GTA

All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => European/Asian Air Gun Gates => Turkish AirGun Gate => Topic started by: Lym rat on November 30, 2016, 09:22:43 PM

Title: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: Lym rat on November 30, 2016, 09:22:43 PM
So any opinions on hatsan qe vortex .30 can break barrel.. thinking bout getting one. Need some intel
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: Motorhead on November 30, 2016, 09:28:11 PM
WAY TOO large a caliber for a "Practical" spring / ram piston air gun.
Unique for sure and being sold under the disguise bigger is better ... in this case simply not true.

JMO ...
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: dw on November 30, 2016, 09:36:57 PM
I personally feel even the 135 in .25 is a stretch.  I have that one as well as the .22, and the .22 is much more practical.  What does the .30 shoot at? 500 or 550 fps...too slow.  Factor in the cost of the pellets, I wouldn't even consider the .30.  Just my opinion.

Dennis
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: Extreme .457 on November 30, 2016, 09:47:51 PM
     Well.......maybe as slow as the .30 Springer shoots a person could reuse the pellets  :o lol
Personally I don't see a benefit from such a large springer. Jim Chapman did a review on the Hatsan it was cool but, I really think the cocking effort is WAY TOO MUCH!! The .22 or .20 would be better suited for hunting and much more economic to shoot. The .30 is not a plinker for SURE!!!

  Take care Fellas
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: Rob M on November 30, 2016, 10:06:39 PM
im all for the 30 cal 125.. only because my issue here is armadillos inside 15 yrds. they have not been available recently.. all good reviews across the board too
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: anti-squirrel on November 30, 2016, 11:04:19 PM
The down-range power is pretty awesome.  I shoot a .25 Hatsan 95QE and it destroys squirrels; it isn't a hyper-velocity springer but Gets The Job Done..  Perhaps the most telling YouTube review I've seen of the .30 is Rick Eutsler's.... but I haven't read anything bad by people that own one here on the GTA.

I also look at things this way: I've killed a lot of pest birds using sling-shots with 1/4" and 5/16" steel ball ammo.  They were moving a lot slower than the .30 caliber pellets coming from the big-bore Hatsan, and ammo weight is comparable.

Think of this: a springer carrying 20+ FPE at 50 yards, and even moving at slower speeds, it doesn't decelerate as fast because of all that mass.  Given how my .25 bucks the wind, the .30 is sure to do even better. 

I just took a peek at the reviews on PA- lots of happy owners- let that be your guide.   "A pellet in motion tends to stay in motion"  LOL



Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: Rob M on November 30, 2016, 11:32:31 PM
The down-range power is pretty awesome.  I shoot a .25 Hatsan 95QE and it destroys squirrels; it isn't a hyper-velocity springer but Gets The Job Done..  Perhaps the most telling YouTube review I've seen of the .30 is Rick Eutsler's.... but I haven't read anything bad by people that own one here on the GTA.

I also look at things this way: I've killed a lot of pest birds using sling-shots with 1/4" and 5/16" steel ball ammo.  They were moving a lot slower than the .30 caliber pellets coming from the big-bore Hatsan, and ammo weight is comparable.

Think of this: a springer carrying 20+ FPE at 50 yards, and even moving at slower speeds, it doesn't decelerate as fast because of all that mass.  Given how my .25 bucks the wind, the .30 is sure to do even better. 

I just took a peek at the reviews on PA- lots of happy owners- let that be your guide.   "A pellet in motion tends to stay in motion"  LOL





well said , it seems like everyone thinks a slow projectile is useless, but a slow 30 cal round will do some damage, all the energy is imparted  on target
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: Gertrude on November 30, 2016, 11:58:11 PM
WAY TOO large a caliber for a "Practical" spring / ram piston air gun.
Unique for sure and being sold under the disguise bigger is better ... in this case simply not true.

JMO ...

I completely agree.

Although it may "retain" energy better than a .22 or .25, ... the problem is, it did not leave the muzzle with enough energy to maintain a decent trajectory in the first place.
POI will vary greatly with only minor range variations, and bucking wind will not even be a benefit due to the limited effective range of a 44.75 gr. moving so slowly.
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: only1harry on December 01, 2016, 12:26:38 PM
I agree as well.  My experience with my Hammerli 850 .22 when it was stock doing 615fps with 14.3gr on a 70-80deg. day was that I had to hold-over/under for every 5 yards the distance changed from zero which was 25yds.  After I missed on a couple of Starlings at 20yds and 30yds, I figured out the different POI's and the mildots.  But the trajectory was too loopy for me so I bumped the MV to 665fps and it's shooting a little flatter, but it's still not my preferred velocity in 22 for anything past 30yds.  Have you ever shot a .38 revolver with 158gr off the shelf loads averaging 750fps MV at various distances?  Then shoot a .357 158gr at 1250 fps and see the difference in drop?

Since when do we need .30cal to kill a squirrel?  Maybe ground squirrels at 75-100 yards out..  A low power big bore Springer is certainly not a gun to hunt hogs or big game with like deer, unless maybe it's at 10yds or closer.  What I look for in a big bore air gun is down range killing power and accuracy for coyote sized game & up well past 50yds, and velocity has a lot to do with it.  The Hatsan .30 springer isn't it.
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: packard8 on December 01, 2016, 03:21:35 PM
AFAIK, Hatsan uses the same 135 Vortex powerplant for .177, .22, .25 and now .30. I have a few 135 springers and while .25 is usable to 30 yds I think .30 would be pushing the limits.
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: Lym rat on December 02, 2016, 06:26:40 PM
Thanks guys. I believe that rifle just got denied for purchase. . . Any one wanna tell me the trick to running in my trail np2 .22
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: Lym rat on December 02, 2016, 07:06:52 PM
Tunning
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: Motorhead on December 02, 2016, 07:33:51 PM
Many many many threads within this gate:
 http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?board=4.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?board=4.0)
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: JPowell490 on December 02, 2016, 08:02:27 PM
AFAIK, Hatsan uses the same 135 Vortex powerplant for .177, .22, .25 and now .30. I have a few 135 springers and while .25 is usable to 30 yds I think .30 would be pushing the limits.

I completely do not agree with this.  I have had the older 135 spring version in .22 and now I have the new QE gas ram in .22.

These things are monsters.  There isn't another factory spring/gas gun getting any where close to 30 fpe like these.  Mine gets that or a bit over in .22 caliber. 

The .30 caliber definitely is not a long range shooter, but 50 yards should be easy in that gun.  I wouldn't hesitate to purchase one.
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: dave2288 on December 02, 2016, 09:33:39 PM
Supposed to be the same powerplant as the turk patriot and i know some have the .25 turkish pat and use it for 60 yard hunting.  I know my british patriot can take a squirrel at 65 yards consistently, but its a bit of a different animal.  And a bit stronger than these turkish guns, my pat is pushin around 35.5 fpe
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: packard8 on December 02, 2016, 10:02:28 PM
AFAIK, Hatsan uses the same 135 Vortex powerplant for .177, .22, .25 and now .30. I have a few 135 springers and while .25 is usable to 30 yds I think .30 would be pushing the limits.

