GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => European/Asian Air Gun Gates => German AirGun Gate => Topic started by: ER00z on April 30, 2021, 03:20:56 AM
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I've noticed the HW's and their Beeman counterparts have a strong following. I've never shot, held or seen in person a Weihrauch rifle. I've worked my way up to Diana air rifles, but curious as to if Weihrauch's are that good?
All the posts of the HW30's is making me want to buy one, but not sure if that's the way I want to go. The HW50 and HW95 seem very popular also, but seem would overlap with my current airguns in power/use.Then there's the HW35... All of which I have little knowledge on.
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No don't buy 1, leave them for us HW lovers! 8)
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The simple answer to your topic question is:
YES, they are that good.
Whereas you have an honorable collection of airguns, any Weihrauch of equal level (power, action, caliber) will, (or should) impress you.
If you want to introduce yourself into the Weihrauch World, the least expensive route would be the HW30S, (and you will not regret that purchase).
Next step up would be the HW35, which is sort of an equal to the Diana 34, only of much more quality, accuracy and tame. Some will say that the HW50 is the best all-around, but they are usually referring to the more modern HW50's. The HW50S that I own is a pre-80's version, which is entirely different from current offerings, so I cannot give you any advice on that choice.
Basically, buy what you can afford in a Weihrauch for a test model and you will see why we all love them so much.
Do that, and you WILL buy more Weihrauch.
:D
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I guess it's good that I have my fill of underlevers. A few less models to look at. ;D
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I guess it's good that I have my fill of underlevers. A few less models to look at. ;D
As far as underlevers, do not discount the HW77 or 97.
I love my 97KT!!
:D
(https://i.postimg.cc/LXKWxVhP/HW97KTS.jpg)
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I guess it's good that I have my fill of underlevers. A few less models to look at. ;D
Yes ER,
IMO you can't go wrong with either of the HW30S, HW50S, HW35E or HW95.
There has been a lot of raving about the HW30S lately, but I prefer the HW50S, HW35E and HW95L more.
If you want to retire your Hatsan 135, look no further than a HW80S.
I previously owned the all the Hatsan's and the HW77K/HW97 - sold them because of lack of use relative to the above listed guns.
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I never was a believer until I started buying R- series guns, and had been somewhat of a Diana devotee prior, but now that I have a few HW/ Beemans, I "get it". I still love the Diana models, and still buy old ones, having picked up a beautiful little model 27 as recently as the last fun shoot trip, but HW has earned my trust. I still won't buy a new one, but they have a deserved great reputation here.
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HW has earned my trust. I still won't buy a new one, but they have a deserved great reputation here.
Jeez Lizzie -
Are you conflicted or what :P.
Anybody with any mechanical aptitude should buy a new on from Krale - period.
The new ones are made better than the old ones, the older ones I have worked used internals of lower quality.
However, on that note, I don't think the internals have improved much ... and can be greatly improved with a tune -> like the older ones needed too ;).
If you've tuned a Hatsan, then you understand what "Crude" is. Weihrauch vs. Hatsan (Night/Day).
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I only have experience with one other brand of springer. That gun destroyed my interest in spring guns.
Last year I bought a HW30 and 95. Those two are so good that I am having a hard time buying anything, even another HW.
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The HW95L is a high quality Weihrauch air rifle that is reliable and accurate. I installed a Hawke scope on mine.
(https://i.imgur.com/Zssnq5gh.jpg)
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Years ago I had a AA TX200HC. I enjoy the HW50S more than my old TX.
Disclaimer - I don't shoot from a table.
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I'm sold on them. The engineering, fit and finish is much better than any of my powder burners and most airguns I've seen. Are they perfect, no, but they are definitely better than similar comparable priced, currently available airguns. If you're going to buy a new springer you'd be hard pressed to find a better built gun for the same money. The only current company that can rival it is Air Arms but they are more money and apparently difficult to get right now.
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Funny thing, I am on the other side. I have had a desire to try a Diana to see how they compare.
"Grass is always Greener" thing I guess.
But yes, I believe HW's are all they are told to be..... Although I only can afford old used ones. ;)
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Thanks for all the replies. Everyone seems to enjoy their HW's. Most likely I'll buy a HW30 soon. I'll have to see who has what in stock. With the different options available the price varies quite a bit. The only one new for sale I have found in stock (at this time) was at AOA, with the Urban Pro package. We'll see what happens within the next month. Thanks again for the replies.
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HW has earned my trust. I still won't buy a new one, but they have a deserved great reputation here.
Jeez Lizzie -
Are you conflicted or what :P.
Anybody with any mechanical aptitude should buy a new on from Krale - period.
The new ones are made better than the old ones, the older ones I have worked used internals of lower quality.
However, on that note, I don't think the internals have improved much ... and can be greatly improved with a tune -> like the older ones needed too ;).
If you've tuned a Hatsan, then you understand what "Crude" is. Weihrauch vs. Hatsan (Night/Day).
😄 not conflicted at all!
I know what I like!
Lololololol
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Zack you will not regret buying a Hw30. This is as long as you aren't buying it for power. As delivered it's a 7.5 fpe gun when the dust settles. IMO it's the world's best backyard airgun for targets and plinking. That is as long as your back yard isn't more then 30 yards deep. It'll handle pesting birds and bunnies that range too. Squirrels are a little tougher so I don't usually try them past 20 yards unless I'm shooting really well that day. If you want accuracy and pesting past 30 yards go for a Hw50 or 95.
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Funny thing, I am on the other side. I have had a desire to try a Diana to see how they compare.
"Grass is always Greener" thing I guess.
But yes, I believe HW's are all they are told to be..... Although I only can afford old used ones. ;)
I wouldn't trade my Diana 54, 460 or 350's for anything. The rest are very good, but those three models (4 guns) are my favorite by far. They just "click" with me.
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Funny thing, I am on the other side. I have had a desire to try a Diana to see how they compare.
"Grass is always Greener" thing I guess.
But yes, I believe HW's are all they are told to be..... Although I only can afford old used ones. ;)
I wouldn't trade my Diana 54, 460 or 350's for anything. The rest are very good, but those three models (4 guns) are my favorite by far. They just "click" with me.
Never mind my concerns for your pest control. Looks like you're sporting plenty of power for when you need it. Get a Hw30 and it will be an absolute joy to shoot for hours.
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Thanks Zack... In my humble opinion German "Frau" are the tops in springers.
When I search the auction sites I shop in this order...
HW / Weihrauch / Beeman
FWB / Feinwerkbau
RWS / Diana
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HW has earned my trust. I still won't buy a new one, but they have a deserved great reputation here.
Jeez Lizzie -
Are you conflicted or what :P.
Anybody with any mechanical aptitude should buy a new on from Krale - period.
The new ones are made better than the old ones, the older ones I have worked used internals of lower quality.
However, on that note, I don't think the internals have improved much ... and can be greatly improved with a tune -> like the older ones needed too ;).
If you've tuned a Hatsan, then you understand what "Crude" is. Weihrauch vs. Hatsan (Night/Day).
"The new ones are made better than the old ones"
After buying HW breakbarrels for a few decades I completely agree with this statement. I found that my later HW95 has better construction and fit than my earlier Beeman R9s. A couple examples......
Older R9 fixed barrel latch and welded stock mounting tabs vs the "new design bolt on arrangement. If the "old design" stock mounting tab threads get stripped the fix is a threaded insert. To date I've never had the "newer design" sintered metal combination barrel latch/stock mounting bracket threads to fail........
(https://i.imgur.com/qAbAlCf.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/HmbX93E.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/DbZKCWl.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/seYutY8.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/XXQIrq1.jpg)
The older HW break barrels used a cocking shoe that was supported by a thin metal sleeve whereas the newer design cocking shoe slides on the edges of the cocking shoe cutout in the receiver. The newer design is better for adjusting barrel pivot tension since the older design cocking shoe was pressed between the piston liner and receiver tube ID...........
(https://i.imgur.com/pEyIVP4.png) (https://i.imgur.com/u9yH4c4.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/unIoV5O.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/vwUJUVg.png) (https://i.imgur.com/2gbPqo0.jpg)
The older HWs used a "thin edged parachute piston seal" that "sapped power" and tended to make the poi more "temperature sensitive" than the newer "thick edged parachute piston seal"...........
(https://i.imgur.com/SJBTo92.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/7bQ6t3S.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/5CtgioH.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/DCnUGNM.jpg)
The older HW break barrels were pressed into the barrel pivot block, then pinned in place with a dowel. The older HW barrels had a more noticeable constriction in the bore than the newer method of pressing a "splined barrel" into the barrel pivot block without using a separate dowel pin retailer...........
(https://i.imgur.com/b4CEdI7.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/igDoh9n.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/gY7IFh5.jpg)
I found that there were a few older HW springers with receivers that were "excessively honed" toward the transfer port so the piston seal didn't have as much "squish" during the critical "last fraction on an inch". This wasn't an issue with the "rubber parachute seal" but after I started making oring sealed piston caps for my guns I found that if the piston with oring seal could be pushed past the receiver "knockouts" without damage the oring fit wasn't sufficient at the transfer port end. Here are a couple pics of my R9 receiver tube ID vs the later HW95 tube ID. The fit and finish of the HW95 receiver to piston was so good that all I did was polish the piston skirt a bit. Seems that my newer HW springer CNC fabrication was/is more consistent than the older "gorilla with a hone"........
(https://i.imgur.com/xFNkOry.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/wlKDrlE.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/GonaCiX.jpg)
Anywhoo.......while not perfect (HW seems to have some "new design piston seal consistency issues", HW has improved their break barrel construction, fit and finish over the years rather than simply be content with the "status quo". I personally would rather own a "newer version" than those of a couple decades ago! .
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Thanks everyone.
One of my fears of owning too many airguns is If they won't get used. Just got rid of a bunch, well some are being held for a bit. Some pumpers will go into this summers yard sale, a few others (nitro piston) need a home. Nothing vintage or rare. That's partially why I want a HW30, as it won't over lap with my keepers.
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Yes they are excellent rifles and IMO a cut above Diana. I currently own one Diana rifle and have owned more in the past. I currently own an example of almost every HW spring gun offered, in some cases more then one. They are EXCELLENT rifles full stop.
I do think Air Arms makes a tier above HW at least as far as fit and finish go but mechanically IMO the HW97 is a better or at the very least equal to the TX200.
Point is Weihrauch makes a very good product.
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Hopefully all of you are getting a cut from Weihrauch, as the sales you promote are probably more than their own advertising ;D
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Hopefully all of you are getting a cut from Weihrauch, as the sales you promote are probably more than their own advertising ;D
They likely don't even NEED advertising! ;D
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Another fan of HWs, here. In fact, I have a rep around here as an enabler. Rather than rehash all the reasons why I like HWs and why HWs are the core of our springer collection, my advice is to just try one and decided for yourself. Just don't be surprised when you add more. Hard to stop at one.
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I need another HW30S, two is not enough.
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I have two Dianas, and two HWs. All 4 send a pellet down range, and do so accurately. When you look at the detail of the HWs; the screws used, the little details, they're just that cut above the Dianas.
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Funny thing, I am on the other side. I have had a desire to try a Diana to see how they compare.
"Grass is always Greener" thing I guess.
But yes, I believe HW's are all they are told to be..... Although I only can afford old used ones. ;)
;) Much like yourself "Old and Used" ;D ;D
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A highly overrated brand imho.
I have sold mine (2x 97 and 1x 50s).
Still have my Diana's and I much prefer the TX200 too.
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I need another HW30S, two is not enough.
You only own two HW30's??
tsk, tsk.....
A highly overrated brand imho.
I have sold mine (2x 97 and 1x 50s).
Still have my Diana's and I much prefer the TX200 too.
And, as in every thread, there has to be a spoiler in the bunch.
:(
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;) Much like yourself "Old and Used" ;D ;D
Don... "Hello Pot, meet Kettle". ;)
And along those lines....
*cough*
There is a Beeman R-10 (HW-85) in .20 on ebay right now at a decent price (so far)
*cough*
*EDIT*
WHOA! it jumped almost $200 since I saw it at 4:10 this afternoon!
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At least triggerfest is being honest. It's nice to see the good and the bad opinions. If Diana imported more of the 240 and 280 models from their lineup and updated them with the T06 triggers and nicer stocks, then Weihrauch would have a bit more competition. But they didn't, now I'm waiting to see when the next batch of HW30's gets in stock. Looks like I'm not the only one either. Unless I break down and get the HW30 Urban Pro at AOA ($$$). Does the HW30 even need a can or is it for wow factor?
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An Air Arms rifle is nothing to sneeze at, I can see why triggerfest mentioned it.
I stated "German" earlier... guess I should have said "European" because a BSA is also high on my search list.
And just how deep does the Rabbit Hole go? ;)
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At least triggerfest is being honest. It's nice to see the good and the bad opinions. If Diana imported more of the 240 and 280 models from their lineup and updated them with the T06 triggers and nicer stocks, then Weihrauch would have a bit more competition. But they didn't, now I'm waiting to see when the next batch of HW30's gets in stock. Looks like I'm not the only one either. Unless I break down and get the HW30 Urban Pro at AOA ($$$). Does the HW30 even need a can or is it for wow factor?
the Hw30 does not need a can. It sounds like a mouse fart. We have three of them in the house. The pellet hitting a rag stuffed cardboard box is louder than the gun. I shoot the gun while my girlfriend sleeps in the room above. I've stood by while my girlfriend shoots her's and it's loudest when you're the one behind the gun.
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At least triggerfest is being honest. It's nice to see the good and the bad opinions. If Diana imported more of the 240 and 280 models from their lineup and updated them with the T06 triggers and nicer stocks, then Weihrauch would have a bit more competition. But they didn't, now I'm waiting to see when the next batch of HW30's gets in stock. Looks like I'm not the only one either. Unless I break down and get the HW30 Urban Pro at AOA ($$$). Does the HW30 even need a can or is it for wow factor?
Be patient. Krale always has the best price and fastest shipping (like three days or less). They get them in stock about every couple weeks, so again, just be patient.
https://www.krale.shop/us/weihrauch-hw30-s/ (https://www.krale.shop/us/weihrauch-hw30-s/)
Click on the drop down arrow for the caliber of your choice, and then insert your email in the appropriate box for notification of when they are back in stock.
It's worth the wait. You'll likely have it in your hands faster than AoA or Pyramyd.
Don't take the Urban Pro just because it's in stock. The Urban version is not a bad rifle in itself (I own one) but if you want to have all the options (i.e. open sights) wait for the genuine HW30S to come back in stock.
:D
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Funny thing, I am on the other side. I have had a desire to try a Diana to see how they compare.
"Grass is always Greener" thing I guess.
But yes, I believe HW's are all they are told to be..... Although I only can afford old used ones. ;)
;) Much like yourself "Old and Used" ;D ;D
You say that like it's a BAD thing! LOL
:D
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Funny thing, I am on the other side. I have had a desire to try a Diana to see how they compare.
"Grass is always Greener" thing I guess.
But yes, I believe HW's are all they are told to be..... Although I only can afford old used ones. ;)
;) Much like yourself "Old and Used" ;D ;D
You say that like it's a BAD thing! LOL
:D
It's not a BAD thing!
Besides, we're speaking of Diana's, not Lizzie's
;)
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LOL :D
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Funny thing, I am on the other side. I have had a desire to try a Diana to see how they compare.
"Grass is always Greener" thing I guess.
But yes, I believe HW's are all they are told to be..... Although I only can afford old used ones. ;)
;) Much like yourself "Old and Used" ;D ;D
You say that like it's a BAD thing! LOL
:D
;) Lizzie your still a hot blonde in my eyes ;D
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They say the eyes are the first thing to go! ;D
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No Weihrauch's are not that good. They are just better than all the other junk. Air Arms aside. Some Dianas aside.
If Weihrauchs were that good they would not need to be tuned. They all need to be tuned to get the best out of them. ;)
-Y
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If Weihrauchs were that good they would not need to be tuned. They all need to be tuned to get the best out of them. ;)
-Y
I tend to agree with that statement, and it's one of the reasons I buy "old".
In the airgun community, it just seems to be a "given" that any air gun needs tuning, but in the pb world, I have never seen a similar attitude. If a pb guy bought a thousand dollar long rifle, and it needed to go directly to a gunsmith in order to shoot well, it's my guess that he (the shooter/gun owner) would be *TICKED* off!
The only thing I can think of that I've seen a few pb guys take their guns for (right off the shelf) is a new trigger, or some trigger work for adjustment. Other than that, they shoot stock for awhile.
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No Weihrauch's are not that good. They are just better than all the other junk. Air Arms aside. Some Dianas aside.
