GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Support Equipment For PCP/HPA/CO2 => Topic started by: MustangMike on August 12, 2012, 06:51:59 PM
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Alrighty guys, I made a request to tpatner412 if he could make a video detailing the process for filling airguns from a scba tank with a normal scba valve and not a slow fill valve. It helped me a lot to make my mind up on weither or not I wanted to spend the money for a slow fill valve and the 30 bucks shipping to have it installed or if i just wanted to get a fill assembly for it and go from there.
So it helped me a LOT and I hope it will help others out there considering a tank setup with the same safety concerns about filling from a tank.
A huge thank you goes out to tyler aka tpatner412 for this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_F2rt4v4mR8&feature=em-uploademail#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_F2rt4v4mR8&feature=em-uploademail#ws)
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Thanks for posting this Mike.
If anyone has specific questions about the set up or anything you would like to know about the process for filling guns from a SCBA tank, please do not hesitate to ask!
Tyler
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Thanks for posting this Mike.
If anyone has specific questions about the set up or anything you would like to know about the process for filling guns from a SCBA tank, please do not hesitate to ask!
Tyler
your welcome buddy and again thank you for making that. you did save me the roughly 70 bucks difference with shipping my tank to have the slow fill valve installed.
and ya guys tyler has been a huge help with answering my questions since i got my tank. just know with hpa it is far better to ask rather then not to ask and have a accident because odds are a hpa accident isnt going to be walked away from. maybe rolled away on a stretcher or limped away from at best..
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Noob checking in. First time I've been in this section of the forum, so I'd like to ask:
I've spotted a deal for a paintball 48cu/3000 PSI HPA setup on CL. Tank and fill station for $120 obo. I thought of offering $75 for the tank and buying the line and bleed valve separate. Is that a good idea?
Thinking of getting a Disco down the road.
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Where can fill adaptors be purchased? Im a member of a local fire department and have access to scba bottles and compressor
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there are several options out there for good fill assemblies. there is a lot of pressure in these systems and its important to have the proper rated stuff for your safety. here are 4 that i know of and dealt with :)
http://www.airhog.com/A9_Charging_Kits.html (http://www.airhog.com/A9_Charging_Kits.html)
https://www.pyramydair.com/accessories/pcp-parts (https://www.pyramydair.com/accessories/pcp-parts)
http://www.airtanksforsale.com/ (http://www.airtanksforsale.com/)
http://www.mac1airgunshop.com/co2-hpa-parts-s/1837.htm (http://www.mac1airgunshop.com/co2-hpa-parts-s/1837.htm)
most of these guys will custom build it any way you want it. just contact them and explain what you need. or get there ready made kit. :)
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Where can fill adaptors be purchased? Im a member of a local fire department and have access to scba bottles and compressor
We manufacture several different filling devices for several large gun companies including Benjamin. Here's a list of some different options for you in case you want to see what we manufacture. These are manufactured here in the United States:
https://www.pyramydair.com/search-results-ext?keyword=benjamin+fill&sid=1375A617A415&N=0&Ntk=primary&q=benjamin+fill&cx=002970863286801882398:jlcminxfwdw&cof=FORID:11;NB:1&saSearch&jsessionid=3024877BDD54F99C7CA2DA64BFE0D421.app03 (https://www.pyramydair.com/search-results-ext?keyword=benjamin+fill&sid=1375A617A415&N=0&Ntk=primary&q=benjamin+fill&cx=002970863286801882398:jlcminxfwdw&cof=FORID:11;NB:1&saSearch&jsessionid=3024877BDD54F99C7CA2DA64BFE0D421.app03)
We also have another device that also serves other purposes. The device attaches to large 6000psi bulk tanks with a CGA-677 fitting or to SCBA bottles with a DIN 300 valve. The device allows you to control the output pressure by external adjustment. The output pressure for this device can be set anywhere from 500psi all the way up to 5000psi by turning an adjustment screw and using one of the two gauges supplied with the device. If you have several guns rated at different pressures, this would be an ideal fit.
