"But, I would want a scope with a full turn or more for AO so I have some room to mark."I really don't have a good answer for you as it pertains to what is available but the AO of my 4-12x50 Hawke AirMax rotates less than 180 degrees from 10 yards to infinity and even less at airgun ranges, plus it lacks an illuminated reticle.Had I known about this "feature" plus the really stiff to turn AO I never would have bought the AirMax with AO.On the other hand, the AO of my cheaper 4-12x50 Hawke Vantage rotates almost 360 degrees from 10 yards to infinity and almost 360 "total degrees" since the AO rotates a bit past infinity and a bit less than 10 yards. While I also prefer the simplicity of the AO scopes I'm currently using a cheap UTG Compact SWAT scope with sidewheel. The sidewheel is more convenient to adjust, easier to turn, plus the diameter of the attached sidewheel is considerably larger than my AO scopes with 50mm objectives.Perhaps those more "scope savvy" can help with your questions.
My question is this?What part of Texas do you live in where you can't go outside of town and shoot?In the city, no doubt.Will somebody in Texas help this shooter?
So, can you achieve any level of proficiency in this game if the only place you can consistently shoot without driving an hour is under 15 yards?I'm finding my lack of ability to a) practice beyond 15 yards, b) range beyond 15 yards c) gather ballistic data beyond 15 yards, d) try to bracket, e) learn how to dope the wind to be incredibly frustrating. I can't change anything or even check my zero for poi shifts unless it shows up under 15 yards.I've taken Bob's advice of trying to master the short targets, so I should be good if it's 10-15 because I can blow the snot out of a 3/8" bull at those ranges but I can't do a durn thing else. None of my data fits Chairgun. I can't use PP calc because I cant shoot groups beyond 15.I cant upgrade or change hardware without invoking the ordeal of re-shooting everything and creating a bunch of new uncertainty.This is really pretty much impossible with a springer, isn't it?
Quote from: TwiceHorn on June 06, 2017, 09:20:38 PMSo, can you achieve any level of proficiency in this game if the only place you can consistently shoot without driving an hour is under 15 yards?I'm finding my lack of ability to a) practice beyond 15 yards, b) range beyond 15 yards c) gather ballistic data beyond 15 yards, d) try to bracket, e) learn how to dope the wind to be incredibly frustrating. I can't change anything or even check my zero for poi shifts unless it shows up under 15 yards.I've taken Bob's advice of trying to master the short targets, so I should be good if it's 10-15 because I can blow the snot out of a 3/8" bull at those ranges but I can't do a durn thing else. None of my data fits Chairgun. I can't use PP calc because I cant shoot groups beyond 15.I cant upgrade or change hardware without invoking the ordeal of re-shooting everything and creating a bunch of new uncertainty.This is really pretty much impossible with a springer, isn't it?Sure you can. When I got my first springer, I ONLY shot at 15 yards- not because I didn't have land to shoot on, but because that's a fantastic range for simulating near perfect conditions and really being able to blame any inaccuracy on ones self rather than the wind. Just my $.02, master 15yds with your springer, when you feel you are the best 15yd springer shooter you can be, get a PCP and figure out a way to make it work. If you have a scope with mil dots, work on your ranging/wind skills using small numbers. Always the same basic concepts for a shooter with no spotter: no matter the range.(Size of target in yards x 1000) / height of target in mils = Range in yards[(Range in Yards x .01) x Estimated Wind Speed MPH]/ X, Y, or Z = wind correction in milsIf wind is blowing at a 90 degree angle from the muzzle, use X = 10""45 degree angle"" Y=15""20 degree angle"" Z=21If wind is directly in front or behind you, 0 wind correctionKeep in mind 2mph of wind can't be felt, but will undeniably move your pelet over longer distances.Master these formulas, master the Mil-dots at 10x zoom, understand how the weather (temp, humidity, sunlight) affects POI.. if you really want to become exceptional, you must be driven to find different ranges with different angles, wind directions, climate, etc. but first, master what you have good man. you don't need a super expensive scope to shoot airguns.. DEFINITELY don't want one on most springers. If it holds a solid zero and has accurate spaced mils, you can get by just fine with a relatively inexpensive UTG or whatever. When you get an expensive scope ($500+), in my experience, you are paying for lenses with less imperfections that look clearer on high zoom as well as give better eye relief, and you are paying for turrets that adjust with virtual perfection. Honestly, unless you're a pro competitor or it's well within your means, I'd stick with scopes that are between half and equal the price of the airgun. Good luck Rick