If Weihrauchs were that good they would not need to be tuned. They all need to be tuned to get the best out of them. ;)
-Y
Yogi - always with those negative waves. What is it with your negative waves?
???
https://youtu.be/ncbEucjsNFU
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"Always with the Negative waves" is my line at work!
;D
They say the eyes are the first thing to go! ;D
Dang... another shorted out keyboard.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/4f/d6/b2/4fd6b288e420f400d8633d40a4b9ad98.gif)
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HAHAHAHAHAH!
:D
"I've done nothing but have good thoughts about that "dang" bridge ever since we left!"
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They say the eyes are the first thing to go! ;D
Dang... another shorted out keyboard.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/4f/d6/b2/4fd6b288e420f400d8633d40a4b9ad98.gif)
LOL
Well, that may be a GOOD thing!
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For me, personally, shooting any Weihrauch is sort of a ritual.
It's truly a Zen thing. I meditate for a while, decide which model of HW I wish to shoot, and then always, set up a Temple and burn some actual Weihrauch.
As we all know, the word Weihrauch, literally translated, means Incense.
This just happens to be my favorite.
https://www.amazon.de/Zanarkand-100g-Frischer-Weihrauch-%C3%84thiopien/dp/B08PPVZM55/ref=sr_1_5?__mk_de_DE=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&dchild=1&keywords=weihrauch&qid=1619838527&sr=8-5 (https://www.amazon.de/Zanarkand-100g-Frischer-Weihrauch-%C3%84thiopien/dp/B08PPVZM55/ref=sr_1_5?__mk_de_DE=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&dchild=1&keywords=weihrauch&qid=1619838527&sr=8-5)
The description of this product, translated, is as follows:
😌 - calms the body and mind, can lighten the mood, stimulates the brain and can counteract nervousness.
🌱 - has a disinfectant effect in the air. A pleasant scent that was even used in the past to fight viruses, bacteria, mosquitoes and insects!
🌫 - can be ideally evaporated on the fragrance warmer or smoked on the incense burner. If necessary, the stones should be crushed before smoking. With the generous amount of content, we want to guarantee you a sustainable smoking time.
☀️ - obtained from Ethiopian frankincense trees (Boswellia Sacra). The comfortably warm sun gives the Harz its lively energy!
🌐 - religious symbol and remedy. Frankincense is considered a sign of the presence of God and the waving of the Holy Spirit. Should also form a protection and defense against evil.
For what it's worth, that's the way I roll with my Weihrauch.
8)
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ROFL
😆 😆 😆
Greatness! Hehe
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Been reading this and it's making me wonder if I'm missing something. I don't own a Weihrauch, never even seen one. Is there an equivalent in the PB world like maybe Anschutz?
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Weihrauch is an experience like no other.
Unique, and unto itself.
You have to own one to truly understand.
;)
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Been reading this and it's making me wonder if I'm missing something. I don't own a Weihrauch, never even seen one. Is there an equivalent in the PB world like maybe Anschutz?
Oooohhhh.. an Annie.
I want one of those airguns too.
But yep.... Same tier.
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Been reading this and it's making me wonder if I'm missing something. I don't own a Weihrauch, never even seen one. Is there an equivalent in the PB world like maybe Anschutz?
This is why I started this topic. I see how well others do with their Weihrauch guns, I'm sure skills play a big part. As I moved away from sub $100 guns to $300 and up, my results have improved greatly. But these HW30/50/95 guns keep popping up with excellent group sizes. I don't expect to out shoot my Diana 54, but I have seen others that can with their Weihrauch's. Makes me think I'm missing something.
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Weihrauch is an experience like no other.
Unique, and unto itself.
You have to own one to truly understand.
;)
😆
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Been reading this and it's making me wonder if I'm missing something. I don't own a Weihrauch, never even seen one. Is there an equivalent in the PB world like maybe Anschutz?
This is why I started this topic. I see how well others do with their Weihrauch guns, I'm sure skills play a big part. As I moved away from sub $100 guns to $300 and up, my results have improved greatly. But these HW30/50/95 guns keep popping up with excellent group sizes. I don't expect to out shoot my Diana 54, but I have seen others that can with their Weihrauch's. Makes me think I'm missing something.
You will probably see that there are two schools of thought on the gun's inherent accuracy vs the shooter's skill being the primary determinant of good groups.
Some believe that good shooters can get great groups no matter the gun. Others (myself included) think that the gun (and pellet) make an appreciable difference in how good the groups on paper are. If it was strictly shooter skill, then I should be able to get consistently tight groups with Chinese made guns. I can't, though. Both factors come into play, but a well-made gun that shoots consistently will always out-perform one that is not manufactured with tight tolerances and well-made parts..
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I agree with Lizzie. A good gun will improve any shooters results over a lesser gun. No matter how good a shooter is there's only so much they can get out of a poor gun. Like wise no matter how good a gun is its only as good as the shooter. A good gun can't make a bad shooter good. It will make their groups better than they were with a lesser gun.
Just beware of forum posted groups. Most of the groups you will see here will be cherry picked to show the shooters best groups. We all want to show off our very best results. It's only natural. You might be better off asking what kind of groups do people normally get out of these guns. And take that answer with a grain of salt too.
As for the quality of the Weihrauch they are nice not quite the Anschutz of the airgun world because Anschutz makes air rifles but Weihrauchs are definitely very nicely made pieces that can be extremely accurate with the right pellet and shooter. With a Weihrauch rifle the shooter and pellet are the weaker links in the accuracy chain.
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Liz and Ron, very well stated, IMO if someone has good equipment that is set up correctly and is a proficient shooter? these rifles are capable of 1 ragged hole groups @30yds and beyond that are half the size of your pinky nail, sub dime groups are the usual, I shoot HW rifles because IMO I think their the best bang for the buck! Value and quality! I have owned just about every quality air gun out there AA, FWB, Diana {etc} You see where I hang my hat! ;)
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;) The better the rifle allows the shooter to look in the mirror first when accuracy is not consistent. I have shot other members HW rifles most recently Bayman's 50s with the Williams peep sight. It is definitely a bit better quality-wise than my D34 both rifles are .22 so the comparison is apples to apples.
The main difference is fit and finish on the HW is just enough better to be apparent. Don't get me wrong I am a Diana fan and will never let my D460 leave my AG stable. That does not mean that I don't want to add a couple HW's to the collection ;D ;D
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;) The better the rifle allows the shooter to look in the mirror first when accuracy is not consistent. I have shot other members HW rifles most recently Bayman's 50s with the Williams peep sight. It is definitely a bit better quality-wise than my D34 both rifles are .22 so the comparison is apples to apples.
The main difference is fit and finish on the HW is just enough better to be apparent. Don't get me wrong I am a Diana fan and will never let my D460 leave my AG stable. That does not mean that I don't want to add a couple HW's to the collection ;D ;D
Same here with a few of my Diana's. In fact, I remember a thread here from a few years ago (before I owned any HWs), when I said Diana all the way! I do have a few I will hang onto, and my model 45 is in my top favorites, plus a great pesting gun, and to me, it has a sort of blocky rugged beauty that I like. The old 50 is just loaded with cool factor. 😆
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I need another HW30S, two is not enough.
You only own two HW30's??
tsk, tsk.....
Well, I do have an R7, too.
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Been reading this and it's making me wonder if I'm missing something. I don't own a Weihrauch, never even seen one. Is there an equivalent in the PB world like maybe Anschutz?
This is why I started this topic. I see how well others do with their Weihrauch guns, I'm sure skills play a big part. As I moved away from sub $100 guns to $300 and up, my results have improved greatly. But these HW30/50/95 guns keep popping up with excellent group sizes. I don't expect to out shoot my Diana 54, but I have seen others that can with their Weihrauch's. Makes me think I'm missing something.
You will probably see that there are two schools of thought on the gun's inherent accuracy vs the shooter's skill being the primary determinant of good groups.
Some believe that good shooters can get great groups no matter the gun. Others (myself included) think that the gun (and pellet) make an appreciable difference in how good the groups on paper are. If it was strictly shooter skill, then I should be able to get consistently tight groups with Chinese made guns. I can't, though. Both factors come into play, but a well-made gun that shoots consistently will always out-perform one that is not manufactured with tight tolerances and well-made parts..
This is me.
My box store gun was the only springer I had ever laid my hands on. Stunted me for more than a decade.
I had heard of Beeman, but never HW till I came here. The difference is huge.
Recently I did have a reunion with my old springer. I stuffed it full of tar so I could at least tolerate a few shots through it. At the time I did not yet have any control over my 95 in it’s out of box jump and buzz, but the difference was dramatic.
The net effect was mostly taking the gun out of the accuracy/consistency equation allowing me to actually work on me instead of “Feeling around in the dark.”
They do need to be tuned, and that does not bother me a bit.
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Been reading this and it's making me wonder if I'm missing something. I don't own a Weihrauch, never even seen one. Is there an equivalent in the PB world like maybe Anschutz?
I was actually thinking this as a similar comparison
I have an Anschutz 141 I bought approx 1968 - very nice .22 rimfire.
I have a Marlin 39A - very nice but not as nice as the Anschutz.
I have a Ruger 10/22 - good gun.
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95% or more of my shooting is pistol although I used to compete in service rifle and still shoot club level sporter weight rimfire benchrest. A big reason I shoot more pistol than rifle is the amount and weight of gear you have to haul around for rifle. With pistol I can throw everything I need in a briefcase. At my age I want things to be easy. I'm assuming that to compete in air rifle I'll have to haul around more gear. My club does have a air rifle league and I've spent a lot of time thinking about competing in it. As far as I know, no-one uses a Weihrauch. There's one guy, who is quite good, who shoots a daisy 853 I believe. He routinely beats the PCP target gun guys who have the fancy expensive German target guns. It's a casual league and you can shoot whatever you want so long al it's .177. I have a daisy 853 but I have not warmed up to it. Maybe a Weirauch would be a better choice for me. I'm not getting any younger so I better decide.
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If you decide to start shooting a bigger rifle then the 1 you have? you might want to see if people of the range you shooting at will let you try an HW you might want to purchase! 8)
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Weirauch rifles are certainly a quality item. I have one of those revered HW30S rifles and I am very happy with it. But I also have a Diana 34 and a Diana 280. I don't find that either of them needs to take a back seat to the HW30S at all. As a matter of fact the D280 has become my primary air rifle.
The fit and finish of both of my Dianas is comparable to the Weirauch. The T06 trigger in my D280 is every bit as nice as the Rekord trigger in my HW30S. The T05 trigger in my D34 needs some work but I don't shoot it much since I got the D280.
All three are well made rifles and I am happy to have all of them.
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IMO , they are that good AFTER they have been tuned. A well tuned HW is my favorite springer, a stock one is my least favorite.
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Now a question of caliber. From what I've read, .177 Weihrauch barrels are preferred over .22, I don't do .20/5mm. Are the .22 barrels over bored or is it something else? The reason I ask is currently I have more "quality" .22 pellets on hand than .177. After checking pellet selection, I'm well stocked in various JSB/AA and H&N .22's. In .177 I have a ton of cheap pellets I've bought in bulk over the years but not so many premium branded.
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Just my lame opinion but your loss not trying a .20 and more pellets for me. Also no need to tell me the reasoning, I've read pretty much all of them....lol.
That said, my 95 is in .22 and might well be a bit overbored since it shoot's the FTT 5.54 head size pellets better than the 5.53's. Also shoots the Air Arms Falcons just as well and if I'm having a good day, can park 5 under a nickel or less and even managed a dime once.
Choice is yours but s.w.a.g. guess here most will tell you get a .177.
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Just my lame opinion but your loss not trying a .20 and more pellets for me. Also no need to tell me the reasoning, I've read pretty much all of them....lol.
That said, my 95 is in .22 and might well be a bit overbored since it shoot's the FTT 5.54 head size pellets better than the 5.53's. Also shoots the Air Arms Falcons just as well and if I'm having a good day, can park 5 under a nickel or less and even managed a dime once.
Choice is yours but s.w.a.g. guess here most will tell you get a .177.
Thanks for the reply.
I didn't mean to come off harsh about the .20. It seems like a very logical option. I just don't need to split hairs. Lol (That's not an explanation ;D)
I do "Do" .25 caliber, but not often listed in the HW lineup.
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I feel that my 22 barrel if very accurate. I also have a 177 barrel. But I think the 22 shoots better.
It may indeed be a little oversized. Seems to shoot them all well. Although they feel a little loose, the AAFalcons, 5.51 seem to shoot best. FTT 5.53 and 5.54 work well with what feels like proper fit. Shoots CPHP very well too.
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Just another random lame opinion but except for the HW80 or HW90, the other models are under powered to shoot anything but the lightest weight pellets in .25 unless you're only shooting out to maybe 30 yards and those 2 are Predator GTO's at 16.7ish and FTT's at 19.91. I've seen 2 or maybe 3 that actually bought 95's in the caliber.
At least in HW, .25 is the niche, oddball caliber and most gravitate to .177, .20 or .22.
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IMO , they are that good AFTER they have been tuned. A well tuned HW is my favorite springer, a stock one is my least favorite.
Lols!!!!😁 You are spot on!!! My thoughts exactly!!!! Ok maybe a slot greased tuned 35 can pull it off but the rest need a diligent work over the make them shine. Dianas are no different in this aspect. Imho that is.
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I may have made a wrong presumption. Looking over the HW lineup, one model jumped out at me. Of course I went and started watching video reviews and now I have to get one. It's not a going to be a HW30. It's going to cost a bit more, have a few more pennies to save up. I think it will be worth it. Hopefully by the months end I will join the Weihrauch club/family/following or what ever y'all call it. I feel like a kid again, waiting with anticipation.
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I may have made a wrong presumption. Looking over the HW lineup, one model jumped out at me. Of course I went and started watching video reviews and now I have to get one. It's not a going to be a HW30. It's going to cost a bit more, have a few more pennies to save up. I think it will be worth it. Hopefully by the months end I will join the Weihrauch club/family/following or what ever y'all call it. I feel like a kid again, waiting with anticipation.
While not waiting with bated breath, I have a certain inkling of what your final choice may be.
Time will tell, but whatever you have decided on, it is money well spent as long as it is a Weihrauch.
:D
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I recently got a tuned R9 (HW95). Shot it a couple days and been sitting on the shelf gathering dust. A very fine airgun, but me and it just aren't a fit.
The Diana 34 gets more use.
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It's all a matter of taste.
Some like chicken, some like sushi.
I prefer BEEF.
:D
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It's all a matter of taste.
Some like chicken, some like sushi.
I prefer BEEF.
:D
Bacon.
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It's all a matter of taste.
Some like chicken, some like sushi.
I prefer BEEF.
:D
Bacon.
Okay, you got me on that one.
8)
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I may have made a wrong presumption. Looking over the HW lineup, one model jumped out at me. Of course I went and started watching video reviews and now I have to get one. It's not a going to be a HW30. It's going to cost a bit more, have a few more pennies to save up. I think it will be worth it. Hopefully by the months end I will join the Weihrauch club/family/following or what ever y'all call it. I feel like a kid again, waiting with anticipation.
While not waiting with bated breath, I have a certain inkling of what your final choice may be.
Time will tell, but whatever you have decided on, it is money well spent as long as it is a Weihrauch.
:D
You are SUCH an enabler. 😆
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I have a thing for blue laminated stocks. Just don't know if it's worth a $100 premium over beech. But then there's synthetic, which would be great if it started drizzling while I was out away from cover. Though synthetic is never my first option, they do have their advantages. Most likely it will come down to laminated or beech. Beech with a moderator or PG3 kit, still cheaper than the laminated. It is the HW97 that has gained my attention. I still would like a HW30. Just not as much as a HW97. That's what I get for looking ;D
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My 97s are absolute lasers when I do my part. Keep in mind while the blue lammy looks fantastic it is heavier, at least by feel to me.
They are smooth, crazy easy to cock for the power and accurate. Weight is really their only con and that in of itself could be a pro.
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I recently got a tuned R9 (HW95). Shot it a couple days and been sitting on the shelf gathering dust. A very fine airgun, but me and it just aren't a fit.
The Diana 34 gets more use.
Frank, I read your thread on the other form, very very entertaining.
And yes, you were speaking English.
Still everyone couldn’t read the “It doesn’t fit me well,” part. Too funny.
I stopped growing in Junior high, so I know what you mean on fit.
The HW30 was made form my little frame. My 95 is too big for my short reach.
I have seen several comments that the 97 is too short for some people. That may be the ticket for me.
I agree with others that they must be tuned to make them what they should be.
From a manufacturing standpoint, trying take the twang or buzz out of any spring gun would drive the cost way up.
