Vintage Daisy 856 refurbishing - valve stem options?
Select Gate
READ GTA FORUM RULES BEFORE POSTING
GTA Forum Help Desk
GTA Announcement Gate
Dealer Area
GRIP
AirgunWeb Airgun Videos
Airgun Repository of Knowledge
Vendors and Vendor Videos
AirGun Expo 2021
Airgun Expo 2022
Contests and Giveaways!!!
Welcome New Members
In Memoriam
GTA Contributing Members
Shot Show Videos
Hajimoto Productions
Airgun Detectives
Air Gun Gate
BB Guns and Such
"Bob and Lloyds Workshop"
American/U.S. Air Gun Gates
European/Asian Air Gun Gates
PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside"
Air Archery
Vintage Air Gun Gate
Air Guns And Related Accessories Review Gates
Hunting Gate
Machine Shop Talk & AG Parts Machining
3D printing and files
Buyer's, Seller's & Trader's Comments
Bargain Gate
Back Room
Target Shooting Discussion Gate
Target Match Rules
Shooting Match Gates
Field Target Gates
The Long Range Club
100 Yard Match
Discussions By States
Welcome,
Guest
. Please
login
or
register
.
Did you miss your
activation email
?
1 Hour
1 Day
1 Week
1 Month
Forever
Login with username, password and session length
Home
About
Help
Old GTA
Gallery
Search
Stats
Login
Register
Advertise Here
GTA
»
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General
»
American/U.S. Air Gun Gates
»
Daisy Gate
(Moderators:
GTA-Airgunner
,
Gertrude
) »
Vintage Daisy 856 refurbishing - valve stem options?
« previous
next »
Print
Pages: [
1
]
Go Down
Share This!
Author
Topic: Vintage Daisy 856 refurbishing - valve stem options? (Read 385 times))
Turbinator
Plinker
Posts: 172
yes
Real Name: Turbinator
Vintage Daisy 856 refurbishing - valve stem options?
«
on:
April 29, 2022, 11:50:34 AM »
Hi folks! Working on my vintage Daisy 856 pneumatic rifle, this is the version that has a rifled barrel, shoots both BB's and pellets. Brown fake wood stocks, black plastic, painted black stamped steel barrel. I'm the original owner, probably acquired it around 1990 or so. It wasn't pumping or holding air, so it was time to rip into this thing. Spent a bit of time on Google first doing research, then got out my tools and started.
Did a near-complete tear down, replaced 2 o-rings (bought the $8 pack from Harbor Freight, has over 300 o-rings of various sizes), got the abutment off with some pipe wrench help, and inspected the valve stem. Lubed up with some vintage Crosman Pellgun oil ($1.99 a tube for 1/4 ounce, bought from Big 5 many years ago), put everything back together, and was still experiencing a bad air leak from the valve chamber.
As an experiment, I took it down again and popped in a small o-ring to help boost the seal in the valve to help create a better seal for the valve stem. This works - for 1 round of pumping. With the o-ring installed, I can build up multiple pumps of air pressure, but upon discharge, I suspect the o-ring gets deformed or misaligned, and doesn't help hold pressure any longer after that.
My basic conclusion is that I need a new valve stem.... or I can soak this one in ATF for a few days to see if that helps. Going to try that next.
Looking around on the 'net, the valve stem appears to be discontinued, and I can't find any direct replacements anywhere.
I am thinking of getting out my calipers, measuring the dimensions, and checking if other valve stems from other air guns would fit - some of the Crosman replacement valve stems look similar in shape, though I'd need to double check dimensions.
I also see people making their own valve stems, though I'm not sure how I'd machine one and fashion the delrin material I see in use - I don't have the equipment to do this.
So - here's the question, finally... any suggestions as to what else to do to get this valve stem either replaced, or back up in working order?
Thanks!
Turby
Logged
USA, CA, NorCal
Turbinator
Plinker
Posts: 172
yes
Real Name: Turbinator
Re: Vintage Daisy 856 refurbishing - valve stem options?
«
Reply #1 on:
May 02, 2022, 01:37:42 AM »
Ok, taking a chance... JG Airguns sells a reseal kit -- "DAI850SK COMPLETE Seal Kit" which appears to contain the same valve stem design that the 856 uses. Hard to confirm, so the only way I can really test is to plunk down the money to give this a go. Just placed my order... will wait and see how this goes.
Turby
Logged
USA, CA, NorCal
jsk68
Marksman
Posts: 319
yes
Real Name: Jerry
Re: Vintage Daisy 856 refurbishing - valve stem options?
«
Reply #2 on:
May 02, 2022, 02:06:22 AM »
I don't know much about Daisy's, my friend had an 880 when we were kids, when searching online for your model I ran across this.
probably a non-issue but good to know anyway.
https://www.cpsc.gov/Newsroom/News-Releases/2003/CPSC-Files-Lawsuit-Against-Daisy-Manufacturing-Co-To-Recall-Two-Models-of-Daisys-Powerline-Airguns-Due-to-Defects
Logged
USA, WA, Selah
Turbinator
Plinker
Posts: 172
yes
Real Name: Turbinator
Re: Vintage Daisy 856 refurbishing - valve stem options?
