GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Vintage Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: LOKEY on January 13, 2022, 10:23:57 PM
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I found this seller on another thread but I thought a new thread just on this would be better. On ebay right now there is a seller that has a bunch of Crosman 100 and 101 rifles for sale. He is selling them at the price of $95.00 plus tax and shipping. I bought my self a model 100. I have not received it yet and will post pics when I get it. He told me in an email he has at least 25 more 100 models not pictured in his auction he will be listing in the future. Here is a link to the auction ( https://www.ebay.com/itm/125095409839 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/125095409839) )
I am getting the one in the middle of the 5 in the pics
I messaged him to find out the history of these and where and how he got so many of them and this is his reply. Very cool I never new that Crosman had a "Buy Back" program.
Years ago Crosman Air Gun Co. In 1923 designed the model 100-101-102-103 types of air rifles. There motto was "Power without Powder" This air rifle line was Crosman's only design Until a new model was introduced in 1949. So 25 years of the same models. The rifles would last forever with resealing every so often. They found it very difficult to sell the new post war models so........Crosman initiated a "Buy Back" program giving a buyer credit on a new Air Rifle. Thousands and thousands of the old models were stored away. Great quantities were buried. In the Air Force i witnessed things being buried. It happened. An employee of Crosman emptied one of the store rooms and filled his attic with so many rifles the house was going to fall in. Along comes a business man named Ron Sauls from South Carolina [died 2010]. My brother Mark operated a Crosman-Benjamin-Sheridan repair shop in North west Georgia for many years. In 2009 Ron Sauls had terminal cancer and he sold all the rifles to mark before he passed away. My brother got out of the air gun repair business and stored everything in a 55 foot semi trailer. About 6 years ago mark became very ill and had to live in a full time care facility. I was tasked with handling his estate. For the work I did he gave me the semi trailer full of air guns and parts. I am down to the last of the stuff now. mostly Crosman 101s and the 102 repeaters. about 300. Some still worked. Some have been stored more then 60 years because Crosman did not sell the trade ins. The last 101's were made for Sears and are considered the finest example made. Only in 1949. Steven B
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WOW!
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What an incredible piece of history. Thank you Don for sharing. I’d like to own a few of these buy back heirlooms! Maybe I can work it out somehow.
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What an incredible piece of history. Thank you Don for sharing. I’d like to own a few of these buy back heirlooms! Maybe I can work it out somehow.
I think they are kind of selling fast. He has changed the auction and it no longer shows the 5 100's that where originally for sale and he now only has 2 for sale. Who knows what He will list in the future? Why can't you get one in Virginia? State restrictions?
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I could through gunbroker but fleabay will not allow sales to Virginia. The area of Virginia near DC does not allow dangerous BB guns to be transported into the area so fleabay restricts all sales to our state. It simplifies their process I guess.
The other thing is I’d rather not spend anymore on airguns for a while. I may miss out but that’s okay.
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For years, Ron Sauls snagged every Crosman 1xx in sight at all the airgun shows. Eventually he bought hundreds of 'em from Rudy Merz (likely the Crosman employee referenced above). When I asked about his tremendous zeal for these models, he replied that someday they'd be worth $100 apiece and provide a great nest egg. Very sad that he didn't get to reap the reward - RIP a really good man.
Don R.
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There you go the Crosman legacy has a new chapter, the seller is also selling Mr Sauls hoard/crates of Kessler Air Rifle parts, there are enough parts to build a couple hundred models.
I just emailed the seller and asked if he had any premier logo 101’s, 1949 Krinkle paint rifles, pre-war 102’s and the even harder to find .177 version of the 102 known as the 104, guess what he said yes. Now I waiting to see what he lists next, but have already made a request to purchase a premier logo 101, he says in time he will list them but not ready just yet.
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Amazing.... simply amazing!
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A small correction and I hate being a stickler, but Ron Sauls passed in 2016. I had the pleasure of meeting him at Baldwinsville in 2014 or 15. Glad to see his airgun hoarding pay off, and see the Kessler parts surface after all the rumors of their location.
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A small correction and I hate being a stickler, but Ron Sauls passed in 2016. I had the pleasure of meeting him at Baldwinsville in 2014 or 15. Glad to see his airgun hoarding pay off, and see the Kessler parts surface after all the rumors of their location.
After reading your post I found this thread on another airgun site. It talks about Ron's death and where he acquired a large part of these guns with pics. Nice read.
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/americanvintageairguns/ron-sauls-has-passed-t7840.html (https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/americanvintageairguns/ron-sauls-has-passed-t7840.html)
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Glad this was not posted in the Bargain gate, 1 Crosman 100 on the way 8) I will do a side by side with the new 362 LOL
Did some reading on BB Peltier's blog https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2017/12/crosman-100-multi-pump-pneumatic-part-1/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2017/12/crosman-100-multi-pump-pneumatic-part-1/)
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Glad this was not posted in the Bargain gate, 1 Crosman 100 on the way 8) I will do a side by side with the new 362 LOL
Did some reading on BB Peltier's blog https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2017/12/crosman-100-multi-pump-pneumatic-part-1/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2017/12/crosman-100-multi-pump-pneumatic-part-1/)
I hope the one I am getting is as accurate as the one in BB Peltier's blog. That is a nice read. I already ordered some H&N Baracuda's to shoot.
