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Author Topic: What is a good step up from a 4-16x40AO scope?  (Read 415 times))

Offline Thebloodyhound90

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What is a good step up from a 4-16x40AO scope?
« on: August 16, 2021, 03:26:15 PM »
Hi all, been shooting my utg Hunter 4-16x40ao scope on my Mrod for a couple months now and it’s been fine.

However, it’s not the most clear at full magnification. When I go out at night to escort my dogs against skunks, I can hardly use the zoom as it gets sooooo dark.

My initial plans were to get a UTG 6-24x50ao later on as the larger objective will let in more light. However I realized (and read reviews) that it’ll be even darker than my current scope when zoomed in at greater than 16x, so what would be the point of having the additional zoom except for in the day when 16x was fine at 80 yards (Limit to my current range setup)?

So last night I went out with just my little dog held in my arms at first cause he will rush a skunk the instant he detects it. As I’m looking around with my arms full and my Mrod slung over my shoulder, one of “our” foxes decided to get frisky. It runs up to me and actually sniffed my pants before stepping back a few feet and then coming back to me to sniff me again. He hung out for almost five mins doing that. It was an incredible experience but after about 3 mins of it, my dog couldn’t take it any longer and bucked wildly in my arms, causing my rifle sling to slip off my shoulder, fall, and hit the grass. The rifle is fine but the scope is messed up.

So I quickly ordered the same scope just to get my Mrod, protector of all against skunks, up and running again asap. But I still want to upgrade the scope. I can just return the 4-16 or use it on my Air Venturi m1a (if PA ever stocks the scope mount again) if need be.

So, what is the next step up from a sub $200 UTG AO scope? Would prefer one in the sub $400 range, but I understand quality glass costs money. What brands/models should I be looking at for legit improvement over the utg?

Not looking for the very best $2,000 Scope but am curious what is out there for $100-200 more than the utg’s.

Thanks.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2021, 03:29:06 PM by Thebloodyhound90 »
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Offline KevinJBrown

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Re: What is a good step up from a 4-16x40AO scope?
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2021, 04:15:03 PM »
Not being funny, (and not knowing your sling arrangement) but you might want to consider a better slinging arrangement while moving.

Something like a Blue Force Vickers Sling with a tri-glide and sling it across your body to free both arms/hands. Cheaper than damaged systems.

For an air rifle scope, I like my Hawke. and they have some in the $400 range. For about $100 more you can look at a Hawke AIRMAX 30 FFP SF 4-16x50, which is what I would think about if most/all of my shooting was in low light conditions. Probably something is available used to upgrade from what I have also.

 
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Offline mrbulk

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Re: What is a good step up from a 4-16x40AO scope?
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2021, 04:25:17 PM »
Don't have a scope of higher magnification to suggest, but was thinking that when out and about at night, wouldn't you want a closer-range scope with greater light gathering? And magnification might not be a priority unless you are shooting at skunks 50 yards away or further...at night.

Of course if you needed it in the day, then for me at least (old eyes) the greater the mag the better.
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Offline Bayman

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Re: What is a good step up from a 4-16x40AO scope?
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2021, 04:55:31 PM »
High magnification scopes are terrible for low light situations. Generally the higher the magnification the darker they are. That's why they need large objective lenses. Depending on how close you have to shoot skunks on your walks you might be better off with a lower power scope. Even a red dot or open sights are better at close quarters and low light. If this is your primary rifle and you prefer the high magnification for daily shooting, you may want to get a beater with a straight 4x or open sights for your evening walks. Just a thought.
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Offline Thebloodyhound90

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Re: What is a good step up from a 4-16x40AO scope?
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2021, 05:28:02 PM »
Looking for one single scope for primarily day time paper punching at 30-80 yards that can double as a scope at night. The utg 4-16 works ok at night at 4 power with a light source illuminating what’s out in front of me, but I can’t use any zoom.

My main complaint is just how the scope gets darker and grainy at 16x even during the day. It’s plenty usable I guess, but noticeably less clear/bright than at even 12x.

