GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: prosportfan on February 19, 2019, 12:26:04 AM
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Reason I'm asking, a cousin of mine bought a box of 10.5gr domed 177cal Crosman Pellets in the brown box. Now I have the 7.9 cpl's and they do pretty good in my Prosport. But I feel that she may not like em. I am assuming that due to a quick test of heavy pellets like jsb, kodiak's and baracuda that I done about a week ago. She is shooting around 11.7-11.9ft/lb and just prefers AA Diabolo Fields. Have the 10.5gr crosmans work for any of you guys/gals?
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The box I purchased from Amazon in November would not group well in any rifle I own, not even from a LW barrel. Not a lot of obvious molding defects (parting lines, flashing, etc.) but head sizes are all over the place which doesn't really make sense to me for single die pellets.
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=150013.msg1534357#msg1534357 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=150013.msg1534357#msg1534357)
Shortly thereafter I ordered a box of the 7.9gr "lites" from Crosman. They mistakenly shipped a box of the heavies and that box was lackluster as well.
Crosman's good customer service being what it is, they sent me the lites but unfortunately those did not group well either.
I know some folks are quite happy with them but in my experience they do not meet the criteria of a quality pellet. Quite disappointing really because they don't even fare as well as the cheaper pellets in the tin just a few years ago.
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I've had a couple of guns like that like them, My TF97 is oddly one and my Benjamin 397 liked them before I cleaned the over spray out of the barrel. My Stoeger is kinda impartial, but they are okay I guess.
My summary would be this: it's a good one to have in your armory, just in case the odd gun likes it and it also makes plinking really fun. (When you hit something you really wallop it!)
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Reason I'm asking, a cousin of mine bought a box of 10.5gr domed 177cal Crosman Pellets in the brown box. Now I have the 7.9 cpl's and they do pretty good in my Prosport. But I feel that she may not like em. I am assuming that due to a quick test of heavy pellets like jsb, kodiak's and baracuda that I done about a week ago. She is shooting around 11.7-11.9ft/lb and just prefers AA Diabolo Fields. Have the 10.5gr crosmans work for any of you guys/gals?
I haven't used any 10.5 grain boxed Crosman Premiers, however when living in West Virginia "CP heavies" were the only pellet my brother shot from his .177 Beeman R9 for a couple years and he shot some fine groups with them..........
(https://i.imgur.com/QDfRViZl.jpg)
I don't know if the "heavies" have changed over the years but they were very accurate from my brother's gun 18 years ago.
No complaints with my last order of CPLs which were die "B"s dated Feb 3, 2014. I received 12 boxes of the CPLs dated Feb 3, 2014 on June 27, 2015 and now I'm down to 3 remaining boxes.......
(https://i.imgur.com/GhAG8F0l.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/KffbpLxl.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/9GsWzQ8l.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/u9c0bpAl.jpg)
CPLs have been my "go-to pellet" for a few decades from my .177 Beeman R9 and .177 HW95 (CPLs head sized for the tighter leade HW95).............
(https://i.imgur.com/eIKiookl.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/Lgs7wrAl.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/8SZm6IEl.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/v6Ug0yHl.jpg)
They even grouped well from a HW98 I worked on..........
(https://i.imgur.com/d5v1VdPl.jpg)
My older .177 Beeman R9 has a looser leade than my newer .177 HW95 so unsized CPLs straight from the box are accurate, however I found that I needed to resize my CPL heads a bit so loading and shooting them was less stressful on my "pressing into the leade loading finger". I later found that CPLs head sized to 4.50mm were accurate in both the R9 and HW95 yet didn't give "sore loading finger syndrome" when shooting from the tighter leade HW95 barrels.
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thank you you guys for your responses. I want to add something though. My prosport likes the AA 8.44gr 4.52mm...so far and the jsb 8.44gr 4.52 is a runner up. They both are loose when loading. Loose enough that there were times some of them fell out. Usually not the case but loose enough to make me double check the loading. Now I been having good results on the cpl from the brown box and they're pretty snug when loading. No where near the feel of the AA's/JSB's and the cpl's shoot pretty good. I always thought that there is some type of correlation when loose fitting and snug fitting pellets are concerned. Any opinions as to why I am getting good results with both pellets? Also, if the AA's & jsb's supposed to be 4.52mm and are loose loading, does that mean the cpl's are of a larger head diameter?
