GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => American/U.S. Air Gun Gates => Topic started by: DanD on February 11, 2018, 01:00:41 PM
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SIG made in New Hampshire.
https://youtu.be/HT0ZT3TgnGw?t=11m13s (https://youtu.be/HT0ZT3TgnGw?t=11m13s)
Have fun!
Whoops. I didn't realize someone else already started a thread on this:
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=138647.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=138647.0)
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That Patent Pending Wedge Locking System looks very Hatsan-ish... :o The .22 model, looks great with the Italian made wood stock! Wait, I thought they said it was U.S. made... ;D
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As if Sig Sauer needs ANOTHER distraction from their pistol line....
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Let's hope the scope rails don't fall off on this new "American" break barrel. :o Looking forward to a thorough review.
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I have always liked SIG and I like the looks of the rifle- didn't know they were branching out beyond PB's.
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It is now showing up on the new products page on Pyramyd Air since 2 days.
In 177 and 22 Cal's and in synthetic and beech stocks.
Here is the link:
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/sig-sauer-asp20-gas-piston-breakbarrel-air-rifle-synthetic?m=4598 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/sig-sauer-asp20-gas-piston-breakbarrel-air-rifle-synthetic?m=4598)
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It is now showing up on the new products page on Pyramyd Air since 2 days.
In 177 and 22 Cal's and in synthetic and beech stocks.
Here is the link:
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/sig-sauer-asp20-gas-piston-breakbarrel-air-rifle-synthetic?m=4598 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/sig-sauer-asp20-gas-piston-breakbarrel-air-rifle-synthetic?m=4598)
Kinda pricey for Sigs first foray into break barrels. I'll have to let some more adventurous folks take the first crack at this one.
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First they said in the video....USA Built then they said USA Made.
Which one...BUILT to me means assembled with Chinese parts in the US. Made... means whole gun is US.
Anybody know?
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Looks like a nice piece.
I’ll bet it gets those power claims, too.
A little rich for my blood, I think.
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First they said in the video....USA Built then they said USA Made.
Which one...BUILT to me means assembled with Chinese parts in the US. Made... means whole gun is US.
Anybody know?
I just called them.
Japanese parts assembled here.
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Interesting. The owner of SIG Sauer, L&O Holdings, is also now the parent of Diana.
According to Hector Medina, who is working with them, Diana is "rebuilding itself" in part by selling other people's products, to wit, the Stormrider.
So, this could be a "Diana" or an original SIG design.
Umarex also made/makes a lot of homage airguns under other people's brands, e.g. Colt, Beretta, S&W, etc. but SIG Sauer apparently wasn't one of them.
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Did a little digging on this rifle. Comes with a 4lb. trigger, can be adjusted down to 2.5 lbs. That's a deal breaker for me, I'll pass......
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Did a little digging on this rifle. Comes with a 4lb. trigger, can be adjusted down to 2.5 lbs. That's a deal breaker for me, I'll pass......
Sig should know better than to price it at this entry point. Unless they are just being greedy which doesn't surprise me given the rampet greed for the green back.
At this price point I'd be looking at the German made break barrels.
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I'm Old School, I like the wood. :)
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I'm Old School, I like the wood. :)
The wood stocked one is $429.99 :o https://www.pyramydair.com/product/sig-sauer-asp20-gas-piston-breakbarrel-air-rifle-beech?m=4597 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/sig-sauer-asp20-gas-piston-breakbarrel-air-rifle-beech?m=4597)
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I'm Old School, I like the wood. :)
The wood stocked one is $429.99 :o https://www.pyramydair.com/product/sig-sauer-asp20-gas-piston-breakbarrel-air-rifle-beech?m=4597 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/sig-sauer-asp20-gas-piston-breakbarrel-air-rifle-beech?m=4597)
That's HW98 $$$ purchased from Krale-Scheitsport! I'm interested to see how this all "American" break barrel pans out. Looking forward to a real world review from someone who doesn't work for the company that sells them.
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Really nice looking gun
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Yeah, nice gun. But dark, funky stock color and too over-priced for a .22 rifle with about the same power as the Striker 1000x .22. Even the 1000x vortex is no more than 170 bucks.
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Uh...$429?!??!?!? I'm gonna say this is WAYYYYYY too much. I got my RWS 350 Magnum for $250 and I'll just be it will shoot rings around both in accuracy and in power vs. this SIG.
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I payed $495 for my HW35E and $400 for my HW80, to me the price is not out of line. I will wait an see when it hits the market as far as how accurate it is.