Guides need to be fitted to each spring as the ID of the springs will always vary. That's not practical in production.
So we end up with twang and buzz, making us go inside.
I am not sure what I think of the blue laminate. I would need to see one in person.
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Wonder how many PM's Frank will be getting... ;D
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Stock fit and trigger fit can be easily fixed if those are the issues. Stock can be lengthened or shortened with the right butt pad setup. LOP can be with a set back or extra set back trigger should that be the "fit" issue and I've seen any number of owners that said trigger fit felt a little off but one of the Rowan set back triggers did the trick.
Safe guess with the current rifle shortage, his PM has more than a few offers in it should he decide to sell.
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I've noticed the HW's and their Beeman counterparts have a strong following. I've never shot, held or seen in person a Weihrauch rifle. I've worked my way up to Diana air rifles, but curious as to if Weihrauch's are that good?
All the posts of the HW30's is making me want to buy one, but not sure if that's the way I want to go. The HW50 and HW95 seem very popular also, but seem would overlap with my current airguns in power/use.Then there's the HW35... All of which I have little knowledge on.
The HW95 is really a good "bang for the buck" springer of simple modular construction that can easily be tuned and there are "tons" of after market "goodies" being offered !
(https://i.imgur.com/l8IxFiP.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/eHEAp7o.jpg)
Disassembled HW95..........
(https://i.imgur.com/6NUlm1P.jpg)
Shoots pretty good too with a home tune and the "right" pellet.........
(https://i.imgur.com/6jbM8Jwm.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/v6Ug0yHm.jpg)
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If you get one you will see for yourself. I am shooting my 95 open sighted right now and really enjoying it. Mike
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Oh yes. A $70 peep that I got for Christmas will end up costing me another $800 by this time next year.
I enjoy the peeper on my 95 as much or more than on my 30. But it’s back on the 30 now. I need 177 and 22, scoped and peeped.
Just trying to figure which models.
I have a set back trigger, just haven’t installed it yet. I would like a thinner butt pad for the 95. But will the generic ones fit my stock, or is there fitting to be done?
Frank need an adjustable to make it longer.
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Here is some HW97 shooting/pictures for you. I have since measured my distance to 58 feet and change so around 19.5 yards maybe 20 if my back is to the wall. The 97 and TX200 are a couple of the very few spring guns I can stretch out to 50 yards (I pretty much not so good with springers much past 30-35 yards but these guns do a lot to help me.)
(https://i.imgur.com/NEKGZ0Nh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/tb8URnVh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Hj4mLqhh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/B4tYoD9h.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/XlOBGoGh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Cgmq9jPh.jpg)
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Here is some HW97 shooting/pictures for you. I have since measured my distance to 58 feet and change so around 19.5 yards maybe 20 if my back is to the wall. The 97 and TX200 are a couple of the very few spring guns I can stretch out to 50 yards (I pretty much not so good with springers much past 30-35 yards but these guns do a lot to help me.)
(https://i.imgur.com/NEKGZ0Nh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/tb8URnVh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Hj4mLqhh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/B4tYoD9h.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/XlOBGoGh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Cgmq9jPh.jpg)
Wow!!
Beautiful guns and great groups!
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Here is some HW97 shooting/pictures for you. I have since measured my distance to 58 feet and change so around 19.5 yards maybe 20 if my back is to the wall. The 97 and TX200 are a couple of the very few spring guns I can stretch out to 50 yards (I pretty much not so good with springers much past 30-35 yards but these guns do a lot to help me.)
That is excellent shooting!
That laminated stock is absolutely beautiful. I always have liked blue/grey and grey/black lam. stocks. How do you like the KT? Wasn't sure about the thumb hole version. I usually don't put my thumb through the holes on them, as I unconsciously tend to pull hard into my shoulder ruining my groups. The other t.h. stocks I have give best results resting my thumb aside or above the grip.
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I just posted this picture on another thread. But these are five shot groups I just shot at ten yards rested with 4 different Weihrauchs and 5 different pellets. Granted it's only ten yards but it's consistent. The bottom 3 rows are sighters and foulers.
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. How do you like the KT?
You know, it seems lots of folks have hard time with pistol gripped air guns but for what it’s worth I MAY have an easier time with the KT vs the K blue lammy. Honestly I like them both very much and shoot them similarly.
I would caution anybody on the fence to go with the standard stock version just to be safe. I just sort of dug the way the KT model looked and I am idiot monkey who likes shiny things more then money apparently. :(
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I just posted this picture on another thread. But these are five shot groups I just shot at ten yards rested with 4 different Weihrauchs and 5 different pellets. Granted it's only ten yards but it's consistent. The bottom 3 rows are sighters and foulers.
That's very good also. I understand that many times, but not always, Weihrauch's barrels (.177) do very well with a variety of pellets. At least that's what I've read/seen in reviews.
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The HW95 is really a good "bang for the buck" springer of simple modular construction that can easily be tuned and there are "tons" of after market "goodies" being offered !
[/quote]
I really appreciate the information. I've read many of your posts on the HW95/R7. At this time, I can't bring myself to go that route as I have one of my Diana 350's detuned to 14-15 fpe. I feel that the HW95 and the D350 would overlap too much, even though the HW95/R7 may be better suited for that power level. Although that Lexus stock has called to me, Just not as much as the HW97K. In fact, just as I have been looking over their lineup the last few days I can see how they are popular.
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I’ve always sort of felt the D34 was sort of HW95ish in feel.
I will say that even though the 97/77 pretty much have the same 95 power they feel COMPLETELY different to shoot.
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I’ve always sort of felt the D34 was sort of HW95ish in feel.
I will say that even though the 97/77 pretty much have the same 95 power they feel COMPLETELY different to shoot.
Interesting comment on the feel. Heavier, so more docile shot cycle?
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We have the blue lam 97K and also the standard 97K. The blue lam is just enough heavier to make it strictly a bench gun for me, but my husband and I both love it. It's been our most consistent springer from a rest and I do prefer it to our AA TXs. The group to group consistency won't keep up with our good PCPs, but as springers go, it would be my first choice in a 50 yard shootout with a PCP.
On a day with no wind, I can usually get one or two groups under half inch at 50 yards, if I'm in my best springer form. Not pellet fussy, either.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Sxv2SYLg/P1080081.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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I’ve always sort of felt the D34 was sort of HW95ish in feel.
I will say that even though the 97/77 pretty much have the same 95 power they feel COMPLETELY different to shoot.
My D34 has been taken down to 10 fpe. When at full power it wasn't as smooth as my 350 at the same power level. But yes, normally the D34 and HW95 would be comparable to my understanding.
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We have the blue lam 97K and also the standard 97K. The blue lam is just enough heavier to make it strictly a bench gun for me, but my husband and I both love it. It's been our most consistent springer from a rest and I do prefer it to our AA TXs. The group to group consistency won't keep up with our good PCPs, but as springers go, it would be my first choice in a 50 yard shootout with a PCP.
On a day with no wind, I can usually get one or two groups under half inch at 50 yards, if I'm in my best springer form. Not pellet fussy, either.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Sxv2SYLg/P1080081.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
That's very good also.
Ok everyone, why is it that NOBODY told me about these German airguns before. Not just Weihrauch's but Diana also. I had "bought my way up", and it was a very expensive journey. I started with pumpers, but not serious until a few Nitro Piston guns. Then a bunch of NP guns looking for "the one" . Then Turkish, which I still have mixed feelings for, then Diana Clones. AND THEN I gave in with Diana's. I really like them, but... Here I am looking at Weihrauch. I may need my head examined ;D :D :D
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. Interesting comment on the feel. Heavier, so more docile shot cycle?
Just everything. The weight dampens everything, the shot cycle feels smoother and the cocking stroke is easier (in relative terms not that the HW95 is a bear) in that you don’t have to break the locking detent like on the 95.
That said the 97s really are bench guns vs the 95 being more of an all around gun that would be just as at home in the woods pesting. All just my opinion of course and keep in mind I only know a tiny bit about a tiny bit.
Take care, shoot safe
Chris
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. Here I am looking at Weihrauch. I may need my head examined
Your looking at Weihrauch because you like toys.......like most of us here I gather. There isn’t a Weihrauch rifle, at least spring gun, that will do something your Diana’s or Diana in general won’t do. There are small differences and minor quality, detail, and fit and finish things that are more preference then practical but realistically a good Diana vs a comparable Weihrauch is generally a wash performance wise IMO especially since the T06 trigger.
That said I PREFER Weihrauch but that takes nothing from Diana.
Now go buy a Weihrauch rifle. You want a new toy and those endorphins are not gonna fire themselves. :)
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Also NCG.
I don’t post here too often and go through periods when I don’t post at all. That said I have read this site for years and woman......YOU CAN SHOOT!! Full stop. ;) ;D. I’d have love to have seen some of your powder burning shooting. :)
You remind of those days I am feeling rather smug about my shooting at a range and then get smoked by somebody else and I go home feeling like I am happy I know the pointy end faces the target. :)
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It's a Beeman R7 and it's in .20, not most shooters prefered .177. The story, pics and targets shot with that rifle are here: https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=174558.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=174558.0)
Other half of the back story on that rifle was that I had fairly major right shoulder surgery (yep, I normally shoot right handed) at the end of February 2020 to fix what turned out to be a totally torn bicep, totally torn tendon, totally torn ligament, torn cartilege in the socket and have burrs shaved off both sides of my collar bone, so all the shooting I managed with that rifle was with my off arm and only one armed since I could barely reach my shooting table with my right hand to even grab and load a pellet. I'm still shooting lefty 10 months later since I have other issues with that shoulder that didn't show up until I started therapy.
Don't dismiss the HW30/R7 platform regardless of caliber you choose. They're excellent rifles and I guarantee helped a lot in the target pics you see. Even if you get the 97, grab an HW30 or R7 some day.
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It's a Beeman R7 and it's in .20, not most shooters prefered .177. The story, pics and targets shot with that rifle are here: https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=174558.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=174558.0)
Other half of the back story on that rifle was that I had fairly major right shoulder surgery (yep, I normally shoot right handed) at the end of February 2020 to fix what turned out to be a totally torn bicep, totally torn tendon, totally torn ligament, torn cartilege in the socket and have burrs shaved off both sides of my collar bone, so all the shooting I managed with that rifle was with my off arm and only one armed since I could barely reach my shooting table with my right hand to even grab and load a pellet. I'm still shooting lefty 10 months later since I have other issues with that shoulder that didn't show up until I started therapy.
Don't dismiss the HW30/R7 platform regardless of caliber you choose. They're excellent rifles and I guarantee helped a lot in the target pics you see. Even if you get the 97, grab an HW30 or R7 some day.
Thanks for sharing. Best wishes in your recovery. I would never have known those targets were shot with your off hand. Very impressive. I wasn't totally counting out the HW30/R7. It's still a consideration, just the HW97 said "Buy me first". I do have a void in the 7-ish FPE springer department that I'd like to fill. All in good time.
Take it easy and be safe.
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Also NCG.
I don’t post here too often and go through periods when I don’t post at all. That said I have read this site for years and woman......YOU CAN SHOOT!! Full stop. ;) ;D. I’d have love to have seen some of your powder burning shooting. :)
You remind of those days I am feeling rather smug about my shooting at a range and then get smoked by somebody else and I go home feeling like I am happy I know the pointy end faces the target. :)
Thank you for the nice comments. I do appreciate it. Yup, it's all relative. Just about the time I'm feeling smug, along comes a youngster who makes me look bad. That's a good thing, though.
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It's a Beeman R7 and it's in .20, not most shooters prefered .177. The story, pics and targets shot with that rifle are here: https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=174558.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=174558.0)
Other half of the back story on that rifle was that I had fairly major right shoulder surgery (yep, I normally shoot right handed) at the end of February 2020 to fix what turned out to be a totally torn bicep, totally torn tendon, totally torn ligament, torn cartilege in the socket and have burrs shaved off both sides of my collar bone, so all the shooting I managed with that rifle was with my off arm and only one armed since I could barely reach my shooting table with my right hand to even grab and load a pellet. I'm still shooting lefty 10 months later since I have other issues with that shoulder that didn't show up until I started therapy.
Don't dismiss the HW30/R7 platform regardless of caliber you choose. They're excellent rifles and I guarantee helped a lot in the target pics you see. Even if you get the 97, grab an HW30 or R7 some day.
Don't despair! The 1936 Olympic pistol shootrng Gold medal winner was a Hungarian who shot right handed. In WW2 he lost his right hand. At the 1948 Oympics he finished 2 or 3 rd shooting left handed. Quite a skill to be able to shoot from both sides. ;)
-Y
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I broke my right wrist four years ago. I thought I always practiced with my off hand, but quickly found that to be false.
I ended up shooting left haded for six months. To this day I can shoot just as poorly with either hand.
I did have to sell the big revolvers, very sad.
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It's a Beeman R7 and it's in .20, not most shooters prefered .177. The story, pics and targets shot with that rifle are here: https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=174558.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=174558.0)
Other half of the back story on that rifle was that I had fairly major right shoulder surgery (yep, I normally shoot right handed) at the end of February 2020 to fix what turned out to be a totally torn bicep, totally torn tendon, totally torn ligament, torn cartilege in the socket and have burrs shaved off both sides of my collar bone, so all the shooting I managed with that rifle was with my off arm and only one armed since I could barely reach my shooting table with my right hand to even grab and load a pellet. I'm still shooting lefty 10 months later since I have other issues with that shoulder that didn't show up until I started therapy.
Don't dismiss the HW30/R7 platform regardless of caliber you choose. They're excellent rifles and I guarantee helped a lot in the target pics you see. Even if you get the 97, grab an HW30 or R7 some day.
Don't despair! The 1936 Olympic pistol shootrng Gold medal winner was a Hungarian who shot right handed. In WW2 he lost his right hand. At the 1948 Oympics he finished 2 or 3 rd shooting left handed. Quite a skill to be able to shoot from both sides. ;)
-Y
Despair?? Oh h3ll no...lol. I have no intention of quitting shooting because of my issues. I've read of any number of members of this forum with worse problems than mine and still shooting so nope, I will be until I can't hold a rifle and pull a trigger anymore.
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Not making light of physical injury and ailments, as I've been there myself, I do have other questions regarding Weihrauch springers.
Should one consider budgeting for a spring (tune) kit for the gun, which ever it may be, right off the bat?
My expirence with springers varies a bit. I know with the Hatsan springers I've owned, they were over sprung with a way undersized spring guide. One model I couldn't shoot more than a couple times as the "Twang" was so bad it would literally give me a migraine. On the other hand, the Diana's were better, with minimal Twang, that improved with time or a spring that fit just a bit more snug on the guide. Not to compare a monster magnum with fine German engineering :D
So basically how twangy should I expect a Weihrauch to be? I don't mind a bit of twang, but see all the recommendations to have them tuned. Is it just to smooth them out, or are they in (dire) need of a better fitting spring/guide combination?
As a side note, I realized I mixed up the R7 and R9 earlier. Just so many models out there ;D
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Years ago I had a AA TX200HC. I enjoy the HW50S more than my old TX.
Disclaimer - I don't shoot from a table.
That's cuz the TX200hc is Heavy mine is 10# with a scope. I too like my HW50S better ;D
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Not making light of physical injury and ailments, as I've been there myself, I do have other questions regarding Weihrauch springers.
Should one consider budgeting for a spring (tune) kit for the gun, which ever it may be, right off the bat?
My expirence with springers varies a bit. I know with the Hatsan springers I've owned, they were over sprung with a way undersized spring guide. One model I couldn't shoot more than a couple times as the "Twang" was so bad it would literally give me a migraine. On the other hand, the Diana's were better, with minimal Twang, that improved with time or a spring that fit just a bit more snug on the guide. Not to compare a monster magnum with fine German engineering :D
So basically how twangy should I expect a Weihrauch to be? I don't mind a bit of twang, but see all the recommendations to have them tuned. Is it just to smooth them out, or are they in (dire) need of a better fitting spring/guide combination?
As a side note, I realized I mixed up the R7 and R9 earlier. Just so many models out there ;D
Not sure I can answer the question about twang comparisons but which were you thinking about? The R7 or R9? They are totally different guns.
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The Beeman R- series gets me mixed up. I previously said "HW95/R7", should have been HW95/R9, I believe. Just correcting myself. (Still learning ;D)
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The Beeman R- series gets me mixed up. I previously said "HW95/R7", should have been HW95/R9, I believe. Just correcting myself. (Still learning ;D)
Perhaps this will help.......
