GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => American/U.S. Air Gun Gates => Crosman-Benjamin Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: rwt on July 26, 2015, 06:13:00 PM
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I've just received my 22 cal. Vantage and I am in the process of "shooting-in" the barrel and sighting in my scope. After about 150 pellets I decided to get out my chronograph and record some shot strings. I recorded a string of 10 shots and entered them into my spreadsheet with the following results.
Crosman Vantage NP: New
Pellet: CPHP 14.3 gr.
Average Speed: 737.4 FPS
Standard Deviation: 5.95
Avg. Ft/Lbs: 17.27
Velocity Spread: 20.9 FPS
Spread % of Avg. Velocity: 2.8%
I admit that I was a bit concerned about an average velocity of 737 fps for a gun advertised at 950 fps with alloy pellets. I happen to have the Vantage in 17 cal as well, so I decided to check my numbers for that rifle. The advertised velocity for that rifle with alloy pellets is 1200 fps. Mine averaged 972.3 fps with 7.9 gr. CPHP's. That was 19% below advertised. If I subtract 19% from 950 I get 769.5 fps, which isn't too far off from the numbers I'm actually getting. I'm curious what measured velocities you all have been seeing from the 22 caliber Crosman Vantage. If there's something wrong with my rifle, I want to get on resolving it right away. Thanks for your help.
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I see it advertised on PA as 800 fps with lead pellets so you're not far off, maybe could use a tune but honestly you seem right within proper velocity to me for that size of spring.
Take my Kodiak for example... It pushes lead around 950 fps for .177, but switch to the .22 barrel and most get around 700. Same spring just push ring a heavier pellet.
Was wondering if the .22 vantages used an different power plant but doesn't seem like it.
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I know what Pyramyd Air advertises but Crosman puts 950 on the box containing the rifle. Either way, I just wanted to be sure my numbers were close to what others are getting. Thank for your reply.
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I know what Pyramyd Air advertises but Crosman puts 950 on the box containing the rifle. Either way, I just wanted to be sure my numbers were close to what others are getting. Thank for your reply.
Yeah the best thing to do with the on-the-box ratings is to look where it is rated with lead pellets, or just assume they're measuring with PBA pellets and subtract 150-200 fps from the stated rating.
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Gamo alloy pellets are 9 gr. IIRC. At 950 fps that's around 18 FPE. Sounds like your Vantage is right where it should be powerwise. My Diana 34 (recently sold) pushed 14.6 gr. H&N FTT's in the 680's, and was absolutely lethal on squirrels out to 35 yds. You've got plenty of power. If you've got the accuracy to go with it you're in good shape.
Scotty
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I can tell you that yours is much better than mine, also a .22. PA did the 10 for $10 on mine and it only averaged 725 and this was with RWS Hobbies that are only 11.9 gr. This 725 includes the 1st shot that was 772 and obviously was dieseling! I don't have a chrony but I bet I'm not doing 700 with the 14.3 CPHPs. After looking at other similar rifle (Titan, Nitro Venom, etc.) you tube videos I thought this was about right but seeing your results I'm pretty disappointed.
Wanna trade???
Ed
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Wow, sorry I rubbed salt into the wound. I just wanted to be sure I was in the correct ball-park since this is my first 22 cal. I chose the Vantage after looking up the parts diagram on the Crosman website and found that the Vantage gas spring is the same part number as the Nitro Venom's gas spring and several others (I quit checking).
As to the velocity you mentioned, there's one thing I can think of that you might try. Crosman sometimes sends out dry pistons in their guns. 1 drop of RMCOIL in the compression chamber (opposite of the barrel) may improve things a fair bit. The manual recommends this after every 250 shots, so I do it. After 5 - 10 shots the dieseling should be done and you can see if you think the velocity improves. I had a 17 cal that was dry and it improved 80 FPS after 1 drop of RMCOIL.
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Even when lead pellets are used? They are going with the lightest pellet they can find.
The NP2 with lead pellets is stated at 900 FPS.
What pellet though? I've chronied mine at about 825 FPS with CPHP.
The JSB in 13+ gr. came in lower like the high 700 FPS.
Given the NP2 has that 'special' shock absorber on the piston itself?
I'll have to try the lightest .22 I can find to reproduce that 900 FPS statement.
Anyone know what the lightest .22 is?
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Wow, sorry I rubbed salt into the wound. I just wanted to be sure I was in the correct ball-park since this is my first 22 cal. I chose the Vantage after looking up the parts diagram on the Crosman website and found that the Vantage gas spring is the same part number as the Nitro Venom's gas spring and several others (I quit checking).
