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All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General > Engineering- Research & Development
Mechanical valve design
Motorhead:
Not sure where to start .... Designed or been in the R&D loop for so many.
Peek poppets, smaller sealing area, altered throats & transfer paths ....
Cobra valve Tech ....
Balanced valves & Redesigning them for low stiction, no 1st shot drop off, low mass hammers & SSG's etc ....
A more specific Q i could offer input ... general statement creates too much revisiting & typing.
mackeral5:
--- Quote from: Motorhead on August 24, 2023, 06:40:06 PM ---Not sure where to start .... Designed or been in the R&D loop for so many.
Peek poppets, smaller sealing area, altered throats & transfer paths ....
Cobra valve Tech ....
Balanced valves & Redesigning them for low stiction, no 1st shot drop off, low mass hammers & SSG's etc ....
A more specific Q i could offer input ... general statement creates too much revisiting & typing.
--- End quote ---
i am thinking some type of valve that can only be opened by the hammer once, and must be reset by a separate operation, perhaps integrated with cocking. Perhaps it has a poppet and balance chamber, perhaps it does not.
Tuneable for dwell/lift, easy to open/close, no susceptible to hammer bounce in any way.
How would we achieve those things?
sb327:
--- Quote from: Motorhead on August 24, 2023, 06:40:06 PM ---Not sure where to start .... Designed or been in the R&D loop for so many.
Peek poppets, smaller sealing area, altered throats & transfer paths ....
Cobra valve Tech ....
Balanced valves & Redesigning them for low stiction, no 1st shot drop off, low mass hammers & SSG's etc ....
A more specific Q i could offer input ... general statement creates too much revisiting & typing.
--- End quote ---
It’s more of just a general question about the what we are trying to achieve with any new valve technology. What goals we are shooting for, so to speak.
Dave
sb327:
--- Quote from: mackeral5 on August 24, 2023, 06:22:52 PM ---
--- Quote from: sb327 on August 24, 2023, 09:04:47 AM ---Mike,
That does seem like it would cause an extra event to have to deal with during the shot cycle. Significant anyway.
Rob,
I remember looking at the hammer early on in the piloted valve adventure. I can’t seem to find one to look at now.
I have two different valves that run on the pilot principle. An inline and a conventional. I’ve been working on the conventional one lately. Testing (mine and Matt’s) have shown some surprising results. Efficiency is good, no orings in the design, inability to release air due to hammer bounce, hammer strike tuneable along with the obvious advantages of light hammer strike.
The main disadvantage is that it’s not easy (for me anyway) to build, lol. I could make a couple balanced valves in the time it takes to make this one. But if you like to mess with valves, it’ll be one I suggest to try.
Dave
--- End quote ---
Dave- Regarding the current valve you are working on....I could tell there was more to it the way Matt has been rather exclamatory about the fact that the valve is almost accidental discharge-proof. Whether intentional or not it is almost like he is trying to bait someone in to a debate on the topic. I look forward to if and when the two of you share what your recent learnings.
Regarding the current Simplified balanced valve.... The ability to tune balance chamber volume via piston height, and the piston being moveable away from the valve seat, that coupled with some type of hammer-induced lift control and buffer system proved to be very good tuning tools. I somewhat have a decent grasp on how they interact, but there is still more to learn. I paused that testing for a while, degassing to adjust piston height and test was wearing on me. I'll resume at some point, but for now I returned the test mule back to a simple peek poppet over a minimum for caliber valve throat area....
Mike
--- End quote ---
I’ll definitely be posting up the latest at some point. Matt has done a good animation of it that shows how it works.
Dave
MJP:
I personally like the L2 design, but not the actuation mechanism.
I made modifications and different leverage for my own version of the gun.
It's better but could be refined still.
I hate hammer valves, too much harmonics before any movement of the projectile.
And I don't fancy any electronics on a gun.
Small striker or preferably a self setting valve, pressure actuated and trigger just releases the valve for firing. Pressure differential closing to reset.
1 repeatability
2 reliability
3 power
Or if just one shot, all out flow and power. I could care less about efficiency sound or recoil.
Gun should say bang and give you a positive report that you shot something other than 4.5mm bb gun
All good designs are efficient on what they are meant for.
Air is not a problem, so making the most out of it by reducing power for extra shot in some meaningless string when not tethered is not interesting at all.
Marko
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