«
Reply #3 on:
May 02, 2022, 01:51:21 PM »
Thanks for sharing. I reviewed that old article and noticed that the main "problem" with the 856 design, supposedly, is that a BB can become lodged in the loading mechanism, and then children can "play" with the BB gun and inadvertently shoot someone because the gun is still loaded.
Well, gosh, that pretty much violates all of the safety rules of safe handling, so.... you're right. It's a non-issue.
For the record, I've never seen any BB's get stuck or lodged in the loading mechanism for the two 856's I have.
Turby
Logged
USA, CA, NorCal
jsk68
Marksman
Posts: 319
yes
Real Name: Jerry
Re: Vintage Daisy 856 refurbishing - valve stem options?
«
Reply #4 on:
May 02, 2022, 03:55:18 PM »
Agreed, I was taught better than that. I remember the saying "it's the unloaded guns that kill people". looks like Daisy really caught *(&^ over this, I don't agree with that either, where do the parents and kids responsibility come in?
Logged
USA, WA, Selah
Ronno6
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 5037
yes
Real Name: Ron
Re: Vintage Daisy 856 refurbishing - valve stem options?
«
Reply #5 on:
May 04, 2022, 08:32:51 PM »
Nor sure, but I believe the 853 stem is similar...
Logged
USA, Stone County, MS
You can lead a man to water, but you can't keep him from urinating in it.
Turbinator
Plinker
Posts: 172
yes
Real Name: Turbinator
Re: Vintage Daisy 856 refurbishing - valve stem options?
«
Reply #6 on:
May 04, 2022, 08:52:58 PM »
Update - the kit for the 850 arrived. The valve stem looks exactly identical to the stem coming out of my old 856.
Popped in the new valve stem, fit is perfect.
Unfortunately, I'm still seeing a 100% leak of air out of the mechanism with every pump. Seems the air is coming out of the barrel, which suggests to me that the air is getting into the valve tube but the valve stem doesn't appear to be able to contain the pressure. But the problem certainly could be elsewhere, too.
Going to think about this some more.. open to suggestions!
Turby
Logged
USA, CA, NorCal
jsk68
Marksman
Posts: 319
yes
Real Name: Jerry
Re: Vintage Daisy 856 refurbishing - valve stem options?
«
Reply #7 on:
May 04, 2022, 09:02:34 PM »
Alcohol flush? This guy is an airgun smith, may be worth a try.
Logged
USA, WA, Selah
JMJ in NC
Sharp Shooter
Posts: 951
Real Name: John
Re: Vintage Daisy 856 refurbishing - valve stem options?
«
Reply #8 on:
May 04, 2022, 10:48:40 PM »
I rebuilt a 977 for a friend. It also had a leak, and I had to lap the valve seat to get it to seal correctly. It’s done with the stem in place, with valve lapping compound (Clover 1000) at the interface, and using a drill to spin the stem and provide some tension.
If this is what you need to do, I can probably find the detailed instructions for doing it properly.
JMJinNC
«
Last Edit: May 04, 2022, 10:58:07 PM by JMJ in NC
»
Logged
Hillsborough, NC
Turbinator
Plinker
Posts: 172
yes
Real Name: Turbinator
Re: Vintage Daisy 856 refurbishing - valve stem options?
«
Reply #9 on:
May 06, 2022, 09:46:56 AM »
Update:
User error. I looked closely and noticed the pump tube had probably inadvertently damaged the pump tube o-ring that I had installed - there were some small nicks in it. I replaced it, and decided to shim it up with some electrical tape. I actually ended up putting back in the original valve stem, as visually it didn't look that bad. Put some Pellgun oil on the new o-ring and put it all back together. It tests out just fine now, it pumps up and holds pressure and seems to be dry firing as expected. I'll do some actual tests with BB's soon, but for now it appears this vintage Daisy 856 is back in operation.
Lessons learned:
Be careful not to damage o-rings during installation, assembly, disassembly, and re-assembly. Seems obvious, but I didn't know these little nicks would cause a complete loss of pressure.
Glad I didn't have to try the alcohol flush, but thanks for that idea. I saw that video before and was going to use that as a last resort.
Also glad I didn't have to try lapping the valve stem to the valve, though that doesn't sound that difficult. I don't have any lapping compound, I was going to use some rubbing compound that I've used in the past to polish metal, I presume that would have worked just as well.
And finally, the Daisy 856 valve stem appears to be discontinued, but the Daisy 850 valve stem is the same one and looks like it'll work -- so if anyone is looking for a replacement valve stem, get that one.
Thanks all for reading, and for now, this airgun is all set.
Turby
Logged
USA, CA, NorCal
Print
Pages: [
1
]
Go Up
« previous
next »
GTA
»
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General
»
American/U.S. Air Gun Gates
»
Daisy Gate
(Moderators:
GTA-Airgunner
,
Gertrude
) »
Vintage Daisy 856 refurbishing - valve stem options?