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Respectfully, Joek, HW's have a build quality, performance and reputation to be worth that kind of money. SIG, first time into airgunning, would be hard pressed to, out of the box, bring something to market that would rival either of those guns - I am skeptical, but will wait for the reviews...
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I would not turn my nose up on a SIG P226 lol. Like you I'll wait and see
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Well, Sig-Sauer is swiss-made. So I'm curious as to how it'll stack up against Diana, Umarex, RWS, etc. Their Crux .22 pellets (10.03gr) are pretty decent in my 160 Pellgun Co2 rifle so far. Gotta try them at the range at 25yds though.
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I can not see that being a money maker for them. Just too many good lower priced break barrels out there to chose from.
I bought a Gamo swarm with scope & 10 shot magazine, with more power for $150 less? Is this rifle $150 better?
Fly
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I spent some time shooting this new Sig at the airgun show today. I like it. The wood stock had a fair bit of heft to it and the whole thing felt solid. The ambidexterous safety placement is different, but works, and it is not automatic. It was a little hold sensitive as should be expected for a 20 ft lb springer, but seemed accurate. I was stacking pellets on the 10 yard target and the knockdowns at 20 were way too easy once I got settled in. I would have liked some clean targets to get a better idea of the accuracy potential.
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Respectfully, Joek, HW's have a build quality, performance and reputation to be worth that kind of money. SIG, first time into airgunning, would be hard pressed to, out of the box, bring something to market that would rival either of those guns - I am skeptical, but will wait for the reviews...
SIG has their work cut for them if they think they will sway some customers away HW and the like.
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I spent some time shooting this new Sig at the airgun show today. I like it. The wood stock had a fair bit of heft to it and the whole thing felt solid. The ambidexterous safety placement is different, but works, and it is not automatic. It was a little hold sensitive as should be expected for a 20 ft lb springer, but seemed accurate. I was stacking pellets on the 10 yard target and the knockdowns at 20 were way too easy once I got settled in. I would have liked some clean targets to get a better idea of the accuracy potential.
I would have loved to met you and everyone else at the show, but after 2 hours I over did myself. LOL
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It better be a very good break barrel for that price when many PCP rifles cost less. The markets changing. We shall see.
Fly
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A breakbarrel still has many benefits in comparison to a precharged rifle, and vice versa. Also, typically at a given price point, you get a lot more quality with a breakbarrel. But you are right, we'll see.
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I think the quality, fit and finish are in line with the price. The question is if the market will support another premium break barrel.
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Hard to believe. Most will go European if they're thinking of higher end break barrels, I would think. Someone mentioned that PCP's are coming down ridiculously low and I think that will hurt this gun's chances. The pluses of a break barrel pale in significance (IMHO) to the pluses of some of these new, cost effective PCP's. Sure you need a hand pump and you have to put more energy in them, but the ease of shooting and the consistent accuracy could make believers of break barrel shooters....
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Hard to believe. Most will go European if they're thinking of higher end break barrels, I would think. Someone mentioned that PCP's are coming down ridiculously low and I think that will hurt this gun's chances. The pluses of a break barrel pale in significance (IMHO) to the pluses of some of these new, cost effective PCP's. Sure you need a hand pump and you have to put more energy in them, but the ease of shooting and the consistent accuracy could make believers of break barrel shooters....
I use to have several PCPs but got tired of carrying a scuba tank to the range with me. There was also the problem with the seals leaking after a while.
So, a couple of years ago, I got serious about the springers. I have several Beeman/Weihrauch springers as well as the Diana K98 Mauser.
I have a love-hate relationship with the Beeman/Weihrauch line of air rifles. I don't think they are that good of a shooter right out of the box. The Rekord trigger isn't adjustable out of the box because the tab that the adjustment screw goes through is bent at the factory to prevent it from backing out.
I found that out the hard way with a considerable amount of comments that aren't fit for mixed company.
Don't get me started on the galling issue with the HW30/R7 rifles!
I put spring kits in every one of my springers to get them to shoot good. The Diana K98 didn't need a spring kit but I was on a roll and installed one anyway.
Speaking of the K98, I had problems with the cocking lever dropping out of position prior to firing which caused a big surprise a few times until I figured out the problem. The issue was fixed with putting adhesive backed Velcro strips inside of the faux barrel bands to provide just enough tension to prevent the cocking lever from dropping.
After fixing all the problems with my springers I really like them. However, I could not recommend them to novice airgun shooters unless they are mechanically skilled and willing to spend a few more dollars, time and effort to getting them to operate without any problems.
