Powder coated slugs?

[Greg_E]

A few fps increase is all you can expect, not going to be a night and day difference. One person I know tried this compared to uncoated and coated, I think he got ~5fps though a 20 shot check of each in 25cal. I was having problems with my FX chrono so didn't do any of that testing the last time I was at the club to shoot. You could expect around the same increase from lubing all your lead ammo.

What you won't get from lubed lead is the lack of lead build up in the barrel that PC will give you. It also won't keep your hands clean while you load like PC will. And if you had undersized ammo (like .356) lube will not increase the size to better seal in the barrel like PC will. This last point was the thing that drove me to try PC, I had a bunch of .356 ammo and it didn't group, put some PC on it and sized to 357-358 which is where the gun is designed and it shoots better. I probably wouldn't try to make a bigger jump than 0.001 or 0.0015 undersize, not sure that the PC will hold the rifling if no lead is impressed into the grooves (something to test eventually?).

The last thing that might be an advantage is lead hardness. Some people have decided that they can use much harder lead in airguns as long as they PC and size. I have not tried this yet but is something I need to look into because it would open the door to recycle lead from the range. I need to check with my club to see if I can harvest some rounds from the berms and give this a try.

Now before someone comes in and says they are afraid because the PC might get stuck in the barrel... Remove the o rings from the barrel and run some acetone patches through to clean it, it will dissolve. And that's only IF this becomes a problem. This is one reason people use this coating in powder burners, you can run much faster speeds without leading the barrel. Since the slugs in an airgun as travelling at (generally) much lower speeds, shedding the PC should not be a problem. You can buy commercially produced PC ammo for powder burners, that should tell you something. If at all concerned, then buy the expensive coating made for firearms http://hi-performancebulletcoatings.com/hi-tek-supercoat-powder-3-5-oz-container/ I'm guessing that if you look really hard, you'll find that this stuff is the same as most of the premium powder coating materials, but if it helps you sleep better at night, go for it. PC lasts a LONG time in the shake n' bake container so $15 will probably do more than 1000 larger rounds (I don't have a good number yet as I am still getting started on casting my own stuff).

The last side effect is that the lead will be "encased" in a polymer after it gets planted in a berm. In theory this will help keep lead out of the environment. Since it is the most shaky of PC attributes, it may not be a real consideration.

Re-melting range scrap is another topic, and I don't have direct experience with this (yet). What I've read is that you should melt scrap outside because the PC will stink when it melts. Flux the liquid and skim off the dross same as normal, pour into ingots and move inside to cast new ammo. Go to the range and plant the seeds, maybe harvest them while you are there. Repeat.

[Smoke4320]

Greg_g is correct in most everything he has posted
I have been selling hi quality PC of nearly 7 years now and have customers worldwide.
The powder I sell is much much higher quality than Harbor freight, Also a different formula and lastly is the finest grain PC powder manufactured (that we know of)
1 LB of my powder will coat between 6000 and 8000 230 Grain 45 cal bullets so extrapolate from that on a 25 cal 23 to 30 grain probably 25,000 or more projectiles   

[Greg_E]

Jim,

What parts did I miss? Want to make sure that I am correct going forward and looking to learn what I can in this process.

So far my Eastwood has been really easy to work with in shake n' bake. Best thing I did was to put a silicone backing sheet (non-stick sheet) in the pan that came with my toaster oven. This lets the bases "cook" properly and not an issue pulling them off when they cool. Need to get another small batch prepared and do a video, people keep asking me how to do this and I keep telling them to go watch this video or that video... Need to just tell them to watch one that I make. Hoping to do this sometime this week.

[Smoke4320]

The pc is much harder than the lead so going as much as 004 larger is not an issue. When I get to the shop tomorrow I can look up the exact hardness but iirc it's like 35 Rockwell harness
The pc acts just like a copper jacket and this allows powder burners to vastly exceed what the are capable with with greased bullets and with softer lead to boot.
As far as velocity increase in airguns what I did see in testing big bore airguns was about 1/2 % fps increase ( this was very limited testing need to do much more). In powder burners fps increase is approximately 4 to 5%. Since airgun rifling is much thinner than powder burners the slickness of the pc is not providing as much fps gain. It will eliminate all leading and slugs will be the same condition 10 years from now as when coated.

