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All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Support Equipment For PCP/HPA/CO2 => Topic started by: mcoulter on January 05, 2019, 03:05:11 PM

Title: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: mcoulter on January 05, 2019, 03:05:11 PM
Well, I borrowed a better shop compressor and just finished a top off on my Joe B. Tigershark tank.  It started at 220 BAR (3190 psi) and shut off at 310 BAR (4500 psi) and did this in 80 minutes.  This is nearly 30 minutes faster than using my smaller shop compressor AND the noisy shop compressor ran a whole lot less.  When it does kick on it only runs for about 30 seconds, vs. 90 seconds with my smaller 100 psi 3-gallon husky.   

While I am always in the house when this is running, but I have gotten to the point where I just do other things and let it run listening for it to shut itself off.

Oh, this better shop compressor is a 150 psi 6-gallon porter cable which I set to 120 psi output.  Looking at my notes I have used the shoebox to top off my tank six times since getting it in mid-November  :-)
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Wayne52 on January 05, 2019, 03:30:50 PM
I really like my F10, I'm using a California tools compressor which is 2.2 CFM and I set it for 95psi-120psi and it sounds like it's doing about the same as yours.
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: KnifeMaker on January 05, 2019, 08:44:11 PM
Wow! I use my compressor that much in a week. GRRRR!!! And exactly why I am trying to source a long life unit. Affording it is the issue. ;D
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Sfttailrdr46 on January 05, 2019, 09:22:56 PM
The Freedom 10 should be as durable as my Freedom 8 and enough faster to be worth the price. I have had 4 years of trouble free service with my F 8
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Wayne52 on January 05, 2019, 10:40:08 PM
That's what I like to hear Don is how reliable the Shoebox is.
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Lani52 on January 05, 2019, 10:42:19 PM
I am on my 4th Shoebox compressor, bought the first one when they first came out.  Did a lot of upgrades that really made it like a new or second Shoebox, sold that to Nick in Eugene after I purchased a Freedom 8, sold that one to help pay for a 5 month trip to Asia in 2013, then bought my current F10 to feed the Bulldog, great reliable US mademachines.

And yes feed them with a good shop compressor, mine have lived off of a 5 gallon Harbor Freight that is 6 years old now.  I also keep it in a ac controlled room, humidity kept at 30, in addition to a water filter.  I remove the covers on mine and run a e12 inch fan on it, heat is the biggest foe of the Shoebox.

I recently took some heat over a chinese rifle I ordered, from a guy with a chinese compressor, ironic.

Regards,

 Roachcreek
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: mcoulter on January 06, 2019, 03:24:23 PM
Wow! I use my compressor that much in a week. GRRRR!!! And exactly why I am trying to source a long life unit. Affording it is the issue. ;D

Wow, that's great!  I'm hoping someday to "level-up" and shoot / use that much air!

 8)
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: KnifeMaker on January 07, 2019, 10:02:54 AM
Matt, you would think I would get bored shooting that much. But since I cast for the AG's, I am always testing different slugs, pellets, Lubes, HP's, It seems to never be a finished project.


Sure makes it interesting and learn something everyday. Free bullets by reclaiming my lead helps greatly, however, it is hard on the air supply. LOL!


My Altaros finally laid down recently. JUst needed a 1 dollar seal. I ordered spared recently to have them on hand. Super easy to tear down and replace the seal. However, it uses a LOT of air from a good compressor to run it, and my Ingersoll Rand is starting to object. LOL!! (Used the I.R. for years porting cylinder heads, so she has a LOT of hours on her).


Looking for a standalone unit now. Something with long life, without needing a second mortgage to own.  ;) [size=78%] [/size]
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: KnifeMaker on January 09, 2019, 09:04:34 AM
The casting is all RoachCreeks fault!  ;) Thank You RoachCreek!!!  8)
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Lani52 on January 09, 2019, 10:39:12 AM
And I am so proud of how my “student ‘ has taken airgun casting for all of us. :D

Roachcreek
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: KnifeMaker on January 09, 2019, 12:06:41 PM
Your faithful Padawan. Thank You Master!  It is very much appreciated!


Mike




Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: KnifeMaker on January 09, 2019, 12:11:32 PM
I am on my 4th Shoebox compressor, bought the first one when they first came out.  Did a lot of upgrades that really made it like a new or second Shoebox, sold that to Nick in Eugene after I purchased a Freedom 8, sold that one to help pay for a 5 month trip to Asia in 2013, then bought my current F10 to feed the Bulldog, great reliable US mademachines.

And yes feed them with a good shop compressor, mine have lived off of a 5 gallon Harbor Freight that is 6 years old now.  I also keep it in a ac controlled room, humidity kept at 30, in addition to a water filter.  I remove the covers on mine and run a e12 inch fan on it, heat is the biggest foe of the Shoebox.

I recently took some heat over a chinese rifle I ordered, from a guy with a chinese compressor, ironic.

Regards,

 Roachcreek




LOL! One fellow here said he went with the AV compressor because he didn't trust the Chinese compressor offernings. Please, nobody tell him where the "AV Is Made". LOL  ::)   
We do after all, want folks to be happy with their new toys. Busting bubbles isn't necessary.  ;)
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Lani52 on January 09, 2019, 12:59:50 PM
Mike,
For the last year or so I have been looking for that rock, well my vision is going and it was really just a pebble if you remember, your post reminded me that it was you who took  thep pebble from my hand grasshopper. ;D
 
Really tho, it started when you first milled the base off that 257420 mold.  I read what you have been doing during my absence from airgunnung and posting and Iam truly in  awe.

Maybe some day you can teach me how to post pictures again on this forum, which is another major change.

Roachcreek
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Sfttailrdr46 on January 09, 2019, 01:14:11 PM
Lani if you have a smart phone use it to take your pictures and then send them to yourself when you are ready to send you can resize them to fit the forum requirements. I find that the medium scale works best.
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: KnifeMaker on January 09, 2019, 08:37:23 PM
Yes That, what Don said. I take them, and sent them to myself and place in either pictures or documents. click on Attachment and other options down below, and select from your computer  when prompted.


Sadly, my computer is so old, it will not allow me to load any more in right now. Need to defrag one more time. LOL


And RC, thanks for the kind words. No where near deserved, but nice nonetheless!


Mike and Manuela


PS, If not for Jack Haley's work, and your use of it, there would probably be "NO" big bore revolution going on right now. The popularity is tremendous.
I remember well when you were scoffed at here for your efforts. Not that long ago at that!  ;)
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Lani52 on January 10, 2019, 07:07:07 AM
Thanks for the info, we do have a Apple Iphome but it is a Verison and I do not want to pay their internet fees.

We do have two 256 Ipad pro’s, Lani being the stereotyped asian beauty, I like my women light and lovely like the Skyhawk I took a berating on  ;D, loves gadgets so I have bought her a couple of the best Apple had, one is two years old or less and the other is less than a month and Verison IS not the carrier and we have WiFi here in the house, so I need to do it with the  iPads, do they do it the same?