From the reviews that I've read about the new Sig ASP20 air rifles, they don't seem that bad. The trigger might by twice the pull that I like but you can't have everything you want in life.
I'm in the process of spending my money on upgrades for the PBs. Otherwise, I would probably take a chance on the ASP20. It would be nice to buy an air rifle that I don't have to work on right out of the box.
With all that said, I don't have any regrets with leaving the dark side.
PS: I do have an FWB 300s. I've never had to work on it. It has shot just as well as when I got it almost 20 years ago! Now that's a good springer!
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This gun will attract the attention of PB shooters who really don't know a lot about airguns in general, but who DO recognize Sig as a brand.
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I just read the Pyramyd Air review By Tom Gaylord. He claims this is the next FWB 124. :o :o That, ladies and gentlemen, is a HUUUUGE statement.
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from the looks of their online videos and their presence at the shot show this year, it looks like this gun is made in the USA, from design on up to milling and assembly. Stocks may be foreign made. but the rest is American. If that means anything.
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Any time the US military adopts for general issue, a foreign weapon design; it is mandated that it be produced domestically. That’s why FN Herstal the makers of the Minimi (M249 SAW), recently Beretta (M9), and now Sig Sauer, with the adoption of their pistol; all have production facilities in the US. So... While it is “Made In The USA”; it is still the product of a foreign company.
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Yeah, nice gun. But dark, funky stock color and too over-priced for a .22 rifle with about the same power as the Striker 1000x .22. Even the 1000x vortex is no more than 170 bucks.
Leonard.......What kind of FPS are you getting with your Striker?
Just checked mine this evening using CHP 14.3 and it's at 760. Thinking it's a bit slow by maybe 25-40 FPS.
I've owned about four Hatsan break barrel( 95-springer,gas) Striker 1000x and the downside I've had with mine are the piston seals.
This is going to take some serious marketing to convince break barrel enthusiast to pony up that much $ for a new comer even though it's a Sig.
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Gonna throw this out there.....
several have mentioned its gonna be tough for SIG to go head to head with Diana/HW etc........ ANd yes that is a correct perspective. But they are NOT going to do that. the crowd SIG is marketing that to is not the Aigrun Faithful, but SIG pb owners looking for non-powderburing alternatives.... SIG isnt worried what we forum denizens are buying or even what we think of their guns.....
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Gonna throw this out there.....
several have mentioned its gonna be tough for SIG to go head to head with Diana/HW etc........ ANd yes that is a correct perspective. But they are NOT going to do that. the crowd SIG is marketing that to is not the Aigrun Faithful, but SIG pb owners looking for non-powderburing alternatives.... SIG isnt worried what we forum denizens are buying or even what we think of their guns.....
Good point.
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Gonna throw this out there.....
several have mentioned its gonna be tough for SIG to go head to head with Diana/HW etc........ ANd yes that is a correct perspective. But they are NOT going to do that. the crowd SIG is marketing that to is not the Aigrun Faithful, but SIG pb owners looking for non-powderburing alternatives.... SIG isnt worried what we forum denizens are buying or even what we think of their guns.....
I'm just thinking about this case example:Diana AM03 Stealth N-TEC
Very fine air rifle but given it's price(Sale Price: $489.99 Compared at: $579.99) I don't see a lot of folks buying them. Going by AOS website number of reviews.
AOA worked close with Diana to produce this what the website says. So that's why I use AOA info.
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Is it just me, or does it seem strange that there was a video taken at a gun range and they did not show a single group being shot? If they don't have a scope camera setup, they could still show a 25 or 30 yard group after retrieving the target. When a video FROM THE RANGE won't show this, you know it's all hype.
Those of us who own springers over 19 ft/lbs know it's not easy to be accurate without some sort of floating recoil voodoo.
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Still waiting on the first review. Seems Sig is as bad as Crosman.
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I shot one at the texas air gun show.
First off, I am NOT a springer guy.
Yes i know how to shoot them, but i haven't owned one in over 15 years.
(Until about 2 weeks when ago a early vintage webley tempest found its way here.)
I was very impressed,
This one is well made, and accurate, if they can keep the penny pinchers out of the project, and the lawyers, it's going to be a great gun.
Now wether the american market will buy it at the price point?
That's something yet to be seen.
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I don't think $375~400 price point is impossible, if the accuracy is is the size of a dime @20 yds. I'm basing that on how many $400 HW97's from Europe seem to pop up in US threads. They will only be a slow trickle at $400 and only until $250 compressors become mainstream. At $275 it would be the hottest thing since the Disco.
