GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Air Guns And Related Accessories Review Gates => Air Gun Review Gate => Topic started by: Rat Sniper (AKA: PaulT58) on April 16, 2019, 11:38:59 AM
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When I received the e-mail from Hatsan USA about these I was intrigued. I did some searching on the internet and there is not a lot of information out there about them. These is some info available about the US version, the Galatian Tact, which is essentially the same air rifle, this one is just it's much prettier European cousin!
Apparently, these are not normally available for sale in the US. Hatsan USA had them listed as limited quantity and classified them as Open/Sample. I'm assuming these would probably display/demonstration models used at the recent Air Gun shows, but don't know that to be certain. In any event, it may become a collector's item, so I figured I'd take a chance on it. I have dubbed it G5 because typing out Glatian takes too many keystrokes! :D
Initial impressions aren't bad. It is one beautiful air rifle! It arrive full of air, so that was a good sign. The sun was starting to set when it arrived, so I just removed the iron sights and mounted the ATN 4K Pro scope and sighted it in. The zeroing process is very simple with the ATN Scope, you just fire a couple shots and then use the on screen prompts and move the crosshairs from where you were aiming to the POI and hit save! Unlike the Air Speed, the G5 does not reliably actuate the recoil activated video recording of the ATN Scope. It's hit and miss at best, so it will be going back on the Air Speed tomorrow! The ATN is heavy, so being mounted to the already heavy G5, the whole package was a rest only rifle. It's much easier to shoot the Air Speed off hand with the ATN mounted since it's about 2 lbs lighter than the G5.
Accuracy isn't too bad and ac tally better than the initial accuracy I was getting from the Evanix Air Speed! I have not run it over the chrony, so I don't have any speed/power numbers yet, hopefully I'll get some time today. Surprisingly, it's not real loud either. It does not appear to have baffles in the shroud, so when it's actually slinging pellets it is back hard friendly. I did have one misfire, removed the magazine and fired to clear any pellet that may have been in the chamber. There wasn't one, and it was significantly louder when dry fired! Maybe it's an echo from that huge shroud that resembles the barrel of a 12 gauge shotgun!
I got the .25 caliber so it does send the pellets down range with some authority! It came in a nice hard side case and included 3 magazines, a sling and the normal assortment of other parts that typically accompany a Hatsan, like a degassing tool, fill probe and an assortment of o-rings. The air cylinder hold 255cc of air, filled to 200 bar and is removable so you can carry a spare to extend your shooting time between fills. Hatsan claims a shot count of 50 rounds at optimal velocity, but does not tell you what they think the optimal velocity is. I think I shot 3-4 magazines through it last night and was real close to 100 bar the I finished. I'll have to pay more attention to that next time. the 3 magazines hold 10 rounds each, so I doubt I'll need any extras. I think it's great that Hatsan includes multiple magazines, I wish more companies did the same.
The included manual was for the regular side lever Galatian model, so it's pretty much worthless to me. Fortunately, I found the manual on Hatsan' website so I do have the correct manual now. Having said that, that manual isn't a lot of help either. It covers noting about any sort of adjustments that may be available for this air rifle.
The trigger leaves a lot to be desired. It's long and heavy and does not appear to be adjustable. With limited information on this air rifle (in english anyway) it may take some further exploration to see if anything can be done to lighten the pull a little. The best I can describe it is it's a lot like the trigger feel of the Crosman 1077.
There is a warning in the manual about the bolt cycling to the rear with every shot, and caution left handed shooter to use caution. So, this may not be for the south paws!
Thus far, here are my pros and cons:
Pro:
Beautiful looking rifle :o
Semi-Auto! ;D
Decent accuracy
Con:
Long heavy trigger pull
Weight (well, it is a Hatsan!)
As I gather more info, I will post it here. I hope this helps for anyone considering this air rifle...
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Well, I shot it some more today and it broke! Yep it's not cycling correctly, so I have submitted a CS Form to Hatsan and am now waiting to hear back.
I believe the problem is either the action, the magazines, or a combination of both. The action does not feel real smooth. I popped off the side cover where the gear mechanism sits the cycles the pellets. It's coated with a very heavy grease which makes the whole thing feel sluggish. I don't know if this is the problem or not, but it's new, so it's Hatsan's problem to figure out.
