GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Air Archery => Topic started by: Nomadic Pirate on January 31, 2020, 08:22:08 PM
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An arrow with a good broadheard is absolutely devastating, the ability to deliver an arrow with pintpoint precision is huge most of all in thick vegetation conditions where you are able to thread the needle through trees and saplings.
I got my 2 REX .357 set up to shoot the Air Bolt, to my complete surprise the POI within 20 yards is the same with the Bolts as it is with the JSB pellets and that is huge,...also I'm not interested in an Arrow launcher that it's solely and arrow launcher, I want the ability to shoot both arrows and lead.
Here is my 2 Arrow guns
(https://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/guns/DSCF2001_zpsgtlpbeoq.jpg) (https://s34.photobucket.com/user/NorthShoreLB/media/guns/DSCF2001_zpsgtlpbeoq.jpg.html)
the Mini-Carbine
(https://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/guns/DSCF1993_zpsxgb6t8qs.jpg) (https://s34.photobucket.com/user/NorthShoreLB/media/guns/DSCF1993_zpsxgb6t8qs.jpg.html)
(https://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/guns/DSCF1994_zpstxajhrmo.jpg) (https://s34.photobucket.com/user/NorthShoreLB/media/guns/DSCF1994_zpstxajhrmo.jpg.html)
Easily backpackable
(https://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/guns/DSCF1999_zpsbjsy00nc.jpg) (https://s34.photobucket.com/user/NorthShoreLB/media/guns/DSCF1999_zpsbjsy00nc.jpg.html)
Shooting a 349gr arrow at a staggering 475 fps
(https://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/DSCF2009_zpse7izk7ec.jpg) (https://s34.photobucket.com/user/NorthShoreLB/media/DSCF2009_zpse7izk7ec.jpg.html)
(https://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/DSCF2010_zpsamjoqr39.jpg) (https://s34.photobucket.com/user/NorthShoreLB/media/DSCF2010_zpsamjoqr39.jpg.html)
the rifle is shooting a 389gr arrow at 505 fps
(https://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/DSCF2012_zpswjspam41.jpg) (https://s34.photobucket.com/user/NorthShoreLB/media/DSCF2012_zpswjspam41.jpg.html)
(https://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/DSCF2013_zpsu7sjbzbd.jpg) (https://s34.photobucket.com/user/NorthShoreLB/media/DSCF2013_zpsu7sjbzbd.jpg.html)
I'm extremely happy with my arrow guns, very light, short, balanced, manuvrable and crazy powerful
and most of all if ever needed I can load a .357 JSB pellet in seconds after I've shot an arrow.
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That is extremely impressive. Looks like it would be a freakin death ray on piggies. Have you considered shooting blunts for smaller game with them? Do you shoot smaller game?
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That is extremely impressive. Looks like it would be a freakin death ray on piggies. Have you considered shooting blunts for smaller game with them? Do you shoot smaller game?
That would be nuts :) :) the Mini-Carbine shoots them bolts at 175 FPE, the rifle 220 FPE,
There is almost absolute certanty that it would blow through a small critter and the bolt would shatter against what ever it's behind, even shooting at a Porker there's a good chance of destroying the bolt or at least the broadhead.
Shooting a blunt tipped arrow also is the same thing as shooting a pellet at a small critter, no real advantage :) :)
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Dam Manny thats really impressive
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Dam Manny thats really impressive
Travis, maybe you can explain this, it makes no sense to me:
the Mini Carbine is a 90-95 FPE gun wiith the JSB and gets about 6-8 shots per fill,...with the bolts becomes 175 FPE and gets 3 shots,.....I don't understand how that works.
Rifle the same, gone from 150 FPE to 220 FPE and reduced the shots on tap Dramatically
HOW DOES THAT WORK ?!?!?!?!?! :) :) LOL:)
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Did you make the bolts your self? If so can you let us want to be arrow launchers how?