Another purpose this device serves is a regulator while being tethered. Attach it to an SCBA tank using the DIN 300 fitting, set the output pressure to the optimum pressure your gun requires to get the most optimal shots, attach a properly rated hose and use properly rated fittings and tether the SCBA bottle and fill device and go have fun :) This will eliminate the whole bell curve if your gun does not already come with a regulator.
Here's a picture of the device.
(http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af33/Pharcyide/IMG_0537_zpscabc729b.jpg)
If you have any questions about our products or filling in general, feel free to use me as a resource. 877-646-5287 x309 (Rob)
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I would just need to go from a Scott scba bottle to a foster fitting with a bleed valve in between
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Another thing I do is to have more than one bottle use one bottle down until your past usable pressure then top off with other bottle, that way you get to use more of the air from the bottle so you aren't refilling tank at 2000psi it has saved me a lot of money and time this way.
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stupid question, what keeps the air from escaping the gun reservoir when you open the bleeder
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stupid question, what keeps the air from escaping the gun reservoir when you open the bleeder
Same thing that keeps the air in when the fill hose isn't attached-- the check valve in the air fitting on the gun side. Bleed fast to keep from losing air.
I just invested in CF tanks so I'm trying to learn as much as I can. I've watched this video a few times. :P You in the same boat?
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stupid question, what keeps the air from escaping the gun reservoir when you open the bleeder
Same thing that keeps the air in when the fill hose isn't attached-- the check valve in the air fitting on the gun side. Bleed fast to keep from losing air.
I just invested in CF tanks so I'm trying to learn as much as I can. I've watched this video a few times. :P You in the same boat?
Wait.... What????
So if you bleed the air off slowly it will cause your fill pressure to leak out?
I filled my BAM B50 to 2900 psi the other day. Once finished I turned off the valve to my scuba tank and SLOWLY cracked the bleed screw on my re-fill gauge. It took about 3 or 4 minutes for the air to stop making noise. Then I disconnected the gauge and put the rifle away. They next day I loaded to fire and shot, and click... nothing happened. Sounded like a dead thud. I re-filled the rifle and went on shooting without any problems. I fired about 15 or so rounds, and put the rifle away. I just checked it earlier, and it is still full, and producing a MV of 820 fps.
So I screwed myself by bleeding slowly?
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Yep. That's also how you degas for maintenance. Followed of course by a couple of dry fires to make sure it's empty. ;)
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Where can fill adaptors be purchased? Im a member of a local fire department and have access to scba bottles and compressor
We manufacture several different filling devices for several large gun companies including Benjamin. Here's a list of some different options for you in case you want to see what we manufacture. These are manufactured here in the United States:
https://www.pyramydair.com/search-results-ext?keyword=benjamin+fill&sid=1375A617A415&N=0&Ntk=primary&q=benjamin+fill&cx=002970863286801882398:jlcminxfwdw&cof=FORID:11;NB:1&saSearch&jsessionid=3024877BDD54F99C7CA2DA64BFE0D421.app03 (https://www.pyramydair.com/search-results-ext?keyword=benjamin+fill&sid=1375A617A415&N=0&Ntk=primary&q=benjamin+fill&cx=002970863286801882398:jlcminxfwdw&cof=FORID:11;NB:1&saSearch&jsessionid=3024877BDD54F99C7CA2DA64BFE0D421.app03)
We also have another device that also serves other purposes. The device attaches to large 6000psi bulk tanks with a CGA-677 fitting or to SCBA bottles with a DIN 300 valve. The device allows you to control the output pressure by external adjustment. The output pressure for this device can be set anywhere from 500psi all the way up to 5000psi by turning an adjustment screw and using one of the two gauges supplied with the device. If you have several guns rated at different pressures, this would be an ideal fit.