Weihrauch HW30S----------Beeman R7
Weihrauch HW40-----------Beeman P3
Weihrauch HW45-----------Beeman P1
Weihrauch HW50S----------Beeman R8
Weihrauch HW75-----------Beeman P2
Weihrauch HW77/HW77K---Weihrauch HW77/HW77K
Weihrauch HW80-----------Beeman R1
Weihrauch HW85-----------Beeman R10
Weihrauch HW90-----------Beeman RX-1
Weihrauch HW95-----------Beeman R9
Weihrauch HW98-----------Beeman R11
Weihrauch HW99S----------Beeman R6
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Zack, I'm very much in the minority, here, as far as the tuning thing. I haven't tuned any of my springers. I just shoot them, as is, right out of the box other than a trigger adjustment. I do the keep shooting thing and let the guns smooth out as I go. HWs do smooth up, very nicely, and most of them get more accurate after a few tins of pellets, but some have been fabulously accurate, right out of the box. My guns haven't fallen apart for lack of being tuned and I've never had one fail. Besides, I never buy a gun with the intention of sending it off to make it shoot "better". If I had to do that with all our springers, I would have stopped shooting springers long ago.
Again, I have nothing against tuning, nor am I advocating my way is the best. Just a point of information for you. The only thing I'll add is that I am not at all recoil sensitive and twangy doesn't bother me in the least. if those things bothered me, I wouldn't be shooting springers. :)
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Zack, I'm very much in the minority, here, as far as the tuning thing. I haven't tuned any of my springers. I just shoot them, as is, right out of the box other than a trigger adjustment. I do the keep shooting thing and let the guns smooth out as I go. HWs do smooth up, very nicely, and most of them get more accurate after a few tins of pellets, but some have been fabulously accurate, right out of the box. My guns haven't fallen apart for lack of being tuned and I've never had any interest in buying a gun with the intention of sending it off to make it shoot "better".
Again, I have nothing against tuning, nor am I advocating my way is the best. Just a point of information for you. The only thing I'll add is that I am not at all recoil sensitive and twangy doesn't bother me in the least.
"For me, any tuning I do would be to power down some of my springers. "
I also found it beneficial to decrease springer power levels for my shooting however I'm personally annoyed by springer twang & vibration. Before I was "spoiled" by "twangless shooting" my springers were "factory stock". After noticing some "springer issues" the "tuning adventure" was started to attempt alleviate "HW factory issues".
Shooting field target matches using "holdover aiming" and a Bushnell "duplex reticle scope" set at 12x (max allowed for the "hunter class" at that time) I found that tuning my .177 Beeman R9 to shoot a 7.9 grain boxed Crosman Premiere at 910fps I could zero the gun at the apex of the pellet flight of 30 yards and my points of impact were like these using holdover based on symbols related to "sharp focus distances"...........
(https://i.imgur.com/5zSwz55l.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/uQzETbdl.jpg)
I also learned that my .177 R9 was "temperature sensitive" with the "old style" HW parachute seal and factory lubes. This became evident during an early spring field target match in Virginia when both my R9s and my brother's R9 developed a 2" poi shift at only 25 yards towards the end of the match. The sightin was done during snow flurries that morning but the temp rose to 50ish during the match. Both my brother and I had a similar poi shift but the odd thing was the my shift was opposite the direction. It was at that time that I seriously started "tuning" my R9 to minimize temperature related poi shifting. Since my brother and I frequently hunted West Virginia squirrels the modifications made also benefited "squirrel sniping" when the mornings were cold with a warmup during the day.
After I started using scopes with "dotted reticles" which had more "aim points" like these I also started decreasing the "factory velocities"........
(https://i.imgur.com/1PlpIEHl.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/urnuA18l.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/lc3P2JHm.png) (https://i.imgur.com/CNDqzMcm.png)
My last springer purchase a few years ago was a .177 HW95 and straight from the box after a bore clean and a few dozen "fouling shots" it shot 7.9 grain CPLs at a "too high for me" buzzy 880fps so I swapped out the factory spring and guide for a home rolled spring kit based on a favorite aftermarket spring reducing the factory power level from 13.5ish to about 12.5ish fpe..........
(https://i.imgur.com/GXZl4Hhl.jpg)
Anywhoo.....I'm guessing that most springer shooters also aren't bothered with "factory shot cycles" so it makes no sense for manufacturers to increase the cost of "more carefully fitted spring to guides". LOL....that's obviously the approach taken with the Gamo440 I bought that would "rattle the teeth" with each shot! :o
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Zack, I'm very much in the minority, here, as far as the tuning thing. I haven't tuned any of my springers. I just shoot them, as is, right out of the box other than a trigger adjustment. I do the keep shooting thing and let the guns smooth out as I go. HWs do smooth up, very nicely, and most of them get more accurate after a few tins of pellets, but some have been fabulously accurate, right out of the box. My guns haven't fallen apart for lack of being tuned and I've never had one fail. Besides, I never buy a gun with the intention of sending it off to make it shoot "better". If I had to do that with all our springers, I would have stopped shooting springers long ago.
Again, I have nothing against tuning, nor am I advocating my way is the best. Just a point of information for you. The only thing I'll add is that I am not at all recoil sensitive and twangy doesn't bother me in the least. if those things bothered me, I wouldn't be shooting springers. :)
+1
I'm a newcomer to the Weihrauch world and I would find myself in Joanie's camp on the tuning thing. Out of the box, my 95 was such a huge improvement over what I had before that I didn't think it really needed anything more. However, I have never experienced a tuned Weihrauch so I have nothing to compare to. I do not yet know how good this thing might be if tuned. As for my HW95L, it is settling down now at around 1500 pellets shot through it since early March. The twang never bothered me too much but it was never bad to start with and I found the process to get here a good learning experience.
Now I must also confess that I have ordered an ARH kit recently, more to have parts on hand than anything else. Eventually, either the OEM parts will fail or I'll get the itch (I'm cursed as an engineer that way) to see what could be done by opening it up. When that time comes, I will be relying on the advice/wisdom of the forum veterans posting here. A priceless reservoir of collective knowledge.
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Zack, I'm very much in the minority, here, as far as the tuning thing. I haven't tuned any of my springers. I just shoot them, as is, right out of the box other than a trigger adjustment. I do the keep shooting thing and let the guns smooth out as I go. HWs do smooth up, very nicely, and most of them get more accurate after a few tins of pellets, but some have been fabulously accurate, right out of the box. My guns haven't fallen apart for lack of being tuned and I've never had one fail. Besides, I never buy a gun with the intention of sending it off to make it shoot "better". If I had to do that with all our springers, I would have stopped shooting springers long ago.
Again, I have nothing against tuning, nor am I advocating my way is the best. Just a point of information for you. The only thing I'll add is that I am not at all recoil sensitive and twangy doesn't bother me in the least. if those things bothered me, I wouldn't be shooting springers. :)
+1
I'm a newcomer to the Weihrauch world and I would find myself in Joanie's camp on the tuning thing. Out of the box, my 95 was such a huge improvement over what I had before that I didn't think it really needed anything more. However, I have never experienced a tuned Weihrauch so I have nothing to compare to. I do not yet know how good this thing might be if tuned. As for my HW95L, it is settling down now at around 1500 pellets shot through it since early March. The twang never bothered me too much but it was never bad to start with and I found the process to get here a good learning experience.
Now I must also confess that I have ordered an ARH kit recently, more to have parts on hand than anything else. Eventually, either the OEM parts will fail or I'll get the itch (I'm cursed as an engineer that way) to see what could be done by opening it up. When that time comes, I will be relying on the advice/wisdom of the forum veterans posting here. A priceless reservoir of collective knowledge.
LOL.....properly installing an ARH kit will accomplish 90% of the benefits for a pricey pro tune! I bought my first Maccari aftermarket kit decades ago and was spoiled. I've been using only aftermarket kits or my own "home rolled" kits since.
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Thanks for the replies. I really appreciate the information and the various views.
I understand tuning (both pro and kit) will smooth a gun out quickly, but as often as I read it done it almost seemed like a necessity. I do realise the benefits of tuning for velocity, as I've done it to three of my guns. No springer that I have shot since that one Turkish uber magnum (in synthetic stock) has been really bad, but have experienced some that were slightly unpleasant.
Again, thank all of you.
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+1
I'm a newcomer to the Weihrauch world and I would find myself in Joanie's camp on the tuning thing. Out of the box, my 95 was such a huge improvement over what I had before that I didn't think it really needed anything more. However, I have never experienced a tuned Weihrauch so I have nothing to compare to. I do not yet know how good this thing might be if tuned.
That is one of the (several) reasons I buy older guns.....they have either already been "broken in" by a previous owner, or they may have already been tuned, and I don't have to send a brand new gun off for tuning, adding to the already "pricey" tag. I have probably only ever owned somewhere in the 5-10 count *new* air rifles, and have not enjoyed shooting any of them, and end up selling or giving them away.
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I bought a new HW50S a little over a month ago and have since put about a tin and a half of pellets through it. The accuracy and trigger pull on it are amazing and the shot cycle is good with the exception of a slight twang. I've been spoiled by a Paul Watts tuned R7 and a TX200 that I installed a V-Mach kit in. The R7 and TX200 have zero twang, just a dull thud when the trigger is pulled.I could live with the twang if I had to, but with everything I've heard about the Vortek kits I decided to order one and give it a try. As great as the 50S is, I'm thinking the Vortek kit will just make it that much better.
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I bought a new HW50S a little over a month ago and have since put about a tin and a half of pellets through it. The accuracy and trigger pull on it are amazing and the shot cycle is good with the exception of a slight twang. I've been spoiled by a Paul Watts tuned R7 and a TX200 that I installed a V-Mach kit in. The R7 and TX200 have zero twang, just a dull thud when the trigger is pulled.I could live with the twang if I had to, but with everything I've heard about the Vortek kits I decided to order one and give it a try. As great as the 50S is, I'm thinking the Vortek kit will just make it that much better.
You're right and you'll be very happy.
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I went from a box store gun that I still feel is un shootable, to a HW95. That indeed was a huge difference. But by the time I had two tins through it I could no longer stand the spring buzz and jump.
I installed a Vortek PG3 and wow! It was almost as big a difference as going from the box store gun to a HW. Being new to springers, it still jumped more than I could control, so I started clipping coils. The first two didn’t really make any noticeable difference, but the third was the ticket (still over 15fpe). It was so much smoother than my HW30, I had to put a kit in that one too.
Based on my limited experience, I now know what I like and dislike, I will not own an un tampered with springer again.
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I went from a box store gun that I still feel is un shootable, to a HW95. That indeed was a huge difference. But by the time I had two tins through it I could no longer stand the spring buzz and jump.
I installed a Vortek PG3 and wow! It was almost as big a difference as going from the box store gun to a HW. Being new to springers, it still jumped more than I could control, so I started clipping coils. The first two didn’t really make any noticeable difference, but the third was the ticket (still over 15fpe). It was so much smoother than my HW30, I had to put a kit in that one too.
Based on my limited experience, I now know what I like and dislike, I will not own an un tampered with springer again.
what was the power levels with the uncut Vortek spring? Did you change the piston seal?
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Depending on how springers are held/rested when shot makes a difference in how they react, I've found. I've been practicing with bench/table shooting. I've read many posts on holds and types of rests, and trying all but rice bags and "the roller rest". The best for me so far (from bench) is to use a extra large sock filled with plastic airsoft bb's on top of a foam shooting block. It allows better front-back movement than the up-down of muzzle flip. It really tightened up my groups when benched. Otherwise I do best off hand standing.
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Ron, as a 177 out of the box was running 7.9s @ 920
The PG3 with factory seal came in @910
I clipped 1 coil at a time and tested. Didn’t really lose anything till the 3rd coil. At that point the 7.9s were in 880 range, 13.6 fpe.
That was with a little more than two tins through it. Then I converted to 22. Running 14.3s @ 660-670
After another 2,000 shots the seal failed.
Now with a new factory seal, cleaned and krytoxed, I am pushing the 14.3s @ 695 and the 14.66s @ 680, with the same clipped spring.
Yes I should have replaced the seal right away, but it looked fine and I wanted to see how long it would last. It was going down longer than I realized.
Now the shot cycle is really smooth and the slight knock I have always heard is gone.
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In my experience, a Weihrauch HW95L will be twangy even after 1000 pellets downrange. Much twangier than the Dianas I have shot (and the LGV, but that's not a fair comparison). A much bigger issue is that loads of people have reported how their .22 cal Weihrauchs aren't really all that accurate, and sadly, I must concur. My LGV .22 cal shoots rings around the HW95, and my D48 .22 cal in the middle of break-in, pellet picking and holds-learning equals the HW.
I also don't care for the fact that my HW95 (and others') doesn't even clear the basic 200 m/s barrier with Exacts, and doesn't shoot close to the manufacturer's claim with other accurate pellets. Sure, many companies lie, but Dianas shoot what the promotional materials say, as do Walthers, while I hear FWB's exceeds their claims. So, no points for HW.
I hate dismantling the HW95. Just removing the barrel is a chore compared to Dianas and Walthers. Nced wrote a very helpful two-page essay on the subject (thanks). Dianas are simpler and quicker to maintain. IME, only Walther does this right, with identical, unstrippable hex screws for all the bigger parts, and ultra-simple breakdown further down the line.
Weihrauch mainsprings cost almost double what Diana charges on theirs, while both are equally short-lived. Weihrauch piston seals are three times as costly as Diana ones. So, a Weihrauch ends up an expensive one to upkeep.
Weihrauchs also have the worst automatic safety I've experienced. Metallic loud AND awkwardly positioned. Diana and Walther safeties are much better, the latter also resettable, which is a boon to a field shooter.
Weihrauchs have superb triggers and they look and feel really nice. Otherwise, I don't think they are that good, as field guns. Small calibers for paper punching may be a different story.
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And I was looking at a HW77 laminated "special edition " for Mrs. R, but it was in .22. Maybe she will get a HW30. Have the people with .22's that have accuracy issues tried H&N FTT 5.55's?
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And I was looking at a HW77 laminated "special edition " for Mrs. R, but it was in .22. Maybe she will get a HW30. Have the people with .22's that have accuracy issues tried H&N FTT 5.55's?
I just bought my girlfriend a Hw30 for shooting at our local 25 yard range. She likes the weight and the light cocking effort because she sometimes enjoys offhand shooting. The 77 (97) is big heavy gun that is stiff cocking and a handful for most men. My 97 laminate with scope is 11 lbs. When I bench shoot off my elbows I get fatigued and tired of cocking it after an hour. Sometimes less, and I'm 6'4" 250.
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I was looking at a HW77 laminated "special edition " for Mrs. R, but it was in .22.
Maybe she will get a HW30.
Yeah ER,
As Bayman said, while the HW77 laminate is a beautiful gun - it's heavy and cumbersome to shoot.
Get the Mrs. a HW30S/HW50S in .177.
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Thanks for the input. Mrs. R. Is fairly strong, but wasn't thinking of cocking effort. That's a good point to look at. I figured the weight would help for shooting from the bench, and... I would like to have a HW77 in the house :D
I'm lining things up to buy a HW97k, figured it would be nice for her to join me. She's a good shot, but I try not to make a big deal about it. Yet, she doesn't have any airguns of her own, wanted to give her something special. I will look at the HW30 and HW50, either would also be nice.
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Thanks for the input. Mrs. R. Is fairly strong, but wasn't thinking of cocking effort. That's a good point to look at. I figured the weight would help for shooting from the bench, and... I would like to have a HW77 in the house :D
I'm lining things up to buy a HW97k, figured it would be nice for her to join me. She's a good shot, but I try not to make a big deal about it. Yet, she doesn't have any airguns of her own, wanted to give her something special. I will look at the HW30 and HW50, either would also be nice.
My girlfriend is a fit 5'9" and runs 5ks 3 - 5 times a week. That in mind I was going to blind side her with a new Hw50. Luckily I let her try them first. She could cock the Hw50 but it wasn't something she wanted to do for our normal shooting sessions. Her exact words were "No, I can't do this and enjoy shooting for long." Have you tried cocking a 50 yourself?
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Haven't tried any HW's yet. Figured we could each get a toy, something to last a long while...
I want to thank you. This was going to be written different, not mean or anything, but you do have expirence whare I don't. I'm still stuck in powder burner mindset. Generally, when someone is new or smaller, I give them a heavy gun and set them up at a bench with milder ammo. I would never give them my (really) light 30-06, they'd never want to shoot again. So I figured, give her a heavy, yet mild (FPE) springer, and set her up at a bench. Lol
So, thank you. I will take your consideration seriously.
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Haven't tried any HW's yet. Figured we could each get a toy, something to last a long while...
