GTA

All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => European/Asian Air Gun Gates => China/Asian AirGun Gate => Topic started by: pgritty on August 23, 2018, 11:58:35 PM

Title: P 17 problem
Post by: pgritty on August 23, 2018, 11:58:35 PM
I have a pair of these pistols. Had them for a couple of years now and have had both of them apart many times. Orings, triggers issues ,... You know the usual. Lol  The other night one of them would not hold pressure. When cocked it would release all the air on closing. Took it apart, checked the orings, removed the valve, made sure the trigger mechanics were right. Still losing air on closing. Decided to remove the piston and put a few drops on alcohol through it in case there was some trash in the valve that I missed. Upon closing the piston the air and alcohol were leaking at the connection between the air cylinder and the body that holds the valve.
I thought well I had a lot of fun but this looks like a parts gun. Decided to see if that cylinder would unscrew. Caught it in some vice grips and gave it a twist. Was not moving much at all. Put the gun back together, cocked it ,....... It took air and was ready to fire.
Shot it about twenty times this evening. Accurate and fun as usual. Then whoosh. Losing air.

Had anyone else had this problem? Any repair ideas.

Still probably this best adult air gun under $50.
Pat
Title: Re: P 17 problem
Post by: bandg on August 24, 2018, 02:48:20 PM
It's been a long time since I disassembled a P17 but if I recall correctly the air tube is crimped onto the valve body/base.  Turning it probably just let a loose crimp reseal a bit.  You might be able to crimp it down some using a metal 2 piece shaft collar or similar in a vice.  Possibly a bit of epoxy sealer place along the juntion might seal it as well.  As you note, a couple of years use for the price is pretty hard to beat.
Title: Re: P 17 problem
Post by: cobalt327 on August 24, 2018, 03:00:28 PM
From here: http://anotherairgunblog.blogspot.com/2009/02/derricks-beeman-p17-overhaul-finale.html. (http://anotherairgunblog.blogspot.com/2009/02/derricks-beeman-p17-overhaul-finale.html.) May not be your problem but something to look at:

"Updated note:
I've gotten many questions about P17's dumping their air on the closing stroke. Mine started doing this the other day and I immediately assumed it was the air valve not seating. A rebuild of the air valve showed nothing was wrong and the problem continued. Close examination revealed that the sear wasn't catching the hammer consistently. Sometimes it worked fine, then--whoosh. Frustrating. It appears that the problem was the v-shaped hammer spring binding inside the grip frame. I'd put the rear end of the spring into the left grip panel on reassembly and that's not the way to do it. The tail end of the spring must be seated into the RIGHT grip panel or the spring will bind."
Title: Re: P 17 problem
Post by: bandg on August 24, 2018, 07:04:01 PM
Very true, Mark.  I've read this summation before and it was helpful.  OP did note having the pistols apart many times and I assumed he would know to check that.  Shouldn't assume. 
Title: Re: P 17 problem
Post by: pgritty on August 24, 2018, 11:34:01 PM
Appreciate the feedback guys. I had checked for binding the trigger area with the grip off of the gun. Funny you should mention another airgun blog, I am trying to read that entire blog. Fascinating stuff. That blog really helped me have the confidence to tear into the p17 in the first place. Which gave me the confidence to work on most any ' simple' airgun.

I follow your stuff to Mark, great fun with the Daisy. Found your stuff while trying to repair a friend's Daisy 99.

Bandg, I think you are on to something about that metal 2 piece shaft collar, but I have no idea what that is. Will Google it. Maybe just tweek it again and epoxy it down.   

Thanks again y'all,
Pat
Title: Re: P 17 problem
Post by: cobalt327 on August 25, 2018, 04:48:26 AM
Yeah, the Another Airgun Blog is a very interesting place. Some of his repairs involving machining parts are beyond my abilities but still very informative. A good source for disassembly photos of guns not usually seen.

