A fall good-by to co2 rifles....
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A fall good-by to co2 rifles....
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Topic: A fall good-by to co2 rifles.... (Read 1475 times))
Ribbonstone
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 12030
A fall good-by to co2 rifles....
«
on:
October 15, 2018, 10:27:06 PM »
OCD post. on dual 12g co2 rifrifles and I got side tracked by the nice weatherand a wandering consentration.
#1: 5mm QB12grc conversion:
5mm rebarrel 12gr. QB (the only QB I still have running on 12gr.). Peed-away the first 20 shots beecause I got all OCD abot cutting down some weeds by shooting them....but it'sgood for something like 50-52 shots at about 12 foot pounds. (lets piolitely say that's 610 foot pounds per 24grams of co2).
And this using 3rd rate pellets. (OK...now they are 2nd place in this rifle as the Crosman CP'shave been discontinued).
So basically 12 foot pounds (a lot like a Sheridan factory pumper's energy) for about 1.3MOA average at 20 yardfs for 6 X 5-shot goups.
#2: An RWS/UMEREX/WEalther 850 12gr.rifle, running from two 12gr.
This one something like .36 for 8 shot groups at 25 yards, and puts out about 9.1 foot pounds for 60-65shots.(lets politely call it 590--591 foot pounds per 24grams of co2)
Not real sure for a conversion factor between 5-shot and 8-shot groups (although the 8-shot groups should alawys be larger) and the "extra" 5 yards (20% farther than 20 yards) should also get a conversion factor.
Basicdally 1.3moa (although it should rate better becasue of the 8 shots in the group...but also should be worse as it'sonly 16 shots vs 30 shots).
After the two group (16 shot) session...I got all OCD again and starting shooting weeds once more.
Won't have to run the weed-wacker in that area.
QB Mods:
Actually,reconverted form an HPOA/tanker conversion.
1. Runs on a box-stock QB valve.
2. Rebarrled it with a 5mm HW barrelblank and modded the bolt/bolt probe.
3. Gas path (which would be thr transfer port...but in this case it'sEVERYTHING fgrom the barrelhole to the valve hole) runs 2.5MM (and maybe it wobbled a little,so lets call it .11").
4. Striker lightend about 22-23%. Lots of folks on this board will tell you that'snot enough,but most of them were not trying for 11-13foot pounds. It does seem to make a (good) difference at that level of power.
5. Striker sping is a junk-box spring that I'm 97% sure is a standard (old) QB spring.
6. scoped/ LDC added. Not a "fancy" scope,just a cheap 3-9X 32mm AO Leapers(back then, they sold for $35-$39).
RWS 850 (or whatever you ant to call it):
1. Did open it up enough to adjust the striker spring a SLIGHT bit stiffer (added a .18"shim under the striker spring).
2. Added the scope and the LDC extention.
BUT...and it is an important "but"...it is FAll heading into winter. The co2 rifles are going to getgreasedup andoput away.hey'll wake upeitehr during a wram spell or come next Spring.
«
Last Edit: October 15, 2018, 10:33:42 PM by Ribbonstone
»
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Louisiana
wolverine
GTA Senior Contributor
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yes
Real Name: Carl
Re: A fall good-by to co2 rifles....
«
Reply #1 on:
October 16, 2018, 01:47:05 AM »
I would think based on where you're located you'd still have a few weeks left for CO2 guns. I'm in northern illinois and just this week brought my 2260 inside from the garage. The 2400kt will sit on the floor register below the window, warm and ready for when the starlings come.
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anti-squirrel
How'd I become a
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Real Name: Peter
Re: A fall good-by to co2 rifles....
«
Reply #2 on:
October 16, 2018, 09:33:33 AM »
I bought one extra 15-pack of powerlets to keep fresh stock handy for my 2400KT, so of course the next day the temps dropped into the 50s.
It appears we can control the weather by our actions. Water the garden or wash your car and it rains. Summer gone on too long? Buy some more CO2 and the temperatures will drop.
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Quinton Virginia
Slingshottist and antique tool junkie
EdGuns, Crosmans, and a couple big-bores from the Far East
Hoosier Daddy
The sound of silence
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Re: A fall good-by to co2 rifles....
«
Reply #3 on:
October 16, 2018, 11:01:01 AM »
Already planning my indoor shooting range improvements for my CO2 guns.
gonna be a loooonnnngggg 6 months I am afraid.
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Kendallville, IN
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JimQwerty123
always said ...
