GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Machine Shop Talk & AG Parts Machining => Topic started by: Wepster on November 21, 2021, 06:02:47 AM
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First, I am not a machinist (in any way shape or form).
I would like to buy a set of metric taps and dies, hobby quality. The smaller common sizes is what I think I would use. Please, what sizes for airguns should I make sure the set includes? Any suggestions on a lower priced set you have experience with will be appreciated. I see a lot of sets online, Ebay, Amazon etc. The sets at MSC and McMaster Carr are too dear for my once in a while use. But I do believe I do not want carbon steel, I coud be wrong.
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For hobby use, harbor freight or northern tool will get you started with a basic set. 6mm and under would be applicable to airguns (fasten-wise).
After that, buy higher quality single taps of the sizes you use the most.
Proper tapping technique and using tapping lubricant is critical to prevent oversized holes or snapping the tap off.
JMJinNC
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Can't give you advice as to sizes; but for your use, the average carbon steel sets should be OK...
IF-you do not intend to tap stainless steel; I have a SAE Craftsman set that I use, and can tell you that the grinding, while perfectly acceptable for other materials, possibly short of alloy steel; is not all that it should/could be and WILL work harden the stainless-leaving you with a broken tap, and ruined workpiece... Otherwise, I'd just caution that you will be replacing individual taps/dies eventually-likely in the smaller sizes, or taps that you intend to push to the limit/use a lot (deep holes-I broke the 1/4-20 one in my set relatively quickly, but I was tapping full-depth into gummy mild steel plate, many times). When you do, upgrade that particular piece to a quality HSS one-Cleveland Twist and Greenfield Threading were the two brands that I found best where I worked previously...
And as already been said, look up technique, and get a good lube-WD-40 works well for aluminum, stainless (if you must) really benefits from/needs special moly-based lubes (stinky and will brown/rust steel), steel there are a wide variety of good lubes available, and in a pinch heavy gear oil does work; but is a real pain to get cleaned up afterwards...
Plus it stinks too ;)
Jesse
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I buy good quality taps as needed. So far I only have two metric taps and both were for screws in triggers. You will not need a tap often. I also purchase the appropriate size drill bit for the given tap. I try to get a good quality cobalt bit specific to the purpose and keep it with the tap. The correct size bit is crucial to the process. I have no metric dies nor have I needed any.
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I got this cheap set and it has been very useful, has both fine and coarse threads,
also use make an offer and you may get it cheaper.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/192271831057? (https://www.ebay.com/itm/192271831057?)
Hth's,
Don
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By memory, I think the largest tap or die I've used working on airguns is 1/4-20 or 1/4-28, smaller numbered taps/dies are more common. Agree that 6mm is about as large for metric as you'll find. If used rarely, probably doesn't have to be made of HSS. The set Don mentioned would cover just about anything metric you'd run into, but I can't tell if it has any imperial pieces (description is conflicting), which are more common for US made or vintage airguns.
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Several years ago a machinist friend of mine suggested I purchase the best tap & die set (as complete) I could afford. He also said to replace the individual pieces with top-quality as they wore-out or broke. This way I would have a complete set to fit my needs and the best quality for those pieces used most often. Has worked for me ever since.
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The day you break a cheap tap in an expensive piece you'll regret not spending a little more. Even a cheap tap is harder than the drill you'll use to try to remove the pieces.
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tap quality and tapping skills are inversely proportionate.. A very skilled machinist can tap a stainless rod freehand with a harbor freight tap..But a newcomer would have a hard time doing the same with a 100 dollar tap.. What im saying is , if youre new to tapping parts, its far easier to buy the taps as needed in the 8-15 dollar range than to learn on a cheap set.
What Jim said right above me
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Key thing to not breaking a tap- keep the top of the tap turning the same speed as the bottom of the tap, trust me, I had 45 years in a machine shop.
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I forgot to mention there are different types of taps for each size. For most purposes a tapered tap will do. For holes that don't go through you may find a bottoming tap is a better choice. Do a bit of surfing for types of taps. You don't commonly get a bottoming tap with a cheap set.
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Thank you all for your insight. Think I am going to get a cheap set, then replace broken with good ones (or frequently used with good ones). Getting good ones for the ones I need is good advice, and I would follow it initially if I knew which I needed! Do not have a particular need at the moment, but the Dayton set I bought years ago (SAE) has come in handy.
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i used to make taps for besly, don't buy carbon taps they are junk , buy high speed . regal makes a good tap was our competitor, tapco, north american tool, just 2 mention a few
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Thank you all for the input.
Think I will get inexpensive first, then replace with good as I need.
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First, I am not a machinist (in any way shape or form).
I would like to buy a set of metric taps and dies, hobby quality. The smaller common sizes is what I think I would use. Please, what sizes for airguns should I make sure the set includes? Any suggestions on a lower priced set you have experience with will be appreciated. I see a lot of sets online, Ebay, Amazon etc. The sets at MSC and McMaster Carr are too dear for my once in a while use. But I do believe I do not want carbon steel, I coud be wrong.
A while back I was needing a fine thread M7x.75 tap and die to make a HW96 pivot bolt lock nut and bought this cheap Harbor Freight tap and die set because it actually contained this rare thread size........
https://www.harborfreight.com/hand-tools/specialty-hand-tools/tap-die-sets/carbon-steel-metric-tap-and-die-set-40-pc-62832.html (https://www.harborfreight.com/hand-tools/specialty-hand-tools/tap-die-sets/carbon-steel-metric-tap-and-die-set-40-pc-62832.html)
It contains these sizes........
3-0.5, 3-0.6, 4-0.7, 4-0.75, 5-0.8, 5-0.9, 6-0.75, 6-1.0, 7-0.75, 7-1.0, 8-1.0, 8-1.25, 10-1.25, 10-1.5, 12-1.5, 12-1.75mm, 1/8 in. NPT
I prefer hex socket screws to the slotted screw that came with my HW springers and the above set allowed me to make a few custom drive screws........
(https://i.imgur.com/153goSF.png) (https://i.imgur.com/Bt0Nhw7.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/PiHBsRz.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/lTgJEz8.jpg)
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Ed, that's a great idea. Thanks