I still mess with the Daisy lever BB guns- that's what brought me back into airguns, and I'll likely always work on them and no doubt will always own at least a few of them.
Title: Re: P 17 problem
Post by: pgritty on August 25, 2018, 12:51:07 PM
I shoot the Daisy's at spinners @ 10 meters. When you get the mechanics down so you can drop the gun down to cock and bring it up on target for a multiple hits, it's very satisfying. Picked up a Crosman v350. Fun shooter, just need to get a Daisy model 25 and should be set for bb guns.
Pat
Title: Re: P 17 problem
Post by: pgritty on August 28, 2018, 10:06:56 PM
Pulled the gun apart. Tested with soapy water, leaking at the crimped joint. Cleaned and degreased joint. Put epoxy around joint and let set overnight. Put back together. Whoosh. Leaking. Blew out epoxy.
Pulled back apart and put epoxy on inside of air tube. Set overnight.
Put gun back together. It shot 4 or 5 times....Then whoosh. Parts gun for sure.
 I may still try to remove the air tube just to see what kind of seal it has.
Pat
Title: Re: P 17 problem
Post by: ron_c on August 29, 2018, 12:05:55 AM
It might also be the O Ring is defective down by the tube when it is crimped.
Title: Re: P 17 problem
Post by: cobalt327 on August 29, 2018, 10:24:08 AM
Disregard.
Title: Re: P 17 problem
Post by: pgritty on August 29, 2018, 01:21:30 PM
Ron, Is that a p 17 or the p 3? How did you get that crimp out?
Pat
Title: Re: P 17 problem
Post by: ron_c on August 29, 2018, 01:56:19 PM
I do not recall where I found the photo but I believe it is for the P17.  How to remove the crimp, I have no idea and in the photo, it appears to be a replacement custom tube as it doesn't show any kind of crimp on the end of the tube.

I was thinking, if you use epoxy, instead of putting it on the outside where the pressure will tend to blow out the epoxy, how about removing all lube from the end of the tube (crimp end) and putting epoxy around the tube there.  It won't be easy but maybe it will hold.
Title: Re: P 17 problem
Post by: Ultramarine on August 29, 2018, 01:58:37 PM
Mine did just the same so I considered realigning the "BK136" part (ref. in the HW40 exploded view .)
It worked (October 2017) and still works now. .
If this can help...
Title: Re: P 17 problem
Post by: pgritty on August 29, 2018, 03:01:51 PM
Yves, the trigger mechanism is working. It will hold a tiny amount of air, enough to push out a pellet at, my guess, 150 fps. The air is coming out of the crimp  on the air tube at the body where the valve resides.
Ron, I appreciate the picture and looking as closely as I can on the monitor. It appears the crimps have been filed and polished off of the tube. Will try to disassemble and maybe JB weld the tube to the body. Nothing to lose at this point. Also I had cleaned and put epoxy on the inside of the tube. Maybe it wasn't clean enough but it did not hold past a few shots. Better than when it was on the outside as that failed immediately.
Thanks for the input everyone,
Pat
Title: Re: P 17 problem
Post by: d-cuttler on August 31, 2018, 05:17:41 PM
I just received my new Marksman 2004 pistol today, and the first thing I discovered is I did not have enough strength to cock it. I had to place the gun on my work bench and lean on it to get the gun to close.

I am coming from a Gamo Compact, and while it was stiff, I used it for over 20 years until it finally fell apart! I then purchased an FAS 6004, which requires half the  pressure of the Gamo to close it. The Beeman Marksman / P17 as it came out of the package, is a real bear to close.

On the other hand the stock trigger released smoothly at 20 oz, and it appears to be very accurate. What to do?

I took the piston out to see if I could turn the face down in my lathe. The first thing I found was the set screw locking the cross pin was loose.

I took off as much as I could off the piston checking by firing a pellet each time. The elevation in the group never changed, and it was still too hard the close. Not wanting to get too close to the o-ring groove I started to bore material out of the center of the piston, again checking the elevation by firing sone pellets.

After many times taking a little more out of the piston, it now cocks as easy as my old Gamo Compact, and the elevation has remained constant.