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I emailed the seller and asked if he had any 104's for sale. He didn't say he didn't have any but if he does he said (none of those for sale. thank you) :'(
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I think it surprised him how fast the 100's went at $95.00, he could have easily doubled his money on each and still sold them just as fast as the 100 is valued between 25-50% more than a 101.
It may be he is going to wait to see what fair market value brings on the other models and variants before he sells anymore. Now matter I will be on the lookout for them when he does.
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I think it surprised him how fast the 100's went at $95.00, he could have easily doubled his money on each and still sold them just as fast as the 100 is valued between 25-50% more than a 101.
It may be he is going to wait to see what fair market value brings on the other models and variants before he sells anymore. Now matter I will be on the lookout for them when he does.
Me too
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He just posted 3 102's and one 100 on ebay today. He is asking $145 BIN for the 102's and $95 BIN for the 100. I thought a 100 was worth more than a 102. I see 102's all the time. Ether way his prices are still great for both in my opinion.
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The back story was well worth $95. LOL I may print that out to display with the rifle, have him saved on my watch list also 8)
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Not a bad price for those 102’s, the top and bottom ones with the late 5-ring cocking knob are nice. However, the one in the middle has the medium knurled knob found on the 102’s made right up to before WWII. The forearm on the middle one also looks like it may not be made of wood (hard to tell by picture), this one may be a “Clickless” model made around 1938/39.
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They are all sold now, Also the auction for the 100 he added to the end of the description (****LAST ONE AVAILABLE) Could be a sales trick or maybe he is actually out of them?
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The 100 I bought from him is located 90 miles north of my location, should get delivered tomorrow.
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The 100 I bought from him is located 90 miles north of my location, should get delivered tomorrow.
Mine is about 2 miles from my house but because of MLK day tomorrow it is :'(
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I will post pictures when I pick it up, will be fun to see what we got.
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Well I got my 100 today. It's not the exact one I asked for but it's still a nice example and at the price I am not going to return it. This has no numbers stamped on the breach. Is that normal?
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Well I got my 100 today. It's not the exact one I asked for but it's still a nice example and at the price I am not going to return it. This has no numbers stamped on the breach. Is that normal?
You got a bargain for what you paid and a good project for the winter.
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Yes these were built before they invented numbers ;)
Just watching this Ebay auction to see if we got a deal :)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/294721584858?hash=item449ec67eda:g:OGgAAOSwKMJh4FSx (https://www.ebay.com/itm/294721584858?hash=item449ec67eda:g:OGgAAOSwKMJh4FSx)
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From a first glance it's a small pellet logo (1948-1951) Brass barrel and steel pump tube. I should have it up and shooting in a few days at the least (maybe today if I am lucky) ;)
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Don,
Stamped numbers will not be on the breech of late models, for some odd reason they moved the numbers to the pump linkage area, or at least that is how it goes on late model 101's but could be different on the 100's. I know it is on the 102's they put the stamping on the front of the receiver and is visible when pumping.
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Back_Roads,
Looking at that listing it is possible someone is going to get a great deal, I would have been a bidder but have enough 101's and the 102 come with a missing breech cover. This one part is next to impossible to find, still fun to see what this listing does.
Dare I say you would stand a better chance of finding a unicorn playing with a needle in a haystack before you find that elusive breech cover, but again if the stars line up anything is possible.
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Don,
Stamped numbers will not be on the breech of late models, for some odd reason they moved the numbers to the pump linkage area, or at least that is how it goes on late model 101's but could be different on the 100's. I know it is on the 102's they put the stamping on the front of the receiver and is visible when pumping.
Thanks. It is on the pump linkage and is 803U. Well I have it pumping and shooting, Now for fine tuning! It came with a rubber cup type pump. I installed a new cup but it just doesn't seam to have as much power. I might install one of my home made pump seals and see if it is better. I will crono it first for reference.
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Got my 100 today, will take pictures tonight. The one I got is not going to shoot until i do some work on it, not didappointed for its $95.00 purchase price. I even think I know why the price was $95.00 the but plate had a $100 sticker from many years ago which lends credibility to the idea these 10x series rifle were going to be worh $100 each in the future.
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Got my 100 today, will take pictures tonight. The one I got is not going to shoot until i do some work on it, not didappointed for its $95.00 purchase price. I even think I know why the price was $95.00 the but plate had a $100 sticker from many years ago which lends credibility to the idea these 10x series rifle were going to be worh $100 each in the future.
I can't wait to see yours. I already resealed mine this morning and so for it seams to be holding air. I will be doing more with it tomorrow. All I know is they sold out fast and I am happy I got one.
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Pictures of the Crosman Model 100 I received from the seller who listed these rifles for sale on eBay for $95.00 each.
The pictures I took were after I cleaned it up. When I opened the box the brown packing paper it was wrapped in was oil soaked, for a moment I thought I ordered the Exxon Valdez. I feel the seller was hoping to revive old seals. I will say it was an honest effort but, no luck I cocked it and went through the motions of pumping it up it will not pump up at all. I have thought about an alcohol flush but decided to just take it down and reseal it since my hope is the restore it to shooting condition and refinish the wood, once this is done it will be tested and set aside to become a High School graduation present this May for our oldest son.
I do know the name a former owner as his name was pencil pressed into the forearm: Stewart Winsman, this was photoed to preserve what was there. Since it is going to a new owner this name will be steamed and sanded from history as I want my son to make this rifle his own.