Quote from: PelletsForPests on June 10, 2017, 12:43:37 PMQuote from: TwiceHorn on June 06, 2017, 09:20:38 PMSo, can you achieve any level of proficiency in this game if the only place you can consistently shoot without driving an hour is under 15 yards?I'm finding my lack of ability to a) practice beyond 15 yards, b) range beyond 15 yards c) gather ballistic data beyond 15 yards, d) try to bracket, e) learn how to dope the wind to be incredibly frustrating. I can't change anything or even check my zero for poi shifts unless it shows up under 15 yards.I've taken Bob's advice of trying to master the short targets, so I should be good if it's 10-15 because I can blow the snot out of a 3/8" bull at those ranges but I can't do a durn thing else. None of my data fits Chairgun. I can't use PP calc because I cant shoot groups beyond 15.I cant upgrade or change hardware without invoking the ordeal of re-shooting everything and creating a bunch of new uncertainty.This is really pretty much impossible with a springer, isn't it?Sure you can. When I got my first springer, I ONLY shot at 15 yards- not because I didn't have land to shoot on, but because that's a fantastic range for simulating near perfect conditions and really being able to blame any inaccuracy on ones self rather than the wind. Just my $.02, master 15yds with your springer, when you feel you are the best 15yd springer shooter you can be, get a PCP and figure out a way to make it work. If you have a scope with mil dots, work on your ranging/wind skills using small numbers. Always the same basic concepts for a shooter with no spotter: no matter the range.(Size of target in yards x 1000) / height of target in mils = Range in yards[(Range in Yards x .01) x Estimated Wind Speed MPH]/ X, Y, or Z = wind correction in milsIf wind is blowing at a 90 degree angle from the muzzle, use X = 10""45 degree angle"" Y=15""20 degree angle"" Z=21If wind is directly in front or behind you, 0 wind correctionKeep in mind 2mph of wind can't be felt, but will undeniably move your pelet over longer distances.Master these formulas, master the Mil-dots at 10x zoom, understand how the weather (temp, humidity, sunlight) affects POI.. if you really want to become exceptional, you must be driven to find different ranges with different angles, wind directions, climate, etc. but first, master what you have good man. you don't need a super expensive scope to shoot airguns.. DEFINITELY don't want one on most springers. If it holds a solid zero and has accurate spaced mils, you can get by just fine with a relatively inexpensive UTG or whatever. When you get an expensive scope ($500+), in my experience, you are paying for lenses with less imperfections that look clearer on high zoom as well as give better eye relief, and you are paying for turrets that adjust with virtual perfection. Honestly, unless you're a pro competitor or it's well within your means, I'd stick with scopes that are between half and equal the price of the airgun. Good luck RickI left out the indoor part.
Quote from: TwiceHorn on June 10, 2017, 01:26:29 PMQuote from: PelletsForPests on June 10, 2017, 12:43:37 PMQuote from: TwiceHorn on June 06, 2017, 09:20:38 PMSo, can you achieve any level of proficiency in this game if the only place you can consistently shoot without driving an hour is under 15 yards?I'm finding my lack of ability to a) practice beyond 15 yards, b) range beyond 15 yards c) gather ballistic data beyond 15 yards, d) try to bracket, e) learn how to dope the wind to be incredibly frustrating. I can't change anything or even check my zero for poi shifts unless it shows up under 15 yards.I've taken Bob's advice of trying to master the short targets, so I should be good if it's 10-15 because I can blow the snot out of a 3/8" bull at those ranges but I can't do a durn thing else. None of my data fits Chairgun. I can't use PP calc because I cant shoot groups beyond 15.I cant upgrade or change hardware without invoking the ordeal of re-shooting everything and creating a bunch of new uncertainty.This is really pretty much impossible with a springer, isn't it?Sure you can. When I got my first springer, I ONLY shot at 15 yards- not because I didn't have land to shoot on, but because that's a fantastic range for simulating near perfect conditions and really being able to blame any inaccuracy on ones self rather than the wind. Just my $.02, master 15yds with your springer, when you feel you are the best 15yd springer shooter you can be, get a PCP and figure out a way to make it work. If you have a scope with mil dots, work on your ranging/wind skills using small numbers. Always the same basic concepts for a shooter with no spotter: no matter the range.(Size of target in yards x 1000) / height of target in mils = Range in yards[(Range in Yards x .01) x Estimated Wind Speed MPH]/ X, Y, or Z = wind correction in milsIf wind is blowing at a 90 degree angle from the muzzle, use X = 10""45 degree angle"" Y=15""20 degree angle"" Z=21If wind is directly in front or behind you, 0 wind correctionKeep in mind 2mph of wind can't be felt, but will undeniably move your pelet over longer distances.Master these formulas, master the Mil-dots at 10x zoom, understand how the weather (temp, humidity, sunlight) affects POI.. if you really want to become exceptional, you must be driven to find different ranges with different angles, wind directions, climate, etc. but first, master what you have good man. you don't need a super expensive scope to shoot airguns.. DEFINITELY don't want one on most springers. If it holds a solid zero and has accurate spaced mils, you can get by just fine with a relatively inexpensive UTG or whatever. When you get an expensive scope ($500+), in my experience, you are paying for lenses with less imperfections that look clearer on high zoom as well as give better eye relief, and you are paying for turrets that adjust with virtual perfection. Honestly, unless you're a pro competitor or it's well within your means, I'd stick with scopes that are between half and equal the price of the airgun. Good luck RickI left out the indoor part.Oh this is the field target gate. sorry, I've never shot a pellet gun indoors.
