GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Support Equipment For PCP/HPA/CO2 => Topic started by: Dairyboy on September 26, 2016, 05:22:04 PM
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First off I got one ordered and was shipped next day I believe and shipping took less than a week to get here (Washington state) and it was undamaged. I was confused on the air input connector but found out it's a Hi Flow one. Husky sells a kit at Home Depot. Got it setup and has been working great! Has only been working 5.5-6 hrs how I have it setup and I got my Tiger shark tank (71cuft) filled from 0-1900psi so far. So far I'm very happy with it! Seems very well built. It's very quiet as well. These guys are also top notch when it comes to customer service. I think they got a real game changer here! Will continue to add when it gets run more with some pics and possibly a video!
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Thank you for sharing. I've been looking hard at one of these.
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Thx for the mini review.
Keep us posted on the fill times and what the compressor comes with. ;)
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Did you already mention what compressor you're using to feed it? PSI going into the Altaros? And how long has it taken to go from 0-1900 on your tigershark? Nevermind on the time thus far. You've already answered that.
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With how I have my compressor and the booster set up in just under 2 hrs it put in 700 psi. I have a husky Oiless compressor that’s about 10 yrs old. 20 gallon tank 1.9hp motor 4.3 gallon per min at 90 psi and I have it set regulated at 90psi. Could go higher but no need to for my use. You need to play with the input pressure screw to get the right amount of air in there so that my drive compressor runs for about 5 min and shuts off for 2 or so. The thing is really quiet i wish my compressor wasn’t so dang loud you would barely be able to hear it in another room if the drive compressor is off. Close the lid then it’s very very quiet. It’s so simple yet well built I’m very satisfied with it so far. Only been running it for 2-3 hrs at a time but not cause the Altaros but so my compressor don’t die on me. Should get it all the way filled by tomorrow.
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With how I have my compressor and the booster set up in just under 2 hrs it put in 700 psi. I have a husky Oiless compressor that’s about 10 yrs old. 20 gallon tank 1.9hp motor 4.3 gallon per min at 90 psi and I have it set regulated at 90psi. Could go higher but no need to for my use. You need to play with the input pressure screw to get the right amount of air in there so that my drive compressor runs for about 5 min and shuts off for 2 or so. The thing is really quiet i wish my compressor wasn’t so dang loud you would barely be able to hear it in another room if the drive compressor is off. Close the lid then it’s very very quiet. It’s so simple yet well built I’m very satisfied with it so far. Only been running it for 2-3 hrs at a time but not cause the Altaros but so my compressor don’t die on me. Should get it all the way filled by tomorrow.
WOW - that's a LOT of run time for the primary compressor, especially a 20gal one. 700 psi in 2 hrs sounds right about the Shoebox F10 rate
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Yeah it is they say you want to try to get it to a 60/40 run time/off time. Keep in mind though it's not very efficient I probably need to upgrade to a new one
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That's what I was afraid of, my feeding compressor would run a whole lot. I wonder how much it would change if I output 125-150psi instead. I wonder if the time frame would be linear. Either way, my LOUD compressor would be running a lot in my garage. But then again, if I only had to fill a guppy tank...it wouldn't be so bad.
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With how I have my compressor and the booster set up in just under 2 hrs it put in 700 psi. I have a husky Oiless compressor that’s about 10 yrs old. 20 gallon tank 1.9hp motor 4.3 gallon per min at 90 psi and I have it set regulated at 90psi. Could go higher but no need to for my use. You need to play with the input pressure screw to get the right amount of air in there so that my drive compressor runs for about 5 min and shuts off for 2 or so. The thing is really quiet i wish my compressor wasn’t so dang loud you would barely be able to hear it in another room if the drive compressor is off. Close the lid then it’s very very quiet. It’s so simple yet well built I’m very satisfied with it so far. Only been running it for 2-3 hrs at a time but not cause the Altaros but so my compressor don’t die on me. Should get it all the way filled by tomorrow.
WOW - that's a LOT of run time for the primary compressor, especially a 20gal one. 700 psi in 2 hrs sounds right about the Shoebox F10 rate
BTB, he is only running the primary compressor at 90PSI, so I would expect it to cycle on and off a lot more frequently. You say that 700 PSI in 2 hrs sounds about right for the Shoebox F10, I'm assuming that is from 0 fill, and a similar size compressor, cycling at 90PSI.
One thing to remember the higher the feed supply pressure and volume the quicker the fill times.
thanks,
Ken
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Yeah it is they say you want to try to get it to a 60/40 run time/off time. Keep in mind though it's not very efficient I probably need to upgrade to a new one
I hope that's only for "smaller" size compressors. I just bought a used 60 gallon. My 20gal died about a month ago, I've been halfway attempting to repair it and also watching Craigslist for a deal. I called about a newly listed one this AM, and the guy said he didn't really want to sell it but his daughter was in St Joseph's Hospital in Tampa, in need of a heart transplant. He was selling it for gas money to get back and forth from his home in Lakeland. I said, don't worry about it, it's sold. I'll be there as soon as I get through with my route this afternoon. Sometimes God comes along and pushes you off of the fence...
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BTB, he is only running the primary compressor at 90PSI, so I would expect it to cycle on and off a lot more frequently. You say that 700 PSI in 2 hrs sounds about right for the Shoebox F10, I'm assuming that is from 0 fill, and a similar size compressor, cycling at 90PSI.
One thing to remember the higher the feed supply pressure and volume the quicker the fill times.
thanks,
Ken
How so? I would think that if he were to increase his output (both pressure and volume) then his compressor would stay on even longer, no?
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Your 60 gallon should cycle far less times than would my 33 gallon and Dairyboy's 20 gal. My buddy had an 80 gal and had a plasma cutter that ran at a constant 150 psi and it didn't cycle nearly as much as I would have imagined. And not just 150 psi at a low cfm, but a HIGH cfm. I'd guess the cfm needed to run the Altaros is pretty low and mostly the higher pressure is needed. So 60 gallon would be the way to go for a primary.
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BTB, he is only running the primary compressor at 90PSI, so I would expect it to cycle on and off a lot more frequently. You say that 700 PSI in 2 hrs sounds about right for the Shoebox F10, I'm assuming that is from 0 fill, and a similar size compressor, cycling at 90PSI.
One thing to remember the higher the feed supply pressure and volume the quicker the fill times.
thanks,
Ken
How so? I would think that if he were to increase his output (both pressure and volume) then his compressor would stay on even longer, no?
I was talking generalities not just DB's small compressor. Yes, if he increased the output pressure it would have to run longer, but would hopefully in turn cycle on and off less frequently. I don't quite understand why Altoros is suggesting having the compressor run at a 60/40 cycle? Unless it has something to do with maybe heating of the air in the compressor before it goes to the booster? Maybe condensation?
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The 700 psi is just under 2 hrs is less fill than I expected. But then again, it was on an empty tank, which contrary belief, takes a while to show pressure. Takes a LOT of air to fill the empty tank before any pressure starts to show. That, and 90 psi input is a bit low for a booster pump such as this. So higher input should help a lot!
My first generation S. Box does 250 psi in a 88cf suba bottle. This is at 3600 to 4000. After that, it fills faster. Go figure!
I am VERY!!! interested in this new booster pump, but is is going to have to outperform what I have here now.
It has been pointed out, that calling it a compressor is wrong here on the forum, as it requires an additional compressor to supply the low side air. Well, this is correct, yet the persons pointing this out referred to the Shoe Box as a Compressor. Well, it also requires low side input pressure from a separate compressor. Hello!!! both are technically boosters. The real advantage is the Altros is a true booster pump in the way it is operated, as it requires NO power source from an electric drive or gas drive motor. The same input compressor both supplies firstage air, and drives the pump.
A real win-win if it can out pace the Shoe Box, at a much lower cost.
My hope is it will be more reliable than the Shoe Box. They are Much Better Now, with the silicone oil feed than the old days of dabbing on grease on the piston rods every two hours. But the altrose dose not require any of this. ;)
Knife
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I was talking generalities not just DB's small compressor. Yes, if he increased the output pressure it would have to run longer, but would hopefully in turn cycle on and off less frequently. I don't quite understand why Altoros is suggesting having the compressor run at a 60/40 cycle? Unless it has something to do with maybe heating of the air in the compressor before it goes to the booster? Maybe condensation?
His "small" compressor? In my book a 20gal portable is on the large side. Heck the one I have for my shoebox is 3 gals.
Only way I see less cycling is to increase the storage volume.
I think the Altaros will use MUCH more input air then the SB as it uses the air as a "power source" too.
I see guys thinking they are going to "replace" their shoebox with this and use the same primary compressor. Probably not going to work well.
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As far as the input connector on the back of the Altaros goes, does it have threading that will accept an American standard 1/8" or 3/8" fitting? I have a lot of fittings here ands would not want to have to drive 45 miles one way just to pick up a kit from Home Depot. LOL
My Primary comp. is 5 hp. 90 gal, 145 psi at 125 cfm. Don't see a problem there. Brand if it matters is Ingerson Rand. But is is going to have to be able to out pace the SB for me to go for one. So far, I haven't seen a fill time at the recommended max of ??? psi. I have seen 140-145 and 150 recommended by the manufacturer. But I am too mathematically illiterate to figure out their charts in liter's. All I have found so far is liters of water. Not liquid for the formula. LOL. And a 88 cf scba will NOT hold 88 liters of liquid. Only Air at pressure. So their charts are for my feeble mind useless. Grrrrrr!!!
Knife
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1900-2400psi at 70 mins...I'm impressed with it but that's just me.
The threads on the input are a BSPP 1/4 Female thread. If you can find one that can go to a normal connector let me know ;D
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They emailed me yesterday something about getting in new input nipples for the US.
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...The real advantage is the Altros is a true booster pump in the way it is operated, as it requires NO power source from an electric drive or gas drive motor. The same input compressor both supplies firstage air, and drives the pump.
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From looking at the pics on the website, and ready DairyBoy's posts, there is a power source for the Altaros Booster. You have to specify which type of power adapter you want (US, etc) when ordering. There is a picture on their site of the back of the box with a power cord coming out.
(http://www.altaros.cz/263-thickbox_default/altaros-compressor-booster-unit.jpg)
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Please watch the vid. The power source does NOT run the compressor. It has no electric motor. Unless I completely misunderstood the description on their site, the power is for the auto psi shutoff. Your "Primary" air source runs the Altros.
Sure hope they can so something with the input nipple. I would hate to get one in and not be able to get the proper inlet to run it!
Knife
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1900-2400psi at 70 mins...I'm impressed with it but that's just me.
The threads on the input are a BSPP 1/4 Female thread. If you can find one that can go to a normal connector let me know ;D
That is actually slower than the first generation chain drive SB. They do fill it as faster, and cooler. Try higher input air.
On a side note, there is an adjustment in the center of the long line in the Altaros box. Check it, as it will adjust the nof air getting to the unit. Even though you have the shop compressor giving 90 psi, the unit may not be seeing this high of a psi.
Knife
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Please watch the vid. The power source does NOT run the compressor. It has no electric motor. Primary air source runs the Altros.
Sure hope they can so something with the input nipple. I would hate to get one in and not be able to get the proper inlet to run it!
Knife
Knife,
I was wondering how the small power adapter was supposed to power the Altaros while the Shoebox has a huge motor. Is the wall wart used to run a flow solenoid and pressure sensor or something?
Thanks,
Taso
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Exactly! ;) It has an adjustable probe, if you will, in the end of the second, or high side cylinder head. This is signaled to the switching device, which uses the 12 volt current to actuate the air valving to stop the compressor. Additionally, as bottle pressure
can decrease after a fill, the Altaros switch system can read this, and re-start the compressor until full pressure is achieved. It can do this as many times as necessary.
Altaros calls it the Controller.
Or at least, that is what I got from the PDF on their site. ;D
Sure will be glad when our own lovable /eccentric Uncle Hoot ( over on the TAG) gets back from his trip. Unk will have it well figured out in nothing flat. Sure is nice having a Genius/Eccentric Uncle to get the facts from! 8)
I fill at 3600 to 4800 almost every day. Sure is going to be nice to not have to stop after two hours, re-lube, check temp, and re-start. PITA as have better things to do than baby sit a shoe Box. But I am very grateful to have it. After the switch to the felt delivery of silicone oil. (100) wt., I no longer have to rebuild it every month or so. And often more often than that. The switch to hardened and polished pistons, (my contribution to the shoe box, which Mr. Kay incorporated, and forgot instantly where he learned this trick), The "0" rings last a huge amount of time longer! 8).
He's using M2 for the pistons now days. (A very good edge holding Knife Steel, go figure!) LOL!!! He was using precision ground pistons, until I told him of my experiment with fully polished pistons. He didn't' believe it would work, until he finally tried it himself. ;), Which brings me to one other + I'm seeing for the Altaos. In the SB, the pistons are open to the enviroment. Not so much of a problem with the newer hardened pistons, but even with covering the SB in my shop, grit got to the pistons,, Even with cleaning them before each use, they still got scared and killed "0" rings. The Altaros not only has its pistons fully enclosed within the unit, the unit itself is inclosed in its case. Very convenient in a shop that produces dust!
But I's sure no one else has a dusty work shop, or garage. Right? LOL!!!
Knife
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Again even if it's slower it's pretty darn cheap and it's only cause I'm not feeding it enough air. I'm only running it at 90 for this initial big fill. Once i get to 3600ish I'll bump it up some to see how it does.
Air is the only thing powering the compressor the electrical is for the shut off
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Nothing wrong with taking it easy at first! ;) Just hopeing the new toy is faster than the sb orginal. I am sitting here with crossed fingers pulling for it!
I enjoy shooting. Not waiting. My .257 eats air like a supercharger, from the wrong end. LOL 8)
wishing you Great Success with It!
Knife
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Thanks for the updates .. ! You can imagine with 140 to 150 psi it might pump faster with more volume per pump.
Does the 90psi on the input hinder when the Altaros is hitting the 4000psi mark? Does it struggle?
Thx For Your Time
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Most of the air used drives the large piston in the middle and is exhausted at the end of every stroke.... Since boosters use air to drive them, they have a huge appetite for it.... I think a large compressor will be necessary to get shorter fill times....
A 20 gal compressor is a decent size.... I only use a 6 gal to run my Freedom 8, and it spends much more time off than running....
Bob
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Just sent these guys an email to purchase. I think it's a great price for what you are getting . If you buy a big 60 min 4500 scba tank would take forever to fill but you also have alot of air on hand I'm thinking and just refill at night with a quiet California Compressor. Only 60 decibals when running
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Their website does say that a higher pressure feed will fill bottles faster, they have specs on the performance tab:
http://www.altaros.cz/en/other-accessories/48-altaros-compressor-booster-unit#demoTab4 (http://www.altaros.cz/en/other-accessories/48-altaros-compressor-booster-unit#demoTab4)
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Knifemaker what is the TAG? I'm assuming another AG. forum? Haven't. Made any knives in a few years, mostly ATS34.
I think everyone is having trouble converting. L (EU) volume to American volume of compressed air. I am sure there are formula's to convert 7l of 4500psi air to cf.
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Knifemaker what is the TAG? I'm assuming another AG. forum? Haven't. Made any knives in a few years, mostly ATS34.
I think everyone is having trouble converting. L (EU) volume to American volume of compressed air. I am sure there are formula's to convert 7l of 4500psi air to cf.
http://talonairgun.com/forum/ (http://talonairgun.com/forum/)
make sure you have your big boy boots on first, no crying Mommy over there......
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Knifemaker what is the TAG? I'm assuming another AG. forum? Haven't. Made any knives in a few years, mostly ATS34.
I think everyone is having trouble converting. L (EU) volume to American volume of compressed air. I am sure there are formula's to convert 7l of 4500psi air to cf.
Basically at 4500psi a 60min tank is 9 litres(87cf - 550cu in), a 45 min tank is 6.8 litres (66cf - 412cuin)
https://www.scottsafety.com/en/us/DocumentandMedia1/Bro_Cylinders_HS_7012_0312.pdf (https://www.scottsafety.com/en/us/DocumentandMedia1/Bro_Cylinders_HS_7012_0312.pdf)
http://worthingtonindustries.com/getattachment/Products/Industrial-Products/Fire-and-Rescue/SCBA/Composite-SCBA-Cylinders.pdf (http://worthingtonindustries.com/getattachment/Products/Industrial-Products/Fire-and-Rescue/SCBA/Composite-SCBA-Cylinders.pdf)
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If the Alteros is using the first stage air source... not only as a first stage, but to ALSO DRIVE THE MACHINE... a small airless compressor is NOT going to cut the mustard. The more a compressor runs, the more moisture it produces. Trying to drive the Alteros with a small airless unit will have it running WAY TOO MUCH, and it will literally be blowing water out.
A LARGE, high capacity compressor... like a 2-stage pump with a 60-80 gallon tank is what would be ideal for the Alteros... as it's going to be a serious air hog.
Just like the Shoebox, you do NOT need to be afraid of conventional compressors. Alteros actually recommends them. You do NOT need an oilless unit. GO BIG for best, non moisture laden results.
Those of you who have had 120V 20 gallon or smaller compressors... when you've used blow guns, etc a lot, and ran the pump almost continuously... THAT is when they literally start spewing water out the nozzle. They get hot, and all bets are off. Larger compressors with slower revving, higher capacity pumps are FAR better with 'air hog' type devices.
Good Luck!
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Got an email from the owner of Altaros and he recommended 2 HP motor and run it at 115psi. Killed it lastnite at 3500psi so today when I'm home at night will set to 115 and see how she goes!
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Just sent these guys an email to purchase. I think it's a great price for what you are getting . If you buy a big 60 min 4500 scba tank would take forever to fill but you also have alot of air on hand I'm thinking and just refill at night with a quiet California Compressor. Only 60 decibals when running
This was my original intention but it took a very short amount of time to realize that this will kill our quiet compressors with a darn near continuous duty cycle. Ever feel how HOT they get with only a single cycle? Don't use this compressor with the Alteros unless you're only planning on pumping up the cylinder on your airgun. Even then I wouldn't use it on anything other than my Prod. Our California compressors aren't cheap to replace.
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It's nice and neat, booster looking at the pictures on tag, basically booster just up the incoming pressure by some ratio. The higher the input the faster the output will be. My home made booster can make 450bar on 10bar drive pressure. Input needs to be higher than 30bar to get any kind of descent fill time.
Altaros has gone and improved the conventional booster with low pressure first stage, I recon it may take a while to fill but it looks to be built to last.
Looking forward seeing how it does, for there isn't much middle priced hpa system out there.
Marko
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Knifemaker what is the TAG? I'm assuming another AG. forum? Haven't. Made any knives in a few years, mostly ATS34.
I think everyone is having trouble converting. L (EU) volume to American volume of compressed air. I am sure there are formula's to convert 7l of 4500psi air to cf.
The Tag is the Talon Airgun Forum. Been around for a LOT of years, and has a HUGE amount of airgun information on it. They have been into big bores, and bull pups years before any other forum. They cover all types of ag's. Not just airforce types. It's a very well trusted forum, and very open to new ideas.
But it's not for "Girlie Men", As Arnie would put it. It is not moderated to the point of being afraid to express opinions. Good or Bad! And can get heated at times. Just like real life. No mommy to step in if you paint your self into a corner! LOL!!!
Knife
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Knifemaker what is the TAG? I'm assuming another AG. forum? Haven't. Made any knives in a few years, mostly ATS34.
I think everyone is having trouble converting. L (EU) volume to American volume of compressed air. I am sure there are formula's to convert 7l of 4500psi air to cf.
Basically at 4500psi a 60min tank is 9 litres(87cf - 550cu in), a 45 min tank is 6.8 litres (66cf - 412cuin)
https://www.scottsafety.com/en/us/DocumentandMedia1/Bro_Cylinders_HS_7012_0312.pdf (https://www.scottsafety.com/en/us/DocumentandMedia1/Bro_Cylinders_HS_7012_0312.pdf)
http://worthingtonindustries.com/getattachment/Products/Industrial-Products/Fire-and-Rescue/SCBA/Composite-SCBA-Cylinders.pdf (http://worthingtonindustries.com/getattachment/Products/Industrial-Products/Fire-and-Rescue/SCBA/Composite-SCBA-Cylinders.pdf)
Thanks BTB! This is Exactly the info I was looking for.
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Mike said, Quote, "
Just like the Shoebox, you do NOT need to be afraid of conventional compressors. Alteros actually recommends them. You do NOT need an oilless unit. GO BIG for best, non moisture laden results."
Not correct Sir. ,, Tom Kay, Maker of the Shoe Box, expressly forbids standard compressors with the Shoe Box.) It is to be used with "Oil Less Compressors Only.
Yes, you can get away with a high quality standard compressor. I've been doing it for years. It's an Ingersoll Rand. But that is my choice. Shoe Box's Tom Kay, says NOT SAFE to do so.
This is where the Altaros is totally different. They openly recommend standard compressors with their units! Woo0Hoo!!!
Knife
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Mike said, Quote, "
Just like the Shoebox, you do NOT need to be afraid of conventional compressors. Alteros actually recommends them. You do NOT need an oilless unit. GO BIG for best, non moisture laden results."
Not correct Sir. ,, Tom Kay, Maker of the Shoe Box, expressly forbids standard compressors with the Shoe Box.) It is to be used with "Oil Less Compressors Only.
Yes, you can get away with a high quality standard compressor. I've been doing it for years. It's an Ingersoll Rand. But that is my choice. Shoe Box's Tom Kay, says NOT SAFE to do so.
This is where the Altaros is totally different. They openly recommend standard compressors with their units! Woo0Hoo!!!
Knife
So you chastise me for saying a standard compressor is FINE to use for the first stage... when using a Shoebox... even though YOU do the same thing?
Then, you're happy that Alteros says they are fine to use as a first stage.
There is no difference in using a standard compressor for the first stage with either pump.
The Shoebox manufacturer makes the oiless recommendation based solely on lawyer CYA... just in case the 0.00000001% chance that something would happen... that was probably not due to using a standard compressor, that somehow got blamed on it, happened to get thrown in his face via a lawsuit.
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Your guessing here mike to make an excuse. It is well known in the industry that oil and high pressure do not mix!
Shoe Box has NOT been sued. Where do you get this. Much post it as fi it has happened.
I see a Drag Stang in your avatar. You should be very aware of what oxygen can do under pressure. You do have experience with Nitrous I see!
I ran the Mr. Five Point OH Dare Car for years. I am very familar with it. and how oxygen can react with petrolium products.
Although Compressed Air is not pure Oxygen, (Neither is Nitrous), by its very nature, compressed air has a much higher content of Oxy to aid combustion in a given space. It's how combustion engines work..
And Yes, I do it. But I would never be so foolish as to suggest others do it. Not only do I not want to be responsible for a possible injury or death, I also do not want to be in any way liable by suggesting it. Your milage and conscience may differ.
Please remember, that not all standard compressors are created equal. Nor are they all in new, top performing condition. An older, or compressor of lesser quality can, and often do put a good bit of Oil vapor into the output air supply. And exactly why such high quality water/oil separators are used in the auto paint industry, where even a tiny bit of oil vapor in the mix can ruin a paint job.
Think about what you are saying! Once you do, I think you will realise what a risk it could be for a less informed person.
I mean the reviewer didn't even know how to open a standard bottle valve. Scary stuff!!!
Knife
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I mean the reviewer didn't even know how to open a standard bottle valve. Scary stuff!!!
Knife
Lol I do know how to open the valve and did have it open when I started filling before asking the question. My question wasn't how to open it but to make sure it was supposed to be open or if it was a type of one way valve. I just wanted to be safe and ask cause I am a complete noob when it comes to hpa bottles and wanted to confirm my thoughts as messing with hpa is a scary thing if something goes wrong. But mechanically I'm very inclined growing up on the dairy as we do EVERYTHING ourselves unless its a major problem and we don't have time to do it. But I do agree as this is my first time dealing with this stuff instead of standard air pressure things around the farm and to me I'd rather be safe than sorry. That's why I do what is a spin off of measure twice cut once, ask twice do once so I don't mess up. Others who assume they know or just read things on here and never ask questions or contribute can be very dangerous for them!!! I'm just one not afraid to ask those questions even if there dumb and obvious just best to play on the safe side IMO as I'm still learning.
Sorry for the off topic and no hard feelings just explaining that better but anyways lol getting the last bit filled up. Will bump up the reg to 115 psi and see how quick she goes!