So I’m looking for the next step in glass clarity to make the sight picture clearer and brighter at all light levels/times of day or night. Obviously in low light or max magnification it’ll be less clear than in the day but better glass clarity should help in all scenarios compared to the budget glass clarity of the utg’s.
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Offline Thebloodyhound90

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Re: What is a good step up from a 4-16x40AO scope?
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2021, 05:35:29 PM »
Not being funny, (and not knowing your sling arrangement) but you might want to consider a better slinging arrangement while moving.

Something like a Blue Force Vickers Sling with a tri-glide and sling it across your body to free both arms/hands. Cheaper than damaged systems.

For an air rifle scope, I like my Hawke. and they have some in the $400 range. For about $100 more you can look at a Hawke AIRMAX 30 FFP SF 4-16x50, which is what I would think about if most/all of my shooting was in low light conditions. Probably something is available used to upgrade from what I have also.

Yeah I’ve been tearing the house apart looking for my extra blue force gear vcas sling but haven’t found it yet. I have one of the original BFG Vickers vcas padded slings on my Colt sbr and a regular black one I got during a promotion BFG was running for buy one get one. Gave one to my dad for his sbr and the other one set aside for “whenever I need another sling.” Of course when I finally do need another sling, I can’t find it.

In all fairness though, I wouldn’t have had it slung diagonally across my back with even the vcas sling and this leather one has been fine just over one shoulder rq. But my fat af chihuahua (almost 30 pounds...but he’s tall for a chihuahua) really bucked hard trying to check out this wild fox inches from him. I couldn’t even get mad at him cause he chilled silently for about 3 whole minutes while the fox was being cool. 
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Offline bear air

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Re: What is a good step up from a 4-16x40AO scope?
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2021, 05:55:09 PM »
You might want to check out some Vector Optics scopes. They have the marksman 6x24x44 FFP for around 250 dollars. It is small and pretty light. I have been eyeballing them for a long minute now lol.
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Offline Thebloodyhound90

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Re: What is a good step up from a 4-16x40AO scope?
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2021, 05:57:48 PM »
You might want to check out some Vector Optics scopes. They have the marksman 6x24x44 FFP for around 250 dollars. It is small and pretty light. I have been eyeballing them for a long minute now lol.

I’ll have a look.
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Offline bear air

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Re: What is a good step up from a 4-16x40AO scope?
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2021, 06:03:19 PM »
The Veyron is supposed to be good too.
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Offline Yogi

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Re: What is a good step up from a 4-16x40AO scope?
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2021, 08:35:36 PM »
Get a PCP pistol for your walks! ;D

Now for getting a better scope, Cabela's has some nice scopes on sale.  Guy I know just bought a 3-24X 54, 34mm diameter scope that is very nice.Heavy as all heck.FFP
Not sure if it it springer rated, if you want to move it around.

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Offline mrbulk

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Re: What is a good step up from a 4-16x40AO scope?
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2021, 09:39:47 PM »
Looking for one single scope for primarily day time paper punching at 30-80 yards that can double as a scope at night. The utg 4-16 works ok at night at 4 power with a light source illuminating what’s out in front of me, but I can’t use any zoom.

My main complaint is just how the scope gets darker and grainy at 16x even during the day. It’s plenty usable I guess, but noticeably less clear/bright than at even 12x.

So I’m looking for the next step in glass clarity to make the sight picture clearer and brighter at all light levels/times of day or night. Obviously in low light or max magnification it’ll be less clear than in the day but better glass clarity should help in all scenarios compared to the budget glass clarity of the utg’s.