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I found some on Ebay, 10.5 gr,box of 1250. I bought them to have something a little heavier for critters.
I'm running these through a Winchester 1100, but they seem to work good in all of mine so far.
I am limited at the moment to indoor shooting into a trap. (C'mon summer!)
I do see a difference in point of aim when I also try the softer lead pellets. (Crosman are harder)
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I always thought that there is some type of correlation when loose fitting and snug fitting pellets are concerned. Any opinions as to why I am getting good results with both pellets?
As long as the head of the pellet is touching the rifling--riding the rails so to speak--that's all you need to ensure the pellet does not sit askew in the bore. It will therefore emerge from the muzzle on axis and flying true. Well, at least it has the opportunity to fly true.
Yrrah explains the concept here:
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/yellow/made-cpl-pellet-sizer-die-just-for-grins-t229826.html#p2546234 (https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/yellow/made-cpl-pellet-sizer-die-just-for-grins-t229826.html#p2546234)
I highly recommend reading it but it can almost be summarized by this one line "The important thing is to have the heads all the same so they will load the same and not be tipped in the process."
What he describes matches my experience. I used to think the pellet head needs to be distinctly engraved by the rifling. Eventually I pushed some of my best grouping pellets through my barrels and some were well engraved but others only showed their heads barely burnished by the rifling.
You may ask, well how does the pellet pick up the necessary spin? It's imparted by the skirt when it obturates (expands) from the burst of air.
Here's an interesting experiment, also by yrrah, that demonstrates why the commonly held belief that a particular head size is necessary...it's not that simple. Also a good read.
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/yellow/head-size-study-t231505.html (https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/yellow/head-size-study-t231505.html)
Bottom line, a tin of pellets sized consistently 4.49mm or a tin of pellets sized consistently 5.52mm both have a higher probability of grouping well than a tin of pellets that's nominally 5.52mm but has a distribution that varies from 5.50mm - 5.54mm.
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Also, if the AA's & jsb's supposed to be 4.52mm and are loose loading, does that mean the cpl's are of a larger head diameter?
JSB and AA pellets tend to measure on the small side in my experience, but they are also made from a softer lead than Crosman pellets so either one or both of those things will contribute to how hard or easy they are to press into the leade. But yes Crosman pellets also tend to measure large. I presume it's partly from continuing to use the dies past their useful life. Pellets get larger as the dies wear, and they also get more messy at the parting lines which will further contribute to how tightly they fit.
FWIW, I've had some modest success from tumbling Crosman pellets in a wire strainer to knock down the parting lines and help remove loose flashing.
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=134454.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=134454.0)
example photo:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=5514)
It's no magic wand, some are just too far gone to be helped but it may be something to experiment with if you're so inclined.
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thank you you guys for your responses. I want to add something though. My prosport likes the AA 8.44gr 4.52mm...so far and the jsb 8.44gr 4.52 is a runner up. They both are loose when loading. Loose enough that there were times some of them fell out. Usually not the case but loose enough to make me double check the loading. Now I been having good results on the cpl from the brown box and they're pretty snug when loading. No where near the feel of the AA's/JSB's and the cpl's shoot pretty good. I always thought that there is some type of correlation when loose fitting and snug fitting pellets are concerned. Any opinions as to why I am getting good results with both pellets? Also, if the AA's & jsb's supposed to be 4.52mm and are loose loading, does that mean the cpl's are of a larger head diameter?