Another purpose this device serves is a regulator while being tethered. Attach it to an SCBA tank using the DIN 300 fitting, set the output pressure to the optimum pressure your gun requires to get the most optimal shots, attach a properly rated hose and use properly rated fittings and tether the SCBA bottle and fill device and go have fun :) This will eliminate the whole bell curve if your gun does not already come with a regulator.
Here's a picture of the device.
(http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af33/Pharcyide/IMG_0537_zpscabc729b.jpg)
If you have any questions about our products or filling in general, feel free to use me as a resource. 877-646-5287 x309 (Rob)
You guys are just south of me... I will call tomorrow as this could be a good option for my desire to go bulk fill.
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Yep. That's also how you degas for maintenance. Followed of course by a couple of dry fires to make sure it's empty. ;)
Well, I'll be darned.
I was thinking that I had a slow leak somewhere in the gun. I had no idea I had de-gassed the gun. Jokes on me:-) When I loaded that first shot and fired the gun just said, "poof". It had barely enough air the push the pellet about 1/2 inch down the barrel. When I connected my gauge to re-fill, it "clicked" at about 150 psi when I slowly cracked the valve open on my scuba tank. So I guess the reservoir pressure was down to about 150 psi. Currently I'm using a 3500 psi High pressure steel scuba tank. It's the 80 cubic foot size. I've got two of these since I'm also into scuba diving:-) They seem to work great.
Glad to know it was me and not the rifle:-)
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The adapter that goes from an SCBA tank to the filler looks like this. But they ain't cheap since it is all stainless steel.
(http://www.rayzplace.com/auctionimages/PB-SCBA500.gif)
Ray
CompressorStuff
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What are the main components in the adapter pictured above. Is it a cga 347 to 1/4" npt male adapter followed by a bleed valve with female 1/4" npt at both ends, plus a 1/4" npt male to quick disconnect make adapter?
Is there any other market where stainless steel is considered an expensive material? I can't believe that's the reason why these adapters are so expensive. stainless steel is cheap.
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What are the main components in the adapter pictured above. Is it a cga 347 to 1/4" npt male adapter followed by a bleed valve with female 1/4" npt at both ends, plus a 1/4" npt male to quick disconnect make adapter?
Is there any other market where stainless steel is considered an expensive material? I can't believe that's the reason why these adapters are so expensive. stainless steel is cheap.
Stainless fittings with the proper pressure rating are not cheap. Have you priced the parts from Swagelok or Parker? Sure makes me rethink building my own fill adapter.
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Total newb question here.
I'm going to be buying a new carbon fiber tank for a PCP rifle. I have access to a local dive shop that will fill it for me for free. Two questions:
1. What/how do I need to have the tank setup to fill from their compressor to my tank (rifle = FWB 800X)?
2. Is there any issue if the max pressure they can get my tank to is 4000 psi (i.e. <4500)?
Apologize for the newbness. I'm just a trigger puller and a lot of the technical stuff on airguns I know will come over time.
Thanks,
Rich
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Your cylinder should cone with a valve assembly. Any certified fill station should have all of the adapters needed to fill your cylinder. You will need a fill whip setup similar to Tyler's video above to fill your airguns. If they can only fill to a max of 4,000psi, you will just not have the full capacity from your cylinders. Which would mean more or sooner trips back for refill. But the frequency of refill all depends on how much shooting you do, of course.
:)
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Thanks for that info. Had a good discussion in the chat room with a couple of guys that helped clarify. Contacted an airgun air tank supplier today and man...I know one guy that I'll never do business with.
Anyone that has to belittle the quality of products of others as well as badger me in to what a vendor is selling a rifle to me for is completely inappropriate and not an honorable way to do business. The ego of this was unbelievable.
New to this game but it's nice to quickly learn who I WON'T be doing business with.
Rich
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Thank you, Mike!
