Disco SSG
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Disco SSG
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Topic: Disco SSG (Read 6200 times))
Machinist
gun go BOOOOM
Marksman
Posts: 417
yes
Real Name: Steve
Re: Disco SSG
«
Reply #40 on:
August 13, 2017, 11:40:11 PM »
Bummer...
Broke the bolt handle today. I thought it was kinda hard to cock with the 9 LB spring I had in there. I just increased the preload too. I had been trying different springs to get more power, guess I went too far. I haven't been gentle with it, I yank the thing back, load a pellet and shoot. I guess it lasted 1,000 rounds or so. All the SSG parts still look good, so things could be worse.
I had been wondering for a while if the tube was getting galled. I took it apart and it looks fine. Got lucky there. I hoped to get this thing working with the stock striker, and that might be possible at 20 FPE or so, but I'm gonna make a new steel hammer with a deeper hole, so I can use a longer spring. Gonna recess the front .050" to get a longer throw too. Might try making it 10% heavier also. Just play around and see what happens.
I shot a 27 shot string with only a 15 fps spread the other day. That was with an 11 LB spring. Maybe I have an air lock, and heavy springs overcome that? Gonna flute the new hammer.
I was hoping to hit the valve hard enough so I could increase the SSG gap slightly, still have power, and a high shot count.
Ric received his SSG last week, hopefully he has better luck. I'm going to plan B.
Steve
«
Last Edit: August 14, 2017, 12:15:20 AM by Machinist
»
Logged
New York
Sheridan Silver Streak 1973
177 Disco regulated
177 Maximus $135 to my door!!!
22 Disco ***30 shots 24FPE average with SSG
22 Disco Refurb $150 WOO-HOO
22 Maximus Hunter temporally unmolested
25 Synrod
25 AT44 pump action $200!!!!!!
1322
1377 Flat Top Carbine
Crosman 1400
Red Rider
Artie
Expert
Posts: 1242
yes
Real Name: Richard
Re: Disco SSG
«
Reply #41 on:
August 14, 2017, 09:50:10 AM »
Still waiting for the poppet to arrive Steve. The weather has been iffy here as well. As soon as I've got a gun that will hold pressure I'll pm the results.
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North Carolina
Artie
Expert
Posts: 1242
yes
Real Name: Richard
Re: Disco SSG
«
Reply #42 on:
August 19, 2017, 05:32:19 PM »
I finally got to test Steve's SSG. His work is excellent I must say, much nicer than the Discovery I currently have it mounted in. Firstly, thanks Steve for the generosity to setup me up with the SSG, and secondly, for your patience in guiding me through the setup.
Steve sent the Stopping Spring Guide "drop in" ready but of course I disregarded that nicety as I often do with sound advice. So after a few fills and a little adjustment I produced 35 rounds on a charge of let's say, 1800 down to 0900 psi. I say that because the cheap gauge on the scuba adapter reads "1700" when the cheaper Disco gauge reads "1900". Bottom line, I'm averaging a dice shoot on instrument integrity but the good news is my two Chrony's match.
Steve requested I speak truthfully about the SSG, the good, the bad, the ugly, so to speak. It's not ugly, it looks great! Bad? No way, it's excellent in function and user friendliness, even a knuckle head that doesn't pay attention can adjust it back to where it was before he fooled with it. So I rate it at the top, somewhere between Idiot & Soldier Proof. It doesn't get any better than than that.
I know little about PCP, HPA, and so on. Until recently, SSG to me was the rank between Sgt. and SFC. I'm learning as I go and the SSG has definitley renewed my interest in the Disco. 30-40 usable shots between fills makes the trip from the shooting bench to the garage worthwhile. Yep, not only inattentive, but lazy as well.
I will play with it some more while reading up on Stopping Spring Guides and how to properly deploy them for best efficiency.
Again, thanks Steve, I will post any improvements or mentionable changes.
Logged
North Carolina
Machinist
gun go BOOOOM
Marksman
Posts: 417
yes
Real Name: Steve
Re: Disco SSG
«
Reply #43 on:
August 19, 2017, 11:21:17 PM »
Thanks Ric,
I'm glad it's working for you. I bet if you play around with starting pressure, gap, preload and pellet weight, you can get a few more shots! I hope it lasts, you are a guinea pig my friend.
I spent a bunch of hours looking for the magic setup. Spring rate, preload, gap. A few times it worked really well. Then you can also try a different transfer port. If I try a different transfer port and it improves things, I'll send you one. If you want a different spring, I can send you one of them too.