When I fire it, it will shoot the first pellet I manually chamber. What happens next is consistently inconsistent. What I mean is, sometime the bolt does not fully cycle back forward to chamber a pellet, so I have to lock it to the rear, remove the magazine, shoot it ensure there isn't a pellet in the chamber and then reinsert the magazine. That first shot after reinserting the magazine and chambering a pellet works fine, but then it may do the same thing again, it may actually shoot the next pellet, or it may shoot just air! This seems to happen because the magazine isn't advancing fast enough to allow the probe to chambering another pellet.
When it was working, I ran some chrome numbers and did some accuracy testing. IMO, the power is not up to Hatsan standards. Typically they tend to shoot really hot right out of the box! This one, not so much. Here are the chrony numbers:
Pellet Weight Avg FPS FPE
H&N FTT 19.91 805.20 28.67
JSB King 25.39 728.00 29.89
Benj Domed 27.80 693.00 29.65
H&N Grizzly 31.00 631.40 27.45
JSB Heavy 33.95 634.20 30.33
Eunjin 35.80 621.40 30.70
Accuracy was okay with most of the pellets I tried, but it did the best with the H&N FTT which are pictured below.
In any event, once I get an RMA from Hatsn, it will be sent back and I'll have to wait and see if they can repair it, replace it, or offer me a refund...
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Yeah that seems pretty anemic compared to the .25 G-3 I had :-\
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I heard back from Hatsan, they are sending new magazines to try. I hope that works, but I suspect it may only be part of the problem. On some shots the bolt does not return to the full forward position even though there are still pellets in the magazine. I guess I will give them a try and see what happens.
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That is a very classic looking rifle!
I would like to see the differences in the magazines sent to you, what issues they address.
Hope they get your rifle cycling consistantly!
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They just referred to them as “newer” magazines, not necessarily a new design. I guess I’ll see when they arrive.
Hatsan is notorious for sell off old stock, the serial number on this ride starts with 1017, indicating it was manufactured in October 2017. It’s been sitting around a while and may just need a good cleaning.
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on the Hatsan Sortie semi auto, there is a o-ring around the mechanism (bolt?) inside. when that o-ring breaks or gets cracked, the gun doesn't get enough pressure to cock the bolt. My friend replaced that ring on my Sortie (not cycling)...and now it works flawlessly. Probably the o-ring broke.
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Yeah that seems pretty anemic compared to the .25 G-3 I had :-\
+1 Mine stock out of the box and still untouched shoots the JSB Kings 25.39's at just short of 850. The rifle is in my avatar pic.
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Yeah that seems pretty anemic compared to the .25 G-3 I had :-\
+1 Mine stock out of the box and still untouched shoots the JSB Kings 25.39's at just short of 850. The rifle is in my avatar pic.
Steve, you have the regular side lever version don’t you? This is the semi-auto model.
on the Hatsan Sortie semi auto, there is a o-ring around the mechanism (bolt?) inside. when that o-ring breaks or gets cracked, the gun doesn't get enough pressure to cock the bolt. My friend replaced that ring on my Sortie (not cycling)...and now it works flawlessly. Probably the o-ring broke.
Is this o-ring accessible without disassembling the gun? If so I may give it a try. If not, I’ll wait on the magazines and if that doesn’t fix the problem, I’ll send it back to Hatsan and let them fool with it. Thanks.
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Yep, mine is side lever. Yep, I know yours is semi auto and even for that, Hatsan, although they use light weight lead for their testing, say that rifle in .25 should shoot them around 870.
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WHERE DO I GET ONE OF THESE? from Hatsan? -Nate
I had the Galation Semi Auto Tactical:
https://youtu.be/kgKF_CX2GbE (https://youtu.be/kgKF_CX2GbE)
Very accurate
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on the Hatsan Sortie semi auto, there is a o-ring around the mechanism (bolt?) inside. when that o-ring breaks or gets cracked, the gun doesn't get enough pressure to cock the bolt. My friend replaced that ring on my Sortie (not cycling)...and now it works flawlessly. Probably the o-ring broke.
Is this o-ring accessible without disassembling the gun? If so I may give it a try. If not, I’ll wait on the magazines and if that doesn’t fix the problem, I’ll send it back to Hatsan and let them fool with it. Thanks
You need to take the gun apart, He disassembled the whole thing (he is a genius) -Nate
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Yep, mine is side lever. Yep, I know yours is semi auto and even for that, Hatsan, although they use light weight lead for their testing, say that rifle in .25 should shoot them around 870.