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Dam Manny thats really impressive
Travis, maybe you can explain this, it makes no sense to me:
the Mini Carbine is a 90-95 FPE gun wiith the JSB and gets about 6-8 shots per fill,...with the bolts becomes 175 FPE and gets 3 shots,.....I don't understand how that works.
Rifle the same, gone from 150 FPE to 220 FPE and reduced the shots on tap Dramatically
HOW DOES THAT WORK ?!?!?!?!?! :) :) LOL:)
It has to do with two major factors one is weight of the projectile. With the extra weight of the projectile the FPE almost always goes up due to using the expanding air more efficiently as a larger heavier projectile is in the bore longer now whats cool about arrow shooters is they increase the length of the barrel because as they rise above the crown they are still sealed to the barrel thus creating more area for the expanding air!!! How cool is that!!! So the arrow is heavier and creates and area for the expanding air to use as its rising and accelerating above the crown.
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Did you make the bolts your self? If so can you let us want to be arrow launchers how?
Those are the Air Bolts Pyramyd sells,...I just cut them to length to fit the barrels.
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Dam Manny thats really impressive
Travis, maybe you can explain this, it makes no sense to me:
the Mini Carbine is a 90-95 FPE gun wiith the JSB and gets about 6-8 shots per fill,...with the bolts becomes 175 FPE and gets 3 shots,.....I don't understand how that works.
Rifle the same, gone from 150 FPE to 220 FPE and reduced the shots on tap Dramatically
HOW DOES THAT WORK ?!?!?!?!?! :) :) LOL:)
It has to do with two major factors one is weight of the projectile. With the extra weight of the projectile the FPE almost always goes up due to using the expanding air more efficiently as a larger heavier projectile is in the bore longer now whats cool about arrow shooters is they increase the length of the barrel because as they rise above the crown they are still sealed to the barrel thus creating more area for the expanding air!!! How cool is that!!! So the arrow is heavier and creates and area for the expanding air to use as its rising and accelerating above the crown.
But Travis,
This bolts ride inside the barrel like a normal Pellet/Bullet.
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Are the bolts hollow and unplugged on the end going into the barrel?
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I would love to see some videos of accuracy out to 40yds with broadheads.
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Are the bolts hollow and unplugged on the end going into the barrel?
nope, there's a bullet shaped nock at the back, so it's like shooting a long, heavy bullet :)
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Love how compact the carbine is when broken down! I'm sure both have/will put a lot of meat on the table 😎
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Love how compact the carbine is when broken down! I'm sure both have/will put a lot of meat on the table 😎
Yeah, for my hunting grounds this is as good as it gets for Hog hunting.
Monday I was bowhunting, it was most likely, actually, for sure the day when I was in contact with the most amount of pigs in my hunting career here on the Island
I was in contact with at least 20 if not 25 porkers, some at sub 10 yards but never was able to take a shot either because with a bow I would never be able to thread an arrow past all the trees and saplings or because the drawing movement so close to the quarry just gave me away.
If I was carrying one of my REX arrow launchers I could have made several shots because I would have overcome those 2 obstacles, one with the capability of threading the bolt with precision, the other because once I got myself in position and waited for the shot I wouldn't have to move again at the time of taking it.
Yes my Arrow launchers are as good as it gets for my type of hunting.
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Are the bolts hollow and unplugged on the end going into the barrel?
nope, there's a bullet shaped nock at the back, so it's like shooting a long, heavy bullet :)
Then it’s all about the weight of the arrow and how slow it moves up the bore compared to a bullet. Your holding back a room full of air in the reservoir and it wants to expand so when you let it out how long it takes the object to get to the end of the bore is measured in time aka milliseconds timing. The longer a object is in the bore the more time the air has time to expand and make energy that’s why longer barrels make more power and heavier ammo makes more power.
