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All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => European/Asian Air Gun Gates => Turkish AirGun Gate => Topic started by: wknight on January 27, 2019, 06:31:11 PM

Title: Hatsan 130s and zero
Post by: wknight on January 27, 2019, 06:31:11 PM
Finally was able to get out and attempt to zero this rifle.  At 25 yards the pellets seem to be all over the place.  At 10 yards they are within 3 inches, can be better and working on it.

At 10 yards I'm using my arm as the support on the table.  At 25 yards the rifle is resting on a padded support with me holding the stock.  Could very easily be the two different holds.

Either way, before cleaning the barrel the FPS was all over the place.  Anywhere from 635 tp 771.  Figured 771 out of a rifle rated for 590 at the factory I was lucky.  Apparently too much oil in the barrel.  After cleaning a 25 shot strong was between 541 and 554.  I'm using the heavier JSB's as they were the only ones left when I order the rifle on a Black Friday sale. $200 for the rifle.  I have about 100 pellets through it now.  Even after the cleaning I still could not get a consistent 25 yard group.  According to the Hawke ballistics calculator I should be within 1 inch of POA to POI.  Really hoping it is the hols and will try again next weekend weather permitting.

On another note I had to rezero the Benjamin Trail NP2.  10 yards and 25 yards both spot on.  So I know I can do, maybe just a matter of getting use to the rifle.

Title: Re: Hatsan 130s and zero
Post by: Mossonarock on January 28, 2019, 09:31:10 AM
I'd say it definitely is a matter of getting used to the rifle. I have one too in .30 cal. Its very challenging for me to hit a 1 inch spinner at 30 yards. The rifle bucks like a mule during the shooting cycle but is otherwise respectably accurate. If you are using a scope, the scope needs to be robust to hold zero. I've been shooting mine open sights only for that reason. I plan to eventually get a scope though since that would make it easier to do 50+ yard shots.
Title: Re: Hatsan 130s and zero
Post by: wknight on January 28, 2019, 09:57:31 PM
That it does.  Saw a guy on YouTube, Tang and Bang I believe. Anyway after getting it sighted in he filmed his daughter shooting at a golf ball at 100 yards.  She hit it after 4 shots.  Similar rifle, wood stock instead of the synthetic.  Had my mind made up before seeing that, it just convinced me more.

Thanks for the advice about getting used to it.  That is what I'm hoping.
Title: Re: Hatsan 130s and zero
Post by: Mossonarock on January 29, 2019, 09:12:44 AM
I saw that video too. They had a nicer rest to shoot from than I do. I'm just using a folded towel on a log.
I'm sure if I had a better rest I could shoot more accurately. A decent scope would help at longer ranges.
As it is, I won't even attempt 100 yard shots.

As with all break barrels, make sure your barrel pivot stays tight enough.
Title: Re: Hatsan 130s and zero
Post by: wknight on February 17, 2019, 11:10:28 AM
Finally got out again to try and zero this thing.  Still not sure if it is me, the scope or the barrel.  Even after about 300 pellets still could not get any consistency out of it.  I'd get a few pellets to hit nice and tight then they would start going all over the place, even at 10 yards.

Used a laser bore sighted and the dot and crosshairs are off by only a few inches but the pellets are no where near the dot or cross hairs.  Even without changing anything the pellets do not seem to group either.

I'm using JSB Match Diablo, 50.15gr .  This was the only pellet in stock at the time I purchased the rifle. The scope is tight in the rings, the rail is tight and locked in.  The pivot screw is tight.  No barrel wobble that I can tell.  I have tried off a regular rifle rest, a back pack, free hand standing, sitting with elbows on the knee and using a pair of dowel rods as a bipod.  Nothing consistent.

I'm going to try a mounted laser of some kind whether scope mounted or barrel mounted and see if I can get some consistency without having to look through the scope.

My NP2 Trail shoots great.  In fact the scope on the .30 was on the .22 .  The scope on the .22 I tried on the .30 but could not get it sighted in so I swapped.  The scope on the .30 was dead on target out 50 yards on the .22 .  Hated to take it off the .22 because of it's accuracy but needed to try it.

