Air Cartridge Design
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Air Cartridge Design
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Topic: Air Cartridge Design (Read 1525 times))
DarwinsLaw
Shooter
Posts: 24
yes
Real Name: Matt
Air Cartridge Design
«
on:
February 11, 2023, 06:05:09 PM »
Hi all, I realize there have been many posts about air cartridges and I hope I am posting this in the correct section. I just wanted some opinions on my design.
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USA, MO, Kansas City
Gippeto
Sharp Shooter
Posts: 864
Re: Air Cartridge Design
«
Reply #1 on:
February 11, 2023, 10:23:10 PM »
Is the drawing complete or have you left out details that might clarify the operation cycle?
I presume the spool_striker is to be hit by a firing pin of some sort, but then what? How do you see the valve opening?
Al
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Alberta, Canada
DarwinsLaw
Shooter
Posts: 24
yes
Real Name: Matt
Re: Air Cartridge Design
«
Reply #2 on:
February 11, 2023, 11:59:07 PM »
Yes the striker will be struck by a hammer or firing pin set up of some sort. I assumed that the striker would create a vacuum essentially and open the valve as with other air cartridges. I honestly don't know that much about it other than what I have read on here.
«
Last Edit: February 12, 2023, 12:20:06 AM by DarwinsLaw
»
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USA, MO, Kansas City
DarwinsLaw
Shooter
Posts: 24
yes
Real Name: Matt
Re: Air Cartridge Design
«
Reply #3 on:
February 12, 2023, 02:58:00 PM »
There is a strong possibility that I missed something or misunderstood the Lupra design.
«
Last Edit: February 12, 2023, 03:10:19 PM by DarwinsLaw
»
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USA, MO, Kansas City
rsterne
Member 2000+fps Club
Bob and Lloyd
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 26958
GTA Forums Person of the Year 2017
Real Name: Bob
Re: Air Cartridge Design
«
Reply #4 on:
February 12, 2023, 03:31:11 PM »
In order for the valve to open, you must have more area at the back of the valve rod than the front.... You also need to vent the chamber behind the rear O-ring to the atmosphere to initiate the firing cycle....
The big drawback of air-cartridge designs is that they are limited in power by the small reservoir of the cartridge.... If you make that large enough, then you face terrible efficiency....
Bob
Logged
Coalmont, BC, Canada
🇺🇦
Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since! 🇺🇦
Airsenal:
1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 2260 PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 HPA (37 FPE), 2560 HPA (52 FPE), XS-60c HPA in .30 cal (90 FPE), .22 cal QB79 HPA, Disco Doubles in .22, .25 & .30 cal, "Hayabusa" Custom PCP Project (Mk.I is .22 & .25 cal regulated; Mk.II is .224, .257, 7mm, .308 & .357; Mk.III is .410 shotgun and .458 cal), .257 "Monocoque" Benchrest PCP, .172/6mm Regulated PCP and .224/.257 Unregulated, Three regulated BRods in .25 cal (70 FPE), .30 cal (100 FPE) & .35 cal (145 FPE), .257 Condor (180 FPE).
DarwinsLaw
Shooter
Posts: 24
yes
Real Name: Matt
Re: Air Cartridge Design
«
Reply #5 on:
February 12, 2023, 03:32:43 PM »
Bob,
So the vent to atmospheric pressure is at the green mark, yes?
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USA, MO, Kansas City
rsterne
Member 2000+fps Club
Bob and Lloyd
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 26958
GTA Forums Person of the Year 2017
Real Name: Bob
Re: Air Cartridge Design
«
Reply #6 on:
February 12, 2023, 03:38:59 PM »
Not sure, but I think that is to pressurize the small chamber surrounding the firing pin, through leakage via the threads from the main chamber of the cartridge.... When fired, the firing pin must vent that small chamber to allow the rod to move back, opening the valve....
