GTA

All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Air Archery => Topic started by: darkcharisma on February 29, 2020, 03:39:47 PM

Title: Inside an Air Javelin
Post by: darkcharisma on February 29, 2020, 03:39:47 PM
Got an Air Javelin the other day. Umarex shipped it quick and i got it in less than 3 days.

upon arrival. it is super light! the unit without Co2 cartridge weight in at 1671 grams.

I opened her up and this is what the inside looks like after unscrewing all screws on the right side of the rifle.

The valve unit looks like a one piece pcp valve that has a small plenum. i havent been able to get the valve apart but its nothing but pins on the sides. i may need a screw to pull the plugs. I lined them up with an hpa bottle to prep and see if fitting one would be feasible. 13ci bottles may be best given it has smaller OD.

now that i got to see the insides, $169 is doable and priced right...$100 would be a Great deal and $200 would be too high.

the synthetic two pieces are flimsy and can flex side ways with just a bit of force, it is semi firm and flex little when forcing up or down.

Trigger is horrible, long pull and lets go at the very end of trigger travel. this is because the sear is not anchored via a one solid hole but the whole sear can move out from the trigger shoe due to an elongated anchored hole. stupid! it would have a better break if its a round hole. is this one of the safety features? then why have a safety trigger pin?
Title: Re: Inside an Air Javelin
Post by: darkcharisma on March 01, 2020, 01:39:24 PM
Shot one dozen today. the speed is 267fps max for the included 169grains on first shot. not as advertised at 300fps.

then it averaged out at 230fps...

man oh man. i am not excited about that. but then again...i am not one to complain for a refund. i will just mod it later for 800psi hpa.
Title: Re: Inside an Air Javelin
Post by: Rob M on March 01, 2020, 02:12:11 PM
very similar design to many paintball guns ive dissected and modified.. not much going on in there as its consolidated in the valve casting.. I do think regged 850 hpa will get your numbers up there..  thanks for sharing the pics.also looks easy to swap out the hammer spring , or add a power adjust of some sort ( spacers and the like)
id does appear like the molding is inhibiting the hammer travel , not sure if thats true in real life , but id test that theory in real life and make sure than hammer can really smash that valve stem home to get the max potenial.. efficiency should not even be considered for this design
Title: Re: Inside an Air Javelin
Post by: darkcharisma on March 02, 2020, 01:42:20 AM
before the 12 shots, i put a 1/2 inch thick spacer in the back of that hammer spring. its smacking the valve pretty hard. going hpa will make it consistent and up the power some. seems the valve can be modded too if once i have some time to get into it.

Title: Re: Inside an Air Javelin
Post by: screwwork on March 02, 2020, 08:12:29 AM
Looking good for hpa conversation Duy.
What is the barrel OD & ID and length? I may convert my Arrow Prod to that barrel & bolt combo.
Thanks 😊.
Title: Re: Inside an Air Javelin
Post by: Rob M on March 02, 2020, 11:04:43 PM
before the 12 shots, i put a 1/2 inch thick spacer in the back of that hammer spring. its smacking the valve pretty hard. going hpa will make it consistent and up the power some. seems the valve can be modded too if once i have some time to get into it.



is there a an adapter for regged tank to 88gram m16 threads?? or will you make one ? anyway keep us posted on the HPA numbers, should be interesting
Title: Re: Inside an Air Javelin
Post by: Acapulco on March 03, 2020, 01:40:14 AM
At what temp were you shooting??
Title: Re: Inside an Air Javelin
Post by: darkcharisma on March 03, 2020, 02:59:04 AM
Looking good for hpa conversation Duy.
What is the barrel OD & ID and length? I may convert my Arrow Prod to that barrel & bolt combo.
Thanks 😊.

Randy, it's 7mm OD, 6mm ID and 13 inches long barrel. 14 inches long bolts.

Rob, I am sure there is an adapter. But I would think a straight adapter would not clear the OD of the 13ci bottle. I may have to measure it up again, might be able to machine down an ASA adapter. I didn't even measure the thread pitch and size. Is 88 gram and 90 gram co2 using the same M16 threads?

I was shooting when it was 70-72 degrees, Acapulco
Title: Re: Inside an Air Javelin
Post by: Rob M on March 03, 2020, 09:04:11 AM
id have to go measure but the 90 grams as i recall are m16-1.25 .. ill double check in the shop later.  So quite a but smaller than the regular paintball connection thats around .820 -14 threads.
Title: Re: Inside an Air Javelin
Post by: darkcharisma on March 03, 2020, 12:17:27 PM
I measured it. its actually 16x1.5. going to need 3/8 off set for the adapter. i may as well go 3/4 off set to mate a bigger bottle later on down the road.
Title: Re: Inside an Air Javelin
Post by: Arkmaker on March 09, 2020, 12:29:50 PM

Thanks for the inner pics!