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Are the bolts hollow and unplugged on the end going into the barrel?
nope, there's a bullet shaped nock at the back, so it's like shooting a long, heavy bullet :)
Then it’s all about the weight of the arrow and how slow it moves up the bore compared to a bullet. Your holding back a room full of air in the reservoir and it wants to expand so when you let it out how long it takes the object to get to the end of the bore is measured in time aka milliseconds timing. The longer a object is in the bore the more time the air has time to expand and make energy that’s why longer barrels make more power and heavier ammo makes more power.
I was also thinking, maybe because of the inline valve to bore design the heavy Bolt made the valve stay open longer, and that would also explain the dramatically reduced shot count.
Am I way off on this one ?
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Are the bolts hollow and unplugged on the end going into the barrel?
nope, there's a bullet shaped nock at the back, so it's like shooting a long, heavy bullet :)
Then it’s all about the weight of the arrow and how slow it moves up the bore compared to a bullet. Your holding back a room full of air in the reservoir and it wants to expand so when you let it out how long it takes the object to get to the end of the bore is measured in time aka milliseconds timing. The longer a object is in the bore the more time the air has time to expand and make energy that’s why longer barrels make more power and heavier ammo makes more power.
I was also thinking, maybe because of the inline valve to bore design the heavy Bolt made the valve stay open longer, and that would also explain the dramatically reduced shot count.
Am I way off on this one ?
That won’t effect the valve it’s only factors are the weight and speed of the hammer opening the valve. The heavier slower arrow is simply using the air supplied better.
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I was also thinking, maybe because of the inline valve to bore design the heavy Bolt made the valve stay open longer, and that would also explain the dramatically reduced shot count.
Am I way off on this one ?
I think you would have to be right. Pressure differential would have a much slower tapering off. From high to low on exhaust side of the valve. Meaning there would be more resistance for a longer period of time to it actually closing.
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Are the bolts hollow and unplugged on the end going into the barrel?
nope, there's a bullet shaped nock at the back, so it's like shooting a long, heavy bullet :)
Then it’s all about the weight of the arrow and how slow it moves up the bore compared to a bullet. Your holding back a room full of air in the reservoir and it wants to expand so when you let it out how long it takes the object to get to the end of the bore is measured in time aka milliseconds timing. The longer a object is in the bore the more time the air has time to expand and make energy that’s why longer barrels make more power and heavier ammo makes more power.
I was also thinking, maybe because of the inline valve to bore design the heavy Bolt made the valve stay open longer, and that would also explain the dramatically reduced shot count.
Am I way off on this one ?
That won’t effect the valve it’s only factors are the weight and speed of the hammer opening the valve. The heavier slower arrow is simply using the air supplied better.
So, Travis why is my shot count basically cut in Half ?
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Are the bolts hollow at all?
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Are the bolts hollow at all?
Yeah, like a standard carbon arrow.
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I mean when the gun is fired does it pressurize the whole bolt or is all the pressure contained behind it like it was otherwise shooting a pellet?
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I mean when the gun is fired does it pressurize the whole bolt or is all the pressure contained behind it like it was otherwise shooting a pellet?
No, the nock is flat and solid like a bullet, no air gets inside the actual bolt.
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It WILL affect the dwell of the valve. This is commonly seen on AirForce Inline type platforms when using heavy projectiles!
Heavier projectile holds the valve open longer so more air usage!
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A heavy bolt requires more energy to accelerate. Initial acceleration will be slower as the greater inertia and any static friction is overcome. This might result in the valve staying open longer because of a longer (milliseconds) period of high pressure in the bore. Be neat to test the "Chamber pressure" of those guns.
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It WILL affect the dwell of the valve. This is commonly seen on AirForce Inline type platforms when using heavy projectiles!
Heavier projectile holds the valve open longer so more air usage!
That was the only explanation i could think of for the dramatic power increase and shot count decrease,.....Pretty neat how that works :)
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That looks amazing! What a small, versatile hunting package! 3 shots per fill with arrows seems like plenty to me-- hauling off 3 pigs is no joke!