Thanks again for the help, opinions, and testing.
Steve
PS Yeah the gauges are a half a step above useless
Logged
New York
Sheridan Silver Streak 1973
177 Disco regulated
177 Maximus $135 to my door!!!
22 Disco ***30 shots 24FPE average with SSG
22 Disco Refurb $150 WOO-HOO
22 Maximus Hunter temporally unmolested
25 Synrod
25 AT44 pump action $200!!!!!!
1322
1377 Flat Top Carbine
Crosman 1400
Red Rider
Artie
Expert
Posts: 1242
yes
Real Name: Richard
Re: Disco SSG
«
Reply #44 on:
August 20, 2017, 09:44:51 AM »
What I would really like to get a handle on is learning how to flat line a string and narrow the extreme spread. Does pellet selection greatly influence this?
I suppose the thing to do is fill at a 100 psi increase each string until I reach valve lock so I at least have one reliable reference point, probably using the scba adapter gauge. Then work back from there until max fill with current valve setup is attained? After that, rely upon the chrony to monitor the curve and adjust the SSG from there?
Also, I am only using the CP's to test with, having a good supply and not overly concerned with accuracy yet. Should I move on to another pellet or stick with CP's until I understand what I'm doing?
Being a newbie at this, I'm somewhat clueless, is there a baseline guide for dialing in an SSG in the forum somewhere? I've done some research here and am frankly somewhat intimidated, not quite understanding how to go about it. Perhaps I was not the best choice for guinea pig?
Logged
North Carolina
Machinist
gun go BOOOOM
Marksman
Posts: 417
yes
Real Name: Steve
Re: Disco SSG
«
Reply #45 on:
August 20, 2017, 10:41:02 AM »
I think you're doing great Ric!
Everything you say makes sense. You're going about it all in a logical way and you are a million miles from clueless.
Personally, what I think you should do is ENJOY THE GUN! Don't put a lot of pressure on yourself to get 40, 50, or 60 shots per fill. You learned a lot in just a few days right? Absolutely try different things and see what happens.
I think in general the heavier pellets had a tighter ES, but I could be wrong. I shot a string a week or so ago that had a 15 or 16FPS spread, but it was only 25 or so shots. I had to give up shots to tighten the ES, so it was a compromise. I don't remember the pellet weight. I guess the key is to find a setup that's right for you.
I made a fluted striker last night. I figured it should make hits on the valve more consistent, and tighten up the ES. I also wanted it to be heavier to make more power. The Crosman striker weighs 54 grams. After 2+ hours of work, my striker was done. I weighed it and was very disappointed.....56 grams. Two hours down the drain.
I also figured a stronger spring and a bigger SSG gap would tighten up the ES. Then I broke off the bolt handle. I just laughed when I typed that, but it wasn't funny at the time.
I've read that a slightly smaller transfer port can tighten up the ES, but I haven't tried one, so I don't know. How much smaller should it be? I don't know that either. How much would a smaller transfer port improve the ES? Nope, don't know that either. At what point does ES make a noted impact on accuracy?
Years ago I made a piston for a multi pump. I wrapped it in low friction material. Doing something like that to the striker might make hits on the valve more consistent, but I've been wrong before.
I think the best, most reliable, pertinent research you will find, is the research YOU do.
You're the bestest guinea pig!
Steve
PS shoot and have fun!!!
«
Last Edit: August 20, 2017, 10:57:59 AM by Machinist
»
Logged
New York
Sheridan Silver Streak 1973
177 Disco regulated
177 Maximus $135 to my door!!!
22 Disco ***30 shots 24FPE average with SSG
22 Disco Refurb $150 WOO-HOO
22 Maximus Hunter temporally unmolested
25 Synrod
25 AT44 pump action $200!!!!!!
1322
1377 Flat Top Carbine
Crosman 1400
Red Rider
Machinist
gun go BOOOOM
Marksman
Posts: 417
yes
Real Name: Steve
Re: Disco SSG
«
Reply #46 on:
August 20, 2017, 11:51:01 AM »
I just laughed again...
You have 3 different springs you could try.
There are 3 spacers, each a different length to roughly adjust preload.
The preload can also be fine tuned by moving the locknuts.
Then there is the infinitely adjustable SSG gap.
The fill pressure can be varied.
At least a dozen different pellets to try.
How many possible combinations does that make? It all needs to be tested and documented by Tuesday OK.
