GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: JF83D420 on August 12, 2018, 09:06:13 AM
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Ok guys.... I’ve searched the forums for a couple days and can’t seem to find what I’m looking for. I have the gamo urban and love it.i just invested into the huma air regulator and the opened up transfer port. I’m looking to see if anyone knows a good starting point? Like what bar to set the regulator at and how many turns on the hanger spring? I’m going to be hunting squirrel and rabbit . I want to be able to still take them down at fifty yards but would like a higher shot count per fill if possible.I was getting thirty shots out of a fill, but only 20 were accurate, hence why I stopped filling all the way. The only rule in NYS is when hunting with an air rifle, it has to shoot over 600fps. So any thoughts on a good starting point would be helpful..... preferably where to set the regulator ,so I don’t have to disassemble the gun multiple times to readjust the regulator. The hammer spring is easy enough to adjust I don’t mind having to tweak that a few times. Thanks in advance
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Jon, I also shoot an Urban. I don't think mine is accurate enough to take rabbits and squirrels reliably at 50 yards. I think it'll hold 1.5" groups maybe at 35-40 yds.
Most folks reporting better accuracy are doing it with heavy pellets; requiring probably more air per shot. I ended up using my Urban for plinking only on 4.75" square, metal targets with light GTO lead-free pellets at 837 fps (although I tested a full range of lead pellets first). My Urban at that adjustment gives me 30 shots.
Edit: I hand pump and only fill to ~2900 psi.
It seems like more air per shot + giving up some of the already small reservoir for a regulator might not end up giving you more than 20 usable, accurate shots. I'll be following your post though with interest to see what others have to say and how this turns out for you. Best of luck with this effort!
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I don't know the Urbans that well, and you've given a very rough range of what fps you want it to shoot. If you aren't keen on adjusting the regulator much, but still want some flexibility, then adjust it a little higher than you think you'll need would be my advice. That gun has a rather small reservoir, so I don't know that you're really going to increase your shot count much, unless you plan on shooting closer to the 600 fps you mentioned.
A rough guess would be to set the regulator in the 120-130 bar range. That is just off the top of my head, but that should be plenty to get you over the 600fps mark. You want to adjust it to where it is shooting 20-50fps lower than it can on a given reg setting for the best efficiency/shot count. For example: If you the max fps it will shoot at 120 bar is 750fps, then you want to back the spring down to where it is shooting 700-730fps. That is the best rough advice I can give without more info. I suspect you'll get more answers if you give us more details like what fps you want, and what pellets you're using. Of course, you need a chrony to do this correctly. If you aren't using a chrony, then this is just shooting in the dark :)
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115bar is a good area to start. Assuming there is ~ 15cc or so plenum you should be able to get 25+fpe.
You appear to be one of the early adopters of a Urban/huma combo so you are going to have to test......
I built a QB with a little over 100cc tube, corrected 110cc tube, very similar to the urban, and installed a Huma reg. With a 117bar reg setpoint I get 45 shots right at 28 fpe corrected to 27fpe using JSB 18gr. This took a lot of tuning tricks to achieve-- Big ports,peek poppet,ultralight peek hammer, and a well tuned SSG.
As I understand it the urban has a far more advanced powerplant so you shouldn't have as difficult of a time dialing it in as I did with my QB....
Good luck, I can't wait to read your results.
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Marc in Iowa ..... I’m amazed that you say your urban is not accurate at fifty yards ....I wonder if it’s your scope or pellet you’re using?i have a target out around fifty yards as I don’t have a long enough tape or range finder so I walked it heel to toe so close estimate. And I can take a dime out at that range....I have a hammers scope 4-12x40ao and use H&n sniper magnum 17.90gr . I do agree I need to get a chrony to do this right. I should have ordered the Caldwell at $65 from eBay but they sold out. It is on my list though I’m still waiting for the port to arrive so I have some time. Was just hoping someone had figured a base line for the regulator. As for how many fps I’m looking for I want enough to take down a squirrel or a rabbit. I once read the force it hits is more important than the speed it gets there. Anyone agree to that ?
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115bar is a good area to start. Assuming there is ~ 15cc or so plenum you should be able to get 25+fpe.