I completely do not agree with this.  I have had the older 135 spring version in .22 and now I have the new QE gas ram in .22.

These things are monsters.  There isn't another factory spring/gas gun getting any where close to 30 fpe like these.  Mine gets that or a bit over in .22 caliber. 

The .30 caliber definitely is not a long range shooter, but 50 yards should be easy in that gun.  I wouldn't hesitate to purchase one.

My Hatsan 135/.25 springer does well with the 26gr Crow Mags (33 FPE at the muzzle), but from what I've read the .30 pellets are 45gr? Seems to me that is PCP territory.
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: A.K.A. Tommy Boy on December 03, 2016, 12:51:39 AM
Isaac:   I have 2 Hatsan 25cal guns one is an 85 sniper driven by a spring and the other is an Edge with a vortex gas ram. I mostly shoot out to 30yds but have hit a 3" HEAVY spinner with authority ( made for a 300Win mag rifle ) set out to 60yds with 19.91gr. H&N Field Target Trophy domed pellets. I Really Like the Hatsan guns that I have. I have never shot the Hatsan Magnum power plant spring or gas ram guns so I withhold comment on them respectively but they are a step up from the Hatsans that I own.                       Best Regards   -   Tom
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: Back_Roads on December 03, 2016, 05:47:00 AM
IMO going from a .25 to a .30 in a spring/gas ram is the finest line they can reach , between PCP and piston guns ,It is in the eye of the beholder :-X
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: grizzlyadams on December 03, 2016, 06:08:56 AM
the 30 is gonna be a 20yd gun.... trajectory is too loopy
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: dave2288 on December 03, 2016, 09:50:36 AM
I personally want to buy one in .30, but thats only because i like collecting magnum break barrels.  For a hunting rifle, i would agree with these guys, .30 cal at almost 45 grains with a piston gun is just not what id use unless it was a backyard pest or i stalked it really close.  Bet it makes one heck of a WHACK when it connects though lol
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: Sbak on December 03, 2016, 01:02:28 PM
I have a suped up 135 .25 vortex ram shooting 35+ fpe. It is a point and shoot out to 40 yards. Given this, a .30 with some work put into it would be a point and shoot to 35 yards with a scope height of 2 inches, I see no loopy trajectory here. That being said though, I still wouldn't opt for the 30 over the 25 for practical reasons, but if having a 30 floats your boat I say go for it
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: SteveP-52 on December 03, 2016, 03:44:55 PM
I can see the novelty for some of owning a .30 cal break barrel and there's definitely the "cool" factor so if you have the cash to spend, by all means go for it.
My practical side says the .25 version is a better bet...it will do everything the .30 will, cost less for ammo plus way more choices in .25 to pick from than the, I think 2, you currently have in .30 and longer effective range among others.
Just my usual lame 2 cents :)
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: JPowell490 on December 04, 2016, 11:39:48 PM
The 135 in .30 caliber is shooting the 44 grain JSB and the 50 grain JSB.  It actually does better with the 50 grain JSB.

Are we shooting 75 yard shots here?  Nah, not without some major hold over, but it is quite the gun.  50 yards should be no trouble. 

Watch this video.  If you don't want to hear the other stuff, pick up the video about the 10:00 minute mark for the hunting.

https://youtu.be/2cnWqCb7SEI
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: anti-squirrel on December 05, 2016, 09:58:09 AM
I love my 95QE in .25, and it is point-n-click to 30 yards.  I use iron-sights now exclusively on it.  And about loopy projectiles: it's no different than shooting a slow-moving bullet from a smoke-pole (black-powder) rifle at range.

I've killed literally thousands of pigeons using slingshot and steel ammo at more than 40 paces.  Yeah, it's like a mortar round dropping in on them.  But a body shot will fold them like paper.  If a loopy projectile is consistent, it is no different than opening up with minnie-ball, slugs, or taking a 45ACP to 120 yards.

People here have made up their minds, or so it seems.  But thus far nobody with a .30 Hatsan has chimed in, and all the people who have reported owning them in reviews are thrilled with the purchase.  It's easy to find videos from the UK of Britons tagging pests at 45+ yards with a sub-12fpe gun.  The trajectory on a 700fps .177 at 45 yards is not flat, so I see a lot of similarity between the two.

Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: dave2288 on December 05, 2016, 09:09:35 PM
I think the idea here is that its theorized that pellets moving 550 fps and slower lose stability at ranges over 20-25 yards and accuracy is effected.  Never tested it personally though.  I would love to see some .30 groupings at 35-50 yards with one of these rifles, ive heard theyre decent enough for medium sized game.  Idk about squirrel headshots at 50 yards, but i could be wrong
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: anti-squirrel on December 05, 2016, 10:24:42 PM
I think the idea here is that its theorized that pellets moving 550 fps and slower lose stability at ranges over 20-25 yards and accuracy is effected.  Never tested it personally though.  I would love to see some .30 groupings at 35-50 yards with one of these rifles, ive heard theyre decent enough for medium sized game.  Idk about squirrel headshots at 50 yards, but i could be wrong
Watch Rick Eutsler's video on YouTube.    50 yards- maybe not.  But I'm more inclined to think it is not only possible but repeatable.  Like I said, a sub-12 FPE springer can drop sparrows all day longer than 40 yards.   Given my .25 95QE's performance at 30 yards, I think a .30 should do some pretty cool things.  And, once a .30 pellet is in motion, it's keeping momentum for sure.

Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: dave2288 on December 05, 2016, 10:42:20 PM
I think the idea here is that its theorized that pellets moving 550 fps and slower lose stability at ranges over 20-25 yards and accuracy is effected.  Never tested it personally though.  I would love to see some .30 groupings at 35-50 yards with one of these rifles, ive heard theyre decent enough for medium sized game.  Idk about squirrel headshots at 50 yards, but i could be wrong
Watch Rick Eutsler's video on YouTube.    50 yards- maybe not.  But I'm more inclined to think it is not only possible but repeatable.  Like I said, a sub-12 FPE springer can drop sparrows all day longer than 40 yards.   Given my .25 95QE's performance at 30 yards, I think a .30 should do some pretty cool things.  And, once a .30 pellet is in motion, it's keeping momentum for sure.

The one thought actually i have on this is...and i dont remember who it was...but i know years ago(probably like a decade ago or so) there were guys that recorded 60ish yard pigeon hunts with beeman r7s.  Wish i could remember the guys that did the video, was really cool.  That rifle i believe is only shooting a bit faster than the 135 .30, and with much more effect on the .177 pellets for air resistance.  All i know is...i wanna see some freakin groupings! Lol
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: JPowell490 on December 06, 2016, 02:39:51 PM
I have one on order, so we shall see soon.
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: HectorMedina on December 07, 2016, 10:48:00 AM
Watch Rick Eutsler's video on YouTube.    50 yards- maybe not.  But I'm more inclined to think it is not only possible but repeatable.  Like I said, a sub-12 FPE springer can drop sparrows all day longer than 40 yards.   Given my .25 95QE's performance at 30 yards, I think a .30 should do some pretty cool things.  And, once a .30 pellet is in motion, it's keeping momentum for sure.