Steve
Logged
New York
Sheridan Silver Streak 1973
177 Disco regulated
177 Maximus $135 to my door!!!
22 Disco ***30 shots 24FPE average with SSG
22 Disco Refurb $150 WOO-HOO
22 Maximus Hunter temporally unmolested
25 Synrod
25 AT44 pump action $200!!!!!!
1322
1377 Flat Top Carbine
Crosman 1400
Red Rider
Artie
Expert
Posts: 1242
yes
Real Name: Richard
Re: Disco SSG
«
Reply #47 on:
August 20, 2017, 12:25:45 PM »
I can do that. I'll also order some more pellets today to broaden my horizons. Speaking of that, the center of tomorrow's eclipse path is only 80 miles away. Maybe I should set up there and see how it affects the es.
Logged
North Carolina
Machinist
gun go BOOOOM
Marksman
Posts: 417
yes
Real Name: Steve
Re: Disco SSG
«
Reply #48 on:
August 20, 2017, 12:45:38 PM »
I thought you were gonna say you're sending it back.
That's a good idea, keep track of celestial happenings and how they affect the gun. Is that why mine shoots good once in a blue moon?
FYI... I was getting better shot strings when I stood on one foot after eating ice cream.
Steve
Logged
New York
Sheridan Silver Streak 1973
177 Disco regulated
177 Maximus $135 to my door!!!
22 Disco ***30 shots 24FPE average with SSG
22 Disco Refurb $150 WOO-HOO
22 Maximus Hunter temporally unmolested
25 Synrod
25 AT44 pump action $200!!!!!!
1322
1377 Flat Top Carbine
Crosman 1400
Red Rider
Artie
Expert
Posts: 1242
yes
Real Name: Richard
Re: Disco SSG
«
Reply #49 on:
August 20, 2017, 01:27:46 PM »
I can count on a blue moon too if the one legged Disco Shaman is in town and Rocky Road is on sale.
Logged
North Carolina
Machinist
gun go BOOOOM
Marksman
Posts: 417
yes
Real Name: Steve
Re: Disco SSG
«
Reply #50 on:
August 20, 2017, 10:13:07 PM »
OK, back to being serious...
Ric, you have a 30 or 35 shot string. We don't know the speed of 5 shots. You have an extreme spread of 59 FPS which is 7.29%. I can see why you would like to reduce the ES.
When I tested your SSG in my gun, I had 30 shots in the power range you want, with an ES of 31FPS which is 3.99%
Your most powerful shot was 809 FSP. Mine was 777 FPS. We both shot 14.3 grain pellets.
I think you might need to increase the SSG gap a little. That could get you where you want to be. 1/8 of a turn might do it.
==================================
I played with my 177 Disco earlier today. It's regulated. I filled to only 1650 psi and got 72 shots from 9.18 FPE to 11.34 FPE. Shooting 7.4 grain Milk Container Crosmans, the high was 828 FPS, and the low was 732 FPS. The ES was not too bad until I came off the regulator. Regardless, 72 shots is a lot from a 1650 fill. Best result I've had with an SSG in the regulated 177.
Without the SSG, I was getting 45 shots from a 2000 PSI fill at the same power level.
Steve
«
Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 08:34:42 AM by Machinist
»
Logged
New York
Sheridan Silver Streak 1973
177 Disco regulated
177 Maximus $135 to my door!!!
22 Disco ***30 shots 24FPE average with SSG
22 Disco Refurb $150 WOO-HOO
22 Maximus Hunter temporally unmolested
25 Synrod
25 AT44 pump action $200!!!!!!
1322
1377 Flat Top Carbine
Crosman 1400
Red Rider
Artie
Expert
Posts: 1242
yes
Real Name: Richard
Re: Disco SSG
«
Reply #51 on:
August 21, 2017, 08:54:05 AM »
I'll give it a try backing off the current setup 1/8 in adjustment Steve. I'm glad you mentioned having a regulated Disco, I'm considering a regulator when I've learned more about the SSG. What regulator are you using and do you like it?
PS, forgot to mention, as you discussed in an earlier pm, my bottom mounting screw was @ 3/32" too long. I corrected that with a washer as suggested when installing the SSG.
«
Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 09:10:57 AM by Artie
»
Logged
North Carolina
Artie
Expert
Posts: 1242
yes
Real Name: Richard
Re: Disco SSG
«
Reply #52 on:
August 21, 2017, 12:15:16 PM »
I backed off 1/4 turn and shot a string of 52 (CP's). I used the scuba adapter gauge for fill reference (1800 psi) and the gun gauge for the stop point. I attached a photo of that gauge because I don't know what the Disco gauge equates to in actual pressure at my stopping point.