Yep, I agree, those 19.91 grain FTT's should be shooting 900 fps or better. 805 fps tells me something's wrong.
WHERE DO I GET ONE OF THESE? from Hatsan? -Nate
I had the Galation Semi Auto Tactical:
https://youtu.be/kgKF_CX2GbE (https://youtu.be/kgKF_CX2GbE)
Very accurate
It looks like they only have them in .22. You can get the wood stock like I have: https://hatsanairgunsusa.com/product/galatian-walnut-semi-auto-open-sample/
Or, with the synthetic stock for $50 less: https://hatsanairgunsusa.com/product/galatian-synthetic-semi-auto-open-sample/
on the Hatsan Sortie semi auto, there is a o-ring around the mechanism (bolt?) inside. when that o-ring breaks or gets cracked, the gun doesn't get enough pressure to cock the bolt. My friend replaced that ring on my Sortie (not cycling)...and now it works flawlessly. Probably the o-ring broke.
Is this o-ring accessible without disassembling the gun? If so I may give it a try. If not, I’ll wait on the magazines and if that doesn’t fix the problem, I’ll send it back to Hatsan and let them fool with it. Thanks
You need to take the gun apart, He disassembled the whole thing (he is a genius) -Nate
Well, I'm no genius, so I think I'll leave it to Hatsan to sort out. LOL! The manual that came with it wasn't even the correct manual, it was for the side lever model. There isn't much info on these at all, not in English anyway. So, with nothing to go on, I'm not comfortable with trying to repair it myself. That o-ring may be causing the low fps also! Hopefully Hatsan will get it all sorted out.
On the Tactical model you had, were you able to do anything to lighten the trigger pull? I doubt it can be shortened because it feels like it is part of the cocking process, but if it could be made light, that would be a huge improvement!
Thanks for all the inputs!
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I did quite a bit of tuning with the Hatsan Sortie semi and found many factors that can stop semi cycling:
Too high cylinder pressure results in less air released to cycle bolt, try a range of pressure before hammer adjustment
Hard pellets, JSB are softer and chamber with less force, if the bolt is not completely closed cycling will stop
Some pellet shapes don't chamber well, catching on mag port, round and polish inside edges of mag port.
Fouled barrel shroud causing drag, clean and grease lightly
Barrel collar near crown loose, reseat and tighten
LDC back pressure too high, remove LDC
Front return spring too tight, reduce tension to just enough to close pellet probe
It is also very difficult to determine if cycling occurred before firing. Marking every other spur tip gives a visual indicator that the next pellet has chambered (light/dark/light...).
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Thanne,
Thank you for the tips and what to look for. I'll address the ones I can below, others will have to take some exploration on my part!
Too high cylinder pressure results in less air released to cycle bolt, try a range of pressure before hammer adjustment
I filled to 200 bar and shot down to 100 bar. The various misfires occurred regardless of the pressure.
Hard pellets, JSB are softer and chamber with less force, if the bolt is not completely closed cycling will stop
Since the H&N FTT's and JSB Kings gave the best groups, those are the 2 pellets I have been shooting the most. The misfires occurs with both.
Some pellet shapes don't chamber well, catching on mag port, round and polish inside edges of mag port.
The shape of the JSB's and H&N FTT's are pretty similar, so that may not be an issue.
Fouled barrel shroud causing drag, clean and grease lightly
I did remove the shroud to clean the barrel and ran a rag through it to clean out any the lead dust. I also put a thin coat of diver's silicone grease on the o-ring.
Barrel collar near crown loose, reseat and tighten
This I will have to check.
LDC back pressure too high, remove LDC
No LDC on this one!
Front return spring too tight, reduce tension to just enough to close pellet probe
How do I go about reducing tension? It seems the end cap need to be screwed all the way in and there is no further adjustment that I can see.
Quite honestly, I believe it just needs a really good cleaning. With a build date of 10/17, I suspect all that grease has probably congealed and is causing more drag on the parts than it should, which is slowing everything down. When I pull the bolt to the rear and let it go, it does not slap forward. It's more of a hydraulic type of movement, not slow motion, but not real time either, if that makes any sense! Thanks again...