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Ribbonstone
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 12030
Re: A fall good-by to co2 rifles....
«
Reply #4 on:
October 16, 2018, 05:55:54 PM »
This is certainly one of the climates (New Orleans) where co2 can be used almost all year (got up to 89F here today...still about 83F)...but I still put most of them away before hunting season in order to get more use to other rifles.
But for indoors (even though these two pictures were taken oudoors),I do have 12gr. co2 cures for the short range I can get totally indoors.
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Louisiana
Hoosier Daddy
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Re: A fall good-by to co2 rifles....
«
Reply #5 on:
October 16, 2018, 06:13:34 PM »
Ohhhhh. A CO2 Crosman Challenger is on my want list.
Sadly not at to top. Their T bolt issue worries me.
Your Hybrid Rotek is one I wish I would have snatched up while they were available.
So for now I will stick to my AR2078-B, Xisico XS-60C, Crosman 160's Gen I Gen II, and my Sheridan Model F.
«
Last Edit: October 16, 2018, 06:26:04 PM by Hoosier Daddy
»
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Kendallville, IN
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JimQwerty123
always said ...
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Ribbonstone
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Posts: 12030
Re: A fall good-by to co2 rifles....
«
Reply #6 on:
October 16, 2018, 06:46:41 PM »
Yeah...Crosman tends to reuse names...which adds to the confusion.
That's an old Challenger 2000 made for 12gr. It didn't sell real well,likely because it's not really "match grade". Basically it's the last of the brass barrel soldered to a brass tube Crosman co2. But you can get the trigger in line, and although it is super picky about what it will shoot well, it can shoot well.
So at the top is a Crosman 2009 PCP Challenger.
At the bottom is a Crosman 2000 12gr. Co2 Challenger.
Any way....the 2000 Co2 challenger version's T-handle is simple and pretty much can't screw up. I'ts a latch built into the left side of the "T" that locks to a spot in the breech.
Could Crosman keep such a simple/fool proof system when they went to the PCP version?
Of course not...simple was"out" and over complicated was "in".
The PCP version's T-handle is a totally over complicated system just waiting to screw you...then you rebuild it's little ball-bearing lock up...and it waits to screw you again. Want to know why?...because Crosman used a little skinny o-ring as a lock washer (O-Rings are for pressure...not for lock washers).
I've only put up with it becasue it can shoot to match levels. But to live with it, I gave up on rebuilding the samned bolt, and just use a rubber band (which won't work if you hot rod one,but works with the little "piffs" of air of match rifle speeds).
But unless Croamsn puts Challenger 2009 PCP version on serious sale, for just about the same money, can buy a CZ 200T PCP...and I'd really recommend the CZ over the Challenger 2009 PCP.
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Matchstickshooter
Are we there yet?
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Real Name: Wendell
Re: A fall good-by to co2 rifles....
«
Reply #7 on:
October 16, 2018, 06:52:31 PM »
Shhhhh! (stand over the floor register in the dining room and shoot out the window!)
we may have snow in the forecast...
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USA, VT, Lyndon
Habanero69er
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Re: A fall good-by to co2 rifles....
«
Reply #8 on:
October 16, 2018, 07:03:41 PM »
Still plenty warm here in Florida. Unless there's some sort of a freak weather occurrence, Co2 should still be good here up until January.
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Ormond by the Sea, Florida, USA 🇺🇸
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Nvreloader
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Posts: 4252
Real Name: Don
Re: A fall good-by to co2 rifles....
«
Reply #9 on:
October 16, 2018, 07:27:44 PM »
The Co2 can work around here now, as I found out, cost me $$........
The G-son spent to weekend with us, while his dad was on quideing trip, and the G-son pick up one of the Ham 850, 17 cal co2 rifles,
and asked if he could hunt HS/starlings/magpies and squirrels around the 10 acre place.
I HAD placed a bounty on these pests for him to thin out of 25 cents/50/75/$1.00 for each, (when he had his old pump up BB Crosman AR),
the most I had ever payed out was $5.00.
We checked the sights, dead on @ 25 yds, screwed in a new 90 grm bottle, give him a new full can of CM pellets, and he hit the door.
A couple of hrs had pasted and he came in and and told me the 850 had quit working,
I checked it, and found that it was out of Co2, I replaced the bottle, not thinking anything about it, and off he went......
Just before dark, I heard him come in the back door, and watched him clear and make it safe and remove the magazine,
and returned the Ham to it's spot....... he had a Smirky grin on his face, (kinda like, I got you now, G-pa),
and was talking to G-ma real low, while watching me from the kitchen.