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Amen, when it comes to safety. The only dumb questions are the un-asked ones. There's an old saying about experience and knowledge. I'd rather get my knowledge from someone else's experience, when it comes to playing with 4500psi air, in :45 or :60 containers...
I'm 62 years old and look the part, but when the guy handed me the tank the first time I had it filled he reminded me, "that's a 4500psi bomb, don't forget it!"
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Dairyboy thx for the continued updates...
I was thinking the same thing about my 60 min 4500 used scba tank I ordered. Granted it does have a current hydrostatic test but if you think about it by chance if that thing were to go off everything in the general vicinity would be gone.
Super unlikely but totally something that stays on my mind. I almost want to put that bad boy in a shed outside my actual house lol. But then since I also have a mig welder with compressed gas I'm going to have 2 bombs now lol.
I was Also reading on the Altaros compressor you can adjust how much air you are feeding it through a adjustment screw on the Altaros if it's turning on your compressor too many times. Granted it will affect the speed of your fill but if its at night let Altaros run in slow mode ... Per the spec sheet accepts 70 psi at the lowest.
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Very good points from the both of you, Dairy, and Custom!
Safety is always first and foremost when playing with this High Pressure. As you Guys say, A bomb if not treated properly!
I have very high hopes for the Altrose. Seriously looking at one, as I hate rebuilds over and over. But in fairness, the Shoe Box is doing a "LOT" better using the silicone oil rather than the lithium grease.
Good Luck Guys!!! ;) 8)
Knife
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Bumping the reg pressure to 115psi and was filling about 100psi every 10 min so 10psi per min and it's filled! Shut off just a hair over 4500psi! I'm so happy no more hand pumping!!!!!
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Woo-Hoo!!! Now we're talking!!! ;)
I'm Stoked! Very!!! And Congrats! 8)
Knife
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Well it definitely seems to show promise unfortunately the two times through I've read their site
I haven't quite figured out the fill time... does anyone know if you use a large(20gal+)
compressor set at 110psi if it fills faster than the shoebox MAX?
Any thoughts on why it may or may not be better than the shoebox?
I know for me personally cost isn't an issue since I bought my shoebox used and already have it.
And any info on its dryer system would be appreciated!
Does it have a high pressure filter built in? or just low pressure input?
That could be one big plus over the shoebox...?
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Hopefully I was good this year, I might ask Santa Clause for 1 ;D :o ;D
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Just finished ordering mine. For the price it seems like a great alternative and the rebuild looks easy.
I will be doing dessicant filters and water separator before the Altaros with direct connection to my 20 gallon 3 hp compressor max 120 psi ... Will set it to fill maybe at 90 psi...
It's a older compressor so if it dies I will get a new one with 175 max psi... probably better suited for the altaros
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That's great to hear Chris! Just so you know the Altaros does have a Water separator and dessicant filter before it hits the pistons. It's the first thing it goes through and is what the input connector is connected to.
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Yes, my '01 7.3 powerstroke is in the shop. All I've heard so far is that they were unable to start it Sat with silicon spray in the intake, and they are doing a compression test this week. I may have killed it by trying to crank it with starting fluid is what my mechanic told me when I hauled it to the shop last week. :(
Otherwise, I would be all over this Altaros booster compressor!
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Currently only looking to fill a guppy, but this would be good to leave at the shop...
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Oh yeah glow plugs and starting fluid is a no no :( sorry to hear about that hopefully all is well. Side note my dad had a 99 7.3 and we got in a bad accident and rolled 3 times. Truck was trashed but motor still worked great and is in my uncle's 99 now still chugging along! I now have a 06 6.0 and he has a 10 6.4. Starting fluid is like magic on older diesels though at least on all our tractors.
For the price of this compressor guys I'm very satisfied with how it works. I didn't buy it hoping for the quickest fills but mainly as a cheaper alternative to get an hpa tank filled vs a 2 hr round trip for a fill. Ran for roughly 9 hrs and had absolutely no issues with it and I NEVER had to touch or lube anything. Plug it in and go! I wish I can give you more but how often or should I say my lack of shooting this fill should last me at least a month or 2 so I won't be really putting it through the ringer so to speak. For a guppy I'm sure it will fill rather quickly as it's roughly 1/4th a tiger shark tank.
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Thx Dillon I did notice it had a water separator and filter. I just have access to equipment like regulators and such where I can make the air even more dry...
Get this I told the wife that my compressor piston is going bad I might need to get a new one... LOL! Looking at the husky 30 gallon 175 psi..
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Remember the Altaros has a maximum feed supply pressure of 150psi.
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Yes sir... regulate it down to just 120...
The rest will be standby pressure ....
I will be adding the 20 gallon to piggy back the 30 gallon...
Total should be 50 gallon at 120 psi... to feed the beast
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Thx Dillon I did notice it had a water separator and filter. I just have access to equipment like regulators and such where I can make the air even more dry...
Get this I told the wife that my compressor piston is going bad I might need to get a new one... LOL! Looking at the husky 30 gallon 175 psi..
Great minds think alike! Just told my dear wife the same thing yesterday with the Altaros in mind........... ;) Looking forward to your thoughts when you get yours up & running.
Ed
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Remember the Altaros has a maximum feed supply pressure of 150psi.
Feed pressure or control pressure? Is it not a booster where a low pressure supply ie a depleted bottle then boost that to desired high pressure?
If not then it is hardly an improvement over a Shoebox.
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Remember the Altaros has a maximum feed supply pressure of 150psi.
Feed pressure or control pressure? Is it not a booster where a low pressure supply ie a depleted bottle then boost that to desired high pressure?
If not then it is hardly an improvement over a Shoebox.
You can only feed it 70-150psi. This is NOT a typical booster where you boost 3000psi to 4500psi but can be used as a Shoebox. You hook it up to an air compressor and it fills your tanks. I don't think it's ever been said it's an improvement to the fill speed of a Shoebox but can be very comparable if not better depending on how much air you feed it. Basically half the price, very very little maintenance and already has a water separator and dessicant filter is a huge improvement IMO. Ran for 8-9hrs all together and never had to touch it.
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------I don't think it's ever been said it's an improvement to the fill speed of a Shoebox but can be very comparable if not better depending on how much air you feed it.------
Well, actually, it has been said both by Altaros on their site, and on the vids. It is supposed to be quite a bit faster than the "comparable or commonly used small compressor out there. Namely the shoe Box. and is exactly why I am interested in it.
Unfortunately, no reviewer has supplied it with the full inlet pressure so far, to see just what it can, and will do!
Sure Uncle Hoot, (H.E. Potter) returns soon. I know he'll wring it out for all its' worth.
My shoe box use to be a pure nightmare on maintenance, but since changing it over to slow feed of silicone st 1000 oil, is it has seemed to have lost its appetite for "O" Rings. It went thru them like water before. Hated having to use it. Seemed I spent more time rebuilding it, than it spent pumping. And I am not by a long shot the only one who had such troubles.
The addition of hardened, (and then highly polished) rods, (Pistons), along with the felt feed silicone oil system, It has pumped for over a year without a rebuild.
I know that doesn't tell you much with out knowing how much I use it. Well, during good weather, which there is a "LOT" in central Texas, I shoot darned every day. This is with a .257 bullet shooter.
I fill to 4700 psi, and shoot down to 3600psi. So it gets filled 6=7 days a week.
That is a whole lot of fills without a rebuild! But I constantly have to stop shooting for the day, to stop and fill. FOR HOURS!!!
On paper at least, the Altaros is faster. A LOT faster. But not at the anemic fill pressures being used by the tester here on this form so far. It really tells us nothing as to what it can do. All it tells us, is that it pumps. How much, how fast, or what the maintenance is at higher input pressures, and bottle pressures. Nothing much at all.
Nothing wrong with the posters review. He's obviously new to high pressure pumping. And that's good, and I'm happy for him, and his new road. It's a lot of trial error, and hopefully a lot fun for him. . . But it tell the ones here that are old hat at it, virtually nothing so far.
We Need answers on this new system!
Knife
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Yup can't help with much other than what I've stated so far. And I definitely won't be using it as much as you Knife lol. MAYBE once every month will I need to refill.
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Actually, it has helped some. I just don't know what a modern Shoe Box does. My old Original Chain Drive does 45 to a max of 50 psi in ten minutes in a 88cf carbon bottle. (Scott 1 hr. Tank). In fact, I just checked it after a 600 psi fill. It only got 41 psi per 10 minutes. Grrrrrrr!!! :(
So even at a low input pressure, it is faster than the old Shoe Boxes! ;)
I wish I knew what the Altaros could do at full in-put pressure, but I can't make Hide nor tail from their Litter charts. LOL 8)
Yes, I meant Cat Litter!) ;D
Knife
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Knife/Mike-Yeah, I'd love to know fill times that we can relate to. Like filling say a 74 cu. ft. tank from 0 to 4500 or toping off the tank from 3K to 4.5k, etc. with a compressor providing 90 psi for the 1st stage, etc.,etc. Actually, I wuz waiting on YOU to hurry up and get one so we can get a extensive review! ;) ;D
I'm sure we'll get some feedback we can understand better soon....I hope. The Altaros folks seem to want to provide good service, wish they'd post some data that us dumb Americans can understand. :-\
Ed
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Knife/Mike-Yeah, I'd love to know fill times that we can relate to. Like filling say a 74 cu. ft. tank from 0 to 4500 or toping off the tank from 3K to 4.5k, etc. with a compressor providing 90 psi for the 1st stage, etc.,etc. Actually, I wuz waiting on YOU to hurry up and get one so we can get a extensive review! ;) ;D
I'm sure we'll get some feedback we can understand better soon....I hope. The Altaros folks seem to want to provide good service, wish they'd post some data that us dumb Americans can understand. :-\
Ed
A 45 min tank is just under 7L so here is what they say
Bottle which we want to fill has a capacity of 7 liters and the requirement to fulfill it from the pressure of 100bar to 300bar pressure.First, we calculate the total quantity of air required to fill the bottle by multiplying its air volume sizes of the differential pressures, namely 7 x L (300-100 bar) = 1400L air at a pressure of 1 bar (atmospheric pressure). This result is then divided by the data in the table. When using these data:
Compressor Drive: Load 65% Supplied quantity: 11.4 L / min
We know that the driving compressor delivers 11.4 L / min
We can calculate final time that required volume is divided by “Supplied quantity“, therefore
1400L /11,4 L/min = 122 minutes. Thus Filling 7 litres cylinders (from 100 to 300 bar) to desired pressure, it should take about two hours when using this drive compressor.
So filling a 45min tank from 1500 to 4400 should take about 2 hrs.......using "this drive compressor"
(http://www.altaros.cz/img/cms/schneider%20UNM%20410.jpg)
it will take a little more the twice as long (4hr+)with this one...
(http://www.altaros.cz/img/cms/%5E882733CB65A492E61A822F30D85F56AB61874F51C419660FFD%5Epimgpsh_fullsize_distr.jpg)
and about 4 times as long (about 9hrs) using this one.....
(http://www.altaros.cz/img/cms/scheppach%20HC%2024.jpg)
http://www.altaros.cz/en/other-accessories/48-altaros-compressor-booster-unit#demoTab4 (http://www.altaros.cz/en/other-accessories/48-altaros-compressor-booster-unit#demoTab4)
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My Altaros compressor it's on it way.. so is my 4500 psi 60 min tank...
Once I got everything setup I will verify some fill times.. I can do 100 to 150 psi to inlet... probably just try 140 to not stress my new toy lol
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This is what separates us stubborn Finns from you guys, when I get a new toy I put it to the test for real, because if it lets go it'll better do so when under warranty. If it says 150psi on the label it'll sure has to work with that.
Just my 2C
Marko
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thanks Old Corps! Waiting on my Uncle Hoot, HE Potter to give me the go ahead!
Big Tin boat, So far, that is about 400% faster than my chain drive SB. If I am not mistaken, this is not at full input pressure?
I have a large 60 gallon, 3.5/7HP compressor that puts out 140psi without adjustment. So it can go to 145 easily.
The website of Altaros says 145PSI. I see several people here saying 150 psi. Where does this number come from. Is it on the spec plate of the unit itself??
Thanks so much everyone. Chomping at the bit to pull the trigger on this! 8)
Knife
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After making the following post, you CHASTISE me for posting that it is OKAY to use a standard (non-oiless) compressor as the first stage for the Altaros and Shoebox pumps.
If the Alteros is using the first stage air source... not only as a first stage, but to ALSO DRIVE THE MACHINE... a small airless compressor is NOT going to cut the mustard. The more a compressor runs, the more moisture it produces. Trying to drive the Alteros with a small airless unit will have it running WAY TOO MUCH, and it will literally be blowing water out.
A LARGE, high capacity compressor... like a 2-stage pump with a 60-80 gallon tank is what would be ideal for the Alteros... as it's going to be a serious air hog.
Just like the Shoebox, you do NOT need to be afraid of conventional compressors. Alteros actually recommends them. You do NOT need an oilless unit. GO BIG for best, non moisture laden results.
Those of you who have had 120V 20 gallon or smaller compressors... when you've used blow guns, etc a lot, and ran the pump almost continuously... THAT is when they literally start spewing water out the nozzle. They get hot, and all bets are off. Larger compressors with slower revving, higher capacity pumps are FAR better with 'air hog' type devices.
Good Luck!
Truth is, Altaros does NOT recommend against using standard pumps. They actually ENCOURAGE the larger pumps, as their machines NEED lots of air. Oiless compressors will STRUGGLE to keep up with an Altaros. They just don't put out as much air as a nice conventional unit.
When it comes to the recommendations between Altaros and Shoebox... they are BOTH producing 4500 psi air. Why is it that Shoebox is the ONLY company who recommends only oiless pumps? It's just CYA...
Your quote....
Well, during good weather, which there is a "LOT" in central Texas, I shoot darned every day. This is with a .257 bullet shooter.
I fill to 4700 psi, and shoot down to 3600psi. So it gets filled 6=7 days a week.
end quote...
I mean, look at this... You, YOURSELF use a conventional air compressor to feed your Shoebox, and have been doing it 6-7 times a week ever since they've come out with the CHAIN DRIVE Shoebox... have never had a problem... yet come on here and try to whip up the fear mongers, saying nobody else should do what you are doing.
Fact is, conventional compressors are FINE for feeding the first stages of these pumps. If you try to use an oiless compressor to both RUN and feed the first stage of an Altaros, you'll be swamped with water laden air, as those compressors will run almost continuously.
Your review of the Altaros will be very skewed, compared to what others are using for air, as you have a 240V 2-stage Ingersol Rand compressor that will handle that load, even at high pressure, and not be too taxed. People trying to run an Altaros off an oiless unit will struggle with slow fill times and moisture laden air. Just no way around it, when you're relying on the compressor to not only provide the first stage, but ALSO power the motorless compressor.
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Trying to understand ....
So to run Altaros I'll need to run my shop compressor for several hours? I do not think that many shop compressors can take such abuse.
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Trying to understand ....
So to run Altaros I'll need to run my shop compressor for several hours? I do not think that many shop compressors can take such abuse.
Since the Altaros is MOTORLESS, and relies on your air compressor to not only supply the first stage of air, but ALSO power the unit... it requires a high capacity compressor. A small oiless compressor will run almost continuously, trying to both run AND feed the Altaros. When compressors run almost continuously, they run hot and put out tons of moisture.
Running a small compressor like that won't be good for it, but won't necessarily 'kill' it, either. You'll just wear it out faster, and get a lot of moisture in the air.
My advice, is that if you're looking into the Altaros, make sure you have a high capacity compressor, or you'll probably be disappointed. An F8 or F10 Shoebox has similar fill times, and can work with the lower capacity airless compressors, as it has it's own motor for power... and the compressor ONLY has to provide the first stage of air... It doesn't have to actually power the unit.
Good Luck
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Trying to understand ....
So to run Altaros I'll need to run my shop compressor for several hours? I do not think that many shop compressors can take such abuse.
IMHO - to make this a viable option for air gunners you will likely need to add a 60gal compressor to your purchase. Even the lower models are right around $500.
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Trying to understand ....
So to run Altaros I'll need to run my shop compressor for several hours? I do not think that many shop compressors can take such abuse.
IMHO - to make this a viable option for air gunners you will likely need to add a 60gal compressor to your purchase. Even the lower models are right around $500.
If that turns out to be correct seems like you might as well bite the bullet & get an Omega air charger. :-\
Ed
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While the Altaros will obviously run on a small compressor, the more air you have to power it, the higher the fill rate, up to a point.... The smallest compressor shown on the website is rated at 220 L/min = 7.8 CFM.... but they state that the "realistic airflow" is only 125 L/min (4.4 CFM).... For comparison, the 6 gal Porter Cable Oilless compressor I use with my Freedom 8 is rated at 2.7 CFM at 90 psi.... which is 76 L/min at 6 bar, so less than that at the 8 bar (120 psi) I use.... About half the fill rate of the slowest compressor in their table might be a good guess.... I fill a 60 min (9 litre) SCBA tank, typically from 200 to 300 bar on a refill situation.... That is 900 litres of air required, which using their formula of 900 / (2.7 / 2) = 667 minutes (11 hours).... My Freedom 8 does that job in less than 3 hours, and the compressor only runs about 1/3 of the time (not the 65% duty cycle in the table)....
This is not a criticism of the Altaros Booster.... just a comparison for those who already have a ShoeBox and are thinking they might get a faster fill without upgrading their shop air compressor....
Bob
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IMHO - to make this a viable option for air gunners you will likely need to add a 60gal compressor to your purchase. Even the lower models are right around $500.
You could be right if one is filling large tanks.
But say like me you only fill a 230CC tube?
A nice 26 gallon compressor at 150 PSI should be enuff?
Those go for under $200 at Harbor Freight.
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I just bought a nice "used" 60 gal Husky off of Craigslist for $225. Saw lots of them in like new condition listed for around $300.
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Well I'll definitely be watching closely as we have a nice 80gal 135psi-max
compressor as well as another 60 or 80 gal holding tank so while I would only be able to run it on
100 or 110psi I have no lack of air volume and it would be easier to run a hose than have a small compressor...
and I'll be needing to get a different oilless soon so its pretty tempting...
Plus I think its a fair bit quieter than my old chain drive shoebox with mechanical shutoff...
if it could fill as fast or faster I would be very tempted...?
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altaros now has fill times for different input volumes listed on their site, in our US language. LOL!!! I also posted it here same page, above.
My compressor is set to turn on at 90 psi. I need to check to see if I can raise this to 120, as it is a 14o psi unit. It is rated at 11.5 cfm at 90psi. Don't know what the volume will be at 120+. It has a 60 gal tank.
Any input on this Bob?
thanks,
Knife
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Air volume is limited to the compressor pump not the storage. In case some are thinking larger air receivers will matter.
If you have both oil and oiless, use the oily for actuator only and the oil less for feeding the compressor to reduce contamination by oil and/or water
Cheers
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Air volume is limited to the compressor pump not the storage. In case some are thinking larger air receivers will matter.
Yes, it's nice to have a lot of storage (large 60-80 gallon tank) but the pump has to keep it replenished. A larger tank, by itself, won't take the place of a high volume pump.
As was said, the compressor used has to not only provide the first stage of air, but also has to POWER the motorless Altaros.
Oiless pumps don't produce that much volume... and will run a lot while filling. The more they run, the more heat is generated, and the more moisture is produced. If you run the Altaros with a small air compressor, moisture WILL be a problem.
I have a 20 gallon compressor with a (5hp 'advertised') pump and a single stage oil bath compressor. It feeds the Shoebox no problem, but if trying to power sanders and grinders (air hog tools) it's just not enough. The compressor runs almost continuously, gets hot, and starts to literally spew water out of the tool. Running an Altaros with too small of a compressor will do the same thing.
Unless you have a LARGE compressor, you'll be better served with a Shoebox. If you have a 240V compressor with a 2-stage pump, you're in business. If you have an oiless, or smaller belt driven conventional 120V unit, you're pushing your luck.
Good Luck!
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Voltar is correct, the storage tank volume only affects how long the compressor will take to cycle, not the percentage of time it will have to run.... The same compressor with a 60 gal. tank will be on 3 times as long, and off 3 times as long, as with a 20 gal. tank.... but the percentage of time when running the Altaros will remain the same....
Knife, I have no idea how much the CFM will drop off at 120 psi instead of 90 psi.... but 11.5 CFM is 325 L/min.... At 120 psi (8 bar) it may be similar to the middle unit on the Altaros website, which delivers 250 L/min at that pressure.... At 65% duty cycle, they say 75 min. to top off a 4L tank from 200 to 300 bar.... so for a 9 L tank (Great White, etc.) that would be nearly 3 hours.... just about the same as my Freedom 8....
Bob
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I guess if you don't have a big tank there's no reason to ask questions.
I'm thinking for the price and only filling the Guns air tube itself?
This offers the $ savings I'm looking for anyway.
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What's the website ? I can't find it on google. Thanks!
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http://altaros-compressor.com/ (http://altaros-compressor.com/)
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I'm thinking of getting one to use with the compressor at the shop where I work.
We have a Kaesar Aircenter rotary screw compressor with a refrigerated air dryer unit built right into it. Plenty of super dry, clean, plentiful air.
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Neither pump generates moisture. The moisture comes from the humidity in the air. The smaller pump runs hotter and when the hot air hit the cold tank or piping it condensates easier than it does with the larger pump. You still need a dessicant or drier. I know there is a small one on the Altars, but will it be sufficient for heavy use in high humidity?
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Neither pump generates moisture. The moisture comes from the humidity in the air. The smaller pump runs hotter and when the hot air hit the cold tank or piping it condensates easier than it does with the larger pump. You still need a dessicant or drier. I know there is a small one on the Altars, but will it be sufficient for heavy use in high humidity?
When a compressor runs almost continuously, it runs hot, and produces a lot of moisture.
Running the Altaros off a first stage compressor that is too small, will result in a lot of moisture being produced.
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For my setup I will be running a water separator filter and regulator first then about a 20 inch long 2 inch wide dual stage dessicant filter which is not expensive. If you make it yourself. Then it goes into the altaros.. which also has a water separator and small dessicant filter built it.
Almost forgot to add that I purchased a diablo filter that will go after the Altaros to my 4500 60 mn scba tank. Further drying the air
I will be monitoring the color of my dessicant filter to see how much moisture is being produced.
Both of you guys are correct and thats why I'm taking precautions. How much moisture depends on where you live. Hopefully me living in the high desert will help me out finally lol.
Only way to find out for me is testing testing. Luckily dessicant changes colors as it absorbs.
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Neither pump generates moisture. The moisture comes from the humidity in the air. The smaller pump runs hotter and when the hot air hit the cold tank or piping it condensates easier than it does with the larger pump. You still need a dessicant or drier. I know there is a small one on the Altars, but will it be sufficient for heavy use in high humidity?
When a compressor runs almost continuously, it runs hot, and produces a lot of moisture.
Running the Altaros off a first stage compressor that is too small, will result in a lot of moisture being produced.
Only if you are feeding it with moisture laden air. You can't. Produce something from nothing. It can only condensate the moisture already in the air. Which from my understanding you don't want in your PCP anyway.
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I have another question. So
1. Part of input air goes to drive compressor
2. Another part is being used as boost pressure.
Is #1 exhausted outside or somehow it's being fed in to #2?
Shoe box can be used as helium compressor - it can pressurize "low" input pressure helium tank to PCP levels.
Will altaros waste (exhaust) part of input pressure or it will feed all input?
Thanks!
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The drive air is exhausted, not used in any way.... so unless you can re-pipe Helium directly to the "middle" stage you would be wasting it....
Bob
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Exactly!
Mine left its home country yesterday. Grrrr!!! Worse than christmas! ;D
Knife
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The drive air is exhausted, not used in any way.... so unless you can re-pipe Helium directly to the "middle" stage you would be wasting it....
Bob
I thought I read that it was used for cooling and then expelled. Wouldn't want to waste all that Helium.
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Mine should be here middle of the week. ;D
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Mine hit customs this morning!!! 8) 8) 8)
Yes, as the air is exhausted from the unit, it passes thru a chamber surrounding the cylinder walls,and cools the cylinders and then is vented to the atmosphere.
So yes, it does do something, and yes, helium would be lost unless a recovery system was some how attached to the exhaust ports. Don't see how this would be an easy or efficient thing to do however.
On the other hand, the air being exhausted, is only the air used to drive the pump. I don't see any reason why some one capable of plumbing it differently couldn't run Helium to the pressure cylinders, and compressed air to the power compression section. But I have not had actual eyes on it as of yet. Other than pic'.