I divided extreme spread (fps) by highest fps shot to determine a percentage of .139 (111/796). The fastest pellet shot was # 34 incidentally.
High = 796; Low = 685
I shot 10 round strings (Chrony Master) until the last string when speed dropped off. It is safe to speculate errors, though not recorded, had a representative speed consistent within a given group of ten shots. I fired alibi's to makeup for errors to complete a 10 count string. Here's the string (s):
685 755 792 793 716
692 751 787 787 706
701 755 790 788 687
713 757 779 788
727 762 788 786
734 762 785 786
742 770 795 782
727 778 795 753
743 786 796 751
+ 4 Err + 1 Err + 4 Err
«
Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 12:26:18 PM by Artie
»
Logged
North Carolina
Machinist
gun go BOOOOM
Marksman
Posts: 417
yes
Real Name: Steve
Re: Disco SSG
«
Reply #53 on:
August 21, 2017, 01:41:08 PM »
That's awesome Ric. 52 shots is redicules. If you dropped the fill presure 150 Psi, you would eliminate the first 8 or 9 slow shots and an air tank would last forever.
Your fastest shot 796 is still hotter than my 777. I wonder what would happen if you increased the SSG gap slightly?
Steve
«
Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 01:43:21 PM by Machinist
»
Logged
New York
Sheridan Silver Streak 1973
177 Disco regulated
177 Maximus $135 to my door!!!
22 Disco ***30 shots 24FPE average with SSG
22 Disco Refurb $150 WOO-HOO
22 Maximus Hunter temporally unmolested
25 Synrod
25 AT44 pump action $200!!!!!!
1322
1377 Flat Top Carbine
Crosman 1400
Red Rider
Artie
Expert
Posts: 1242
yes
Real Name: Richard
Re: Disco SSG
«
Reply #54 on:
August 21, 2017, 02:07:16 PM »
I'll give it a try tomorrow Steve. I had a previous post asking about your regulator. Do you like it? Worth the money? What Brand if you don't mind me asking?
Logged
North Carolina
Machinist
gun go BOOOOM
Marksman
Posts: 417
yes
Real Name: Steve
Re: Disco SSG
«
Reply #55 on:
August 21, 2017, 07:39:00 PM »
Hey Ric,
I bought my 177 Disco used, it came with the regulator installed. It's a Lane regulator set for 100 bar. I haven't touched it.
I don't know if I would go out and buy one for a Disco. The gun only holds 130 cc at 2000.PSI. The regulator also takes up space in the tube, so now you have less than 130cc. The reg I have goes where the gauge is normally located, so my gun has no gauge.
If I had a gun that filled to 3000 psi and had a larger tube it would make more sense. I fill to 2000 and the reg is set for 1470. Not that much volume or pressure to play with in a Disco.
If I had more time, I'd try changing the set point, installing a smaller transfer port and a lighter striker. But all I do is shoot it.
The extreme spread isn't bad, but I thought it would be better. It might not be the regulator, maybe my valve hit is inconsistent, I don't know. 45 shots 833 high and 808 low. I haven't shot it through the chronograph much either.
I don't know how good the gun could be with the reg or without it, so I really can't have a strong opinion.
I don't know how much a regulator would tighten up your groups. Maybe someone else could give you better info.
*** EDIT 8-21-17 I just remembered and looked a few posts back also, I had an ES of 96FPS with the regulated 177 with the SSG, but I made no effort to improve the string as of yet. Just put some parts together and shot. Didn't adjust anything. I don't know for sure exactly when I came off the reg, or what the ES was while on the reg.
Steve
PS nice big gauge on your tank
«
Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 08:21:44 PM by Machinist
»
Logged
New York
Sheridan Silver Streak 1973
177 Disco regulated
177 Maximus $135 to my door!!!
22 Disco ***30 shots 24FPE average with SSG
22 Disco Refurb $150 WOO-HOO
22 Maximus Hunter temporally unmolested
25 Synrod
25 AT44 pump action $200!!!!!!
1322
1377 Flat Top Carbine
Crosman 1400
Red Rider
Artie
Expert
Posts: 1242
yes
Real Name: Richard
Re: Disco SSG
«
Reply #56 on:
August 21, 2017, 07:54:34 PM »
Ah, the Harbor Freight glycerin gauge. They may not be available any longer, got it a few years ago.