Interesting video, thanks for the link.

One thing to consider is that the target shot by Rick shows the classical situation where the SCOPE is NOT holding zero. Two shots together, then jump to another place and then two shots together.

Interesting.

Thanks!





Héctor Medina
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: HectorMedina on December 07, 2016, 10:49:59 AM

The one thought actually i have on this is...and i dont remember who it was...but i know years ago(probably like a decade ago or so) there were guys that recorded 60ish yard pigeon hunts with beeman r7s.  Wish i could remember the guys that did the video, was really cool.  That rifle i believe is only shooting a bit faster than the 135 .30, and with much more effect on the .177 pellets for air resistance.  All i know is...i wanna see some freakin groupings! Lol

If that video was in California, you're probably talking about Robert Hamilton.

One heck of an AirHunter.

Just an idea.





HM
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: HectorMedina on December 07, 2016, 10:50:37 AM
I have one on order, so we shall see soon.

PLEASE, if you could slug your barrel and let me know the true groove and land dimensions?

TIA!





Héctor Medina
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: Mr. Panther on December 27, 2016, 07:28:37 PM
Who knows, maybe one day there will be a "potato gun" springer,. Now that would be something to see.
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: Jason Phipps on December 27, 2016, 09:21:21 PM
I Cant give you a lot of technical info because im never the one with a chrono or any of that and i send my guns out to be tuned so im not the machinist type either. But i do like to have fun and play with cool stuff. Im happy with my .30 and would be interested in having someone tune it and make it better. Sighted in at 33 yards ( because that was what i had to work with that day ) it seems deadly accurate within that range and when recently was taken out and set up target eggs at 50 ,60 ,70 ,80 .... Only was it 80 that didnt get much consistency. 

Mind you this was being passed back and forth between 3 guys each taking 3 shots each and having never touched the gun before. Neither are shooters by nature either. Everyone was quite pleased. I myself very surprised. Now you could tell there wasnt much FPE left on it by the time it was past 35 to 45 ... but i was really surprised how flat it was still and with not much hold over it seemed .

I agree .25 at this FPE makes more sense in MANY ways . However i decided i see myself buying more .30 guns in the future and only maybe one or 2 more .25 guns in my lifetime ( i think , lol) ... But do plan on owning a few more .30 . Especially if Evanix and a few others follow through with projects im watching.

This has however made me really think several times about ALSO ordering soon this same rifle in .25   

I find the overall platform and rifle regardless of caliber to be a steal for the price.
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: packard8 on December 27, 2016, 10:14:41 PM
I Cant give you a lot of technical info because im never the one with a chrono or any of that and i send my guns out to be tuned so im not the machinist type either. But i do like to have fun and play with cool stuff. Im happy with my .30 and would be interested in having someone tune it and make it better. Sighted in at 33 yards ( because that was what i had to work with that day ) it seems deadly accurate within that range and when recently was taken out and set up target eggs at 50 ,60 ,70 ,80 .... Only was it 80 that didnt get much consistency. 

Mind you this was being passed back and forth between 3 guys each taking 3 shots each and having never touched the gun before. Neither are shooters by nature either. Everyone was quite pleased. I myself very surprised. Now you could tell there wasnt much FPE left on it by the time it was past 35 to 45 ... but i was really surprised how flat it was still and with not much hold over it seemed .

I agree .25 at this FPE makes more sense in MANY ways . However i decided i see myself buying more .30 guns in the future and only maybe one or 2 more .25 guns in my lifetime ( i think , lol) ... But do plan on owning a few more .30 . Especially if Evanix and a few others follow through with projects im watching.

This has however made me really think several times about ALSO ordering soon this same rifle in .25   

I find the overall platform and rifle regardless of caliber to be a steal for the price.

I just received a 135QE/.30 refurb on the Field Supply sale. I am happy with the purchase and the rifle is very accurate  at close range, shooting around 30 FPE with the Vortex 44.75gr pellets. I also have an older 135/.25 springer that shoots a bit stronger @ 33 FPE. I think overall the .25 is probably a better all 'round caliber (if you are shooting past 30 yds) but I'm glad to have both. The stock is nicer on the .30/QE and the shrouded barrel is quieter.
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: anti-squirrel on December 29, 2016, 07:01:04 PM
I just received a 135QE/.30 refurb on the Field Supply sale. I am happy with the purchase and the rifle is very accurate  at close range, shooting around 30 FPE with the Vortex 44.75gr pellets. I also have an older 135/.25 springer that shoots a bit stronger @ 33 FPE. I think overall the .25 is probably a better all 'round caliber (if you are shooting past 30 yds) but I'm glad to have both. The stock is nicer on the .30/QE and the shrouded barrel is quieter.
Good to hear!

Even if the trajectory is loopy, as long as it is consistent you'll be able to hit whatever you want wherever you want.  I've been reaching out more with my 95QE in .25- Polymags are all I have in .25, so my next batch of pellets with be something with dome front end to play longer distances :)
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: A.K.A. Tommy Boy on December 29, 2016, 07:21:19 PM
I just received a 135QE/.30 refurb on the Field Supply sale. I am happy with the purchase and the rifle is very accurate  at close range, shooting around 30 FPE with the Vortex 44.75gr pellets. I also have an older 135/.25 springer that shoots a bit stronger @ 33 FPE. I think overall the .25 is probably a better all 'round caliber (if you are shooting past 30 yds) but I'm glad to have both. The stock is nicer on the .30/QE and the shrouded barrel is quieter.
Good to hear!

Even if the trajectory is loopy, as long as it is consistent you'll be able to hit whatever you want wherever you want.  "I've been reaching out more with my 95QE in .25- Polymags are all I have in .25, so my next batch of pellets with be something with dome front end to play longer distances " :)
Peter:   Domed H&N 19.91gr. Field Target Trophies have been shooting good in my 25cal. Hatsan Rifles.   My Best Regards to You   -   Tom
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: packard8 on December 29, 2016, 07:40:11 PM
Peter:   Domed H&N 19.91gr. Field Target Trophies have been shooting good in my 25cal. Hatsan Rifles[/u].[/color]   My Best Regards to You   -   Tom

The Hatsan Vortex Supreme .25 19.91 pellets are the same, made by H&N for Hatsan. Sometimes Field Supply has them on sale for less then the H&N FTT's.
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: A.K.A. Tommy Boy on December 29, 2016, 07:48:16 PM
Peter:   Domed H&N 19.91gr. Field Target Trophies have been shooting good in my 25cal. Hatsan Rifles[/u].[/color]   My Best Regards to You   -   Tom

The Hatsan Vortex Supreme .25 19.91 pellets are the same, made by H&N for Hatsan. Sometimes Field Supply has them on sale for less then the H&N FTT's.
Peter:That is TRUE and John is RIGHT.   I've got several tins of them also and they work just as good as the H&N's.      My Best Regards to All   -   Tom
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: Rattus58 on December 30, 2016, 10:47:22 PM
The down-range power is pretty awesome.  I shoot a .25 Hatsan 95QE and it destroys squirrels; it isn't a hyper-velocity springer but Gets The Job Done..  Perhaps the most telling YouTube review I've seen of the .30 is Rick Eutsler's.... but I haven't read anything bad by people that own one here on the GTA.