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This one is well made, and accurate, if they can keep the penny pinchers out of the project, and the lawyers, it's going to be a great gun.
No doubt the demise of a fair share of air rifles making it to market both springers and PCPs.
But when you have a GP mindset that it's ok to sue for dropping hot coffee on your lap we get what we deserve.
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I’m totally vintage buyer now but this is the one modern airgun I might buy.
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I think Pyramyd first had delivery date 10-5, now been moved back about 6 weeks.
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There was a review of the rifle in Airgun World pretty impressive. Low cocking effort 20 FPE. I guess in thinking about it it’s really too powerful for my backyard shooting? Once nice thing about pumpers you can adjust the power for the situation.
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20 fpe is fine in the backyard with a good backstop. A couple sheets of 5/8 or 3/4 inch ply will easily catch the strays if you shoot spinners and targets on the ground. If you post up paper and you can shoot you may eventually shoot through in one spot, so post the paper targets in front of some sort of trap.
I used to shoot a 30+ fpe springer (walther tslon mag) in my back yard with this set up in .25 cal., and a couple 25 fpe springers (ruger air magnum and benjamin xl 1500) in .177. Plus probably a dozen other guns from 5-15 fpe. I never had a pellet shoot through the second board.
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20 fpe is fine in the backyard with a good backstop. A couple sheets of 5/8 or 3/4 inch ply will easily catch the strays if you shoot spinners and targets on the ground. If you post up paper and you can shoot you may eventually shoot through in one spot, so post the paper targets in front of some sort of trap.
I used to shoot a 30+ fpe springer (walther tslon mag) in my back yard with this set up in .25 cal., and a couple 25 fpe springers (ruger air magnum and benjamin xl 1500) in .177. Plus probably a dozen other guns from 5-15 fpe. I never had a pellet shoot through the second board.
Yes it can be done but with more effort and a much louder smack of the target. Even that smack can be absorbed I’m sure. It just maintaining low power in the backyard simplifies things. Wait for some real life reviews of the rifle.
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20 fpe is fine in the backyard with a good backstop. A couple sheets of 5/8 or 3/4 inch ply will easily catch the strays if you shoot spinners and targets on the ground. If you post up paper and you can shoot you may eventually shoot through in one spot, so post the paper targets in front of some sort of trap.
I used to shoot a 30+ fpe springer (walther tslon mag) in my back yard with this set up in .25 cal., and a couple 25 fpe springers (ruger air magnum and benjamin xl 1500) in .177. Plus probably a dozen other guns from 5-15 fpe. I never had a pellet shoot through the second board.
Yes it can be done but with more effort and a much louder smack of the target. Even that smack can be absorbed I’m sure. It just maintaining low power in the backyard simplifies things. Wait for some real life reviews of the rifle.
I am glad you brought up the "smack factor". I forgot about my trap. I used to have a piece of thick plywood with a small frame of 2x4's nailed to it, stuffed with duct seal. Now THAT can stop a projectile. Best of all, no sound of the impact. Vs whacking the plywood, those 25's are much louder than the report of a springer. Build a duct seal trap in the front of your backstop to hang paper targets, and multiple hits in the same spot will just reinforce it even better against penetration.
I, too, would hold off in some good reviews of the rifle. And I agree it is best to keep the power down in the yard. Even if you don't live in town, smart to keep the power minimal around the house. Would love a Gamo shotgun just for that reason. Don't care if it's only good for 5 yards to be lethal. Might have to pass on a lot more shots in the woods, but it would be the perfect bunny basher around the house.
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20 fpe is fine in the backyard with a good backstop. A couple sheets of 5/8 or 3/4 inch ply will easily catch the strays if you shoot spinners and targets on the ground. If you post up paper and you can shoot you may eventually shoot through in one spot, so post the paper targets in front of some sort of trap.
I used to shoot a 30+ fpe springer (walther tslon mag) in my back yard with this set up in .25 cal., and a couple 25 fpe springers (ruger air magnum and benjamin xl 1500) in .177. Plus probably a dozen other guns from 5-15 fpe. I never had a pellet shoot through the second board.
Yes it can be done but with more effort and a much louder smack of the target. Even that smack can be absorbed I’m sure. It just maintaining low power in the backyard simplifies things. Wait for some real life reviews of the rifle.