In the future I may keep removing material from the piston until I start to see a drop in elevation making it even easier to cock, and surely saving stress on all of the gun's components.

All the stress of charging this gun in it's stock condition may be the cause of all of the mystery failures we keep hearing about. I think my work so far proves that the charging pressure is way too high for 10 meter shooting.

Title: Re: P 17 problem
Post by: d-cuttler on August 31, 2018, 08:04:31 PM
Modified piston
Title: Re: P 17 problem
Post by: bandg on August 31, 2018, 08:27:53 PM
Interesting problem and solution.  You could always add material back where removed if necessary so removing it as you did seems to be a well handled task.  Congratulations.
Title: Re: P 17 problem
Post by: d-cuttler on August 31, 2018, 08:32:11 PM
Yes. I have removed even more from the piston, with the knowledge that if I go to far, I can always apply some epoxy in the hole.
Title: Re: P 17 problem
Post by: pgritty on August 31, 2018, 09:17:41 PM
Nice work and interesting solution to the hard cocking issue. For the first year or so I wore a glove on my left hand when cocking. Either my hand got tougher or it became easier to cock. Do you think it if you drilled out some material from the piston it would accomplish the same result?
Pat
Title: Re: P 17 problem
Post by: d-cuttler on August 31, 2018, 09:25:38 PM
I am still removing more material from the piston with no lose of elevation when shooting it. I believe that if Beeman was to pay more attention to the design and manufacturing of these guns, most of the defects would go away, abd folks would not be returning them in such high numbers.

If you ever have the chance to cock an FSA 6004, you will be amazed at how easy it is to cock. That is the direction I am working for.
Title: Re: P 17 problem
Post by: BrushPopper on September 01, 2018, 12:57:10 PM
Yeah, alot of shooters become obsessed with power and forget about ease of operation and accuracy. Losing a few fps for a lighter cocking-stroke is a fair trade.

BTW, these are kinda fun/ez to convert to .22. My 2004 tosses .22 Hobbies @ 340 fps,  still stiff to charge it... brace it on my thigh, and try not to catch ur shirt tail (not to mention essential parts of ur anatomy) during the closing stroke.
Title: Re: P 17 problem
Post by: d-cuttler on September 01, 2018, 05:20:00 PM
Well I went too far, and reduced the compression to the point where the gun would not fire with a pellet in it. It would just hiss. This is interesting because up until now as I removed material from the piston, the trajectory remaind the same!

I think the pressure was reduced to a point where the valve would not work properly.

I took it apart, partially filled the bore I machined with a little 5 minute epoxy, and the gun is now shooting fine again. I can still cock it with 2 hands without too much effort, so I think I will leave it alone. This is coming from someone who is 80 years old and has arthritis in both hands.

If anyone is interested in doing this modification, I weighed the piston, and with the set screw, and o-ring it was 94 g and still working well. I did not have any problems until I got down around 93 g or less.

I read on another site where it was reccomended to insert  4-40 set screws to keep the steel pins from moving, so I picked up some at Ace Hardware, and screwed them in. They will create their own threads. You do not need a tap.

The final improvement was to enlarge the slot where the hamner/latch is located to allow the use of a pellet pen. Easy to do with a dremel tool, and a round burr.

Overall this has been a satisfying project, and I feel the P17 is now worth way more than I paid for it.
Title: Re: P 17 problem
Post by: cobalt327 on September 01, 2018, 05:42:59 PM
Good job adapting it to suit you.
Title: Re: P 17 problem
Post by: bandg on September 01, 2018, 07:40:12 PM
Certainly good work but I wonder if you had a pistol with a manufacturing error.  I have several P17's and none are difficult to cock but I'm only 60 with just some signs of arthritis showing up and that may be the difference.  In any event, good work making it function.
Title: Re: P 17 problem
Post by: d-cuttler on September 01, 2018, 08:29:38 PM
Certainly good work but I wonder if you had a pistol with a manufacturing error.  I have several P17's and none are difficult to cock but I'm only 60 with just some signs of arthritis showing up and that may be the difference.  In any event, good work making it function.