He walks up to me and said "G-pa, does that bounty you placed on the pests still hold"?
I told him it did, and he got real excited and started dancing around, held out his hand and said "Pay me".....
I asked for what?
He ran to the back door and grabbed a paper shopping bag, and said "For these",
I could see some blood spots on the bag and figured he had dirt napped a couple of pests.
The bag was 1/4 full of pests, and I owed him $20.00
I had forgot, he was using my Ham 850, which will drive tacks @ 25 yds,
so now, I'll have dicker with him to change the bounty fees, as I am out of coffee money for the month.
I kinda got a warm and fuzzy feeling, seeing what he had done,
When I went to grab the 850 this AM, and when I picked up the can there was less than 2 dozens pellets left,
I got to watch him, as he his as sharp as a tack, when can pull one off on me, only being 14 yrs old........
I am getting scared...........
The Ham sets right by the furnance vent and stays at 70* now, it's now my go to, out the window/door pest Thumper......
Tia,
Don
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Western NV
4 Sheridan 64/67 yr models - 20 cal/Hammerli 850 Air Mag -17 cal x 2, + 22 cal /QB-79 - 22 cal /Guantlet - 22 cal / Crosman 150 - 22 cal, Second Variant Model / Crosman 160 - 1st Variant Model - 22 cal /MRod Varmint 22 cal /Sentry 705-2 - 22 cal /Sentry 705 - 9T - 25 cal / Dar 17 cal /22 cal Discovery / Dragon Fly II 22 cal / Diana Storm Rider 17 and 22 cal /
CF 4500 45 min SCBA tanks x 3, w/SB F-10 compressor
"Speeds fine, but Accuracy is final"
"We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker,
It is time to restore the American precept, that each individual is accountable for their actions."
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Habanero69er
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Re: A fall good-by to co2 rifles....
«
Reply #10 on:
October 16, 2018, 07:41:40 PM »
Good story Don. Sounds like you've hooked the grandson on airgun hunting...for a bounty.
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Matchstickshooter
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Re: A fall good-by to co2 rifles....
«
Reply #11 on:
October 16, 2018, 07:42:20 PM »
Great Story!!
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USA, VT, Lyndon
Hoosier Daddy
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Re: A fall good-by to co2 rifles....
«
Reply #12 on:
October 16, 2018, 09:07:55 PM »
HA HA HA!
Great one Don, He got you good for sure...!
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Kendallville, IN
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JimQwerty123
always said ...
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Nvreloader
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 4252
Real Name: Don
Re: A fall good-by to co2 rifles....
«
Reply #13 on:
October 16, 2018, 10:14:58 PM »
Thanks Guys
The G-son has been taken on the trapline, hunting and fishing since he 2 yrs old, (just like I did with his Dad),
by his Dad and G ma/G-pa, old enough to walk, old enough to go.,
I had him shootin the Red Rider at about the same time and he has been progressing faster than I can believe,
he is on the youth Trap squad, and is rated in the top 3 of his squad, in the 1st yr.
He won a Win 243 CF rifle at the NBH sheep dinner last yr, brought to me and told me "To make it shoot good" G-pa,
so I built/HL his 95 Nosler Part custom ammo, he just killed a 26"+, 4 pt MD @ 300 yds, 1S1K, Dirt napped right there, just a week ago.
Hunter has won a rifle or shotgun for the last 4 yrs, running, I got tickets ahead of him and behind him, and won paper tickets.
4 days later, they got onto a group of cow Elk, (he won the drawing AGAIN, 4 times in the last 4 yrs),
,
my son had his friend with him, he won a tag also, and my son was trying to get his friend his first cow, his friend shot, dead cow,
Hunter snatched up the 7 mag, and ask if he could shoot, Ya, which one, "Blam", the one takin a dirt nap right there...
1S1K at just over 200+ yds.
Needless to say, I am very proud of him and my son and daughter, which also hunts, when she draws a tag.
Hunter holds a straight "A" average in HS, or he his grounded from hunting, per his Dad.
I got 3 G-daughters that are about ready, 2, 4, and 6 yrs old, from my daughter side, 2 and 4 yr are well started,
all ready shooting the pellet guns, helpin G-pa reloading, sorting brass etc, the 6 yr old is into dressing up scene,
I don't think she is going down the outdoors path...... yet, but I am trying very hard and gettin OLDER.....................