And thank you for the compliment my dear friend.

Roachcreek
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Trigger_Finger on January 10, 2019, 09:01:07 AM


Why set the output to 120 psi? The F10 says it can handle 125 psi.
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Wayne52 on January 10, 2019, 09:28:36 AM
Alfonso I had to do a retake on the maxiumum in the instruction booklet and you're right, it says don't go over 125psi.  All this time I was thinking it was 120psi.  I think that the California tools compressor that I have the maximum output is 120psi even though I probably can turn it up to 125psi I doubt I will.  Right now my F!0 is really doing a fantastic job where it's set at so I'm gonna leave well enough alone and it's going to stay where it's at.
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: KnifeMaker on January 10, 2019, 11:57:42 AM
I wrote Tom Kay early yesterday morning with intent to purchace. Not one word back so far. GRRRRR!


RC, I forgot to mention John bowman and his huge contributions to big bore. GRRRR! Getting old and forgetful. Also RJ Porter. ;) ;D
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Lani52 on January 10, 2019, 12:08:40 PM
John Bowman did those things with poured bullets and airguns before 
I did, he just did not post about them like that
I. Did, or make the videos.  I learned so much from Bowman, what a fine gentleman he was.

But Toufazfou, Cedric, did the first long range cola can video, then I did the 500/, 550 and 615 yard video’s.

However Rifle50 took it further than any of us could.

Roachcreek
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: truck on January 11, 2019, 12:13:57 AM


Why set the output to 120 psi? The F10 says it can handle 125 psi.
I copied this from the F10 manual.

EDIT..I posted wrong information so I removed it
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Back_Roads on January 11, 2019, 12:32:44 AM
 That manual does not apply to the F-10 FYI
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: truck on January 11, 2019, 12:36:04 AM
That manual does not apply to the F-10 FYI
Thanks for pointing that out. I'm going to remove that manual info.
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Taso1000 on January 11, 2019, 12:39:19 AM
Barry,

That's from the manual for the Max version of the Shoebox.

Here is the F10 manual:

http://shoeboxcompressor.com/images/stories/f10-manual.pdf (http://shoeboxcompressor.com/images/stories/f10-manual.pdf)

Thanks,

Taso
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: KnifeMaker on January 13, 2019, 01:53:27 PM
guy's, I'm in a quandry here. I spoke to a well known AG builder and customiser here on the fourum and he stated that he had to replace the o rings on the F-10 almost every fill of a scba tank.


What are your findings?


I do know that I had to replace o rings at an alarming pace until I was selected by Tom Kay as one of the Silicone oil feed testers before it was available from shoebox. It really improved a LOT. Ended up not having to replace o rings but very infrequently.


Any input here would be greatly appreciated!


Knife
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: YEMX on January 13, 2019, 02:13:50 PM
...PS, If not for Jack Haley's work, and your use of it, there would probably be "NO" big bore revolution going on right now. The popularity is tremendous...

That 615 yard shot on that Pepsi can is what got me thinking about big bores!!
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Wayne52 on January 13, 2019, 03:12:45 PM
guy's, I'm in a quandry here. I spoke to a well known AG builder and customiser here on the fourum and he stated that he had to replace the o rings on the F-10 almost every fill of a scba tank.


What are your findings?


I do know that I had to replace o rings at an alarming pace until I was selected by Tom Kay as one of the Silicone oil feed testers before it was available from shoebox. It really improved a LOT. Ended up not having to replace o rings but very infrequently.


Any input here would be greatly appreciated!


Knife
Wow !!!! it sounds like the pistons are cocked a little Michael, they shouldn't wear out THAT fast.  I'd say things aren't aligned right myself. ???  Next time I ran that compressor I'd be eyeballing it very closely during assembly.  It sounds like things were off whack from the get go.  I'm sure being it's self lubricating that he's been keeping an eye on the felts.
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: AlanMcD on January 13, 2019, 03:28:59 PM
I have to agree that something is not right with that F-10.  I finally rebuilt / replaced the o-rings in my Max after 150 of hours of run time, filling to 4500 with almost every fill, and there was no visible wear nor change in fill rate after the rebuild.  I simply did it as it was past the time that Tom says the unit should need a rebuild and I wanted to do it anyways.  About 100 hours of that run time on those rings were prior to installing the auto lube kit.  I won't be doing that again for a long time . . . as I now lube them with Krytox oil.

With the lower fill pressure of SCBA tanks, something has to be very wrong to fail in probably under 10 hours of operation.  And if nothing is wrong with the Shoebox itself, I would suspect that the air feeding it must be dirty from contaminated hoses or something - that could explain it too (I have a 0.02 micron filter as the last step in my set up, just before a dedicated regulator on the input of my Shoebox).

Another thing - the reason I decided to put the micron filter on mine - is that desiccant beads can shatter and throw off silica dust if they get wet.  Silica dust would certainly chew up o-rings, so if he somehow has water getting to any desiccant he might be using that would certainly do it . . .

Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Sfttailrdr46 on January 13, 2019, 06:02:28 PM
 :o I have had my F8 compressor for almost 4 years and I fill a Guppy and two SCBA 45 minute tanks all to 4500psi about once every other month. I still lube with the white lithium grease every ~1.5 to 2 hours of fun time I have a small fan blowing on the Freedom 8 and another blowing on the air tank of the shop compressor . Also have a moisture and particle filter after the shop compressor. Have not needed to rebuild the F8 yet
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: DLP on January 13, 2019, 07:44:29 PM
I just rebuilt my MAX after about 150 hours of run time. This is the second rebuild in two years. My fault this time. The high pressure cylinders oil felt fell off. I haven’t checked it in quit a while. The inner Oring shattered. Must have heated up and became brittle. Very easy to rebuild. I emailed Ton Friday and asked about the differences between the MAX and the F10. Says the F10 is about twice as fast. So I ordered one! I have a couple 60 min, a 30 min and a couple Ninja bottles that I keep filled. Sounds like a lot of air on hand. But a couple buddies and I can have several rifles on the bench and a couple of them are bigbores. Doesn’t take long to blow through it. Plus they like having me fill their tanks too.
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: KnifeMaker on January 15, 2019, 09:32:45 PM
I will be very interested in you findings with it Darrell!