I want to thank you. This was going to be written different, not mean or anything, but you do have expirence whare I don't. I'm still stuck in powder burner mindset. Generally, when someone is new or smaller, I give them a heavy gun and set them up at a bench with milder ammo. I would never give them my (really) light 30-06, they'd never want to shoot again. So I figured, give her a heavy, yet mild (FPE) springer, and set her up at a bench. Lol
So, thank you. I will take your consideration seriously.
My pleasure. Thank you for listening. Fwiw, Gwen my girlfriend shot powder burners before we met that would make me wince. Pre ammo shortage we'd shoot for hours. Usually at 100yds for center fire and 50 for rimfires. Here's a picture of her with her 20 Guage at the start of the covid craziness and another one of her with a 223 Varmint rifle I got her for Christmas. She regularly shoots sub MOA groups with it and has often shot quarter MOA groups at hundred yards. She's really a better shooter than I am. Here's a picture of her shooting a 50BMG so recoil doesn't bother her but the idea of cocking the 50 for hours does. Trust me I won't steer you wrong. We need their support ;)
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I can't answer your question yet but i have bought a hw 97k .22 cal which i haven't had out yet (wife hasn't been informed yet) 5 months old here. I just bought a hw80 lrh .177 that will be here in a week. I also have to hide it for awhile. I have pcp, pumper, springers old and new. Soon they will work their way into public so damm i hope they are worth it.
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I can't answer your question yet but i have bought a hw 97k .22 cal which i haven't had out yet (wife hasn't been informed yet) 5 months old here. I just bought a hw80 lrh .177 that will be here in a week. I also have to hide it for awhile. I have pcp, pumper, springers old and new. Soon they will work their way into public so damm i hope they are worth it.
They're both good guns. The 97 should shoot very nicely in 22. The 80 is a big gun and is a little better suited for bigger calibers like 20 and 22. You should really enjoy the overall quality and accuracy. Better start working out though because they are both very heavy guns with fairly stiff cocking.
Good luck and enjoy.
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Leo, if you have that many guns will she really notice one more?
Maybe put a piece of tape on the side with a bunch of markings so she'll think it's something you have shot many times already.
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I can't answer your question yet but i have bought a hw 97k .22 cal which i haven't had out yet (wife hasn't been informed yet) 5 months old here. I just bought a hw80 lrh .177 that will be here in a week. I also have to hide it for awhile. I have pcp, pumper, springers old and new. Soon they will work their way into public so damm i hope they are worth it.
They're both good guns. The 97 should shoot very nicely in 22. The 80 is a big gun and is a little better suited for bigger calibers like 20 and 22. You should really enjoy the overall quality and accuracy. Better start working out though because they are both very heavy guns with fairly stiff cocking.
Good luck and enjoy.
Wow Ron I am so confused you have stated that the HW95 does not have enough power for you in 22 but that 22 should be fine in 97 !! pretty much same powerplant except one is a barrel cocker and the other an underlever....
Man drink some more coffee or eat another dounut !! Not ragging on ya bro Buttttt
you know cone on man....
kindly
ron
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I can't answer your question yet but i have bought a hw 97k .22 cal which i haven't had out yet (wife hasn't been informed yet) 5 months old here. I just bought a hw80 lrh .177 that will be here in a week. I also have to hide it for awhile. I have pcp, pumper, springers old and new. Soon they will work their way into public so damm i hope they are worth it.
They're both good guns. The 97 should shoot very nicely in 22. The 80 is a big gun and is a little better suited for bigger calibers like 20 and 22. You should really enjoy the overall quality and accuracy. Better start working out though because they are both very heavy guns with fairly stiff cocking.
Good luck and enjoy.
Wow Ron I am so confused you have stated that the HW95 does not have enough power for you in 22 but that 22 should be fine in 97 !! pretty much same powerplant except one is a barrel cocker and the other an underlever....
Man drink some more coffee or eat another dounut !! Not ragging on ya bro Buttttt
you know cone on man....
kindly
ron
Wow! Do you exist just to break my b@lls? Yes for my purposes 22 wouldn't be my preference for 95 (or a 97). My feelings are still the same. Yes the 97 and 95 make basically the same power BUT the guns don't generally serve the same purposes. The 97 is a very heavy gun that's usually used as a bench gun to shoot targets at fixed known distances. Trajectory isn't much of an issue here. You just dial in the scope for that distance and you're done. The 97 in 22 will have a nicer shot cycle than 177 and should be a very enjoyable gun to shoot. Hence my congratulatory compliment. My 97 is in 177 and have no regrets but that doesn't mean I can't be happy for the guy getting one in 22.
When the 95 is used in the same manner as the 97, 22 is absolutely fine by me. For the way I use the Hw95 and for my average abilities, 22 is not my preference. Here me LOUD AND FRIGGIN CLEAR what I normally say is."For me (or IMO) the Hw95 is marginally powerful enough for 22. This is because it's often used as a field gun for live targets at different distances. The 22 requires alot more holdover calculations so IMO the 177 caliber and 20 caliber are better choices. IMO the 22 is a heavy pellet that needs to be driven by a magnum powered rifle like an R1 to be flat enough for people of my average skill level to use for hunting. People like you, Mark and Si Pittway might be able to shoot toothpicks at various unknown ranges with a 10fpe 22 caliber mortar. The rest of us mear mortals are better served in the field with flatter shooting guns.
Listen my opinions are those of my own that have been formed by actual experience. I'm not a parrot, keyboard commando or a legend in my own mind. I'm a regular working guy that's very good with mechanical things, average at shooting, shoots very often and hunts occasionally. I try only to share my opinions within the context to the situation and can always explain my reasoning. I'm also humble enough to accept when I'm wrong and man enough to apologize for the times that I am.
Have a nice day
Ron
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. I'm still stuck in powder burner mindset.
I am a “gun guy” a shooters shooter if you will. So I have been where you are and I know how hard it is to be wired as a powder burner and have to sort of totally change gears.
The best pieces of advice I can give you are.....
1-Think of airguns a bit like you would black powder shooters. It is a similar, yet totally different offshoot of shooting. They both have completely different skills, tools, methodologies etc. vs standard modern firearm shooting.
2-As much as it KILLS YOU INSIDE :) don’t get hung up on power or caliber. Ultimately it comes down to suiting your actual needs vs your perceived ones. Lower power is more fun GENERALLY.
3-You are a gun guy. You likely have real guns. So as you find yourself thinking “I need at least .22 caliber and 1200fps etc. etc. take a breath and tell yourself what I tell myself.....”Wait a minute I have real guns for those kinda needs. :)”
I find MOST shooters who wander into airguns really just want to be able to do some plinking easily at home or in the back yard, they just muddy those waters with firearms knowledge and wants and perceived needs. The reality is the vast number of folks will be tickled pink with an HW30 with its biggest “fault” being its a little short.
Again you might have real hunting/pesting needs or wants and certainly fill those but if not try to check your powder burner guy at the door as hard as that is. I speak from experience. :)
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Cslinger, thanks for the advice. You make valid points.
Hey Now, I'm one week closer to owning a Weihrauch! I'm still set on getting a HW97K for myself. I love my Diana's, but some are (relatively)heavy hitters that take a bit of focus to maintain accuracy. Common sense would be to buy two HW30's for the price of one HW97, a his and hers, both easy to shoot. BUT...I love underlevers!
And in .177, not because of others experience or hearsay, but because I prefer more fpe in .22 for flatter shooting. My Diana's aren't quite there and the one's over 20fpe wear me out. I think The 13-14-ish fpe in .177 should balance velocity and cocking effort.
Hope everyone has a great day!
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Cslinger, thanks for the advice. You make valid points.
Hey Now, I'm one week closer to owning a Weihrauch! I'm still set on getting a HW97K for myself. I love my Diana's, but some are (relatively)heavy hitters that take a bit of focus to maintain accuracy. Common sense would be to buy two HW30's for the price of one HW97, a his and hers, both easy to shoot. BUT...I love underlevers!
And in .177, not because of others experience or hearsay, but because I prefer more fpe in .22 for flatter shooting. My Diana's aren't quite there and the one's over 20fpe wear me out. I think The 13-14-ish fpe in .177 should balance velocity and cocking effort.
Hope everyone has a great day!
FYI the 97k in 13-14 fpe isn't hard to cock but it's nothing to sneeze at.. It's considerably stiffer than a Hw95 at the same power. The 97k and 95 have the same springs but the 97k cocking arm is substantially shorter than the barrel of the 95. Krale has the new longer 97 with the longer barrel and cocking arm. If you plan on shooting for lengthy periods it may be worth considering. Plus you can get a good deal on the 97 and your wife's 30 and the shipping will be the same as ordering one gun.
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I find the 50 tougher to cock than the 97 tbh... The beauty of the 97k is the compact size which results to a good balance for this heavy beast. Perfect benchrest airgun from that perspective.
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REALLY? I guess it’s all about perception much like recoil.
I find the HW95 a bit more taxing the. The HW97/77. I attribute some of this to the fact the 95 needs to have its detent/lock broken each time. I find the 97/77 more pleasant over longer periods. (None of them are bad at all, just comparing).
Now again that isn’t a scientific observation or measurement of any kind and you are absolutely right about the longer/shorter lever (cocking arm) but for ME personally I actually find the 77/97 easier or more pleasant.
Again this is all about my personal perceptions not facts or science etc.
Chris
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I find the 50 tougher to cock than the 97 tbh... The beauty of the 97k is the compact size which results to a good balance for this heavy beast. Perfect benchrest airgun from that perspective.
Yeah and the 50s no joy to cock all day either. What power are you running the 97 at? Mines at 14 fpe. Do you you have a grip added to your cocking lever? Mine always feels like slippery.
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My HW50 in .22cal with a JM Hornet kit in it is just as easy to cock as my HW95 with a factory spring in it! My 50 has a 10.5'' barrel with a 7.5'' wolf can on it! My 95 has a 12.25'' barrel with the same can, I do not not find any of my HW50's that hard to cock! :P
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I can't answer your question yet but i have bought a hw 97k .22 cal which i haven't had out yet (wife hasn't been informed yet) 5 months old here. I just bought a hw80 lrh .177 that will be here in a week. I also have to hide it for awhile. I have pcp, pumper, springers old and new. Soon they will work their way into public so damm i hope they are worth it.
They're both good guns. The 97 should shoot very nicely in 22. The 80 is a big gun and is a little better suited for bigger calibers like 20 and 22. You should really enjoy the overall quality and accuracy. Better start working out though because they are both very heavy guns with fairly stiff cocking.
Good luck and enjoy.
Wow Ron I am so confused you have stated that the HW95 does not have enough power for you in 22 but that 22 should be fine in 97 !! pretty much same powerplant except one is a barrel cocker and the other an underlever....
Man drink some more coffee or eat another dounut !! Not ragging on ya bro Buttttt
you know cone on man....
kindly
ron
Wow! Do you exist just to break my b@lls? Yes for my purposes 22 wouldn't be my preference for 95 (or a 97). My feelings are still the same. Yes the 97 and 95 make basically the same power BUT the guns don't generally serve the same purposes. The 97 is a very heavy gun that's usually used as a bench gun to shoot targets at fixed known distances. Trajectory isn't much of an issue here. You just dial in the scope for that distance and you're done. The 97 in 22 will have a nicer shot cycle than 177 and should be a very enjoyable gun to shoot. Hence my congratulatory compliment. My 97 is in 177 and have no regrets but that doesn't mean I can't be happy for the guy getting one in 22.
When the 95 is used in the same manner as the 97, 22 is absolutely fine by me. For the way I use the Hw95 and for my average abilities, 22 is not my preference. Here me LOUD AND FRIGGIN CLEAR what I normally say is."For me (or IMO) the Hw95 is marginally powerful enough for 22. This is because it's often used as a field gun for live targets at different distances. The 22 requires alot more holdover calculations so IMO the 177 caliber and 20 caliber are better choices. IMO the 22 is a heavy pellet that needs to be driven by a magnum powered rifle like an R1 to be flat enough for people of my average skill level to use for hunting. People like you, Mark and Si Pittway might be able to shoot toothpicks at various unknown ranges with a 10fpe 22 caliber mortar. The rest of us mear mortals are better served in the field with flatter shooting guns.
Listen my opinions are those of my own that have been formed by actual experience. I'm not a parrot, keyboard commando or a legend in my own mind. I'm a regular working guy that's very good with mechanical things, average at shooting, shoots very often and hunts occasionally. I try only to share my opinions within the context to the situation and can always explain my reasoning. I'm also humble enough to accept when I'm wrong and man enough to apologize for the times that I am.
Have a nice day
Ron
Not busting anyones balls Ron. I could make a smart ^&* comment here but I will refain. No need to get the britches in a wad. I too have life long experiances with air arms and powder burners. So in short as much as you may try you are not an airgun god and neither am I. Neither of us are experts on HWs. That said I would wager that I do have more experience than you with HWs and shooting. That sounds condescending I know.. but is not meant to. I just speak plainly and directly. Please do not take what I convery as a personal slight.
I see that happen quite a bit around here. EGO EGO EGO Its ok to be human. I would bet a CASE OF QUALITY BEER that if you and I ever sat down and slung some lead and drank a few we would get along just fine.
I have been airgunning a long time and I have seen way too much. But it's all good. I don't want to be a Mod here or admin... just a plain spoken member who is free to pass on info and interact as do you. You act like I disrespected you on some level, perhaps that is just your personality. I don't want to steal your thunder or anything.
Your status here is safe.. its all good.
Be well my friend and if I may say so you have a nice looking girl there and seem to have a good life.. Heck any man who has a girl who likes too shoot is one blessed man !!
If I have offended you in any way I am sorry. That said I am direct and that is just how I am and if wrong I will say so.
kindly
ron
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Thanks for the insight. That's towards everyone. In all reality, these are more toys than tools, but they do come in handy from time to time (people generally don't want me pesting with centerfire's ::)). Partially the push for the 97 is to compare to my detuned 460. If I like it a lot (which I'm sure I will) I can put my 460 back to full power and have my choice for.177 underlevers, high power and really high power (like my 14.5 fpe and 20.5 fpe D350's in .177), and they (HW97's) rate really high on reviews.
As another question, a whole new can of worms... Optics and mount???
Does the HW97 need a drooper mount and how bad are they on scopes? As on another thread, my 460 just had it's way with a (cheap) scope. I was thinking a FFP EGR with about 4-16x magnification, but don't need that fancy. It would be nice though.
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I have this scope on my 95 and so far it has proved to be excellent after about 2K/3K shots.
https://us.hawkeoptics.com/airmax-30-sf-compact-4-16x44-amx-ir.html (https://us.hawkeoptics.com/airmax-30-sf-compact-4-16x44-amx-ir.html)
I used the Hawke tactical 2 piece 30 mm medium ring mounts and they have been great.
(https://i.imgur.com/P3U60Zal.jpg)
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I can't answer your question yet but i have bought a hw 97k .22 cal which i haven't had out yet (wife hasn't been informed yet) 5 months old here. I just bought a hw80 lrh .177 that will be here in a week. I also have to hide it for awhile. I have pcp, pumper, springers old and new. Soon they will work their way into public so damm i hope they are worth it.
They're both good guns. The 97 should shoot very nicely in 22. The 80 is a big gun and is a little better suited for bigger calibers like 20 and 22. You should really enjoy the overall quality and accuracy. Better start working out though because they are both very heavy guns with fairly stiff cocking.
Good luck and enjoy.
Wow Ron I am so confused you have stated that the HW95 does not have enough power for you in 22 but that 22 should be fine in 97 !! pretty much same powerplant except one is a barrel cocker and the other an underlever....
Man drink some more coffee or eat another dounut !! Not ragging on ya bro Buttttt
you know cone on man....
kindly
ron
Wow! Do you exist just to break my b@lls? Yes for my purposes 22 wouldn't be my preference for 95 (or a 97). My feelings are still the same. Yes the 97 and 95 make basically the same power BUT the guns don't generally serve the same purposes. The 97 is a very heavy gun that's usually used as a bench gun to shoot targets at fixed known distances. Trajectory isn't much of an issue here. You just dial in the scope for that distance and you're done. The 97 in 22 will have a nicer shot cycle than 177 and should be a very enjoyable gun to shoot. Hence my congratulatory compliment. My 97 is in 177 and have no regrets but that doesn't mean I can't be happy for the guy getting one in 22.