You appear to be one of the early adopters of a Urban/huma combo so you are going to have to test......
I built a QB with a little over 100cc tube, very similar to the urban, and installed a Huma reg. With a 117bar reg setpoint I get 45 shots right at 28 fpe using JSB 18gr. This took a lot of tuning tricks to achieve-- Big ports,peek poppet,ultralight peek hammer, and a well tuned SSG.
As I understand it the urban has a far more advanced powerplant so you shouldn't have as difficult of a time dialing it in as I did with my QB....
Good luck, I can't wait to read your results.
I'd be very surprised if he got the shot count/power you're getting with that QB. I think he'd be doing good to get half that shot count at the same power level. The numbers you're getting(efficiency) are amazing by any gun's standard. We're also talking about a gun rated at 800fps out of the box, with only a larger transfer port. I wouldn't want to give anyone unrealistic expectations ;)
Marc in Iowa ..... I’m amazed that you say your urban is not accurate at fifty yards ....I wonder if it’s your scope or pellet you’re using?i have a target out around fifty yards as I don’t have a long enough tape or range finder so I walked it heel to toe so close estimate. And I can take a dime out at that range....I have a hammers scope 4-12x40ao and use H&n sniper magnum 17.90gr . I do agree I need to get a chrony to do this right. I should have ordered the Caldwell at $65 from eBay but they sold out. It is on my list though I’m still waiting for the port to arrive so I have some time. Was just hoping someone had figured a base line for the regulator. As for how many fps I’m looking for I want enough to take down a squirrel or a rabbit. I once read the force it hits is more important than the speed it gets there. Anyone agree to that ?
That is sort of true. The force of impact is the most important thing, but the velocity of the pellets is part of what determines that force. I'd say you want to shoot for around 15fpe at least, but 20fpe would be better if you're shooting at 50 yards for sure. That isn't to say 15fpe won't do the job, but there will be more pellet drop to keep into consideration on the longer shots. 20fpe would be a 14.3 moving at 800fps roughly. Definitely try and come with a chrony though. It will be critical in getting that tune nailed down. I hope that helps man.
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... target out around fifty yards as I don’t have a long enough tape or range finder so I walked it heel to toe so close estimate. And I can take a dime out at that range ... H&n sniper magnum 17.90gr
Well, that agrees with the posts I see from other folks, really good accuracy with heavier pellets. I've tried the Sniper Magnum pellets.
Is this bench rested? I do my accuracy shooting with a bean bag and both of my elbows rested in the corner of my deck rail, sitting on a stool.
As regards distances, I encourage you to invest in a 50 or 150 foot tape (<$15) if you want to be sure. I stepped my distances originally and I was off by almost 10 yards at the 55 yard point.
https://www.amazon.com/Komelon-9905-Gripper-Measure-50-Feet/dp/B001PCXEB4 (https://www.amazon.com/Komelon-9905-Gripper-Measure-50-Feet/dp/B001PCXEB4)
https://www.amazon.com/Performance-Tool-1942-150-Feet-Measure/dp/B002KS196E (https://www.amazon.com/Performance-Tool-1942-150-Feet-Measure/dp/B002KS196E)
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I have a bipod mounted and use a bean bag in the rear. I tried to post a pic.... but can’t figure out how to resize it :o
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I have a bipod mounted and use a bean bag in the rear. I tried to post a pic.... but can’t figure out how to resize it :o
If you are shooting a camera, there's usually a setting to make the originals smaller.
If you are using a phone, you can find free photo resizer apps.
My Android phone uses "Photo and Picture Resizer" (free).
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hammers scope 4-12x40ao
My scopes are:
UTG 3-9x 32mm
UTG 4-12x 32mm
UTG 4-16x 44mm
UTG 4-16x 54mm
Hawke Airmax 4-12x 40mm
I've probably had them all on the Urban during my testing. Likely my best quality scope is the Hawke 4-12x40. I see this review of the Hammers on Amazon:
"Glass is very clear. Even better than a Hawke Airmax 4-12x40."
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115bar is a good area to start. Assuming there is ~ 15cc or so plenum you should be able to get 25+fpe.