Mike
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: DLP on January 16, 2019, 01:32:15 PM
I will post what I find out. Suspose to be here Friday. Right now all tanks are filled. I don’t like the valve on my Scott tank. But I have a new valve like the one on my Drager tank to put on it. Might have to loose a tank full of air. Might shoot it up in the Badger this weekend too. Will report back.
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: KnifeMaker on January 16, 2019, 01:39:50 PM
Thanks! 8)


Knife
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Frank in Fairfield on January 16, 2019, 04:36:32 PM
My ShoeboxMax just died.
I salvaged the motor.
I can get free fills at one of my clubs (twice a month) and the local dive shop tops off for $5.00.
Shoebox 10 is now about $600.00.
Divided by $5.00 that is about 120 or so fills.
Hmm At soon to be 74 I might have to think that over.
It is not the money (I am not as loaded as I once was but....) but I don’t need to throw it away, like someone who lives with me does...
Maybe an Air Venturi compressor....
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Sfttailrdr46 on January 16, 2019, 04:40:06 PM
Frank what failed they are extremely rebuildable contact the manufacturer I spoke to him before I purchased my F8 and as simple a design as they are I can't see it being a total loss. Perhaps he can do an inexpensive rebuild for you.

PS; I'm 72 and plan on needing a compressor for my PCP rifles well into my 80's in fact I think Old Gringo has me beat by several years
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Taso1000 on January 16, 2019, 05:23:35 PM
Hey Frank!

I too am curious to as to how your Shoebox died?  I figured the most expensive component would be the motor and you basically said that's ok.

All the other parts shouldn't be too expensive to replace.  Maybe it just needs a rebuild?

Thanks,

Taso
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: truck on January 16, 2019, 08:10:51 PM
My ShoeboxMax just died.
I salvaged the motor.
I can get free fills at one of my clubs (twice a month) and the local dive shop tops off for $5.00.
Shoebox 10 is now about $600.00.
Divided by $5.00 that is about 120 or so fills.
Hmm At soon to be 74 I might have to think that over.
It is not the money (I am not as loaded as I once was but....) but I don’t need to throw it away, like someone who lives with me does...
Maybe an Air Venturi compressor....
Shoebox F10 is listed at $499.00, now you have to refigure your fill quantity. :D
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Wayne52 on January 16, 2019, 08:20:50 PM
Mine was about $550 shipped to my door. I didn't have an airless compressor so that was another $150 then the accessories another $50 and finally the high side filter which was another $28.  That comes out to a grand total of $778.  I've been using the California air tools compressor more than the F10 though, it's very quiet and when I need an airhose it's really handy, I used it today as a matter of fact ;D
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: KnifeMaker on January 16, 2019, 08:56:48 PM
Yep, should be salvageable. Gotta remember folks, he is in  Cali. and has to pay taxes on it. So his cost is right on.  ;)
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Frank in Fairfield on January 16, 2019, 09:21:42 PM
$499.00
S&H
INSURANCE
EXTRA O-RINGS....

I couldn’t get the c-clips out to rebuild the cylinders.I tried to different c-clip pliers.
PITA
Finally I got the thing apart and then back together.
Hooked up a partially filled tank and my shop compressor.
The air in the tank went down instead of up.
Too noisy, too.
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: KnifeMaker on January 16, 2019, 09:49:01 PM
Never heard of a noisy F-10. The F-10 is much=much quieter than the Max by a long shot!  ;)

Knife 
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Wayne52 on January 17, 2019, 09:53:15 AM
I wonder if Tom has ever made a compressor just like the F10 with larger diameter piston rods.  I'm tempted to send him an email asking him.  If he has made one I'm sure that for some reason he stuck with the basic Shoebox design, it is a time proven compressor.
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Frank in Fairfield on January 17, 2019, 10:54:21 AM
Never heard of a noisy F-10. The F-10 is much=much quieter than the Max by a long shot!  ;)

Knife

No...The SBMax is noisy....Mechanical shutoff.
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Sfttailrdr46 on January 17, 2019, 11:00:56 AM
Never heard of a noisy F-10. The F-10 is much=much quieter than the Max by a long shot!  ;)

Knife

No...The SBMax is noisy....Mechanical shutoff.
I think the SBMax is the last generation before the SB Freedom 8 mine is belt drive and electronic shutoff. I also paid ~$1000 4 years ago when I purchased it, now the F10 is ~$499 I seriously consider giving my F8 to my younger brother and getting the F10 for myself  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: mcoulter on January 17, 2019, 11:35:02 AM
now the F10 is ~$499 I seriously consider giving my F8 to my younger brother and getting the F10 for myself  ;D ;D

What's that I hear?  The enablers are coming!  The enablers are coming!  Yup, you opened the box...  And after all, giving the f8 to your brother is the right thing to do!

 ::)
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Wayne52 on January 17, 2019, 11:59:47 AM
Never heard of a noisy F-10. The F-10 is much=much quieter than the Max by a long shot!  ;)

Knife

No...The SBMax is noisy....Mechanical shutoff.
I think the SBMax is the last generation before the SB Freedom 8 mine is belt drive and electronic shutoff. I also paid ~$1000 4 years ago when I purchased it, now the F10 is ~$499 I seriously consider giving my F8 to my younger brother and getting the F10 for myself  ;D ;D
Seriously no clankity clank with the F10, even my ultra quiet Cal compressor is considerably louder with less vibration as well and the Cal comp is quiet to boot.
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Frank in Fairfield on January 18, 2019, 12:12:30 PM
Well, I ordered one.
I watched about 50 videos dealing with the Yong Heng.
While I impressed with the speed, it looks bothersome to me.
I will order spares later on...
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: KnifeMaker on January 19, 2019, 12:26:48 AM
They want a signature. Odd to say the least. Never heard of that one before. They sent a sheet, fine, but I don't have a way to post pics from my camera, not can I copy their forum. More time wasted. GRRRRR!!!


I wonder if they had an issue with cc fraud. Why else would they want a pre-signature?


Knife
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Lani52 on January 19, 2019, 04:54:31 AM
Probably just wants your akutograph Mike ;)
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: truck on January 19, 2019, 09:02:12 AM
Here is the email I got from them.

Dear Customer:

 

Thank you  so much for your ShoeBox Compressor Order! (a copy of the order is below)

 

As stated in the ShoeBox product description and due to new regulations and the high volume of credit card fraud we have experienced, we have had to implement additional security protections. We are required to request a copy of a photo ID AND your signature authorizing this purchase. Alternately, we can accept a copy of the front of the credit card used in the purchase in place of the photo ID.

 

You can scan/email one of the above, along with a signed copy of this email,  to me or send via fax to 520 843 4782, attn: Carol.  If you have problems printing this out, we can accept a hand printed note documenting the highlighted info below which you can photograph and email to us.  If we do not hear back from you within 72  hours we are required to cancel your order and refund the card for the total amount.

 

For the signature, please print out this page, sign, and print your name and date here:

 

 

I authorize the purchase in the amount of $ _________.____   to be paid to Technicor Industries, Inc:

 

 

 

_____________________________________________________   

Signature

 

 

Print Name:____________________________________________

 

 

Date: ________________

 

 

We sincerely apologize for the hassle, but we hope you understand that our concern (and the additional requirements) is for your protection as well as ours.

 

Please let me know if you have any questions.

