GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Machine Shop Talk & AG Parts Machining => Topic started by: Rob M on May 01, 2021, 09:26:04 PM
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well its no where near done , but doesnt look as stupid as it did 3 weeks ago..( its still literally a bucket of concrete )
These are likely the last pictures before the enclosure and flood coolant , and then I wont be able to see much since im not making a 1000 dollar all clear poly enclosure.(prob something cheap )
The amount to discuss is mind numbing.. The basic premise was build something as solid as a medium benchtop mill for cheap , then mount all 20mm linear rails and let the rest fall into place.. I always wanted to do this , But it took a lucky day driving to pick up my daughter when a man had thrown out about 200 lbs of scrap steel.. ( angle , box , plate steel , etc etc ) i got all of it , and that sparked the beginning..HERES an older pic
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51151668743_20c5a3fc5a_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kW6F2a)20210426_100934 (https://flic.kr/p/2kW6F2a) by murphyrobert9 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/56743574@N07/), on Flickr
pouring concrete stinks and i dreaded every minute of it.. the tupperware thing was 22 dollars at walmart .. Tractor supply delivers concrete really cheap.. , With filling the column and the spacers out to the z , i used 300 lbs even..
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51152545495_d6371b063a_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kWbaDz)20210501_104215 (https://flic.kr/p/2kWbaDz) by murphyrobert9 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/56743574@N07/), on Flickr
Call it hemi orange , for non car people its safety orange.. In reality , i like the syil VMC's but cannot afford one
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51151445221_76fe2159f6_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kW5wzk)20210501_143118 (https://flic.kr/p/2kW5wzk) by murphyrobert9 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/56743574@N07/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51152586650_655724207b_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kWbnT9)20210501_103848 (https://flic.kr/p/2kWbnT9) by murphyrobert9 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/56743574@N07/), on Flickr
Overall , i dont know how many hrs invested , it doesnt look great but runs like a dream for the few test cuts ive done. I probably need another 20-30 hrs to set up the flood drainage , enclosure , more tramming , and i forget what else.. I did reuse the controller , drivers, and one of the steppers from the old router. id say no particular skills are required to make a small rigid cnc mill, just be decent with a calipers and understand parallelism. .. But the more tools you have going in the better,. Having a horizontal bandsaw helped the most..Transfer punches would have been nice but i decided to locate every hole by scribing , probably lost 6 hrs doing that all for a matter of 50 bux... A set of parallels is a smart tool to have also when starting . .. heres a simply cut i did to verify my axis step -per calibration.. I didnt even face the part i was too excitied to press " cycle start " The stainless chip gaurd in the one pic has a brother, they also need to be installed to keep everything off the x ballscrew.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51151457306_a63bd4a256_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kW5AaG)20210501_144351 (https://flic.kr/p/2kW5AaG) by murphyrobert9 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/56743574@N07/), on Flickr
sorry i dont have a cool pic , this is the only gcode i ran so far..
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another test cut on the same scrap block
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51151652546_215752f785_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kW6AcU)20210501_212634 (https://flic.kr/p/2kW6AcU) by murphyrobert9 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/56743574@N07/), on Flickr
once i get the flood installed , and better trammed , i should be good.
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"Vert De Ferk?"
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Good build!
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Congratulations! You had suggested this before and Im not even sure I took you serious. Probably because i was thinking of my skill set. Sorry! However I'd not be able to do it without seeing it first. Great work! Any time you can exchange a little diy time/work for results like this without the cost is amazing. Are you going to be taking orders for CNC work now?
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Just, WOW.