When the 95 is used in the same manner as the 97, 22 is absolutely fine by me. For the way I use the Hw95 and for my average abilities, 22 is not my preference. Here me LOUD AND FRIGGIN CLEAR what I normally say is."For me (or IMO) the Hw95 is marginally powerful enough for 22. This is because it's often used as a field gun for live targets at different distances. The 22 requires alot more holdover calculations so IMO the 177 caliber and 20 caliber are better choices. IMO the 22 is a heavy pellet that needs to be driven by a magnum powered rifle like an R1 to be flat enough for people of my average skill level to use for hunting. People like you, Mark and Si Pittway might be able to shoot toothpicks at various unknown ranges with a 10fpe 22 caliber mortar. The rest of us mear mortals are better served in the field with flatter shooting guns.
Listen my opinions are those of my own that have been formed by actual experience. I'm not a parrot, keyboard commando or a legend in my own mind. I'm a regular working guy that's very good with mechanical things, average at shooting, shoots very often and hunts occasionally. I try only to share my opinions within the context to the situation and can always explain my reasoning. I'm also humble enough to accept when I'm wrong and man enough to apologize for the times that I am.
Have a nice day
Ron
Not busting anyones balls Ron. I could make a smart ^&* comment here but I will refain. No need to get the britches in a wad. I too have life long experiances with air arms and powder burners. So in short as much as you may try you are not an airgun god and neither am I. Neither of us are experts on HWs. That said I would wager that I do have more experience than you with HWs and shooting. That sounds condescending I know.. but is not meant to. I just speak plainly and directly. Please do not take what I convery as a personal slight.
I see that happen quite a bit around here. EGO EGO EGO Its ok to be human. I would bet a CASE OF QUALITY BEER that if you and I ever sat down and slung some lead and drank a few we would get along just fine.
I have been airgunning a long time and I have seen way too much. But it's all good. I don't want to be a Mod here or admin... just a plain spoken member who is free to pass on info and interact as do you. You act like I disrespected you on some level, perhaps that is just your personality. I don't want to steal your thunder or anything.
Your status here is safe.. its all good.
Be well my friend and if I may say so you have a nice looking girl there and seem to have a good life.. Heck any man who has a girl who likes too shoot is one blessed man !!
If I have offended you in any way I am sorry. That said I am direct and that is just how I am and if wrong I will say so.
kindly
ron
Look Ron I'm going to keep this short. I obviously rub you the wrong way. I've never thought, claimed, or desired to be an airgun god. I only share my experience here for the benefit of the community. I have ZERO ego and ambition here. I have helped and offered help to lots and lots members here for nothing or next to it.
Now you have deliberately tried to embarrass me on several occasions. The latest by pointing out a non existent caliber hypocrisy. If you could read what I write objectively you would see that I'm quite consistent in my views. You would also see that I try to give factual information and when my input is only my opinion I state that. Again I only contribute here for the benefit of the community. I'm here for everyone with an open heart and mind. You on the other hand, go out of your way to embarrass me and make false statements about personality and ego. Please let it go and move on.
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I have this scope on my 95 and so far it has proved to be excellent after about 2K/3K shots.
https://us.hawkeoptics.com/airmax-30-sf-compact-4-16x44-amx-ir.html (https://us.hawkeoptics.com/airmax-30-sf-compact-4-16x44-amx-ir.html)
I used the Hawke tactical 2 piece 30 mm medium ring mounts and they have been great.
(https://i.imgur.com/P3U60Zal.jpg)
Looks to be a good fitting setup that I'd think would work well on the 97
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Thanks for the insight. That's towards everyone. In all reality, these are more toys than tools, but they do come in handy from time to time (people generally don't want me pesting with centerfire's ::)). Partially the push for the 97 is to compare to my detuned 460. If I like it a lot (which I'm sure I will) I can put my 460 back to full power and have my choice for.177 underlevers, high power and really high power (like my 14.5 fpe and 20.5 fpe D350's in .177), and they (HW97's) rate really high on reviews.
As another question, a whole new can of worms... Optics and mount???
Does the HW97 need a drooper mount and how bad are they on scopes? As on another thread, my 460 just had it's way with a (cheap) scope. I was thinking a FFP EGR with about 4-16x magnification, but don't need that fancy. It would be nice though.
You wont regret buying a 97. IMHO the most easy to shoot accurate springer together with the AA TX200.
Buy a Hawke Airmax 3-9x40ao AMX with Sportsmatch mounts and you'll be very, very happy with the overall combo. The 97 is not hard for scopes at all.
To your next question already... Yes, the 97 typically loves JSB Exact 4.52mm pellets.
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Thanks for the insight. That's towards everyone. In all reality, these are more toys than tools, but they do come in handy from time to time (people generally don't want me pesting with centerfire's ::)). Partially the push for the 97 is to compare to my detuned 460. If I like it a lot (which I'm sure I will) I can put my 460 back to full power and have my choice for.177 underlevers, high power and really high power (like my 14.5 fpe and 20.5 fpe D350's in .177), and they (HW97's) rate really high on reviews.
As another question, a whole new can of worms... Optics and mount???
Does the HW97 need a drooper mount and how bad are they on scopes? As on another thread, my 460 just had it's way with a (cheap) scope. I was thinking a FFP EGR with about 4-16x magnification, but don't need that fancy. It would be nice though.
You shouldn't need a drooper mount. Mine was a little low. It didn't really need it but I tweaked the barrel.
You will need a springer rated scope. I would recommend rings with a recoil pin to be on the safe side.
I also recommend the Sportsmatch rings and the Airmax scopes. That's what I have on mine and I'm really happy with it.
Sportsmatch T04C rings
I have the 4-12x40 Airmax scope to be exact.
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Again, thanks for the information. I will check out that Hawke air max. I have looked at those scopes, and many others. Usually I run a Pinty 4-16X40AO (UTG true Hunter "copy"). They are decent for sub $100 (around $50-60 on amazon) but the turrets don't track the best (and had 1 of 6 fail, so far). Looking to take a step up for airgun optics.
Triggerfest, I wasn't going to ask about pellets, haha. Usually the guns tell me, but thank you for giving a starting point. I've been into airguns for the last decade or so, but just getting into higher end the last few years. Still not the best shot generally, but good enough when it counts. I know I'm asking many amateur questions, just trying to get the most for the money. And when my time comes to pass, I want to leave something nice for the kids. Hopefully not anytime soon.
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97K next on my list.
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97K next on my list.
That is the way I am leaning too. But then that could change today at the fun shoot in Mconnel. I see you are non N IL, are you planning to attend?
I also would love to try a HW80/R1 in 22. No need for one now, but I may try another escape attempt from this stupid state.
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97K next on my list.
That is the way I am leaning too. But then that could change today at the fun shoot in Mconnel. I see you are non N IL, are you planning to attend?
I also would love to try a HW80/R1 in 22. No need for one now, but I may try another escape attempt from this stupid state.
Stupid state? Airgun laws?
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I think the R1/HW80 in .22cal or .20cal is about as good as it get gets for this power plant, I ordered a new 310mm threaded barrel from Chambers not long ago, it still has arrived yet! but its in .22cal, I plan to change this barrel out on 1 of my .20cal R1's that I have, I don't need 2 of them in .20cal! and miss not having a R1 in .22cal, that's what I think about these rifles in this caliber! ;)
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I think the R1/HW80 in .22cal or .20cal is about as good as it get gets for this power plant, I ordered a new 310mm threaded barrel from Chambers not long ago, it still has arrived yet! but its in .22cal, I plan to change this barrel out on 1 of my .20cal R1's that I have, I don't need 2 of them in .20cal! and miss not having a R1 in .22cal, that's what I think about these rifles in this caliber! ;)
Good sell me the 20 caliber barrel. Thanks
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Again, thanks for the information. I will check out that Hawke air max. I have looked at those scopes, and many others. Usually I run a Pinty 4-16X40AO (UTG true Hunter "copy"). They are decent for sub $100 (around $50-60 on amazon) but the turrets don't track the best (and had 1 of 6 fail, so far). Looking to take a step up for airgun optics.
Triggerfest, I wasn't going to ask about pellets, haha. Usually the guns tell me, but thank you for giving a starting point. I've been into airguns for the last decade or so, but just getting into higher end the last few years. Still not the best shot generally, but good enough when it counts. I know I'm asking many amateur questions, just trying to get the most for the money. And when my time comes to pass, I want to leave something nice for the kids. Hopefully not anytime soon.
The German brands for airguns will last generations indeed. And any grown up kid can appreciate a 97.
So the HW choice is sorted...
Scope is kind of sorted...
A pellet as starting point...
Then you only have a choice to make for the stock version LOL
Personally I didn't like the 97 standard stock at all. And I fell in love with the Blackline Thumbhole stock, a synthetic stock obviously. Typically synthetic stocks are not done here, but hey, function over form ! Anyway, there is a wooden thumbhole stock as well.
Let me please explain why I like Thumbhole stock over the standard one.
For shooting the 97 as benchrest airgun, like you are planning to do and the 97 is a perfect platform for that, you'll have your hand on the rest, the front of the stock on your hand and then the upper part of the thumbhole can perfectly rest on your thumb. Since the 97 is kind of hefty, the stock rested (think artillery hold) on your thumb is more relaxed then shooting the standard stock when shooting benchrest. Though the difference is relative minimal since else your three smallest fingers have to support the standard stock and you'll start to notice that during extended shooting sessions.
At least some food for thought again ;)
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My friend, I don't think ur going to see much difference in accuracy from any of the HW branded rifles, the 97 is a heavy beast! I have owned bunches of them in all calibers, if you want My opinion you would be better off with a HW98 or an R1 Carbine over the 97k! or the 80k, their lighter but not by a bunch, but their easier to handle all the way around! and good bench shooters or hunters, JMO 8)
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I appreciate the input. I'm not concerned with the weight of the 97. I often shoot my D460 off hand, but not for long periods (10-20 shots). If planning on a longer shoot, I'll pick a different gun or shoot benched. Who knows, I may also get a HW95 or a HW98 down the road, but we will get a HW30 (or two) before then.
As to the stock options, I really wanted blue laminated, BUT... The price difference seems large. I just found out the synthetic stock was SOLID. That makes it hard to decide as a solid synthetic stock makes me interested. I'm not against the 97KT or the 97K. And I do like the beech, solid synthetic and laminated. When I have cash on hand, I will see what's in "stock". Hehe.
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Buy once, cry once. If you really want the blue laminate, and it is quite a nice looking rifle, you will get one. The question will it cost you one or two HW97’s. ;)
I think you will be thrilled with whatever 97 you get.
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I agree. I highly recommend the laminate stock versions of HWs, as long as the extra weight isn't an issue for your particular needs (and the laminate stocks are heavier). It's not just looks, either. Our two laminate HWs 997k and HW30) do seem to shoot a touch better than our standard beech stock versions. Could be the extra weight, denser wood, whatever.
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As to the stock options, I really wanted blue laminated, BUT... The price difference seems large.
Wait until Krale has them in stock $518 plus shipping. Can't beat that ...
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Wait??? Haha, I'm trying. Krale's inventory looks thin on Weihrauch products at the moment. I've been watching all the bigger shops for availability.
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I have my first HW rifle on order, a 97k, standard beech stock just no love for the look of any laminate. My only other HW gun is a 75 air piston pistol and if it reflects any quality toward the rifle I know I will be pleased. I do have a Diana 54AirKing Pro and find it big, heavy and very heavy to cock, but then I am comparing it to a nice little FWB 124, just restored by David Slade.
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HW's must be very good. Try finding an HW that you think you want in stock, or in the classifieds, anywhere.
I know that I'm waiting on just one more. AoA says it's on a boat and should be in stock in 2-4 weeks depending on customs.
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HW's must be very good. Try finding an HW that you think you want in stock, or in the classifieds, anywhere.
I know that I'm waiting on just one more. AoA says it's on a boat and should be in stock in 2-4 weeks depending on customs.
You're not kidding about trying to find what you want and things being out of stock. I've been watching everything get bought up, haha. I may have a long wait to see what I want become available.
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Lack of availability is a good thing for me. I am convinced I “Need” two more rifles so I can have 177 and 22, scoped and peeped.
I just don’t know which ones.
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Greg, what gun would that be? ::)
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Greg, what gun would that be? ::)
I need one more HW30S. This one will get a Red Dot sight.
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I need to get my hands on a 97k as I have never seen an underlever before. I would also like to try a HW80/R1.
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I need one more HW30S. .
If I had a dime for all the guns I “NEED”. :p. :)
Truth be told I passed the “NEED” off ramp many many many miles back and just sort of accelerated down “WANT SHINY THINGS PARKWAY”. :(
I have a new shiny thing in the mail as we speak because ......... well shiny and well.....monkey brain. :(
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Synthetic stock HW97KT... Should I buy now or wait for the blue lammy? I tend to be impatient. I kind of want both. Lol
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Synthetic stock HW97KT... Should I buy now or wait for the blue lammy? I tend to be impatient. I kind of want both. Lol
I'm partial to the laminate
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I need one more HW30S. .
If I had a dime for all the guns I “NEED”. :p. :)
Truth be told I passed the “NEED” off ramp many many many miles back and just sort of accelerated down “WANT SHINY THINGS PARKWAY”. :(
I have a new shiny thing in the mail as we speak because ......... well shiny and well.....monkey brain. :(
HAHA LOL- FUNNEEEEEEE :D
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Synthetic stock HW97KT... Should I buy now or wait for the blue lammy? I tend to be impatient. I kind of want both. Lol
Wait for the laminate.....there's just something so.... real.....about it.
And, of course, it's PRETTY!
Guys LOVE pretty guns!
Oh- nevermind....I have known quite a few shooters who think black synthetic is sexy.
;)
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Lol. I should wait...
Also, my magnums have been wearing me out. I need something easier... Like a HW30. Haha, I've come full circle. I wish inventories were full.
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Lol. I should wait...
Also, my magnums have been wearing me out. I need something easier... Like a HW30. Haha, I've come full circle. I wish inventories were full.
I know that *I* would. Synthetic is a nice practical choice if you're hunting and have it out in the weather/ elements frequently, but for looks (in my own opinion) woodgrain is a nice thing.
As for getting tired of magnums, I own a fairly decent range, from R7/HW30 through Gertrude, my R1, which is what I consider closest to "magnum" out of all my guns, and I shoot Gertrude and Augustine (the R10) more (by far) than the others.
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Oh- nevermind....I have known quite a few shooters who think black synthetic is sexy.
Oh WOW, the NEW FX IS OUT! lol
(https://www.wideopenspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/uglyrifles-714x384.jpg)
I appreciate where ya comin' from. Methinks perhaps it's to offset the lack of tac-cool in reality.
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Haha :D
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What gun was that???
Lizzie, I do think they're magnums. Plenty of power anyways ;D
Well, I done did it. The biggest issue I have is weather here in NY state. We get like 3 weeks of good weather a year, lol. Maybe a few more, but you get the point. I watched a few more reviews while having a night cap, and figured why not. It might not be a shiny thing, lol, but a nice thing.
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What gun was that???
Lizzie, I do think they're magnums. Plenty of power anyways ;D
True! Plenty of Power!
Good point! They just don't have the same velocity as what I usually consider a "magum" gun.
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Have you ever seen one of those fire. The ROF is mind boggling. Just like quick brrrp. I managed to come across a bunch of APG videos some years back. The action is wicked cool in almost steampunk way with that whole rotating / wind up chamber.
Neat gun. Far too complex a mechanism and far to fragile of ammo but wicked cool. Also I’m not sure any case less ammo firearm has adequately worked out a way to manage the heat. That is one of the benefits of the ejecting case it sheds some heat with it.
Back to the question at hand. I am in the laminate camp. I just really like laminate colored wood stocks for no practical reason then........well again oooo shiny ....... monkey brain. :)
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. What gun was that???
Sorry just saw this. It’s an HK G11. It’s got one mag loaded and neither of the spares shown/locked into place.
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I may have ended up with more than one Weihrauch. :o
Synthetic HW97KT .177
Blue Laminated HW97k .22
Now the waiting game...
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See you did it exactly the proper way. You got the model you really wanted, but you got a radically different model in a different caliber in order to widen your experience the most. Seems to me you couldn’t have done better.
In case your wife is like mine she may be throwing words around like Buddd. Jet or something to that effect sounds made up so I just ignore it. :)
Take care, shoot them in good health.
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I have to say WOW, Weihrauch guns are that good. Lol.
My first HW97K came in, the .22 in Blue laminated stock. Did a barrel cleaning, didn't have a big enough Allen key for the "air stripper", so used a straw to draw my bore whips and patches through.
This gun has a tight bore!!!, lol. One worrie gone. Using CPHP 14.3's, I shot two groups at an honest 25 yards (26.3 via laser range finder). The first was initial sight in and second was 10 shots, which shifted as the bore "seasoned".
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Awesome. Glad you are happy. Sometimes there is that worry when you recommend a “restaurant” that has always been great for you and your friends but then the person recommended has the worst experience ever.