I'm getting my first PCP airgun this Christmas and your video was both very useful and informative for me! Your "safety" references and practices will be well noted and followed...HPA should be handled with great care and respectful knowledge!
I've just recently purchased my first SCBA composite air tank from Dave M. ("Monroe Air") on another airgun forum. I got my valve/fill assembly from Jimmy K. on this forum. Both of these gentlemen were extremely helpful and knowledgeable with the construction and use of my first PCP fill station assembly. There is a wealth of information here and all you have to do is ask!
Your video then put everything into clear perspective!
Thank you (and Tyler) for helping to put my mind at ease!
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Thanks for posting this Mike.
If anyone has specific questions about the set up or anything you would like to know about the process for filling guns from a SCBA tank, please do not hesitate to ask!
Tyler
your welcome buddy and again thank you for making that. you did save me the roughly 70 bucks difference with shipping my tank to have the slow fill valve installed.
and ya guys tyler has been a huge help with answering my questions since i got my tank. just know with hpa it is far better to ask rather then not to ask and have a accident because odds are a hpa accident isnt going to be walked away from. maybe rolled away on a stretcher or limped away from at best..
Its been awhile but I was hoping Mike is still around. Saw the video , nice!
I have a buddy getting into PCP but he balked at the price of a new tank 600 or so.
I said maybe we can rig up a used SCBA tank for 80.00 with a few years left on it + a cheap connector.
We so far those connectors are not cheap
- Air Hogs has a kit with 2 foot hose for 130.00
- slow flow t3 din 300 (AKA -jubilee valve) replacement valve and gauges 239.00 or 285 with hose
- A valve/gauge called the "Stickman" is $185.00
They are all similar to the video but I bet you spent way less than that.
So if you could please tell us how much the video set up (not including tank) cost.
And the parts names or where you got them. I don't know what they are even called so I have clue what to ask if I were to build my own.
Thanks!
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Thanks for the info gents, even simple tasks such as this can be a little nerve racking the first time when a person has a clue what one misstep can lead to when 4500 psi is involved.
Pat
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Great video, I really like the way the Scott valves work on those SCBA tanks, they're very easy to control the air flow,
I do have a small air venturi gage (ebay $7 deal) incorporated in my fill adaptor. I've got about $80 total into this fill adapter.
(http://i983.photobucket.com/albums/ae312/giant056/Airguns2/plumbing.jpg)
Swagelok makes great quality stuff and searching on ebay works great for finding some deals 8)
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Great video, I really like the way the Scott valves work on those SCBA tanks, they're very easy to control the air flow,
I do have a small air venturi gage (ebay $7 deal) incorporated in my fill adaptor. I've got about $80 total into this fill adapter.
(http://i983.photobucket.com/albums/ae312/giant056/Airguns2/plumbing.jpg)
Swagelok makes great quality stuff and searching on ebay works great for finding some deals 8)
Thanks Wayne52! I was going to ask how well the flow valve worked on a SCBA. I have that slow flow din valve on a shark tank. They cost like 280.00 and was trying to get a buddy set up cheaper using scba.
Can you take a pic of your tank so I can see how the entire set up looks?
I'm wondering if a 90 degree might help keep it more compact vs hanging off the tank so far.
Or maybe using a quick disconnect like my shark tank has. That way you can lug it around without worry of snapping or bending the head. See photo.
(http://puu.sh/v01AL/ee1c4c3669.jpg)
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The most expensive part on my fill adapter is the inline 1/4" npt Northshore bleeder, the CGA347 adapter I bought on ebay for about 15 dollars, the swagelok cross (1/4"npt female) I found on ebay for about $15, the two stainless 1/4"npt male 1/8" npt female reducers were $5 at a local industrial place and finally the gage I bought on Ebay was only $7.
(http://i983.photobucket.com/albums/ae312/giant056/Airguns2/filladapter.jpg)
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Thanks Wayne, not too bad for 80.00. I am just looking at options for a buddy. Can get free fills at the local fire department or 10.00 at the scuba shop.