I don't think my gun is an anomaly, because there are reports about it being hard to cock all over the internet. Right now you may be doing ok, but in a few years, you may change your mind.

There are constant reports of failed seals and other issues that probably are directly related to the stress the high pressure and mechanical stress of cocking places on them. I owned a Gamo compact that operated well for almost 25 years and I never changed any parts, or seals. I never lubed it either.

I can say the same for a Daisy match rifle that was also made by Gamo. It was a single stroke, and again never required any seals or maintenance. It was still going strong a few months ago when I sold it to another shooter, who is loving it.

I have never had an opportunity to test fire the German pistol it was based on, but i would be willing to bet it was much easier to operate than the P17. This is what happens when a company tries to clone a product without paying attention to the details.

Also it is a PIA to insert pellets into the barrel, which could have been easily corrected. My Gamo Compact and FAS 6004 both made inserting pellets less difficult.

Please do not think I am complaining, because for what these guns cost, they are a steal. All I am saying is with a little attention to detail prior to making plastic molds, and approving the dimensions of the piston,  and other parts, these issues would have gone away at zero cost to manufacture.

It would not surprise me that they handed one of the German guns to a factory in China and said "make me some of these, " and never test fired a sample, or spent any time to QC the first production run.
Title: Re: P 17 problem
Post by: bandg on September 01, 2018, 08:57:51 PM
Glad you have it where it is comfortable for you.  Enjoy it.
Title: Re: P 17 problem
Post by: d-cuttler on September 01, 2018, 09:18:04 PM
Glad you have it where it is comfortable for you.  Enjoy it.

Thanks I am enjoying the pistol, and if it ever dies for other reasons, I will buy another, and swap out the modified parts.
Title: Re: P 17 problem
Post by: d-cuttler on September 02, 2018, 09:54:49 PM
New problems.

Thinking I had everything fixed, It started to make the hissing sound again, and would not fire the pellet. I went to bed rather frustrated, and it did keep me up while I lay in bed thinking about it. I came to the conclusion that there must be a leak at the breach o-ring, and when the pressure was very high prior to boring out the piston, it would fire the pellet even while leaking at the breech.

With so little money invested, I decided to give it a hard look. The first thing did was remove the barrel, and discovered is concentric rings across the face where it meets the o-ring. I chucked the barrel in my lathe, and taking very light cuts smoothed it out. Next using 600 wet & dry, I polished the face very smooth. and wrapped some 600 wet & dry around a pencil and polished the surface where the pellet is inserted.

Next came the breech block which was very uneven, had rough casting marks and protrusions. I wrapped some 200 wet & dry around a steel tool bit, and sanded off all the high spots, following with 600 wet and dry. There is no need to make it perfect, just remove the high spots to allow the barrel to compress the o-ring.



After cleaning it up with some electrical contact cleaner, I reinstalled the barrel but did not completely tighten the two screws. I read on another web site where they recommended using 2 thicknesses of computer paper as a gauge to set the distance between the barrel and the breech block, which is what I did taping the paper in place.

Next closed the gun, and using the back of a drill bit pushed the barrel hard against the breech block. Opened the gun, removed the paper gauge, and reinstalled the o-ring giving it a light coating of silicon grease.

Everything worked great, and I was able to fire a lot of pellets without any failures. This made me think, that maybe I did not need the epoxy I used to partially fill the hole I bored it the piston. Out with the piston, chucked it back in the lathe, and removed the epoxy with a boring bar. Reassembled the gun, and it is firing all kinds of pellets without failure, and it is very easy to cock.

This has been an interesting project, and I have had the gun apart so many times, I think I should have inserted a zipper! Anyway it is going to be fun shooting it until a  new gremlin rears it’s head.
Title: Re: P 17 problem
Post by: d-cuttler on September 02, 2018, 09:58:54 PM
More photos
Title: Re: P 17 problem
Post by: trackerbuddy on September 02, 2018, 10:11:02 PM
I just received my new Marksman 2004 pistol today, and the first thing I discovered is I did not have enough strength to cock it. I had to place the gun on my work bench and lean on it to get the gun to close.

