GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Machine Shop Talk & AG Parts Machining => Topic started by: scion19801 on April 25, 2021, 07:39:43 PM
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I just scored a very nice deal on a south bend model A 9" with 4 foot bed. missing a few parts, but have some new goodies on order to get it up and running.
got both the 3 jaw, and 4 jaw chucks. got a collet assortment set. had the taper attachment. power feed cross slide. has a steady rest as well. the tool post is the old lantern style and seems to be missing the curved key that goes under the tool bits. but I got a axa quick change that I hope works out better in rout. I cant wait to get it going and start making chips with it.
need to get some lubricating oils for it as well. nice unit. under mounted v belt driven motor. it runs fairly well, but just notice a clunking noise when the transposing gears are activated. got to source where that is coming from.
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Wow! And a quick-change gearbox! Very nice! A long way up the ladder from my mini-lathe.
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Drooling... Good score! :D
Jesse
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The axa tool post will be a big improvement. You'll probably want an assortment of tool blocks including at least two or three standard holders.
Do you have a tail stock drill chuck? That's is also very useful.
9" South Bend is the standard for the older high quality hobby sized lathes. I've got a less common 11" (precursor to heavy 10"). I've had it for about 20 years and I like it a lot.
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Congratulations on your acquisition! I have the same lathe. Runs pretty good. A noise can come from the spindle lock pin when running open belt as the drive belt goes from pulling to pushing the spindle around. Not really a problem, just a little annoying. This is pretty common on heavily used lathes. And yes, you will like the AXA
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Good for you! I am excited for you! Possibilities are endless now.
Keep us updated.
Dave
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In case you have not found this:
http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgIndex/detail.aspx?id=1617&tab=3 (http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgIndex/detail.aspx?id=1617&tab=3)
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The axa tool post will be a big improvement. You'll probably want an assortment of tool blocks including at least two or three standard holders.
Do you have a tail stock drill chuck? That's is also very useful.
9" South Bend is the standard for the older high quality hobby sized lathes. I've got a less common 11" (precursor to heavy 10"). I've had it for about 20 years and I like it a lot.
Yes I have a tail stock drill chuck. Has a nice assortment of 3c collets as well. Has a 1/2 hp 110 volt motor under the cabinet. Not sure if it’s original or not. I’ve heard the axa mounting plate must be machined to fit the t-slot in the cross slide. So that may be interesting.
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The axa tool post will be a big improvement. You'll probably want an assortment of tool blocks including at least two or three standard holders.
Do you have a tail stock drill chuck? That's is also very useful.
9" South Bend is the standard for the older high quality hobby sized lathes. I've got a less common 11" (precursor to heavy 10"). I've had it for about 20 years and I like it a lot.
Yes I have a tail stock drill chuck. Has a nice assortment of 3c collets as well. Has a 1/2 hp 110 volt motor under the cabinet. Not sure if it’s original or not. I’ve heard the axa mounting plate must be machined to fit the t-slot in the cross slide. So that may be interesting.
Pretty sure the 1/2 hp was standard. Have a 1 hp in mine. And yes, the t-nut plate has to be machined. Made a new one from some 4140 steel shaped like a t-nut for additional strength. If you have problems getting the nut pm me.
Keith
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ty. I may do that. I don't have a milling machine which would be the best way to do the t-nut. plus without having the axa tool mount in hand I can't even look for one as the seller didn't list the bolt thread size on the listing.
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I think this may be a 10" that the guy thought was a 9 and so did I. according to the numbers at the tail stock on the bed. "9758 KKR 7"
looking through the at known serials with KKR in them they are all listed as a light 10"
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awesome find.. Ive seen some for sale here and there.. The most common thing missing is guess what ?? the quick change gear box.. Which imo makes the machine almost worthless but the sellers dont know that..congrats
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yeah. but even a manual lathe is better than none sometimes. I was surprised to see it was power cross feed as well. now I just need to see what i need to do so that I can get metric threading done. and learn threading in general. got lots of ideas that can come to be, now that I have a lathe. gonna be a hard wait to get the rest of the parts here that i need to be able to start putting it to use.
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. Yep. When I'm looking at them I'm looking at a second lathe. But yes any lathe is a massive advantage for air gunners.
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When are you supposed to get the axa?
Do you have any tooling as far as bits and such? Indicator/mag base?
Yeah, bet your anxious. I’d be finding some chunks of steel to slip in the lantern to try the ol machine out!