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thx guys.. The smallest commercial units are about 6500 to start , anything decently rigid anyway..By the time you get a few options , theyre all 12,000 u.s . ( tormach 440, syil x5 a few others , they have better spindles , but the tormach is actually dovetails which is a downgrade from flat linear rails )
Bigbird - sorry, no plans of taking on any work at the moment , maybe down the road. Yes , i added the hours plus parts ( parts total was under 700 plus my old electonics ) , it turns out my labor would have been thousands , but now I dont have machine payments , just some cuts on my hands (-' Keep in mind , thats 700 is with the old spindle and steppers
As you can see , even within a few hours from cut 1 to cut 2 , the results are getting cleaner. SO far it was time well spent.. Havent hogged anything serious with a larger end mill yet
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Very freaking cool! That is my kinda stuff right there. Make it yourself!
It’s funny you post this now, I’m in the process of making a cnc saddle for my mini lathe. 2 axis only. So I can remove my saddle and go back to manual without much hassle. I’m learning quite a bit about ‘linear rail’.
Great job man!
Dave
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Very freaking cool! That is my kinda stuff right there. Make it yourself!
It’s funny you post this now, I’m in the process of making a cnc saddle for my mini lathe. 2 axis only. So I can remove my saddle and go back to manual without much hassle. I’m learning quite a bit about ‘linear rail’.
Great job man!
Dave
thanks man / I built a cnc lathe at one point and scrapped it over spindle indexing ., The biggest thing to prepare for is making sure you have a good spindle encoder and a GOOD program that reads it.. I suggest acorn , because mach turn blows.. Mach turn wont read spindle pulses through usb, only db25 port.
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I don’t plan on incorporating spindle. I do my threading on my Clausing. Matter of fact, I’ll control spindle speed by hand.
Your way more knowledgeable on this than I. Maybe I’ll dive into a mill someday as I learn more about it.
Dave
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Rob, that's an outstanding build! ;D
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thanks David , i figured the comment up top was a reference to the bright orange ;)
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thanks David , i figured the comment up top was a reference to the bright orange ;)
Naw... I like the color, I just couldn't believe the basic, simplicity of the build! :o
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That is just too cool!!
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David - yes , that was key to keeping cost down..Not having to build a mold/ form .. Then materials. Generally , a professional manufacturer might use epoxy granite or cast iron as a base.. Thats roughly 2 dollars a Lb, maybe 4 dollars... Concrete is about 5 cents a pound so it made sense .
Thanks Tom!
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Big step up from the old one Rob, well done. 8)
Al
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Big step up from the old one Rob, well done. 8)
Al
thx Al , yes the 6040 was limited at its core..No matter how many little things i chased down , it was never even gonna be capable of the material removal rate i wanted, nor the surface finish
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Nice work man,
Now its just material to be turn in to big pile of chips, and you will find nice parts inside!
;)
Marko
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Nice work man,
Now its just material to be turn in to big pile of chips, and you will find nice parts inside!
;)
Marko
Thanks Marko..Ive been running ideas through my head for an all electric atc/ stud puller.. Maybe something along the lines or the tormach TSS system , but without the pneumatics. maybe an electric impact gun crushing a belville stack..Something i can trigger from the controller outputs through mach3 ,. . We will see down the road a bit..
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Rob, You should get some kind of engineering award for that. That is awesome!
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Rob, You should get some kind of engineering award for that. That is awesome!
hahaha, yea, redneck resourcefulness trophy (-' thanks
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:D
Nothing like home-brew machine tools!
Jesse
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:D
Nothing like home-brew machine tools!
Jesse
yep.. for most machines, i probably wouldnt bother, but after researching the price of small cnc mills , i had no choice (-'
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:D
Nothing like home-brew machine tools!
Jesse
yep.. for most machines, i probably wouldnt bother, but after researching the price of small cnc mills , i had no choice (-'
I can imagine!! :P
Jesse
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My old boss at the machine shop I worked at before retiring had a neat trick when he was trying out a new program on his CNC mill.... He would put a pencil in the chuck, and mount a block of styrofoam on the table before pressing run for the first time.... It avoided several expensive crashes from incorrect G-codes.... 8)
Bob
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My old boss at the machine shop I worked at before retiring had a neat trick when he was trying out a new program on his CNC mill.... He would put a pencil in the chuck, and mount a block of styrofoam on the table before pressing run for the first time.... It avoided several expensive crashes from incorrect G-codes.... 8)
Bob
lol, not a bad idea.. Thankfully ., i had a cnc router before this , so i did my first 100 crashes long before building this one.