"jsb's supposed to be 4.52mm and are loose loading"
I had the same issue when shooting supposedly 4.52mm Exacts from my .177 R9. Matter of fact, at one field target match I had two "dry fires" when shooting the Exacts. At first I thought I was simply forgetting to load the pellet, then I noticed a loose fitting Exact flipping out of the leade while I was relatching the break barrel. That incident started me on the long tedious trip of measuring the heads of about 3,500 Exacts. Anywhoo......the die lot marked and dated Crosman premiers from the 1250 count boxes are indeed larger than the largest JSB Exact from the supposedly 4.52mm marked tins. Here are some boxed CPLs taken from a die B box at random and measured............
(https://i.imgur.com/qbrnYqjl.jpg)
For decades I shot boxed CPLs straight from the box and they fit nicely snug in the leade of my older R9s. That changed when I bought a .177 HW95 and found that the leade was considerably tighter than the older R9. I bought a spare .177 HW95 barrel from the Canadian company when they were clearing out their HW parts inventory and found that the barrel from SSSO also had a tight leade like the barrel of my HW95. The unsized CPLs were still accurate from the tight leade HW95, however they fit tight enough that I had a sore loading finger after a long shooting session so I made up a couple pellet head sizers that reduced the CPL heads enough that they still fit snugly but not "finger hurtin' snug". After some trial and error I found that CPLs head sized to 4.50mm (as shown on my caliper readout) were accurate from both my tighter leade HW95 and looser leade R9.........
(https://i.imgur.com/aIhAApFl.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/lxTIvY1l.jpg)
Here is a pic of a few thousand measured supposedly 4.52mm JSB Exacts................
(https://i.imgur.com/5vGMBDxl.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/udeSRarl.jpg)
LOL...the sizes were all over the place with a small percentage actually measuring 4.52mm. Most measured 4.50mm & 4.51mm and there were a lot measuring 4.48mm & 4.49mm with one that measured 4.41mm! Kinda made me wonder why there was a pellet head size marked on the tin at all!!
Just for grins I tried to size the heads of supposedly 4.52mm JSB Exacts to 4.50mm and almost all Exacts simply dropped through the 4.50mm sizer without sizing at all!
You mentioned the Air Arms pellets:
I recently received a "buy 4 pay for 3" order of AA domes intended for use in the tight leade HW95 and when measuring a few I found that almost all read 4.51mm on my digital caliper readout. I then sized some using my 4.50mm sizer and shot a couple quick groups at 18 yards sitting on a bucket resting the HW95 on cross sticks. One group straight from the tin and the other with pellets sized with the 4.50mm die. Here was the result.......
(https://i.imgur.com/pYH35msl.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/ToROA6Vl.jpg)
The tighter "sized group" may have simply been "dumb luck" but I was encouraged enough to size all 2,000 AA Domes anyway.......
(https://i.imgur.com/OiGAzMnl.jpg)
One of the tins was dented and these pellets with "squished skirts" were in that tin...........
(https://i.imgur.com/dhnR9zOl.jpg)
Anywhoo......I haven't tried the AA domes at longer distances than 18 yards but if they group well at 50 yards I'll be shooting them instead of the CPLs.
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Crosman 10.5 Box domes do work better in several of my .177 guns. In fact, they are a close 4th place in my SPA PP700 out of 24 different pellets. Mind you, the Beeman Silver Jets are significantly better than everything, with JSB Heavies, the box CP domes, and Skenco Ultrashocks all about even- CP domes would be 2nd but I always have a flier unless I weigh/measure every pellet and sort accordingly, which I refuse to do on general principle. I will measure/weigh ten random pellets from every tin regardless of brand so I know what I'm getting into. Predator pellets in general remain far and away the most consistent. I'm lucky in that a number of my airguns like Predators, whether the lead-free GTOs, Polymags, or any of the others. I know from tin to tin I get very good consistency. Mind you, I don't buy the sheer quantity some folks here do.
I also convinced that a box or tin of pellets is better than none, because eventually you'll own something that likes them. BTW, one of my .177 Crosman barrels that did not like RWS pellets loves the 10.5 CP domes. All my other Crosman .177 barrels do like RWS pellets and are not keen on the 10.5 domes, but I'm not going to say if they like one they'll hate the other.
If you haven't already tried those CP domes, get a box and see how they work for you. 1250 pellets for less than $20 is a good deal even for chasing cans.