Dave
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axa should be here in a week or so.
just got a mag base and dial indicator set with a test indicator as well.
right now I'm doing some cleanup work as the cross feed had a huge amount of play. like .85", when moving the handle from bump to bump. tightened up the bronze screw and i just about eliminated a little more than half of that. in the area of .30' now. had to adjust the gibs for excessive tight gib on the compound slide. i have oils coming as well to get everything super clean and re-oiled.
next up will be sourcing some scrap metal round stock to get used to everything, and do a test of making a bullet shaped d reamer to hopefully get some different slugs running. my 4 cavity blank mold should be here soon from NOE.
biggest "ouch" is the prices for a machinist level. need to make sure the machine is fully leveled where i have it so that things stay straight and true.
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I wouldn’t get too worried about the level part just yet. If you get it set nice and solid and turn a piece of stock without a taper, you’ll be just fine. A lathe doesn’t need to be ‘level’, it just needs to be level with itself. Meaning the bed doesn’t need to be twisted.
Sounds like the crossfeed has some slack where the leadscrew runs through the saddle, maybe.
Dave
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yep. it the cross feed nut. i think it may have a replacement in one of the draws. i know the feed screw hole for it is slightly off center and had seen where this one is as well. so guessing its for that. i'll get a test on it before i go tearing it out to replace it.
yeah i just did a quick and dirty level with a 3 foot level that i trust. things look pretty good. so it'll come down to if it get a taper or a parallel, then go from there.
gonna be a long week. i'm reading and learning all i can mean time.
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Says this used to cost 50 cents: http://www.vintagemachinery.org/pubs/1617/3789.pdf (http://www.vintagemachinery.org/pubs/1617/3789.pdf)
And then there is this on screw threads: https://wewilliams.net/docs/1936%20-%20How%20to%20Cut%20Screw%20Threads%20in%20the%20Lathe%20-%20Bulletin%2036A.pdf (https://wewilliams.net/docs/1936%20-%20How%20to%20Cut%20Screw%20Threads%20in%20the%20Lathe%20-%20Bulletin%2036A.pdf)
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ok.. so now I'm positive this is a 10k lathe. and it seems that the back gearing is where my noise is coming from. the shaft system seems tight, but once engaged it gets quite noisy.
so not sure of the cause. and I see the gibs oilers for the main head case bearings are not present. do these have wicks in the holes? need to get some oiler caps to get put in place.
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Open style back gears are generally real noisy. They aren’t used much either. Maybe for turning large od’s or thread cutting.
What kind of speed control does that style of lathe have?
Dave
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it has top 4 slot v groove and bottom 4 slot v groove pulleys. issue I seem to have is getting the belt out of the top pulley close to the chuck. it has a replacement linked belt. so it seems its hanging up on the edges of the v groove pulley. need to figure that out.
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Yeah, the linked belts are a little thicker but oddly they run smoother than a regular belt.
Dave
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Man trying to locate two 90* gits oiler to fit the head stock are proving to be impossible to find. any one got any alternative ideas?
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What thread size?
Dave
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that's part of my issue. I can seem to find much info to even be able to get thread size to get replacements. I know I have the S.B. 10k lathe with the under mount motor and v belt drive setup. looks like the original part number could be, P T2676NK I.
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If it’s threaded, it’s probably a common npt pipe thread size. 1/4” or 1/8” is a guess. Can you post a pic with a quarter or dime beside the hole for reference?
Dave
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I believe 5/16-32
Look here: https://www.gitsmfg.com/style-l-elbow-threaded/ (https://www.gitsmfg.com/style-l-elbow-threaded/)
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Measures the hole with inside caliper gives me around .277”.
I’ll get a pic of it tomorrow. Found a source to get the hydraulic b( vg 32) and c( vg 68) oils locally. They only come in 5 gallon pails :(. Fluid enough for a long, long time.
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Measures the hole with inside caliper gives me around .277”.
I’ll get a pic of it tomorrow. Found a source to get the hydraulic b( vg 32) and c( vg 68) oils locally. They only come in 5 gallon pails :(. Fluid enough for a long, long time.
Sounds like the minor diameter of a 5/16-32. Check the thread pitch with some modeling clay on a nail or stick to get an impression. Should be able to get the oil in gallon jugs from a tractor supply or such.
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Measures the hole with inside caliper gives me around .277”.
I’ll get a pic of it tomorrow. Found a source to get the hydraulic b( vg 32) and c( vg 68) oils locally. They only come in 5 gallon pails :(. Fluid enough for a long, long time.
No need to buy the S/B oils in 5 gal buckets. There are Ebay venders selling it in pints which last a long time for hobby use.
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Man trying to locate two 90* gits oiler to fit the head stock are proving to be impossible to find. any one got any alternative ideas?