Mine shot at 320 and 305 on the fresh tank. On a refilled tank which was underfilled due to the cold, I was at much lower. If memory serves it was around 260. Both times I shot over the chrony it was about  60 degrees. I gave up on the chrony and just had some good fun shooting.
Title: Re: Inside an Air Javelin
Post by: tkerrigan on March 16, 2020, 12:26:33 AM
Any luck on finding offset adapters?  Bakerairguns sells straight ones.  If the offset adapter has to be made, it might be good to incorporate some room for a plenum.  Regards, Tom
Title: Re: Inside an Air Javelin
Post by: darkcharisma on March 16, 2020, 01:33:41 AM
it has to be made. and it has plenum space already. maybe extend it. i have the parts and tools to be made...no time yet
Title: Re: Inside an Air Javelin
Post by: darkcharisma on March 27, 2020, 01:37:28 AM
i guess this is happening. i made some parts to fit a bigger bottle. i should have it ready for testing soon. i hope to get consistent shot to shot velocity. and more shots per fill.

after this i need to start up old projects. oh yah
Title: Re: Inside an Air Javelin
Post by: Rob M on March 27, 2020, 09:05:41 AM
awesome cannot wait to see the numbers.
Title: Re: Inside an Air Javelin
Post by: screwwork on March 27, 2020, 04:28:48 PM
The project is coming along pretty dang good and you're getting quality shop time in too.
Title: Re: Inside an Air Javelin
Post by: darkcharisma on March 28, 2020, 05:49:13 PM
Finally got it done. Dang it, that was a waste of 3 days. The first drop block was no good. Learned the operations and mistakes, Remade this one in a day. She gained about 1 lb I think. And she is at 1700 psi.  :o. I hope I don’t have to play with the hammer weight and spring a whole lot. That requires opening the two halves...uh..

shots later!
Title: Re: Inside an Air Javelin
Post by: darkcharisma on March 28, 2020, 07:03:15 PM
As suspected, hammer can’t open the valve at 1700psi. Shot from 20 MPA to 16 MPA for 17 shots. Should have netted 32-34 shots from 20 MPA to 12MPA or 1700psi set point.

Highest velocity is 239, lowest is 226. So about 13 fps spread. Not bad. Time to tune the hammer or lower the set point.
======

Well I’ll be darn. I went  ahead and shoot it off regulator. Shooting down to 10mpa still net me 240fps. Last shot was 259fps as the psi lowers, my last bolt blew up. Shooting into packed clothing...those bolts don’t last long at all...Here comes the halt...just when it got better...
Title: Re: Inside an Air Javelin
Post by: Rob M on March 28, 2020, 07:56:04 PM
Sounds like u simply need more hammer. Both weight and preload. You're close to valve locked if you lost speed on that pressure
Title: Re: Inside an Air Javelin
Post by: Rob M on March 28, 2020, 07:57:04 PM
Also the gun looks awesome. !! This would be a great kit for that gun once the hammer is sorted
Title: Re: Inside an Air Javelin
Post by: darkcharisma on March 28, 2020, 08:00:04 PM
I just modded the last message. Darn it I ran out of bolts as I shot down to 10mpa.

So it did net me total of 50 shots in in the 13fps spread. From 20 to 10mpa. Speed spiked a bit before I blew the last bolt.

It was accurate though at 25 yards. I hit a quarter sized washer...
Title: Re: Inside an Air Javelin
Post by: Rob M on March 28, 2020, 08:07:18 PM
So the bolt failed on impact  or leaving the straw barrel ? I guess they're built to the limitation of co2
Title: Re: Inside an Air Javelin
Post by: darkcharisma on March 28, 2020, 08:22:02 PM
Some went through the thin archery target and shattered shaft. This last shaft I tried blew the target head off leaving only the shaft. I can see the epoxy stuff but I have no replacements. I may need to buy a bunch of shafts in the id/od required and make my own.
Title: Re: Inside an Air Javelin
Post by: Rob M on March 28, 2020, 08:25:32 PM
Some went through the thin archery target and shattered shaft. This last shaft I tried blew the target head off leaving only the shaft. I can see the epoxy stuff but I have no replacements. I may need to buy a bunch of shafts in the id/od required and make my own.

good call.. some aluminum shafts with threaded heads
Title: Re: Inside an Air Javelin
Post by: tkerrigan on March 28, 2020, 08:53:51 PM
At regulated 850-1100psi or so on air it should do better than CO2.  Thinner gas, moves more quickly.  Regards, Tom
Title: Re: Inside an Air Javelin
Post by: tkerrigan on April 03, 2020, 12:47:34 AM
Back on the 250fps or so arrow speed, you are pushing hard and seating the arrow over the o-ring at the base of the barrel? I imagine you are but just checking.  Haven't heard anybody mention it.  Regards, Tom
Title: Re: Inside an Air Javelin
Post by: darkcharisma on April 03, 2020, 02:30:55 AM
Yes i tried both ways. Seating it hard by the orings and free floating without the oring. Same fps.

This not worthy, i need to have more arrows...
Title: Re: Inside an Air Javelin
Post by: darkcharisma on April 15, 2020, 01:00:17 AM
i managed to salvaged one bolt. and i was able to hit 325fps with the oem bolt at 6mpa or 870psi. its 220fps above that pressure.  also found out regular bolts will work just fine, just a bit heavier.