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I found some on Ebay, 10.5 gr,box of 1250. I bought them to have something a little heavier for critters.
I'm running these through a Winchester 1100, but they seem to work good in all of mine so far.
I am limited at the moment to indoor shooting into a trap. (C'mon summer!)
I do see a difference in point of aim when I also try the softer lead pellets. (Crosman are harder)
Matchstick I hope someone likes em and has something to trade lol
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Crosman 10.5 Box domes do work better in several of my .177 guns. In fact, they are a close 4th place in my SPA PP700 out of 24 different pellets. Mind you, the Beeman Silver Jets are significantly better than everything, with JSB Heavies, the box CP domes, and Skenco Ultrashocks all about even- CP domes would be 2nd but I always have a flier unless I weigh/measure every pellet and sort accordingly, which I refuse to do on general principle. I will measure/weigh ten random pellets from every tin regardless of brand so I know what I'm getting into. Predator pellets in general remain far and away the most consistent. I'm lucky in that a number of my airguns like Predators, whether the lead-free GTOs, Polymags, or any of the others. I know from tin to tin I get very good consistency. Mind you, I don't buy the sheer quantity some folks here do.
I also convinced that a box or tin of pellets is better than none, because eventually you'll own something that likes them. BTW, one of my .177 Crosman barrels that did not like RWS pellets loves the 10.5 CP domes. All my other Crosman .177 barrels do like RWS pellets and are not keen on the 10.5 domes, but I'm not going to say if they like one they'll hate the other.
If you haven't already tried those CP domes, get a box and see how they work for you. 1250 pellets for less than $20 is a good deal even for chasing cans.
Antisquirrel I got a almost gone brown box of cpl's which are pretty good in my Prosport. My cousin bought me a brown box of the 10gr crosman domed and my Prosport doesn't like em. Only used 25 of them and they're not for me lol
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Nervoustrigger washing them does seem like it helped you. Is there any household live that can be used to live em?
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work great in my thomas L... Head shots on gophers at 55 yards..... DRT....
But they are (at home anyway4700 ft...) on the razor thin margin for 20 ft lbs,,,,, and makes them dicey for FT work
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What did spell check do to your question? Live?
I honestly have no idea what word to insert in this mad lib :)
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Soap and clean is my guess.
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What did spell check do to your question? Live?
I honestly have no idea what word to insert in this mad lib :)
Lol my bad brother. Basically is there any household item that I can use for lube such as pledge?
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Oh okay...yeah I haven't used Pledge but it's one I see mentioned from time to time. If memory serves, that's one Ed (nced) used for a while. So long as you avoid a lube that promotes detonation, I think you'll be fine. I just prefer a dry lube so I grabbed a bottle of White Lightning (bicycle chain lube) which is fine wax particles suspended in solvent. When the solvent evaporates, there is nothing left that can detonate. I only use about 10-12 drops per 500ct tin so a bottle lasts a long time.
If you do decide to get some, note there is also a silicone type under the same name. Don't get that one.
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They do fine in my R1 and D52..
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Oh okay...yeah I haven't used Pledge but it's one I see mentioned from time to time. If memory serves, that's one Ed (nced) used for a while. So long as you avoid a lube that promotes detonation, I think you'll be fine. I just prefer a dry lube so I grabbed a bottle of White Lightning (bicycle chain lube) which is fine wax particles suspended in solvent. When the solvent evaporates, there is nothing left that can detonate. I only use about 10-12 drops per 500ct tin so a bottle lasts a long time.
If you do decide to get some, note there is also a silicone type under the same name. Don't get that one.
Nervoustrigger I just washed about 50 of em and all their shine is gone. Plus there are some very definitive lines going right around like how you pointed out in your pics. Woes is me, lol. Oh yeah, before washing I noticed my fingertips were very gray
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Yeah washing will leave a dull finish, it's a good idea to get a protective coating back onto them soon.
BTW the main thing I was after in that case was to tumble them and knock down the parting lines and flashing, not so much with the cleaning aspect.
