Quote from: Bayman on May 10, 2022, 07:22:42 AMQuote from: triggerfest on May 10, 2022, 02:57:56 AMFirst of all... PCP's are not complicated. Even less complicated than springers. And don't have recoil.But you choose a springer. So if you still want recoil, then get the HW50s. Then you start to get annoyed by the recoil and start to tune it. Who says PCP's are complicated ? No need to tune, since no recoil. Btw the HW50s is quite noisy too. And has a learning curve to shoot. Who says PCP's are complicated ?The HW97k has very limited recoil. And is quiet for a springer. But heavy. You'll have to buy and attach a sling. The HW97k is easy to shoot and has hardly any learning curve. So if you want to go for a springer. The HW97k is your choice.Or consider the HW35 too. Has a lot of the HW97k characteristics, but then as break barrel.Not to be argumentative but a PCP rifle may not be complicated by itself but they are complicated to get into. I seriously considered them for a long time and the amount of information to digest and disseminate is huge. Especially if you don't want to hand pump. There's a lot to them and they do require maintenance, usually seals and some tuning. I'm well aware of the reality of them because I regularly shoot with a bunch of PCP guys at a local airgun range. I've shot them there too and I will say they are definitely more powerful, and easier to shoot accurately than springers. However they aren't a simple or cheap hobby to start if you are going to get a half decent gun and compressor. A Hw50 would be significantly less complicated and expensive. Also I have no experience with the Hw35. Can you tell me what 97 characteristics it has? I've never shot one.ThanksRonOkay you'll replace a worn out spring from your springer and I'll replace a seal from my PCP. Which one is easier and quicker to do according to you ?I have done both and the PCP wins hands down. And not complicated. I own three PCP with each a couple of thousands shots in about 4 years time and the only time btw I had to replace a seal is due to the fact I killed a seal myself with adding a regulator to them. Which, btw, only took me 10 mins all in all. Try to tune a springer to get more consistent shots comparable with a regulated PCP, that is close to rocket science !You springer guys have to stop thinking a PCP is complicated. All you need is a PCP airgun, a scuba bottle or hand pump and a filling adapter and you're done. Please don't come to me with the argument about hand pumping. If you do an extended shooting session in the afternoon with a springer you'll also have a tired arm. So it is a non argument.Believe me, I have been a hard core springer guy and I know all the arguments. Arguments that resides in peoples heads only. Again, PCP are way less complicated than a springer, in every aspect you can think of.Good... The HW97k and the HW35...Both are hefty airguns dampening the shot due to their weight and that makes the shot cycling more forgiving, so being less hold sensitive and more easy to shoot them accurate.As a bonus the HW35 has a shorter spring with a larger diameter and gives a very quick shot, so there is also less time be hold sensitive.
Quote from: triggerfest on May 10, 2022, 02:57:56 AMFirst of all... PCP's are not complicated. Even less complicated than springers. And don't have recoil.But you choose a springer. So if you still want recoil, then get the HW50s. Then you start to get annoyed by the recoil and start to tune it. Who says PCP's are complicated ? No need to tune, since no recoil. Btw the HW50s is quite noisy too. And has a learning curve to shoot. Who says PCP's are complicated ?The HW97k has very limited recoil. And is quiet for a springer. But heavy. You'll have to buy and attach a sling. The HW97k is easy to shoot and has hardly any learning curve. So if you want to go for a springer. The HW97k is your choice.Or consider the HW35 too. Has a lot of the HW97k characteristics, but then as break barrel.Not to be argumentative but a PCP rifle may not be complicated by itself but they are complicated to get into. I seriously considered them for a long time and the amount of information to digest and disseminate is huge. Especially if you don't want to hand pump. There's a lot to them and they do require maintenance, usually seals and some tuning. I'm well aware of the reality of them because I regularly shoot with a bunch of PCP guys at a local airgun range. I've shot them there too and I will say they are definitely more powerful, and easier to shoot accurately than springers. However they aren't a simple or cheap hobby to start if you are going to get a half decent gun and compressor. A Hw50 would be significantly less complicated and expensive. Also I have no experience with the Hw35. Can you tell me what 97 characteristics it has? I've never shot one.ThanksRon
First of all... PCP's are not complicated. Even less complicated than springers. And don't have recoil.But you choose a springer. So if you still want recoil, then get the HW50s. Then you start to get annoyed by the recoil and start to tune it. Who says PCP's are complicated ? No need to tune, since no recoil. Btw the HW50s is quite noisy too. And has a learning curve to shoot. Who says PCP's are complicated ?The HW97k has very limited recoil. And is quiet for a springer. But heavy. You'll have to buy and attach a sling. The HW97k is easy to shoot and has hardly any learning curve. So if you want to go for a springer. The HW97k is your choice.Or consider the HW35 too. Has a lot of the HW97k characteristics, but then as break barrel.