You can thread a 1/8 brass 90 street elbow and put a plug in the open end to keep chips out.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-1-8-in-MIP-x-1-8-in-FIP-90-Degree-Brass-Street-Elbow-Fitting-802199/300096106 (https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-1-8-in-MIP-x-1-8-in-FIP-90-Degree-Brass-Street-Elbow-Fitting-802199/300096106)
I did not look up your serial number, but there is a good possibility that your lathe was converted from flat belt.
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I was considering doing just that with two brass 90* elbows. do you know if the holes should be empty behind those side headstock oil ports? in rebuild kits I've seen some longer wicks with springs around them, but they appear to be located around the bronze bushings deeper inside the main gears. wanting to make sure nothing is overlooked and that I'll be all set to run this. that is once I get my AXA tool post which seems to be held up locally at my FedEx post.
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ok. so I got some 1/8 x 1/8 brass elbows. they seemed to fit OK. got some small brass caps and lubed the spindle. so now I feel better and had some oil coming back out the bleed holes as well, but that's ok as I wanted to flood them and ran the lathe in both forward and reverse for a bit. Things are looking good to get up and running and making chips.
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AXA tool post has arrived. got the measurement from my cross slide to begin fitting and making a compatible t-nut to fit. contacted seller as the 250-107 parting tool holder has a damaged adjusting nut. it was machined improperly and sits angled on the change adapter. worst case I try to make a new adjuster to fit properly.
getting close to making chips now.
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tool post is now mounted. took my time and hand made my t-nut. worked out pretty good. nice and strong and rigid. now for my stock to arrive.
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You getting any pictures as you go?
Dave
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yes. I'll get some pic posted up tomorrow. currently have my independent 4 jaw chuck soaking in a white vinegar bath to eliminate some surface rust that was badly built up on it.
mail person decide to not deliver mail today due to construction on road. so hopefully tomorrow, my brass and aluminum stock will arrive. my 20 and 30 weight oils are a few days out yet. got my 01 tool steel stock today as well. just ordered the flat cutoff bars to use in my axa tool post. need to get some boring bars as well.
then I should have all I will need. need to do a severe de-rust of my collet set as well. be nice to find some transposing gears to do metric threading as well.
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here are some images. got my 4 jaw chuck cleaned up. and got my brass and aluminum rods today. collets are currently in the soak now.
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4 jaw cleaned up half way decent.
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that came out awesome !!
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Very nice. It takes some work to get the ol neglected girls shining again.
Dave
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You are not kidding there. Two day soak and a lot of elbow grease and scrubbing with oven cleaner to get it there. Light coat of oil back on the parts to prevent rust coming back with any luck. Now I just hope my collets clean up as nice as the 4 jaw did.
Got to find some small diameter mild steel to make my new hollow point pins from for the soon to be new 4 cavity mold. Gonna try to get them turned tomorrow with any luck. Should be able to get some rod at tractor supply or Lowe’s.
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Brass works too. Bolts/screws are a good source in a pinch.
Dave
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yeah!!! made some chips today. now to dial things in a bit more. I only got one hp pin. cursory check of my measurements and everything seems to have a taper to it. then I realized I was locking my cross slide as I cut in/narrowed the steel to diameter. and that might be where my taper came from. I do have the taper attachment. I thought I had it zeroed out so as not to cut tapers. Oopss. beginnings of the pin are still salvageable, as they came in a touch oversize. yet the taper could be good as the HP end should be tapered/angled some to promote release.
had my south bend bog down a few times. still not sure what is causing it. its almost like is running out of power. headstock felt a little warm but nothing extreme. lower pulley shafts felt cool. motor was warmer than the headstock. oiled everything, so not sure just yet of the cause. let it set for a bit and it was back to normal.
running HSS cutters on cold rolled steel. not sure what the grade of the steel is.it just listed as plain cr steel. 3/8" diameter is what I've been playing with. seems to get good at times and crappy at others. could be the weird cutters I got from fleabay. they're 3/8 square pre-shaped HSS. set of 8. took a bit to figure out which one to use. LOL. tons to learn yet.
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got the collet set all cleaned up. does this look like anything is missing as far as attaching and using them in the lathe? looks like I have a headstock reducer/adapter as well for Morse taper #2.
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there should be a puller/drawbar or cam device . that pulls the collet into the collet chuck.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/264837285787?hash=item3da988479b:g:jQUAAOSwrF1fPJ6B (https://www.ebay.com/itm/264837285787?hash=item3da988479b:g:jQUAAOSwrF1fPJ6B)
i think you have it ,but i dont see the collet chuck in your photos.