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That looks amazing! What a small, versatile hunting package! 3 shots per fill with arrows seems like plenty to me-- hauling off 3 pigs is no joke!
Yeah, 3 shots is way more then plenty also I only carry 3 Arrows in the field, in any case I can also carry the air tank from my rifle if I want to shoot a bunch of Pellets too :)
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Well Manny I was wrong I looked into the inline valve system and your right back pressure can cause higher dwell in this system and thus higher FPE output and lower shot count due to higher dwell I guess that explains a lot.
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Well Manny I was wrong I looked into the inline valve system and your right back pressure can cause higher dwell in this system and thus higher FPE output and lower shot count due to higher dwell I guess that explains a lot.
Thanks,...unbelievable, I never expected that.
So inline systems will lend themselves to be better arrow shooters,....man I got lucky on this one :) :) :) LOL :) :)
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Well Manny I was wrong I looked into the inline valve system and your right back pressure can cause higher dwell in this system and thus higher FPE output and lower shot count due to higher dwell I guess that explains a lot.
Thanks,...unbelievable, I never expected that.
So inline systems will lend themselves to be better arrow shooters,....man I got lucky on this one :) :) :) LOL :) :)
It appears so my friend! You did get lucky! Awesome results
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Well Manny I was wrong I looked into the inline valve system and your right back pressure can cause higher dwell in this system and thus higher FPE output and lower shot count due to higher dwell I guess that explains a lot.
Thanks,...unbelievable, I never expected that.
So inline systems will lend themselves to be better arrow shooters,....man I got lucky on this one :) :) :) LOL :) :)
Based on this, if I ever got really crazy, I could convert my Leshiy into an arrow-gun and end up with a screamer. However, no thanks :) A think a Rex is just a smarter path.
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Manny, please excuse my ignorance as I know nothing about the rex platform.. in one picture I can see the tank male fitting? How does it connect together with the gun? Is it quick and tool less? Do you have to switch anything to go from air bolts to pellets? I’ve always been a fan of powerful things that fit in small packages..
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Also do those air bolts only work with .357 bores or can you get some that would work with say a .40cal?
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Manny, please excuse my ignorance as I know nothing about the rex platform.. in one picture I can see the tank male fitting? How does it connect together with the gun? Is it quick and tool less? Do you have to switch anything to go from air bolts to pellets? I’ve always been a fan of powerful things that fit in small packages..
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Completely tool less,
......the tank screws into the gun.
I can shoot a bolt, then load a pellet, shoot a few pellets, load a bolt, shoot the bolt,....and so on, no need to change anything.
AirBolts makes .357, .45 and .50 bolts, so it's just about buying a gun that you fancy on those calibers and then get the bolts,
As I mention, I much rather have a gun that can shoot both Pellet/bullets and arrows then a dedicated arrow shooter that limits you.
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What kind of scope/reticle do you prefer for these guns?
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Completely tool less,
......the tank screws into the gun.
I can shoot a bolt, then load a pellet, shoot a few pellets, load a bolt, shoot the bolt,....and so on, no need to change anything.
AirBolts makes .357, .45 and .50 bolts, so it's just about buying a gun that you fancy on those calibers and then get the bolts,
As I mention, I much rather have a gun that can shoot both Pellet/bullets and arrows then a dedicated arrow shooter that limits you.
https://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/air-venturi-air-bolts-50-caliber-6-pack?a=2193036&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Dynamic+Search+Ads+-+DSA&utm_term=&pm2d=SEM-SPG-DSA-SITE&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI2e2um8a25wIVmB6tBh0xDgGcEAMYAyAAEgLC8fD_BwE (https://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/air-venturi-air-bolts-50-caliber-6-pack?a=2193036&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Dynamic+Search+Ads+-+DSA&utm_term=&pm2d=SEM-SPG-DSA-SITE&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI2e2um8a25wIVmB6tBh0xDgGcEAMYAyAAEgLC8fD_BwE)
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What kind of scope/reticle do you prefer for these guns?