[EdinGa]

The pc is much harder than the lead so going as much as 004 larger is not an issue. When I get to the shop tomorrow I can look up the exact hardness but iirc it's like 35 Rockwell harness
The pc acts just like a copper jacket and this allows powder burners to vastly exceed what the are capable with with greased bullets and with softer lead to boot.
As far as velocity increase in airguns what I did see in testing big bore airguns was about 1/2 % fps increase ( this was very limited testing need to do much more). In powder burners fps increase is approximately 4 to 5%. Since airgun rifling is much thinner than powder burners the slickness of the pc is not providing as much fps gain. It will eliminate all leading and slugs will be the same condition 10 years from now as when coated.

I can report that I've push PC bullets over 2000 fps and with no issues. It sticks like glue. I have also dumped PC'd bullets back into the casting pot and the powder coat skin pops off and floats on top. Most of the time it keeps the form of the bullet. It's tough stuff.

I've been powder coating my .25 wadcutters then sizing them. They are shooting great in my Diana Bandit. I haven't chronographed them, but I do think my groups have tightened up a little.

[Back_Roads]

 I have polished out the .173 NOE sizer to .178 Just a FYI

[Smoke4320]

Cool.... looking forward to your results
Please keep us updated

[bduares]

A few fps increase is all you can expect, not going to be a night and day difference. One person I know tried this compared to uncoated and coated, I think he got ~5fps though a 20 shot check of each in 25cal. I was having problems with my FX chrono so didn't do any of that testing the last time I was at the club to shoot. You could expect around the same increase from lubing all your lead ammo.

Chrony results of PC vs non-PC slugs of same type in .357 here:

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=186941.msg156147451#msg156147451

[rkr]

A few fps increase is all you can expect, not going to be a night and day difference. One person I know tried this compared to uncoated and coated, I think he got ~5fps though a 20 shot check of each in 25cal. I was having problems with my FX chrono so didn't do any of that testing the last time I was at the club to shoot. You could expect around the same increase from lubing all your lead ammo.

Chrony results of PC vs non-PC slugs of same type in .357 here:

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=186941.msg156147451#msg156147451

Interesting, did you PC those bullets after swaging or before, i.e. were the PC bullets the same size as non-PC bullets?

[bduares]

The slugs were powder coated after swaging. Half were left uncoated and used straight from the .357 swage press, the other half were powder coated, lubed and sized through a .357 LEE die. The PC added approx 1 grain of weight.

I plan on doing some shooting tests tomorrow on my day off since I have new scope rings to sight in, and for that I just tested some of the coated slugs to see if they would survive a run through my swage press without removing the powder coating. They went through the press just fine. I haven't weighed them but I will tomorrow when I get ready to do some shooting.  That way I can shoot slugs powder coated after swaging against slugs which have been swaged, powder coated, then swaged again.

The reason I ran some through the swage press tonight was because I have about a hundred slugs I double coated this morning with a different color PC (HF white) and they came out with an extra thick coating which was not fitting well into my magazine. So I popped 8 of them through the swage press again and they came out fine and now fit the magazine properly.  After swaging the PC slugs they also feel almost like glass now.

I'm sure there are a lot of variations I can do for testing but my main goal is to see what I can do for accuracy, so tomorrow I plan on target shooting plain swaged lead slugs against swaged then PC slugs and reswaged PC slugs to see if there is any difference, at least as far as with my own rifle and choice of projectile. If one of the 3 different processes works better than the others then that is what I will stick with.

[rkr]

The slugs were powder coated after swaging. Half were left uncoated and used straight from the .357 swage press, the other half were powder coated, lubed and sized through a .357 LEE die. The PC added approx 1 grain of weight.

I plan on doing some shooting tests tomorrow on my day off since I have new scope rings to sight in, and for that I just tested some of the coated slugs to see if they would survive a run through my swage press without removing the powder coating. They went through the press just fine. I haven't weighed them but I will tomorrow when I get ready to do some shooting.  That way I can shoot slugs powder coated after swaging against slugs which have been swaged, powder coated, then swaged again.