Bob
Logged
Coalmont, BC, Canada
🇺🇦
Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since! 🇺🇦
Airsenal:
1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 2260 PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 HPA (37 FPE), 2560 HPA (52 FPE), XS-60c HPA in .30 cal (90 FPE), .22 cal QB79 HPA, Disco Doubles in .22, .25 & .30 cal, "Hayabusa" Custom PCP Project (Mk.I is .22 & .25 cal regulated; Mk.II is .224, .257, 7mm, .308 & .357; Mk.III is .410 shotgun and .458 cal), .257 "Monocoque" Benchrest PCP, .172/6mm Regulated PCP and .224/.257 Unregulated, Three regulated BRods in .25 cal (70 FPE), .30 cal (100 FPE) & .35 cal (145 FPE), .257 Condor (180 FPE).
DarwinsLaw
Shooter
Posts: 24
yes
Real Name: Matt
Re: Air Cartridge Design
«
Reply #7 on:
February 12, 2023, 03:46:59 PM »
Bob,
Thanks. That makes sense HR Buckley has some tank fill valves that work basically in that fashion where there is leakage through threads pushing an oring aside temporarily. Basically, then I just need to add another component so that I can vent to atmospheric at the rear if I am understanding you and trim the front side of the valve like this.
«
Last Edit: February 12, 2023, 03:52:06 PM by DarwinsLaw
»
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USA, MO, Kansas City
rsterne
Member 2000+fps Club
Bob and Lloyd
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 26958
GTA Forums Person of the Year 2017
Real Name: Bob
Re: Air Cartridge Design
«
Reply #8 on:
February 12, 2023, 03:56:15 PM »
No, the rear portion of the rod (purple part) needs to be larger than the front portion.... or there will be no net force available to move that rod back to fire.... Look at that part in the photo to see what I mean....
Bob
Logged
Coalmont, BC, Canada
🇺🇦
Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since! 🇺🇦
Airsenal:
1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 2260 PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 HPA (37 FPE), 2560 HPA (52 FPE), XS-60c HPA in .30 cal (90 FPE), .22 cal QB79 HPA, Disco Doubles in .22, .25 & .30 cal, "Hayabusa" Custom PCP Project (Mk.I is .22 & .25 cal regulated; Mk.II is .224, .257, 7mm, .308 & .357; Mk.III is .410 shotgun and .458 cal), .257 "Monocoque" Benchrest PCP, .172/6mm Regulated PCP and .224/.257 Unregulated, Three regulated BRods in .25 cal (70 FPE), .30 cal (100 FPE) & .35 cal (145 FPE), .257 Condor (180 FPE).
DarwinsLaw
Shooter
Posts: 24
yes
Real Name: Matt
Re: Air Cartridge Design
«
Reply #9 on:
February 12, 2023, 04:03:44 PM »
Ah, so the purple part was fine in the first instance just need to add a component to vent to atmospheric in the striking area. The green part should be two pieces with a small volume of air trapped inside. I think I get it. Thank you
«
Last Edit: February 12, 2023, 04:11:19 PM by DarwinsLaw
»
Logged
USA, MO, Kansas City
rsterne
Member 2000+fps Club
Bob and Lloyd
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 26958
GTA Forums Person of the Year 2017
Real Name: Bob
Re: Air Cartridge Design
«
Reply #10 on:
February 12, 2023, 04:20:58 PM »
Nope, the rear of the purple part (where you show it inside the green part) must be larger than the front of the purple part.... Look at the part in the photo directly below the casing (= your purple part).... Compare the diameters of the O-rings, front and back....
Bob
«
Last Edit: February 12, 2023, 04:22:59 PM by rsterne
»
Logged
Coalmont, BC, Canada
🇺🇦
Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since! 🇺🇦
Airsenal:
1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 2260 PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 HPA (37 FPE), 2560 HPA (52 FPE), XS-60c HPA in .30 cal (90 FPE), .22 cal QB79 HPA, Disco Doubles in .22, .25 & .30 cal, "Hayabusa" Custom PCP Project (Mk.I is .22 & .25 cal regulated; Mk.II is .224, .257, 7mm, .308 & .357; Mk.III is .410 shotgun and .458 cal), .257 "Monocoque" Benchrest PCP, .172/6mm Regulated PCP and .224/.257 Unregulated, Three regulated BRods in .25 cal (70 FPE), .30 cal (100 FPE) & .35 cal (145 FPE), .257 Condor (180 FPE).