Quote from: triggerfest on May 10, 2022, 04:13:14 PMQuote from: Bayman on May 10, 2022, 07:22:42 AMQuote from: triggerfest on May 10, 2022, 02:57:56 AMFirst of all... PCP's are not complicated. Even less complicated than springers. And don't have recoil.But you choose a springer. So if you still want recoil, then get the HW50s. Then you start to get annoyed by the recoil and start to tune it. Who says PCP's are complicated ? No need to tune, since no recoil. Btw the HW50s is quite noisy too. And has a learning curve to shoot. Who says PCP's are complicated ?The HW97k has very limited recoil. And is quiet for a springer. But heavy. You'll have to buy and attach a sling. The HW97k is easy to shoot and has hardly any learning curve. So if you want to go for a springer. The HW97k is your choice.Or consider the HW35 too. Has a lot of the HW97k characteristics, but then as break barrel.Not to be argumentative but a PCP rifle may not be complicated by itself but they are complicated to get into. I seriously considered them for a long time and the amount of information to digest and disseminate is huge. Especially if you don't want to hand pump. There's a lot to them and they do require maintenance, usually seals and some tuning. I'm well aware of the reality of them because I regularly shoot with a bunch of PCP guys at a local airgun range. I've shot them there too and I will say they are definitely more powerful, and easier to shoot accurately than springers. However they aren't a simple or cheap hobby to start if you are going to get a half decent gun and compressor. A Hw50 would be significantly less complicated and expensive. Also I have no experience with the Hw35. Can you tell me what 97 characteristics it has? I've never shot one.ThanksRonOkay you'll replace a worn out spring from your springer and I'll replace a seal from my PCP. Which one is easier and quicker to do according to you ?I have done both and the PCP wins hands down. And not complicated. I own three PCP with each a couple of thousands shots in about 4 years time and the only time btw I had to replace a seal is due to the fact I killed a seal myself with adding a regulator to them. Which, btw, only took me 10 mins all in all. Try to tune a springer to get more consistent shots comparable with a regulated PCP, that is close to rocket science !You springer guys have to stop thinking a PCP is complicated. All you need is a PCP airgun, a scuba bottle or hand pump and a filling adapter and you're done. Please don't come to me with the argument about hand pumping. If you do an extended shooting session in the afternoon with a springer you'll also have a tired arm. So it is a non argument.Believe me, I have been a hard core springer guy and I know all the arguments. Arguments that resides in peoples heads only. Again, PCP are way less complicated than a springer, in every aspect you can think of.Good... The HW97k and the HW35...Both are hefty airguns dampening the shot due to their weight and that makes the shot cycling more forgiving, so being less hold sensitive and more easy to shoot them accurate.As a bonus the HW35 has a shorter spring with a larger diameter and gives a very quick shot, so there is also less time be hold sensitive.Nevermind you totally missed my point. You obviously didn't comprehend what I wrote. I didn't say PCPs were complicated to work on. I said they were complicated and expensive to get into. There's a lot of information to disseminate and a lot of support equipment to buy. They are far from easy and cheap to get into. By your own admission, you need a gun, a tank and a pump. I need a gun and pellets. Wait you need pellets too. In all fairness you can do without the tank and pump the gun directly. I shoot with PCP guys all the time, let's keep this real nobody in the hobby hand pumps their guns for long. It's a much bigger drag than cocking a springer and if you say it ain't, you're delusional. A half decent quality PCP will cost at least what a high end German springer will. Some cost nearly 3 times as much. Then you have to add a pump and eventually you'll probably want to add a scba tank and compressor. I know you like to argue with me. It's your thing. But you can't really argue that PCPs are cheap and easy to get into. It's a crazy rabbit hole that I've been down personally while researching getting one for myself.. There's alot to digest and buy. It's not an easy transition. I do thank you for the insight on the hw35. I look forward to handling and shooting one, one day.Let's get back to OPs original matter. Take careRon
Rudy, PCP guns are for people who want easy, I have owned several THEOBEN PCP from AZ over the yrs, I sold them because there to boring to shoot! and I didn't like having to pump them up after they ran out of air, I couldn't see buying a compressor or buying a buddy bottle to carry around in the woods or where needed to fill the rifle, The cost to me was not worth it! IMO, also you will lose your ability to shoot a spring gun going to the dark side! PCP's are nice but not for me and some of us here on this forum, I prefer a spring gun over anything out there! JMO