Will be getting some lighter pellets to see if that works.  I'am getting between 541 and 548 FPS with the JSB's.
Title: Re: Hatsan 130s and zero
Post by: mikeyb on February 17, 2019, 02:20:34 PM
Sounds like a wandering scope-tube problem. Have you tried just using the open sights?

I know it's not the same rifle and you may well have a real problem, but this might be helpful regardless.

I shot my Hatsan Mod125 spring .25 last night after several months of shooting mostly lower power springers. I don't have it scoped because I was pretty certain this monster would DESTROY any scope I had at that time.

The open sights were dialed in at 30' when I put it away and I assumed they would still be on target. The first 10 shots grouped 3" (THREE INCHES) at 30'. WOW, that's BAD! Then I remembered this particular rifle liked the left hand on the fore grip balance point and an EXTRA lose trigger hand with very light shoulder pull.

After the hold adjustment, 5 shots went into a 1" group... MUCH better! Put up a pine board to make some toothpicks and the next 5 shots went into a ~3/8" group, one ragged hole. That's what I remembered this rifle could do if I did my part.

I shoot a standing artillery hold (let the gun do its dance) with an elevated elbow rest. That form is something I can replicate most of the time when out hunting. Follow-through is critical. The Mod125 spring action hits my cheek pretty HARD and I have to really concentrate to NOT FLINCH for each and every shot. When I do flinch the shot almost always goes wide. If I can focus and keep both eyes open on the target until after the pellet hits, the Mod125-25 can be deadly accurate. Chrony read a solid 30 fpe at 30' with 27.8 grain Benjamin Domes.

You verified your velocity is consistent (no obvious seal problems) and all screws are tight. If lots of practice with your best hold technique using the open sights does not improve the groups, you may have a barrel crown or suppressor baffle clipping issue.
Title: Re: Hatsan 130s and zero
Post by: wknight on February 17, 2019, 06:06:55 PM
I did try the open sites.  No help.

I did try removing the baffles to see what happens. Did not see much of a difference unless I did not get all of them out.  "Two baffles and two spacers?).  When I look through the breech end I can see some of the baffle on one side but not the other.  I did try sliding a cleaning rod very lightly through to see if it caught a baffle but it appeared to not catch anything.

I did buy an inexpensive laser, Daisy, to mount on the rail but of course the front site is in the way.  The screw is extremely tight so I'm not wanting to strip the head out.
Title: Re: Hatsan 130s and zero
Post by: Mossonarock on February 18, 2019, 04:25:39 PM
I tried a UTG laser sight on my 130 .30 cal and it would not hold zero at all. Every shot would bounce the POI around.
I'm still in the process of deciding what to do since a scope with mil-dots would be the best way to take aim with this rifle considering its arched trajectory. I'd like to get to where I can take 75 yd shots with it. Till then, its 25 yards and open sights.
Title: Re: Hatsan 130s and zero
Post by: wknight on February 18, 2019, 07:48:50 PM
This is the scope I have had on my Trail NP2 without fail.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004CVER4I/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00__o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004CVER4I/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00__o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

Admittedly the Hatsan is more powerful but figured it would hold up.

I couldn't even get the open sites to work for me.

I have an email in to Hatsan USA, just waiting for a response.  Hopefully I can get out this weekend, weather permitting, and try again. 
Title: Re: Hatsan 130s and zero
Post by: Mossonarock on February 19, 2019, 11:24:40 AM
Oops, I said POI, I should have said POA. The rifle would bounce the internals of the laser sight around with every shot.
Title: Re: Hatsan 130s and zero
Post by: Back_Roads on February 19, 2019, 10:35:32 PM
 Many have had good results with this budget scope.
https://www.amazon.com/Hammers-3-9x32AO-Rifle-Scope-One-Piece/dp/B001BXVCMU/ref=pd_sbs_200_1/131-8877580-4281041?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B001BXVCMU&pd_rd_r=82a4d1d3-34b7-11e9-8bc5-11aa1570e183&pd_rd_w=IFYSt&pd_rd_wg=ZZqgS&pf_rd_p=588939de-d3f8-42f1-a3d8-d556eae5797d&pf_rd_r=VQTD76RCGQ11EW9TPESR&psc=1&refRID=VQTD76RCGQ11EW9TPESR (https://www.amazon.com/Hammers-3-9x32AO-Rifle-Scope-One-Piece/dp/B001BXVCMU/ref=pd_sbs_200_1/131-8877580-4281041?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B001BXVCMU&pd_rd_r=82a4d1d3-34b7-11e9-8bc5-11aa1570e183&pd_rd_w=IFYSt&pd_rd_wg=ZZqgS&pf_rd_p=588939de-d3f8-42f1-a3d8-d556eae5797d&pf_rd_r=VQTD76RCGQ11EW9TPESR&psc=1&refRID=VQTD76RCGQ11EW9TPESR)