On the rifle I have a 2.5-4X with just a dot in the middle
On the Mini-Carbine I have a 6X but I'm thinking to swap to a 4X
short distance body shot you really don't need much magnification
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Hey Manny, Craig here. When Air Archery hunting, what season type is it considered? Bow or Air rifle? By the way, how is that pellet trimmer
working out for you? Craig
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Hey Manny, Craig here. When Air Archery hunting, what season type is it considered? Bow or Air rifle? By the way, how is that pellet trimmer
working out for you? Craig
Craig, the pellet trimmer is fantastic, precise and easy to use,.....Thanks
Well, here airguns are only aloud in Private lands,
so hunting regulations for state lands don't apply.
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I bet there is a lot less bore friction with the bolts compared to a pellet and definitely compared to a slug.
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As always your hunting setups are bad !!!. Aren,t we suppose to be dedicated traditional archers LOL. Mike
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As always your hunting setups are bad !!!. Aren,t we suppose to be dedicated traditional archers LOL. Mike
You are soooo right :) , but this thing is so Kool, so Baad Azz :) :) :)
Anyway, I don't do target shooting with airguns,
but I get my target shooting fix by shooting 200-300 arrows daily, at the moment I'm shooting an Osage bow I made several years ago and usually take it hunting if I can once a week or at least once every 2 weeks :)
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Manny there addition to the explanation.... Caliber cross section. Pound per square in translates to force. Acceleration =force x mass.
Cross section of 1/2" is .196in^2 . Multiplied by psi give Force pushing the arrow. Compare that to the area of the back of a pellet or slug. The arrow certainly has much less static friction (break away friction). The efficiency of acceleration offset compared to traditional projectile is why the energy is greater and the velocity so vastly different. Air consumption is greater since the larger tube is less restrictive than a traditional barrel. Higher volumetric flow at the same psi. I'm not certain that the valve stays open longer or not. I'd have to sit down and math the *(&^ out of it to be sure. I would imagine that if the tube were longer say 24in, those arrows would reach close to 700fps. Supporting the broadhead in the center of the tube would be another hurdle though. Any way you go about it , those are superior to any crossbow I've come across.
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But.......
The arrow is actually shot out of the same barrel that shoots bullets and pellets ;D ;D ;D
The broadhead is supported in the center of the barrel by a conical aluminum insert that sits in the crown of the barrel.
The was increase in FPE and decrease of shot count also happens when I use the 190gr bullet compared to the 82gr JSB, and probably the bullet creates significantly more friction then the pellet.
But I love to hear experts try to crack this one, we can learn something every day ;D
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Hi Manny
Great information on the Rex with arrows. If you could give me a little more information. I have the 19” barrel model and when you cut down the bolts do you cut the front and install a new insert for the broadhead?. And do you run with the end cap off to get to the barrel or just but the aluminum piece up against the end cap of the shroud.
Thank you for any information. Marco25
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Hi Manny
Great information on the Rex with arrows. If you could give me a little more information. I have the 19” barrel model and when you cut down the bolts do you cut the front and install a new insert for the broadhead?. And do you run with the end cap off to get to the barrel or just but the aluminum piece up against the end cap of the shroud.
Thank you for any information. Marco25
Marco, you have to make your calculations,
take the aluminum adapter off, see exactly where it sits in the barrel, measure how much it overlaps on the bolt, measure how much the bolt extends out the barre ( you can have the nock quite close to the valve when taking final measure )
then make your calculations, cut the bolt and re-glue the aluminum adapter.
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Got it. Thanks for the help Manny
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Well Manny I was wrong I looked into the inline valve system and your right back pressure can cause higher dwell in this system and thus higher FPE output and lower shot count due to higher dwell I guess that explains a lot.
I must be getting a better understanding of how this stuff works because this was the first thing that came to mind when I was reading this thread and Manny posed the question.
