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All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General > "Bob and Lloyds Workshop"

Comparing the Precision of Tin and Lead Slugs

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Spacebus:

--- Quote from: MJP on September 28, 2021, 04:02:33 AM ---I have shot plastic sabot rounds alot and using abs, pla, pom, nylon and polycarbonate. None of them fouled the barrel to any noticeable degree when using silicone lube.
All three calibers actually cleaned the bore with sabots after there was some lead fouling.
Shot with .357 using .223, .457 using .257 and the 20mm using .452 and .50 projectiles.
Too much fussing and talking about how bad lead is, I call it BS from the eco people. We have shot cast and handled over a metric ton of lead and none of us have any measurable exposure that is to any degree unhealthy.
Oh the birds eat it, and so on... lead sinks and is not so easily soluble to water as its too heavy, as for plastic well we have a plastic waste island floating in the ocean. How much does that kill fish and birds?

Speak up on not banning lead and stop thinking about what to do with our hobby.

Marko

--- End quote ---

Without taking this thread into the weeds with science and evidence, lets just say you are mistaken. I won't use plastic either due to the toxic effects. There are plenty of stories of guys casting ammo getting tons of lead poisoning, you just aren't looking. Today we understand the toxic properties of lead and problems arising from casting are less common, than they used to be. Millions of people suffered from the effects of TEL which has only been taken off public roads worldwide this year. Furthermore the NIH has determined that lead dust can and will be absorbed by skin in the presence of sweat and water. Just because you personally don't experience something doesn't mean it isn't a problem for other people.

This is the last I'm going to speak on the dangers of lead in this topic, but keep in mind this THREAD is about lead projectile alternatives. If you don't care about not using lead, then leave. Nobody is asking for your opinion about lead ammo, your opinion is well documented, and there really isn't anything else left for you to add.

subscriber:
Miles,

While I participate in the sideline discussions in how to make projectiles from other metals, the bottom line is that lead is hard to beat, with tin as a reasonable non-toxic second.

Bismuth is another non-toxic substitute that perhaps could be considered.  I think bismuth is denser than tin, but has other shortcomings.  It is used for shotgun pellets to reduce lead contamination of duck and goose habitats. 

It looks like 10 lbs of .18" diameter bismuth shot pellets is expensive, at $200.  Turning that into slugs or pellets would probably double the cost:
https://www.rotometals.com/bismuth-shot-bb-18-4-60mm-alloy-for-reloading-shells-10-made-in-usa/


Here, bismuth pellets are fired from an airgun:





I get the impression that pure bismuth is brittle. 
Perhaps a tin bismuth alloy could be considered:

Spacebus:

--- Quote from: subscriber on September 28, 2021, 09:19:43 AM ---Miles,

While I participate in the sideline discussions in how to make projectiles from other metals, the bottom line is that lead is hard to beat, with tin as a reasonable non-toxic second.

Bismuth is another non-toxic substitute that perhaps could be considered.  I think bismuth is denser than tin, but has other shortcomings.  It is used for shotgun pellets to reduce lead contamination of duck and goose habitats. 

It looks like 10 lbs of .18" diameter bismuth shot pellets is expensive, at $200.  Turning that into slugs or pellets would probably double the cost:
https://www.rotometals.com/bismuth-shot-bb-18-4-60mm-alloy-for-reloading-shells-10-made-in-usa/


Here, bismuth pellets are fired from an airgun:





I get the impression that pure bismuth is brittle. 
Perhaps a tin bismuth alloy could be considered:



--- End quote ---

When I get casting tools I would be willing to try.

ballisticboy:

--- Quote from: subscriber on September 28, 2021, 09:19:43 AM ---Miles,

While I participate in the sideline discussions in how to make projectiles from other metals, the bottom line is that lead is hard to beat, with tin as a reasonable non-toxic second.


--- End quote ---

I am not advocating any alternative to lead. All I am doing is pointing out the problems from the ballistic viewpoint. There are problems with all the alternatives, that is why we use lead. But there are very real possibilities that lead will not be available in the future, so it only makes sense that the alternatives are examined and the problems considered.

BigBird:
I believe the issue airgunners may have with both lead and plastics are both rooted in their association with firearms.  Hot gasses (fire) and primers (lead inhalation?).
I had a dedicated slug shotgun that had been shot so much with (wad) plastic slugs the barrel wouldn't come clean.  That was a plastic issue due to either fire, speed or pressure of a PB.  It was shot a lot before I got it.
If you read up on lead bullets used in firearms there is a limit to how fast you can push them before you get leading.

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