 

Thanks again, and,

 

Kindest Regards,

 

Carol Kaye

Technicor Industries, Inc

www.ShoeBoxCompressor.com (http://www.ShoeBoxCompressor.com)

em: [email protected]


This is the first I've had to do this but they claim credit card problems are causing the extra step. Lots of scammers out there.
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: FuzzyGrub on January 19, 2019, 09:26:47 AM
A good number of years ago when I bought the Max, had to go thru the same signature hassle.  My guess, like others, he got screwed at some point, and the cc company didn't cover it.   It is a PIA.
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Frank in Fairfield on January 19, 2019, 10:31:15 AM
They want a signature. Odd to say the least. Never heard of that one before. They sent a sheet, fine, but I don't have a way to post pics from my camera, not can I copy their forum. More time wasted. GRRRRR!!!


I wonder if they had an issue with cc fraud. Why else would they want a pre-signature?


Knife

That is exactly what they told me Michael.
I scanned everything, using my Retired Military ID Card for signature.
She took another $50.00 off the price.
Fabulous.
Did I tell you how much I like the current crop of veterans?
We never had this treatment coming home from VietNam..
I had to fight my way through Seattle-Tacoma Airport when I came home...
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: DLP on January 19, 2019, 10:38:49 AM
I received my F10 yesterday. Haven’t had a chance to set it up. Snowing hard today. Might play with it after checking out the gun show. Not a big deal verifying the CC bit. Print off the email they send you. Sign it and fax it back. I didn’t mind that. But having to track down the UPS driver to sign for the compressor not worthy. I know it just safety for me and Tom. But I work and no one is home for deliveries.
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Wayne52 on January 19, 2019, 11:32:15 AM
I received my F10 yesterday. Haven’t had a chance to set it up. Snowing hard today. Might play with it after checking out the gun show. Not a big deal verifying the CC bit. Print off the email they send you. Sign it and fax it back. I didn’t mind that. But having to track down the UPS driver to sign for the compressor not worthy. I know it just safety for me and Tom. But I work and no one is home for deliveries.
I think you'll like it Darrell 8)
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Frank in Fairfield on January 19, 2019, 01:32:19 PM
Maybe we should post some new photos of our setups...
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: KnifeMaker on January 19, 2019, 05:51:48 PM
Yeah,m tell me about it Frank. I was USAF in those times.


I can't print here, so it will be a long process getting the sig to them.
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Frank in Fairfield on January 19, 2019, 06:09:33 PM
I think they need it within 72 hours.
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: KnifeMaker on January 19, 2019, 08:14:57 PM
Already talked to Miss Cathy. All good. ;) 
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Frank in Fairfield on January 19, 2019, 08:41:12 PM
Already talked to Miss Cathy. All good. ;)

Excellent
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Frank in Fairfield on January 21, 2019, 04:08:17 PM
F10 will be in Fairfield...Thursday
When I had my ShoeboxMax I used desiccant filters on the line from the shop compressor to the Shoebox.
I bought these at Harbor Freight.
They are only good for 85psi.
I found some on AMAZON for 125psi.
I will also run a dryer (300bar) from the F10 to the tank..
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Wayne52 on January 21, 2019, 05:13:39 PM
Frank I bought that same hi side filter you're getting or already got.  Mine is still in the box yet still taped shut, haven't used my pcp's recently, it's been very cold here in Michigan and too cold to go squirrel hunting for these old bones.
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Frank in Fairfield on January 21, 2019, 05:22:06 PM
Cold here in the North Bay too.
60 degrees.
Just out washing the Silverado..

BTW...Phu Cat AB 1968-69
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: AlanMcD on January 21, 2019, 06:19:46 PM
The only drawback I see with those post Shoebox driers is that we have to wait for them to pressurize before we get to fill our tanks, and the Shoebox is admittedly on the slow side.  I went with a massive Wilkerson drier on the input side and have had great results with it, including verifying that no water was making into my Guppy tank after having pumped over 780 cubic feet of air through it in fills.

I think they will work fine, but you do have to wait for them them pressurize before you get any usable air.
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Lani52 on January 21, 2019, 06:38:37 PM
I bought two of the compressor to Shoebox drier, from McMaster Carr, have one now even though my humidity is around 32 percent most days.  I found the little HB  Filters leaked, so I went to the  McMaster Carr one’s  when I was working as a pester on the vineyard outside of Eugene or.  The humidity in western Oregon is so bad folks fall off their bicycles and drown :D

Roachcreek
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: DLP on January 21, 2019, 08:21:02 PM
Same HF filter I am using. I have my Max inlet feed set at 90 psi. I bought a few of these when they had them on sale for $4. Thanks for posting that you can get the 125 psi ones too. Most important thing is to drain your compressors tank often. Saves a lot of the Decontestant (sp) filter’s lives.
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Frank in Fairfield on January 21, 2019, 08:59:20 PM
The 125psi filters I posted and ordered are on the way.
When AMAZON acknowledged the order they showed some more down the page.
Orange.
Half the price.
Made in (wait for it).....USA
Next time I get those..
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Frank in Fairfield on January 21, 2019, 09:14:16 PM
Also the F10 has the silicone oilers.
I found using an eyedropper works great.
Or a pipette if you have some..
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: FuzzyGrub on January 21, 2019, 09:53:42 PM
The only drawback I see with those post Shoebox driers is that we have to wait for them to pressurize before we get to fill our tanks, and the Shoebox is admittedly on the slow side.  I went with a massive Wilkerson drier on the input side and have had great results with it, including verifying that no water was making into my Guppy tank after having pumped over 780 cubic feet of air through it in fills.

I think they will work fine, but you do have to wait for them them pressurize before you get any usable air.


Alan,

The one Frank selected, is about twice the size of the one I use on my Max.  Same OD, just longer.   It is significantly smaller than the "gold" filter that are discussed in multiple threads.   I don't think it will be a big impact with the F10.   I do agree that there is benefit in adding more input filtering beyond the small disposables.

Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Lani52 on January 21, 2019, 10:13:09 PM
My first Shoebox, 1sr generation, had to be rebuilt often, I got used to putting silicone grease on my fingers and rubbing a small amount on the piston shafts, the machine was unplugged of course.  Over the years the rebuilds got fewer and further apart,  as the generations improved,but I still do it.

Old habits are hard to beat, I still run it with the cover off and a 12 inch fan blowing on my F10.

Tom Kaye is one fine gentleman btw.

Roachcreek
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Frank in Fairfield on January 23, 2019, 09:51:31 PM
Tomorrow night and both tanks are full.
I better do some shooting in the am..
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Wayne52 on January 24, 2019, 07:19:34 AM
I have been using the 90psi between my compressor and shoebox and haven't had any problems up to 120psi so far (knock on wood)  I am going to get a couple of the ones rated for 125psi soon for mine but until I do (if this winter gets a little warmer for hunting) I've got two full 87cf tanks that are full for now.
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Lani52 on January 24, 2019, 08:58:56 AM
I suspect that when you go above 150 psi, on a cold start, you will blow a fuse.