As mentioned there was an old $100 sale sticker on the metal butt plate also some case hardening is still visible.
Based on the condition of all the screws it appears when I open this rifle up I will be the first person outside of the Crosman production plant to be inside this rifle, if this is the case it will be a mini time capsule of some sort.
It was missing the sight bridge but the knurled peep sight was attached for future installation also included was the large knurled screw to tighten the rear sight.
Just a guess at the moment and basing it in the rear sight design, 5-ring cocking knob, small logo (D over N), and numbers stamped into the pump linkage: 5173 U, I am guessing it is a late 1949 production model, again just an estimation maybe some one out there could help confirm if my estimation is close.
I forgot to mention the very first element confirmed was caliber, my check confirmed it is as .177 confirming it as the rare model 100.
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I shot it through the chronograph today (No target shooting yet) It holds air after 6 pumps and up. I think I can get higher fps with a different valve spring. The original steel one just seams to be real stiff and I think that is why it holds air after only 6 pumps. Also my barrel is REAL tight. It's so tight I actually double checked to make sure I was using a .177 instead of a .22. I actually have to push the pellet into the barrel with the bolt and it's just as tight at the mussel end. They don't just slid in like my 101. I also got the peep sight and the knurled adjusting nut with mine like Elroy did. ;)
6 pumps 458 fps
8 pumps 558 fps
10 ------- 569 fps
12 ------- 591 fps
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Don,
The tightness is a little odd. could be the pellets are a touch over sized for some odd reason this can happen from brand to brand so it may not be a barrel issue but I would also check for burrs or damage around the loading port of the barrel itself to rule that out as well.
Your chrony numbers for a .177 seem a little slow, not sure the grain of the pellet used but it is the typical 7.4-7.9 gr the velocity indicates someting is going on with the efficiency to retain and discharge air properly. Over pumping could lead to air being retained in the chamber, a quick check is to cock the gun after intial discharge if it fire again it is not being effective causing slower velocities. Over pumping can also lead to a problem called valve lock where the gun will not shoot after being pumped. Then again a weake spring could be your solution as well.
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Don,
The tightness is a little odd. could be the pellets are a touch over sized for some odd reason this can happen from brand to brand so it may not be a barrel issue but I would also check for burrs or damage around the loading port of the barrel itself to rule that out as well.
Your chrony numbers for a .177 seem a little slow, not sure the grain of the pellet used but it is the typical 7.4-7.9 gr the velocity indicates someting is going on with the efficiency to retain and discharge air properly. Over pumping could lead to air being retained in the chamber, a quick check is to cock the gun after intial discharge if it fire again it is not being effective causing slower velocities. Over pumping can also lead to a problem called valve lock where the gun will not shoot after being pumped. Then again a weake spring could be your solution as well.
Yes it had a slight burr at the breach created by the bolt and is taken care of now. But the Barrel is still real tight. I used the brass rod from my cleaning kit to push a pellet through and it stays snug all the way through which I really like. I was shooting 10.65 gr H&N Baracuda match pellets. I have a feeling when I get a rear sight mounted and do some shooting it just might be a tack driver. Or they might fly all over, We will see? Also my Chronograph is a cheap one from Amazon and my not be as accurate as better ones. Also it is retaining air and starts retaining after 6 pumps. I will be working to fix that.
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Elroy, I bet the 100 sticker was to sort the mass amount of rifles in storage and yours being a model 100 makes sense.
Lokey, it does look like your springs need some evaluation. I’m still looking into spring suppliers. It’s a fine line between building compression with less strokes of the pump arm and achieving a full discharge of stored air.
Keep us posted.
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Gary,
Your probably right on the mark with the sticker being the model identifier.
I will say with complete confidence I was the first person inside since this one left the factory, needs new seals all around, it even had the old asbestos one.
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Gary,
I will say with complete confidence I was the first person inside since this one left the factory, needs new seals all around, it even had the old asbestos one.
The same with mine. I made my own intake and exhaust seals and I used an O Ring in place of the asbestos one. It held air over night so I think they are okay. I still think that it is retaining air after shooting because the original steel football shaped spring inside it is to stiff. After I fix the air retention problem then I might try different pump cups to see which pumps better. Fun to play with these.
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Don,
I agree that they are fun to work on and tinker with, I also find the 10x series Crosman are very much like the old Lay’s potato chip slogan “You can’t have just one” including this one I now own 1 - 102: 2 - 100’ and 6 - 101’s for a total of 9, all because there is something unique with each one. In due time but not positive I can see myself owning or have owned and passed along an even dozen as I am looking for a decent 101 and 102 with the “Clickless” forearm and a “Premier” logo version and an outside dream maybe even a 104.
While I will never be nor have any intentions of being the foremost authority or subject matter expert on the history of the Crosman 10x series, I have every intention of finding reasonably priced used one to restore to shooting condition at a minimum and pass along what I learn to others when the opportunity to do so presents itself.
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Elroy your right about these 10X series rifles. I’d like to have at least a few of these, starting from the 100 and going up. I read a comment by DT Fletcher today that the most rare would be the clickless 100. I don’t know if this would be the case but I’d enjoy one or more.
Right now I have my 102 back to pieces.