Many of us including myself bought one of these recently:

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=186044.0

Highest power, brightest scope I have (although if you look at my collection that might not be saying much)... :D
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Offline Back_Roads

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Re: What is a good step up from a 4-16x40AO scope?
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2021, 09:51:56 PM »
 One thing for sure is get a 30mm or larger tube, and one thing to check out or ask about when you see something that may fit your needs, is does it focus to the closer ranges you may need it to.
 Perhaps check with WesBob at airgun archery fun, I have bought some pretty decent clear scopes from him in the price range you are looking in.
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Offline Booder98

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Re: What is a good step up from a 4-16x40AO scope?
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2021, 11:06:49 AM »
The Veyron is supposed to be good too.
My Veyron FFP is nice, but its reticle is very thin and not illuminated.
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Offline rsterne

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Re: What is a good step up from a 4-16x40AO scope?
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2021, 02:36:02 PM »
Low light situation require an exit pupil on the scope of 7-8mm or larger.... You can calculate that by dividing the objective lense diameter by the magnification.... For your 4-16 x 40 scope, at 4X that is (40/4) = 10mm which is great for low light.... At 6X, it is (40/6) = 6.7mm, which is marginal, so using any magnification higher than 6X would be too dark.... The reason for this criteria is that the pupil of the human eye opens up to 7-8mm in the dark....

You will run into the same problems with a 50mm scope, but at a slightly higher magnification.... At 7X, it would be (50/7) = 7.1mm, anything higher it would start to darken.... For low light, low magnification is the key, unfortunately....  ::)

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Offline mobilehomer

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Re: What is a good step up from a 4-16x40AO scope?
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2021, 03:29:26 PM »
Low light situation require an exit pupil on the scope of 7-8mm or larger.... You can calculate that by dividing the objective lense diameter by the magnification.... For your 4-16 x 40 scope, at 4X that is (40/4) = 10mm which is great for low light.... At 6X, it is (40/6) = 6.7mm, which is marginal, so using any magnification higher than 6X would be too dark.... The reason for this criteria is that the pupil of the human eye opens up to 7-8mm in the dark....

You will run into the same problems with a 50mm scope, but at a slightly higher magnification.... At 7X, it would be (50/7) = 7.1mm, anything higher it would start to darken.... For low light, low magnification is the key, unfortunately....  ::)

Bob

Exactly, Bob. Through a warranty issue, I went from the same scope to a UTG 4-16 X 56 (3.5 EP at 16X) Not only much better glass and glass reticle, but much larger OL.
I was going to suggest to OP a larger OL. 40, to me, is marginal for a 3-9.

Offline nced

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Re: What is a good step up from a 4-16x40AO scope?
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2021, 04:04:27 PM »
Hi all, been shooting my utg Hunter 4-16x40ao scope on my Mrod for a couple months now and it’s been fine.

However, it’s not the most clear at full magnification. When I go out at night to escort my dogs against skunks, I can hardly use the zoom as it gets sooooo dark.

My initial plans were to get a UTG 6-24x50ao later on as the larger objective will let in more light. However I realized (and read reviews) that it’ll be even darker than my current scope when zoomed in at greater than 16x, so what would be the point of having the additional zoom except for in the day when 16x was fine at 80 yards (Limit to my current range setup)?

So last night I went out with just my little dog held in my arms at first cause he will rush a skunk the instant he detects it. As I’m looking around with my arms full and my Mrod slung over my shoulder, one of “our” foxes decided to get frisky. It runs up to me and actually sniffed my pants before stepping back a few feet and then coming back to me to sniff me again. He hung out for almost five mins doing that. It was an incredible experience but after about 3 mins of it, my dog couldn’t take it any longer and bucked wildly in my arms, causing my rifle sling to slip off my shoulder, fall, and hit the grass. The rifle is fine but the scope is messed up.

So I quickly ordered the same scope just to get my Mrod, protector of all against skunks, up and running again asap. But I still want to upgrade the scope. I can just return the 4-16 or use it on my Air Venturi m1a (if PA ever stocks the scope mount again) if need be.

So, what is the next step up from a sub $200 UTG AO scope? Would prefer one in the sub $400 range, but I understand quality glass costs money. What brands/models should I be looking at for legit improvement over the utg?

Not looking for the very best $2,000 Scope but am curious what is out there for $100-200 more than the utg’s.