Mine has seen little use as I just got it and if I try to start it that high mine will blow a fuse, so I turn it on without the shop air feed and the bleed open, and then add the shop air, then close the bleed and open the tank valve.

Maybe it is just too new and tight, but my shop compressor is set at 150, and after reading this thread a light came on in my mind, yeah a dim light for sure but a light none the less, so I turned my shop compressor down to 150 psi, but have not run the shoebox since.

I will run the system on a cold start at 125 today to see if I blow a fuse after the neighborhood wakes up as my shop compressor is loud.

Roachcreek
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Back_Roads on January 24, 2019, 10:19:23 AM
 I have had zero start issues using 125 PSI.
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: mcoulter on January 24, 2019, 10:22:38 AM
I have had zero start issues using 125 PSI.

^^^^ Same here.  I will say that the Shoebox's faceplate does interfere with the movement of the starting lever on my unit.  It won't quite allow the lever to move far enough to kick on.  This would be easy to fix with a minor trim on that channel but I just have not gotten to that yet.  I have probably topped off my Tigershark sized tank 7-8 times now and it has not missed a beat!
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Wayne52 on January 24, 2019, 10:29:36 AM
I'm not even so sure that the F10 can be regulated up that high with the regulator that's on it.  Mine was doing 3800psi out of the box, I turned it up to 4500psi.  I figure Tom probably ships them like that cause it does take a little while to adjust them to where you want them.   Plus shipping them at 3800psi keeps you on the safe side IMO.  The same thing happens with other products that aren't performing like they're advertised.

When I did the adjusting I'd give the regulator adjustments a quarter turn to begin with and that was after I'd used the tank down to 3600psi when I fill them, it took me about four different times but I finally got it zeroed to 4500spi on the fill gauge.
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Lani52 on January 24, 2019, 10:35:31 AM
Wayne,

Mine was also in that 3800 range, in preperation for my JSAR Bulldog tube, I recently set it to 4500 psi.

The cover issue is easily fixed, take it off and store it somewhere where you won’t trip over it, then run a 12 inch fan directly into the unit.Heat is the real villain with the Shoebox that little fan let’s it run way too hot.

I have run fans on every generation that I have owned.

Roachcreek
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Wayne52 on January 24, 2019, 12:18:45 PM
He's got the PDF of the manual on his website too which I downloaded, it sure makes reading about it easier on a screen than out of the manual IMO but the manual that comes with them is the same thing just smaller.
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Lani52 on January 24, 2019, 01:07:32 PM
I hate small instructional printing, who can read that stuff, medicine instructions are the worst.

My 2 IPfad Pro’s  a 12.9 and a 11: can blow most texts up so I can read it, but still I can;t follow a sentence thru a paragraph.

I have written two novels, but as I write this, I am functionally illiterate.

Kudo’s to this thread for remindinding me that I needed to check my compressor psi.

Roachcreek
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: FuzzyGrub on January 24, 2019, 01:13:52 PM
FWIW: I have the same electronic shutoff on my Max as the F8 had, and probably same for F10.  I have mine set for 4600psi and is tested prior to each fill.  I charge the hose up and make sure it shuts off, prior to opening the tank valve.  It has never required any re-adjustment. 
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Lani52 on January 24, 2019, 03:02:07 PM
Your right on all counts Fuzzy, when I got my F8 a few years ago, I loved that shut off after a few years of listening to that flatter on the early model.  And I really like how easy it was to adjust once I figured out which wrench to use, but on all of them I used  the hose to check the fill max, and to see if it was time for a rebuild.

On a side note, when I made the 12 ounce cola can/257 Haley  Scandalous 500,550,615 yard video’s, I drove from the vineyard to my old mountain place where I had a 1100 yard range, to my surprise the journey from 30o ft elevation to 5700 ft elevation,raised my tank gauge from 4500 psi to 5300 psi.

Roachcreek
Mk


Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Frank in Fairfield on January 24, 2019, 03:10:19 PM
The lack of clacking noise is good but I didn’t mind it.
When the Beverly Hillbillies next door have their pot parties, I used to run the compressor (s) to keep them company.
Now the noise will just come from the shop compressor to serenade them... ;)
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Wayne52 on January 24, 2019, 04:33:50 PM
I haven't even used my F10 in a couple weeks at least now, just haven't been using air, mainly co2.  I pretty much got all my pcp's right where I want them so there's no chrony testing, hunting or even plinking, just to dang cold out there lately and REALLY dry which makes it feel even colder than what it is.
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Taso1000 on January 24, 2019, 05:27:12 PM
I suspect that when you go above 150 psi, on a cold start, you will blow a fuse.

Mine has seen little use as I just got it and if I try to start it that high mine will blow a fuse, so I turn it on without the shop air feed and the bleed open, and then add the shop air, then close the bleed and open the tank valve.

Maybe it is just too new and tight, but my shop compressor is set at 150, and after reading this thread a light came on in my mind, yeah a dim light for sure but a light none the less, so I turned my shop compressor down to 150 psi, but have not run the shoebox since.

I will run the system on a cold start at 125 today to see if I blow a fuse after the neighborhood wakes up as my shop compressor is loud.

Roachcreek

Lani,

Couldn't you just put a regulator with a lower pressure setpoint (125 psi) on the intake of your Shoebox so you don't have the locking up issues?

Thanks,

Taso
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Sfttailrdr46 on January 24, 2019, 05:32:18 PM
I think the 125psi  is the recommend booster pressure Like all compressors you want the start differential pressure to be as low as possible the higher the feed pressure the more amps are being drawn by the motor when it is first starting to spin up. Lock rotor amperage can be significantly higher than full running load amperage. That's why an A/C system will be installed with a breaker that can be as much as twice the full load amperage. That is also why most circuits with electric motors in the old days used what is known as slow blow fuses.
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Lani52 on January 24, 2019, 06:10:05 PM
Thanks guys, I have. HF 6 gallon 150 psi compressor, I started it up two days ago and reset it to 125 psi, just have not run it yet to fill my tank again.

With 12 or more concussions from fights,green colts and Polaris adventures, it had slipped what is left of my mind. :o


Roachcreek
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Frank in Fairfield on January 24, 2019, 08:58:50 PM
Arrived.
Assembled, lubed and ready to go.
Plugged it in and it ran.
The Milton Desiccant Filters arrived too.
Made in the USA.
When I had the ShoeBoxMax I ran of the other kind from Harbor Freight.
Hmm.
I think I will try only one from the shop compressor cause I have the other 300BAR filter for the line from the F10 to the tanks..
Neat little tool accompanied the F10 to remove the o-rings when needed.
No more dental picks.
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: KnifeMaker on January 25, 2019, 05:58:55 AM
I use the same system with the Shoe box I do with the Altaros, and is recommended on the self contained compressors as well.