Knife
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Pretty good idea.
I got my compressor yesterday !.. I have had time to mess with it a little. Like people have mentioned it's an air hog if you want it to pump fast.
Really depends what kind of compressor you have... Bigger is better for sure.
I have 175 psi husky 30 gallon "quiet" compressor manual states it can run continuously but will i do that... No.. lol
Manual recommends 50% run time... so for every hour you can run 30 minutes...
With that in mind I set up 130 psi with a SLOW flow rate. So Basically have it running about 5 minutes then off for 10 minutes.
I want to just slowly reach 3000 psi ..which it did about 8 hrs.Running slow Then do a hardcore test from 3000 psi to 4500 psi.. on a 60 minute tank.
I think that will simulate a pretty good scenario...
But you guys can give some ideas...
Right now a big problem I see like has been discussed is moisture and a lot of it. How do i know..
I have a regulator water separator before my 2 stage dessicant filters.
After about 8 hrs the compressor must of had about 1/4 of water in the tank.. water separator had a bit also.. but my whole first stage dessicant was pink... talking about a foot long of dessicant .. then luckily my 2nd stage was nice and blue...
Since then I reloaded my first stage dessicant and added 2 more water separators before my dessicant filters.
So My Setup for now... 3 water seperators before my 2 stage dessicant...then Altaros has it's own water seperator and it's own small dessicant filter.
I also use a diablo dessicant filter into my scba tank.
I will keep you guys updated but I see the biggest hurdle is best to have a big compressor for fast fills and a way to resolve the moisture from the compressed air from your shop compressor.
You can use a smaller compressor but trade off is you will have to slow down the flow or you will be running your compressor into the ground.
Minimum maybe 20 gallon tank... But try to get 175 and up psi so it will work down to 100 to 140psi.
I will keep you guys updated as i go... this weekend I will try to get a nice test going.
It does work awesome and Im happy with is so far since i dont need it to be really fast with my huge scba tank.
Sorry for spelling etc long post... I'm at work...lol
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Doc;
Mine left customs this afternoon and hit the NY Metro po at 5.30 pm eastern. So almost here! ;)
You said, you used it for 8 hrs. What was the psi in the tank before starting? Ending was 3000? How was the heat of the Altaros itself?
Thank you, Knife
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Yup was 0 bud just got the scba tank 97cu 60 min.. Glad to hear your is near.. Maybe like 4-5 days away?
Pumped from 0 to 3000
Altaros barely warm. It's a nice for the price and quiet !
But you need to plan for the moisture
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Yup was 0 bud just got the scba tank 97cu 60 min.. Glad to hear your is near.. Maybe like 4-5 days away?
Pumped from 0 to 3000
Altaros barely warm. It's a nice for the price and quiet !
But you need to plan for the moisture
Thanks Doc! It left NY Metro PO last night.
your fill came to apx. 375 pdi per hour, so not bad. And very pleased with your report of the temp on the Altaros. Not bad, Not bad a all! ;) 8)
Looking forward to your full fill times going full on, from 3000 to 4500 psi.
Knife
Knife
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Great to hear knife....
We need dairyboy to come in here and give us an update . I'm very curious to see his dessicant filter in the Altaros I'm almost sure that dessicant is saturated with water.
Hope not but I live in the desert one can assume its dry, but the compressor gets so hot then cools running so much... causes moisture to be removed From air at a rapid rate.
I have a rather cheap solution for a dessicant filter setup but it's on the unsafe side but I enclose it in steel just in case it let's go PM me if you guys are interested . Your own risk of course.
Can't wait to give it a rather full bore test on sat. I say rather because my compressor kicks on at 130 psi... I will set it to pump 140 psi...
So will be a bit of time where its below the regulator I will still keep it at 30 min run time and 30 min off time.
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OK, It came in. Had to play tag with the usps to get it. Was supposed to go to the PO, and didn't. Somehow, It went to home address. Kinda scary,as neighbors are not all that honest. They like freebies! Grrrr!!!
Now to what I thought. After years with a chain drive Shoebox, the Altaros was a bit of a let down. The how is the odd part.
With the Shoe Box, there is a bit of a ritual to get them ready to operate.
1. Put silicone in the felt feed pad on top cylinder.
2. Put a pea size dab of Lithium Grease on the piston on the lower cylinder.
3. Put Air Tool Oil on the top cylinder rod, on the outboard side to lube it where it goes thru
the brass guide.
4. Put same oil on all bearing surfaces of the pump arms. There are three.
5. Put lithium grease in the roller guide under the high pressure rod guide.
6. Put light coat of same oil on chain, if needed. Check chain tension.
7. Connect power/Air supply/Air Tank being filled/ open valves to supply air and suba tank.
8. Take a break. You've already spent valuable time you could have been filling a tank. And hope
you didn't forget anything. If you have, you will be replacing "0" Rings. (Ask How I know),
along with a complete teardown. Grrrrrr!!! No doubt, I still left something out of this list!
9. OK, remembered what it was that I forgot. Put the dayum fan turned toward the pistons and turn it on full force. (Whew)! could have toasted another set of "o" Rings Right There!!!
Whew, I'm already tired, and I haven't even started the filling.
10. If you need to fill for more than 2 hrs. Repeat almost all of the ritual again. EVERY TWO HOURS! :angrymob:
Now here's the let down of the Altaros.
1. Connect power supply for the cutoff and valving (One line) /Air Supply/fill hose for tank.
Relax. Your Filling!
And therein lies the rub. I had gotten so accustomed to the ritual of the Shoe Box, that I felt like I was neglecting the Altaros. Worried myself to death as to what I had forgotten. Well, turns out that what I had forgotten was how to relax, and let a well engineered piece of equipment do its job. I almost felt, No, I did feel guilty. I was filling, and really didn't do anything. Just Plug and Play.
My 88 CF tank was at 4300 psi, and it filled to 4500 psi. Well, slightly over 4500. Almost 4600 psi.
Time, a little over 15 min. according to my wife. Seemed more like 20 to me. (Sounds familiar!!!) :D Both the low side air cylinder and high side were cold, NOT COOL, but cold to the touch. Input air was set at 90 cut on, 140 cut off, set @ 100 cfm output on the Reg.
This was with a Ingersol Rand UpRight, with a 3.5 HP continuous 7.5 HP load rating.
I will be testing in depth over the next few weeks, but I can tell ya guys, I'm impressed!!! :8:
One more little tidbit. When you put foam, (Which plenty comes with the packing, which was superb!) The unit is whisper quiet. I can actually cast bullets right next to it, and not go bonkers. Something that was near impossible with the Shoebox. So I can actually accomplish something in the shop while filling. Before, bottle filling ran me out of my own shop. LOL!!! :rofl:
On a side note, if you need more than 2 hrs. for filling with the Altaros, it just keeps on keeping on. No need to stop it and do a thing. Just keep doing what ever you were doing. No required, interruptions. If a shoebox finishes, it stops. If you are not there to disconnect everything, it cal slowly leak down. If the same happened with the Altaros, it will restart itself, and keep the bottle at the desired pressure. Heck, it even purges its own water separator. At $603 USD, including shipping, and with a two year warranty. Seems hard to beat to me. In fact at even double the price, it still has more liveable features, with less moving parts to wear out.
A welcome Win-Win for me! ;-)
Knife
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I know someone will ask, so Yes, it is very well packed. The unit is light, (apx 11 lbs.) efficient, and looks very well engineered, and assembled, with a nice finish.
It arrived in 6 days from country of origin. No dents, dings, or scrapes. Nothing to complain about here! All U.S. fittings required were supplied, along with proper power supply for our outlets.
I plugged in the power supply, attached the usba bottle, opened the valve of the main compressor, and then the usba, and the unit started instantly. Once the foam was placed where recommended in the Altaros Vid, the only thing you really hear, is the light sound of a guinea hen. Almost like a squeaky hinge. Guess that is the air making the noise going thru the valve. I'll find out. I do know, that when the shop compressor was running, I couldn't hear the Altaros unit at all. Had to check the dial at the end of the unit to be sure it was working.
Knife
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You guys are making me jealous. My 7.3 powerstroke only needed a fuel pump and 1 fuel injector, compression was good. However, while it was in the shop my 2006 6.0 powerstroke dropped a needle bearing out of a lifter that went through the low pressure oil pump. 2 options total rebuild, or replace with a used motor. I "lucked" out and found used motor with 130,000 miles (35,000 more than the one in the truck) for only $4200.
It will be a little while before I can get an Altaros, but it is on the back burner.
Glad to hear there is a good alternative out there for air. Let us know when you can do a longer run on the fill times Knife.
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With the Shoe Box, there is a bit of a ritual to get them ready to operate.
1. Put silicone in the felt feed pad on top cylinder.
2. Put a pea size dab of Lithium Grease on the piston on the lower cylinder.
3. Put Air Tool Oil on the top cylinder rod, on the outboard side to lube it where it goes thru
the brass guide.
4. Put same oil on all bearing surfaces of the pump arms. There are three.
5. Put lithium grease in the roller guide under the high pressure rod guide.
6. Put light coat of same oil on chain, if needed. Check chain tension.
7. Connect power/Air supply/Air Tank being filled/ open valves to supply air and suba tank.
8. Take a break. You've already spent valuable time you could have been filling a tank. And hope
you didn't forget anything. If you have, you will be replacing "0" Rings. (Ask How I know),
along with a complete teardown. Grrrrrr!!! No doubt, I still left something out of this list!
9. OK, remembered what it was that I forgot. Put the dayum fan turned toward the pistons and turn it on full force. (Whew)! could have toasted another set of "o" Rings Right There!!!
Whew, I'm already tired, and I haven't even started the filling.
10. If you need to fill for more than 2 hrs. Repeat almost all of the ritual again. EVERY TWO HOURS! :angrymob:
I have the Shoebox F8. NONE of this is required. Simply put some 1000wt silicone oil on the wicks of both pistons, turn the machine on, and walk away. It shuts off when it's done, and doesn't leak. Have used it a bunch, and have never had to rebuild it. Runs quiet... like a sewing machine at low speed.
Glad you like the Altaros.
But, to keep things balanced... You've got the perfect setup for it... a commercial grade 240 volt air compressor with a 2-stage pump. Most on here have 120V units, most of which are oil-less, and not anywhere near up to the task of both running the motorless Altaros (total loss system at that), and providing the first stage air. Those with such setups will be fighting slow run times, and massive moisture problems.
Unless a person has a commercial grade 240V compressor with a 2-stage pump, the Shoebox is likely a better option for most on here.
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Thanks knife for the update !
You have a really nice compressor ! The Altaros is a perfect fit.
I'm assuming no moisture since you compressor didn't run too long.
I'll chime in later today for my results filling from a 3000 to 4500.
Husky 30 Gallon 175 psi 1.7 HP Oil Free compressor 5.1 SCFM st 90 psi.
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Testing done guys ! Fun and interesting at the same time.
Total time 4hrs 14min to fill from 3000 psi to 4550 psi.
Carbon Tank 60 minute cylinder 88 cu ft
145 psi is max at inlet to Altaros cut in from the compressor is 130 psi. So a bit of time off regulator and cut out is at 175 psi.
Compressor setup 50% on 50% off just like recommended in my Husky manual. About 7 minutes of runtime on and off. Took a bit of time with the regulator on the Altaros to get it even but hey I like getting stuff close to perfect. My Husky was howling lol !
I was In the garage all those 4 hrs making sure everything went smooth. I will tell you what I got startled bad anyone with the Altaros compressor please check that black metal nipple at the outlet of the Altaros, I didnt know and last session that little piece came unscrewed a bit so when I was pre charging my Diablo filter at about 1000 psi I got a huge hiss!!! Stopped everything and disconnected the foster fitting and found that little black piece unscrewed. So please check yours.
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g292/docmortal/Mobile%20Uploads/20161015_142415_edit_1476572139153.jpg) (http://s59.photobucket.com/user/docmortal/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161015_142415_edit_1476572139153.jpg.html)
After boosting went to check my dessicant filters as you can see about 25% of it was discolored that's the entry of the air so rest of the air perfectly dry.
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g292/docmortal/Mobile%20Uploads/20161015_141034_edit_1476568475025.jpg) (http://s59.photobucket.com/user/docmortal/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161015_141034_edit_1476568475025.jpg.html)
Even after this the Altaros has another water separator and a small dessicant filter that I haven't checked yet I will assume dessicant is perfectly colored in the Altaros.
You can see total overkill on my water seperators I have access to these as I am a Industrial Mechanic.
You can use just one like I did at first but my complete first stage was discolored so I overkilled it so I wont have to recharge so much dessicant on the stove.
I truly love this booster works great ! $600 bucks it's a steal compared to the shoebox which I was totally considering until I seen dairyboy's review and seen the potential. Shoebox also a great machine from what I have been reading just different approaches.
You can use any workshop compressor but moisture is a problem like I said before and depends totally on your compressor. Smaller the compressor the longer the fill time will take.
I recommend totally some type of dessicant with water seperator setup and test to make sure it's not all discolored and letting wet air through to your scba tank or pcp gun.
Again sorry for the long post grammar etc... Just want you guys to have complete info before making a decision. Those with shoebox what was your fill times 3000 to 4500 psi ?
Thanks guys now we can make some time comparisons.
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Thanks Doc, that's a lot of moisture for the desert. What's your average humidity there? Great looking set up with the filters.
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Thx bud... Mornings looking at 50% evenings like 20%
I know I havent seen that much water come from my compressor something about it running hot air holds more water as it cools all that compressed air in a small place can't hold the water anymore and just rains inside your tank.
Its just my basic understanding, Im sure others will chime in. I planned for this that's why I got my setup the way it is.
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Doc;
My old Chain Drive SB, for 3000---4500 psi time would be 6 hours = maintenance and cool down between sessions, so about 6.5 hrs. Total.
Same for the Altaros as it is currently set for me would be 1 Hr. 50 minutes. Apx. I can do better. I did not change anything with the internal adjustment, nor have I upped the turn on of the Shop Compressor yet.
Here are this morning's results, after a session with the .257 8)
Ran a preliminary fill test Sat. Morning after a shooting session with the .257
Results as follows;
Tank being filled, 1 hour, 88 cubic foot Scott SCBA bottle.
-Pressure in bottle. Slightly under 4100 psi
-input pressure from 11.5 cfm at 90 psi, with reg set at 110 psi.
-Used the Altaros booster pump to fill the bottle to 4700 psi.
-Time for fill, 45 minutes for a 600 psi fill. So it look like it will be apx 800 psi per hour at this fill pressure. Need to up the cut on point for my up-right, as it drops to 90 psi before coming on.
My Chain Drive Shoe Box unit, (one of the very early units) gets 250 psi per hour. 3X 250 is 750 psi
At this point, with current settings, the Altaros is a little over 300% faster.
(My requirements are slightly different. I fill the AG to 3700-3800 psi, and shoot down to 3400 psi).
I fill the SCBA from 3400-3500 psi, to 4700 psi, So as you can see, I don't require the same amount of time most would. ;D
I understand the newest Shoe Box's are similar in fill time to the Altaros. (at double the price)
More testing to come. ;)
Knife
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Testing done guys ! Fun and interesting at the same time.
Total time 4hrs 14min to fill from 3000 psi to 4550 psi.
Carbon Tank 60 minute cylinder 88 cu ft
145 psi is max at inlet to Altaros cut in from the compressor is 130 psi. So a bit of time off regulator and cut out is at 175 psi.
Again sorry for the long post grammar etc... Just want you guys to have complete info before making a decision. Those with shoebox what was your fill times 3000 to 4500 psi ?
Thanks guys now we can make some time comparisons.
My Shoebox F8 takes 2-3 hours to pump from 3000ish to 4500. I often don't wait until it gets all the way down to 3000... so to be 'safe', 3 hours with a 71 cu ft Tiger Shark tank. Just set it, and forget it. Go do something else, come back and it's done. The wicks and 1000wt silicone oil are nice. I also made some little reservoirs out of 3/4" diameter, 1" long caps. Just don't completely drown them, or some silicone oil will make it's way into the tank.
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So Mike, you're saying, anywhere from 500 psi to 1000 psi per hour from the shoebox sending pressure to a smaller tank. Big difference between 500 and 1000. Can't' really tell much from this. ???
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If my math is close I'm getting 348 psi an hr.
With a semi common compressor.
I'm wondering if a 100 psi fill to the Altaros but with more cfm will change my results for the better.? Seems to like the 130-145psi input pressure but it hungers for that cfm.
Great work Knife keep us posted on your testing. 800 psi an hr is KILLER !
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Thx bud... Mornings looking at 50% evenings like 20%
I know I havent seen that much water come from my compressor something about it running hot air holds more water as it cools all that compressed air in a small place can't hold the water anymore and just rains inside your tank.
Its just my basic understanding, Im sure others will chime in. I planned for this that's why I got my setup the way it is.
Man I would pay money to have humidity like that! (actually I do, it's called air conditioning) Our's might get that low a few days a year in the winter time. It's typically 80-90%+ here in Central Fl :o
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I know what you mean. Central Texas is often in the 80-90% range. 30-40% is a Great day!
Yes, volume is everything. It is the volume at the high psi that moves things. ;)
Knife
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If my math is close I'm getting 348 psi an hr.
With a semi common compressor.
I'm wondering if a 100 psi fill to the Altaros but with more cfm will change my results for the better.? Seems to like the 130-145psi input pressure but it hungers for that cfm.
Great work Knife keep us posted on your testing. 800 psi an hr is KILLER !
Thanks Doc!
Wish I could use more of the volume of my up-right.
Now I'm wondering how the faster fill times will affect the longevity of the Altaros. For what ever reason, unlike the Altaros videos posted by the Company, the Altaros Pump is staying not only, Not Hot, or even warm, but actually colder than ambient air. It is actually chilled to the touch.
I need to take my laser temp reader to the shop next fill and check the actual temps. The exhaust seems dry, so i'm wondering just why it is so much colder than what is expected by Altaros.
My shop is Air Conditioned. This may be part of the equation. AC does tend to dry the air out a bit. ;)
I managed to get almost a solid 900 psi per hr. by raising the cut in point a bit more.
It is a balancing act between psi and volume for a given compressor specification. One without the other is a problem. Get them balanced, and your better off. This is so much easier with a larger compressor. So I will continue to play with it. ;)
Knife
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Just a note my pump at both ends were warm not hot. Estimate is about 105F.
If your pumping really fast like in the vids the exhaust looks like it helps cool the ends and I didnt use the sponges to help smooth out the sound. Super quiet anyways.
How sure are you with moisture ? Does your shop have some sort of air dryer?
Its probably because your running so much flow it's nice and cool. Does the small water seperator in the Altaros have little droplets?
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doc;
apx. two small drops of water were found in the separator in the Altaros case. Time for me to add more desiccant before the unit! ;)
Knife
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Yeah for sure it wouldn't hurt.
Side note when I got my Altaros the seperator had very small droplets of water around the bowl. Tells me they test the units before it leaves the factory.
Honestly I dont think it's up to the task of drying out the air completely but to keep the price in check I understand why they did it.
I built my dessicant filters for about 50 bucks :P
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You guys may already know this but keep your air hose from compressor short as possible and use the largest diameter hose you can find, should help out your compressor a bit.
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Could someone who has 1 of the post a picture of how the water separator/ filter (#11 in the instruction booklet) is plumbed in? In the booklet which I downloaded from the web sight shows it on the bull side of a tee fitting. How does this even work efficiently? Shouldn't go through the filter? is there an in and out on this filter? Doesn't look like it is even doing anything on the bull of tee but acting like a small plenum storage. I don't know if its just an early pre release model and they never changed the instructions or this is how it is really plumbed in
Edit - After closely watching the video again I see the air inlet from the shop compressor passes through this filter. And then it tees to the control unit and the air inlet of the secondary water separator before the medium pressure stage. Is this correct?
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Compressor air goes into the water separator then there is a T ..One side goes into the small dessicant filter to one end of the cylinder and the other end goes into the middle control unit.
You are correct but here is a pic anyways. 8)
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g292/docmortal/Mobile%20Uploads/20161017_172820.jpg) (http://s59.photobucket.com/user/docmortal/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161017_172820.jpg.html)
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Humm, Got to look again.
Yiou suggest a short hose. Everything I have heard is a long hose before a second water separator, to help the moisture condense to be trapped by the second separator.
(First on my shop compressor outlet, Second, in the Altaros box itself).
In my case, I have a second separator and oil separator, before the altarose, and a decadent filter as well.
This makes three before the Altaros = a very small one on the end of the line as it connects to the Altaros.
Whew! So that's 4 water separators, and 3 desiccant filters.
I would love to have a High pressure filter, but man, those are EXPENSIVE!!! :o
Knife
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Tell me about it buddy. That's why I made my own .
Things I noticed the water seperators get the big drops but it will not get everything that's why the dessicant is so important to get the water still suspended in the air. I have overkill of 8 seperators but as you've seen the dessicant still got the last of it.
Not sure where diminishing returns are with water separators but my dessicant is only discolored about 25% from a foot long area in 4 hrs... with 8 water seperators.
Then I just pan fry the discolored dessicant and its back to being blue.
Love it LOL
Insane how much even small dessicant filters cost.
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Has anyone tried to regulate the output pressure from a scuba tank and running it to the booster compressor? Seems to me like the problems with using an adequate compressor and moisture issues could be avoided. Is there any reason this wouldn't work? I have at least 5 scuba tanks that I rarely use but all have air in them, it'd be nice to use them for running a booster. I've never looked for a regulator, but I've often wondered about using one to power an impact that I keep in my truck.
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Has anyone tried to regulate the output pressure from a scuba tank and running it to the booster compressor? Seems to me like the problems with using an adequate compressor and moisture issues could be avoided. Is there any reason this wouldn't work? I have at least 5 scuba tanks that I rarely use but all have air in them, it'd be nice to use them for running a booster. I've never looked for a regulator, but I've often wondered about using one to power an impact that I keep in my truck.
Fast and efficient
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/WSA40-maximum-320-bar-4640-PSI-pneumatic-gas-pump-Co2-gas-Presure-pump-for-cylinder-filling/109148_32360192933.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/WSA40-maximum-320-bar-4640-PSI-pneumatic-gas-pump-Co2-gas-Presure-pump-for-cylinder-filling/109148_32360192933.html)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kbRdNdMNwo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kbRdNdMNwo)
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How do you have it all connected (number of filters, etc.), and what are your fill times?
Has anyone tried to regulate the output pressure from a scuba tank and running it to the booster compressor? Seems to me like the problems with using an adequate compressor and moisture issues could be avoided. Is there any reason this wouldn't work? I have at least 5 scuba tanks that I rarely use but all have air in them, it'd be nice to use them for running a booster. I've never looked for a regulator, but I've often wondered about using one to power an impact that I keep in my truck.
Fast and efficient
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/WSA40-maximum-320-bar-4640-PSI-pneumatic-gas-pump-Co2-gas-Presure-pump-for-cylinder-filling/109148_32360192933.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/WSA40-maximum-320-bar-4640-PSI-pneumatic-gas-pump-Co2-gas-Presure-pump-for-cylinder-filling/109148_32360192933.html)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kbRdNdMNwo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kbRdNdMNwo)
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Tell me about it buddy. That's why I made my own .
Things I noticed the water seperators get the big drops but it will not get everything that's why the dessicant is so important to get the water still suspended in the air. I have overkill of 8 seperators but as you've seen the dessicant still got the last of it.
Not sure where diminishing returns are with water separators but my dessicant is only discolored about 25% from a foot long area in 4 hrs... with 8 water seperators.
Then I just pan fry the discolored dessicant and its back to being blue.
Love it LOL
Insane how much even small dessicant filters cost.
I would love to have a High "Side Filter", like the one Dman sells over on the TAG. A very good price, but still around 270 usd if I remember right. Best I remember, Joe B.'s unit is over 400 usd.
Grrrrrrrr!!!
Knife
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How do you have it all connected (number of filters, etc.), and what are your fill times?
Has anyone tried to regulate the output pressure from a scuba tank and running it to the booster compressor? Seems to me like the problems with using an adequate compressor and moisture issues could be avoided. Is there any reason this wouldn't work? I have at least 5 scuba tanks that I rarely use but all have air in them, it'd be nice to use them for running a booster. I've never looked for a regulator, but I've often wondered about using one to power an impact that I keep in my truck.