Quote from: PelletsForPests on June 10, 2017, 01:34:03 PMQuote from: TwiceHorn on June 10, 2017, 01:26:29 PMQuote from: PelletsForPests on June 10, 2017, 12:43:37 PMQuote from: TwiceHorn on June 06, 2017, 09:20:38 PMSo, can you achieve any level of proficiency in this game if the only place you can consistently shoot without driving an hour is under 15 yards?I'm finding my lack of ability to a) practice beyond 15 yards, b) range beyond 15 yards c) gather ballistic data beyond 15 yards, d) try to bracket, e) learn how to dope the wind to be incredibly frustrating. I can't change anything or even check my zero for poi shifts unless it shows up under 15 yards.I've taken Bob's advice of trying to master the short targets, so I should be good if it's 10-15 because I can blow the snot out of a 3/8" bull at those ranges but I can't do a durn thing else. None of my data fits Chairgun. I can't use PP calc because I cant shoot groups beyond 15.I cant upgrade or change hardware without invoking the ordeal of re-shooting everything and creating a bunch of new uncertainty.This is really pretty much impossible with a springer, isn't it?Sure you can. When I got my first springer, I ONLY shot at 15 yards- not because I didn't have land to shoot on, but because that's a fantastic range for simulating near perfect conditions and really being able to blame any inaccuracy on ones self rather than the wind. Just my $.02, master 15yds with your springer, when you feel you are the best 15yd springer shooter you can be, get a PCP and figure out a way to make it work. If you have a scope with mil dots, work on your ranging/wind skills using small numbers. Always the same basic concepts for a shooter with no spotter: no matter the range.(Size of target in yards x 1000) / height of target in mils = Range in yards[(Range in Yards x .01) x Estimated Wind Speed MPH]/ X, Y, or Z = wind correction in milsIf wind is blowing at a 90 degree angle from the muzzle, use X = 10""45 degree angle"" Y=15""20 degree angle"" Z=21If wind is directly in front or behind you, 0 wind correctionKeep in mind 2mph of wind can't be felt, but will undeniably move your pelet over longer distances.Master these formulas, master the Mil-dots at 10x zoom, understand how the weather (temp, humidity, sunlight) affects POI.. if you really want to become exceptional, you must be driven to find different ranges with different angles, wind directions, climate, etc. but first, master what you have good man. you don't need a super expensive scope to shoot airguns.. DEFINITELY don't want one on most springers. If it holds a solid zero and has accurate spaced mils, you can get by just fine with a relatively inexpensive UTG or whatever. When you get an expensive scope ($500+), in my experience, you are paying for lenses with less imperfections that look clearer on high zoom as well as give better eye relief, and you are paying for turrets that adjust with virtual perfection. Honestly, unless you're a pro competitor or it's well within your means, I'd stick with scopes that are between half and equal the price of the airgun. Good luck RickI left out the indoor part.Oh this is the field target gate. sorry, I've never shot a pellet gun indoors.Haha no worries. I think you're right, but there are some peculiar problems with FT that make it very hard to adequately prepare for matches without some ability to shoot longer ranges.One feature of PCPs that you dont hear much about, that my newb friend points out, is that without the recoil, you can reliably see where your pellet hit in most cases and let you correct for the second shot. Without a new mark on the fresh paint of a faceplate, I'm fairly helpless in that department.
Mark,Until you practice at "real" FT ranges, your results will continue to be underwhelming. No amount of software can bridge the gap between 15 & 55 yards. I have told you that I will inspect your gun and insure it is accurate and repeatable. As you mentioned I also offered to let you shoot at ASC so you can practice different distances. I understand that you work, but it's the weekend, why aren't you at the range?
Mark, where in Dallas are you? I'm in Lewisville and have 18yds in the backyard with more available at certain times.
Quote from: jentry on June 19, 2017, 04:13:52 PMMark, where in Dallas are you? I'm in Lewisville and have 18yds in the backyard with more available at certain times.Hey, Jentry, thanks. I'm in central Dallas, which is a big part of my problem. I'm rifle-less now, but Paul K, whom I'm sure you've met, is in a similar boat as me, and you, except when you have the "more available at certain times." He, too, is anxious to shoot at longer ranges. He regularly shoots in the 40s at our matches, though, so a lot less anxious than I am.