You appear to be one of the early adopters of a Urban/huma combo so you are going to have to test......
I built a QB with a little over 100cc tube, very similar to the urban, and installed a Huma reg. With a 117bar reg setpoint I get 45 shots right at 28 fpe using JSB 18gr. This took a lot of tuning tricks to achieve-- Big ports,peek poppet,ultralight peek hammer, and a well tuned SSG.
As I understand it the urban has a far more advanced powerplant so you shouldn't have as difficult of a time dialing it in as I did with my QB....
Good luck, I can't wait to read your results.
I'd be very surprised if he got the shot count/power you're getting with that QB. I think he'd be doing good to get half that shot count at the same power level. The numbers you're getting(efficiency) are amazing by any gun's standard. We're also talking about a gun rated at 800fps out of the box, with only a larger transfer port. I wouldn't want to give anyone unrealistic expectations ;)
Understood and agreed. You also made me take a look back at my notes. this particular QB is 45 shots of ~27fpe.....I overstated it a bit and have edited the post.
With the Urban's powerplant I would hope for example 40 shots around 25fpe would be a reasonable expectation. Maybe not the initial results, but with a little bit of work I would hope this is attainable.
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JON,
Donnie's regulator and hammer spring recommendations are spot on. I think 12 - 16 fpe, maybe less, will get you the results you are looking for. I would start at the lighter range of .22 pellets for a flatter trajectory. Try all the lighter .22 pellets you can get your hands on to find the most accurate.
If you don't get the accuracy you want then I would retune the gun for the heavier pellets and do your accuracy testing again. You could also try the lighter pellets at these settings and see if any shoot better at the now higher velocity.
Pellets shoot differently at different velocities.
Accuracy is always paramount. Adequate power is next to ensure humane kills. Shot count usually takes a back seat. You can always add air but you can't redo a bad shot. ;D
Thanks,
Taso
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My urban
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My urban
Nice! I like the bipod. What is it?
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Will be interested to see how this turns out (the huma reg and the 40 shots at 25 fpe target). Currently, i can get 37 shots at 21 fpe using CPUM and shooting from 3200 psi down to 1100 psi. The shot string is really pretty nice (attached) - this is with the hs pretension all the way to lowest power but completely stock otherwise. But I don't think it will give me 40 shots at 25 fpe unless more serious modding gets done, but ymmv.
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My urban
Nice! I like the bipod. What is it?
CVLIFE 6-9 Inches Tactical Rifle Bipod Adjustable Spring Return with Adapter https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01E4YVCOA/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_qFlCBbAY9G72F (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01E4YVCOA/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_qFlCBbAY9G72F)
The Outdoor Connection Swivel Bases for BO-5 Detachable Swivels https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00162QGWW/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_wHlCBbK62XQ3E (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00162QGWW/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_wHlCBbK62XQ3E)
Ten Point Gear Gun Sling Paracord 550 Adjustable w/Swivels (Multiple Color Options) (Black & OD - Olive Drab Green) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01A1JE9LA/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_2IlCBbCRZ48Z5 (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01A1JE9LA/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_2IlCBbCRZ48Z5)
Hammers 4-12X40AO Air Gun Rifle Scope for High Power Magnum Spring Air Gun Rifle with One Piece Mount Built-in Stop Pin https://www.amazon.com/dp/B015YN8QTE/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_JKlCBb60C79XG (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B015YN8QTE/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_JKlCBb60C79XG)
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I have an Alteros reg in my Urban, I finally settled it if memory recalls around around 125 Bar...Hammer spring 7 rotations out (counter clockwise ) from full power - 40 shots...Hope this helps
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I have an Alteros reg in my Urban, I finally settled it if memory recalls around around 125 Bar...Hammer spring 7 rotations out (counter clockwise ) from full power - 40 shots...Hope this helps
Can you share more details such as velocities, what pellet, shot strings, any other mods? It will be interesting to compare notes. Thank you.
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I have an Alteros reg in my Urban, I finally settled it if memory recalls around around 125 Bar...Hammer spring 7 rotations out (counter clockwise ) from full power - 40 shots...Hope this helps
This deffinetly helps as the message on the bag for the regulator states you should not adjust unless you’re experienced with tuning and should leave it at the pressure setting it arrives at.... 125bar is where it’s at . I should also mention I purchased it from XTX AIR for about $106 ;D
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Jon
It you want to understand more on tuning with a regulator then this is a must read.