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Gary,
I am sure you will get sorted out in time, like I said I wish I lived closer I would be there to lend a hand. I will say if there ever comes a time you feel like waving the white flag we are here for you to nonce ideas off. Right now I am looking through my parts box for a metal barrel spring with a different wire thickness. I know I have I brass one, a thick steel one and the medium one, again if I find it I will send it your way.
What I find odd about both of my 100's is both came with metal barrel springs again one thick and one thin and not the lighter straight spring which I thought was one of the upgraded internal parts. I did notice they do have updated exhaust valve stems and valve designs but are slightly different. Neither one use a conical seal. When I get home tonight I will take pictures of the internals. I plan on posting my progress on my Christmas present 100 tonight after I put it back together, I like how it turned out.
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I appreciate the ideas Elroy. I am convinced that these pumpers are a great design and the originators did their due diligence for some solid power levels. We know they didn’t have the luxury of chronograph equipment.
I’ve taken mine down again to evaluate the common springs available in our hardware stores. What I’m finding is mostly junk.
Once I’m satisfied with the results and can duplicate them for reference sake I’ll doll this rifle up. I have everything for the refinishing, but that can wait.
I have bought some of the weaker springs and I’m thinking about making my own out of some quality wire.
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Here are a few pictures of the internals of the Crosman 100 my wife and sons got me for Christmas as compared to the ones from the $95.00 Model 100. If ther is any confusion on rifle the picture with the air chamber in it are the internals of the $95.00 rifle. There are differences between the two, very slight but different. Also I was surprised that the air chamber was the old style with no grove for an o-ring. This one was not stuck in the receiver long, 4 or 5 firm raps with a hammer after a2 hour soak in PB Blaster and out it came, good thing it will make cleaning the old asbestos seal off a lot easier.
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Good pictures Elroy. That exhaust valve and stem on the top makes me wonder if somebody changed out the seal away from using a conical seal. That particular exhaust valve looks like the large flat surface type. I would be curious if that was another variation from the factory?
I sure wish I had asked for you to check on the length of that barrel spring. Also, the wire looks like a beefier diameter verses the other pictures below. That top spring looks just like what I have in my model 102. That’s why I’m interested it the length.
If possible could you check the wire dimensions of the compression spring on the bottom? Also, what type of seal did the one on the bottom have when you opened it up. I assume the conical type?
Thanks for all the information and that mess on the table sure looks like a lot of fun.
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My spring inside looks like the spring in his top 2 pics. but the rest matches the bottom 2 pics. I wonder if my 100 would dump most of it's air if I had the weaker looking spring like his in the bottom pics?
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Gary - I will take some measurements tonight, as for the conical seal for the lower picture parts the stem says it was designed that way, however, the barss screw on cap has a rubber seal inside that fits flush on the upper surface of the metal conical pedestal instead.
Don - I do believe a lighter spring may be your answer as it wuld allow the exhaust valve stme to stay open slightly longer for air to escape to transfer fort and pellet. I allso feel the lighter spring will allow for eaier pumping as well since the check valve will move faster when pumping, but the question will be will it seal between pumps fast enough to hold the pumped air, if not more pumps could be needed to achieve desired results. Dang spring acts like an air scale got to fined the right one for the most efficient ballance on both ends of the pump spectrum.
This concept is known in the fire service on fire pumps as what are you chasing volume (GPM) or pressure (psi at the nozzle). A more expensive pump in this realm is known as a dual stage that can achieve both, odd this concept was not employed in the world of pumpers, I hazard a guess it is the the modern pcp world as many high pressure air compressors are designed for dual stage fill of SCBA tanks.
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Gary,
Sorry for the long delay,
Attached are the spring measurements for the barrel spring from the $95.00 model 100. Looking at the picture of the spring in the other 100 I recently put back together I believe the wire thickness is the same, but the length looks shorter as I feel someone compressed it so that it was not as stiff.
I have a couple of early 101’ that I will be tearing down in the next week or so, I will pass along what I find in these two as well.
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Elroy that’s some great data points. We are getting into the nitty gritty of discovery. I’m going to see if I can blueprint a couple of these different internal assemblies. If we can tie down the spring dimensionally in place with the exhaust stem and inlet valve as it fits before going into a compression stroke we’d know a lot more about the design. Reverse engineering to be sure, but once we nailed it down it’s done for future reference. Just my two cents and thank you for the added information!
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In your pics above showing the 2 different springs count the number of coils that each has for us. Just from your pics it looks like the spring in the top pics has an extra coil compared to the spring in the bottom 2 pics. This could explain why one is stronger than the other?
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Don, the extra coil is probably to take up space. Also if that top spring is the same as what I had in my original 102 the wire diameter looks bigger than the one below. My wire diameter is .063 and the length is 1.21. The length on the bottom spring as Elroy provided is longer.
Again, probably just to take up space between the different designed parts. I can only assume. That top spring must be stiffer, but I don’t know why.
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Mine made it here today ;D
Seems weak I get consistent 480 FPS with 8 pumps, though it shoots, not sure if is holding air at higher pump stroke counts.
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8431)
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8430)
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8429)
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8428)
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I shot it through the chronograph today (No target shooting yet) It holds air after 6 pumps and up. I think I can get higher fps with a different valve spring. The original steel one just seams to be real stiff and I think that is why it holds air after only 6 pumps. Also my barrel is REAL tight. It's so tight I actually double checked to make sure I was using a .177 instead of a .22. I actually have to push the pellet into the barrel with the bolt and it's just as tight at the mussel end. They don't just slid in like my 101. I also got the peep sight and the knurled adjusting nut with mine like Elroy did. ;)
6 pumps 458 fps
8 pumps 558 fps
10 ------- 569 fps
12 ------- 591 fps
Mine must of had lead work done, a Winchester HP will drop right in just so I can still see the skirt.