Thanks.
I also have "issues" with my 4-16x44 Hawke Compact 30 scope set at 16x. On normally lit lanes I don't have much issue but trying to scope rangefind on a dark lane is a hassle. The reticle lighting solves the "see reticle against killzone" issue but does nothing for increasing 16x resolution. I was squadded with a hunter class shooter who didn't seem to have the same "less than crisp focus" issue I had. I learned that his scope (don't remember the brand) had a max mag of 20X, however the 13x max setting was a bit crisper than the crispness I got using a 16x setting on my 19X scope. This does cause me to consider buying a 6-20X scope and use it at 16x to get a bit more crispness on the darker lanes.

Anywhoo....I don't know if the above is valid for all scopes but I don't seem to do any better with a 16x setting than I did when the max allowed hunter class power limit caused me to turn down the scope power from 16X to 12X.
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Offline eeler1

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Re: What is a good step up from a 4-16x40AO scope?
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2021, 11:48:52 AM »
Taking the dog skunk hunting at night is not something I've ever thought about.  But, for that purpose, I'd probably figure out a way to mount a light.  Not sure, but I think the skunks eyes will light up when they are in the beam, and they may freeze in place for a bit too. 
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Offline JungleShooter

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Re: What is a good step up from a 4-16x40AO scope?
« Reply #17 on: August 27, 2021, 01:46:11 AM »
Dan/ Bloodhound,

the "next step up from" your previous scope
well — that depends on which stair case you'll be taking, since there are several, and each allows you to take steps up from your previous scope. 😄 👍🏼

🔶 I'll attach a Scope Specs Table that covers your particular magnification range (4-16x | 3-18x | 4-24x).
You can compare the specs of about 80+ scopes — including the features I mention below:


🔸 Price: yeah, there are almost countless steps up from your UTG scope, but most on the list are under $500.


🔸 Side Focus: Almost all have side parallax, a step up from OA. 
 
 
🔸 Warranty:  Hard to beat UTG's. 
   
 
🔸 Glass Quality: Well, most UTG's, if I go by what I read, are at the bottom of the stair case. 
So, if you go with the $200-$400 scopes made in China you often will get something much better: Athlon, Discovery , Vector, to name a few.   
   
🔸 Top End Magnification:  Well, you already have 16x on the top, that seems sufficient for 80 yards. More magnification doesn't hurt — if indeed it doesn't hurt....

But, it DOES hurt!
Because the higher your top end magnification the higher your bottom end magnification. For example:
—You have a 4-16x. Very common.
—But a 4-20x... — no so much.
—And a 4-24x — very rare, and often quite expensive.
—A 4-32x — for only a  couple of grands and it's yours.
 
🔸 So, what's more important — bottom end or top end magnification?
And how much do you need?

➔ Well, the top end magnification is important for getting a far away tiny target large enough to hit it (or to see your impacts). 

The bottom end magnification is important for your field of view (FoV)
 
Since you are stalk hunting, quarry could pop up very close and requires a quick target acquisition. THAT'S WHAT YOU NEED A WIDE FoV FOR...! 😊 
Even more so if you're tyring to acquire quarry in the dark!!
 
 
🔸A 6-24x usually does not have a very wide FoV.
A 4-16x is better.
Much better is a 3-12x or 3-15x or 3-18x.
However, do not be fooled by the magnification numbers. Because each scope has its own FoV — so you need to check the FoV specs, not the magnification.
 
 
🔸Personally, for stalk hunting and close range hunting I want a minimum FoV of 30ft @ 100y. Your ability to acquire your quarry under adverse conditions will vary.

  🔸A step up in focal plane?  That depends on you if FFP is really a step up from an SFP scope.
The difference is only significant if you use the reticle for holdoffs. If you dial the turrets for a change of POA, this is no factor. The Scope Specs Table is categorized into FFP and SFP as this is a big difference.




🔶 I also have Specs Tables for 3-12x (3-9x) and for 6-24x (5-20x) scopes, but the Specs Table below seems to be about the best magnification range.


Happy scope shopping! 😊

Matthias


❌ Attachment:
Scope Specs Table 4-16x | 3-18x | 4-20x
« Last Edit: August 27, 2021, 01:51:08 AM by JungleShooter »
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