Title: Re: Inside an Air Javelin
Post by: Rob M on April 15, 2020, 08:41:05 AM
thats a really good gain ! awesome
Title: Re: Inside an Air Javelin
Post by: grand-galop on July 06, 2020, 12:36:41 AM
Any update on your setup ??? ::)
Title: Re: Inside an Air Javelin
Post by: darkcharisma on July 06, 2020, 01:18:07 AM
Yes I bought a bunch of aluminum and carbon bolts. I haven't had the chance to touch it again due to other projects. I didn't even bought stronger springs or make the hammer heavier. i'll get around to it but it's going to be a while.
Title: Re: Inside an Air Javelin
Post by: grand-galop on July 11, 2020, 09:53:42 AM
Thanks for the precision .. That is interesting to see developments to this platform..
Title: Re: Inside an Air Javelin
Post by: Kidpellet on October 29, 2020, 04:58:30 PM
I made an adapter to use the regulated bottle off one of my Gauntlets. So far so good. Also drilled and tapped an old 90 gram co2 for a fill port so it can be refilled
Title: Re: Inside an Air Javelin
Post by: Kidpellet on October 29, 2020, 05:06:37 PM
Been working ok. Posted some videos to my Air Javelin FB group
Title: Re: Inside an Air Javelin
Post by: Rob M on October 29, 2020, 05:39:23 PM
looks good , you running the stock 1100 pisi reg for the gauntlet tank.
Title: Re: Inside an Air Javelin
Post by: Kidpellet on October 29, 2020, 08:57:24 PM
looks good , you running the stock 1100 pisi reg for the gauntlet tank.

Yep, I checked it with a reg tester and it was dead on 1100.
Title: Re: Inside an Air Javelin
Post by: Rob M on October 29, 2020, 09:57:45 PM
will the stock bolts handle the pressure  and if so whats the speed ? my guess is 350 ish
Title: Re: Inside an Air Javelin
Post by: Kidpellet on October 29, 2020, 11:59:00 PM
Mines actually not any faster at 1100 psi. It needs a little more hammer spring although there is a hammer spring adjusting screw under the sliding stock. It works backwards though. Counterclockwise increases preload and clockwise decreases it. It's also got a pretty small planum space. Increasing that would probably do more than upping the pressure. Also it's a cast aluminum valve body and not the best for higher psi
Title: Re: Inside an Air Javelin
Post by: grand-galop on November 09, 2020, 03:28:29 PM
I finally got mine.. 8)
Before receiving it, i already modded a 90g tank with a one way fill nipple..

Initial testing was like others have mentionned on here..

My surprise was when i change the target tip from 50 grain to 100 grain, the fps was more consistant and develop 33 fpe..

I have put graphene powder in the hammer slot and lower the hammer spring to get the 260fps average with the 100g target tip.
Title: Re: Inside an Air Javelin
Post by: Carlito29 on June 01, 2021, 04:44:27 PM
Pretty amazing what can be done…….  I will be watching this to see what transpires when the ball starts rolling again. I recently purchased AJ also and decided see if by chance someone here had Thayer it to another level. Thanks
Title: Re: Inside an Air Javelin
Post by: Rat Sniper (AKA: PaulT58) on April 22, 2022, 02:09:59 PM
Dragging up an old thread looking for some info...  I just picked up the Javelin Pro and was wondering if anyone has opened it up?  Mostly interested in if there is anything that can be done to the trigger it lighten the pull weight any?  I don't mind the long pull, but that last bit at 29 foot pounds is a bit much!  Thanks...
Title: Re: Inside an Air Javelin
Post by: darkcharisma on April 23, 2022, 01:05:37 AM
I bet you its the same frame and parts inside. go ahead and open it up. you may be able to file some surfaces.
Title: Re: Inside an Air Javelin
Post by: Rat Sniper (AKA: PaulT58) on April 23, 2022, 08:27:25 AM
I bet you its the same frame and parts inside. go ahead and open it up. you may be able to file some surfaces.

Did you do any trigger work on your Javelin to lighten or smooth it some?  If so, any suggestions?
Title: Re: Inside an Air Javelin
Post by: darkcharisma on April 23, 2022, 12:56:48 PM
No i have not. its a long pivot design. not alot can be improved upon. unless you file it shorter and smoother.
Title: Re: Inside an Air Javelin
Post by: Rat Sniper (AKA: PaulT58) on April 23, 2022, 12:59:35 PM
No i have not. its a long pivot design. not alot can be improved upon. unless you file it shorter and smoother.

Thank you!  I'll have to explore a bit and see what, if anything, can be done to it.
Title: Re: Inside an Air Javelin
Post by: Rat Sniper (AKA: PaulT58) on April 24, 2022, 01:57:47 PM
For anyone interested, I just posted some pics of the innards of the Air Javelin Pro in my thread.  The pictures and a write-up on what I did to the trigger starts on Reply #16.

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=198561.new#new (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=198561.new#new)