Very happy you both got what you wanted and it seems as if it will live up to the hype. Hella good shooting straight out of the box. :)
Take care, shoot safe,
Chris
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If you think that's impressive try some H&N FTT's 5.53mm you'll turn that group into 1 hole! ;)
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A few years ago I had issues with 4.52mm H&N FTTs shot from my .177 R9 which has a "looser bore" than my newer .177 HW95. Well......I ordered 4 tins of 4.52mm FTTs to revisit the pellet for my "tighter bore" HW95. I'm hoping that they work out OK, perhaps as a replacement of the .177 boxed Crosman Premiers that have become "un-obtanium". Where were you able to find 4.53 FTTs because Trenier didn't list that size.
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I have a tin and partial of FTT 5.54& two tins of 5.55 for my loose bore guns. I may try the 5.54's, if too tight I see if 5.53's are available. My .22 stash mainly consists of A.A. 16gr. pellets and CPHP's with a veriety of JSB and H&N. I wish the sniper's were available.
I have 8 tins of H&N FTT 4.52's and a good assortment of JSB/A.A. 4.52's for the .177 barrels. Most recently found in back of closet was a batch of undersized A.A. 10.3gr. "4.52's". Haven't seen FTT 4.53's available in a while. I think PA carried them at one point but shows currently unavailable.
Hopefully the synthetic HW97KT I'm awaiting on isn't "over bored". But I'm thankfull the .22 HW97K does have a tight bore, those CPHP's were tight, usually they are just snug to loose in a veriety of my guns.
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After a bit more shooting, some 50 yard spinners for fun I'm truly impresed. This gun is just as accurate as some of my others, but much easier in the loading department and don't have to concentrate as hard. I can shoot longer without getting worn out, a big plus. I did add a 30mm scope that is over magnified, (6-24X50AO) but the Etched glass recticle makes reaching out very easy. Can't wait to find "the pellet" and push this guns limits. Of course it shoots a bit slower than my others, but the benefits in cocking effort and shot cycle out way the fact that there's a bit more drop at distance.
I foresee more HW's in the future, but I'm keeping my Diana's. The HW95 and HW30 are definitely next. Thanks everyone.
Take it easy.
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Congrats Zach!.... On a beautiful gun and some great shooting!
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I have a tin and partial of FTT 5.54& two tins of 5.55 for my loose bore guns. I may try the 5.54's, if too tight I see if 5.53's are available. My .22 stash mainly consists of A.A. 16gr. pellets and CPHP's with a veriety of JSB and H&N. I wish the sniper's were available.
I have 8 tins of H&N FTT 4.52's and a good assortment of JSB/A.A. 4.52's for the .177 barrels. Most recently found in back of closet was a batch of undersized A.A. 10.3gr. "4.52's". Haven't seen FTT 4.53's available in a while. I think PA carried them at one point but shows currently unavailable.
Hopefully the synthetic HW97KT I'm awaiting on isn't "over bored". But I'm thankfull the .22 HW97K does have a tight bore, those CPHP's were tight, usually they are just snug to loose in a veriety of my guns.
"Hopefully the synthetic HW97KT I'm awaiting on isn't "over bored""
I'm wondering is HW has changed their .177 bore specs. I never had "tight fit issues" with unsized boxed Crosman Premiers with and of their springers until I bought my most recent one, a .177 HW95. With the HW95 loading unsized CPLs into the leade was a "sore loading finger affair" due to the tight fit. I later bought a .177 HW95 barrel from SSSO (a canadian retailer) that was liquidating their stock of HW parts and found that it had a similar "tigher bore" as the barrel that came with my .177 HW95.
Anywhoo.......let us know how the bore of your new HW97TK fits the pellet.
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Those AA fields 16gn should shoot as well! all my .22cal HW barrels love them! ;)
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I foresee more HW's in the future, but I'm keeping my Diana's. The HW95 and HW30 are definitely next. Thanks everyone.
Take it easy.
Congrats on the new guns. Sounds like you're a happy customer. You won't be any less happy with Hw95 or Hw30. They were my first and second quality airguns respectively. I eventually got a Hw97. They all shoot well but I shoot the Hw30s at least twice as much the others. If you think you're having fun now wait until you get the 30 in hand.
Best wishes and congratulations
Ron
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I'll second what Ron says. I do tend to be a bit OCD about group size, but my favorite shooting sessions are actually playing with the HW30 and plinking at steel targets. Pure air gun shooting pleasure.
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I'll second what Ron says. I do tend to be a bit OCD about group size, but my favorite shooting sessions are actually playing with the HW30 and plinking at steel targets. Pure air gun shooting pleasure.
So that is how you got to such an excellent marksperson!? :D
You once said that buzz/twang does not bother you. You have concentration powers well beyond mine. :-[
Thanks for sharing your shooting tips. ;)
-Yogi
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. You once said that buzz/twang does not bother you.
Never really bothered me either. Just part of the charm of a spring gun. I mean heck I’ve run AR15s with more buffer spring “twang” then some airguns.
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I hate spring twang! from a springer or an AR, I find ways to get rid of that noise!!! 8)
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I hate spring twang! from a springer or an AR, I find ways to get rid of that noise!!! 8)
No twang please. My next one will be de twanged after the first few shots. Life is too short to put up with any kind of buzz or twang.
“Well, I hate clocks and the way they tick
Man, it makes me nervous and it makes me itch
I itch and I itch 'til the money went
Said, "Man there's a lotta things I ain't done yet
Whole lotta things I ain't done yet."
Rick Miller
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The HW97KT .177 came in today, but had work that took priority. Other than opening the box to ensure the correct rifle, I haven't touched it since. I can say the synthetic stock is deceptively heavy. This one was bought from AOA, had a Chrony slip. Does anyone know if they actually fire these? Aside from some reservations on shooting before a proper cleaning, this gun was shooting "Hot" if the slip was indeed for this gun, as the majority were over 900fps, maybe dieseling?
I leave it at that and give It a rundown tomorrow.
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Congrats ! Yes the synthetic stock is heavy, solid/tough and will definitely contribute to your accuracy. Maybe not so gorgeous as wood, but very practical. For shooting the 97 I prefer the synthetic stock over the standard woodstock, especially when shooting from a bench.
My synthetic 97 did 14.3fpe with a standard JSB Exact 4.52 cal pellet. And that's a great pellet as starting point for when you start testing pellets.
Yeah, probably your 97 will diesel a bit. Like a good Weihrauch tends to do with all that additional fat and oil everywhere on and in it ;)
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I think if you got a chrony read out it was tested, I have gotten rifles from them that were not tested but to me that's ok!! ;)
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Zack that's a little hot. Well within acceptable dieseling though. It'll likely clear up. If not you'll be cleaning it out and putting a seal in it in 3 to 5 tins. I think mine shot around 880s with 8.44 Exacts when new. If you don't have a chronograph, I would suggest getting one if you like the hobby. It's a key diagnostic tool.
Just shoot it and see what happens. Btw, If it's dieseling you should be able to smell the burning oil.
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The HW97KT .177 came in today, but had work that took priority. Other than opening the box to ensure the correct rifle, I haven't touched it since. I can say the synthetic stock is deceptively heavy. This one was bought from AOA, had a Chrony slip. Does anyone know if they actually fire these? Aside from some reservations on shooting before a proper cleaning, this gun was shooting "Hot" if the slip was indeed for this gun, as the majority were over 900fps, maybe dieseling?
I leave it at that and give It a rundown tomorrow.
900fps doesn't seem to be excessive for a new HW springer. The last new HW I bought was a .177 HW95 and it shot 7.9 grain Crosman Premiers at 880fps with no detectable dieseling. Matter of fact, when disassembled to switch out the HW petroleum based factory lube for Dupont Krytox I found that THIS PARTICULAR HW95 was perfectly lubed straight from the box. While not a HW97 here are a couple pics of the HW95 parts when broken down. The INTERNALS of the two HW springers are similar........
(https://i.imgur.com/6NUlm1P.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/GC4Lj5s.jpg)
Antwhoo....in the past I have had R9s that had excessive lube slathered in them so I'm guessing that it all depends on the "slatherer". ::)
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After a few hundred shots I will chrony and see how it's doing. I did do a barrel cleaning and got it scoped early this morning. I did try two CPHP pellets and found them to be tight when chambering. Then switching over to H&N FTT 4.52's I preceded to sight in at 25 yards. The scope being used only goes down to 50 yards in the parallax setting, but did well at 25 yards.
The target in photo was the first 10 after sight in. Not bad for being a bit shakey. ;)
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After a few hundred shots I will chrony and see how it's doing. I did do a barrel cleaning and got it scoped early this morning. I did try two CPHP pellets and found them to be tight when chambering. Then switching over to H&N FTT 4.52's I preceded to sight in at 25 yards. The scope being used only goes down to 50 yards in the parallax setting, but did well at 25 yards.
The target in photo was the first 10 after sight in. Not bad for being a bit shakey. ;)
Nice shooting! And a fine looking rifle!
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After a few hundred shots I will chrony and see how it's doing. I did do a barrel cleaning and got it scoped early this morning. I did try two CPHP pellets and found them to be tight when chambering. Then switching over to H&N FTT 4.52's I preceded to sight in at 25 yards. The scope being used only goes down to 50 yards in the parallax setting, but did well at 25 yards.
The target in photo was the first 10 after sight in. Not bad for being a bit shakey. ;)
Target looks good. Don't flip flop between the H&Ns and the Crosmans. One will mess up the other. It has to do with barrel seasoning. Stay with the one or the other. Personally I would stay with the H&Ns. You'll probably find your group tightening up as the H&Ns clear out the Crosman metal from the barrel and lay down their own.
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Nice!
Is the stock really synthetic? I had heard that they just used a special paint over wood. Maybe, I'm getting a different model confused. ::)
Never could get the hange of under or sided cockers... :-[ :-\
-Y
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How do you like the pistol grip?
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Nice!
Is the stock really synthetic? I had heard that they just used a special paint over wood. Maybe, I'm getting a different model confused. ::)
Never could get the hange of under or sided cockers... :-[ :-\
-Y
Definitely 100% synthetic. And also definitely not "cheap". Very solid and feels really nice. Also, absolutely not slippery. Personally I prefer the "feel" of the synthetic over the wooden version. But yeah, agree, wood is way more nice to the eye !
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Thanks for the replies and kind words.
I will continue using this tin of H&N FTT's for this rifle until gone. Just used the Crosman's to get an estimation of chamber diameter (loose or tight). I have found switching between brands affects accuracy a bit.
This rifle really has a synthetic stock. Instead of being hollow like most they chose to make it solid. Very nice, but not a lightweight. I like the pistol grip on this gun, though it might not be for everyone.
I'm blown away by the accuracy of these rifles so far. Both the HW97's were just taken out of the box, cleaned the bore and shot. If you don't mind a bit of extra weight I think these are a great choice. Even shooting off hand the weight helps to steady my aim, but the weight is better suited for shooting off a rest.
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I'm having a problem with my new Weihrauch HW97KT...
I'm hitting everything I aim at. Lol. I have a 1.25" spinner out just past 50 yards, no problem hitting that. I may need smaller targets. I only have one set of silhouette animals left (gave away a bunch to family), but may buy more just for the chickens. Any suggestions for small targets welcome. I haven't bought paintballs yet ;D
I did add a moderator to the synthetic HW97KT .177, and as usuall needed to adjust scope roughly 1.5 MOA. The gun didn't need It, but since it was purchased already, I added it. Accuracy seems consistent with it on.
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Yogi, I think it was the "all weather" version of the HW50s that was painted wood. If I remember correctly.
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I'm having a problem with my new Weihrauch HW97KT...
I'm hitting everything I aim at. Lol. I have a 1.25" spinner out just past 50 yards, no problem hitting that
I am having the same problem with My new HW30. I think it is a common problem with Weihrauch in general.
I paint the steel targets so I can see where I hit. So it adds some challenge, not just a hit but also where did it hit.
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Yes sir, the saying "you get what you pay for" definitely holds true for Weihrauch! Congratulations!
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I'm having a problem with my new Weihrauch HW97KT...
I'm hitting everything I aim at. Lol. I have a 1.25" spinner out just past 50 yards, no problem hitting that. I may need smaller targets. I only have one set of silhouette animals left (gave away a bunch to family), but may buy more just for the chickens. Any suggestions for small targets welcome. I haven't bought paintballs yet ;D
I did add a moderator to the synthetic HW97KT .177, and as usuall needed to adjust scope roughly 1.5 MOA. The gun didn't need It, but since it was purchased already, I added it. Accuracy seems consistent with it on.
Here are a couple that I created using my CAD software that works well for me out to 50 yards. They were created to fit a standard 8 1/2" x 11" letter format..........
(https://i.imgur.com/qG4o7sJ.png) (https://i.imgur.com/is7YTzE.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/4ywz5Qq.jpg)
They work well when printed on 110# card stock, even with dome pellets.........
(https://i.imgur.com/gmHWaBk.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/9CVD7jn.jpg)
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Thanks everyone.
nced (Ed), thanks for posting the targets, I may have to buy another printer, The old one gave out and really haven't needed one since. Everything has gone digital and Mrs. R wouldn't be happy if I started shooting usb sticks or tablets/phone/monitors ;D
I've had to start shooting with both eyes open. Spending more time on scope is causing eye strain with just one eye open. I suggest it to those who haven't tried to give it a go. I am left eye dominant but shoot as a righty. But found for long shooting sessions my eyes aren't as wonky afterwards. Didn't used to affect me but as time goes on I try different things to make life more enjoyable/comfortable. Just mentioning as I've been shooting these underlevers (a lot) more than other guns.
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Same here on the dominance thing and I also shoot with both eyes open for the same reason. My recommendation for anyone who does close one eye is to close it gently and avoid squinting. It will reduce fatigue. In the past, I also used a patch over my left eye so I could leave it open. Not exactly fashionable, but I was younger then and more concerned with looks. :)
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I'm having a problem with my new Weihrauch HW97KT...
Any suggestions for small targets welcome. I haven't bought paintballs yet ;D
These are cheap... once you start hitting them, see it you can light one. ;)
(https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/b/kitchen-matche-s-match-box-blue-wood-table-181004786.jpg)
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Never would have thought about shooting matches. Thanks for the suggestion. If I plan on trying to light them should probably keep water on hand ;D
(It's been dry here)
I also thought about different hard candy as targets. Something that would dissolve with rain. I may draw up some 3/4" bulls to shoot on some cardboard later today. Take 5 shots each. Usually what we do for BB guns in the barn, but I'll stretch it out a bit more. Maybe 30-40-50 yards and see how I do. I'll definitely try out the matches though, thanks for the idea.
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Get those paint balls. Get a bag of golf tees. Get a 2x4, 2-3 feet long and every couple inches drill a hole big enough for the golf tee. Now set a paint ball on top of each one and start plinking away. Object is to shoot the paint ball without breaking the golf tee.
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When I first joined the forum I went down to southern New Jersey for a fun shoot at a member's home another member Joe Palone was able to light a strike-anywhere kitchen match with one of his Motorhead tuned Weirauch .177 rifles at 25 yards.
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Yeah, strike anywhere matches are what you need, those in the pic won't light unless you shoot the matches as the projectile and hit the striker pad on the box.
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Good point Jimmy, I chose that photo because it looked "generic". ::)
I don't know if they still make "Ohio Blue Tips" ?
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...
I also thought about different hard candy as targets. Something that would dissolve with rain. I may draw up some 3/4" bulls to shoot on some cardboard later today. Take 5 shots each. Usually what we do for BB guns in the barn, but I'll stretch it out a bit more. Maybe 30-40-50 yards and see how I do. I'll definitely try out the matches though, thanks for the idea.
Try lollipops, no need for golf tees.
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I don't know. I remember a lot of stores stopped carrying them because they'd get knocked off the shelf and sometimes ignite. Of course it would immediately smother itself, but it freaked people out. Happened at the grocery store I worked at more than once.
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Oyster crackers are a nice shattering target that's bio-friendly. There are other foodstuffs that would work as well. How about a pinto bean or a dried pea on top of a golf tee? Have had fun shooting wine bottle corks. They are tough to break and they jump a little further every time you hit them.
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Oyster crackers
BRILLIANT!
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Oyster crackers
BRILLIANT!
Best part of oyster crackers is the birds that come to eat them! And look you're already sighted in for that distance. How convenient ;)
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I ended up ordering a HW95 .177 with the basic stock and a slip on moderator. It was an unnecessary purchase but I'm glad I made it. Recieved it a few days ago, cleaned the gunk out of the barrel and have been getting to know it the last couple days. The leade/chamber isn't tight nor loose. It has done very well with a veriety of pellets, and I've been using open sights. To get the most from it I'd have to scope it.