Now I feel like I know just enough to be dangerous... :o :-\
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I’ve got the opportunity to pick up a Rex from the used market but I’m not sure of air bolts. It’s a 357 like Manny’s . Is there a magic formula for making your own bolts? I do have a lathe so making knocks and front guides shouldn’t be a problem. Any advise here ? I’m a complete newb when it comes to any form of archery.
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I’ve got the opportunity to pick up a Rex from the used market but I’m not sure of air bolts. It’s a 357 like Manny’s . Is there a magic formula for making your own bolts? I do have a lathe so making knocks and front guides shouldn’t be a problem. Any advise here ? I’m a complete newb when it comes to any form of archery.
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=183696.msg156217042#msg156217042 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=183696.msg156217042#msg156217042)
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I’ve got the opportunity to pick up a Rex from the used market but I’m not sure of air bolts. It’s a 357 like Manny’s . Is there a magic formula for making your own bolts? I do have a lathe so making knocks and front guides shouldn’t be a problem. Any advise here ? I’m a complete newb when it comes to any form of archery.
Just buy the highest spine 6.5 mm carbon shafts,......( 3Rivers is a great supplier )
then cut to length ( if you get there either PM me or make me aware of this thread so I can give you a couple pointers )
get some high grade sticky velcro, make nocks and guides and you ready yo shoot :)
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most people don't know that all FX guns are easily converted, with the purchase of a kit, to an "air bow" Pretty nice knowing that even a person's .177 dreamline can be very easily converted to an air bow that has no trouble taking big game with ease.
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Can someone take close up pics of what the nocks look like on the air Venturi bolts ? Better yet the whole bolt. Also what material do you think is used for the nocks and guides? Would PFTE work or is that too soft?
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most people don't know that all FX guns are easily converted, with the purchase of a kit, to an "air bow" Pretty nice knowing that even a person's .177 dreamline can be very easily converted to an air bow that has no trouble taking big game with ease.
Not a fan of arrow kits or arrow only shooting guns,......I want my gun to shoot an arrow and immediately after a bullet.
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Can someone take close up pics of what the nocks look like on the air Venturi bolts ? Better yet the whole bolt. Also what material do you think is used for the nocks and guides? Would PFTE work or is that too soft?
Going to take some pictures right now for you
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Here is my 2 arrow shooters, both with 14.5" barrels
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and here some pictures of bolts, nocks and guides
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.
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Thanks Manny. That’s exactly what I needed to see. The nocks appear to be delrin if I were to guess and the front well that’s anyone’s guess, they did look like aluminium but I wouldn’t want that touching the crown. The Velcro’s is easy to get from Amazon . Now I just need to get in touch with the seller. I do have a very good archery shop just down the road in the next town over. Maybe they can help with the other materials.
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The guide is aluminum,
but remember Evanix barrels are super hard so I would not be worried of it touching the crown, I've seen no adverse facts from it.
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I will measure my bolts again if I find my micrometer :( but if I remember correctly they are 6.5 mm ( I posted on one thread but can't remember which one was ) Pyramyd sells the nocks last I checked.
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I’ve sent the seller three PM’s since seeing his add but has yet to back to me. I’m waiting to hear back from him before ordering any bolts or parts. These rifles were in stock at one time at AGS but stock has since disappeared. With just about zero hope to ever get them back. I may just put out a WTB for one.
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I’ve sent the seller three PM’s since seeing his add but has yet to back to me. I’m waiting to hear back from him before ordering any bolts or parts. These rifles were in stock at one time at AGS but stock has since disappeared. With just about zero hope to ever get them back. I may just put out a WTB for one.
can you buy from the states ? New england airguns and airgun pro shop carry them
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I can get from the states if I go through a gun importer. This of course adds to the price, and at that point I think it would be cheaper to either build a custom gun from Cothran parts or get a completely different gun.
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I can get from the states if I go through a gun importer. This of course adds to the price, and at that point I think it would be cheaper to either build a custom gun from Cothran parts or get a completely different gun.
I see, ......yeah not worth it like that.