Fast and efficient
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/WSA40-maximum-320-bar-4640-PSI-pneumatic-gas-pump-Co2-gas-Presure-pump-for-cylinder-filling/109148_32360192933.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/WSA40-maximum-320-bar-4640-PSI-pneumatic-gas-pump-Co2-gas-Presure-pump-for-cylinder-filling/109148_32360192933.html)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kbRdNdMNwo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kbRdNdMNwo)
Yes, people with multiple bottles have been doing this for years, to be able to use up the remaining air in scba and scuba bottles that are too low to power a PCP. But you are still left with having to fill the bottles to full capacity from an out side vendor at some point.
That, and as the unit listed requires 263+ psi to start, it is not a unit that can be with your shop compressor for the first stage.
This is where the Altaros comes in. It has two stages, where the one linked here has but one stage. And cost more to boot!
Knife
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Reason I asked was because member in this area (forget handle, at the moment) got a dive compressor that fills to 3.3 or 3.5K, and this might be something for him to use if he's got a lot of spare air (or me, if he can eventually keep it at my shop for free... he needs three-phase, which I've got). Would like to know fill times, etc., only because I might still be better off with a shoebox for my own use. Haha.
How do you have it all connected (number of filters, etc.), and what are your fill times?
Has anyone tried to regulate the output pressure from a scuba tank and running it to the booster compressor? Seems to me like the problems with using an adequate compressor and moisture issues could be avoided. Is there any reason this wouldn't work? I have at least 5 scuba tanks that I rarely use but all have air in them, it'd be nice to use them for running a booster. I've never looked for a regulator, but I've often wondered about using one to power an impact that I keep in my truck.
Fast and efficient
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/WSA40-maximum-320-bar-4640-PSI-pneumatic-gas-pump-Co2-gas-Presure-pump-for-cylinder-filling/109148_32360192933.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/WSA40-maximum-320-bar-4640-PSI-pneumatic-gas-pump-Co2-gas-Presure-pump-for-cylinder-filling/109148_32360192933.html)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kbRdNdMNwo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kbRdNdMNwo)
Yes, people with multiple bottles have been doing this for years, to be able to use up the remaining air in scba and scuba bottles that are too low to power a PCP. But you are still left with having to fill the bottles to full capacity from an out side vendor at some point.
That, and as the unit listed requires 263+ psi to start, it is not a unit that can be with your shop compressor for the first stage.
This is where the Altaros comes in. It has two stages, where the one linked here has but one stage. And cost more to boot!
Knife
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Im probably going to modify mine a bit.. just to remove the water separator and the dessicant filter in the unit. I got enough dry air already before these do anything.
That mini dessicant filter is so small inside the Altaros guess it's better then nothing. I'm using 2 feet of dessicant ... Streamlining this baby lol
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Hey everyone, I am planing on ordering the Altaros.
I am in the process of building a compressor and filter setup.
So far this is what I am planing, any advice would be appreciated.
https://www.amazon.com/Makita-MAC5200-Big-Bore-Compressor/dp/B0001Q2VPU/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1477191197&sr=8-2&keywords=makita%2Bcompressor&th=1 (https://www.amazon.com/Makita-MAC5200-Big-Bore-Compressor/dp/B0001Q2VPU/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1477191197&sr=8-2&keywords=makita%2Bcompressor&th=1)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007EX28AG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007EX28AG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wilkerson-X03-02-000-10-CFM-150-Max-PSI-Silica-Gel-Desiccant-Air-Dryer-/232118250036?hash=item360b536a34:g:uKAAAOSwPCVYBoa8 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wilkerson-X03-02-000-10-CFM-150-Max-PSI-Silica-Gel-Desiccant-Air-Dryer-/232118250036?hash=item360b536a34:g:uKAAAOSwPCVYBoa8)
Open to any suggestions, thanks.
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Hello Eric...
In using a regular Husky Compressor from homedepot 30 gallon 5.1 cfm at 90 psi . Think its still in sale for 269 but I'm not looking for fast fills so this was good enough and I'm buget minded lol
Compressor if you have room get the BIGGEST tank and most cfm you can afford.
That dessicant filter is nice . It's also good to have a water separator filter before and after the dessicant. That way the filter gets any dessicant particles left in the air.
Pm me for a cheap dessicant setup if your interested save you some $ but it's and your own risk so far my setup is working great.
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Hey everyone, I am planing on ordering the Altaros.
I am in the process of building a compressor and filter setup.
So far this is what I am planing, any advice would be appreciated.
https://www.amazon.com/Makita-MAC5200-Big-Bore-Compressor/dp/B0001Q2VPU/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1477191197&sr=8-2&keywords=makita%2Bcompressor&th=1 (https://www.amazon.com/Makita-MAC5200-Big-Bore-Compressor/dp/B0001Q2VPU/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1477191197&sr=8-2&keywords=makita%2Bcompressor&th=1)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007EX28AG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007EX28AG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wilkerson-X03-02-000-10-CFM-150-Max-PSI-Silica-Gel-Desiccant-Air-Dryer-/232118250036?hash=item360b536a34:g:uKAAAOSwPCVYBoa8 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wilkerson-X03-02-000-10-CFM-150-Max-PSI-Silica-Gel-Desiccant-Air-Dryer-/232118250036?hash=item360b536a34:g:uKAAAOSwPCVYBoa8)
Open to any suggestions, thanks.
The Wilkerson dryer is an excellent unit. I use one, and really like it. Very high capacity. Holds around a quart of desiccant.
The compressor is definitely on the small side. You'll want something SIGNIFICANTLY larger.
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Hey everyone, I am planing on ordering the Altaros.
I am in the process of building a compressor and filter setup.
So far this is what I am planing, any advice would be appreciated.
https://www.amazon.com/Makita-MAC5200-Big-Bore-Compressor/dp/B0001Q2VPU/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1477191197&sr=8-2&keywords=makita%2Bcompressor&th=1 (https://www.amazon.com/Makita-MAC5200-Big-Bore-Compressor/dp/B0001Q2VPU/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1477191197&sr=8-2&keywords=makita%2Bcompressor&th=1)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007EX28AG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007EX28AG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wilkerson-X03-02-000-10-CFM-150-Max-PSI-Silica-Gel-Desiccant-Air-Dryer-/232118250036?hash=item360b536a34:g:uKAAAOSwPCVYBoa8 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wilkerson-X03-02-000-10-CFM-150-Max-PSI-Silica-Gel-Desiccant-Air-Dryer-/232118250036?hash=item360b536a34:g:uKAAAOSwPCVYBoa8)
Open to any suggestions, thanks.
Well, I feel bad now. I didn't notice that it was a (1) available, and was apparently a gently used, or an unsold unit, and pulled the trigger. the price at 1/2 retail was too to pass up. ;)
My apologies Sir. Didn't mean to cut you off at the knees!
Knife
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I should have specified, I already have the compressor and filters lol. I am going to try and make the best of what I already have.
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The scfm is not bad at 90psi ..The tank size is too small but there is a solution find a used tank and piggy back it. So it would fill the one built in and fill a external one and you will increase your capacity. Few YouTube vids on the procedure. Easy
You can use the compressor the way it is just will take a long long time. Not sure what the duty cycle is but rule of thumb 50% on 50% off.
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I was wondering, and still confused how more capacity equates to faster fills. Rolair makes a nice 10 gal tank:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003ZDT2PI/ref=ox_sc_sfl_image_5?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2O561G1SPZ87O (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003ZDT2PI/ref=ox_sc_sfl_image_5?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2O561G1SPZ87O)
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Larger tank capacity means the compressor will run longer to fill it and then "rest" longer between runs.... The CRITICAL thing for the fill speeds with an Air Booster is the CFM of the compressor at the fill pressure you are running the Altaros at....
Bob
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That's how I thought it worked, sure is a big jump in price when you exceed 7 CFM.
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Bob got it perfect...its just more of a rest area for your compressor
I'm running with 5.1 cfm at 90psi but my tank holds 175 psi so there is alot of pressure before my tank kicks on.
Home depot has mine for 269 onsale.. but compressors above 30 gallon starts getting pricy.
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Hi All,
I attached a picture of the compressor I have. Is it adequate for the Altaros booster?
Thanks,
Taso
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I would think so.... The fill rate would be the question....
Bob
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Guys, is there anyway that the unit could be driven by a compressor and the boost air come from a tank? Could the unit be replumbed so that it could be used as a true air booster? I would love to be able to use the nitrogen out of my tanks when the pressure drops below useable levels. If you could regulate a tank to 140 Psi and feed it to the unit and use a compressor to drive it you wouldn't have to worry about moisture.
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Hi All,
I attached a picture of the compressor I have. Is it adequate for the Altaros booster?
Thanks,
Taso
It will run it, but it will run almost continuously... and when it does that, it will get hot and produce a ton of moisture.
To make it work, you'll need to manually turn it off and on to let it rest and stay cool... have a really good desiccator like has been detailed in this thread, and not push it. The guy on here using a similar compressor lives in the desert with very low humidity, and still used up quite a bit of desiccant on a single fill... and that was with letting his unit rest by only running it 50% of the time.
So, you CAN make it work, but you'll need to constantly babysit the thing, turning it off and on enough to keep it running cool, and build a desiccant dryer like was shown on here. The desiccant beads, themselves, can be purchased on Amazon or Ebay for a reasonable cost... or you can buy the nice Wilkerson unit that was shown on here. I have one of those. They hold about a quart of beads, and can usually be found for less than $100.
The Altaros is inexpensive, but you'll need a 240V compressor with a 2-stage pump to run it to it's potential, and truly keep it happy... and those are around $1,200. You can get by with a slightly smaller compressor, but you'll have to follow the above procedure.
Good Luck
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So then would the Shoebox be a better booster for those without 240V, 2-stage pump compressors?
Thanks,
Taso
EDIT: I forgot to clarify. I just want the convenience to set it to fill my tank and walk away. I understand the whole stopping the process to let the compressor cool but I know I'll forget to stop and start the process over and over. Thanks, Taso
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Mike, I asked the same question over 2 months ago, regarding using the Altaros to boost Helium while driving it with air.... in the hopes that the manufacturer would answer.... the same day Altaros himself posted about his booster.... http://airgunguild.com/airgun-tanks-compressors-and-filling/altaros-air-compressor/15/ (http://airgunguild.com/airgun-tanks-compressors-and-filling/altaros-air-compressor/15/)
Crickets....
Bob
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Altaros for guys that already have a really really nice compressor is a no brainer I believe knife said its about 300% faster then a shoebox because he has the flow to push it to its potential.
Shoebox is a proven entity already nice design and works.
For me I'm on a budget AND I'm not in a hurry to fill up my tank.
So if I have to wait 3 to 4 hrs to get my fill is fine. I made my own dessicant setup and i already had the water seperators so was cheap.
I spent 700 bucks and have a great reliable system that I set and walk away from.
Just really depends on what you want... Fast or Slow... what compressor you have at home ?
Lots of variables .... for me it works great and I'm just down 700 bucks...
For you guys that have 800 to 1200 and up compressors it's a no brainer get the Altaros some type of dessicant filter and you will kill any shoebox.
For us budget minded peeps that decision is much harder and depends what your needs are.
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Altaros for guys that already have a really really nice compressor is a no brainer I believe knife said its about 300% faster then a shoebox because he has the flow to push it to its potential.
Yea, what I'm saying... is that a non commercial compressor will not feed the capacity of the Altaros, and will run continuously. It will need to be cycled off and on manually in order to not get too hot, and spew mass amounts of water.
If you want a machine that 'can' pump high pressure air for cheap, don't mind babysitting it, and have the proper desiccant filters... it might work just fine. It will just take a very long time, and it won't be 'set it and forget it' unless you have a commercial grade 240V 2-stage compressor to drive it. Anything else will run continuously, and create major heat/moisture problems.
Good Luck!
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The Altaros is inexpensive, but you'll need a 240V compressor with a 2-stage pump to run it to it's potential, and truly keep it happy... and those are around $1,200. You can get by with a slightly smaller compressor, but you'll have to follow the above procedure.
Good Luck
[/quote]
Which is why it looks like it'd be a better idea for ME to save my pennies for an Omega Air Charger @ $1400. :-\ I've read several reviews, all pretty positive.
Ed
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Which is why it looks like it'd be a better idea for ME to save my pennies for an Omega Air Charger @ $1400. :-\ I've read several reviews, all pretty positive.
Ed
These prices are crazy...
You can go to Tractor Supply and buy a commercial Ingersol Rand 240V 2-stage compressor with an 80 gallon tank weighing 400-500 lbs.... for the same price as one of those little Omegas... if not less. :o
Crazy how the Chinese can sell stuff so cheap. (and yes, the vast majority of IR compressors are either made in China, and/or are just assembled here using Chinese parts)
Seems like we should be able to buy something like the Omega for around $400.
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N2O, With respect, have you ever posted a comment that was NOT negative?
Folks, go the the TAG and research The Omega. It does a good job, but there are issues aplenty.
For the record, this is the unit I use from tractor supply. It just happens to be on sale right now for 50 bucks off list! It is capable of 100% Duty Cycle. Porter cable has a similar unit a little over 400 bucks that is a 50% Duty Cycle unit. both made in the USA.
http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/ingersoll-rand-5-hp-air-compressor-60-gal?cm_vc=-10005 (http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/ingersoll-rand-5-hp-air-compressor-60-gal?cm_vc=-10005)
http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/ingersoll-rand-5-hp-air-compressor-60-gal?cm_vc=-10005 (http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/ingersoll-rand-5-hp-air-compressor-60-gal?cm_vc=-10005)
There are now two versions of the IR. I purchased the Non Industrial version 9-10 years ago for my Cylinder Head Porting business for Drag Racing. It has performed all these years with zero issues.
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N2O, With respect, have you ever posted a comment that was NOT negative?
Folks, go the the TAG and research The Omega. It does a good job, but there are issues aplenty.
For the record, this is the unit I use from tractor supply. It just happens to be on sale right now for 50 bucks off list! It is capable of 100% Duty Cycle. Porter cable has a similar unit a little over 400 bucks that is a 50% Duty Cycle unit. both made in the USA.
http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/ingersoll-rand-5-hp-air-compressor-60-gal?cm_vc=-10005 (http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/ingersoll-rand-5-hp-air-compressor-60-gal?cm_vc=-10005)
http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/ingersoll-rand-5-hp-air-compressor-60-gal?cm_vc=-10005 (http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/ingersoll-rand-5-hp-air-compressor-60-gal?cm_vc=-10005)
There are now two versions of the IR. I purchased the Non Industrial version 9-10 years ago for my Cylinder Head Porting business for Drag Racing. It has performed all these years with zero issues.
Some positive stuff...
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=69190.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=69190.0)
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=97715.20 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=97715.20)
I ported the heads and intake on the mustang in my avatar. It's a factory block, pump gas n/a, solid flat tappet 306 with a 200hp Top Gun plate out of the 1990's that is shifted at only 6800 rpm... that is run through a stock toploader 4-speed and 4.33 Detroit Locker with a 28x9 tire. It's a street car, and weighs 3250 lb with me in it. Last week, it ran a personal best of 9.88 @ 135.36 mph. 6.29 @ 109 in the 1/8. 1.39 60ft.
I build the engines, port the heads, intake, select the cams, etc... also build the transmissions and rear ends.
This engine has the very first generation 170cc Twisted Wedge heads... as all the parts were procured in 1995... as the previous engine lasted for 12 years before I took it out. This one had been in the car just as long, before I removed it for a refreshening last year. Next engine will be a more serious 363 with High Ports.
It's not a full race car, but runs really well for what it is. I know my way around the mechanical realm, and can do a lot more than just point out the negative.
The Altaros is an AIR HOG. Trying to run one with a small compressor will result in the compressor running 100% of the time, and never shutting off. When it does this, it gets hot and starts spewing moisture. To effectively use the Altaros with a small compressor, it will need to be manually shut on and off to allow it to cool. This will be a PITA, and take forever to fill up the tank. A GOOD desiccant will also be mandatory. It's simple physics. No way around it.
And for the record... those are NOT the compressors you use. You mentioned yours goes up to 175psi. That takes a 2-stage pump. These only go up to 135psi max, and only have a single stage pump. A unit like yours is around $1,200.
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I have heard a lot of opinions about suitable compressors, and the effect they have on the moisture content of the air for use with the Altaros (or a ShoeBox, for that matter).... Here is my understanding of the Physics....
1. The higher the humidity of your environment, the more water in each CF of air.... The higher the temperature, the more water the air can hold....
2. If your humidity is 15%, once compressed to 90 psi, it is now 100% at the same temperature.... Therefore, most "shop air" is 100% humidity....
3. Each CF of air, once compressed enough that the humidity is 100%, will separate into liquid water and air saturated with water at whatever temperature it is at....
4. If you have a small compressor, running continuously (or nearly so), the air coming out of the outlet of the tank will be hot, and so will contain more water vapour....
5. If you have a large compressor, with a large tank, that only runs for a short duty cycle, the air in the tank has time to cool somewhat, and some of the water condenses in the tank and must be periodically drained....
6. In virtually every case, unless you dry the air after it exits your shop compressor.... you will be feeding your Altaros or ShoeBox with 100% humid air.... Further compression WILL produce liquid water at the outlet, once cooled to room temperature....
7. We are compressing the air about 200-300 times to fill our guns and tanks.... Drying the air before your shop compressor down to 1% humidity is still not good enough to prevent 100% humidity at your tank or gun....
8. Drying the air between the shop compressor and the Altaros or ShoeBox is much better, but even 3% humidity there will mean 100% humidity at 4500 psi....
There are a few things to be learned from the above....
1. Drying the air before your shop compressor is pretty much useless.... Dryers work better when the humidity is high, they aren't great at removing the last few percent....
2. Drying the air after your shop compressor is MUCH better, but you are still likely to end up with some water in your tank or gun....
3. To get completely dry air for your tank or gun, you must dry the air AFTER compressing it, and high pressure drying filters are expensive....
4. HOWEVER, if you fill a tank, and then use that tank to fill your gun, the air in the gun will be LESS THAN 100% HUMIDITY BECAUSE THE PRESSURE IS LOWER.... Water will collect in the tank, however....
Now, specifically for the Altaros....
1. It uses air from your shop compressor to drive it, and it's HUNGRY for air, if you want a decent fill rate.... That means a large CFM rating shop compressor if you want faster fills....
2. The larger your storage tank, the more chance you have for water to cool and condense in the tank.... but a large tank has nothing to do with the fill rate or duty cycle....
3. Using a series of tanks (2 or more) can allow the air to cool after your shop compressor, and more water to collect in the tanks, with less needing removal downstream....
4. If you are using a small CFM compressor, I would think about using a second (say 10 gal.) tank, with a water trap and/or dessicant filter before the second tank, and a dessicant filter after it....
This would actually be a useful setup for any size shop compressor, running an Altaros or ShoeBox.... The more you can do to cool and dry the air before feeding your high-pressure compressor, the drier the output air will be.... You could even install your regulator between the two tanks (ie run the second tank at your regulated feed pressure for the Altaros or ShoeBox) because expanding the air between the two tanks will cause more moisture to drop out before the second tank.... You should still have a dessicant filter before your high-pressure compressor....
Bob
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Spot on, Bob.
For the record, this is the unit I use from tractor supply. It just happens to be on sale right now for 50 bucks off list! It is capable of 100% Duty Cycle. Porter cable has a similar unit a little over 400 bucks that is a 50% Duty Cycle unit. both made in the USA.
http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/ingersoll-rand-5-hp-air-compressor-60-gal?cm_vc=-10005 (http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/ingersoll-rand-5-hp-air-compressor-60-gal?cm_vc=-10005)
http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/ingersoll-rand-5-hp-air-compressor-60-gal?cm_vc=-10005 (http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/ingersoll-rand-5-hp-air-compressor-60-gal?cm_vc=-10005)
The ones you listed are only single stage. You've said yours is a 175psi unit, which would be 2-stage.
These listed would still be a MAJOR improvement over what most are using.
This is the best deal there. A 2-stage 175psi 80 gallon unit for $999 on sale.
http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/ingersoll-rand-5hp-air-compressor-80-gal?cm_vc=-10005 (http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/ingersoll-rand-5hp-air-compressor-80-gal?cm_vc=-10005)
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Wow, all I can say is I SURE HOPE my local dive shop that does 4500 psi fills stays around as long as I do! ;) :-\
Ed
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Wow, all I can say is I SURE HOPE my local dive shop that does 4500 psi fills stays around as long as I do! ;) :-\
Ed
Ed,
If the close, buy their compressor lol. Maybe they'll sell it to you cheap since you're a loyal customer.
Taso
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Wow, all I can say is I SURE HOPE my local dive shop that does 4500 psi fills stays around as long as I do! ;) :-\
Ed
Ed,
If the close, buy their compressor lol. Maybe they'll sell it to you cheap since you're a loyal customer.
Taso
Now there's a great idea! ;) Can't be more than $10K................ :o
Ed
-
Ed,
They cost that much? Sorry. I didn't know that. And I thought the Bauers were expensive! :o
I'm thinking a Shoebox Max for my use and budget.
Taso
-
Taso-
I really don't know what it cost but it can't be MORE than $10K...........I don't think. ???
I keep thinking about an Omega Air Charger. :-\
Ed
-
N2O, With respect, have you ever posted a comment that was NOT negative?
Folks, go the the TAG and research The Omega. It does a good job, but there are issues aplenty.
For the record, this is the unit I use from tractor supply. It just happens to be on sale right now for 50 bucks off list! It is capable of 100% Duty Cycle. Porter cable has a similar unit a little over 400 bucks that is a 50% Duty Cycle unit. both made in the USA.
http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/ingersoll-rand-5-hp-air-compressor-60-gal?cm_vc=-10005 (http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/ingersoll-rand-5-hp-air-compressor-60-gal?cm_vc=-10005)
http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/ingersoll-rand-5-hp-air-compressor-60-gal?cm_vc=-10005 (http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/ingersoll-rand-5-hp-air-compressor-60-gal?cm_vc=-10005)
There are now two versions of the IR. I purchased the Non Industrial version 9-10 years ago for my Cylinder Head Porting business for Drag Racing. It has performed all these years with zero issues.
Some positive stuff...
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=69190.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=69190.0)
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=97715.20 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=97715.20)
I ported the heads and intake on the mustang in my avatar. It's a factory block, pump gas n/a, solid flat tappet 306 with a 200hp Top Gun plate out of the 1990's that is shifted at only 6800 rpm... that is run through a stock toploader 4-speed and 4.33 Detroit Locker with a 28x9 tire. It's a street car, and weighs 3250 lb with me in it. Last week, it ran a personal best of 9.88 @ 135.36 mph. 6.29 @ 109 in the 1/8. 1.39 60ft.
I build the engines, port the heads, intake, select the cams, etc... also build the transmissions and rear ends.
This engine has the very first generation 170cc Twisted Wedge heads... as all the parts were procured in 1995... as the previous engine lasted for 12 years before I took it out. This one had been in the car just as long, before I removed it for a refreshening last year. Next engine will be a more serious 363 with High Ports.
It's not a full race car, but runs really well for what it is. I know my way around the mechanical realm, and can do a lot more than just point out the negative.
The Altaros is an AIR HOG. Trying to run one with a small compressor will result in the compressor running 100% of the time, and never shutting off. When it does this, it gets hot and starts spewing moisture. To effectively use the Altaros with a small compressor, it will need to be manually shut on and off to allow it to cool. This will be a PITA, and take forever to fill up the tank. A GOOD desiccant will also be mandatory. It's simple physics. No way around it.
And for the record... those are NOT the compressors you use. You mentioned yours goes up to 175psi. That takes a 2-stage pump. These only go up to 135psi max, and only have a single stage pump. A unit like yours is around $1,200.
Nope, never said mine goes to 175 psi. You are confusing some of the smaller compressors shown in this thread. (Which were oilless if I remember correctly.
Mine is factory set to 135 and I bumped it to 140 psi. with 11.2 cfm at 90 psi and it allows the Albatross to put out well over 800/near 900 psi per hour into a 88 cf scba bottle. With VERY little moisture. It is running 7 min. and off 6 minutes, and is giving fairly cool air.
The unit linked is now built to 15. cfm at 90. Which is higher than my older otherwise identical unit at 11.2 cfm at 90 psi. Which is what I now the pressure I feed to the altaros. ;)
Knife
-
Spot on, Bob.