Back to regular programming...............I have ambushed RS post enough..........Sorry
Tia,
Don
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Western NV
4 Sheridan 64/67 yr models - 20 cal/Hammerli 850 Air Mag -17 cal x 2, + 22 cal /QB-79 - 22 cal /Guantlet - 22 cal / Crosman 150 - 22 cal, Second Variant Model / Crosman 160 - 1st Variant Model - 22 cal /MRod Varmint 22 cal /Sentry 705-2 - 22 cal /Sentry 705 - 9T - 25 cal / Dar 17 cal /22 cal Discovery / Dragon Fly II 22 cal / Diana Storm Rider 17 and 22 cal /
CF 4500 45 min SCBA tanks x 3, w/SB F-10 compressor
"Speeds fine, but Accuracy is final"
"We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker,
It is time to restore the American precept, that each individual is accountable for their actions."
Ronald Reagan
Ribbonstone
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 12030
Re: A fall good-by to co2 rifles....
«
Reply #14 on:
October 16, 2018, 10:25:21 PM »
Can understand that quite well.
Think I started hunting about age 9 10....under pop's supervision. By 14 or 15 was going with him and his friends, and kept that up most of my teen's and into my 40's. Pop passed away, but I hunted with his buddies (and his spirit) yearly until the last old boy passed away at 91.
Admit, we never hunted all that hard once they got into their 70's and 80'sand much of my time was spent as the "go-fer", but I'd trade a WHOLE lot for one more hunt with them.
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Louisiana
TerryM
Expert
Posts: 1576
yes
Re: A fall good-by to co2 rifles....
«
Reply #15 on:
October 17, 2018, 09:00:46 AM »
There are plenty of mild days in winter where I live. If it's to cold out for CO2, I'm likely saying indoors anyhow.
My favorite 12 gram guns are my Crosman 180s. Model 114 my favorite bulk fill.
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TX
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101, 108, 110, 112, 113, 114 (x2), 118,
140, 180 (x3), 187, 400, Mark II, 1377, 1322, 150, 122CG, Sears 126.19311, Ted Williams Match Rifle (2nd variant 160) Self made 180-400-114 hybrid carbine
Benjamin model#
312(x2), 317, 342, Discovery
Sheridan:
Blue Streak (x2: '64, '67)
F model CO2 Blue Streak (converted to bulk fill)
Ribbonstone
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 12030
Re: A fall good-by to co2 rifles....
«
Reply #16 on:
October 17, 2018, 06:56:22 PM »
Bought a 180 some years back just because of time-past....had one long-long ago, and I really did like that little "dwarf sized" rifle.
Thing is, it's the same as the dual cylinder 160..same valve..same striker..etc….it just holds a single 12gr.
Some came with a little bit of adjustment for the striker...some came with two sears on the striker (a high and a low power)….some came with neither...some likely (haven't seen one) came with both.. Mine has the two sear notches, with high putting out 9.6 foot pounds and low putting out a bit over 12 foot pounds.
I have kept that poor old externally rusty rifle in some pretty harsh places (like the garden too shed), still keep the open sights...but it'skind of like the other garden tools,you grab it when something needs shooting (at least in the warm weather where there is something still growning in the garden that needs defending).
As for co2 temp., I keep it real basic: if I want a lite jacket/sweater to be out and about, I leave the co2's in.
«
Last Edit: October 17, 2018, 06:58:43 PM by Ribbonstone
»
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Louisiana
Xptical
Plinker
Posts: 125
yes
Re: A fall good-by to co2 rifles....
«
Reply #17 on:
October 19, 2018, 04:42:44 PM »
Low 60s today. I wrapped my QB78 with a heating pad and a temp probe. I got her up to 100 and shot all morning with no issues.
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GA, USA
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Wayne52
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Posts: 31841
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Real Name: Wayne
Re: A fall good-by to co2 rifles....
«
Reply #18 on:
October 19, 2018, 04:48:52 PM »
I stopped using my CP2 for yard guard quite some time ago, I've been using my Prod (quiet) for a while for yard guard. It's just too dang cold for them here in Michigan.
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USA, MI, Grand Rapids
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Ribbonstone
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 12030
Re: A fall good-by to co2 rifles....
«
Reply #19 on:
October 19, 2018, 07:01:48 PM »
I'd need a real long extension cord. Just not quite that dedicated to co2, are some PCP's tuned for mild speeds that generally get used in cool/cold weather.
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Louisiana
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A fall good-by to co2 rifles....