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I forgot to ask a silly question... Are these made by Hatsan, they sure are heavy little devils :) ;D
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I shot it through the chronograph today (No target shooting yet) It holds air after 6 pumps and up. I think I can get higher fps with a different valve spring. The original steel one just seams to be real stiff and I think that is why it holds air after only 6 pumps. Also my barrel is REAL tight. It's so tight I actually double checked to make sure I was using a .177 instead of a .22. I actually have to push the pellet into the barrel with the bolt and it's just as tight at the mussel end. They don't just slid in like my 101. I also got the peep sight and the knurled adjusting nut with mine like Elroy did. ;)
6 pumps 458 fps
8 pumps 558 fps
10 ------- 569 fps
12 ------- 591 fps
Mine must of had lead work done, a Winchester HP will drop right in just so I can still see the skirt.
Now that I de-bured the breach that is exactly how mine does. Yours is definitely older than mine. Nice!
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Back_Roads,
That one does appear to be older. Maybe someone with more detail could confirm this in the future. Some items that trend towards yours being an older model 100 include: 1. Numbers stamped in breech and not on pump linkage like late model 10x guns. Also of note is the second set of numbers that generally indicates it went back to Crosman for repair at some point early in its life. 2. Walnut was an option on late models with Maple and Elm being used primarily on late model 10x rifles. Cant tell on my phone but yours may be a walnut stock. 3. Yours has the large pellet logo design as the as the D and N are offset.
Again the things I described are not absolutes but are based on characteristics of older designs.
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I have the Blue Book of airguns I should do some checking on there too. Thanks for the information :) My thought is Walnut nothing fancy for grain but nice.
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Picture of stock is not a closeup, but it appears to be maple with a walnut stain.
Rifle is likely too late (1947) to be walnut. 1946 was last year of walnut except for a small amount
of war surplus walnut stocks that Hahn was able to latter acquire. So not impossible but highly unlikely.
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DWTrull,
Thank you for the info once again the information you are able to provided is simply amazing.
One thing I wish will be publish is the data related to being able to date these rifles, be it based on stampings or by changes. However, I am not sure if that will be entirely possible due to the interchangeability of parts and numerous changes, but one can dream I guess.
Currently I obtained an old straight logo 101 that has the 2 screws holding the pump assembly in place instead of the pin and band. I have read where this was the case on early variants and have only seen 1 example of this in what is known as the Vintage Airguns Gallery site, I hope I got that correct but have not visited that site in a month or so. My rifle also has the flat surface (no cone shape) small cooking knob, steel barrel and brass tube and tombsto e sight and of course the walnut stock and forearm, as for trigger I think it is flared but have not examined it thoroughly at this time.
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Did a little research on mine, not much yet though. Just looked up the Ebay listings, and found mine to be the top one in the 2nd listing. I did pump it 6 times and left it 24 hours and it holds air, so just a pump piston seal should get her shooting good. 8) Oh and the furniture is in fact Maple.
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=8438)
Also an old link to a Crosman 100 thread.
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=125639.msg1229273#msg1229273 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=125639.msg1229273#msg1229273)
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Well I have an update, I was looking the 100 over planning on a re seal, when I pumped it a few times, and it seemed to have much better compression. So I took it to 6 a few times dry fired, and when the pump strokes were feeling good and solid, I shot a dozen pellets through it just to see if they did indeed pick up speed. By golly this old girl wants to wake up and play. Left a few pumps in it with it uncocked, will see how she wakes up in the morning. 8)
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Wow! You fellows have been a great asset posting about your newly acquired model 100's.
James,
If you don't mind answering a few questions about your 100, I would like to add it to the database.
1. Is the tube bronze or steel?
2. Is the Air intake hole on right or bottom of tube under handle?
3. Is the plunger guide steel or brass?
Pics of this would be great, if OP doesn't mind
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Well I have an update, I was looking the 100 over planning on a re seal, when I pumped it a few times, and it seemed to have much better compression. So I took it to 6 a few times dry fired, and when the pump strokes were feeling good and solid, I shot a dozen pellets through it just to see if they did indeed pick up speed. By golly this old girl wants to wake up and play. Left a few pumps in it with it uncocked, will see how she wakes up in the morning. 8)
Nice! I hope it holds air! This post has turned out pretty nice. I have ordered parts for mine as well as made some, and I hope in the next few days I hope to post my results. This has so far been a fun experience with the different 100's.
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James,
If you don't mind answering a few questions about your 100, I would like to add it to the database.
1. Is the tube bronze or steel?
2. Is the Air intake hole on right or bottom of tube under handle?
3. Is the plunger guide steel or brass?
Pics of this would be great, if OP doesn't mind
[/quote]
The tube is bronze along with the barrel
The air hole is on the bottom
Plunger guide is brass
I can get some closeups later today.