For the record, this is the unit I use from tractor supply. It just happens to be on sale right now for 50 bucks off list! It is capable of 100% Duty Cycle. Porter cable has a similar unit a little over 400 bucks that is a 50% Duty Cycle unit. both made in the USA.
http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/ingersoll-rand-5-hp-air-compressor-60-gal?cm_vc=-10005 (http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/ingersoll-rand-5-hp-air-compressor-60-gal?cm_vc=-10005)
http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/ingersoll-rand-5-hp-air-compressor-60-gal?cm_vc=-10005 (http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/ingersoll-rand-5-hp-air-compressor-60-gal?cm_vc=-10005)
The ones you listed are only single stage. You've said yours is a 175psi unit, which would be 2-stage.
These listed would still be a MAJOR improvement over what most are using.
This is the best deal there. A 2-stage 175psi 80 gallon unit for $999 on sale.
http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/ingersoll-rand-5hp-air-compressor-80-gal?cm_vc=-10005 (http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/ingersoll-rand-5hp-air-compressor-80-gal?cm_vc=-10005)
Mike, you said 175 psi/two stage. Not I. I said 220volt, 135-145 max output. It does have two cylinders, but is NOT a 2 stage. You simply cannot argue the point, when you make up the numbers, then argue about them. Geesh! :o
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Nike, I also saw that you said that all you do is apply the silicone and run it. That is NOT the recommended procedure from Tom. It will greatly reduce the life of the unit if the proper procedures are not followed.
On a side note, I took the cf bottle on the Talon/Dor off and remove the valve two days ago. It was saturated with silicone. I mean, a LOT!!! Guess that keeps the barrel well lubed. LOL!!!
Mike, I don't quite understand your agenda. I know you like your SB, and I like mine just fine as well. But there are other units out there. I see no reason to put other units down, especially as you have no first hand experience but merely supposition. Just seems self serving for the sake of an argument.
One area where you completely misunderstood, was heat possible causing detonation with a shoe box is oil is present. You seem to assume we are talking about in the bottle. The danger area is in the tiny amount of room left in the high side cylinder, at the end of the stroke. Tom Kay talks about this on the Shoe Box site, and is the very reason he says NOT to do it! (Same principle of the detonation that will occur in a spring gun, when the piston has reached the end of the tube under force, and high heat). and teh very principle in Diesel engines operate. The shoe box end of chamber gets darn hot! If you don't' believe it, unplug the fan, run it for an hour, and wrap your hand around the end of the cylinder. OUCH!!!
The Altaros does not get hot. (It cools itself). In fact, i will be cooler than room temp at the end of the fill. So no danger from oil in the air supply.
Knife
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Mike, I don't quite understand your agenda. I know you like your SB, and I like mine just fine as well. But there are other units out there. I see no reason to put other units down, especially as you have no first hand experience but merely supposition. Just seems self serving for the sake of an argument.
One area where you completely misunderstood, was heat possible causing detonation with a shoe box is oil is present. You seem to assume we are talking about in the bottle. The danger area is in the tiny amount of room left in the high side cylinder, at the end of the stroke.
The Altaros does not get hot. (It cools itself). In fact, i will be cooler than room temp at the end of the fill. So no danger from oil in the air supply.
Knife
I don't have an agenda. It's simple physics that when you run a compressor near continuously, it gets hot an spews lots of water.
People with smaller compressors were considering the Altaros. Your large compressor runs 50% of the time with it... filling at only 90psi... and a smaller one would run 100%. Anyone with a smaller unit, like most oil-less ones out there, would be better served with the Shoebox.
Heating comes from compression. Diesel Engies don't have to be warmed up to 100+ degrees in order to start. Compressing air to 4500 psi, regardless of the temperature of the unit, provides enough heat to ignite the oil/fuel. Whether one is using a Shoebox or Altaros to do this is irrelevant.
YOU have used your oil sump compressor for YEARS on almost a daily basis with an old Shoebox... and had no problems. Unless there is a MAJOR malfunction with the pump, there won't be a problem... and IF there is a problem, the amount of air/oxygen in one stroke of the Shoebox/Altaros will not be enough to support significant combustion. Dieseling is fairly common in Spring Guns, and it rarely ever hurts anything... and one shot of a spring gun contains FAR more oxygen than one stroke of a Shoebox. Dieseling within a Shoebox is NOT an issue. You will never read about someone blowing up their Shoebox. There's just not enough oxygen in a single stroke to support enough combustion to cause a significant problem.
It comes down to what I've said from the beginning... The Altaros uses the first stage compressor to both RUN the motorless Altaros, AND provided the first stage air. If using a small compressor, it will run continuously, it will produce a ton of moisture, and take forever to fill a tank. If a person has a small compressor, they are better off with a Shoebox. If they have a large, commercial style compressor, they have the capacity to choose the Altaros.
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We really have to put in perspective what is considered a small compressor and go from there.
Is mine considered small. ? OR Midsize at 30 gallon 175 psi max pressure 5.1 cfm at 90 psi?
If you consider my compressor small to midsize and my Altaros runs fine and love it.. For the price you cannot beat the Altaros even if you have a smaller compressor.
In my definition of small compressor is anything under a 20 gallon tank. That's my personal opinion though.
And would be difficult unless you have the cfm and can run a 100% duty cycle which most smaller compressors cant.
Altaros $ 600 plus $100 bucks of water seperators and dessicant.
Freedom Shoebox is $1100
Thought there was a cheaper version that's just what I found on pyramid air.
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As I tried to explain on the previous page, a small compressor won't "produce" any more moisture than a large one, however if you don't cool the air before feeding it to your high pressure compressor (no matter what brand it is) the hot air will contain more moisture.... Also, the tank size has nothing to do with the CFM capacity of the shop compressor.... The Altaros fill rate will be proportional to the CFM of your shop compressor, it doesn't matter if it has a 6 gallon tank or a 60 gallon.... If you don't understand that, please go back and read it again....
Bob
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Fact is even if you have a compressor like mine oiless 5.1 cfm at 90 psi 30 gallon 175 psi you can run the Altaros . I dont want people thinking they need an industrial sized compressor to run the Altaros. Though alot slower.
CFM is king And you want the biggest you can afford IF you want fast fills.
The bigger the tank the longer the runtime before the compressor kicks on important to keep things a cooler.
Im about 7 minutes on and 7 minutes off and yes lots of moisture is produced and planned ahead of time on my setup including a diablo filter after the Altaros & 2 stage dessicant and water seperators before it goes into the Altaros.
I think hope MOST know cfm is all about how much your compressor setup can produce not how big your tank is.
And running the compressor motor as little as possible is always something that will aid in less moisture.
I'm no expert but it runs great.
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No bickering...
http://www.harborfreight.com/compressed-air-dryer-40211.html (http://www.harborfreight.com/compressed-air-dryer-40211.html)
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No bickering...
http://www.harborfreight.com/compressed-air-dryer-40211.html (http://www.harborfreight.com/compressed-air-dryer-40211.html)
I was thinking about something like this yesterday. A bunch of coiled copper tubing with a trap at the bottom in a mini fridge. Like a moonshine still I've seen on tv ;D
Taso
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Wow same price as a Alpha Filter.
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At any time one can download a 20% off Harbor Freight coupon. My buddy had this in use with his plasma cutter which worked well enough but doubt it'll completely strip the moisture for our intended purpose. Perhaps it would. But of course now we're getting once again into the price range of the Omega. Well, sort of.
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Hummm--I have a mini fridge in my shop, that I haven't' plugged in for years now! LOL
Knife
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Here are some stats and numbers from my small home compressor setup with an Altaros booster.
Yes, it runs slow but I don't mind waiting as long as it's quiet and low maintenance.
super quiet CALIFORNIA AIR TOOLS 5510SE
- 2.20 CFM @ 90 PSI
- 5.5 Gallon Tank
- 60 decibels
- added 2 fans always switch on when boosting (1 fan on each cylinder head)
- long hose between compressor and booster with extra separator and desiccant filter just before booster
I set the output pressure from air compressor to 90 psi and set the Altaros air flow valve to run compressor 60 seconds on, then 100 seconds off.
(http://hit-depot.rcreations.com/temp/20161029_185658.jpg)
I filled 2 small tanks in succession:
- 13ci/3000 ninja tank from 1500psi to 3000psi: took 29min
- 68ci/4500 tank from 1500psi to 3000psi: took 2hr 20min
(http://hit-depot.rcreations.com/temp/20161029_185709.jpg)
Flir camera showed temperature of air compressor motor coils reached 65 celcius, cylinder head was 40 celcius, motor housing 50 celcius
Highest temp on Altaros piston reached 28 celcius (nearest output line), highest temp spot was at controller board near 12v power plug (50 celcius, maybe a transistor or regulator, painted blank so didn't look future)
ambient temp was 18 celcius
The extra harbor freight desiccant filter turned from blue to pink with the 2 fill ups. Altaros internal desiccant filter is still orange (that one goes from orange to green).
will report numbers for my 80cf scuba tank once it gets low...
Overall, I'm happy with the setup. I went with Altaros because it's design was unique, low maintenance, and price was right. The CA air compressor was nice too and if I had to wear one out, it'd be the compressor cause it's much cheaper (but it didn't seem to be stressed temp wise even after the 3 hour fill up session). This compressor has dual pistons and runs at slower RPM targeted for longer duty cycle and lower noise.
Hope it helps someone...
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excellen info n4spd
thank you
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Great alternate report, Robert. Thank you. Will you attempt a small 4.5k fill?
I love that you broke out the FLIR.
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Thanks for sharing your results Robert, the fill times are quicker than I would have guessed with your compressor's CFM output, and I look forward to the time for your Scuba tank fill.
The fans matched up perfect for the compressor heads, and I would consider using a synthetic oil also. I just changed the oil in my compressor, (first time in 9 years lol) using:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0008GLW9Y/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0008GLW9Y/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
Flir Camera is perfect for temp readings and C converted to F reading are:
compressor motor coils 149F
cylinder head 140F
motor housing 122F
Altaros piston 82.4F
controller board 122F
ambient temp 64F
I don't know much about air compressors, but the temperatures do not seem that extreme and now you have a baseline for future readings.
Could you expand a little more on your filter setup, are you only using filters that is shown? Does the what looks like a water oil separator before the HF filter remove much water?
I was having second thoughts on the Altaros booster, and your post definitely helps me thanks Robert.
My air compressor in is my Barn, and living in MI we get pretty cold temperatures, anyone know how this would effect my compressor, Altaros booster and filing etc? Thanks
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My air compressor in is my Barn, and living in MI we get pretty cold temperatures, anyone know how this would effect my compressor, Altaros booster and filing etc? Thanks
The warmer air is, the more moisture it will hold... so cold air is GOOD.
Many dryers use cooling to remove the moisture.
I clicked on some videos of those California compressors. It's amazing how quiet they are compared to normal oilless units. There is a video on Amazon comparing the two.
https://www.amazon.com/California-Air-Tools-5510SE-5-5-Gallon/dp/B00NOSCDPA (https://www.amazon.com/California-Air-Tools-5510SE-5-5-Gallon/dp/B00NOSCDPA)
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I was unsure if the ambient temp was 30 in my barn and my compressor was 150 if that would create a condensation condition that would effect my fill?
Agreed, the CC are super quiet, thats the only thing I do not like about my compressor. Would having a compressor inside my home in a controlled environment be a better setup?
Lol, just noticed the 5510 is oiless, never mind the synthetic oil recommendation Robert :)
Looks like a nice unit and even the aluminum tank version is cheap.
The Rolair looks like a nice unit for 400 bucks with a 100% duty rate.
https://www.amazon.com/Rolair-VT25BIG-Compressor-Overload-Protection/dp/B004PZABIC/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1477869031&sr=8-3&keywords=rolair+compressor (https://www.amazon.com/Rolair-VT25BIG-Compressor-Overload-Protection/dp/B004PZABIC/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1477869031&sr=8-3&keywords=rolair+compressor)
But I am afraid it will be very loud like my Makita.
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The Rolair looks like a nice unit for 400 bucks with a 100% duty rate.
https://www.amazon.com/Rolair-VT25BIG-Compressor-Overload-Protection/dp/B004PZABIC/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1477869031&sr=8-3&keywords=rolair+compressor (https://www.amazon.com/Rolair-VT25BIG-Compressor-Overload-Protection/dp/B004PZABIC/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1477869031&sr=8-3&keywords=rolair+compressor)
But I am afraid it will be very loud like my Makita.
This is the biggest Quiet California unit I could find on Amazon.
15.0 Gallon Steel Tank with Wheels
Powerful 2.0 HP (Rated / Running) Motor
6.40 CFM at 40 PSI 5.30 CFM at 90 PSI
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00QFH5NCM/ref=psdc_9022396011_t3_B00WM1VPKE (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00QFH5NCM/ref=psdc_9022396011_t3_B00WM1VPKE)
And the same thing, but with a vertical tank, and $60 cheaper. (but 10 instead of 15 gal tank)
Powerful 2.0 Hp with Low Amp Draw 14 amps
6.40 CFM at 40 PSI & 5.30 CFM at 90 PSI
10 Gallon Air Tank with Wheels
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0188XBTLY/ref=psdc_9022396011_t1_B00QFH5NCM (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0188XBTLY/ref=psdc_9022396011_t1_B00QFH5NCM)
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The Rolair looks like a nice unit for 400 bucks with a 100% duty rate.
https://www.amazon.com/Rolair-VT25BIG-Compressor-Overload-Protection/dp/B004PZABIC/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1477869031&sr=8-3&keywords=rolair+compressor (https://www.amazon.com/Rolair-VT25BIG-Compressor-Overload-Protection/dp/B004PZABIC/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1477869031&sr=8-3&keywords=rolair+compressor)
But I am afraid it will be very loud like my Makita.
This is the biggest Quiet California unit I could find on Amazon.
15.0 Gallon Steel Tank with Wheels
Powerful 2.0 HP (Rated / Running) Motor
6.40 CFM at 40 PSI 5.30 CFM at 90 PSI
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00QFH5NCM/ref=psdc_9022396011_t3_B00WM1VPKE (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00QFH5NCM/ref=psdc_9022396011_t3_B00WM1VPKE)
And the same thing, but with a vertical tank, and $60 cheaper. (but 10 instead of 15 gal tank)
Powerful 2.0 Hp with Low Amp Draw 14 amps
6.40 CFM at 40 PSI & 5.30 CFM at 90 PSI
10 Gallon Air Tank with Wheels
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0188XBTLY/ref=psdc_9022396011_t1_B00QFH5NCM (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0188XBTLY/ref=psdc_9022396011_t1_B00QFH5NCM)
What would be the opinion re. using either one of these California models with an Altaros? Would it take forever topping off a 74 cu. ft. tank from say 2700-4500 psi? Thanks!
Ed
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GREAT info n4spd
I was totally considering those California compressors reading reviews etc. The main thing is how quiet they are that's what you are paying for.
If you dont mind compressors that are alot louder you will get more cfm & bigger tank for about the same price or less. That was ultimately my decision wanted as much flow with at least 30 gallon tank under $300.
My Husky is pretty loud and I even got the quiet model lol.
Those California compressors are so quiet ! Probably can even run that baby at night. I couldnt do that with mine... Wife would probably throw me and the compressor outside lol.
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I personally wouldn't run a setup like this overnight as I slept. Maybe after awhile I would. I'd have to build faith in the product first. Probably not even then.
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If your air compressor is too loud, try hooking a 3/4" hose to the intake if possible. Make the hose about 4' long and put a filter at the end. I did this on my Shelton compressor and it knocked off half of the noise. It went from having to wear ear protection to choosing to wear it. Helps to have a curve in the hose. Regards, Tom
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Will post more numbers when I do them!
Great alternate report, Robert. Thank you. Will you attempt a small 4.5k fill?
I love that you broke out the FLIR.
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The stocks separator and filter are still in the toolbox. I just added an additional separator and desiccant filter just before the toolbox.
They are both cheap HF units. The HF desiccant filter is nice because I can see the color change in the window whereas the stock unit has no window so needs to be opened to check.
The long line between the compressor and booster also seems to help because it cools the air.
The compressor is only 150 shipped via amazon.
CA air tools also sells a 10 gallon external tank via amazon for 50 shipped which is a great deal because their tank comes with a gauge and a cable/hose that you can use to charge and discharge (I has also got this tank but am not using it for boosting).
Could you expand a little more on your filter setup, are you only using filters that is shown? Does the what looks like a water oil separator before the HF filter remove much water?
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yah, I have not run it overnight or un-moniitored yet.
I just put a small wifi camera on the ground next to it to monitor gauges/desiccant color remotely.
It'll stop running if it's power supply is disconnected so you can put it on a remote controlled outlet to boot.
ps. not to say it's not stable, it so far has stopped at 3k (it actually slows down considerably before stopping so I just stop it when gauges look good by eye)
I personally wouldn't run a setup like this overnight as I slept. Maybe after awhile I would. I'd have to build faith in the product first. Probably not even then.
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I take it that every one here has space issues. Why else would every one want portable, job site compressors. Mainly designed for use on job sites, such as running nail guns.
A true, upright, is not very expensive, and has a large increase if cfm of air. I looked at the campbell hausfeld while picking up a filter for my ingersoll rand, and it was just a shade over 400. bucks before any sale, or coupon price.
Yes, it is bigger, but sets in the corner of a garage just fine, and is quieter than most portables. Especially most oil less units. With over double the CFM, which will in turn, greatly cut the fill time.
Knife
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Is that unit also oil less?
I am not space constrained, but if using a $200 unit takes twice as long and is safer I would do that. Now it if safety is a wash and the unit is 4+ times faster than maybe I would consider it. I hand pump now and do consider getting a compressor every once in a while, but I probably need the exercise more than anything.
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I have space problems, but also concerned with the high humidity in my barn. I am afraid I would have to wait for the perfect low humidity day to fill? If I had a compressor inside my house I would have more control over the fill environment. I thought the oil less compressors are the quiet compressors and the oil filled compressors like my Makita are the loud ones?
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I have space problems, but also concerned with the high humidity in my barn. I am afraid I would have to wait for the perfect low humidity day to fill? If I had a compressor inside my house I would have more control over the fill environment. I thought the oil less compressors are the quiet compressors and the oil filled compressors like my Makita are the loud ones?
Most oil-less compressors are VERY LOUD, and make an exceptionally annoying sound. Conventional, belt driven compressors are not nearly as noisy as the conventional oil-less counterparts.
The only glaring exceptions, are the California Compressors linked in the last page or two of this thread. These oil-less compressors are VERY quiet. They just aren't high volume. One very patient member here was able to make their small 1hp unit work. They also sell a 2hp model (also linked in this thread) that would be much better... The 2hp model is not a bad choice, especially if you have to fill inside.
If there is room for a larger, stationary compressor... such as the Ingersol Rand units linked earlier in this thread... these will provide FAR more airflow. A 240V 2-stage conventional unit would be the BEST for driving the Altaros... and would allow it to work to it's full speed and potential with the least moisture issues.
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Generally speaking it's easy to just convince yourself that any shop compressor that's belt-driven (oil lubed) will be quieter than what the industry calls "oiless", save for the California Air type of oiless compressors of which I have but was sold under the GMC brand name.
The poster who used his California Air compressor to fill his guppy has reinvigorated my desire to purchase the Altaros after I had begun to drift away from doing so. I'd really love to hear about the run times to 4,500 psi, though.
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I really need to go through this thread again but I had an idea for us who have small non industrial compressors. ;D
Since warm air can hold more moisture, what if instead of going for the quickest fill times we go for the slowest? If I understand the Altaros website information the minimum pressure required for the booster to work is 90 psi.
I have posted a picture of my compressor specs so I will use those as an example.
I don't know the exact turn on and off pressure points for my compressor but lets just use 125 psi for turn off and 90 psi for turn on. If I was to regulate the compressor output pressure to the Altaros' minimum input of 90 psi would this give me the best setup for keeping my first stage air the coolest?
This is not to avoid using water separators and desiccant. This is to just have dryer air to begin with.
I would also like to add that my setup would be in a detached garage. I don't think there would be enough noise to affect neighbors but I could probably muffle the compressor noise if I had too. I have heard it kick on when I was outside but I've never heard it from inside the house.
At this rate, what time do you estimate a 30 minute scba cylinder to fill from empty to 4500 psi and from 3000 to 4500 psi?
Is this even doable?
I will try to re read this entire thread when I get home from work today.
Thanks,
Taso
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I believe the minimum psi is 72, or 5 bar.
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Yes, 5 Bar min. But the obvious thing being over looked here, is the volume. You need to be thinking of starting at least 5 cfm, The little 2 to 2.5 units will simply be spinning their wheels.
It takes a balance of PSI and CFM to reach decent results.
Knife
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I'm thinking real hard about getting one of these. The fill rate calculations on the Altaros website give me a headache. My compressor's specs are 6.5 hp peak 135 psi max, 10.2 cfm @ 90 psi with a 60 gallon tank. Do any of you that own one have a similar compressor? I would love to know what to expect as far as fill rates go. I know there has been a lot of talk about needing a two stage comp and I'm sure that would be the ideal setup, but I'm not going to be buying a new one anytime soon. Any info would be appreciated.
Thanks
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Your CFM is pretty high I'm pretty sure you will be close maybe little less then KnifeMaker filling times which are awesome.
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Chris, what are you driving yours with? And are you happy with it?
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I love mine but I'm in no hurry to fill either.
I got my specs earlier in the thread with complete details.
I made my own dessicant setup check out my posts.
Just got my .25 Wildcat so going to be using up all my air 8)
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I'm thinking real hard about getting one of these. The fill rate calculations on the Altaros website give me a headache. My compressor's specs are 6.5 hp peak 135 psi max, 10.2 cfm @ 90 psi with a 60 gallon tank. Do any of you that own one have a similar compressor? I would love to know what to expect as far as fill rates go. I know there has been a lot of talk about needing a two stage comp and I'm sure that would be the ideal setup, but I'm not going to be buying a new one anytime soon. Any info would be appreciated.
Thanks
Sounds about perfect to me Sir! We are only 1 CFM apart. Doubt any difference could be seen.
There is only "One" person here that has said that a 2 stage compressor is required. (Also for whatever reason claimed that I have a 2 stage, which I don't) He is apparently a rather new shoe box owner, and in love with it. No problem with that, but like many folks, he seems to only be happy with it if he can put down whatever anyone else has. He does not own an Altaros, Never Seen an Altaros, but is completely convinced that it is basically worthless. Mostly because it is a booster pump. Not a Compressor.
Shssss---He has NO Idea his Shoe Box is a motor driven booster pump. LOL!!! ;D
Read this entire thread. I have posted times very close to what you will get with your set-up! ;) 8)
Knife
Knife
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Thanks guys
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Sounds about perfect to me Sir! We are only 1 CFM apart. Doubt any difference could be seen.
There is only "One" person here that has said that a 2 stage compressor is required. (Also for whatever reason claimed that I have a 2 stage, which I don't) He is apparently a rather new shoe box owner, and in love with it. No problem with that, but like many folks, he seems to only be happy with it if he can put down whatever anyone else has. He does not own an Altaros, Never Seen an Altaros, but is completely convinced that it is basically worthless. Mostly because it is a booster pump. Not a Compressor.
Shssss---He has NO Idea his Shoe Box is a motor driven booster pump. LOL!!! ;D
Read this entire thread. I have posted times very close to what you will get with your set-up! ;) 8)
Knife
You're misguided... and are showing your true colors and personality.
I said a 240V 2-stage unit would be ideal for the Altaros, as the compressor not only has to provide the first stage of air, but also has to drive the motorless unit. Driving the unit takes a LOT more air than the first stage does... so to do the Altaros justice, and not run the first stage compressor to death, you'll need a commercial style compressor, or go through a routine which involves turning a smaller first stage compressor on and off to let it rest, and keep it from getting hot.
CAN a smaller compressor be used? Yes.
Will you have to take steps to make sure it doesn't burn itself up running 100% of the time? Yes.
Will you have to take steps to control moisture from it running so much, and getting hot? Yes.
Will it fill any faster than a Shoebox with a small compressor? No. Fill times will be slower, as the first stage compressor has to both provide the first stage of air, AND run the motorless Altaros.
When it comes to the Altaros... The bigger the compressor, the better.
Can it be run with a smaller unit? Yes.. but you need to do your homework to guide against the first stage compressor not getting too hot, take extra steps to deal with the moisture, and not be in a hurry.
I'm not a Shoebox 'fanboy'. I have one, and it works great. Just set it, and forget it. Electronic switch shuts it off automatically.