I am coming from a Gamo Compact, and while it was stiff, I used it for over 20 years until it finally fell apart! I then purchased an FAS 6004, which requires half the  pressure of the Gamo to close it. The Beeman Marksman / P17 as it came out of the package, is a real bear to close.

On the other hand the stock trigger released smoothly at 20 oz, and it appears to be very accurate. What to do?

I took the piston out to see if I could turn the face down in my lathe. The first thing I found was the set screw locking the cross pin was loose.

I took off as much as I could off the piston checking by firing a pellet each time. The elevation in the group never changed, and it was still too hard the close. Not wanting to get too close to the o-ring groove I started to bore material out of the center of the piston, again checking the elevation by firing sone pellets.

After many times taking a little more out of the piston, it now cocks as easy as my old Gamo Compact, and the elevation has remained constant.

In the future I may keep removing material from the piston until I start to see a drop in elevation making it even easier to cock, and surely saving stress on all of the gun's components.

All the stress of charging this gun in it's stock condition may be the cause of all of the mystery failures we keep hearing about. I think my work so far proves that the charging pressure is way too high for 10 meter shooting.

We got two subjects going here but this is how i fixed the cocking issues with the P17.  No more pinched shirts for me
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=127588.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=127588.0)
Title: Re: P 17 problem
Post by: d-cuttler on September 02, 2018, 10:40:57 PM
Kent,

I just looked at your extender, and if I did not have a lathe, and the ablity to do the rework I did, I probably would have jumped on your extender. However one thing my mod did is to dramatically reduce the mechanical stress while cocking the gun, not to mention reducing the extreme pressure, which must be effecing the life of seals and other components.

At first I was convinced the design, and the very high air pressure was just sloppy engineering and poor QC, but it may have been an intentional decision, because the high compression covered up some other really poor manufacturing. If I had never reduced the compression, I never would have become aware of the leaking breech seal.

After I have used it for awhile, the next project will be working on the trigger.
Title: Re: P 17 problem
Post by: cobalt327 on September 02, 2018, 11:03:02 PM
The cocking aid costs about $30 with shipping to GA so I'll pass. Good idea though.
Title: Re: P 17 problem
Post by: WyoMan on September 02, 2018, 11:27:58 PM
Hi David, I made several trigger mods but finally found one that worked for me. Here's one idea:

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=129587.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=129587.0)

After the mod, the trigger was almost as good as my FAS 6004. What I've found with these high compression SSPs, is that you need to use the two-stage trigger to have a crisp (zero creep) break and still be safe. The mod only changed the trigger position for where it broke.... and the really nice thing - it fully resets if you let off without firing... Don't mess with the tension spring!

I did not have the excessive compression (hard to cock) problem at 7000' elevation but I can understand that issue at lower elevations.
No problems with pinching anything in this configuration - the scope makes an excellent cocking handle  :D

(https://i.imgur.com/cW8s7il.jpg)

If you're interested, here's how I hacked it up:
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?PHPSESSID=e954948fe94de2ab9cf24294ace04a00&topic=122164.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?PHPSESSID=e954948fe94de2ab9cf24294ace04a00&topic=122164.0)
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?PHPSESSID=e954948fe94de2ab9cf24294ace04a00&topic=122165.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?PHPSESSID=e954948fe94de2ab9cf24294ace04a00&topic=122165.0)

Wyo

Title: Re: P 17 problem
Post by: d-cuttler on September 03, 2018, 12:10:01 AM
Hi David, I made several trigger mods but finally found one that worked for me. Here's one idea:

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=129587.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=129587.0)

After the mod, the trigger was almost as good as my FAS 6004. What I've found with these high compression SSPs, is that you need to use the two-stage trigger to have a crisp (zero creep) break and still be safe. The mod only changed the trigger position for where it broke.... and the really nice thing - it fully resets if you let off without firing... Don't mess with the tension spring!