I also look at things this way: I've killed a lot of pest birds using sling-shots with 1/4" and 5/16" steel ball ammo.  They were moving a lot slower than the .30 caliber pellets coming from the big-bore Hatsan, and ammo weight is comparable.

Think of this: a springer carrying 20+ FPE at 50 yards, and even moving at slower speeds, it doesn't decelerate as fast because of all that mass.  Given how my .25 bucks the wind, the .30 is sure to do even better. 

I just took a peek at the reviews on PA- lots of happy owners- let that be your guide.   "A pellet in motion tends to stay in motion"  LOL





well said , it seems like everyone thinks a slow projectile is useless, but a slow 30 cal round will do some damage, all the energy is imparted  on target

I've a lot of perspective on accuracy and slow with heavy bullets. Another passion of mine is muzzleloaders... one of which is a volunteer, a replica of an 1860's thereabouts "military" rifle that it and the gun it replicated, the Whitworth, designed by Joseph Whitworth... who also figured out how to categorize screws so that there was some conformity in construction.. anyway... his guns shot 500 plus grain .451 caliber bullets that are accurate today out to 1,000 yards.. and very similar to many long range cartridge rifles of those hefty bullets that shoot at such ranges routine. Trajectory can of these projectiles can be measured in the 10's of yards on the way to target, but they strike in the black more often than not with a good shoulder behind the trigger... long, heavy, and slow.

Airguns.... I shoot the heaviest bullets I can find, not so much for wind, but for penetration and carry... something I just got used to with with my muzzleloaders. Accuracy lies with the shooter, and if you can get a heavy bullet to accurately leave your bore, IN MY OPINION, it will be more accurate downrange than a lighter bullet.

Now that being said, I just bought a mold for my Hatsan .30 breakaction that drops a 68 grain pellet/bullet actually and I'm hoping this helps helps offset the .11 per pellet one has to fork over for the .30 or 9mm. I'm curious what the drop in velocity would be from a 44.75 grain pellet to one of 68 grains.

Much Aloha..  8)
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: Rob M on December 31, 2016, 12:17:14 AM
Wow.. 68 grain will be quite the thumper !
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: HectorMedina on December 31, 2016, 12:50:51 PM

I've a lot of perspective on accuracy and slow with heavy bullets. Another passion of mine is muzzleloaders... one of which is a volunteer, a replica of an 1860's thereabouts "military" rifle that it and the gun it replicated, the Whitworth, designed by Joseph Whitworth... who also figured out how to categorize screws so that there was some conformity in construction.. anyway... his guns shot 500 plus grain .451 caliber bullets that are accurate today out to 1,000 yards.. and very similar to many long range cartridge rifles of those hefty bullets that shoot at such ranges routine. Trajectory can of these projectiles can be measured in the 10's of yards on the way to target, but they strike in the black more often than not with a good shoulder behind the trigger... long, heavy, and slow.

Airguns.... I shoot the heaviest bullets I can find, not so much for wind, but for penetration and carry... something I just got used to with with my muzzleloaders. Accuracy lies with the shooter, and if you can get a heavy bullet to accurately leave your bore, IN MY OPINION, it will be more accurate downrange than a lighter bullet.

Now that being said, I just bought a mold for my Hatsan .30 breakaction that drops a 68 grain pellet/bullet actually and I'm hoping this helps helps offset the .11 per pellet one has to fork over for the .30 or 9mm. I'm curious what the drop in velocity would be from a 44.75 grain pellet to one of 68 grains.

Much Aloha..  8)

Thanks for those comments!

Can you please tell me which mould you bought and what OD you expect your castings to come out at, or if you will be sizing, which diameter you will be sizing to?

I am assuming that as the knowledgeable shooter that you clearly are, you have slugged your barrel to order the right mould.

TIA!




HM

Off topic.- Are you casting the hex section bullets for your Whitworth? :-)
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: Rattus58 on December 31, 2016, 02:39:11 PM

I've a lot of perspective on accuracy and slow with heavy bullets. Another passion of mine is muzzleloaders... one of which is a volunteer, a replica of an 1860's thereabouts "military" rifle that it and the gun it replicated, the Whitworth, designed by Joseph Whitworth... who also figured out how to categorize screws so that there was some conformity in construction.. anyway... his guns shot 500 plus grain .451 caliber bullets that are accurate today out to 1,000 yards.. and very similar to many long range cartridge rifles of those hefty bullets that shoot at such ranges routine. Trajectory can of these projectiles can be measured in the 10's of yards on the way to target, but they strike in the black more often than not with a good shoulder behind the trigger... long, heavy, and slow.

Airguns.... I shoot the heaviest bullets I can find, not so much for wind, but for penetration and carry... something I just got used to with with my muzzleloaders. Accuracy lies with the shooter, and if you can get a heavy bullet to accurately leave your bore, IN MY OPINION, it will be more accurate downrange than a lighter bullet.

Now that being said, I just bought a mold for my Hatsan .30 breakaction that drops a 68 grain pellet/bullet actually and I'm hoping this helps helps offset the .11 per pellet one has to fork over for the .30 or 9mm. I'm curious what the drop in velocity would be from a 44.75 grain pellet to one of 68 grains.

Much Aloha..  8)

Thanks for those comments!

Can you please tell me which mould you bought and what OD you expect your castings to come out at, or if you will be sizing, which diameter you will be sizing to?

I am assuming that as the knowledgeable shooter that you clearly are, you have slugged your barrel to order the right mould.

TIA!




HM

Off topic.- Are you casting the hex section bullets for your Whitworth? :-)
I actually have the Volunteer that has Henry Rifling... however... an attorney friend of mine has a Whitworth Hexagonal and shoots my .451 490 grain bullets with little loss of any kind of accuracy. That is the genius of lead, and how amazingly close to velocity you can still get with the Whitworth and conical bullets. Sam Fadala tested the Whitworth with the same bullet I shoot unsized at .457 (Lyman Mold 457121) with superb accuracy. I bore sized mine to actually on the Volunteer, .452.

As to the Hatsan bullet, I got it from NOE... http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=374_378&products_id=3301&osCsid=ohgmu2q9evkiq64bgl7fpqk2p2 (http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=374_378&products_id=3301&osCsid=ohgmu2q9evkiq64bgl7fpqk2p2)

I don't know yet what the bore diameter is so haven't looked to sizing options just yet.