As to the velocity you mentioned, there's one thing I can think of that you might try. Crosman sometimes sends out dry pistons in their guns. 1 drop of RMCOIL in the compression chamber (opposite of the barrel) may improve things a fair bit. The manual recommends this after every 250 shots, so I do it. After 5 - 10 shots the dieseling should be done and you can see if you think the velocity improves. I had a 17 cal that was dry and it improved 80 FPS after 1 drop of RMCOIL.
Yeah, I've done that on my other rifles (NP XL1100 .22 & Benji NP Limited Edition .22/NPS) then I've read a number of posts saying NOT to do this. ??? I've got over 500 rounds through it now so I may give it a drop or two. No chrony though so I won't know anyway.
I see you have the .177 with a GTRIII in it. I've got one to put in the Vantage after I get some brass cup washers I ordered tomorrow. Wondering if you experienced any problems with it. I had a h#*l of a time with one in my NP XL but it's ok now although there's only one stage. I was warned though. Had to file down the tab on the anti-beartrap & increase the depth on the secondary lever. Just hoping I don't have to mess around with it in the Vantage. I put a CBR in the LE and it was plug & play.
Ed
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I know what you mean about forum info on the RMCOIL. When I get conflicting information between a manufacturer's documentation and the forum, I choose to go by the manufacturer's recommendation. ;)
The GRT-III drops right in exactly like the instructions direct. I've put one in my dad's Remington Vantage springer and one in my Crosman Vantage NP. I let Charlie-Da-Tuna know that it worked perfectly about a year ago, yet I still don't see the Vantage listed on the Crosman list. Maybe I just missed it. The trigger sets are identical between the springer and NP version, and it's an easy install. IMO, it makes all the difference in the world. I had forgotten just how bad the Crosman triggers are until I got my recent 22 Vantage. BTW, I have a GRT-III ordered for the Vantage 22.
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Regarding the RMCOIL--Maybe I'll compromise & give her 1/2 a drop. ;) Thanks for the feedback on the GRTIII. Hopefully mine will just drop into place and be perfect. I did the RC bearing thing 1st and it improved the pull quite a bit but not up to CDT standards. The Vantage still isn't listed there but it's obviously the same as the Venom, Titan and XL.
Happy shooting my friend.
Ed
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Oil in the compression chamber= fried piston seal! The manufacturers are about the highest velocity they can publish, regardless of the consequences. Contact as many pro tuners as you can and ask how many of them use oil in the compression chamber. I'll save your fingers some work. The answer is zero. Why trust a manufacturer who tells you your .177 gun shoots 1200 fps. but neglects to tell you that is with a 4 gr. pellet?
Scotty
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Man I got my Vantage ( also a Remington branded one ) out of a pawn shop so I don't know if the trigger is stock, bit I like it a lot more han the two-stage one on my Kodiak.
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Man I got my Vantage ( also a Remington branded one ) out of a pawn shop so I don't know if the trigger is stock, bit I like it a lot more han the two-stage one on my Kodiak.
Is it black of gold color? Black usually=stock, Gold=GRTIII. Their are other mods people do to the stock trigger to improve them, so it may be a modified stock trigger.
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720-780 is the ball park for the NP guns with 730-750 being the most common reported speeds for .22 cal
Read my Sig for a description of the pictured air rifle in my avatar
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Nothing to worry about at all for either gun. 20% slower running lead vs. alloy is perfectly normal. Remember that even those velocity numbers they spec with lead pellets use the lightest lead pellets on the market (7 gr lead .177's and 11.9 gr .22's). So your guns, firing 7.9 gr and 14.3 gr pellets, are getting right what they should be getting.
My Benji Trail NP got right around 710 fps with 14.3 gr CPHP's a few months ago, after 5,000 pellets downrange. It was running around 730 fps after 1,000 rounds a couple years ago, so it's fallen off a little but not enough to worry about.
Oh, and that's with no oil ever applied to the gun.
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I installed the GRT in my Vantage today--took all of a couple of minutes. It works great and I'm glad I got it BUT I'd like it better if it actually had 2 stages. I tried adjusting the one I have in my NP XL1100 for a LONG time and was never able to achieve 2 stages in that rifle either. I fooled around with this one a bit and adjusted it a little more to my liking but I'm not going to mess with it anymore. It's fine the way it is but if anyone has been able to get 2 stages out of a GRTIII in either of these rifles I'm all ears as to how you managed to do it. Gotta a CBR in my Benji NP Limited Edition (.22 NPS) and it has 2 distinct stages and was that way from the get go.
Ed