I was curious how much volume is lost, depending on which reg, Lane or Huma. Figuring the Disco's age, condition, and that it's an entry level gun, cost vs benefit is something to consider. The efficiency gain and shot group improvement would have to surpass what is lost in air volume capacity. Maybe if it was a competition gun..
«
Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 07:56:12 PM by Artie
»
Logged
North Carolina
Artie
Expert
Posts: 1242
yes
Real Name: Richard
Re: Disco SSG
«
Reply #57 on:
August 26, 2017, 11:45:16 AM »
Sorry for the delay on testing but other projects side tracked me. Anywho, following Steve's lead I backed off the SSG a tad, before the adjustment the index was at 1300 hours, now it's at 1230 hours and the fill 150 psi less (1650 psi). Stopped at 0900 psi.
Results: 43 shots, no errors, Min: 709 (#1), Max: 799 (#22), es=90 fps (.113 %)
709 768 778 785 734
728 766 799 786 723
733 759 796 780 715
739 757 794 781
732 763. 789 779
731 773 791 772
740 776 792 764
756 769 795 760
759 780 792 750
752 780 786 742
Logged
North Carolina
Machinist
gun go BOOOOM
Marksman
Posts: 417
yes
Real Name: Steve
Re: Disco SSG
«
Reply #58 on:
August 26, 2017, 01:55:10 PM »
Hope it's a little cooler for you today Ric.
I looked back and saw that filling to only 1500 PSI eliminated most of the first slow shots with my gun. So... you can leave the gun alone for a while, and just shoot it, or you could try changing the preload on the spring. That could be done by swapping the 3/8 diameter spacers, and/or moving the 2 locknuts. Playing with the SSG gap is one adjustment, changing the force exerted by the spring is another. Might just like to leave it alone 'till I send you more parts. If the new striker and smaller transfer ports work out, I'll send them to you. Try to tighten up the ES as much as possible.
I'm going to have my SCUBA tank filled today and try some new parts out. Shooting hundreds of shots into the rubber mulch isn't the most fun I ever had, but when you get the adjustments just right, double your shot count, and get the FPE you're looking for, it's pretty rewarding.
Thanks for the testing, info, opinions etc. Ric.
Do you have a scope on the gun? I wonder if the length of the SSG will bother you after a while? Do you put your thumb under the SSG when shooting? I wonder how the accuracy is with the large ES? Still happy with the cocking effort?
Thanks Again
Steve
PS really nice that there were no chronograph errors!
«
Last Edit: August 26, 2017, 01:59:39 PM by Machinist
»
Logged
New York
Sheridan Silver Streak 1973
177 Disco regulated
177 Maximus $135 to my door!!!
22 Disco ***30 shots 24FPE average with SSG
22 Disco Refurb $150 WOO-HOO
22 Maximus Hunter temporally unmolested
25 Synrod
25 AT44 pump action $200!!!!!!
1322
1377 Flat Top Carbine
Crosman 1400
Red Rider
Artie
Expert
Posts: 1242
yes
Real Name: Richard
Re: Disco SSG
«
Reply #59 on:
August 26, 2017, 02:31:48 PM »
The cocking effort doesn't really bother me and normally I would be spacing my shot interval much further apart anyway so any additional resistance is no biggie.
I do use the trigger finger & thumb-over, "pinch" technique but then again, the SSG doesn't really affect me. I can still get my thumb under it or offset to the right which is becoming my preferred method.
As far as the external SSG vs internal, or Steve in NC's FFH, I am happy with yours. It looks like it belongs on the gun and the simplicity of adjustability approaches design elegance. I may however, get a FFH for my QB78 at some point.
No, spitting lead into the swamp for shot count isn't much fun but the research is rewarding isn't it?
I feel your product is market worthy if only for the clean appearance and simple adjustability. Think about it, I've more than doubled the shot count, usable shots more than twice too I believe. In the hands of someone who knew their way around an SSG I believe it could really shine. I'm still waiting on some JSB's but will try some Superdome's next go around.
I can slap the scope back on it, it's ready to go, and give her a spin on targeting. That will no doubt take a little time, getting it back to pre-reseal accuracy. You know how frustrating that can be on a Disco. Hopefully my initial permanent tweaks/barrel adjustments will shave some time on that..
I have an LDC that I made and have been testing with it installed. Placing it's working end @ 6" from the Chrony seems to eliminate the "ERR 1".
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North Carolina
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Disco SSG