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=74919.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=74919.0)
Mike
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I have an Alteros reg in my Urban, I finally settled it if memory recalls around around 125 Bar...Hammer spring 7 rotations out (counter clockwise ) from full power - 40 shots...Hope this helps
Can you share more details such as velocities, what pellet, shot strings, any other mods? It will be interesting to compare notes. Thank you.
https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/help-need-more-power-from-my-gamo-urban/ (https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/help-need-more-power-from-my-gamo-urban/)
Also added a GRT 4 trigger, much better...I removed Pickle on barrel end, reduced barrel length by an inch, added a slip on 1/2 unf adaptor after putting a carbon sleeve on barrel and am awaiting my Huggett to finalise testing...
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I have an Alteros reg in my Urban, I finally settled it if memory recalls around around 125 Bar...Hammer spring 7 rotations out (counter clockwise ) from full power - 40 shots...Hope this helps
Can you share more details such as velocities, what pellet, shot strings, any other mods? It will be interesting to compare notes. Thank you.
https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/help-need-more-power-from-my-gamo-urban/ (https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/help-need-more-power-from-my-gamo-urban/)
Also added a GRT 4 trigger, much better...I removed Pickle on barrel end, reduced barrel length by an inch, added a slip on 1/2 unf adaptor after putting a carbon sleeve on barrel and am awaiting my Huggett to finalise testing...
Very nice build, I enjoyed the read and look forward to reading any future developments. Thank you.
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So I finally got the huma in and think I have it adjusted I have it set to 120 bar hammer spring about 4.25 turns. I seem to be getting 40 shots at an average of 697 fps. The wind is starting to pu so I’m not sure if I’ll be able to see the grouping as I need to sight it back in I may pull apart and turn the regulator up to 125 and try that I’m not sure as I want to see how well this combo works for hunting
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Approximately 28 yards from the end of the barrel. Scope adjustment cover ,covers them except for two flyers. Not bad, I’m going to say maybe quarter size ,as you can see I compared it to a penny. I’ll take it for outside on a windy day.bottom right target. Half inch plywood and still driving the pellets through. Should add it was ten shots
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Nice start with the reg. Not all initial results are quite as favorable, congrats. I would recommend graphing velocity vs preload settings prior to making a reg change. It will save you a lot of time, air, and pellets
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From memory... :o I have my Urban with an Alteros Regulator in it set at 120 Bar +/- hammer spring about 7 turns out shooting JSB 14.35 around 760 - 780 fps +/-18 ft lbs for 40 consistent shots this is very accurate...For hunting I would recommend setting reg somewhere around 130 Bar and hammer spring about 2 rotations out , you will have less shots but should have the velocity and retained energy you need to hunt accurately out to 50 yards...
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I’m going to leave it for a bit to see if the regulator settles a little more. When I first shot the 120bar setting it was 4.5 turns on the hammer spring and the first ten to fifteen shots were around 710-720 then dropped down to about 690-700 and stayed right about there. This lead me to believe the hammer was hitting to hard so I backed it off to 4.25 turn in from nothing.There was an occasional drop off every five or six shots to about 680 or it would pick up to 710. This would only happen for one shot then be back to 690-700.this was for all 40 shots. I felt since it was consistent that it was the right hammer spring strength forgot to add H&n sniper 17.9g
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Nice start with the reg. Not all initial results are quite as favorable, congrats. I would recommend graphing velocity vs preload settings prior to making a reg change. It will save you a lot of time, air, and pellets
. Is there a way to change the Caldwell app to graph it instead of list it ?
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Nice start with the reg. Not all initial results are quite as favorable, congrats. I would recommend graphing velocity vs preload settings prior to making a reg change. It will save you a lot of time, air, and pellets
. Is there a way to change the Caldwell app to graph it instead of list it ?
I am not familiar with the Caldwell app, I have the Competition Engineering chrono and app. For me it is easier to export as a .csv file and use Excel's pivot table/pivot chart functions.