Using some recently discovered Air Arms 10.3gr. "4.52mm" pellets (that didn't really spec 4.52mm) from the back of a closet shelf, this gun does very well. I was using FTT's, but the gun has done very well with the AA pellets I want to use up. It also seemed to calm the spring noise down compared to the H&N pellets.
I prefer the HW97 platform while benched, but the HW95 is nicer to carry and shoot off hand. It is very comparable to my D34, but I like the HW95 stock a bit more being a bit meatier. The 34 is awfully thin and feels more muzzle heavy in comparison. I do enjoy them both, but with the moderator the 95 will get more use. With open sights, both are equally accurate with me shooting. I can ring a 2.5" spinner at 50 yards very easily. If my eyes/glasses were better I bet the 1.25" would be possible, but can't reliably see it. (Also the spinners need repainting)
I'll have to learn how to disassemble the 95 when the time comes. I suspect by the time I shoot the four tins of 10.3gr. pellets I may need a new spring. Time will tell.
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I ended up ordering a HW95 .177 with the basic stock and a slip on moderator. It was an unnecessary purchase but I'm glad I made it. Recieved it a few days ago, cleaned the gunk out of the barrel and have been getting to know it the last couple days. The leade/chamber isn't tight nor loose. It has done very well with a veriety of pellets, and I've been using open sights. To get the most from it I'd have to scope it.
Using some recently discovered Air Arms 10.3gr. "4.52mm" pellets (that didn't really spec 4.52mm) from the back of a closet shelf, this gun does very well. I was using FTT's, but the gun has done very well with the AA pellets I want to use up. It also seemed to calm the spring noise down compared to the H&N pellets.
I prefer the HW97 platform while benched, but the HW95 is nicer to carry and shoot off hand. It is very comparable to my D34, but I like the HW95 stock a bit more being a bit meatier. The 34 is awfully thin and feels more muzzle heavy in comparison. I do enjoy them both, but with the moderator the 95 will get more use. With open sights, both are equally accurate with me shooting. I can ring a 2.5" spinner at 50 yards very easily. If my eyes/glasses were better I bet the 1.25" would be possible, but can't reliably see it. (Also the spinners need repainting)
I'll have to learn how to disassemble the 95 when the time comes. I suspect by the time I shoot the four tins of 10.3gr. pellets I may need a new spring. Time will tell.
Congrats Zack
Nice gun.The spring should last longer than that. Shoot it like you stole it. Have fun and worry about fixing it when it's actually broken.
Enjoy!
Ron
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Zack, thanks for reminding me. I've spent so much time lately with my newest 30 and 50S', I've totally ignored my 97K and Diana 34.
No agenda for tomorrow and it appears the rain is let up, I'll break out these two frauleins for a few shots each.
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Congrats on a great HW, Zack. I finally broke down and got the HW95L (R9) after many years of prompting by folks on this forum and chose it for the same reasons you chose your R9. Offhand/no rest is the way I do 90% of my springer shooting and the 95L with a scope is just light enough to be doable for me, shooting without a rest. Gave me the power level of my 97Ks, but in a gun I could at least shoot without a rest.
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My, John in PA tuned, Beeman R9 is indeed a thing of beauty. She shoots pretty good, too. She wears Williams peep sights and is shot off of the bench
under our patio cover.
Great choice, Zack!
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I have no springer right now, but I intend to get a silver HW30 in .177 when they become available again ;D
It appears Mr. Greg is so enamored, and it does make me curious ;D
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Thanks Joanie. These HW95/R9 guns have a very nice balance of power to weight also. In my opinion they are in the "Goldilocks" zone. Not too much for longer shooting sessions, but not on the light end of power either.
Mine currently puts out 14.8fpe with the AA 10.3's (805fps average). Shot over chrony it earlier today. ES of 9 fps over ten shots.
Oldgringo, got to give all those frauliens some love ;)
That R9 with peeps sounds great!
Like Bayman said, I'll "shoot it like I stole it", as I foresee this going on many adventures. After reading some heavy pellets to spring life span posts, my mind is at ease. Springs are cheap and easy enough to change when the time comes. Just bought into the gas ram hype a little too much, thinking coil springs would fail much quicker. I've already (personally) debunked the "gas rams are (up to) 70% quieter" saying, and others with the rifle being cocked over long periods. Got to give respect to the marketing reps for great sales pitches ;)
Thanks for reading, take it easy.
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I'll have to learn how to disassemble the 95 when the time comes. I suspect by the time I shoot the four tins of 10.3gr. pellets I may need a new spring. Time will tell.
Nice choice Zack!
Based on my recent experience I think you'll probably need to worry more about your piston seal than your spring. This past weekend I installed an ARH kit because after 1500+ pellets my 4 month old HW95L started to shoot a bit "odd". I can't describe it better than that. I just noticed that it was different. The OEM spring looked just fine and the velocities I was getting were still good, but the piston seal was developing cracks and was on its last legs I think. I am not sure why this may have happened. Perhaps it was shooting a bunch of (20-30) really lightweight alloy pellets awhile back.
Good luck and have fun!
Tony
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I'll have to learn how to disassemble the 95 when the time comes. I suspect by the time I shoot the four tins of 10.3gr. pellets I may need a new spring. Time will tell.
Nice choice Zack!
Based on my recent experience I think you'll probably need to worry more about your piston seal than your spring. This past weekend I installed an ARH kit because after 1500+ pellets my 4 month old HW95L started to shoot a bit "odd". I can't describe it better than that. I just noticed that it was different. The OEM spring looked just fine and the velocities I was getting were still good, but the piston seal was developing cracks and was on its last legs I think. I am not sure why this may have happened. Perhaps it was shooting a bunch of (20-30) really lightweight alloy pellets awhile back.
Good luck and have fun!
Tony
These 2 seals came out of new, (less than a year old), HW95s with about 1.5K shots. I think Weihrauch may have changed their grease/oiling procedure at the factory. My 95 did the exact same thing with the POI.
(https://i.imgur.com/DXjWwj3l.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/p4th2fpl.jpg)
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I'll have to learn how to disassemble the 95 when the time comes. I suspect by the time I shoot the four tins of 10.3gr. pellets I may need a new spring. Time will tell.
Nice choice Zack!
Based on my recent experience I think you'll probably need to worry more about your piston seal than your spring. This past weekend I installed an ARH kit because after 1500+ pellets my 4 month old HW95L started to shoot a bit "odd". I can't describe it better than that. I just noticed that it was different. The OEM spring looked just fine and the velocities I was getting were still good, but the piston seal was developing cracks and was on its last legs I think. I am not sure why this may have happened. Perhaps it was shooting a bunch of (20-30) really lightweight alloy pellets awhile back.
Good luck and have fun!
Tony
Tony the lightweight pellets don't help but it seems the newer 95s are using the old design thick lipped seal and they can't handle the excess lube the factory seems to be using now. They had those seals years ago then went to a thin lipped seal and then back again. People have their favorites I like the Vortek piston seals. Your POI will start to wander before your Weihrauch seal completely let's go. Then you'll know it time to order a seal and a tube of krytox.
HTH, reach out to me if you have any questions.
Ron
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I'll have to learn how to disassemble the 95 when the time comes. I suspect by the time I shoot the four tins of 10.3gr. pellets I may need a new spring. Time will tell.
Nice choice Zack!
Based on my recent experience I think you'll probably need to worry more about your piston seal than your spring. This past weekend I installed an ARH kit because after 1500+ pellets my 4 month old HW95L started to shoot a bit "odd". I can't describe it better than that. I just noticed that it was different. The OEM spring looked just fine and the velocities I was getting were still good, but the piston seal was developing cracks and was on its last legs I think. I am not sure why this may have happened. Perhaps it was shooting a bunch of (20-30) really lightweight alloy pellets awhile back.
Good luck and have fun!
Tony
Tony the lightweight pellets don't help but it seems the newer 95s are using the old design thick lipped seal and they can't handle the excess lube the factory seems to be using now. They had those seals years ago then went to a thin lipped seal and then back again. People have their favorites I like the Vortek piston seals. Your POI will start to wander before your Weihrauch seal completely let's go. Then you'll know it time to order a seal and a tube of krytox.
HTH, reach out to me if you have any questions.
Ron
Here is the progression for the old HW95 piston seal to the newer ones. Pics taken 2 years ago............
(https://i.imgur.com/SJBTo92.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/DCnUGNM.jpg)
Anywhoo.......unless HW has reverted back to the older "thin parachute edge seals" since the purchase of my HW95 4 years ago they are still using the "thick parachute edge design"...........
(https://i.imgur.com/l8IxFiP.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/6NUlm1P.jpg)
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Current OEM HW95 seal.
(https://i.imgur.com/Npg4lcLh.jpg)
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Current OEM HW95 seal.
(https://i.imgur.com/Npg4lcLh.jpg)
Yeah that's the old style fat lipped seal they went back to.
Ed, all my Weihrauchs purchased from 2015 to Gwen's Hw30 a few weeks ago all have the thin parachute seals. Apparently they flip flop between designs. I've only seen the thick lip one's that I thought was the older style just recently on a few new hw95s that had problems with erosion problems.
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Current OEM HW95 seal.
(https://i.imgur.com/Npg4lcLh.jpg)
Yeah that's the old style fat lipped seal they went back to.
Ed, all my Weihrauchs purchased from 2015 to Gwen's Hw30 a few weeks ago all have the thin parachute seals. Apparently they flip flop between designs. I've only seen the thick lip one's that I thought was the older style just recently on a few new hw95s that had problems with erosion problems.
Very interesting for sure! One of the reasons I started cutting my own oring sealed piston caps was to replace the "thin parachute edged piston seals" because they made my .177 R9 very "temperature sensitive" for late fall and early spring squirrel hunting in West Virginia when the mornings were cold and temps rose about 30 degrees during the hunt. I theorized that the wide lube and seal pressure was affected by changes in both lube viscosity (when I was using molly lubes) and piston seal durometer. Also the thin edged parachute seal sapped velocity at a time when I was using duplex reticled scopes and holdover aiming while trying to get about 910fps from 7.9 grain crosman Premiers WITHOUT going to a stiff heavy wire spring.
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Yeah Ed. I believe that you are right about the thin ones sapping energy. I've used the Weihrauch and JM seals with the thin lip. They must expand tighter against the bore. I guess is the purpose of the design as to improve sealing. Running a cupped Vortek seal I've always picked up power over the thin lipped seals. Interestingly the bigger the bore, the bigger the difference is. It's not much on a 25mm Hw30 but it's more on a 26mm and it was quite a bit on my 30mm RX1.
Gwen's Hw30 was dieseling quite a bit and needed to be degreased. It didn't seem to be grossly over lubed but there was quite a bit of grease forward the piston seal. Perhaps these things aren't being assembled correctly. Seems to be a rash of relatively new guns burning up piston seal and even detonating. Current OEM HW95 seal.
(https://i.imgur.com/Npg4lcLh.jpg)
Yeah that's the old style fat lipped seal they went back to.
Ed, all my Weihrauchs purchased from 2015 to Gwen's Hw30 a few weeks ago all have the thin parachute seals. Apparently they flip flop between designs. I've only seen the thick lip one's that I thought was the older style just recently on a few new hw95s that had problems with erosion problems.
Very interesting for sure! One of the reasons I started cutting my own oring sealed piston caps was to replace the "thin parachute edged piston seals" because they made my .177 R9 very "temperature sensitive" for late fall and early spring squirrel hunting in West Virginia when the mornings were cold and temps rose about 30 degrees during the hunt. I theorized that the wide lube and seal pressure was affected by changes in both lube viscosity (when I was using molly lubes) and piston seal durometer. Also the thin edged parachute seal sapped velocity at a time when I was using duplex reticled scopes and holdover aiming while trying to get about 910fps from 7.9 grain crosman Premiers WITHOUT going to a stiff heavy wire spring.
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Yeah Ed. I believe that you are right about the thin ones sapping energy. I've used the Weihrauch and JM seals with the thin lip. They must expand tighter against the bore. I guess is the purpose of the design as to improve sealing. Running a cupped Vortek seal I've always picked up power over the thin lipped seals. Interestingly the bigger the bore, the bigger the difference is. It's not much on a 25mm Hw30 but it's more on a 26mm and it was quite a bit on my 30mm RX1.
Gwen's Hw30 was dieseling quite a bit and needed to be degreased. It didn't seem to be grossly over lubed but there was quite a bit of grease forward the piston seal. Perhaps these things aren't being assembled correctly. Seems to be a rash of relatively new guns burning up piston seal and even detonating. Current OEM HW95 seal.
(https://i.imgur.com/Npg4lcLh.jpg)
Yeah that's the old style fat lipped seal they went back to.
Ed, all my Weihrauchs purchased from 2015 to Gwen's Hw30 a few weeks ago all have the thin parachute seals. Apparently they flip flop between designs. I've only seen the thick lip one's that I thought was the older style just recently on a few new hw95s that had problems with erosion problems.
Very interesting for sure! One of the reasons I started cutting my own oring sealed piston caps was to replace the "thin parachute edged piston seals" because they made my .177 R9 very "temperature sensitive" for late fall and early spring squirrel hunting in West Virginia when the mornings were cold and temps rose about 30 degrees during the hunt. I theorized that the wide lube and seal pressure was affected by changes in both lube viscosity (when I was using molly lubes) and piston seal durometer. Also the thin edged parachute seal sapped velocity at a time when I was using duplex reticled scopes and holdover aiming while trying to get about 910fps from 7.9 grain crosman Premiers WITHOUT going to a stiff heavy wire spring.
Ron,
I believe that Weihrauch guns are greased at the factory to sit on the shelf for 2+ years and not rust. I do not believe that they are greased to be shot right away...
A few years ago, Air Arms had issues with rusty barrels. Nobody want tospend $700-800 on a gun with a rusty barrel! ;)
-Y
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After spending some time with the Weihrauch's I was able to acquire, I just wanted to report back. I find myself reaching for the .177 HW97 KT synthetic (Blackline?) the most. The stock being a synthetic material I don't stress about any nicks or dings. I've taken it on a few outings and the weight becomes noticeable after a while, especially in hilly areas. It wears a Weihrauch moderator, though it's not necessary and added length isn't the best in the woods but is still manageable.
The laminated HW97K .22 still amazes me every time I look at it. The heavy optic and beautiful stock keep me from venturing too far from the deck. My fingers much prefer the larger pellets, and the barrel has been fantastic with CPHP 14.3's. H&N or JSB's may do better but the Crosman's fulfill my needs to just past 50 yards on targets, spinners and cans.
The HW95 has a 16mm Weihrauch moderator that allows the use of open sights. Until recently (last night) I've been using the opens for plinking mostly. Light, Quiet, powerful and accurate make it very versatile but my eyesight was holding this airgun back. Mounted a 3-9X32 scope with low mount rings. Seems to do well with a veriety of pellets and now it's scoped, it may get more use, especially being lighter than the HW97.
Luckily haven't had any stock screw issues yet. Check them during and after every shooting session for loosening. Aside from optics and moderators, these are out-of-box stock. Which brings me to Rekord trigger. In adjustment of pull weight, how far should I adjust the screw each time? (1/2, 1/4 or 1/8 turn CC per go?)
My fingers aren't the best, not concerned with travel or creep. Still want factory sear engagement setting. Just wanting to reduce pull weight a touch. Usually I leave triggers as is from factory but the HW95 trigger pull seems to be slightly heavier than the HW97's triggers.
Thank you in advance. Take it easy.
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I do 1/2 turns until getting close then 1/4 to dial it in to my liking.
1/8 turn I would need to use my trigger pull gauge to judge
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. Usually I leave triggers as is from factory but the HW95 trigger pull seems to be slightly heavier than the HW97's triggers.
I have found a fairly wide variation in my Weihrauch’s factory trigger settings. Like you I generally keep them as is but have had to tweak a few. Great triggers all though.
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Thanks for the replies!
Hopefully the weather allows me to dial in the trigger a bit.
Take it easy.
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After spending some time with the Weihrauch's I was able to acquire, I just wanted to report back. I find myself reaching for the .177 HW97 KT synthetic (Blackline?) the most. The stock being a synthetic material I don't stress about any nicks or dings. I've taken it on a few outings and the weight becomes noticeable after a while, especially in hilly areas. It wears a Weihrauch moderator, though it's not necessary and added length isn't the best in the woods but is still manageable.
I love the look of the wood stocks, but the look of the two I have are a testament to my unworthiness. I just can’t have nice things.