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I was thinking that the chuck was missing. Apparently the south bend doesn't need it and I have all the parts to use it. the draw bar is the wheel looking object in the upper right of the collet picture.
tightened my head stock belt, and things seem to be running better. Also had to adjust the level of my setup. I tried to make HP pins for my next mold and everything was tapered. I think I got it good to go now. I'm seeing .002" of runout at 16" from head stock while running and unsupported. dead center close to the headstock.
Had to go pick up my original Bob's Boat tail mold from the machine shop being decked shorter. That looks awesome and going to be casting some for testing tonight.
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I was thinking that the chuck was missing. Apparently the south bend doesn't need it and I have all the parts to use it. the draw bar is the wheel looking object in the upper right of the collet picture.
tightened my head stock belt, and things seem to be running better. Also had to adjust the level of my setup. I tried to make HP pins for my next mold and everything was tapered. I think I got it good to go now. I'm seeing .002" of runout at 16" from head stock while running and unsupported. dead center close to the headstock.
Had to go pick up my original Bob's Boat tail mold from the machine shop being decked shorter. That looks awesome and going to be casting some for testing tonight.
so the spindle taper is 5c ?? thats pretty awesome..
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not sure. I'm finding mixed info on the headstock. once source that I found said the headstock according to notes I took was supposed to be a Morse taper #2. and has a max collet of 5/8" and a supposed through hole of 27/32". I tried the Dead center for my tailstock which is #2 and its too small to fit the headstock. then the two tapers I picked up the live center ejects with no issue due to an adjustable screw on the rear. I have to pull the tail stock shaft to get the dead center out and its a bit too short. my drill chuck pops out with no issue.
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I don't think that the 10K uses 5C's as I believe the spindle bore is too small.
The spindle taper might be 4mt, for sure it is not anything smaller.
If you post to the South Bend lathe group I'm sure you will get all the answers you need.
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Ok, so it appears the headstock is mt3. The collets are 6k which are rare as hens teeth. There should be a pin in the spindle threads that is 1/8” in diameter to key the collets, but is usually snapped off on older machines. So no collet chuck needed and I seem to have all I need to use them. The pin that keys the collets will clear a normal mt3 center, but has a tendency to cause issues when trying to use the adapter to go down to a mt2 center.
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Ok, so it appears the headstock is mt3. The collets are 6k which are rare as hens teeth. There should be a pin in the spindle threads that is 1/8” in diameter to key the collets, but is usually snapped off on older machines. So no collet chuck needed and I seem to have all I need to use them. The pin that keys the collets will clear a normal mt3 center, but has a tendency to cause issues when trying to use the adapter to go down to a mt2 center.
pretty cool , never heard of them till now..
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new issue with lathe. seems like my headstock is going to have to be tore down and rebuilt. I tried to move up in rpm and is ran good for a few, then started to stall out. I could turn it my hand but it felt like it was binding up. I have oil flooded the bearings so that oiling shouldn't be an issue. thins occurred as I was attempting to turn hp pins using the collet system. Can the collet setup be too tight? so I loosened it and it still didn't want to turn it. I can rotate by hand no issue. then wondered if my belt could be too tight. Got to loosen it some and recheck. NO happy at present.
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If your 10K is like the 10L (Heavy Ten) and other S/B's it will have felt oil wicks that lube the spindle through capillary action . If these are dried out from old age or use your spindle will not get lubed. If you post your issues here https://groups.io/g/SouthBendLathe (https://groups.io/g/SouthBendLathe) you will most likely get plenty of replies along with sources for parts.
Yup, your lathe has the felt oilers. I'd advise you to not use the lathe until you fix the oiling issue, and check the bearing clearances as replacement bearings may be HARD to find.
https://www.amazon.com/South-Bend-Lathe-Rebuild-Kit/dp/B01K5253SG/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=south+bend+lathe+10K&qid=1620490031&sr=8-4 (https://www.amazon.com/South-Bend-Lathe-Rebuild-Kit/dp/B01K5253SG/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=south+bend+lathe+10K&qid=1620490031&sr=8-4)
The spindle oilers are the ones that are inside the wound springs.
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I thought something inside where the gits oilers attach was missing, since the gits caps were not there. I have been flooding them and my brass units are holding oil in there. After more checking today. it my undermount drive belt to head stock that is slipping bad. it doesn't want to grip the headstock pulleys very well. so I have a new link belt coming to replace it.
I will get the spring wound wicks to get in place as well.
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was able to get my new link belt installed today. lathe is running great now. original ordered net was 5' long. and a few inches short. i mistakenly measured deep inside the pulley's and didn't account for actual running depth. had to order another 1 foot section. now its all together.
next is to still deal with a bit of twist some place in the system. smaller diameter cuts close to head stock and larger a few inches away.