GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => European/Asian Air Gun Gates => UK Airgun Gate => Topic started by: Nitrocrushr on February 15, 2019, 04:59:52 PM
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GTA Member DanT provided me with an opportunity to tune and refinish his TX200 MK3 .22 caliber, installing a Tony Leach 22mm conversion kit in the process.
This was an interesting project in that I got a chance to see just how easily the .22 caliber springers make power as compared to the .177 caliber. They have a soft feeling shot and require much less preload to get the same or greater energy levels. In the end, this rifle needed only 10.5mm of total preload to make just over 12 fpe of energy.
(http://u.cubeupload.com/Nitrocrushr/TotalPreload.jpg)
Let's look at that in comparison to my 22mm tuned TX200 .177 caliber;
TX200 MK3 Rifle .177 caliber
Tony Leach 22mm conversion
TX355 spring - minus 1.5 coils
210mm total spring length
No spacers
16mm total preload
JSB 7.87gr - 11.44 fpe
TX200 MK3 Rifle .22 caliber
Tony Leach 22mm conversion
TX355 spring - minus 2.5 coils
204.5mm total spring length
No spacers
10.5mm total preload
JSB 14.35gr - 12.19 fpe
Rather impressive. On the bench the rifle is exceptionally smooth with less jump than a 12 fpe tune using the factory 25mm piston.
Here are some comparisons between this rifle and a few other set-ups;
This is the recoil sled that I used for my testing - Fully floating in both directions, hands free firing. Allows both recoil and surge to be measured.
(http://u.cubeupload.com/Nitrocrushr/RecoilSled.jpg)
Recoil Sled Results
(http://u.cubeupload.com/Nitrocrushr/Chart.jpg)
43.2% reduction in overall movement over the factory FAC set-up
27.6% reduction in movement over a factory piston JM 12 fpe tuned set-up
While my .177 TL22mm tuned rifle is showing less movement overall, there are a few things to take into account here;
1) My .177 is making 6.2% less energy
2) The .177 is launching a pellet that is 45% lighter than the .22 caliber
3) My .177 is broken in and has settled. This .22 caliber is still a rather fresh tune and will settle in over the next several hundred shots. I would anticipate that both energy and overall movement will tame down a bit.
Another note - Although the movement may be slightly greater than my .177, the .22 calibers have a soft feel to them on the shot. While this sled only picks up movement, if it were to pick up the speed, or rate of acceleration of this movement, you might see a difference here between the two. Just a speculation that's all.
Here are some pictures of the completed rifle;
(http://u.cubeupload.com/Nitrocrushr/IMG1376.jpg)
(http://u.cubeupload.com/Nitrocrushr/IMG1369.jpg)
(http://u.cubeupload.com/Nitrocrushr/IMG1370.jpg)
(http://u.cubeupload.com/Nitrocrushr/IMG1379.jpg)
Your rifle is on the way Dan, thanks for the oppotunity to take on this project and I hope you enjoy it ;)
Steve
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Great job as always Nitrocrushr.
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Great job as always Nitrocrushr.
Thanks😁
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Thanks for the report Steve! That's interesting to read the difference between the surge in the .177 and .22, vs. the actual felt recoil.
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Thanks Steve! From your tests it sounds like "voodoo" magic how it shoots a heavier pellet with more energy and close to the same feel as a .177. Really looking forward to getting this one back so I can compare to my 22mm TX HC in .177. Maybe we can call this the TX200 .22 Voodoo mod ;)
Regards,
Dan
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Thanks for the report Steve! That's interesting to read the difference between the surge in the .177 and .22, vs. the actual felt recoil.
Zack, While it is certainly subjective, I believe that the recoil on .22 vs .177 is softer. After Dan's rifle settles in I think the recoil and surge movement will decrease, and the shot will be even softer. My .177's recoil sled movement dropped nearly a full millimeter as things settled in, yet fpe remained the same.
Tony has a .22 caliber right now that is tuned well into the lower 11 fpe range. I think he is running around 8mm of total preload with no issues. He said it is amazingly smooth to shoot. That said, I believe that a .22 caliber with a 22mm conversion, tuned to an identical energy level as a .177 will have less movement on the sled than the .177 ;)
Steve
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Thanks Steve! From your tests it sounds like "voodoo" magic how it shoots a heavier pellet with more energy and close to the same feel as a .177. Really looking forward to getting this one back so I can compare to my 22mm TX HC in .177. Maybe we can call this the TX200 .22 Voodoo mod ;)
Regards,
Dan
You're welcome Dan ;) I'll be anxious to hear your thoughts after you get it. Put a few hundred shots through it and see where it settles in. I believe it will drop into the upper 11 fpe range as it sits right now and will smooth out even more 8) When cutting the springs down, it changes the spring rate. The true effects of each move when shortening the spring take some time to settle in. Give her a few hundred shots and we'll see where it's at then.
Steve
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I run my .22 rifle around 11.7fpe with 15.9s and it runs around 11.3 to 11.4 with 13.4s, i need to get some 14.3s (all JSB's) to test also as they can be seriously efficient.
I can set 6 to 7mag on the scope, shoot 10m and the ret hardly moves off the pellet strike point, you in theory could shoot 10m with the gun running near double the power of a 70's 10M match springer.