Look I hate the darkside, but this guy wants to hit small targets at 40 yards while he is stalking shooting freehand or supported. When I stalk I have about 2 seconds until the game that I am after sees/smells/senses my presence and scrams....So unless he is the best shot this side of Sy Pitman(that English bloke) he has no chance for an ethical kill with anything less than a 14-16 fpe gun. A PCP would be lighter, easier to shoot, quieter, and more likely for an ethical kill, all things he states as his objectives.-Y
Quote from: Yogi on May 10, 2022, 08:29:48 PMLook I hate the darkside, but this guy wants to hit small targets at 40 yards while he is stalking shooting freehand or supported. When I stalk I have about 2 seconds until the game that I am after sees/smells/senses my presence and scrams....So unless he is the best shot this side of Sy Pitman(that English bloke) he has no chance for an ethical kill with anything less than a 14-16 fpe gun. A PCP would be lighter, easier to shoot, quieter, and more likely for an ethical kill, all things he states as his objectives.-YStalking for me is not quite that difficult. I mentioned to someone else that fox squirrels are big, dumb, and slow. They don't move nearly as fast as grays and their preferred response to danger (me) is to freeze as high up in a tree as they can go and hope you can't see them. Little do they know that that gives me plenty of time to find something to rest against. If the tree is only a decent sized walnut or osage orange, the HW 30 or one of my pumpers works just fine. It's when they do their thing way up in the top of a big hickory or cottonwood tree that the extra range becomes necessary. The reason I bring this up is because I usually do have the time to aim carefully and can be successful with less power than you might think. I'm not Si Pittaway by any means but I am a pretty good shot.My other quarry is typically red squirrels, who are really small and fast. However, they outnumber the foxes by probably 10 to 1 so if one disappears there's always another 50 feet away!You might think reds aren't worth the trouble, but if they eat mostly walnuts like the ones around here they become the best tasting meat in the woods. You just have to shoot a whole bunch of them.
Quote from: HOSPassassin on May 10, 2022, 10:35:20 PMQuote from: Yogi on May 10, 2022, 08:29:48 PMLook I hate the darkside, but this guy wants to hit small targets at 40 yards while he is stalking shooting freehand or supported. When I stalk I have about 2 seconds until the game that I am after sees/smells/senses my presence and scrams....So unless he is the best shot this side of Sy Pitman(that English bloke) he has no chance for an ethical kill with anything less than a 14-16 fpe gun. A PCP would be lighter, easier to shoot, quieter, and more likely for an ethical kill, all things he states as his objectives.-YStalking for me is not quite that difficult. I mentioned to someone else that fox squirrels are big, dumb, and slow. They don't move nearly as fast as grays and their preferred response to danger (me) is to freeze as high up in a tree as they can go and hope you can't see them. Little do they know that that gives me plenty of time to find something to rest against. If the tree is only a decent sized walnut or osage orange, the HW 30 or one of my pumpers works just fine. It's when they do their thing way up in the top of a big hickory or cottonwood tree that the extra range becomes necessary. The reason I bring this up is because I usually do have the time to aim carefully and can be successful with less power than you might think. I'm not Si Pittaway by any means but I am a pretty good shot.My other quarry is typically red squirrels, who are really small and fast. However, they outnumber the foxes by probably 10 to 1 so if one disappears there's always another 50 feet away!You might think reds aren't worth the trouble, but if they eat mostly walnuts like the ones around here they become the best tasting meat in the woods. You just have to shoot a whole bunch of them.So you are shooting high up in trees? Well if you know your cosines and approximate angles you can figure out the distance that the pellet has to travel. That is the distance you you should be concerned about. Look get the HW 50 and if that doesn't work for you, sell it and get something else. Just buy a decent scope once! -Y
Someone-Hector maybe -told me that the Diana 350 and 460 are "field guns" meaning huntingBut no one here thinks they are suitable for this particular hunting-up to 50 yards shooting a tiny target-a squirrel On this forum-Less powerful guns-are suggested because they deliver small groups on paper with unlimited time between shots and with comfortable consistent shooting position On this thread someone mentioned that he/she only has 2-3 seconds before the prey detects him and bolts Diana probably knows/knew what they were doing when they designed their powerful springers as "field guns"Speed Kills-quicker the bullet gets there-the less time wind gravity animal movement will have to ruin shot