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I like them. My BSA R10 really likes the 10.5gr L lot pellets. Measuring the head size they were around 4.9-4.5mm. The latest M lot pellets seem to be in the 4.54mm head size range and don't shoot as well out of the R10. I have not tried the M lot pellets in my other rifles yet. Whether L lot or M lot the ones I ran thru the PelletGauge were pretty consistant as far as head size goes and very rarely a dented skirt. I do wash brown box Crosman Premiers which is quick and easy. I use the slightest amount of Slick50 One Lube on them after washing to keep them from oxidizing. I skirt as tiny amount as possible in a ziplock samwhich bag, dump the pellets in the bag, and roll them around. As fast as I go them them I should probably skip the lube step as I, after a lot of testing, do not like lubing pellets as I find accuracy suffers.
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I like them. My BSA R10 really likes the 10.5gr L lot pellets. Measuring the head size they were around 4.9-4.5mm. The latest M lot pellets seem to be in the 4.54mm head size range and don't shoot as well out of the R10. I have not tried the M lot pellets in my other rifles yet. Whether L lot or M lot the ones I ran thru the PelletGauge were pretty consistant as far as head size goes and very rarely a dented skirt. I do wash brown box Crosman Premiers which is quick and easy. I use the slightest amount of Slick50 One Lube on them after washing to keep them from oxidizing. I skirt as tiny amount as possible in a ziplock samwhich bag, dump the pellets in the bag, and roll them around. As fast as I go them them I should probably skip the lube step as I, after a lot of testing, do not like lubing pellets as I find accuracy suffers.
Do you lube the whole box at 1 time?
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Yes. I open a new box and wash them all. Then let them dry. Then I put the whole box of pellets in a zip-lock with the slightest amount of Slick50 and pour them in. Then I just move them around in the bag until I feel the lube is well distributed. After that I pour however many pellets to fill a tin and leave the remainder in the zip-lock until I am ready for more in the tin.
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I will add this about the CPH pellets. 3-4 months ago I shot the best group from any kind of firearm/air arm I have ever shot and will never be able to shoot a better one as it was perfect. I had my BSA R10 MK2 I bought on sale from PA back in July. I was re-testing pellets, though initial tests indicated CPH as the best. I had just finished up with AA Heavies at 52 yards with a 1"+ group. Not bad. Then I opened up my tin of Brown box L lot CPH pellets. I shot 5 consecutive shots in the same hole. Not a ragged hole but the same hole. I watch each pellet as the hit the target. It was amazing. My jaw dropped. At that point I stopped so not to ruin it. Have I been able to do it again? No. But I find that CPH pellets out of my R10 shoot better than AA/JSB heavies, Barracuda Match, etc of various head sizes at distance. My Daystate CR-X likes them too and was my go to pellet but that rifle seems to like AA/JSB pellets better at longer distances of 50 yards. I have always found CPH and CPL to be very good pellets that work well in most rifles. Running thru the PelletGauge I also find them to have very consistant head sizes, in fact the most consistant when I test various pellets.
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Darn Brazos that's cool that your bsa likes em.
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"I also find them to have very consistent head sizes, in fact the most consistant when I test various pellets".
Same here for the die lot "B" 7.9 grain CPLs and the exceptionally large heads (4.53mm-4.55mm) makes it easy to size the heads down. Matter of fact, I found that when thse CPLs are "head sized" down to 4.50mm the are accurate in both my "loose leade" .177 R9 and "tight leade" .177 HW95 while they're especially accurate from a couple HW springers I shot when "head sized" to 4.48mm.......
Unsized die "B" CPLs dated Feb 3, 2014 measured at random............
(https://i.imgur.com/qbrnYqjl.jpg)
I did buy a few tins of 4.52mm 8.4 grain Air Arms domes and found that they also had very consistent head sizes measuring 4.51mm using my digital caliper unlike the tins of 4.52mm 8.4 grain JSB Exacts that had a small percentage measuring 4.52mm with most measuring between 4.49mm & 4.51 and a LOT smaller than 4.49mm.
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None of my rifles care for them.