 Use your laser as an night time illuminater :)
Title: Re: Hatsan 130s and zero
Post by: longhunter on February 20, 2019, 10:14:17 AM
I did try the open sites.  No help.

I did try removing the baffles to see what happens. Did not see much of a difference unless I did not get all of them out.  "Two baffles and two spacers?).  When I look through the breech end I can see some of the baffle on one side but not the other.  I did try sliding a cleaning rod very lightly through to see if it caught a baffle but it appeared to not catch anything.

I did buy an inexpensive laser, Daisy, to mount on the rail but of course the front site is in the way.  The screw is extremely tight so I'm not wanting to strip the head out.

If you can see part of the baffles, looking through the breach, you're clipping the pellets. Ream out the shroud, using a drill bit turned by hand, until you don't see any more obstruction.
I had to do this to a 125 I used to own.
Title: Re: Hatsan 130s and zero
Post by: wknight on April 27, 2019, 07:41:18 PM
I know the last response has been a few months but wanted to update.

Finally took the time to take this rifle back out today.  Don't know what changed but it was like night and day from the last time I shot it.  At about 25yds I'm staying with in a 6-8 inch circle.  Plenty of room for improvement yet but a lot better than it was. Was even hitting a 12 oz water bottle that was laying on the ground at 50 yards.

Now to get more pellets and grease the cocking linkage for easier cocking.
Title: Re: Hatsan 130s and zero
Post by: triggerfest on April 28, 2019, 03:32:52 AM
Might be an obvious question, but are you applying the artillery hold went holding your airgun ? So when you say you hold the stock on the rested support, do you hold it loosely or tight ? It has to be loosely so the airgun can move. Once you have found the right (loosely) hold for it and you apply that hold consistenlly, you'll find the groupings will improve.
Title: Re: Hatsan 130s and zero
Post by: wknight on April 28, 2019, 07:28:35 PM
When using my hand I do use the artillery hold.  The Optimus and Trail NP2 I have also favor the artillery hold. I have used a back pack and most recently this gun rest: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/838651/caldwell-steady-rest-nxt-rifle-shooting-rest (https://www.midwayusa.com/product/838651/caldwell-steady-rest-nxt-rifle-shooting-rest) .

I used just the front of rest. This time I believe I was using just enough pressure against the shoulder to hold it in place.  Yesterday I was even hitting the 12oz bottle while standing unsupported and sitting unsupported.  As the bottle got further away I did resort to support.  Because I was sitting I rested the gun on the seat of a Harbor Freight camp chair.  It was the perfect height the way I was sitting.

I did not try the open sights yesterday as the scope seemed to be working pretty well.  Last time I tried it was no better than the scope.  The target back I user was about 3X3 feet.  I use a small shoot and see target. About 9X9 inches. Previously the pellets were all over the card board.  This time they stayed on the target unless I purposely shot away from it.  Just some practice and fine tuning.

As mentioned I happy with this rifle now.  Just need to get more pellets and more practice with it.
Title: Re: Hatsan 130s and zero
Post by: Yogi on April 28, 2019, 10:18:28 PM
Look up and practice the quattro trigger pull! ;)

-Y
Title: Re: Hatsan 130s and zero
Post by: A.K.A. Tommy Boy on April 28, 2019, 10:54:08 PM
wknight:

I have got pictures of the Quattro Trigger Pull if you wish to see them.   It works for me.