Aloha,

Tom 8)
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: Rattus58 on December 31, 2016, 03:05:23 PM
Wow.. 68 grain will be quite the thumper !

Haha.... Could be... that's what I'm hoping anyway... Someone posted on the testing the Hatsan thread that he was getting 565 fps with the 45 grain JSB and 545 fps with the 50 grain JSB. Willfully disregarding potential aerodynamic and mechanical foibles to such thinking, extending that 20 fps loss per 5 grains would translate to a 72 fps loss... (68-50=18 divided by 5 = 3.6 times 20 = 72 from 545 = 473 give yourself some slack =460 fps) or...

grains   68
speed   460
Bullet Diameter   0.3
KE   31.94316794
Momentum   0.138883339
momentum_1   1.388833389
Taylor   1.340571429

which is what I'm anticipating if it don't become a barrel obstuction... :) ...  Not to mention the economy of pouring my own lead... :D

Much Aloha... 8)
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: packard8 on December 31, 2016, 03:40:21 PM
Wow.. 68 grain will be quite the thumper !

Haha.... Could be... that's what I'm hoping anyway... Someone posted on the testing the Hatsan thread that he was getting 565 fps with the 45 grain JSB and 545 fps with the 50 grain JSB. Willfully disregarding potential aerodynamic and mechanical foibles to such thinking, extending that 20 fps loss per 5 grains would translate to a 72 fps loss... (68-50=18 divided by 5 = 3.6 times 20 = 72 from 545 = 473 give yourself some slack =460 fps) or...

grains   68
speed   460
Bullet Diameter   0.3
KE   31.94316794
Momentum   0.138883339
momentum_1   1.388833389
Taylor   1.340571429

which is what I'm anticipating if it don't become a barrel obstuction... :) ...  Not to mention the economy of pouring my own lead... :D

Much Aloha... 8)

If you go to Chairgun Pro and fudge the numbers for the JSB .30 pellet to 67gr @ 460 FPS you get 31.4 FPE at the muzzle, 28.8 FPE @ 15 yds. Just an approximation, but it shows a 92% retention of energy at short range and a 1.75" drop @ 15 yds. Of course this doesn't account for the projectile design and BC. If you ever "go into production" on the project, I'd buy a few just to play with ;)
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: Rattus58 on December 31, 2016, 04:16:03 PM
Wow.. 68 grain will be quite the thumper !

Haha.... Could be... that's what I'm hoping anyway... Someone posted on the testing the Hatsan thread that he was getting 565 fps with the 45 grain JSB and 545 fps with the 50 grain JSB. Willfully disregarding potential aerodynamic and mechanical foibles to such thinking, extending that 20 fps loss per 5 grains would translate to a 72 fps loss... (68-50=18 divided by 5 = 3.6 times 20 = 72 from 545 = 473 give yourself some slack =460 fps) or...

grains   68
speed   460
Bullet Diameter   0.3
KE   31.94316794
Momentum   0.138883339
momentum_1   1.388833389
Taylor   1.340571429

which is what I'm anticipating if it don't become a barrel obstuction... :) ...  Not to mention the economy of pouring my own lead... :D

Much Aloha... 8)

If you go to Chairgun Pro and fudge the numbers for the JSB .30 pellet to 67gr @ 460 FPS you get 31.4 FPE at the muzzle, 28.8 FPE @ 15 yds. Just an approximation, but it shows a 92% retention of energy at short range and a 1.75" drop @ 15 yds. Of course this doesn't account for the projectile design and BC. If you ever "go into production" on the project, I'd buy a few just to play with ;)

Ahhhhh Chairgun... had completely forgot about them ....  ;D  Thank you.... I'd be happy to share some with you for you to try out as soon as I get the mold... :D

Aloha.... 8)
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: Rattus58 on December 31, 2016, 05:09:05 PM
Wow.. 68 grain will be quite the thumper !

Haha.... Could be... that's what I'm hoping anyway... Someone posted on the testing the Hatsan thread that he was getting 565 fps with the 45 grain JSB and 545 fps with the 50 grain JSB. Willfully disregarding potential aerodynamic and mechanical foibles to such thinking, extending that 20 fps loss per 5 grains would translate to a 72 fps loss... (68-50=18 divided by 5 = 3.6 times 20 = 72 from 545 = 473 give yourself some slack =460 fps) or...

grains   68
speed   460
Bullet Diameter   0.3
KE   31.94316794
Momentum   0.138883339
momentum_1   1.388833389
Taylor   1.340571429

which is what I'm anticipating if it don't become a barrel obstuction... :) ...  Not to mention the economy of pouring my own lead... :D

Much Aloha... 8)

If you go to Chairgun Pro and fudge the numbers for the JSB .30 pellet to 67gr @ 460 FPS you get 31.4 FPE at the muzzle, 28.8 FPE @ 15 yds. Just an approximation, but it shows a 92% retention of energy at short range and a 1.75" drop @ 15 yds. Of course this doesn't account for the projectile design and BC. If you ever "go into production" on the project, I'd buy a few just to play with ;)

I went to Lee Precision website (http://leeprecision.com/bullet-casting/hand-gun-bullet-molds/ (http://leeprecision.com/bullet-casting/hand-gun-bullet-molds/))  and looked at Pistol molds and their BC for the various bullets they offer.  Being that a round ball is very similar to the pellet, and the even modest trashcan bullet is a .07, better, I plugged in a .1000 Ballistic Coefficient and got some surprising numbers down range. Using even a .08 Ballistic Coefficient with this bullet... ASSUMING IT LEAVES THE BARREL AS CONJECTURED..... A Plus Plus....  ;D

Thanks for the reminder !!

Aloha,

Tom 8)
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: packard8 on December 31, 2016, 05:23:23 PM
 
I went to Lee Precision website (http://leeprecision.com/bullet-casting/hand-gun-bullet-molds/ (http://leeprecision.com/bullet-casting/hand-gun-bullet-molds/))  and looked at Pistol molds and their BC for the various bullets they offer.  Being that a round ball is very similar to the pellet, and the even modest trashcan bullet is a .07, better, I plugged in a .1000 Ballistic Coefficient and got some surprising numbers down range. Using even a .08 Ballistic Coefficient with this bullet... ASSUMING IT LEAVES THE BARREL AS CONJECTURED..... A Plus Plus....  ;D

Thanks for the reminder !!

Aloha,

Tom 8)

The real world results will be interesting for sure. I saw a utube vid of a guy hitting silhouettes with a .45 ACP (230gr @ 750 FPS?) from as far as 200 yds. He said his holdover was about 4 feet at that range :o.