I like having the quick connect coming right off the bottle like in the photo because I never have to unscrew anything from the tank for fills. They just hook up to the foster fitting and fill from there.
I figure the fewer times I unscrew from the main tank the less likely it is to develop leaks or wear and tear on the threads. Just unsnap the hose via quick disconnect and its read to fill or travel.
I'm wondering if putting a male quick disconnect on the CGA347 fitting would be feasible. So would be snapping on the part with the gauge for gun filling and disconnecting it for travel, leaving the CGA347 attached to the bottle all the time.
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Thanks Wayne, not too bad for 80.00. I am just looking at options for a buddy. Can get free fills at the local fire department or 10.00 at the scuba shop.
I like having the quick connect coming right off the bottle like in the photo because I never have to unscrew anything from the tank for fills. They just hook up to the foster fitting and fill from there.
I figure the fewer times I unscrew from the main tank the less likely it is to develop leaks or wear and tear on the threads. Just unsnap the hose via quick disconnect and its read to fill or travel.
I'm wondering if putting a male quick disconnect on the CGA347 fitting would be feasible. So would be snapping on the part with the gauge for gun filling and disconnecting it for travel, leaving the CGA347 attached to the bottle all the time.
I've got two of the 1 hour tanks, when I got them filled the last time I have a male foster fitting rigged up on the other one. I've thought about getting a stainless CG347 from Northshore compressors, they're mighty pricey (right around $50) but for putting them on and taking them off you can do it by hand, they're nicely knurled for hand tightening. On the fill adapter I just plug a double male foster fitting that I bought from PA for filling
(http://i983.photobucket.com/albums/ae312/giant056/Airguns2/tankfiller.jpg)
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Yes! Nice!. You have all the answers.
On the brass fitting, does that pipe coming off have to be that long? The shorter the better, waste less air bleeding after a gun fill. But yea exactly what I was talking about. Thanks!
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Yes that CGA347 nipple does need to be that long for tightening whatever fitting you'll be putting on it, the CGA nut is big and it needs to clear the spot where you tighten it up.
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Also the other day I was talking with Terry (the guy that owns the dive shop that I go to) and he was telling me that the brass CG347's are made from
much harder brass, anytime you use brass for high pressure like this you need the hard brass that's the right alloy.
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Yes that CGA347 nipple does need to be that long for tightening whatever fitting you'll be putting on it, the CGA nut is big and it needs to clear the spot where you tighten it up.
What about this? Would be shorter by 3-4 inches.
(http://puu.sh/v0707/7bdd723bdc.jpg)
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You would have to find a foster fitting that would thread onto 1/4" npt. There's different sized foster fittings too.
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You would have to find a foster fitting that would thread onto 1/4" npt. There's different sized foster fittings too.
Yea lots to learn on the parts for sure. What are the sizes that come with most airguns and my shark tank. That is the size I would shoot for although I don't know what that size is. Seems to be kind of a semi standard for PCPs.
- Amazon china special 40.00 (nope just too risky)
- home made - 80 -100.00 depends on the parts, fosters etc, what micro line to use
- Stickman - 175.00
- AirHogs - 160 ish
- airtankforsale - A bit more expensive but seems to have high quality parts, no skimping if anything overkill vs the others. I like their jubilee Din valve but its 280.00 and would be tossing out a perfectly good SCBA valve to use it.
they have a SCBA like the stickman for similar price I think.
I like the stickman as its very compact but Airtanksforsale seems a little beefier.
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Another thing one may consider is the retained resale value of quality parts , and their longevity.
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I would just need to go from a Scott scba bottle to a foster fitting with a bleed valve in between
One thing to keep in mind with the Scott bottles/valves is that the valves have 2 vent holes in the fitting. These can cause problems/leaks with some hand tight CGA347 adapters. The O-ring on the adapter falls right about where the vent hole is, and it won’t seal properly.