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I also came across this https://airgunwarriors.com/resources/library/Vintage_Crosman_Airguns_Factory_Service_Manual_all.pdf
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I shot it through the chronograph today (No target shooting yet) It holds air after 6 pumps and up. I think I can get higher fps with a different valve spring. The original steel one just seams to be real stiff and I think that is why it holds air after only 6 pumps. Also my barrel is REAL tight. It's so tight I actually double checked to make sure I was using a .177 instead of a .22. I actually have to push the pellet into the barrel with the bolt and it's just as tight at the mussel end. They don't just slid in like my 101. I also got the peep sight and the knurled adjusting nut with mine like Elroy did. ;)
6 pumps 458 fps
8 pumps 558 fps
10 ------- 569 fps
12 ------- 591 fps
Wow I just reviewed your numbers, they are very close to what I was getting this morning when I checked it indeed it was begining to function as intended.
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I shot it through the chronograph today (No target shooting yet) It holds air after 6 pumps and up. I think I can get higher fps with a different valve spring. The original steel one just seams to be real stiff and I think that is why it holds air after only 6 pumps. Also my barrel is REAL tight. It's so tight I actually double checked to make sure I was using a .177 instead of a .22. I actually have to push the pellet into the barrel with the bolt and it's just as tight at the mussel end. They don't just slid in like my 101. I also got the peep sight and the knurled adjusting nut with mine like Elroy did. ;)
6 pumps 458 fps
8 pumps 558 fps
10 ------- 569 fps
12 ------- 591 fps
Wow I just reviewed your numbers, they are very close to what I was getting this morning when I checked it indeed it was beginning to function as intended.
I just got my order of parts from JG today. I was having a problem with the 100 holding air after only 4 pumps or more. So I ordered a new inner valve spring and a new hammer spring as well as seals. Anyway I decided to do the easiest one first, The hammer spring. The new hammer spring is a full half inch longer than the original. So it was the whole problem. Now all the way to 12 pumps it dumps ALL the air. I will Chrono it tomorrow to see if it made a big difference in speed.
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I couldn't wait until morning. This was with 10.56gr H&N Baracuda's
579 fps with 6 pumps
615 fps with 8
668 fps with 10
my cheap chrono would not register the 12 pump shots or higher :'(
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James,
If you don't mind answering a few questions about your 100, I would like to add it to the database.
1. Is the tube bronze or steel?
2. Is the Air intake hole on right or bottom of tube under handle?
3. Is the plunger guide steel or brass?
Pics of this would be great, if OP doesn't mind
The tube is bronze along with the barrel
The air hole is on the bottom
Plunger guide is brass
I can get some closeups later today.
[/quote]
I just noticed I mistyped the air hole is on the side.
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Okay I have held off on target shooting my 100 until today. It is a nice comfortable 55 degrees here in Florida so why not. My first target they where all over the place until I got it sighted in. Once I dialed it in WOW it's a tack driver to no exaggeration! I did do a scope modification which I am sure helped my old eyes but I have to say that this 100 is about the most accurate air rifle I have shot in years. So great for a air rifle that is around 72 years old!
This is 10 shots at 30 feet with 6 pumps, All inside a dime!
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That's a good group! I'm impressed..
Thanks for posting the results of all the hard work you've done (that we've been able to live vicariously through)!
Be safe,
J~
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Good shooting Don.
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I forgot to say that I did not change the 100 when I mounted the scope. I can remove it and put it back to original any time I want.
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Well I finally had some time to explore the Crosman 100 I bought from the same seller Lokey bought his from, the one I received is the second to last one in the attached picture (note the forearm is not snug to the compression tube). Overall not a bad rifle from an appearance point of view, but that is where we depart to functional reality. This one does not hold air, but will with a proper reseal. The biggest issue I am going to have is the pump arm, no matter what I do arm will pop back open.
I tried to correct the issue even though it would not hold air, no such luck it would pop back open. I found a couple seals that worked for the check valve and the other for the exhaust valve. I did not have a seal for the air chamber/exhaust valve face so I improvised and used an o-ring and I installed a new pump cup. It held air, but again the pump arm would pop up from the compression tube, I tried adjusting it to cam over no luck still sprung back up, I replaced the pump assembly pin at the muzzle with a new one still the same result, the holes at the muzzle are nice and not worn as well. I even opened up another one of my Crosman and measured the pump cup/rod length 7 7/8” same as what the 100 had before I started making adjustments.
At this time I am thinking the pump assembly is bent air not the correct one for a Crosman 100, but it looks correct. Would anyone have other things I should check out or try? At this time I am open to any or all ideas.
The other issue this one has at the moment, is it will not dump all the air at 6 or 8 pumps, knowing this I will be getting a new hammer spring and playing with the barrel spring to find the right balance.
Even with all its issues it will be a great shooter again, just needs some help with its issues.
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Good to see you back at it. While I don’t know what’s the cause I seem to think it’s something to do with the pump arm and linkage. After you described the issue I took another look at the top picture.
It looks like the linkage may be different from all the other pictures. I wonder if Magilla Gorilla was trying to get more power? The linkage does seem to be fatter going into the stock. Maybe bent? Just a guess. Hope this helps.
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Gary,
Good to hear from you as well. The last few weeks I was busy working on a Crosman Model 140 for an older gentleman who bought it new in 1968. After resealing it shoots great. He also had a Crosman Model 167 Co2 gun made around 1959 (had the Crosman peep sight attached). This one was a bit of a challenge to get sealed, but with the help of a Baker seal kit it does about 675 fps with 7.8gr RWS domed pellets.