Cheers,

John
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: Rattus58 on December 31, 2016, 06:06:35 PM
 
I went to Lee Precision website (http://leeprecision.com/bullet-casting/hand-gun-bullet-molds/ (http://leeprecision.com/bullet-casting/hand-gun-bullet-molds/))  and looked at Pistol molds and their BC for the various bullets they offer.  Being that a round ball is very similar to the pellet, and the even modest trashcan bullet is a .07, better, I plugged in a .1000 Ballistic Coefficient and got some surprising numbers down range. Using even a .08 Ballistic Coefficient with this bullet... ASSUMING IT LEAVES THE BARREL AS CONJECTURED..... A Plus Plus....  ;D

Thanks for the reminder !!

Aloha,

Tom 8)

The real world results will be interesting for sure. I saw a utube vid of a guy hitting silhouettes with a .45 ACP (230gr @ 750 FPS?) from as far as 200 yds. He said his holdover was about 4 feet at that range :o.

Cheers,

John
Haha..... yup.... Knows all about that... for a time there, a few of us "Dirty White Boys" (White Muzzleloader Cult types.. ;D) was trying to sight in for 200 yard zero....  well... all is well and good with hitting the black at 200 yards.... just at 25 yards, if you was huntin... you'd pretty much be aiming at its feet... ;D....
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: Leonard on February 10, 2019, 09:17:04 AM
For close range I love my Hatsan 130s, under $200.00/199.00 I could not be happier. Within
30 yards it's dead on actuate and slaps with a hard slap ! Perfect for my backyard on a creek greenbelt. Skunks and possum's are quick kill with this affordable air rifle.
Poor man's dream 😆
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: Yogi on February 10, 2019, 02:05:14 PM
The down-range power is pretty awesome.  I shoot a .25 Hatsan 95QE and it destroys squirrels; it isn't a hyper-velocity springer but Gets The Job Done..  Perhaps the most telling YouTube review I've seen of the .30 is Rick Eutsler's.... but I haven't read anything bad by people that own one here on the GTA.

I also look at things this way: I've killed a lot of pest birds using sling-shots with 1/4" and 5/16" steel ball ammo.  They were moving a lot slower than the .30 caliber pellets coming from the big-bore Hatsan, and ammo weight is comparable.

Think of this: a springer carrying 20+ FPE at 50 yards, and even moving at slower speeds, it doesn't decelerate as fast because of all that mass.  Given how my .25 bucks the wind, the .30 is sure to do even better. 

I just took a peek at the reviews on PA- lots of happy owners- let that be your guide.   "A pellet in motion tends to stay in motion"  LOL





well said , it seems like everyone thinks a slow projectile is useless, but a slow 30 cal round will do some damage, all the energy is imparted  on target

I've a lot of perspective on accuracy and slow with heavy bullets. Another passion of mine is muzzleloaders... one of which is a volunteer, a replica of an 1860's thereabouts "military" rifle that it and the gun it replicated, the Whitworth, designed by Joseph Whitworth... who also figured out how to categorize screws so that there was some conformity in construction.. anyway... his guns shot 500 plus grain .451 caliber bullets that are accurate today out to 1,000 yards.. and very similar to many long range cartridge rifles of those hefty bullets that shoot at such ranges routine. Trajectory can of these projectiles can be measured in the 10's of yards on the way to target, but they strike in the black more often than not with a good shoulder behind the trigger... long, heavy, and slow.

Airguns.... I shoot the heaviest bullets I can find, not so much for wind, but for penetration and carry... something I just got used to with with my muzzleloaders. Accuracy lies with the shooter, and if you can get a heavy bullet to accurately leave your bore, IN MY OPINION, it will be more accurate downrange than a lighter bullet.

Now that being said, I just bought a mold for my Hatsan .30 breakaction that drops a 68 grain pellet/bullet actually and I'm hoping this helps helps offset the .11 per pellet one has to fork over for the .30 or 9mm. I'm curious what the drop in velocity would be from a 44.75 grain pellet to one of 68 grains.

Much Aloha..  8)

My Norton has Whitworth sized fasteners.  What a PITA! ;) ;) 8)

-Y
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: packard8 on February 10, 2019, 02:53:02 PM
My Norton has Whitworth sized fasteners.  What a PITA! ;) ;) 8)

-Y

Years later I still miss my 1973 850 Commando!
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: packard8 on February 10, 2019, 02:54:55 PM
For close range I love my Hatsan 130s, under $200.00/199.00 I could not be happier. Within
30 yards it's dead on actuate and slaps with a hard slap ! Perfect for my backyard on a creek greenbelt. Skunks and possum's are quick kill with this affordable air rifle.
Poor man's dream 😆

They do have a satisfying  THWACK on impact!
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: jh45gun on April 15, 2019, 07:24:04 AM
I suspect those naysayer's here never shot one. Lots of folks love them and shoot out to 50 yards easy. Loopy trajectory lol that's why airgunners use scopes with Mildots or extra lines. Yes I own a 130. Haven't shot it much, but what I see I like and I did a lot of research before buying.
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: Rattus58 on April 15, 2019, 01:51:19 PM
WAY TOO large a caliber for a "Practical" spring / ram piston air gun.
Unique for sure and being sold under the disguise bigger is better ... in this case simply not true.

JMO ...
Why is it too large? My is quite accurate and provides a few minutes of thump time trying to cock it... the only complaint I have with this gun, is that for hunting, I'm not convinced that this caliber WITH PELLETS is going to be satisfactory. I have some Bob's bullets from NOE that I've cast for this gun, and it is a pain in the okole... it needs to be sized and you almost have to hammer it in to the .30 and so is not worth the effort without a proper sizer for it... however, these give better penetration than pellets do, tho traveling at a reduced velocity... totally unsatisfactory in my opinion.... otherwise

Shooting game with this would be interesting to see how it works, I've not had the opportunity to hunt anything worthwhile (pigs or goats) with these guns yet.

Too big... more like too cumbersome than too big... but Hatsan... you know... grown men...  8)

Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: Mossonarock on April 16, 2019, 09:29:36 AM
Rattus58,
You are in the process of casting bullets for your .30 cal break barrel?
Please keep us informed of how that goes for you.
I have a 130 in .30 cal and, although I really like the rifle, I don't use it much mostly because I'm working out my .25 cal Dominator for now. I'd really like to know what game people have been able to hunt with their .30 cal break barrels. The rifles have been around for awhile. Surely folks got stories to tell.
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: maraudinglizard on April 16, 2019, 10:24:25 AM
Rattus58,
You are in the process of casting bullets for your .30 cal break barrel?
Please keep us informed of how that goes for you.
I have a 130 in .30 cal and, although I really like the rifle, I don't use it much mostly because I'm working out my .25 cal Dominator for now. I'd really like to know what game people have been able to hunt with their .30 cal break barrels. The rifles have been around for awhile. Surely folks got stories to tell.