Best Wishes - Tom
Title: Re: Hatsan 130s and zero
Post by: wknight on May 08, 2019, 09:58:41 PM
Sorry about the delay. What do you mean by "The Quattro Pull"?  Is this a technique or an adjustment?

I normally find find a comfortable position for my finger and gently squeeze the trigger backwards.  If a trigger has a gentle upward swing to it I try to follow that also.
Title: Re: Hatsan 130s and zero
Post by: A.K.A. Tommy Boy on May 08, 2019, 10:25:53 PM
Sorry about the delay. What do you mean by "The Quattro Pull"?  Is this a technique or an adjustment?

I normally find find a comfortable position for my finger and gently squeeze the trigger backwards.  If a trigger has a gentle upward swing to it I try to follow that also.

Bill :


Hatsan recommends that the Quattro Trigger be pulled with an upward angle.  This can be easily done... by letting your trigger finger follow the upward curve of the trigger guard as demonstrated in the pictures below.  The pictures were taken from the old discontinued Hatsan web site.


Best Wishes - Tom
Title: Re: Hatsan 130s and zero
Post by: Back_Roads on May 08, 2019, 11:48:01 PM
 I compare it more to lifting the trigger rather than pulling it  ;)
Title: Re: Hatsan 130s and zero
Post by: wknight on May 15, 2019, 08:31:04 PM
Again I apologize for the delay.  I will give it  a try.
Title: Re: Hatsan 130s and zero
Post by: mikeyb on May 15, 2019, 08:47:41 PM
<------ That's a pretty accurate animation of the Quattro trigger parts in motion. Trigger blade does favor more lift than pull.
Title: Re: Hatsan 130s and zero
Post by: Yogi on May 16, 2019, 07:01:05 PM
Again I apologize for the delay.  I will give it  a try.

They should explain it in the owner's manual.

Give it a try, I find that it makes a world of difference. :o

MikeyB-
Good accurate diagram.  "More lift than pull", where have i heard that before?? 8)

-Y
Title: Re: Hatsan 130s and zero
Post by: a279 on June 30, 2019, 02:22:07 AM
My zeroing problems are due to the recoil moving the 3x44 red dot and having to retighten/adjust every few shots. I am ordering a "scope stop" to see if this helps. I also noticed that this rifle responds well to "following through" when shooting.
Title: Re: Hatsan 130s and zero
Post by: Mossonarock on July 01, 2019, 11:22:22 AM
This rifle demands a sighting system that will hold zero. A scope stop may not be enough for you since it may be the internals of the scope being shaken around by the rifle's recoil.
A Diana Bullseye ZR mount is worth considering but you might not find a red dot sight that will work with the ZR mount. You may have to go with traditional glass scope- airgun rated of course.
Title: Re: Hatsan 130s and zero
Post by: a279 on July 02, 2019, 11:55:07 AM
This rifle demands a sighting system that will hold zero. A scope stop may not be enough for you since it may be the internals of the scope being shaken around by the rifle's recoil.
A Diana Bullseye ZR mount is worth considering but you might not find a red dot sight that will work with the ZR mount. You may have to go with traditional glass scope- airgun rated of course.
I firmly believe that ALL rifles demand a sighting system that can hold a zero. I am waiting for the loctite to cure and will be testing it this evening.
Title: Re: Hatsan 130s and zero
Post by: Mossonarock on July 03, 2019, 12:22:03 PM
Well yeah, but my point is that this rifle will shake around the internals of a scope more so than lesser powered springers- in addition to the scope sliding on the mount like you are dealing with. Yes, a firm scope stop is absolutely required with this rifle. Weaver mounts are great for this rifle for that reason.
Title: Re: Hatsan 130s and zero
Post by: a279 on July 05, 2019, 05:31:27 PM
The ebay "bushnell" 3x44 red dot backed with a "Sun Optics USA Airgun Scope Mount 11 mm Recoil Stop Block"(amazon) + loctite on everything seems like its working so far after one tin of pellets. No official grouping measurements, but with my amateur shooting I can make a ragged hole the size of ping pong ball on a splatter target with jsb 44 grains @ 25 yards. Also went camping and was hitting twigs and pieces of forest floor debris consistently from ~20 yards without having to adjust for any creep/slippage. One thing that I thought people were exaggerating about the 130 before I purchased it was the trajectory of the pellet, but it is no joke and will require a lot of practice to judge elevations and make accurate shots at different distances past~30 yards (rough visual estimate) where the pellet seems to drop like a rock.   
Title: Re: Hatsan 130s and zero
Post by: JPEA on July 16, 2020, 08:45:51 PM
Hi, first-time poster on this forum. I recently purchased a Hatsan 130 and am working on dialing it in--trigger, sights, etc... (Actually, I purchased a 135, and a 130 with a scope was delivered.) Now I have a scope that I would like to have the option to use effectively, but I need a scope stop. I see in this thread that the Sun Optics 11MM STOP BLOCK - SM7005 was recommended. Has anyone had good fortune with other stops that fit this gun? Many thanks!
Title: Re: Hatsan 130s and zero
Post by: Back_Roads on July 16, 2020, 10:47:44 PM
 I would use the weaver mounts that are on the rifle vs. the 11mm rail. Get a good set of weaver mounts that have at lest 4 screws per ring.
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/leapers-premium-1-rings-medium-weaver-mount-see-thru?a=789 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/leapers-premium-1-rings-medium-weaver-mount-see-thru?a=789)
Title: Re: Hatsan 130s and zero
Post by: Yogi on July 17, 2020, 07:03:02 AM
Hi, first-time poster on this forum. I recently purchased a Hatsan 130 and am working on dialing it in--trigger, sights, etc... (Actually, I purchased a 135, and a 130 with a scope was delivered.) Now I have a scope that I would like to have the option to use effectively, but I need a scope stop. I see in this thread that the Sun Optics 11MM STOP BLOCK - SM7005 was recommended. Has anyone had good fortune with other stops that fit this gun? Many thanks!

