and an Ataman pistol..And drawers full of pieces of all of the above...
Ribbonstone
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 12030
Re: Finding Slow Leaks?
«
Reply #17 on:
June 09, 2021, 12:08:42 PM »
Do often do a dunk test.
Knowing I gotta take it apart to fix it...will take it mostly apart to dunk it. Breech, barrel, stock, trigger (if it is a unit that can be removed), rear end cap, striker assembly all off. All I want is the part that holds air in storage.
Just as buck-naked an air tube as I can make it with the valve as securely retained as ever.
2” of warm/hot water (hot...but able to keep your hands in it) in the bathtub, and lay it down and watch.
Problems:
1. Have to degas….so will likely have to put back in the sttiker and rear end cap to run a degassing tool.
2. Not all gauge covers are really waterproof….can end up with foggy gauges.
3. The area between the o-rings on a gauge block is NOT pressurized and is open to the outside (the hole where the gauge passes thought the tube). It will trap water and will not want to just let it dribble back out.
4. Do not totally reassemble after the fix...leave it as a naked tube and dunk it a 2nd time to be sure.
Logged
Louisiana
Doug Wall
Expert
Posts: 1655
yes
Re: Finding Slow Leaks?
«
Reply #18 on:
June 09, 2021, 06:33:45 PM »
Says it's non-corrosive.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/BrassCraft-2-oz-Gas-Leak-Detection-Solution-PSC1094-L/205204429
Logged
Hilton, NY
Ribbonstone
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 12030
Re: Finding Slow Leaks?
«
Reply #19 on:
June 09, 2021, 08:03:46 PM »
I'll buy it-try it....forget the last leak compound's name I used, other than it being purple and sticky as *(&^ if it was left on long enough.
NOT going to use it to diagnose the "sneaky leak"....just too hard to clean it out.
Wonder a bit as the paranoia (at least if you go "bare tube" for leak detection). They're leaks...not su cks....no liquid is not going to leak into pressurized container.
If water based was going to kill them, every rifle I've owned has been out in the rain at one time or another and should have been dead years ago.
Logged
Louisiana
Print
Pages: [
1
]
2
3
Go Up
« previous
next »
GTA
»
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General
»
PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside"
»
Finding Slow Leaks?