I use my 135QE for coon and possum that are trap wise. I cast the .30 pellets in 46gr. for it. This not a long range gun 35yds is the max for it as far as power and accuracy. Most of the game I have taken with it is 20yds or less. I do plink with this gun for the work out and the accuracy challenge it presents.  I wouldn't shoot anything bigger than 20lbs with this gun. I have other guns that are more capable of taking larger game humanely.
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: Rattus58 on April 20, 2019, 01:38:41 PM
Rattus58,
You are in the process of casting bullets for your .30 cal break barrel?
Please keep us informed of how that goes for you.
I have a 130 in .30 cal and, although I really like the rifle, I don't use it much mostly because I'm working out my .25 cal Dominator for now. I'd really like to know what game people have been able to hunt with their .30 cal break barrels. The rifles have been around for awhile. Surely folks got stories to tell.

I use my 135QE for coon and possum that are trap wise. I cast the .30 pellets in 46gr. for it. This not a long range gun 35yds is the max for it as far as power and accuracy. Most of the game I have taken with it is 20yds or less. I do plink with this gun for the work out and the accuracy challenge it presents.  I wouldn't shoot anything bigger than 20lbs with this gun. I have other guns that are more capable of taking larger game humanely.
Where did you get your pellet mold from? A pellet is much easier to load into my barrel than the slug I've cast from NOE...  8) at least for now...  ;D
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: maraudinglizard on April 20, 2019, 02:53:22 PM
Rattus58,
You are in the process of casting bullets for your .30 cal break barrel?
Please keep us informed of how that goes for you.
I have a 130 in .30 cal and, although I really like the rifle, I don't use it much mostly because I'm working out my .25 cal Dominator for now. I'd really like to know what game people have been able to hunt with their .30 cal break barrels. The rifles have been around for awhile. Surely folks got stories to tell.

I use my 135QE for coon and possum that are trap wise. I cast the .30 pellets in 46gr. for it. This not a long range gun 35yds is the max for it as far as power and accuracy. Most of the game I have taken with it is 20yds or less. I do plink with this gun for the work out and the accuracy challenge it presents.  I wouldn't shoot anything bigger than 20lbs with this gun. I have other guns that are more capable of taking larger game humanely.
Where did you get your pellet mold from? A pellet is much easier to load into my barrel than the slug I've cast from NOE...  8) at least for now...  ;D

The mold is from NOE. I use the deepest based pin which will produce the 46gr pellet.

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=30_532&products_id=4750 (http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=30_532&products_id=4750)
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: A.K.A. Tommy Boy on April 20, 2019, 11:42:28 PM
Rattus58,
You are in the process of casting bullets for your .30 cal break barrel?
Please keep us informed of how that goes for you.
I have a 130 in .30 cal and, although I really like the rifle, I don't use it much mostly because I'm working out my .25 cal Dominator for now. I'd really like to know what game people have been able to hunt with their .30 cal break barrels. The rifles have been around for awhile. Surely folks got stories to tell.

I use my 135QE for coon and possum that are trap wise. I cast the .30 pellets in 46gr. for it. This not a long range gun 35yds is the max for it as far as power and accuracy. Most of the game I have taken with it is 20yds or less. I do plink with this gun for the work out and the accuracy challenge it presents.  I wouldn't shoot anything bigger than 20lbs with this gun. I have other guns that are more capable of taking larger game humanely.

NO Kris...........YOU have LOTS of other guns !   ;D ;D ;D


Best Wishes - Tom
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: maraudinglizard on April 21, 2019, 08:26:06 AM
Rattus58,
You are in the process of casting bullets for your .30 cal break barrel?
Please keep us informed of how that goes for you.
I have a 130 in .30 cal and, although I really like the rifle, I don't use it much mostly because I'm working out my .25 cal Dominator for now. I'd really like to know what game people have been able to hunt with their .30 cal break barrels. The rifles have been around for awhile. Surely folks got stories to tell.

I use my 135QE for coon and possum that are trap wise. I cast the .30 pellets in 46gr. for it. This not a long range gun 35yds is the max for it as far as power and accuracy. Most of the game I have taken with it is 20yds or less. I do plink with this gun for the work out and the accuracy challenge it presents.  I wouldn't shoot anything bigger than 20lbs with this gun. I have other guns that are more capable of taking larger game humanely.

NO Kris...........YOU have LOTS of other guns !   ;D ;D ;D


Best Wishes - Tom

Yeah Tom, I gotta have the right tool(gun) for the right job. ;)
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: Rattus58 on April 22, 2019, 06:36:46 PM
Rattus58,
You are in the process of casting bullets for your .30 cal break barrel?
Please keep us informed of how that goes for you.
I have a 130 in .30 cal and, although I really like the rifle, I don't use it much mostly because I'm working out my .25 cal Dominator for now. I'd really like to know what game people have been able to hunt with their .30 cal break barrels. The rifles have been around for awhile. Surely folks got stories to tell.

I use my 135QE for coon and possum that are trap wise. I cast the .30 pellets in 46gr. for it. This not a long range gun 35yds is the max for it as far as power and accuracy. Most of the game I have taken with it is 20yds or less. I do plink with this gun for the work out and the accuracy challenge it presents.  I wouldn't shoot anything bigger than 20lbs with this gun. I have other guns that are more capable of taking larger game humanely.
Where did you get your pellet mold from? A pellet is much easier to load into my barrel than the slug I've cast from NOE...  8) at least for now...  ;D

The mold is from NOE. I use the deepest based pin which will produce the 46gr pellet.

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=30_532&products_id=4750 (http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=30_532&products_id=4750)

Thank you... I'll look into this! Much Aloha..  8)
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: Rattus58 on April 22, 2019, 06:43:43 PM
Ok... as for casting... I'll take some pictures of these... not coming out as clean as I'd like them to be overall... have to heavily smoke the mold to try to reduce the diameter some as these don't fit the barrel of my .30 without pounding it in. The bullets cast at .302 on average but are all manner of trial and tribulation to get loaded... I'm going to try to make a rudimentary sizer for this and see what I can do about squeezing them down a bit... .002 doesn't seem like that even is going to do it at this point tho...  :-\
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: Rattus58 on April 24, 2019, 10:40:32 PM
Well I cast some of these 68 grain NOE pellets last night and shot 5 of them this morning onto a target. In current fashion, hammered in literally, group turned out to be a satisfying 5" at 15 yards...  8) After sizing, I'm hoping for better group... penetration of these is fantastic when they hit head on... can't get through a wet and split 3/4" plywood backing sideways... which seemed to be the norm... JSB 51 grain pellets on the other hand (this is offhand and no rest, open sights) could be covered with a dime... nickel for sure... so looking for feedback on anyone who has shot a molded traditional looking pellet in .30 caliber that I can cast myself.


I did also buy a BT65 30 this morning... and I'm looking for comments on that as well...

Much aloha...  8)
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: HectorMedina on April 25, 2019, 11:11:37 AM
Tom;

I THINK there are two problems  at work here:
One is that, as the mould dimensions stand, they would seem to be better suited to shoot out of SAAMI 0.30" cal / 7.62 mm's barrels, but airgun barrels are thinner.
An additional problem is that the punch used is too short and the weight distribution is completely wrong for the slow MV of the springer.
We need to remember that CoP is dependent on the speed at which the pellet is fired and it changes as the velocity decreases. When the CoP and the CoG start swapping places, strange things happen.