I did not have the excessive compression (hard to cock) problem at 7000' elevation but I can understand that issue at lower elevations.
No problems with pinching anything in this configuration - the scope makes an excellent cocking handle  :D

(https://i.imgur.com/cW8s7il.jpg)

If you're interested, here's how I hacked it up:
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?PHPSESSID=e954948fe94de2ab9cf24294ace04a00&topic=122164.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?PHPSESSID=e954948fe94de2ab9cf24294ace04a00&topic=122164.0)
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?PHPSESSID=e954948fe94de2ab9cf24294ace04a00&topic=122165.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?PHPSESSID=e954948fe94de2ab9cf24294ace04a00&topic=122165.0)

Wyo

Thats a P17 on steroids!

Also an interesting mod for the trigger. What did get my attention was a reference to inserting a shim ring at the step near the front of the barrel. I may look into doing that, because if the breech seal is not compressed, the gun will not operate under reduced pressure. I may take apart again to measure the diameter of the muzzle section, and look for some shim washers. Then the strap that holds the barrel in place becomes more of a retainer.
Title: Re: P 17 problem
Post by: Tater on September 03, 2018, 07:10:11 AM
Great pics David, very informative thread.
Title: Re: P 17 problem
Post by: avator on September 03, 2018, 07:37:51 AM
Hi David, I made several trigger mods but finally found one that worked for me. Here's one idea:

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=129587.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=129587.0)

After the mod, the trigger was almost as good as my FAS 6004. What I've found with these high compression SSPs, is that you need to use the two-stage trigger to have a crisp (zero creep) break and still be safe. The mod only changed the trigger position for where it broke.... and the really nice thing - it fully resets if you let off without firing... Don't mess with the tension spring!

I did not have the excessive compression (hard to cock) problem at 7000' elevation but I can understand that issue at lower elevations.
No problems with pinching anything in this configuration - the scope makes an excellent cocking handle  :D

(https://i.imgur.com/cW8s7il.jpg)

If you're interested, here's how I hacked it up:
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?PHPSESSID=e954948fe94de2ab9cf24294ace04a00&topic=122164.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?PHPSESSID=e954948fe94de2ab9cf24294ace04a00&topic=122164.0)
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?PHPSESSID=e954948fe94de2ab9cf24294ace04a00&topic=122165.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?PHPSESSID=e954948fe94de2ab9cf24294ace04a00&topic=122165.0)

Wyo
This don't surprise me in the least.. Gary is the air pistol GURU .
Title: Re: P 17 problem
Post by: d-cuttler on September 12, 2018, 08:29:53 PM
OK, I know there are a lot of anal folks in air gun land that obsess about velocity, and stuff like that, so I decided to run some tests on my modified P17 to find out what boring out the piston to reduce pressure, and make it easier to cock did to its performance.

I really stepped up to the plate, using the cheap low rent wadcutter pellets that Crosman sells in bulk for $11.95 in milk cartons of 1250. That’s less than one cent per shot. Yes I confess I have been accused of being a big spender!

I shot about 10 rounds, but did not really count, and here are the Chrony results:

Average    297.1 FPS
SD      3.46   FPS

This may not suit the Rambo big game hunters out there, but at 10 meters using cheap national targets pinned to a cardboard backing, I am getting nice clean holes. What more can I ask for?
Title: Re: P 17 problem
Post by: JnJHess on September 12, 2018, 08:51:35 PM
Amen to that, David.
Title: Re: P 17 problem
Post by: bandg on September 13, 2018, 05:45:22 AM
That is really what these pistols are best for-short range accurate shooting.  If you want a little more velocity try the lead free pellets-Predator makes some really good ones but they are a little expensive and may not be as accurate.  The bulk wadcutters shooting small holes should be just fine.
Title: Re: P 17 problem
Post by: avator on September 13, 2018, 07:18:49 AM
Exactly... The perfect mouser. No smelly litter box and it won't cough up a hair ball.
Title: Re: P 17 problem
Post by: pgritty on September 20, 2018, 09:55:12 AM
Finally got the air tube crimp cut out to remove the air tube from the valve body. Squared up the tube and replaced the oring. Reassembled pistol and took it out back shot a few rounds through it. Shot fine for 10 rounds and started getting weak. the suction of recocking was pulling the tube off of the valve body. Hence the need for a crimp. Don't know if I will pursue this any further. Probably just pick up a new P 17.
Pat
Title: Re: P 17 problem
Post by: cobalt327 on September 20, 2018, 10:31:26 AM
Use a fuel injection hose clamp to apply even pressure around the tube over the O-ring to hold the tube in position and keep it from bending then carefully peen the edge over in a few places to hold it on the valve. I would make several shallow cuts in the end of the tube to help keep it from distorting.
Title: Re: P 17 problem
Post by: bandg on September 20, 2018, 12:03:47 PM
I would certainly try to seat it with a bead of epoxy sealer at the base and then a crimp before the epoxy sets.  Might try golf club shafting epoxy as that stuff takes a beating and usually holds really well.  P17's are cheap enough for most to just buy another but if you can fix it, one more step down the road.
Title: Re: P 17 problem
Post by: pgritty on September 24, 2018, 11:06:59 AM
Mark, I decided to follow your excellent advice. See pictures. Put everything back together and it is shooting fine.

Had to add a new breather hole.

Put it back with it mate in the attache case.
Title: Re: P 17 problem
Post by: bandg on September 24, 2018, 11:44:14 AM
Nice work, glad you got it fixed.  Keep posting on how it holds.
Title: Re: P 17 problem
Post by: d-cuttler on September 24, 2018, 02:04:33 PM
I am glad you got it fixed.

I noticed that both air holes are on top. Is that the way it came from the factory? Mine is underneath making it almost impossible to oil unless I disconnect the piston, and swing it up to gain access.

I like my P17 so much, I think I will buy another while they are inexpensive just incase the new tariffs on China affect the price going forward.
Title: Re: P 17 problem
Post by: bandg on September 24, 2018, 02:21:25 PM
+1.  I bought a handful of them when I first shot one and realized how easy to improve and fundamentally accurate they are.  Still have a couple of new ones unopened and a few with various states of changes done. 
Title: Re: P 17 problem
Post by: d-cuttler on September 24, 2018, 03:21:15 PM
+1.  I bought a handful of them when I first shot one and realized how easy to improve and fundamentally accurate they are.  Still have a couple of new ones unopened and a few with various states of changes done.

I just placed the order for another P17 a few minutes ago. Probably just put it on the shelf in case I ever need it. A complete P17 costs less than a few parts for most other airguns.
Title: Re: P 17 problem
Post by: bandg on September 24, 2018, 03:25:26 PM
Exactly right. 
Title: Re: P 17 problem
Post by: pgritty on September 24, 2018, 08:59:17 PM
Good catch David. I put the air hole up so if I wanted to flush it out with oil or alcohol it would be easy. Local wallyworld has p17s for 33 bucks. Still the best value in the world of airguns.  Like you said and bandg affirmed, I've spent more on parts for other guns. And you are almost guaranteed to learn to work on airguns.
Lol.
Pat
Title: Re: P 17 problem
Post by: pgritty on October 08, 2018, 09:47:49 PM
Finally got a chance to chrony the repaired p17. Getting 370 to 380 fps. Before the repairs it ran in the mid 400's. Accuracy is still there and it's easier to cock.
Pat
Title: Re: P 17 problem
Post by: d-cuttler on October 09, 2018, 12:16:05 AM
Pat,

It's nice when things work out well. Congratulations.

I was showing my P17 & FAS 6004 to a couple of friends at work this morning, and one fellow picked up MY P17, held it, then picked up his phone, and purchased one off Amazon while we were talking.

Owning a P17 is a no brainer, and you are correct that you will learn a lot about airguns messing with it.