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Elroy you really are diving into the full tune work. It’s great that you’ve been able to help that fellow and 675 fps sounds strong. He will be a happy shooter.
I’ve been studying springs and have learned a lot about the materials and manufacturing. I even looked at test equipment for springs. For our needs we should be able to use off the shelf products and testing. Takes more time but I’ve been able to find some good charts with explanations.
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Well I figured out to Pump Assembly issue on my EBay Crosman 100. I tore it all down, including removing the air chamber. I then put the pump assembly back in the tube, guess what it still popped up on its own.
Now knowing it was not resistance to stored air or piston hitting the top of air chamber I decided to look at my 101’s and the other 100 I have. I determined the pump arm was not bent by comparing it to one I took out of one of my 101’s and put this 101’s assembly in the 100’s tube, it did not pop open.
Since it worked and the 100’s pump arm did not appear to be bent, With the 101 and 100’s pump arms out of the tube I layed them out as if the piston cup was cammed over on the air chamber. I found the 100’s linkage arm bounced up when I pulled it back but the 101’s did not, from there I figured out the problem.
There is a little square tension spring under the linkage. On the 101’ pump arm the little square hole on the bottom was filled with the end of the tension spring. However, on the 100 the tension spring end was not filling the square hole. Using a steel hardened steel rod that fit inside the pump arm I was able to drive the tension spring back into position. After doing this I checked again, this time no bounce, from there I cleaned up all the parts and resealed the 100.
I put the pump assembly back in and closed it, finally it did not pop open on its own. I then adjusted the pump assembly to get the proper cam over, shot it a few times and it seems to be a stout little shooter. Now that I figured that out I will be trying a new hammer spring to see if I can get it to dump all the air on each shot, from there I will be moving on to the next phases of wood and metal refinishing.
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Gary,
That’s great news on the springs, I will be following as I will be experimenting on this 100.
Not full time yet, but working on those 2 was a lot fun. I think the 675 fps was a fluke based upon sealing method of the 167. I warmed the Co2 tube and valve assembly before charging the gun to help build higher pressure and aid in setting the exhaust valve seal. I learned this from reading the Mac1 sites instructions for resealing the Crosman 160/167.
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Well I figured out to Pump Assembly issue on my EBay Crosman 100. I tore it all down, including removing the air chamber. I then put the pump assembly back in the tube, guess what it still popped up on its own.
Now knowing it was not resistance to stored air or piston hitting the top of air chamber I decided to look at my 101’s and the other 100 I have. I determined the pump arm was not bent by comparing it to one I took out of one of my 101’s and put this 101’s assembly in the 100’s tube, it did not pop open.
Since it worked and the 100’s pump arm did not appear to be bent, With the 101 and 100’s pump arms out of the tube I layed them out as if the piston cup was cammed over on the air chamber. I found the 100’s linkage arm bounced up when I pulled it back but the 101’s did not, from there I figured out the problem.
There is a little square tension spring under the linkage. On the 101’ pump arm the little square hole on the bottom was filled with the end of the tension spring. However, on the 100 the tension spring end was not filling the square hole. Using a steel hardened steel rod that fit inside the pump arm I was able to drive the tension spring back into position. After doing this I checked again, this time no bounce, from there I cleaned up all the parts and resealed the 100.
I put the pump assembly back in and closed it, finally it did not pop open on its own. I then adjusted the pump assembly to get the proper cam over, shot it a few times and it seems to be a stout little shooter. Now that I figured that out I will be trying a new hammer spring to see if I can get it to dump all the air on each shot, from there I will be moving on to the next phases of wood and metal refinishing.
Nice. I let us know how it shoots. I have been shooting mine for the past few days and I am loving it. Not hard to pump and really accurate. Keep us posted
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Don,
Will do, I noticed mine is easy to pump as well, so far I have only gone as high as 10 pumps
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Mine has sat with oil for a week seemed to pick up some pumping pressure and power, holds air charge well, but I should replace the pump cup this weekend and see what the ole gal can do for real :)
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So I was looking at my 100 and was about to get to the teardown, when a bottle of isaprople said let me try to fix things first. I said what the heck, and gave it a TBS tall drink, fired the gun as I compresses the first pump to push liquid straight through, then proceded to pump once or twice to work the rest through. It responded almost instantly, so I spent an hour, working fresh oil into it, plinking cans and spinners, using a line of sight I managed to find since it is sans rear sight bridge until one arrives in the mail.
Also polished the barrel with FITZ, with tear down time saved for now 8)
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I just grabbed a 102 from the same seller. Can't wait to get it. WOO HOO!!!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/115242293712 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/115242293712)
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Nice pickup, the 102 is a repeater version and you cannot beat his price on these as they can easily go for double plus. Keep us updated on your purchase.
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Been seeing some of these and other older guns on Ebay and priced BIN reasonably.
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If I did not have so many 101’s I may have been a buyer for one of those $75.00 models. Holding out hope he lists something I would not be able to pass on like a 104.
My new current project is a 2nd variant Crosman 140 I just had to get after resealing a 4th variant 140 for someone else, until that reseal I had no interest in the 140 or 1400. One part I have not found is a spoon handle breech cover. If all else fails I will be contacting Rick.
I also picked up a 120 after 2 weeks of negotiating a realistic price that makes it worth investing in a reseal kit and obtaining parts missing such as rear sight. Still don’t know why I wanted it, it may be that it is the pump version of the 113 and 114 bulk fill rifles not sure but the project should be fun.