Jim,

The Optima scope that is on your Hatsan is pure junk!  Replace now or soon. ;)

-Y
Title: Re: Hatsan 130s and zero
Post by: avator on July 17, 2020, 08:31:45 AM
If I didn't miss anything the OP said he has only tried the one pellet.
Be a shame to dump a bunch of money on scopes and red dots just to find out that the gun don't like that particular pellet. I would order up a sample pack and try different pellets.
Title: Re: Hatsan 130s and zero
Post by: JPEA on July 17, 2020, 01:29:41 PM
I would use the weaver mounts that are on the rifle vs. the 11mm rail. Get a good set of weaver mounts that have at lest 4 screws per ring.
(link not allowed by gateway)

Thanks, Back Roads. That sounds like a better solution. 

Yogi, what do you like?

Meanwhile, I am shooting open sights, trying to learn how to handle this thing.  ;D

Title: Re: Hatsan 130s and zero
Post by: Mossonarock on July 21, 2020, 12:24:14 PM
It does take some time to get used to handling a springer with this much recoil, but it can be done!
I've gotten rather confident with shooting mine accurately enough out to 50yds but its taken me a couple years.
Remember, these are for shooting big targets real hard! so, don't worry yourself with trying to shoot 1/2 inch groups.
Title: Re: Hatsan 130s and zero
Post by: A.K.A. Tommy Boy on July 21, 2020, 01:17:11 PM
Hi knight (Bill) !

I have a 22 cal Walther Talon Magnum which is in-fact, actually a Hatsan 125 with the Walther name on it..  This rifle is Spring Piston powered.

I shot two 10 shot groups yesterday. The first group was with loose stock screws and was somewhat erratic, scattered & to the right of the 1 1/2 inch bullseye.

After I re-torqued the rifle stock screws I shot the second 10 shot grouping.  That one was much better and all 10 shots were in the bullseye.

The target was placed out at 35 yards.  I was shooting 22 cal JSB Exact 18.13 gr. domed pellets.

I shot at the target while seated on a 3 legged camp stool.  The shots were taken, semi-off hand, with my for-stock hand braced on an upright door jamb.


The pictures of the shot groups are in this post, if you wish to see them.  >  https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=175207.msg155991398#msg155991398 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=175207.msg155991398#msg155991398)


Best Wishes - Tom