If you don't have a larger compressor, a F8 or F10 is definitely your best bet over the Altaros. If you have a large compressor, the Altaros is a less expensive option.
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Mike, you have stated repeatedly that KnifeMaker has a two stage compressor. Well, I don't. It is also NOT a commercial compressor as you claimed. You've been pushing this stick for a while now. Why?
It does Not run Full Time, and is Not overheating. And the fill times are substantially Faster than the Shoe Box. Period!!!
You also claim that you don't do or need to do any of the ritual I go thru when using a Shoe Box. Which is fine for your personal use. But not for a long life for it. YOu are NOT following the recommended procedures put forth by Shoe Box company.
I can tell you right now. Keep skipping the lub recommendations in order to save time using your shoe box, and she is going to live a much shorter life.
And for the record, It is Tom Kay, (Maker of the Shoe Box Compressors) that is saying that you are not to use a non oilless compressor. If there is a problem with your not following company recommendations, it's on you.
You totally missed how and where the problem can potentially occur.
Seems you will bend over backwards to prevent following instructions or common wisdom. Which I have no problem with what so ever. When used for your own personal purposes. But you continue to put out opinion and conjecture for all others to follow. With NO practical experience on the subject whatsoever.
Knife
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Mike, you have stated repeatedly that KnifeMaker has a two stage compressor. Well, I don't. It is also NOT a commercial compressor as you claimed. You've been pushing this stick for a while now. Why?
It does Not run Full Time, and is Not overheating. And the fill times are substantially Faster than the Shoe Box. Period!!!
You also claim that you don't do or need to do any of the ritual I go thru when using a Shoe Box. Which is fine for your personal use. But not for a long life for it. YOu are NOT following the recommended procedures put forth by Shoe Box company.
I can tell you right now. Keep skipping the lub recommendations in order to save time using your shoe box, and she is going to live a much shorter life.
And for the record, It is Tom Kay, (Maker of the Shoe Box Compressors) that is saying that you are not to use a non oilless compressor. If there is a problem with your not following company recommendations, it's on you.
You totally missed how and where the problem can potentially occur.
Seems you will bend over backwards to prevent following instructions or common wisdom. Which I have no problem with what so ever. When used for your own personal purposes. But you continue to put out opinion and conjecture for all others to follow. With NO practical experience on the subject whatsoever.
Knife
Yours is a "Commercial Style" compressor... as in 60-80 gallon tank and 240V motor.
You have stated that your compressor operates at about a 50% run time.
With a commercial style compressor like yours, one would expect faster run times than a Shoebox.
When using a small compressor with an Altaros, it will be slower than a Shoebox, and there will be a lot more moisture to deal with, as it will want to run constantly, unless measures are taken to allow it to rest.
There is no ritual to using my Shoebox. It has the wicks for the 1000cst (80W) Silicone oil. I've also added reservoirs, as was detailed here. Set it, and forget it. You have an old chain drive unit that is exceptionally slow, and has no such features. The Shoebox units have been upgraded many, many times since your model came out.
As for using an oil-less compressor with the Shoebox... You, yourself have admitted to using a conventional (oil type pump) on a DAILY BASIS for years, ever since you've owned it.
There is no difference between compressing air to 4500 psi with the Shoebox, or with the Altaros. If you can use a conventional (oil based pump) with one, you can use it with the other.
You will NEVER hear a story about one of these boosters exploding. A diesel engine fires from the heat of compression. It compresses the air (heating it) then fuel is injected, and it burns. There is simply not enough oxygen in one stroke of either of these boosters to burn enough fuel to cause a problem. If it WAS dieseling, you'd probably never even know it.
When using a small, oil-less compressor, the Shoebox is a better fit if you can afford it.
When using a larger, commercial style compressor, the Altaros is another option.
People will find ways to make the Altaros work with a smaller first stage compressor. It's just going to require coming up with a way to allow the compressor to rest enough, so it doesn't get hot... and diligence will need to be provided in regards to moisture control.
It IS possible to use a small compressor with the Altaros, but one has to do their homework. Just keep in mind that the Altaros is motorless, so the first stage compressor needs to both supply the first stage air, AND drive the unit (which takes more air than the first stage does)... so simple physics says it's going to require a larger compressor than a Shoebox.
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So I'd like to hear more from Dairyboy about his first-hand experiences with the Altaros, but it looks like he's gone.
Pretty sad, this thread is 11 pages long and it's mostly two guys arguing.
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For the sake of information-sharing, I think discussion of individual compressor setups should be limited to stating specs of complete setup (compressor, line lengths, filters, voodoo dolls, avg ambient temps and humidity, etc.), and associated fill-times and specifics of booster pumps used to fill tanks (tank size, start/stop psi, etc.).
There's some good information buried in the noise; maybe old posts in this thread should be cleaned out and edited to remove bickering?
So I'd like to hear more from Dairyboy about his first-hand experiences with the Altaros, but it looks like he's gone.
Pretty sad, this thread is 11 pages long and it's mostly two guys arguing.
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I just topped up my Great White (88 CF) tank tonight from 3100 psi to 4500 with my Freedom 8.... It took 2 hrs. 45 min. which works out to 500 psi / hr.... The shop compressor is a Porter Cable 6 gal. Oilless pancake, with the output regulator set to 120 psi.... Every 9 minutes it turns on for 30 seconds.... I have an additional 2 gal. tank mounted downstream of 25 ft. of coiled air hose and a water trap, and then two small dessicant filters between that and my ShoeBox.... The first dessicant, and half the second were pink at the end of the fill....
I know it's not an Altaros, but I thought you guys would like these numbers for comparison purposes.... HTHs....
Bob
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Thanks Bob. It helps remind others there are always other options out there. Still liking what's been said about the Altaros thus far.
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That's pretty quick Bob, I wonder how much faster the F10 is.
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I just topped up my Great White (88 CF) tank tonight from 3100 psi to 4500 with my Freedom 8.... It took 2 hrs. 45 min. which works out to 500 psi / hr.... The shop compressor is a Porter Cable 6 gal. Oilless pancake, with the output regulator set to 120 psi.... Every 9 minutes it turns on for 30 seconds.... I have an additional 2 gal. tank mounted downstream of 25 ft. of coiled air hose and a water trap, and then two small dessicant filters between that and my ShoeBox.... The first dessicant, and half the second were pink at the end of the fill....
I know it's not an Altaros, but I thought you guys would like these numbers for comparison purposes.... HTHs....
Bob
That's right on the Money Bob! I know nothing about the latest F-10, or its numbers. But would like too. Any idea how it differs?
I'm getting apx 850 in the 88 scba with th4e Altaros now. I am extremely satisfied with it. :D
Knife
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I saw an up right at HF today with two cylinders, but was unable to find out at the time if it is a single or two stage compressor.
It had impressive numbers. And with the typical 20% discount there, it comes in at $636.00.
Next time I'm there, I will make a point of getting the specs.
(I had just left day surgery a few minutes earlier, and was a hurry to get what I needed and head for home)!
Knife
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If I'm not mistaken, you can't use the 20% coupon on compressors.
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If I'm not mistaken, you can't use the 20% coupon on compressors.
+1
Yeah, it's in the fine print. :(
Ed
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Well GRRRRR! Was just a thought.
With the full cost of their three piston unit, or even the Campbell Hausfeld unit at Tractor supply, added to the Altaros, you have a pump system that is faster than the Omega, or any shoe Box, from slightly less cost, to not much more. Unless you simply have to have a portable unit, why in heck use a less efficient portable oilless. The uprights will perform much better with these units.
It is easier to rebuild than the shoe Box, and massively easier than the Omega, with a much longer time between builds. And can still be mated with a good upright for less than either. ( Shoe Box 10)
Altaros is claiming an average time before first build to be apx. Two Years at my almost daily use when I talked to them. We'll see, but so far, very impressive. It's unreal how cool the Altaros runs. I was shocked that is was cooler than room temp the full time while pumping. Who of us have ever seen such a thing. And with NO fan on it! and with the box it is in, closed! :o
They have suggested that I remove the regulator on my compressor for using the Altaros, and letting the full pressure of the pump do its thing. so I will re plumb the compressor out jput today.
I have been getting over 800 psi per hour in to an 88 cf bottle, (closer to 900 psi per hour), using an old reg that has been on the compressor for years. What I didn't realise was that although I had it set higher, it was only reaching 90 psi. Without it, the fill will be starting at 135 psi, and if I can find the proper directions, I will try to raise the cut off to 145, and cut on from 90 to 110 cfm. This should push the Altaros to well over 1000 psi per hour.
My older Compressor is a 11.2 @ 90 psi unit. the same model now is 15 cfm at 90 psi. would be nice to have that one!!!
Knife
Knife
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How long did it take for you guys to receive your Altaros boosters
after ordering and which shipping method did you use?
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So I'd like to hear more from Dairyboy about his first-hand experiences with the Altaros, but it looks like he's gone.
Pretty sad, this thread is 11 pages long and it's mostly two guys arguing.
Hey there guys! Sorry yeah haven't been following it much as it's been mainly arguing. So I used it again a week or so ago and worked very well again. I love being able to have my own source of air when I want it. I do think I'm going to add an extra water separator and dessicant just to be safe but so far as I can tell it's dry air none of my guns have any form of moisture in them. Yes I would know I used to hand pump and regularly tore them down to clean them.
How long did it take for you guys to receive your Altaros boosters
after ordering and which shipping method did you use?
I got mine 6 days after ordering and I used the Czech Post $89 or something like that
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Knife, I'm patiently waiting to see how it performs after you omit the reg. I have an older Husky upright 220 comp that is rated one cfm @ 90 under yours, mine would cut off at 135 and cut on at 90. I wanted to increase the cut on psi so I cranked down on the adjusting nut about 3 1/2 turns and it cuts on at 105 now but what surprised me is that it cuts off now at 150. I didn't adjust the cut off at all, go figure! I haven't ordered an Altaros yet but I'm close.
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Mine took about 9 days to arrive
Scuba for you buying the Altaros is a no brainer you got a really nice compressor able to push the Altaros nicely. Even with 100 psi but full cfm you will get killer fill time.
Just plan out how you will dry your Air and golden. 8)
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Yeah, I think you're right. I've been shooting nitrogen, and I really like it, but the place where I get it from is making noise about the price going up. I really like the idea of being self sufficient. The scuba shop I use will only fill to 3000, so I'm thinking it's time. The Altaros really looks to be well made and all of you seem to be happy with yours. The design is ingenious and the price is really cheap for what you are getting.
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Jeeper;
Altaros themselves suggest the cheaper Check Air Post, which is also the cheapest option. As stated, this option is 89. U.S.D.
I hope to play with the adjustments, and removing the reg Friday. I had minor back surgery Wed. and just haven't felt like doing the work yet. I'm a wussy, and don't like the pain! ;D
I do need to read up on the adjustments again. Sounds like a real winner with the Husky! Congrats!!!
Mine took three days to the U.S., one day in customs and one day in uspost. So 7 days to delivery. And I sweated it out each and every day! I could never be a Doctor. I have virtually no patients. LOL!! But what a fantastic early Christmas!
We had one somewhat unhappy customer over on the TAG. He was wanting to send it back! LOL, he forgot to check the tightness of the fitting on the fill hose. gotta Love it as to how quickly one can panic when trying out a new toy for the first time. .
Dairyboy. Sorry for the childish banter. I will ignore any further issues. At least until it is at least someone who has actually seen an Altaros. LOL!!!
I Do apologise for you poor fellows who had to put up with it.
Your humble servant;
Knife
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I just topped up my Great White (88 CF) tank tonight from 3100 psi to 4500 with my Freedom 8.... It took 2 hrs. 45 min. which works out to 500 psi / hr.... The shop compressor is a Porter Cable 6 gal. Oilless pancake, with the output regulator set to 120 psi.... Every 9 minutes it turns on for 30 seconds.... I have an additional 2 gal. tank mounted downstream of 25 ft. of coiled air hose and a water trap, and then two small dessicant filters between that and my ShoeBox.... The first dessicant, and half the second were pink at the end of the fill....
I know it's not an Altaros, but I thought you guys would like these numbers for comparison purposes.... HTHs....
Bob
Thank you for the info Bob.
As you well know, that is one half of the equation though. The CFM at output pressure is the important part of the equation in this instance. Any Idea what it is?
As the Altaros requires volume for best performance. So we would love to compare.
Once again, thank you for your input.
Knife
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I was not suggesting that the Porter Cable pancake is suitable for getting good fills with an Altaros.... I was merely giving numbers for a very typical Freedom 8 setup.... The fact that my shop compressor only runs about 5% of the time shows that the CFM rating is wayyyyyyyyyy more than it needs to be to run a Freedom 8.... It's nice not to have it hammering away all the time, though....
The Altaros' thirst for air is because it needs it to drive the booster.... You can see by how little my compressor runs how small a fraction of that ends up in your tank.... On the other hand, I have two electric motors instead of one....
I did find the specs on the Porter Cable.... It weighs 30 lbs., is oilless, costs $99, shuts off at 150 psi and starts the cycle from 120 psi.... It delivers 2.6 CFM @ 90 psi, so probably only about 2 CFM at 120, which is the pressure I use to feed my Freedom 8.... The "8", BTW means 8 CFH (cubic feet per hour) for the design fill rate of the ShoeBox.... but in fact it does more than that, it is closer to 10 CFH that it can actually deliver into my Great White at 4500 psi....
Bob
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Thanks Bob!
My OLD shoe Box should be called the freedom 2.5 I guess! LOL!!! Never knew the numbers indicated the cfh.
Knife
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Both QV TOM and OLD PRO address what I have tried to explain about the dangers of using an non oil less compressor with a shoe box in the aliexpress compressor thread next to this thread.
I do indeed use a oil lubed compressor to fill the shoebox, but I have three oil separators on it. As do ALL Dive type compressors. They all have at least one. This is because dieseling is possible while compressing air at high pressure. Period!
Knife
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Dairyboy. Sorry for the childish banter. I will ignore any further issues. At least until it is at least someone who has actually seen an Altaros. LOL!!!
Knife
Lol no worries your standing up for the compressor and you have one so you understand what it is I think you have she's alot more light on it than I ever could cause you use it all the time where I've only used mine twice since owning it and still have 4000psi in my tiger shark. Your a much better example of really using the product to test it. I thank you for helping the others out in knowing what it is!!
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So how much is this in US$$? I have a big compressor so it might be time to upgrade from the Shoebox.
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$603 to your door.
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What is your opinion on this? I'm thinking about using this between my comp and the Altaros then putting a high pressure filter between the Altaros and my tank.
http://m.ebay.com/itm/1-2-COMPRESSED-AIR-INLINE-PARTICULATE-FILTER-DESICCANT-DRYER-COALESCING-/171969632663?hash=item280a305997%3Ag%3ADxUAAOSw5VFWH7nG&_trkparms=pageci%253Aaf4888b9-a8fc-11e6-afe4-005056bb187b%257Cparentrq%253A59907b061580a3588b9f4352fffbbe5b%257Ciid%253A1 (http://m.ebay.com/itm/1-2-COMPRESSED-AIR-INLINE-PARTICULATE-FILTER-DESICCANT-DRYER-COALESCING-/171969632663?hash=item280a305997%3Ag%3ADxUAAOSw5VFWH7nG&_trkparms=pageci%253Aaf4888b9-a8fc-11e6-afe4-005056bb187b%257Cparentrq%253A59907b061580a3588b9f4352fffbbe5b%257Ciid%253A1)
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Not sure on that one? I think a couple folks may be using the Wilkerson Filter?:
https://www.grainger.com/product/WILKERSON-Desiccant-Air-Dryer-5Z611 (https://www.grainger.com/product/WILKERSON-Desiccant-Air-Dryer-5Z611)
This Filter was selling on ebay for 100 bucks not too long ago.
It was my understanding a high pressure filter such as the Diablo and Alpha are not necessary with the Altaros?
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It was my understanding a high pressure filter such as the Diablo and Alpha are not necessary with the Altaros?
I'm a firm believer in overkill!
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I really do not know that much about filters, but this one looks impressive, the manufacture claims that it removes 98% of the water:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8JwN0l-_pA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8JwN0l-_pA)
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I watched that video, I can't help but wonder why the air hose is going through the peg board. Makes you think they're up to something.
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Thank you DairyBoy.
Folks, the act of futher compressing air after the standard filters and water sepporators have done their job, will still result in some water. It is simply a function of the fact that the more air is compressed, the more water that will be removed from it.
However, I am getting very little at the moment. (I also run several Oil separators, as I do not use an oil less compressor).
I added the Wilkerson unit a couple of weeks ago, and it is doing a fine job. I will look at the unit sold by Dman over on the Tag in a month or so. I am hearing of problems with the Diablo.
I do know that the (very expensive) unit sold by Joe B. is a very high quality unit, But also cost a bit to maintain. It also has an advantage, as it can maintain pressure after a fill. Something some of the others cannot do.
Knife
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Ive been interested in Altaros booster since seeing on their website. Altaros makes quality products no reason the booster should be different. The only thing that would stop me is they are have no distributors in the USA.
http://www.altaros.cz/en/cms/6-distributors (http://www.altaros.cz/en/cms/6-distributors)
A couple of my buddies use an oil/H20 separator from Dman1114(Jamie). Cost is about 1/3 of the Joe B separator and quality is the same. Dman1114 can be found on the TAG forum or a search in GTA members.
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I realize the high pressure filters need to be under pressure to work properly, thus the reason Joe B. Puts a pressure maintaining valve on the Alpha. That may be nessesary when filling a gun directly or filling a tank from zero but, I will never have need to do either, so when I connect my tank to to fill it and open the valve, the filter will be under pressure, so I see no need to pay the extra money for a PMV. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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You are correct, PMV is not mandatory when filling tanks that are above approx 1500psi.
Marko
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If I do order one of the High Side Filters, it will be from Dman.
As for distributors here, I'm very happy we DON'T have any here. It would make for at least a 75% higher cost for the end Customer, unless it is from you know who. Then it will be double.
No doubt this will happen. I am very glad to be fortunate enough to get one while they are so reasonable.
Am I in trouble for this post?
Knife
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I would like to add that the folks at Altaroshave been very quick to respond to any questions, and ship very fast! I really don't see what a Stateside dealer would benefit us, other than may be a couple days faster receipt.
Now, a little tidbit of info. The SCBA tank valve has a (APX.), 2" tall stem protruding vertically from the valve unit when viewed in the way an SCBA Bottle is worn. All that is necessary to purge any water oppon demand, is simply modify this tube.
If you cut if off even with the base of the valve and counter it lightly, you can purge your cylinder any time. It only takes a few minutes to perform the modification, and after, only a simple puf from the valve, and water is gone!,
Simply hold the SCBA bottle in the proper position for wearing in a Fireman's Pack and quickly open and shut the valve. (While the hose is well secured).
In other words, the bottle has to be positioned "Valve Down" for a few minutes for all moisture to collect in the valve region. With this one quick step, you're golden!
Works best after a good cool down period to allow all the condensation to give optimal results.
Sure cheaper than a High side Filter. No?
That tube is there to prevent any water entering while providing air to the wearer of a fireman's pack. (Apparently, even industrial compressors can give some moisture, With their very expensive setups).
Since we will not be using the SCBA for actual Breathing Air, the precaution of a snorkel in the valve is null and void. But NEVER-EVER use said Tank for breathing air once modified!!!
Knife
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If I do order one of the High Side Filters, it will be from Dman.
As for distributors here, I'm very happy we DON'T have any here. It would make for at least a 75% higher cost for the end Customer, unless it is from you know who. Then it will be double.
No doubt this will happen. I am very glad to be fortunate enough to get one while they are so reasonable.
Am I in trouble for this post?
Knife
My thoughts on were if a problem arose and the unit needed to be sent in for service the shipping cost.
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Just topped off a Ninja tank (similar to a guppy) from 3000-4500 with the Freedom 8.
First stage compressor kicks on at 80 psi, and kicks off at 120.
Fill took 35 minutes.
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If I do order one of the High Side Filters, it will be from Dman.
As for distributors here, I'm very happy we DON'T have any here. It would make for at least a 75% higher cost for the end Customer, unless it is from you know who. Then it will be double.
No doubt this will happen. I am very glad to be fortunate enough to get one while they are so reasonable.
Am I in trouble for this post?
Knife
My thoughts on were if a problem arose and the unit needed to be sent in for service the shipping cost.
This unit is so dog simple, that if there were a problem, these Guys have been so easy to deal with, that more than likely, a simple photo and explanation of the problem would be all it would take for the remedy to be on its way to you.
As the unit is modular, not much can go wrong, that can't be fixed by simply swapping a part. Eazy, Peezy! ;)
Knife
Did I mention it's so simple that a cave man can do it? LOL!!!
There is 2 year full warranty, and about the only thing I can see so far that would ever go wrong, is possibly stripping a thread by being ham handed, or the electronic module going out. Cheap to mail if out of warranty!
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Altaros has a video on YouTube where they are filling a 7L tank from 200 to 300 bar. Can anyone tell me what size tank that is in cubic feet? I've searched and have come up empty. Thanks.
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Altaros has a video on YouTube where they are filling a 7L tank from 200 to 300 bar. Can anyone tell me what size tank that is in cubic feet? I've searched and have come up empty. Thanks.
1 cubic ft = 28.3 liters
1 cubic ft = 1728 cubic inches
7 liters = ______ cubic ft.
7/28.3 = 0.247 cubic feet, or 427 cubic inches
1 Bar = 100 kPa
1atm = 101.3 kPa
1 atm = 14.7 psi
200 Bar x 100 kPa / 101.3 kPa x 14.7 = 2902 psi
300 Bar x 100 kPa / 101.3 kPa x 14.7 = 4353 psi
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Thanks for the reply but I was wondering what the water capacity was. What I'm trying to figure out is, what scba is it closest to it in capacity.
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7l is about 1.85gal
Thanks for the reply but I was wondering what the water capacity was. What I'm trying to figure out is, what scba is it closest to it in capacity.
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Thanks for the reply but I was wondering what the water capacity was. What I'm trying to figure out is, what scba is it closest to it in capacity.
This is from the www.airtanksforsale.com (http://www.airtanksforsale.com) website. It's their Tiger Shark tank. 410 cubic inches, listed as 71 cubic feet.
In the middle is our U.S.A. Made 71 Cu Ft (410 Cu In) Tiger Shark Deluxe. This tank will fill a Marauder from 2000 PSI back up to 3000 PSI about 47 times. 9 Lbs, & Measure under 19" long by 6.5" diameter (sans valve). (See detailed information further below)
IF it's a direct relationship...
410 cubic in = 71 cubic ft
427 cubic in = ?
Cubic ft = (427/410) x 71 = 74 cubic feet
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That is correct, the water volume of a 7 Litre tank is indeed 427 CI.... The common 88 CF SCBA tank has a water volume of 550 CI which is 9 Litres.... The relationship between pressure and volume describe by Boyle's Law break down above 3000 psi.... tanks hold less air at 4500 psi than you would think....
4500 psi is 310 bar.... Using Boyle's Law the 550 CF tank should hold 310 x 550 / 1728 = 98.6 CF.... but in reality it only holds 88 CF.... The 7 L tank, which is 427 CI, would hold 68 CF at 4500 psi....
Bob
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Thanks for the explanation Bob, that's what I was looking for.
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That is correct, the water volume of a 7 Litre tank is indeed 427 CI.... The common 88 CF SCBA tank has a water volume of 550 CI which is 9 Litres.... The relationship between pressure and volume describe by Boyle's Law break down above 3000 psi.... tanks hold less air at 4500 psi than you would think....
4500 psi is 310 bar.... Using Boyle's Law the 550 CF tank should hold 310 x 550 / 1728 = 98.6 CF.... but in reality it only holds 88 CF.... The 7 L tank, which is 427 CI, would hold 68 CF at 4500 psi....
Bob
So, I guess Joe B is using the 'standard' way of rating and comparing these tanks... and you're simply pointing out the flaws in this set standard.
I understand why you state it's less than expected, as Boyle's Law works best at more 'normal' pressures and temperatures...
It just needs pointed out that the person with the original question about capacity was just looking for a means of comparing the 7 liter (427 cubic inch) tank in the video, to what's out there... so it would be most 'comparable' to a tank rated at 74 cubic feet, as advertised.
But thanks for the Boyle's Law clarification. That's a SIGNIFICANT difference in real life capacity!
Nice to know!