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Any work worth sharing on this yet? I may have not seen it elsewhere.
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Any work worth sharing on this yet? I may have not seen it elsewhere.
oh a bunch of stuff.. ill Pm you some pics .. i run it almost every day for something or other.
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Glad it’s working. I wouldn’t mind seeing it as well.
Dave
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sent some pics , when i do something that looks cool and is airgun related , ill post here.. I use the cnc like most people use a dremel . ( quick repairs , brackets , random ideas.
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Like a dremel, me too I use the machining center for just about every odd job.
Did some 3D contouring today and have to say, CAM is the only really good way to play.
I have hand programmed thousands of parts in the past but not going to do that if I have a choice.
Marko
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ye (ftp://ye)
yep , i run easel in the shop and fusion on my laptop , both ready to go in 15 seconds .. easel lets me get out a simple shape contour or a slot in under 2 minutes.. fusion for the more complex designs .. Its like my bandsaw, dont know how i lived before i had it ;D
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I’m still learning a bit but I do like my little bullet mold maker saddle for the mini lathe. Beats the heck out of buying a mold and not liking it.
Dave
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I’m still learning a bit but I do like my little bullet mold maker saddle for the mini lathe. Beats the heck out of buying a mold and not liking it.
Dave
you already know enough to make a simple 3 axis cnc mill. ( based on the stuff you did with the lathe
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I’ve got a 3018 and was originally going to use it to ‘bore’ the bullet molds then came up with the lathe idea. Have you considered trying to bore a mold with your mill?
Dave
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no , not really.. I dont know enough about the topic and figured theres already experts making them , and those look pretty nice.
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Hey Rob-question for ya... Any sign of creep/distortion? Been doing a little reading; and it seems one of the biggest concerns with concrete for machine tools is it being unstable... How long did your casting set before you got it all put together?
Thanks,
Jesse
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no issues here so far .. The rail supports, and the main upright beam ( column ) had to set in the concrete.. so that was a few days.. By the time i turned the machine on from first pouring was likely 2 weeks, maybe 3.... Theres been no issues,one way I can tell is that my bed and column are in no way physically connected aside from the poured concrete.. So when I check my tram , one would think it would show up.. No visible cracks either.. I think the bigger picture is this , were the machine a giant piece of welded steel or cast epoxy resin , just the frame would have cost me $1000-1500 or more.. AS it sits now , the main concrete(360lbs ) , tupperware, and steel post column cost about 100 total ..For the accuracy youre gonna need in hobby parts, this setup cant be beat dollar for dollar. And that doesnt even factor trying to match the rigidity , whic although an unspoken rule is the most important factor on a mill. the pricey parts are linear rails , ballscrews , steppers, stepper drives, and a controller .. but thats all fairly economical too.. If youre thinking about a manual mill from concrete, do it , if youre thinking of a cnc from concrete , do it.
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Thanks-at the moment, just reading up-your sure can't beat the price of cement!
I've even got a free source for sand and gravel-have a small creek on the property...
Jesse
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Yep, just the mass is priceless when it comes to machinery. And I haven’t looked specifically but concrete should have as good or better resonance dampening than cast iron.
Dave
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yea, its night and day compared to the aluminum frame of the 6040.. Ideally, were i to do another con crete build , Id do the column and base as a form , so its all once piece of concrete .. But id have to make a box that shape ( more work
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At work we used concrete pads to mount equipment on. We used the mass of the pad plus isolation to dampen vibrations from machine to machine. We waited at least 30 days for the concrete to cure before installing equipment.
Really neat idea to use concrete for castings to fasten rails to. I didn’t look to see if you bolted it to the floor but that helps tighten them up.
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i didnt but the option is there.// the base stand is a water heater platform which was funny at first but never crosses my mind now.