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Got the Voodoo TX today! Wow, it is super sweet. I ran it over the chrony and after the shot it certainly didnt feel like it hit 600 fps with H and N 14.6's = 11.7ft/lbs. As Tony mentioned you can watch the pellet hole appear in the cross hairs with very little movement.
(https://i.imgur.com/560Cw7v.jpg)
Great job on the stock, trigger and kit Steve! Stock is super smooth and clean with a slightly matte RLO finish . Trigger tuned and polished to a crisp 14oz.
If anyone is looking for someone to work on their TX I highly recommend Nitrocrusher.
And if your on the fence regarding the 22mm kit don't be. Excellent in .177 and even better in .22 ;D
I will keep breaking it in and let the group know how its performing over time.
Thanks again.
Regards,
DanT
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Got the Voodoo TX today! Wow, it is super sweet. I ran it over the chrony and after the shot it certainly didnt feel like it hit 600 fps with H and N 14.6's = 11.7ft/lbs. As Tony mentioned you can watch the pellet hole appear in the cross hairs with very little movement.
Great job on the stock, trigger and kit Steve!
If anyone is looking for someone to work on their TX I highly recommend Nitrocrusher.
If your on the fence for a 22mm kit don't be. Excellent in .177 and even better in .22 ;D
I will keep breaking it in and let the group know how its performing over time.
Thanks again.
Regards,
DanT
Glad to hear your rifle arrived safely Dan ;D Keep us posted as you break things in. All that from a mere 10.5mm of total preload!
This project has prompted me to get a .22. Got a .22 TX200 rifle in walnut on the way ;) I want to document performance from 13 fpe down to 11.4 range, and set it where it indicates the least movement on the sled, and then compare on target with my .177.
Steve
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Nice! Looking forward to seeing how yours turns out.
Talk soon.
Regards,
Dan
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Got the Voodoo TX today! Wow, it is super sweet. I ran it over the chrony and after the shot it certainly didnt feel like it hit 600 fps with H and N 14.6's = 11.7ft/lbs. As Tony mentioned you can watch the pellet hole appear in the cross hairs with very little movement.
(https://i.imgur.com/560Cw7v.jpg)
Great job on the stock, trigger and kit Steve! Stock is super smooth and clean with a slightly matte RLO finish . Trigger tuned and polished to a crisp 14oz.
If anyone is looking for someone to work on their TX I highly recommend Nitrocrusher.
And if your on the fence regarding the 22mm kit don't be. Excellent in .177 and even better in .22 ;D
I will keep breaking it in and let the group know how its performing over time.
Thanks again.
Regards,
DanT
Congrats Dan! I imagine a rifle tuned by Steve is a work of art and a dream to shoot! I'm jealous.
Enjoy your new rig!!!
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I just ordered a TX specifically because of your posts on this. Wanted a walnut stock, but PA had a refurb beech on sale for a great price, so I ordered it. I can’t wait to try it. Is there a downside to this mod? I can’t see any. I don’t understand why AA doesn’t do something similar out of the box.
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I don't see any downside to this mod, it's a total upgrade IMO. I've been shooting mine for several months and the only problem I've seen so far is that I don't want to shoot my other rifles ;D
The lock time is extremely fast, like a well behaved gas ram (I emphasize well behaved) - the overall smoothness and almost lack of recoil makes for easy follow through. I can actually watch the pellet hit paper.
I think the TX200 MkIII (and HC) were designed with the American market in mind where power isn't limited so the extra stroke is needed for the magnum hounds out there. This kit is definitely not for power but the smoooooooothness makes it very appealing 8)
Good luck with yours and if you decide to go with a 22mm you WILL NOT be disappointed.
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I just ordered a TX specifically because of your posts on this. Wanted a walnut stock, but PA had a refurb beech on sale for a great price, so I ordered it. I can’t wait to try it. Is there a downside to this mod? I can’t see any. I don’t understand why AA doesn’t do something similar out of the box.
Nothing wrong with the Beech. The .177 I have now is beech, it's a little heavier and more durable than the walnut. I have not seen a downside to this kit. Setting them up can take some time until you get the spring length correct for your rifle, and for the fpe that you are looking to achieve. As Niko mentioned, they are not designed for folks looking for lots of power. They are designed with smooth precision in mind ;)
Steve
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Sorry I failed to mention that the above target is a 5 shot group where all 5 shots went through the same hole (22yds for this particular string). The rifle was not rested, I was sitting on a bucket and shot it hunter field target style off a bipod. This particular HC keeps doing this so groups like that are not out of the ordinary. The 22mm conversion made this little HC out of this world and it makes a standard factory Air Arms TX feel like it has a busted spring with blown seals and no lube. This thing practically shoots groups like that by itself with very little effort. Makes most of my other rifles feel hold sensitive ;D
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Sorry I failed to mention that the above target is a 5 shot group where all 5 shots went through the same hole (22yds for this particular string). The rifle was not rested, I was sitting on a bucket and shot it hunter field target style off a bipod. This particular HC keeps doing this so groups like that are not out of the ordinary. The 22mm conversion made this little HC out of this world and it makes a standard factory Air Arms TX feel like it has a busted spring with blown seals and no lube. This thing practically shoots groups like that by itself with very little effort. Makes most of my other rifles feel hold sensitive ;D
very impressive!