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My multipurpose air compressor setup and future Altaros Booster fill station. The final parts came in today and it is complete, just need the Altaros.
Sorry for the crappy pictures.
Edited for info that should have been in original:
Makita 6.5 CFM at 90 PSI Compressor:
https://www.amazon.com/Makita-MAC5200-Big-Bore-Compressor/dp/B0001Q2VPU/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1479504927&sr=8-3&keywords=makita+compressor (https://www.amazon.com/Makita-MAC5200-Big-Bore-Compressor/dp/B0001Q2VPU/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1479504927&sr=8-3&keywords=makita+compressor)
Filters Used:
ARO:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0057D8LII/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s04?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0057D8LII/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s04?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
SMC:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007EX28AG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s02?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007EX28AG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s02?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
Xtremepower:
https://www.amazon.com/XtremepowerUS-Separator-Filter-Seperator-Compressor/dp/B00CGNZBR6/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1479505422&sr=8-14&keywords=air+compressor+filter (https://www.amazon.com/XtremepowerUS-Separator-Filter-Seperator-Compressor/dp/B00CGNZBR6/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1479505422&sr=8-14&keywords=air+compressor+filter)
Motor Guard:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0014DEV6Q/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s03?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0014DEV6Q/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s03?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
Wilkerson:
https://www.grainger.com/product/WILKERSON-Desiccant-Air-Dryer-5Z611 (https://www.grainger.com/product/WILKERSON-Desiccant-Air-Dryer-5Z611)
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For those of us that will be in the market, soon, and who would like to compare the myriad different setups, can you quickly list what everything is?
My multipurpose air compressor setup and future Altaros Booster fill station. The final parts came in today and it is complete, just need the Altaros.
Sorry for the crappy pictures.
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After doing all that, I'll bet it's killing you to wait!
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For those of us that will be in the market, soon, and who would like to compare the myriad different setups, can you quickly list what everything is?
My bad, fixed.
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After doing all that, I'll bet it's killing you to wait!
I was waiting for a Rifle that was ordered months ago, it was delivered today, but Winter starts tomorrow with a forecast of snow. I may wait until spring to order the Altaros, I do not want to order it now and not be able to use it.
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After doing all that, I'll bet it's killing you to wait!
I was waiting for a Rifle that was ordered months ago, it was delivered today, but Winter starts tomorrow with a forecast of snow. I may wait until spring to order the Altaros, I do not want to order it now and not be able to use it.
Yeah, I think you guys in the NW part of the state are supposed to get dumped on tomorrow. :( It was 70 degrees here today and sunny (N. of Flint). We're supposed to get an inch or so tomorrow. YUK!!! Didn't we just get summer? ???
Ed
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Straight Shooter, I think I would possibly re-think the first filter you have listed. It is rated at only , what was it, 49 cfm?, This will drastically cut down on airflow and really slow an Altaros down. This is below the recommended minimum for the unit. (As it would not give the free flow of the 90 psi rating at flow rate).
Remember, the Altaros needs VOLUME even more than pressure to do it's job. It has to be a balancing act. LOL!!!
As to waiting, I watched as the Shoe Box and Omega went up drastically not long after introduction. Withe the Altaros selling for 525. usd before shipping, with its capabilities, I have no doubt it too will go up in short order.
And if one of our typical Stateside Dealers gets ahold of it, much less with exclusive distributor ship, Katie Bar the Door!
Yes, I put myself out there as a Guinea Pig, but I did do a bit of research before plunking down cold hard cash. And must say, that I am very happy I did!
I too, use the same Desiccant filter. (Still sorry I bought it, not knowing it was the only one they had). Rather than using the supplied desiccant beads, I ordered the higher quality, non acidic beads, (Asme as used in the Altaros filter) for it. they are orange, and turn green when needing treating. Don't know what color of green, as none have turned yet.
Harbor freight has a fairly decent Water separator and Oil separator/ Desiccant filter side by side combo for 60+ bucks, which can benefit from their usual 20% discount. (Yea).
Been using one for years now. It is one of three Oil separators I have been using on the shoe box for well over 5 years. May be a little more.
And finally, I age my words and ordered the Hi-side Filter from Dman this week. He is building it this week, and shipping Sat. Still don't know if it is needed with the Altaros, as it compresses at such a low temp. But then again, Can't be too safe! ;)
I will post my finding of build quality, fit and finish, and how she does in the wild!
The reason I use the Altaros so much is My Air Gun is a 200 FPE Mid Bore, that gets shot almost every day. My wife and I are both disabled, and when not going to Doctors or Hospitals for treatment or test, I pass the time shooting and Testing-Testing-Testing. Bullets, Mixes, AG tunes, Optics. I actually test for several Air Gun and accessory companies. As they know I do use the equipment. And use it HARD!
I have three items either here or coming the next few weeks for testing the next few months. Ranging from compressor- filters-new valve designs for Big Bores, LDC's, Bullets and Molds. So it is going to be an interesting next few months. 8)
There are others here that do a lot of testing as well. Particularly, Cedric (Tofazfou), Rifle50, and no doubt others. I really don't know why I have never mentioned it before. Just seem not worth mentioning, other than it comes to bare on this conversation possibly. Or at least hopefully. ;)
Even though it is a Medical Retirement, I have no difficulty finding ways to pass the time. Between Shooting, and Casting for friends and Members here and over on the tag, I stay happily busy! ;)
Knife
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Straight Shooter, I think I would possibly re-think the first filter you have listed. It is rated at only , what was it, 49 cfm?, This will drastically cut down on airflow and really slow an Altaros down. This is below the recommended minimum for the unit. (As it would not give the free flow of the 90 psi rating at flow rate).
Here is the specs on the Motor Guard:
Pipe Size is 1/4 NPT, Nominal Airflow is 20 CFM, Filtration Rating is 5 Micron, Maximum Pressure is 125 PSI
So I guess I need to re engineer my filter setup.
Remember, the Altaros needs VOLUME even more than pressure to do it's job. It has to be a balancing act. LOL!!!
I was unsure if it made a difference but I used all V connectors, I will experiment with using the air keg and possibly running the compressor at 100% duty cycle.
ordered the Hi-side Filter from Dman
Knife could you post a link for more info on this filter? Look forward to your review, thanks.
That's really cool being able to test new products, sounds fun.
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No link for the filter per-say, Go to the talon Air gun form, or TAG, and search Dman. He is a regular member there, and has been for years. We've been into Big Bores there for years. LOL!!!
"D" is manufacturing the filters himself. Every thing I have gotten from him is first rate! 8) With exceptional prices.
Yes, the testing is indeed a lot of fun, and gratifying to help bring new products to market. Especially when you can troubleshoot a concept, and at times make suggestions that make the product better.
Knife
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Well, I finally decided to pull the trigger on the Altaros, it seems that sales have been so good that they are out right now. Parts have been manufactured and sent out for coating. They will email me when they are ready. I just hope they don't push it and end up with sloppy manufacturing like some gun companies we know of!
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Compressor question for the Altaros Booster:
On the Altaros Performance page: http://www.altaros.cz/en/other-accessories/48-altaros-compressor-booster-unit#demoTab4 (http://www.altaros.cz/en/other-accessories/48-altaros-compressor-booster-unit#demoTab4) they list 3 compressors and their specs. This in the one on the bottom of the page:
Driving compressor: Scheppach HC 24
Input power 1,5 kW / 2 HP
1 cylinder
Max pressure 8 bar (116 psi)
Air intake 220 l/min (7.7 cfm)
Realistically measured amount of airflow 125l/min (4.4 cfm)
Load 100% 4,5l/min (0.158 cfm)
Load 65% 2,7l/min (0.095 cfm
My question is, when looking at a compressor to purchase which of these numbers do I compare to the number usually mentioned when looking at specs. One I am considering is the Husky 30 Gal 155 psi '5.3 SCFM @ 90 psi', 1.6 HP.
I know bigger is better, but I have space and noise constraints to consider unfortunately. Just wanting to get an idea of how the Husky compares to the lowest on the Altaros list.
I got the same 'out of stock' message from Altaros this morning. :(
Thanks.
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Yes, the husky will work, "IF the cfm rating is allowing the compressor to run no more than 60% of the time, and off 40 % of ofthe time.
Knife
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Thanks Knife.
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I've been following this thread and think I have the main points but I do have a question for the gurus.
Is there a way to test the output of the booster to determine if the pre-input filters are doing the job (besides the desiccant color).
What I mean is, can I dump air into some container (much like filling an pcp airtube) that can identify water in the system before I actually put it in my gun? Maybe holding the filled cf bottle upside down and opening the valve with the hose pointed at a wall or some similar procedure?
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Hum, don't know. I do know that if the cf bottle is a SCBA there is a two inch pipe in the valve that protuded into the bottle to prevent exactly that. so no, holding it upside down won't work, until the pipe is removed.
It is there to prevent any water entering the breathing line of a fire fighters mask. And they use the bottles up side down. ;)
I removed the tube, and pre purge my bottles in exactly this way. 8) As if there is any water,it will appear as a cloud of mist if cracked open quickly and shut quickly. HOLD the end of the fill line if you do this. !!!!!!!!!!
Knife
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Hum, don't know. I do know that if the cf bottle is a SCBA there is a two inch pipe in the valve that protuded into the bottle to prevent exactly that. so no, holding it upside down won't work, until the pipe is removed......
Knife
Does anyone know if there is a similar pipe in a steel scuba tank or a Benjamin 90ci cf tank?
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Gary, I would not think so. a SCUBA tank isn't used up side down like a SCBA bottle, so a water intake prevention tube would have no reason to be there, as it would not do anything to prevent water intake in the air stream. The Bengi tank, is not a breathing air tank, so again, it would serve no purpose.
Knife
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Gary, I would not think so. a SCUBA tank isn't used up side down like a SCBA bottle, so a water intake prevention tube would have no reason to be there, as it would not do anything to prevent water intake in the air stream. The Bengi tank, is not a breathing air tank, so again, it would serve no purpose.
Knife
Some scuba valves have dip tubes and some don't. The dip tube is there to prevent any particles in the tank from getting into the regulator when the diver is head down. Easy to remove/install.
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Thanks, Now we know! 8)
I blew a seal somewhere in the altaros last night, It is listed in the troubleshooting guide, but not in the exploded drawing. So I have a Email into them for guidance.
It was my fault entirely, as I didn't follow proper shutdown procedures. GRRRRR!. It is not covered in the manual, but is shown on the vids. Sometimes I get tired,and just don't pay attention! ;)
Knife
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Some scuba valves have dip tubes and some don't. The dip tube is there to prevent any particles in the tank from getting into the regulator when the diver is head down. Easy to remove/install.
Ok thanks for the heads up guys.
Knife, keep us posted on the repair options....
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Hiya knife sorry to hear about your pending repair. I just ran mine 3 hrs a few days ago still loving it.. I just added another stage dessicant filter for a total of 3 stages. Super dry air for sure
What is the procedure for shutdown? I just bleed the air and put it away. Also seen all the Altaros vids. But I dont want to miss anything if you got extra info. Thanks Buddy
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Doc, I was so tired when I was shutting down the shop, that I don't have a clue what I did wrong. But I knew it was wrong at the time. LOL!
Went back out the shop a few minutes ago, and found that it had blown the clear line going from low-side to Hi-side. Re installed line, and thought, this should be fine! ;D. Uh, no. meter on side not showing any movement at all. and no air to tank. Found no leaks, so obviously blew a seal somewhere.
The kit comes with a hi-side seal, and requested a full kit with it, but they did not send a low-side seal. Hope like H that it is not the low-side seal. I don't' feel like waiting a week to repair it. And--------I have a new Atlon Argos First Focal Plane 6x24x50mm that is supposed to be here tomorrow. Grrrrrrr!!! Was really looking forward to trying it out.
The compressor filled to 4500 and stopped. I had it set to 4700 psi with their permission. We'll see what happens as customer service is everything. Especially at such long distances. ;).
Knife
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If you find the bad oring you can size it. I think its theoringstore.com just need some calipers to measure it.
Just throwing an idea out there something i would do.
Keep us updated bud... 8)
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Could a high pressure check valve be installed in the Altaros unit to guard against this kind of mishap? Knife any way you could post pics? Hope it is a easy fix.
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Well Guy's, panic averted. LOL!!!
The clear/white tube was partly out of a fitting, as I did not push it in enough. Additionally, the fitting was loose and I tightened it.
In an email back from Michal at Altaros, he said NOT to tighten it over finger tight, and then 1/8th turn more. If over tight, it will prevent the valve from operating.
Michal J. At Altaros answered all questions quickly, and precisely, with clear instructions.
Actual Customer service in this day and age! I very much appreciate such professionalism and common courtesy, in today's world.
Knife
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Your not kidding. Customer service is not what is use to be and it's refreshing to know there are still companies that care. I bought one to test but it's still setting in it's box and will likely stay there a while sadly. It does look well made though
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OLDPRO
Your Getting that same type of reputation your self!
If I were not disabled,(with the usual drain of finances this incurs) I would have been fighting to be one of the very first in line for one of your creations. Had the game plan to get one all figured out, until the Gov'mnt was kind enough to step in and cut benefits! Grrrrr!!!
Knife
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Got an email from Altaros on Tuesday saying the booster was expected to ready to ship in 14 - 17 days.
Got an email this morning (Thursday) saying my booster was ready to ship. They increased the prices by $10 to add a connector. From the included picture it looks like a male foster to male foster that goes in the female foster output hose. Possibly for filling to tanks that have a female foster quick disconnect only.
Paypal invoice received and sent. Looks like I might get to stop pumping before Christmas!
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Me too!
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Congrats Zoo! You're gonna Love it!!!
I use mine near daily, and it runs like a Swiss Watch! 8)
Knife
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Man, this Altaros is like the energizer bunny. It just keeps going and going. I love that I can walk off and it will stop on its own, and if any small leaks are present it will turn its self on and maintain the pressure indefinitely. Just really impressed with this unit. Very Impressed!!!
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The more you post about it, the longer my wait gets😩. Knife, you and Hoot are the main reasons I ordered one. My shooting buddy just got an F 10, but I decided to go with the Altaros, it just seemed like the better option. I've got my pipe loop dryer built and my dman filter will be here tomorrow. My 45 minute Scba has about 4000 in it according to the Joe b gauge, that should last me until it gets here.
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Congrats Sir!
I wish 4000 psi would last me more than maybe 30 min' on the bench. I fill to slightly over 4500 psi, and shoot down to 3800 before filling.This will usually last me for a couple of hours of shooting slowly.
The .257 really likes its air! ;D
For the first time, I can shoot for a couple of hours, attach the bottle to the Altarose, and go in for lunch or breakfast.
With my old Shoe Box, I was done for the day. :(
But with the Altaros, when I come back, I'm back at the bench again! WOO-HOO!!! 8)
No baby sitting, or worrying I missed something. Just eat, relax for a little bit, and enjoy shooting again. No worries. No Stress!!!
Knife
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I received my tracking # today and my dman filter. Man, that thing is nice, it just screams quality. As far as 4000 psi lasting me, I'll just shoot my Air Ranger, it gets 60 shots from a 2700 psi fill.
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I saw an up right at HF today with two cylinders, but was unable to find out at the time if it is a single or two stage compressor.
It had impressive numbers. And with the typical 20% discount there, it comes in at $636.00.
Next time I'm there, I will make a point of getting the specs.
(I had just left day surgery a few minutes earlier, and was a hurry to get what I needed and head for home)!
Knife
It is easy to tell. If both cylinders are the same size it is single stage - if one is larger than the other it is two stage.
My dad was a painter and sandblaster, I got an education on compressors from him. He had me re-ring a 105 cfm two stage when I was seventeen. First stage piston was 10.5 inches in diameter.
Ray
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Knife, I'm patiently waiting to see how it performs after you omit the reg. I have an older Husky upright 220 comp that is rated one cfm @ 90 under yours, mine would cut off at 135 and cut on at 90. I wanted to increase the cut on psi so I cranked down on the adjusting nut about 3 1/2 turns and it cuts on at 105 now but what surprised me is that it cuts off now at 150. I didn't adjust the cut off at all, go figure! I haven't ordered an Altaros yet but I'm close.
The differential, also known as hysteresis is a separate adjustment and in cheaper switches not adjustable. If stop, start pressures are too close together you get too frequent starts which are hard on the motors.
Ray
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Worry for the no reply WildK. Has medical issue, and was down and out for a week+
Thanks for the info on how to tell the dif. in compressors. Love it when I learn something! 8)
Hope t be back to shooting as soon as this freak weather passes in Texas.
The Filter from Dman is S-W-E-E-t!!! ;)
Knife
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Worry for the no reply WildK. Has medical issue, and was down and out for a week+
Thanks for the info on how to tell the dif. in compressors. Love it when I learn something! 8)
Hope t be back to shooting as soon as this freak weather passes in Texas.
The Filter from Dman is S-W-E-E-t!!! ;)
Knife
Is your comment on no reply in reference to Alteros? I've had two emails to them bounce today. Third try to Michel's personal address.
Ray
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Update - third times the charm. Now on the list for approx 14 days.
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Would someone be so nice to post a link on the Dman Filter? I googled but no joy.
Thanks
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On the waiting list too! Can't wait!
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Would someone be so nice to post a link on the Dman Filter? I googled but no joy.
Thanks
http://www.talonairgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=35021 (http://www.talonairgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=35021)
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Thank You Mike!
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Worry for the no reply WildK. Has medical issue, and was down and out for a week+
Thanks for the info on how to tell the dif. in compressors. Love it when I learn something! 8)
Hope t be back to shooting as soon as this freak weather passes in Texas.
The Filter from Dman is S-W-E-E-t!!! ;)
Knife
Is your comment on no reply in reference to Alteros? I've had two emails to them bounce today. Third try to Michel's personal address.
Ray
No Sir. It was my response to MY not being here and responding. As you can read from the response, the Med's were/are kicikingmy but!
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Dmans name is Jaime. (Yep, that is the way they spell it). Think he is Danish iirc
Super nice guy. Very high quality work. Fast shipping. And a very nice product. I was surprised at how heavy it is. Robust for sure! ;)
Knife
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Knife, are you keeping your filter capped when not in use? Mine is on the shelf waiting on the Altaros, so I have no need to uncap it right now. My concern is it being open to the air and it absorbing moisture. I had some beads spill out of my low pressure filter on to my work bench and a couple of days later they had turned pink. With the price of the replacement cartridge for the dman being around $30, I don't want it to die a premature death.
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After seeing the spunk that sprayed out of a alpha filter:
http://www.airgunnation.com/topic/for-those-of-you-that-think-you-dont-need-an-air-dryer-filter/ (http://www.airgunnation.com/topic/for-those-of-you-that-think-you-dont-need-an-air-dryer-filter/)
I will be adding Dman filter to the list.
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Knife, are you keeping your filter capped when not in use? Mine is on the shelf waiting on the Altaros, so I have no need to uncap it right now. My concern is it being open to the air and it absorbing moisture. I had some beads spill out of my low pressure filter on to my work bench and a couple of days later they had turned pink. With the price of the replacement cartridge for the dman being around $30, I don't want it to die a premature death.
With the way I designed my fitting you really don't even need a wrench... just snug the hose end and the bleeder valve by hand.
Then when your done and it's depressurized you can just disassemble and cap it off...
I have hunted high and low to find the best price on the replacement cartridges.... filter techs is the cheapest... at 28$
.
Same cartridge someone else is getting 39$ for....
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That's what I plan on doing. I have to agree with Knife, that filter of yours is top notch.
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Yes, ScubaJ. I use two rubber caps I picked up a an auto parts store to put on the connections. I do the same for the back fitting on the Altaros to seal the low side filters inside. Additionally, the Wilkerson low side Desiccant filter is sealed in the same way. 8)
Jaimes workman ship truly is first rate!!! The quality was impressive. And as many know on the Forums, I'm not easily impressed!
The sheer mass of the unit, along with the very well defined and smooth threading, is, well, "Just superb"! 8) As is every bit of the machining and fit of the Altaros itself. I could "not" be happier with the Altaros Booster and the D'man High Pressure desiccant filter. 8)
Knife
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Well, the Altaros is sitting in customs in New York. Maybe I'll have it sometime next week. It's going to be so nice to go out to my shop and top off my tank. 😊
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Man those waits kill me. If I had wanted patients, I would have become a Doctor!!! ;D
Knife
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It's made it through customs😀. Now, if it just gets here in one piece🙏🏻
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It's made it through customs😀. Now, if it just gets here in one piece🙏🏻
Fingers Crossed! ;) 8)
Knife
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I got my Altaros booster on Saturday. Let's just say the USPS tracking system needs some tweaks. It finally showed up on my doorstep after 5 PM.
I didn't have a compressor and tried to find what I thought would work, but still be 120v and fairly quiet. I ended up with the 30 Gal Husky http://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-30-Gal-155-psi-Ultra-Quiet-Portable-Electric-Air-Compressor-C302H/206695048 (http://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-30-Gal-155-psi-Ultra-Quiet-Portable-Electric-Air-Compressor-C302H/206695048) which has a stated 5.3 SCFM at 90 PSI. It's quiet enough to run in the garage without bothering us in the house.
I left it at factory settings to start off which has a cut off at 155 psi. When I started everything up with the Altaros, I had the output regulator set at 100 psi, and the compressor was not able to fill the tank back up to 155 psi. I found about where it stopped being able to fill (around 130 psi) and tweaked the cut out to that spot. I also dropped the output setting down to the 5 bar (75 psi) minimum for the Altaros.
Now the compressor is able to fill the tank and hit the cutoff in 10 min. However, it blows through the reserve in about 2 minutes. Not the 60/40 desired. Not sure I can do much more with it at this point. I have been running it since about 1 PM today with a couple of breaks to let the compressor cool down.
I have it filling a Tiger Shark tank and it's over 150 bar so far. Seems to do about 10 bar every 15 minutes, so 40 bar per hour. To go from 0 - 300 bar that's going to be about 8 hours run time. After that if I refill at 3000 - 4500 it should only be 2.5 hours. If the same fill rate holds with the increased pressure.
I have already used up one desiccant pack and put in a second. Getting a bit of moisture in the low side filters, but not a ton. I don't have a high-side filter, but the Tiger Shark valve doesn't have a tube so I 'should' be able to invert the tank and blow any water out before using the air. Right?
So looking forward to not pumping. :D
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http://m.homedepot.com/p/Husky-30-Gal-175-psi-High-Performance-Quiet-Portable-Electric-Air-Compressor-C303H/206532808 (http://m.homedepot.com/p/Husky-30-Gal-175-psi-High-Performance-Quiet-Portable-Electric-Air-Compressor-C303H/206532808)
Close to the compressor I have .
You can adjust to any pressure on the compressor itself the higher the better depending in the pressure rating of your dessicant filters.
The little flow control adjustment in the Altaros will determine how much your compressor will turn off and on. I got mine to 50/50 7min on 7 min off.
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Is that flow control you speak of the little knob just past the filter under the lid?
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Looked up the instructions. Now I understand. I still have 100 bar to go to fill my tank. I'll increase the output pressure back up to 90 psi and set my cut in back to normal and play with that flow adjustment to get me closer to 60/40 desired run time. Thanks for the tip and I'm glad I was missing something.
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No problem bud glad to help. Yeah that little knob is critical to the whole setup 8)
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I did some playing around while getting to 300 bar last night. I set everything back to factory on the compressor and set the output regulator to 90psi. Then I adjusted the flow control until I got close to 60/40 run time. Boy the altaros was moving slow.
So I went back to 75 psi output and reduced my cut out pressure back to 130 from the stock 155. Then I was able to open up the flow valve more to get to 60/40. The altaros was moving faster so I'm leaving it like that. It seems to be doing 10 bar every 20 min now.
I have a full tiger tank now and clear but cold weather settling in the area. I've got to shoot down the gun soon just so I can use the tank to fill it up. I really need a pcp pistol I can shoot in the garage. Maybe after Christmas if there is a sale.
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Happy, Happy, Happy; Well, it got here today, and I have to report the same boring &^^& everybody else has been reporting, the "dang" thing works as advertised, don't buy this thing if you want to be disappointed, it ain't going to happen. It arrived very well boxed and unharmed, I hooked it up and it filled my 45 minute-66 cf, scba bottle from 3500 to a little over 4500 in 56 minutes. It stopped at 4300 so I cranked the screw out few turns and brought it out to 4500. The desiccant filter that I have turned from blue to pink almost to the top, it was still blue at the very top but I'm guessing I may need to add another one to insure no moisture gets to the Altaros. There was no sign of water anywhere after my final input, I just want to make sure. Anyone thinking about getting one of these needs to consider the fact that moisture removal is going to be an issue. Get that covered, and you will have a real winner. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, I live in the Deep South and we had an enormously humid day today.