The reason I ran some through the swage press tonight was because I have about a hundred slugs I double coated this morning with a different color PC (HF white) and they came out with an extra thick coating which was not fitting well into my magazine. So I popped 8 of them through the swage press again and they came out fine and now fit the magazine properly.  After swaging the PC slugs they also feel almost like glass now.

I'm sure there are a lot of variations I can do for testing but my main goal is to see what I can do for accuracy, so tomorrow I plan on target shooting plain swaged lead slugs against swaged then PC slugs and reswaged PC slugs to see if there is any difference, at least as far as with my own rifle and choice of projectile. If one of the 3 different processes works better than the others then that is what I will stick with.

That 0.001-0.0015 extra diameter caused by powder coating easily reduces velocity some 10-30 fps depending on your barrel. I once saw a drop of 50 fps when the barrel on my .357 was badly leaded. My guess is that you'll gain velocity with reswaged PC slugs. What does your barrel slug at and what's the diameter of those bullets?

[Smoke4320]

I just got a report back from member here kenneth Bolton on some MP 252-46 HP slugs I cast and sized for him to test in a FX Maverick
all slugs were pure lead with 2% tin. they weighted 44 grains with the HP .sent approx 55 uncoated sized 250 and 55 coated sized 250 AFTER coating
Kenneth reports that the uncoated slugs shot at 930 FPS and the Coated Slugs at 940 FPS with no changes to the setting or regs.
so his testing shows a 10 FPS gain in 25 cal.
I will be sending him more slugs to test to confirm his results.
On my 30 cal FX Maverick with 600 MM barrel I took some NSA 47.2 Gr slugs and coated then resized to .300
Uncoated slugs shot at 950 avg and coated at 970 Avg. so a gain of 20 FPS and getting dime sized 13 shot (full mag) groups at 50 yds with loose hold. just got a new locking front rest so I expect next groups to be even tighter

[EdinGa]

I've been powder coating the .25 wadcutter pellets I'm casting too. I need to do some testing with them and see if it makes a difference.

[Greg_E]

Should spray some silicone lube on the bare lead pellets, I'm guessing the speeds will come up a little. But I also believe (still needs to be tested by me) that the slippery PC will help going down the barrel and probably easier to crush into rifling. I'm needing to cast a few new things to try and will make sure to leave a couple mags worth uncoated. But I also need to work out why my FX radar doesn't read all the time on this gun.

[Firewalker]

Should spray some silicone lube on the bare lead pellets, I'm guessing the speeds will come up a little. But I also believe (still needs to be tested by me) that the slippery PC will help going down the barrel and probably easier to crush into rifling. I'm needing to cast a few new things to try and will make sure to leave a couple mags worth uncoated. But I also need to work out why my FX radar doesn't read all the time on this gun.

You will find that the barrel fouls much like wax lube does and even increases lead fouling. Try it and see what you get but it was a bust for me. Dry lead shoots better in my opinion.

[Greg_E]

Hmmmm... I'm pretty sure the Benjamin Nosler have a lube on them from factory. Maybe I'll skip the raw lead and just PC everything I cast.

[Firewalker]

Yes, some "lubes" dont actually lubricate, black powder is an example, they really dont lubricate as much as they keep the powder fouling soft.

[Jeremy1982]

Not sure what I have going on but I hi Tek coated a bunch of my slugs for the 357 texan and it does not like it....groups are all over the place...I can throw the same un coated slugs in and pull it to a 1inch group?Can't figure it out as to why...only airgun doing this??

[Greg_E]

Not sure what I have going on but I hi Tek coated a bunch of my slugs for the 357 texan and it does not like it....groups are all over the place...I can throw the same un coated slugs in and pull it to a 1inch group?Can't figure it out as to why...only airgun doing this??

Are you sizing them after coating?

[Jeremy1982]

Yes sir.for some reason if I shoot a 5 shot string the 1st one is a some what flyer and high...next 3 are 3 inch group and the 5th is a flyer.been scratching my head!I take the same round w/out coating and put all 5 in a inch and a half.cant figure it out