As Back Roads mentioned, there seems to be some appealing BIN prices on some of the vintage rifles being listed on EBay, looks like we are finally seeing a market adjustment to more realistic price listings. I watched this same situation play out in 2008-2010 with trading cards.
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If I did not have so many 101’s I may have been a buyer for one of those $75.00 models. Holding out hope he lists something I would not be able to pass on like a 104.
My new current project is a 2nd variant Crosman 140 I just had to get after resealing a 4th variant 140 for someone else, until that reseal I had no interest in the 140 or 1400. One part I have not found is a spoon handle breech cover. If all else fails I will be contacting Rick.
I also picked up a 120 after 2 weeks of negotiating a realistic price that makes it worth investing in a reseal kit and obtaining parts missing such as rear sight. Still don’t know why I wanted it, it may be that it is the pump version of the 113 and 114 bulk fill rifles not sure but the project should be fun.
As Back Roads mentioned, there seems to be some appealing BIN prices on some of the vintage rifles being listed on EBay, looks like we are finally seeing a market adjustment to more realistic price listings. I watched this same situation play out in 2008-2010 with trading cards.
Yea that is why I grabbed a 102. I didn't have one. I now have a 100, 101, and a 102 in the mail. And I got lucky with the prices, like you said his are real reasonable. It would be real nice to add a 104!
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I’m bummed out. Does any body have his personal contact info. Ebay won’t let sellers send to me in VA. It’s legal but they’ve blaclisted the entire state.
I want to pick up a 101 and a 100 when he has more available. He isn’t on gunbroker anymore, I don’t think.
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Scratch the request. I found him on gunbroker.
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Gary,
Glad to see you found him and a possible way to secure items from him. I was starting to think of creative ways to help out.
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Some kind soul gave me their mailing address from the shipping package. I was able to contact the seller using eBay but before I could close a deal working around eBay’s regulations all the 101’s have now been sold. I’ll keep working on this. Yikes that was a good deal.
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$75 for a 101 was so tempting, I would almost guess he will be listing more, based a message he sent me he has more than he can list at one time,, and if they are older ones I will be on them like butter on toast.
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Do 102's ever have a pellet logo on the side? Looking at the pics of the 2 they had for sale it looks kind of like one of them has one?
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Don, I'm wondering about that too. Hopefully one of the more knowledgeable gunnies will share when these were made with the logo depression’s on the 102 models.
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Don, I'm wondering about that too. Hopefully one of the more knowledgeable gunnies will share when these were made with the logo depression’s on the 102 models.
When I purchased mine I asked for that 102. So if he honers my request that will be the one I receive. We will see?
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102’s with logo are late model post WWII versions, raised area around sight bridge groove, 5 ring cocking knob and a maple butt stock and forearm. Best approximate guess these logo versions were produced sometime between 1946 - 49, if they had a Krinkle paint finish the would be very late versions. Hopefully DWTrull will comment as well.
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I managed to get up with the seller and worked a deal on an early 101 and 102. I started out going for a 100 and 101, but as things worked out I dropped the 100 in favor of a checkered stock 102. These were a little pricy but if they turn out to be decent early versions I’ll be a happy shooter.
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Gary Checkered stock 102’s are very early ones from the mid-late 20’s. I have the one my Great Uncle bought with money he made selling newspapers in 1927, the took with him during WWII while serving in the USN, he used to go shoot with others when on liberty at various stops. He resealed it in the late 60’s. I remember my uncles and Dad would shoot targets with it and some powder burners when we went camping back then. My mother gave it to me after my uncle passed away a couple years ago.
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Gary Checkered stock 102’s are very early ones from the mid-late 20’s. I have the one my Great Uncle bought with money he made selling newspapers in 1927, the took with him during WWII while serving in the USN, he used to go shoot with others when on liberty at various stops. He resealed it in the late 60’s. I remember my uncles and Dad would shoot targets with it and some powder burners when we went camping back then. My mother gave it to me after my uncle passed away a couple years ago.
I really enjoy the provenance with these early rifles. Your known history is one of the best. Too bad these vintage airguns can’t talk.
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Gary,
I agree, so many hands have touched these old classics, maybe even a past or current leader of one of our states or the nation.
The one my Great Uncle bought so long ago started out as a Grouse and Pheasant killer. He told me after he bought it that his brothers and him would hunt a bird up about every week or so to have for Sunday dinner. When he grew up and entered WWII he said he packed it up after graduating pilot school and went to war both came home and his rifle and memory live on.
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Gary,
I agree, so many hands have touched these old classics, maybe even a past or current leader of one of our states or the nation.
The one my Great Uncle bought so long ago started out as a Grouse and Pheasant killer. He told me after he bought it that his brothers and him would hunt a bird up about every week or so to have for Sunday dinner. When he grew up and entered WWII he said he packed it up after graduating pilot school and went to war both came home and his rifle and memory live on.
That's just awesome. Great story!
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Don, when are your rifles supposed to arrive? I ordered mine yesterday and fedex has updated the arrival for tomorrow afternoon.
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Don, when are your rifles supposed to arrive? I ordered mine yesterday and fedex has updated the arrival for tomorrow afternoon.
Mine is supposed to be delivered today. But my mail man sometimes doesn't actually deliver until the next day so who knows.