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Yep! Boring is the perfect description all right!
No Fuss, No Muss. It just works, and works, and works. 8)
Do use at least one water separator, (I have three before mine). One at the main compressor, one mixed with an oil/water separator from HF, and finally a cheap one next to a large Wilkerson Desiccant filter using the High Grade Orange beads that turn to green when needing changing. (They do not put out the acid that attacks alu. the way the typical ones do).
Found them on Amazon. They are the same as Altaros filled the included filter in the Altaros box with.
Using this setup, the beads finally turned green in the Wilkerson after around 15 fills in mostly rainy days here in Texas. I opened the Filter in the Altaros, and they were as new. The Wilderson really does a fine job.
A bit of over kill I guess, but I received a High Pressure Side Filter from Dman over on the TAG. Man is it ever a heavy duty unit, with impeccable machining and finish. It uses the same Cartridge Filter as the J.B. The replacement units for it are 29 usd, but with the efficiency of the setup I have, I don't think the cartridge with need replacing often at all. Hopefully, Annually or no more than twice a year. (Keep in mind, that I am shooting a .257 that is an airhog, and I shot around 150 to 200 rounds a day). So I normally fill daily. Far more than most here. So I am really giving the Altaros a "Workout". ;)
Knife
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I'm disappointed. Was told mine should be finished yesterday, ready to ship today and I have not heard back from them yet.
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I know the waiting is tough, I've been there, just hang on and you'll be rewarded. They bumped the price up $10 but they included a male to male foster fitting. I'm sure glad they did, it made it possible for me to hook up my hp filter without having to change the ends of my hose. These things are selling petty fast and I haven't read any negatives yet, I think they have a really good product, time will tell.
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Hmm... We have an old Kellogg-American 321 TVA at the farm shop, and it's powered with a 1.5hp motor. No specs stamped anywhere, so not sure of the cfm, though I can tell it's two-stage, just by looking at it. Anyone with experience know if it's good for the Altaros?
If not, I'm going to buy a shoebox...
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I got the shipping info for mine early this a.m. I'm chomping at the bit to try it out!
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Hmm... We have an old Kellogg-American 321 TVA at the farm shop, and it's powered with a 1.5hp motor. No specs stamped anywhere, so not sure of the cfm, though I can tell it's two-stage, just by looking at it. Anyone with experience know if it's good for the Altaros?
If not, I'm going to buy a shoebox...
1 1/2 Hp on a two stage sounds kind of small. But you never know with old equipment like that, someone could have replaced the motor. Is it 240 or 120? Either way, it's probably adequate, all you have to do adjust the inlet control valve.
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It's a 240, and I found some specs, but because I don't know the RPMs of the motor, I don't know if it's on the low end (5cfm) or the high end (9cfm) of what that pump can do.
Maybe I'll just need to get a really good compressor for the new Huller... Haha.
Hmm... We have an old Kellogg-American 321 TVA at the farm shop, and it's powered with a 1.5hp motor. No specs stamped anywhere, so not sure of the cfm, though I can tell it's two-stage, just by looking at it. Anyone with experience know if it's good for the Altaros?
If not, I'm going to buy a shoebox...
1 1/2 Hp on a two stage sounds kind of small. But you never know with old equipment like that, someone could have replaced the motor. Is it 240 or 120? Either way, it's probably adequate, all you have to do adjust the inlet control valve.
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If it is a 240 two stage, It should be fine. I would assume it would be the 9 cfm on the 240.
I would use a good oil separator on an older unit. Heck, even on a New Unit! ;)
also remember, electric motors are rated differently in the past as to how they are now. Older motors were larger for the hp rating. and they seem to be Much stronger than today's. (Same in lawn mowers these days). Takes a 5 hp to do what a 2 hp did 20 years ago on a mower.
Now, they are rated at non stress load. In days past, the rating was at full stress. Huge difference!!!
I'll bet it will be just fine. A new 1.5 horse would nto run a two stage compressor in most cases. So if it works----- ;) 8)
knife
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How many U.S. dollars are the Altaros boosters going for now?
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This is why I like perspective!
That old compressor runs the biggest air wrench that we use on the trailers and tractors, but I wanted to be sure.
Tell me if my thinking is wrong: I want to have my separators, filters and booster as far down the line, as possible, in order to facilitate the precipitation of everything I don't want. We've probably got close to 200 feet of pipe running around the shop, so I can plug in just about anywhere.
If it is a 240 two stage, It should be fine. I would assume it would be the 9 cfm on the 240.
I would use a good oil separator on an older unit. Heck, even on a New Unit! ;)
also remember, electric motors are rated differently in the past as to how they are now. Older motors were larger for the hp rating. and they seem to be Much stronger than today's. (Same in lawn mowers these days). Takes a 5 hp to do what a 2 hp did 20 years ago on a mower.
Now, they are rated at non stress load. In days past, the rating was at full stress. Huge difference!!!
I'll bet it will be just fine. A new 1.5 horse would nto run a two stage compressor in most cases. So if it works----- ;) 8)
knife
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This is why I like perspective!
That old compressor runs the biggest air wrench that we use on the trailers and tractors, but I wanted to be sure.
Tell me if my thinking is wrong: I want to have my separators, filters and booster as far down the line, as possible, in order to facilitate the precipitation of everything I don't want. We've probably got close to 200 feet of pipe running around the shop, so I can plug in just about anywhere.
If it is a 240 two stage, It should be fine. I would assume it would be the 9 cfm on the 240.
I would use a good oil separator on an older unit. Heck, even on a New Unit! ;)
also remember, electric motors are rated differently in the past as to how they are now. Older motors were larger for the hp rating. and they seem to be Much stronger than today's. (Same in lawn mowers these days). Takes a 5 hp to do what a 2 hp did 20 years ago on a mower.
Now, they are rated at non stress load. In days past, the rating was at full stress. Huge difference!!!
I'll bet it will be just fine. A new 1.5 horse would nto run a two stage compressor in most cases. So if it works----- ;) 8)
knife
Like WildKata said earlier, unless one cylinder is larger than the other it's just a twin cylinder, not a 2 stage.
Also you are correct, I looked up a piping diagram on line a few weeks back and they suggested plumbing the air line so that it left the compressor went down, then horizontal, and back up before your quick connects. That way you have a built in "water collector", in the system. Just make sure you plumb it with a "T" so that you can drain it.
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If it is a 240 two stage, It should be fine. I would assume it would be the 9 cfm on the 240.
I would use a good oil separator on an older unit. Heck, even on a New Unit! ;)
also remember, electric motors are rated differently in the past as to how they are now. Older motors were larger for the hp rating. and they seem to be Much stronger than today's. (Same in lawn mowers these days). Takes a 5 hp to do what a 2 hp did 20 years ago on a mower.
Now, they are rated at non stress load. In days past, the rating was at full stress. Huge difference!!!
I'll bet it will be just fine. A new 1.5 horse would nto run a two stage compressor in most cases. So if it works----- ;) 8)
knife
Exactly.
Electric motors, winches... pretty much ANYTHING mechanical like this was rated FAR differently back then, than it is today.
The existing compressor should do a GREAT job of running the booster. Plus, those old compressors were built to last forever. They run at a lower RPM, and produce less heat and moisture than the newer stuff does.
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How many U.S. dollars are the Altaros boosters going for now?
$613 was my invoiced amount. Included shipping. This also included the price increase for the fitting mentioned earlier.
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This is why I like perspective!
That old compressor runs the biggest air wrench that we use on the trailers and tractors, but I wanted to be sure.
Tell me if my thinking is wrong: I want to have my separators, filters and booster as far down the line, as possible, in order to facilitate the precipitation of everything I don't want. We've probably got close to 200 feet of pipe running around the shop, so I can plug in just about anywhere.
If it is a 240 two stage, It should be fine. I would assume it would be the 9 cfm on the 240.
I would use a good oil separator on an older unit. Heck, even on a New Unit! ;)
also remember, electric motors are rated differently in the past as to how they are now. Older motors were larger for the hp rating. and they seem to be Much stronger than today's. (Same in lawn mowers these days). Takes a 5 hp to do what a 2 hp did 20 years ago on a mower.
Now, they are rated at non stress load. In days past, the rating was at full stress. Huge difference!!!
I'll bet it will be just fine. A new 1.5 horse would not run a two stage compressor in most cases. So if it works----- ;) 8)
knife
My thinking was the same as yours. ;) I did learn that it is good to have one water separator at the main compressor, and the rest of the separators Oil/water/desiccant, very near the Altaros. 8)
Knife
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How many U.S. dollars are the Altaros boosters going for now?
$613 was my invoiced amount. Included shipping. This also included the price increase for the fitting mentioned earlier.
Thanks much!!
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My thinking was the same as yours. ;) I did learn that it is good to have one water separator at the main compressor, and the rest of the separators Oil/water/desiccant, very near the Altaros. 8)
Knife
I have one water filter/separator at the output of the compressor, then 25' section of hose, then the water filter/desiccant combo, then a regulator with a water filter before it goes to the Altaros. The first filter gets the most water. The second filter before the desiccant gets some water. The desiccant certainly gets used, and so far no moisture shows up in the filter in the regulator. Nothing in the Altaros water filter unit either.
The desiccant in the Altaros isn't quite bright orange, but it's not close to green either. That's from filling one Tiger Shark tank from empty.
No high side filter. I did try releasing some air from the tank while upside down and didn't notice any moisture.
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I'm disappointed. Was told mine should be finished yesterday, ready to ship today and I have not heard back from them yet.
Got and paid my invoice today - now on to stage 3 of the 4 stage waiting game.
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Won't be long! We will be filling tanks soon Ray!
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I have my tracking number :D :D :D
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Woo-H00 8)!!
Knife
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It looks like it may not make it before Christmas but it's in the U.S. and through customs!
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has she made it you yet? :D
Knife
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It looks like it may not make it before Christmas but it's in the U.S. and through customs!
How do you tell when it's through customs? Mine says it been given to our postal service,
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It should be through customs if usps has acquired it. Mine made it to town yesterday but I missed the delivery and a signature was required. I picked it up this morning and set it up on my lunch hour. I'm using a large horizontal I.R. shop compressor that is at the shop I work at. I was filling a 66cuft scba bottle from 2700 to 4500. I started out with the initial settings and noticed it seemed like the action was slower than on the video I had seen. I adjusted the small adjuster inside the case to speed things up and was able to run wide open with this shop compressor. I didn't really get a good time on the fill but I'm guessing somewhere around 45-60 minutes with athe least a quarter of that running slow. I did check the temp with an ir temp gun and found nothing in the case above 75 degrees. Tomorrow I will fill a 88cuft from empty to full and try to get a better time as well as more specs on the shop compressor. So far I'm thoroughly impressed!
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Missed my post lady yesterday - got it today. Will open it tonight. Yeah!
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Woo-Hoo!!! :D
I'm stoked for both of you! 8)
Please let us know the time for a fill from the empty bottle.
Make sure that you are NOT using a reg. from the compressor. You want full pressure from that Ingersoll Rand. I used the typical reg at 90 psi, and when I removed the reg, the fill time was cut in half, land the unit ran much faster. I put a fan on the wall to blow on the compressor head of the I.R.. Probably not needed,l as it was cycling just fine and the I.R. is rated at 100% duty cycle if needed.
I have been in constant contact with Michal at Altaros and relaying the findings of members here and on the TAG who have received the new Altarose Compressors. So far, not ONE single problem.
A true testament the Quality of workmanship coming from the machinist and engineers in CZ. 8)
Please contact me here on the forum if you have any issues, as I will possibly be able to be of some help. And of course will relay any and all possible issues if any to Michal quicky. ;)
I do this not as a rep. of the company, but one of the first users here in the U.S. and have put quite a few hours on an Altaros Unit feeding a .257 Big Bore. In fact, She will be put to good use in the next hour again. LOL!!! ;D 8)
Knife
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Has anyone figured out the Altaros yet? Is this thing a bust?
I've read page after page of Well my compressor is over heating maybe I can get a bigger one. Or in theory it should fill my tank from 3000 to 4500 psi in 2 hours. But then I see no follow ups.
I have a tiger shark tank 74 CU FT. Anyone know how fast it can fill 3000-4500 with the Altaros?
I know their web site has theoretical numbers but was hoping for real life numbers.
Compressor - Oil or no oil what is the consensus on that? I have a 4 gallon oil commercial grade 15 years old I doubt it would handle it. So I'll need to buy a new compressor.
Better to have a 5 gallon commercial grade 3HP oil makita or that 30 gallon husky w the oiless (burn out faster) motor?
Price including shipping? 650.00? + 320.00(compressor) = 970.00 + all the filters = 1,000 +
I like that it runs cool and won't wear out but it seems to pass the buck to your main compressor and wear it out faster. That is why I think oil would be better and just buy a oil separator.
Oh for water have any of you tried elevating the hose so the condensation runs downhill back to your main compressor?
Or even better have any of you used a condenser on the input air to the main compressor? Basically feeding the compressor dry air so your filter last 10x longer.
Check this video out on how to properly dry the air.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Sn1PhK-RVI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Sn1PhK-RVI)
But that also adds to the cost.
Is this thing any faster than a shoebox? It sounds easier than the shoebox, but the shoebox does not put much strain on the main compressor the Altaros sounds like it does and I am concerned that the oi-less compressors won't hold up and will break early.
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I'm using a 2 hp 30 gallon Craftsman oilless compressor thats about 10 years old and it seems to be doing fine. I set my output pressure to 110 psi so the compressor runs for about 1 1/2 minutes and rests for 2 1/2 minutes. That keeps it cool enough for long periods of time. I fill my 14 cft. baby Airhog from 3k to 4.5k psi in about 30-35 minutes. When I filled my Drager 60 minute SCBA tank it took about 6+ hours to go from 1200 psi to 4500 psi. I think the key is to give your compressor enough cool down time while filling. It's not the fastest but if you have the time and are on a budget I think it's a good investment, especially being low or almost no maintenance. The only issue I had was I blew a 5k pressure disk on the output valve but that was easily replaced in a couple of days (via Amazon). Michal at Altaros put a replacement in the mail that day. If you have or need a decent shop compressor, which I do, then it's a very affordable means to fill tanks.
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Neither pump generates moisture. The moisture comes from the humidity in the air. The smaller pump runs hotter and when the hot air hit the cold tank or piping it condensates easier than it does with the larger pump. You still need a dessicant or drier. I know there is a small one on the Altars, but will it be sufficient for heavy use in high humidity?
When a compressor runs almost continuously, it runs hot, and produces a lot of moisture.
Running the Altaros off a first stage compressor that is too small, will result in a lot of moisture being produced.
This does not seem correct to me. The moisture is not Produced by the compressor its already in the air when it goes into the intake. A hotter running motor will simply show you more of the water that was in the air. A colder running compressor will let moisture laiden air above the dewpoint shot out the air gun of the compressor giving you the illusion that its drier. Because less of the moisture is in the form of water but its still in the air. So the same amount would need to be trapped either way.
But....
The Altaros is going to produce more moisture than the shoebox because it requires MORE air to go through it to work. I don't know what percentage of that air go to cooling but to fill a tank from 3000 to 4500 psi it will need more air than the shoebox. Maybe 2x the air so that would be 2x the moisture vs a shoebox.
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Well, no, not really. You see, the majority of the air is being used to drive the center section, or the air motor if you will. It is not going into the charge. Additionally, this air, is also exhausted in a way to cool the actual air pumping cylinders. This results in a very cool charge.
I have a shoe box and an altaros. I use the same water separators and filters for both. Whether it is the additional filter and separator in the altaros system or another reason. But the Altaros air charge to the bottle is definitely dryer. It is quite noticeable.
Knife
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Has anyone figured out the Altaros yet? Is this thing a bust?
I've read page after page of Well my compressor is over heating maybe I can get a bigger one. Or in theory it should fill my tank from 3000 to 4500 psi in 2 hours. But then I see no follow ups.
I have a tiger shark tank 74 CU FT. Anyone know how fast it can fill 3000-4500 with the Altaros?
I know their web site has theoretical numbers but was hoping for real life numbers.
Compressor - Oil or no oil what is the consensus on that? I have a 4 gallon oil commercial grade 15 years old I doubt it would handle it. So I'll need to buy a new compressor.
Better to have a 5 gallon commercial grade 3HP oil makita or that 30 gallon husky w the oiless (burn out faster) motor?
Price including shipping? 650.00? + 320.00(compressor) = 970.00 + all the filters = 1,000 +
I like that it runs cool and won't wear out but it seems to pass the buck to your main compressor and wear it out faster. That is why I think oil would be better and just buy a oil separator.
Oh for water have any of you tried elevating the hose so the condensation runs downhill back to your main compressor?
Or even better have any of you used a condenser on the input air to the main compressor? Basically feeding the compressor dry air so your filter last 10x longer.
Check this video out on how to properly dry the air.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Sn1PhK-RVI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Sn1PhK-RVI)
But that also adds to the cost.
Is this thing any faster than a shoebox? It sounds easier than the shoebox, but the shoebox does not put much strain on the main compressor the Altaros sounds like it does and I am concerned that the oi-less compressors won't hold up and will break early.
This has been addressed over and over here. You do not need an oil less compressor to use the Altaros. And Altaros plainly states this.
Oil Less compressors are mostly small portable units for job sites, and home hobby, and tire filling. They are not heavy use compressors at all. They are very light duty, and disposable.
A norman, oil cooled compressor is best. The larger the better. It is the CFM that is important here. Terry is getting over 1000 psi an hour in a 88 cf scba bottle. I am getting 900 psi per hour at at lesser cfm.
The altaros is a booster pump. The U.S. Military has been using high pressure booster pumps for years. They are FAR from a bust. They are extremely dependable. The Altaros is No Exception.
Knife
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Well you bunch of enablers made me do it. My order is in and ships tomorrow. Will be nice to not pay that dive shop $17 for 3800psi fill plus 80miles of driving!
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Well you bunch of enablers made me do it. My order is in and ships tomorrow. Will be nice to not pay that dive shop $17 for 3800psi fill plus 80miles of driving!
Congrats Tim!! One of the first things I noted when I got mine is just how much farther a cylinder goes when it actually has 4500psi in it. The paintball place could never get my cylinders over 4000psi.
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Well you bunch of enablers made me do it. My order is in and ships tomorrow. Will be nice to not pay that dive shop $17 for 3800psi fill plus 80miles of driving!
Wow, what a rip off. I'm so lucky to have a dive shop 25 minutes away that chargers me $8 to fill a tank to 4500psi from empty and only $4 to fill from 3K to 4500. Super nice folks as well! Hope they're around as long as this old fart is. If I didn't have that source I'd have to consider a compressor.
Ed
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Well you bunch of enablers made me do it. My order is in and ships tomorrow. Will be nice to not pay that dive shop $17 for 3800psi fill plus 80miles of driving!
ROLMAO I love it, "you enablers" Just when you got out they pull you back in.
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Got mine 2 days ago so far I've filled the Pony 68ci and the Air ventury and topped off my texan. It took around 2 to 2.5 hours to fill the AV. From 3200psi to 4500psi. The 68ci filled in 20minutes from 2900psi. The Texan took about 2 minutes from 2700 to 3000. I had some water in both water traps before the Altaros. The trap in the Altaros didn't have a drop. I also checked the decasant on the medium pressure side of the Altaros and it was still orange with not 1 green bead in it. Just remember to bleed the shop tank often. Seems my old 7.4cfm 5.5hp oiless compressor does ok with it. Got set at 98psi. I may add another water trap down the road for colder weather conditions. Very nice piece of tech! Love it thus far. I'll be going through more lead that's for sure!
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I am "THIS_CLOSE" to ordering an Altaros, and just wanted to reach out and see if there is any last-minute feedback on this unit.
It looks to be well-engineered. I've got a 60gal/130psi/220VAC oil-lubed air compressor to feed it so I think that angle is covered.
Any go / no-go advice for me?
Thanks,
-ct
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Have 3 water traps and 1 air drier in front of it. Ran for 5 hours total so far and still no water has made it to the Altaros trap or the medium pressure beads. My advice is just be sure to have decent moisture collection and get it!
Edit don't forget to buy more lead! :o
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Any go / no-go advice for me?
Well I mulled this over for a few weeks and just decided to place the order. So now the wait begins.
Being a stubborn person, I filled my new 90CI bottle with a boosted Hill hand pump (it took 6 hours and basically wore out the pump to the point of needing a rebuild) and don't wish to be that foolish again.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to playing with this fascinating new toy. :D
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Any go / no-go advice for me?
Well I mulled this over for a few weeks and just decided to place the order. So now the wait begins.
Being a stubborn person, I filled my new 90CI bottle with a boosted Hill hand pump (it took 6 hours and basically wore out the pump to the point of needing a rebuild) and don't wish to be that foolish again.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to playing with this fascinating new toy. :D
You won't regret it! It's a very good unit
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Shooting an airhog .257, I use a LOT of air, and fill daily.
The altaros has been fantastic. Still running smooth, and if anything, has become more efficient than when new.
I couldn't be happier! ;)
Knife
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Well I mulled this over for a few weeks and just decided to place the order. So now the wait begins.
I received mine today. It arrived to the West Coast very well packed and undamaged. The manual is well-written and I was up and running in 20 minutes. Filled up the Monsoon (3000psi) in about 10 minutes, then topped my Ninja tank from 2000 to 4500psi in...maybe 50min or so, driving it at 120psi. It shut off right at 4500.
The most surprising thing is the unit's lack of noise. Just a soothing rocking/chirping sound. No heat, vibration, or drama. My big compressor is in a different garage so it was really pleasant to monitor the Altaros. I need to put some more air drying in line but wanted to test it once now now now. ::)
Finally, I'm amazed this thing gets through Customs so smoothly. It looks like some fictional Hollywood version of a suitcase nuke, even though it could not be more innocuous in reality. Really well constructed and thoughtfully designed.
Hope it is a good long-term investment. Things look good so far.
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I have one of the very early ones, and it is running smooth as silk!
Couldn't be happier with it! 8)
Knife
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I have filled up my Ninja tank about 10 times with the Altaros now, flawlessly. This thing is great. My only problem is that it has "encouraged" me to to pick up a couple of high-end European Semiauto PCP rifles. It is so nice knowing you can fill the tank when you get home.
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So I've ordered my Altaros today and I'm debating between 2 models. My needs are fairly light (mostly tire fills and light tasks around the house) and I don't have 220 in my garage for a large compressor. Here's what I'm looking at (not allowed to post links)
Husky model C303H
5.1 CFM @ 90 PSI with 30 gal tank
Or
Makita model MAC5200
6.5 CFM @ 90 PSI with a 5.2 gal tank
I assume the Makita would fill faster but with the smaller tank size wouldn't it also have to run more often, possibly heating up the air more?
If anyone has real world experience and 3000-4500 fill times with either of these compressors I'd love to know! Thanks.
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So I've ordered my Altaros today and I'm debating between 2 models. My needs are fairly light (mostly tire fills and light tasks around the house) and I don't have 220 in my garage for a large compressor. Here's what I'm looking at (not allowed to post links)
Husky model C303H
5.1 CFM @ 90 PSI with 30 gal tank
Or
Makita model MAC5200
6.5 CFM @ 90 PSI with a 5.2 gal tank
I assume the Makita would fill faster but with the smaller tank size wouldn't it also have to run more often, possibly heating up the air more?
If anyone has real world experience and 3000-4500 fill times with either of these compressors I'd love to know! Thanks.
I'd go with option 3... something bigger than either of those.
Good Luck!
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Hi guys I just wanted to add my own experience with the Altaros, I have a 20 year old 1 stage 6hp 60 gallon compressor. I just installed some copper pipe to use as a cooler before the regulator. It has 3 vertical loops with drains at the bottom of each loop. My compressor is set to turn on at 100psi and off at 120psi. I ran the compressor 60 percent on 40 percent off by adjusting screw on the Altaros.
Today I filled my Great White tank (97CF) from 3700PSI to 4500PSI in 43 minutes.
When I drained the pipes I got about 2-3 oz in the first loop, 1/2 oz in 2nd, and a few drops in the 3rd. I had a little water vapor in the Altaros's filter bowl. I ran it with a box fan blowing on the compressor and the copper pipes to cool them.