Start the compressor, or booster with the bleed open. this will remove any residual moisture from previous fillings. (A good idea to let it bleed after a fill before putting it away).


Shut bleed, and once the pressure in the line is at, or slightly above bottle pressure, I open the bottle valve. Never an issue using this system.


Knife
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Sfttailrdr46 on January 25, 2019, 08:38:55 AM
That is pretty much my procedure with the F8 and so far so good 4+ years and counting
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: AlanMcD on January 25, 2019, 09:06:35 AM
I do a similar procedure with my Max, with a slight twist - I vent the lines by letting the air flow through the unit before starting it, and then close the tank bleed valve and start it up and let the line pressure build to a few hundred psi with the valve to the tank closed, then vent it, then let it build several hundred psi again.  At that point I slowly open the valve until pressure equalizes over several seconds of operation, then I close the valve to verify that pressure is building properly.  Once I see that, I open up the valve all the way and let it do it's thing.

If I am doing a long fill to a tank (over an hour or two) I typically pop in and briefly close the tank valve to verify that everything is running right, then open it up and leave it alone to finish.

While I do pretty much ignore it while it is running, I have not run it when I leave the house or go outside for extended periods of time.  I do try to stay in the house so that I can hear if something goes horribly wrong, which fortunately has not ever happened - although back in the past while testing it with the mechanical shut off disabled and running on a timer, I once did forget to FULLY reopen the valve after checking the fill was going well, and it resulted in the line pressure building so high that burst disk popped and the tank started to vent.  That was scary, but not truly bad - popped a new disk in an all was well.  Given that the Shoebox had to get to over 7500 psi to blow that disk, it sure showed how robust it is, as it was no worse for the event.  Now I always make sure that the tank valve is open all the way when filling just and case (and I still run it on timer so that if unit fails to build pressure it won't run forever).

Also, when venting when done filling I always do that using the bleed valve on the Shoebox and not the tank - that results in blowing any lube or condensed water out the Shoebox and not into the tank's hose . . .
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Frank in Fairfield on January 25, 2019, 10:32:26 AM
Alan,
While waiting for the new F10 I had the tanks filled at the dive shop.
I noticed when they started filling, they opened the valve on the tank all the way, then closed it one turn before filling. I supposed that was to make sure everything was open and the air was flowing freely.

To tell the truth when filling til now I always bled the hose after shutting everything off. Starting now I will bleed at the Shoebox. I always dump the air out of the shop compressor after every use. I never store air in the shop compressor.

Thanks for good advice.
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Frank in Fairfield on January 25, 2019, 04:59:08 PM
Ran the F10 for the first time.
Wow!
Filled the 18 cu ft Benjamin tank from 2900-4500 (checked the shutoff before filling) and the pump stopped exactly at 4500psi..
22 minutes.
You can see the needle moving on the tank gauge.
I could not de-gass the line at the Shoebox though.
Either the grub screw on the knob is stripped or it is loose so I used the tank de-gasser..
I will check it when everything cools off.
The ShoeBoxMax and 85psi took one hour to fill the Benji.
One third of the time with the F10.
I noticed with the higher motor speed, it does vibrate a bit.
I may have to put the F10 on the floor.
I like it...
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: AlanMcD on January 25, 2019, 07:00:56 PM
Frank,

I don't know why, but I find the bleed knob on the Shoebox very hard to open when under pressure.  It turns freely for a few turns, but just before it opens it stops.  On mine it just takes more concentrated effort to get it to open.  As I said, I don't know why but it spins freely when not under pressure.
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Wayne52 on January 25, 2019, 11:52:13 PM
Alan it's the pressure in the line that does that alone, at first I also bled mine at first from the tank as well, it is just hard to turn and takes a little more grit.
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Nvreloader on January 26, 2019, 12:37:43 AM
Frank

I used to run my F-10 sitting on the tile floor in the sun room,
wife made the comment that is was kinda loud when running, IMHO, I didn't think so, but I am 80% deaf in both ears,  ::)
found a piece of ETHA FORM,1/2-3/4" thick, used in packing material for equipment that need extra cushion,
comes in white or black colored, and is very firm in construction.

Cut the Etha Foam down to fit the footprint of the F-10, set the F-10 on top of the foam,
and turned it on, Surprise, better than 50% of the noise was gone.......... ;),
was filling a couple of the SCBA tanks to 3500 psi, so the F-10 runs for less than 2 hrs.

Now, if I could find a way to quite the air supply comressor down, I would be tickled pink,
even with it outside and the supply air line run thru a cracked window,
with a pool noodle sealing the window crack, it is loud..........

HTH,

Tia,
Don
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Humdinger on January 26, 2019, 09:49:52 AM
Frank

I used to run my F-10 sitting on the tile floor in the sun room,
wife made the comment that is was kinda loud when running, IMHO, I didn't think so, but I am 80% deaf in both ears,  ::)
found a piece of ETHA FORM,1/2-3/4" thick, used in packing material for equipment that need extra cushion,
comes in white or black colored, and is very firm in construction.

Cut the Etha Foam down to fit the footprint of the F-10, set the F-10 on top of the foam,
and turned it on, Surprise, better than 50% of the noise was gone.......... ;),
was filling a couple of the SCBA tanks to 3500 psi, so the F-10 runs for less than 2 hrs.

Now, if I could find a way to quite the air supply comressor down, I would be tickled pink,
even with it outside and the supply air line run thru a cracked window,
with a pool noodle sealing the window crack, it is loud..........

HTH,

Tia,
Don

Don, the answer to your dilemma is to replace your noisy compressor with a quiet one from either California Air Tools, or a Rolair JC-10, or even the new quiet model from Harbor Freight.  Most pancake type compressors or under $100 compressors are buzzy no matter what you do to insulate them.  You have a quiet Shoebox F10, now get a good quiet first stage compressor and you'll be set.
I have an old video on Youtube I made several years ago with my  F8 Shoebox and a Rolair JC-10.  Very quiet and ear friendly setup.
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Frank in Fairfield on January 26, 2019, 10:28:12 AM
I noticed the F10 has large suction cups on the bottom.
I do not remember seeing these on the ShoeBoxMax.
I will put a few drops of water on the cups and push the F10 down and allow the cups to attach..
If there was something wrong (even a little bit) with my Porter Cable I would get a California Compressor but the PC is running fine, albeit noisy.
My back fence butts up against a major street (noisy). I was thinking of running a 20 yard long air hose from the PC by the fence, back into the garage where the F10 is.
Should solve any noise issues..
Side note, the PC comes on less often with the F10 than the Max.
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: BountyHunter1976 on January 26, 2019, 04:19:50 PM
I have a 6 gal pancake cheapo I was using to feed my f10, it puts out 150psi and I cranked it all the way to that. I have another filter regulator right before the f10 that I set at 100psi and then the cheap hf dessicant filter. But it is so noisy in the house that I switched to the california air model 8010 that is on sale at amazon and it works great. The sound of it running is about the same as my f10. It only produces 120psi tho, but its worth the quiet running and it did not kick on as much as the pancake, the 8010 has an 8 gallon tank. It's on sale for $143. The only complaint about the new compressor is it drops to about 75 to 80psi before kicking back on but does not take very long to build back up and it did not seem to change the fill time very much on my rifles.
Here's the link to the california air tools compressor I bought.    Allan
https://www.amazon.com/California-Air-Tools-8010-Compressor/dp/B00WM1VPKE/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1548533264&sr=8-3&keywords=california+air+tools+8010 (https://www.amazon.com/California-Air-Tools-8010-Compressor/dp/B00WM1VPKE/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1548533264&sr=8-3&keywords=california+air+tools+8010)

Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Wayne52 on January 26, 2019, 04:49:11 PM
To adjust the start pressure of mine I adjusted "A" first then adjust "B" for the cut off pressure.  What I did was adjust B first because if you adjust A to high to begin with and then B your output pressure will go up.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4912/31043350157_fdffe4d991_b.jpg)

I have mine to the air compressor kicks on at 95psi and then shuts off a 120psi.  The model that I have is only rated for 120psi output like yours but when I got it it was only doing 100psi output.
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: BountyHunter1976 on January 26, 2019, 06:26:11 PM
To adjust the start pressure of mine I adjusted "A" first then adjust "B" for the cut off pressure.  What I did was adjust B first because if you adjust A to high to begin with and then B your output pressure will go up.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4912/31043350157_fdffe4d991_b.jpg)

I have mine to the air compressor kicks on at 95psi and then shuts off a 120psi.  The model that I have is only rated for 120psi output like yours but when I got it it was only doing 100psi output.

Thanks Wayne, I'll have to give it a shot. Will make it kick on maybe 3 times instead of twice.

Allan
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Wayne52 on January 26, 2019, 07:14:28 PM
Allan that compressor you have there is basically the same as mine but a much bigger tank.  Those new Harbor Freight ones are about the same too. The best one they have they claim 130psi output but I only want the max of 125psi input to the Shoebox.  It has been topping my tanks off pretty good.
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Lani52 on January 26, 2019, 09:30:34 PM
I am lucky with my HF 6 gallon compressor.  It ran the 2nd and third generation Snoeboes, and now the 495 dollar F10.

Adjustment was right at the limit of my electrical ability these days, I faced the compressor while it was running, reached out with my right hand, while holding my manning glass, ssquinted  my one good eye, grasped the pressure adjustment knob, turned it and it hissed slightly and slowly I adjusted it down to 125 PS.

Like I said, a lucky break, got it the first time. :o

Roachcreek
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: KnifeMaker on January 27, 2019, 02:24:31 AM
Blind Roach finds Bread Crumb. Well Done RC! 8)


Mike
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Lani52 on January 27, 2019, 02:49:15 AM
Hey Mike,

Even a blind squirrel gets a nut now and then.

Roachcreek
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: KnifeMaker on January 27, 2019, 05:55:41 AM
Hey, who you call'n Squirrel?  ;D
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Wayne52 on January 27, 2019, 06:27:34 AM
Here's a thread I started at the beginning of November 2018 about adjusting the California Air Tools air compressor's. It's for adjusting the output and start fill pressures. https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=151063 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=151063)
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: KnifeMaker on February 09, 2019, 10:16:56 AM
I am lucky with my HF 6 gallon compressor.  It ran the 2nd and third generation Snoeboes, and now the 495 dollar F10.

Adjustment was right at the limit of my electrical ability these days, I faced the compressor while it was running, reached out with my right hand, while holding my manning glass, ssquinted  my one good eye, grasped the pressure adjustment knob, turned it and it hissed slightly and slowly I adjusted it down to 125 PS.

Like I said, a lucky break, got it the first time. :o

Roachcreek




RC, the F-10 came in last night. Much nicer, quiter, and faster than I expected.


I did notice that the oil sent is thinner than what was first tested in the felt pads. I need to contact them and find out what the cST weight is.
Mike
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Lani52 on February 09, 2019, 01:45:03 PM
Your going to love it.
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Wayne52 on February 09, 2019, 02:08:05 PM
Michael I think you'll really like it as well, Shoebox from what I've been seeing has come a long way since their first ones.  You're right they're not really all that loud at all I don't think.
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: KnifeMaker on February 09, 2019, 07:01:31 PM
The test run was sure impressive! Miles different than the first generation. Huge difference!


I debated the purchace for months. It was not an easy decision, which way to go. I'm happy with finally getting it, and although I bought it as only a backup for the altaros, It will be the lead compressor now. ;)


Knife/Mike
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Wayne52 on February 10, 2019, 01:01:47 AM
Once I got everything the way I wanted it mine tops an 87cf from 3650psi up to 4500psi in about an hour and ten minutes quietly without any noticeable sounds of it laboring in doing so.
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: KnifeMaker on February 10, 2019, 05:23:10 AM
That's perfect Wayne, as I rarely go below 3600 psi in the tank.  ;)


I would like to pick up a valve for the spare  Scba tank I have. I need to order one. 


Mike
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Wayne52 on February 10, 2019, 05:36:51 AM
Another thing that I did notice when adjusting the regulator on the Shoebox was the fact that it does turn up kinda hard so evidently the spring in the regulator is a strong one.  I only did a quarter turn at a time when adjusting mine.  First mine would stop at about 3800psi and it took about three different adjustments before I got it to 4500psi.
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Lani52 on February 10, 2019, 07:27:01 AM
It took me quite a while to figure what size wrench to use, where to put it, but once I got that sorted it was a easy adjustment.

But it should be easy for you folks that do not use the brail methology like I do.

Roachcreek
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: KnifeMaker on February 14, 2019, 03:19:52 AM
Another thing that I did notice when adjusting the regulator on the Shoebox was the fact that it does turn up kinda hard so evidently the spring in the regulator is a strong one.  I only did a quarter turn at a time when adjusting mine.  First mine would stop at about 3800psi and it took about three different adjustments before I got it to 4500psi.


First time I ran it, it shut off at 4500  filling the whip only. Once the bottle was open, it stopped at 3800. I set it, and it filled to a full 4500. Next run, it went to 3600 and stopped. Had to set it again. I guess the shut off thigy has to break in?