DarwinsLaw
Shooter
Posts: 24
yes
Real Name: Matt
Re: Air Cartridge Design
«
Reply #11 on:
February 12, 2023, 04:33:08 PM »
So, here is what you are meaning. Sorry for the confusion.
Logged
USA, MO, Kansas City
rsterne
Member 2000+fps Club
Bob and Lloyd
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 26958
GTA Forums Person of the Year 2017
Real Name: Bob
Re: Air Cartridge Design
«
Reply #12 on:
February 12, 2023, 05:52:02 PM »
Yep, the rear sealing diameter (O-ring) must be larger than the front one, or the valve will have no rearward bias to make it open when the small chamber at the back drops to atmospheric pressure on firing....
Bob
Logged
Coalmont, BC, Canada
🇺🇦
Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since! 🇺🇦
Airsenal:
1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 2260 PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 HPA (37 FPE), 2560 HPA (52 FPE), XS-60c HPA in .30 cal (90 FPE), .22 cal QB79 HPA, Disco Doubles in .22, .25 & .30 cal, "Hayabusa" Custom PCP Project (Mk.I is .22 & .25 cal regulated; Mk.II is .224, .257, 7mm, .308 & .357; Mk.III is .410 shotgun and .458 cal), .257 "Monocoque" Benchrest PCP, .172/6mm Regulated PCP and .224/.257 Unregulated, Three regulated BRods in .25 cal (70 FPE), .30 cal (100 FPE) & .35 cal (145 FPE), .257 Condor (180 FPE).
DarwinsLaw
Shooter
Posts: 24
yes
Real Name: Matt
Re: Air Cartridge Design
«
Reply #13 on:
February 12, 2023, 05:57:16 PM »
Bob,
Thanks for clearing that up it is much appreciated as is your patience. This drawing is rough still, but, takes that into consideration.
«
Last Edit: February 12, 2023, 06:03:15 PM by DarwinsLaw
»
Logged
USA, MO, Kansas City
rsterne
Member 2000+fps Club
Bob and Lloyd
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 26958
GTA Forums Person of the Year 2017
Real Name: Bob
Re: Air Cartridge Design
«
Reply #14 on:
February 12, 2023, 05:58:47 PM »
No Problem!
Bob
Logged
Coalmont, BC, Canada
🇺🇦
Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since! 🇺🇦
Airsenal:
1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 2260 PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 HPA (37 FPE), 2560 HPA (52 FPE), XS-60c HPA in .30 cal (90 FPE), .22 cal QB79 HPA, Disco Doubles in .22, .25 & .30 cal, "Hayabusa" Custom PCP Project (Mk.I is .22 & .25 cal regulated; Mk.II is .224, .257, 7mm, .308 & .357; Mk.III is .410 shotgun and .458 cal), .257 "Monocoque" Benchrest PCP, .172/6mm Regulated PCP and .224/.257 Unregulated, Three regulated BRods in .25 cal (70 FPE), .30 cal (100 FPE) & .35 cal (145 FPE), .257 Condor (180 FPE).
jackssmirkingrevenge
Sharp Shooter
Posts: 758
yes
Real Name: Jack
Re: Air Cartridge Design
«
Reply #15 on:
June 18, 2023, 11:02:44 AM »
For this to work, the gas in the pilot chamber should be able to escape quickly through the pilot valve on firing, and diameter A needs to be significantly larger than diameter B in order to have an opening bias once the pressure in the pilot chamber drop.
Logged
QC
"You have to make many weapons, because this field is long and short life"
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GTA
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All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General
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"Bob and Lloyds Workshop"
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Rocker1
,
ezman604
,
amb5500c
) »
Air Cartridge Design