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The semi auto has been by far the most difficult for me to tune.
So when it's successful the accomplishment is far greater.
When it's not shooting right a real pain in the arse.
Good luck with it!
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I removed the shroud and put some silicone oil on all the points where the rod slides through the guides and also put a coating on the part that cycles the action.
I went outside and shot 3 magazines at 10 yards using the open sights. Each magazine had a different pellet in it to see if one cycled better than the others. The JSB 25.39 gr pellets did the best with only 1 misfire. The were also the most accurate (see below). The H&N FTT's were next with 3 misfires out of 10 rounds. The RWS H Point 26 grains were the worst, with every other shot being a misfire. I did notice that when I was removing the magazine to reset everything that the pellets seems slightly misaligned in the magazine (see below). I also noticed that my rifle, with a build date of 10/17 had black carries in the magazine and the one in Nate's video, with the build date of 12/18 had red carriers. So, maybe there has been a change in the design to correct this issue. I guess I'll see when they arrive.
I also took the clear cover off all 3 magazines, put a drop of silicone oil on the center hub and a small drop of blue loc-tite on the end of the screws and put them back together. There is a storm moving in, so I probably won't get a chance to try them until after the storm blows over...
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After working on the magazines, I've gotten it down to only 2 misfires per magazine! LOL! Not perfect, but getting closer! 3 magazines for a total of 30 shots drops the air pressure from 200 bar to around 140 bar. Shooting standing, without a rest, using iron sights at 35 yards shows clearly what a bad shot I am! LOL! Yep, I definitely need a rest!
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I received three new magazines from Hatsan USA today. They are a no-go! The little baggies they were in were labelled BullMaster, so there must be a difference between the two. The magazines that came with the G5 fit in the breech nice and snug. The new ones would not fully seat at all. After measuring the thickness of each, I found the new magazines are .025" thicker than the original magazines. I sent an e-mail to Hatsan with the pictures below. Now I'll wait and see what they plan to do next.
I also worked on the old magazines, by loosening the center screw a bit to allow the magazine carriage to turn freezer and also added a drop of silicone luge to the shaft in the hopes that would help. I shot a full magazine through it and still had 2 instances when it fired with no pellet in the chamber and 2 instances where it did not cycle the bolt forward after the shot. I suspect there is more going on that just the magazines. I asked for an RMA so Hatsan can take it back and either repair, replace, or refund me the money for it.
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Hatsan sent me an RMA and it's on its way back to the Mother Ship! Now to wait and see if they can fix it.
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Just wondering how this story ended!
:-)
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Just wondering how this story ended!
:-)
I ended up getting a refund and just getting a refurbished Galatian 1 Carbine instead. I think my semi-auto days are over, LOL! I think I'll stick to the regular PCP's!
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I see this thread is ancient..
But this is why I am posting.. I have been away from the sport for over 7 years.. I have some old Hatsans from 2013 and 2014..
One is a Galatian in. 25..i see these guns did not hold value very well.. I bought mine as a Hatsan refurbished about 300 below retail back then..
Then I had to send it back to them for some issues..from then on.. it has been a nice smooth action unit and pretty accurate out to 60 yards.
This morning I had a crazy notion to see what it would take or if it was feasible to turn it into semiautomatic. You know.. since it was just sleeping in its case anyway.
Any thoughts from you guys..
Be Well All
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I see this thread is ancient..
But this is why I am posting.. I have been away from the sport for over 7 years.. I have some old Hatsans from 2013 and 2014..
One is a Galatian in. 25..i see these guns did not hold value very well.. I bought mine as a Hatsan refurbished about 300 below retail back then..
Then I had to send it back to them for some issues..from then on.. it has been a nice smooth action unit and pretty accurate out to 60 yards.
This morning I had a crazy notion to see what it would take or if it was feasible to turn it into semiautomatic. You know.. since it was just sleeping in its case anyway.
Any thoughts from you guys..
Be Well All
You might be better served asking about the possibilities in the PCP/Darkside Gate. I have one myself I bought back in 2016, although mine is the III QE version and like yours, in .25.
Only issues I've had in all that time was replacing a very small o-ring on the inside of the valve. Never looked into anything Semi auto, so no idea if the older Galatians can be converted
or not.