Increasing the punch length as much as possible will reduce the weight, allow a higher MV, and make the skirt thinner.
Once that is done, then setting the pellets into the rifling (like short-starting a Muzzle loading bullet), marking the 12 OÇlock position, and then pulling them out, tumbling them to remove swarf, and then firing them in the marked position, should tell us a lot of what is really happening.

I wonder if NOE could make a mould with a 0.297" head diameter and a 0.300" skirt diameter. With punches that use the same cone shape and angle, so that the skirt can be cast as thin, or as thick, as the gun will shoot them adequately.

Just a few ideas.

Keep well and shoot straight!




HM
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: Mossonarock on April 26, 2019, 11:02:49 AM
Hector, Those are very interesting ideas! Thanks for sharing your insight.
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: Rattus58 on April 26, 2019, 05:40:40 PM
Tom;

I THINK there are two problems  at work here:
One is that, as the mould dimensions stand, they would seem to be better suited to shoot out of SAAMI 0.30" cal / 7.62 mm's barrels, but airgun barrels are thinner.
An additional problem is that the punch used is too short and the weight distribution is completely wrong for the slow MV of the springer.
We need to remember that CoP is dependent on the speed at which the pellet is fired and it changes as the velocity decreases. When the CoP and the CoG start swapping places, strange things happen.

Increasing the punch length as much as possible will reduce the weight, allow a higher MV, and make the skirt thinner.
Once that is done, then setting the pellets into the rifling (like short-starting a Muzzle loading bullet), marking the 12 OÇlock position, and then pulling them out, tumbling them to remove swarf, and then firing them in the marked position, should tell us a lot of what is really happening.

I wonder if NOE could make a mould with a 0.297" head diameter and a 0.300" skirt diameter. With punches that use the same cone shape and angle, so that the skirt can be cast as thin, or as thick, as the gun will shoot them adequately.

Just a few ideas.

Keep well and shoot straight!

HM
I should probably clarify what I'm talking about here...
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: Rattus58 on April 27, 2019, 01:15:59 AM
Tom;

I THINK there are two problems  at work here:
One is that, as the mould dimensions stand, they would seem to be better suited to shoot out of SAAMI 0.30" cal / 7.62 mm's barrels, but airgun barrels are thinner.
An additional problem is that the punch used is too short and the weight distribution is completely wrong for the slow MV of the springer.
We need to remember that CoP is dependent on the speed at which the pellet is fired and it changes as the velocity decreases. When the CoP and the CoG start swapping places, strange things happen.

Increasing the punch length as much as possible will reduce the weight, allow a higher MV, and make the skirt thinner.
Once that is done, then setting the pellets into the rifling (like short-starting a Muzzle loading bullet), marking the 12 OÇlock position, and then pulling them out, tumbling them to remove swarf, and then firing them in the marked position, should tell us a lot of what is really happening.

I wonder if NOE could make a mould with a 0.297" head diameter and a 0.300" skirt diameter. With punches that use the same cone shape and angle, so that the skirt can be cast as thin, or as thick, as the gun will shoot them adequately.

Just a few ideas.

Keep well and shoot straight!




HM
This bullet isn't really a pellet, tho I was admonished, anything in a pellet gun is a pellet, this is a conical boat tailed "slug" of sorts @ 68 grains.
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: Back_Roads on April 27, 2019, 09:37:24 AM
 I have cast some of the BBT in .22 and .25 in pure tin, they are light enough to shoot well out of a magnum break barrel then.
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: HectorMedina on April 29, 2019, 04:34:47 PM
I should probably clarify what I'm talking about here...

OOoops!

Since in your December post you WERE talking about the Bullet (your link, BTW, took me to a dead end), but then in the April posts between you and ML the pellet mould was mentioned, I thought you were casting the pellet.

The Tin idea seems good, but I don't know if there would be any economy there. Pure tin is expensive (10X the price of lead), and the purer you get it, the softer it is, so for airgun use, you need to use reasonably pure tin. But it definitely is doable.

I would consider seriously casting that bullet out of pure tin (99.99%) just for kicks and giggles, and/or cajoling NOE to make you a proper sized pellet mould.
Pellets (proper, Diabolo shaped pellets) are much more forgiving of MV's and rifling characteristics. They are almost self stable(without rifling/smoothbore barrels) at MV's of up to about 500 fps. From there, even very long twists seem to stabilize them properly.

Apologies for the mix-up!








HM
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: MMshtr on May 02, 2019, 07:41:08 AM
I love my .30 Hatsan.   The most powerful break barrel in the world.  I dig that.   Not hard to cock at all. I'm 155 lbs.  I wish it had a stronger ram. Soooooo....I purchased a stronger Gas ram and have yet to install it.     I have a variety of pellets from 45 through 66.6 gn.    This rifle is amazingly quiet too.  With a scope it's pretty accurate.  I'm not a hunter but i think this would take down a 100 lb. pig or a small deer.   The woodchucks on my property better not wet me of.
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: mac1029 on May 06, 2019, 11:51:55 PM
I love my .30 Hatsan.   The most powerful break barrel in the world.  I dig that.   Not hard to cock at all. I'm 155 lbs.  I wish it had a stronger ram. Soooooo....I purchased a stronger Gas ram and have yet to install it.     I have a variety of pellets from 45 through 66.6 gn.    This rifle is amazingly quiet too.  With a scope it's pretty accurate.  I'm not a hunter but i think this would take down a 100 lb. pig or a small deer.   The woodchucks on my property better not wet me of.
Where did you get the stronger ram? Link please. Love my 135 but hey would love to get as much out of her as i can.... :D
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: Back_Roads on May 07, 2019, 08:56:33 AM
 A stronger ram in a 135 probably not a good idea, accuracy will suffer. Many detune the Hatsan factory rams, they can also be boosted with a PCP hand pump and hatsan fill probe, if you want to see where more power will get you.
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: Rob M on May 07, 2019, 06:37:56 PM
be nice to know how the stronger ram works out.. chris at cap airguns many years ago used to sell patriots and such with 36-40 fpe.
Title: Re: Big bore break barrels?????
Post by: a279 on June 30, 2019, 02:25:41 AM
I love my .30 Hatsan.   The most powerful break barrel in the world.  I dig that.   Not hard to cock at all. I'm 155 lbs.  I wish it had a stronger ram. Soooooo....I purchased a stronger Gas ram and have yet to install it.     I have a variety of pellets from 45 through 66.6 gn.    This rifle is amazingly quiet too.  With a scope it's pretty accurate.  I'm not a hunter but i think this would take down a 100 lb. pig or a small deer.   The woodchucks on my property better not wet me of.
Where did you get the stronger ram? Link please. Love my 135 but hey would love to get as much out of her as i can.... :D

I too am interested. They have 135s on sale new at Hatsanusa for 239 plus 10 s+h through email. I wonder if this means a new model is in the works.