Knife
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Wayne52 on February 14, 2019, 06:17:23 AM
When I did adjust mine I waited til my tank was used back down to where I wanted to fill it, I'd then turn the adjustment screw on the regulator in 1/4 turn and fill the tank again.  I did this until my the fill pressure was what I wanted and it's been good since.
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Back_Roads on February 14, 2019, 10:21:57 AM
 I have been kicking around the idea of while filling my regulated AV 4500 90 cu in bottle, I could feed my scuba tanks to 2900 of the regulated feed from the 90 cu bottle. In theory the Shoe Box should shut off when the bottle hits 4500 , which should occur when the SCUBA hits 2900 psi.
 But I regress due to the fact that I like to top my scubas to 3100 psi.  :-\
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Frank in Fairfield on February 14, 2019, 10:51:24 AM
Let me try to respond to several posts.
I filled the Benjamin from 3000-4500 in 22 minutes.
The compressore shut off at exactly 4500psi.
I filled the AV 74 cu ft from 3500-4500 in 1 hour 27 minutes.
I know Tom said the F10 has a larger motor and I notice there are suction cups on the bottom of the F10.
I think this is to keep the F10 from walking cause mine does vibrate a bit.
It is much more efficient than the Shoebox and ShoeboxMax, IMHO.
My 6 gallon Porter Cable comes on about every 9 minutes as opposed to every 4-6 minutes with the earlier Shoeboxes.
I notice there is less plumbing and the cylinders are larger too.
I like the way the fan comes on before and after the motor starts/stops.
I spoke to Tom years ago about silicone oil and I sent him a photo of what I use.
He said it was fine. I use an eye dropper to apply the oil...
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: FuzzyGrub on February 14, 2019, 11:14:34 AM
I filled the Benjamin from 3000-4500 in 22 minutes.

That is almost exactly half the time my Max did, before the drive gear change. 

Did the F10 go from the 1/3HP to 1/2HP motor?  Should be on the motor plate.

Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Wayne52 on February 14, 2019, 11:23:03 AM
The F10's are 1/3 HP John.
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: FuzzyGrub on February 14, 2019, 11:31:19 AM
The F10's are 1/3 HP John.

Thx Wayne.
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Frank in Fairfield on February 14, 2019, 01:26:21 PM
I filled the Benjamin from 3000-4500 in 22 minutes.

That is almost exactly half the time my Max did, before the drive gear change. 

Yep....My Max did it in one hour flat..
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: AlanMcD on February 14, 2019, 01:36:18 PM
Frank,

There was one thing you said that really has me confused:

My 6 gallon Porter Cable comes on about every 9 minutes as opposed to every 4-6 minutes with the earlier Shoeboxes.

Can you explain this?  Did something change in your settings?  If the F10 is putting out more compressed air that the older ones, it has to be using more air from the shop compressor, and this sounds it is using less . . . .

Is that what has you thinking it is more efficient? Efficiency is a function of some unit of output per unit of input, and that would make sense, as I doubt that it truly is much more efficient (they both use all the air fed to them for compression, so the only other meaningful measure would be based on usage of electrical power - kudo's to you if you measured and calculated that!  ;) ).

If you could explain what is going on with the shop compressor that would help.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Frank in Fairfield on February 14, 2019, 03:38:58 PM
Alan,
I am a retired air traffic controller so, physics is not my game.
The ShoeboxMax with the Porter Cable (PC) (6Gal) running at 85psi had the PC coming on every 4-6 minutes.
The same PC compressor set at 125psi comes on about every 9 minutes with the F10.
Less noise in the garage...none from the F10 ;)
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: AlanMcD on February 14, 2019, 10:07:57 PM
Frank,

If you kept all those planes in the air and separated over all those years, then your physics is OK by me!  ;)

So if the compressor settings were changed, then that makes sense.  Thanks for the clarification.
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: KnifeMaker on February 14, 2019, 11:33:17 PM
Something that struck me as odd, the old Original I had, # 34 if I remember correctly, put out a very small puff of air each spin of the compressor. The F-10 puts a much harder puff of air out. Not only is it faster, but puts out much more air per turn of the arm. Much more than I would have thought, even with the additional air input.


I am having trouble getting the pressure cutoff working properly. If in needs breakin, fine. However, if it continues, I will need to contact the Kaye's.


First run, hose connected, valve closed on bottle to check cut-off. Stopped at 4500. Open bottle and shut off at 3600. Second run, Shut off with hose only at 5500, bottle at 4200. Weird! :o
Knife
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Back_Roads on February 15, 2019, 12:31:03 PM
 I wonder if that has something to do with the added head pressure in the vessel,  I have never directly dead headed my f10, there has always been a Joe B HPA filter inline when leak testing. I will have to lessen the air volume with a dead head of the compresor and test this out.
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: KnifeMaker on February 16, 2019, 03:59:50 AM
Apparently it does. Miss Carol talked to their tec. and it is tested before leaving the shop tuning a short hose and )apparently a dead head) without bottle. If I understood correctly. She said the larger the bottle, the faster it will shut down.


So I have to play with it! ;)
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Wayne52 on February 16, 2019, 07:37:06 AM
Ahhhhh that explains why the odd ball stuff you had happening Michael ;D  I never did check mine with a dead head, just the gauge that's on my fill adapter on the 88cf tank that I was feeding.
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: KnifeMaker on February 16, 2019, 07:53:02 AM
Ahhhhh that explains why the odd ball stuff you had happening Michael ;D  I never did check mine with a dead head, just the gauge that's on my fill adapter on the 88cf tank that I was feeding.


Wayne, it went to 5,500 (By accident, with a dead head). Oop's!


It shut off a tick above 4,500 so all good now. Just hope it does so again!


Mike
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: mcoulter on March 02, 2019, 07:04:47 PM
I have not shot PCPs much in the last month or so here's an update with fill times using my older, smaller, and under-powered husky compressor  :-)  My husky cuts on at 75 psi and cuts off at 100psi.  So it really is not optimal...  Anyways it's what I have!

210 Bar (starting pressure)
240 Bar at 35 minutes
270 Bar at 60 minutes
290 Bar at 1 hour 35 minutes
320 Bar at 2 hours 10 minutes

So far I have 10 hours and have done 7 top-off / fills.     

Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Wayne52 on March 02, 2019, 10:24:12 PM
Matt driving the F10 I use a Cal compressor, I adjusted it a low of 95psi to a high of 120psi, mine fills from 3600psi to 4500 psi in an hour and five minutes approximately.
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: KnifeMaker on March 02, 2019, 11:22:41 PM
Mine was filling a bit slow. I noticed that the gauge on the reg was showing .125, but the gauge on the whip connection to the inlet of the sb  was showing 105.


 I checked it to the compressor which has always matched the scba fill whip and bottle gauge. Yep, the reg gauge was way off.


I ran the reg up until the inlet whip said 125 and left it there. Man, it really picked up! 8)


This new F-10 is so much quieter, and faster than the old first generation. I'm really enjoying it! 


I was going to use it as a back-up for the Altaros. It ended up being exactly the other way around.  ;D


Mike
Title: Re: Shoebox F10 update
Post by: Wayne52 on March 02, 2019, 11:28:14 PM
I never did check my California Tools compressor with anything other than the two gauges that are on it, both of them match each other perfect when it shuts off.