I am glad you brought up the "smack factor". I forgot about my trap. I used to have a piece of thick plywood with a small frame of 2x4's nailed to it, stuffed with duct seal. Now THAT can stop a projectile. Best of all, no sound of the impact. Vs whacking the plywood, those 25's are much louder than the report of a springer. Build a duct seal trap in the front of your backstop to hang paper targets, and multiple hits in the same spot will just reinforce it even better against penetration.
I, too, would hold off in some good reviews of the rifle. And I agree it is best to keep the power down in the yard. Even if you don't live in town, smart to keep the power minimal around the house. Would love a Gamo shotgun just for that reason. Don't care if it's only good for 5 yards to be lethal. Might have to pass on a lot more shots in the woods, but it would be the perfect bunny basher around the house.
I actually made a duct seal backstop which you are right limits sound but you have to hit it! The metal targets are a bit more fun.
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I have watched the Airgun Depot review now several times. The grouping seems pretty tight. I have the Steel Eagle and I still cant get it to shoot decent enough. Im still new at this, but do not like this SE. I would like to take a shot at one of these Sigs. But the price is too much for me and others.
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I have watched the Airgun Depot review now several times. The grouping seems pretty tight. I have the Steel Eagle and I still cant get it to shoot decent enough. Im still new at this, but do not like this SE. I would like to take a shot at one of these Sigs. But the price is too much for me and others.
I know the price is high but to me it probably indicates a quality rifle. I’m waiting for some independent owners to make a UTube.
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Looks good to me! But, still a pre production model. Wish it had open sights.
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I've got some bullseye bucks, some gift cards, and a few dollars, I am planning on getting one of the synthetic models when they become available.
I won't be making any youtube videos or anything, but I will offer a post of my initial thoughts, and a couple month followup.
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I hope this rifle does very well, I would love to see more made in USA Airguns. Good luck and good job SIG Sauer.
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Yes agree on that, so far what I heard, mostly from BB-Pelletier and an video review from Airgun Depot, it looks like it will be a really accurate and good gun. But I prefer to have seen some private reviews with real world background on it.
But still a good job from SIG Sauer to make it entirely in the USA.
We will see how it holds up, and than we can get deeper into it.
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IMHO, after seeing the home depot video, I am not impressed. As nice as it may look, it really wasn't that accurate compared to the other springers that are out there. Again, it's my opinion, but if you make it here to compete, then it's GOT to complete. At least be as good as and I'm not sure that's what I see. After seeing that rifle, would you really want one over an HW? Or an Air Arms? Heck, I think my Gamo Bone Collector Maxim shoots better and is 10x quieter...
I would be happy to challenge anybody with this SIG gun with my RWS 350. I'll just bet it'll out shoot it.
This has been my 1 cent. I'm afraid my 2 cents are only worth half that now.... ;)
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They claim it is not very hold sensitive. :-\
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I'm interested...but I've said that about other Springers before and still can't keep them very long
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If it wasn’t priced at that level, maybe their target market wouldn’t take it seriously, dismiss it as just another chimerican pellet gun?
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Be interested to see how many wind up being resold and end up on classified adds. If any.
Who knows I many kick the PCP habit and return to simplicity of the break-barrel.
I'd welcome that fork in the road/choice for a challenge.
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It's Here!
https://www.pyramydair.com/air-guns/rifles/gas-piston-rifles (https://www.pyramydair.com/air-guns/rifles/gas-piston-rifles)
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I wanted synthetic, but didn't want to wait. Beech stock ordered this morning. Combination of some paypal play money, a pyramyd gift certificate and some bullseye bucks, I only used $204 out of my real money.
Aaand just got a sold out message. Had to use the Bullseye bucks or they expired or I would cancel and wait...Why do I bother with the pre-order game. An exercise in frustration every single time.
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I'm holding out I think for the scope combo. From the looks of it it will be a decent deal.
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Am I the only one thinking a US-made break-barrel shouldn't cost more than an imported German-made break-barrel from any of three different companies? My understanding is the trigger is on par with a Walther Terrus/Parrus vs T06/Record. What am I getting with the Sig ASP20 I can't get anywhere else, and why should I pay such a premium for a wood stock gas ram?
I'm not saying it's bad, I'm asking why would I buy one given numerous superior alternatives?
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Am I the only one thinking a US-made break-barrel shouldn't cost more than an imported German-made break-barrel from any of three different companies? My understanding is the trigger is on par with a Walther Terrus/Parrus vs T06/Record. What am I getting with the Sig ASP20 I can't get anywhere else, and why should I pay such a premium for a wood stock gas ram?
I'm not saying it's bad, I'm asking why would I buy one given numerous superior alternatives?
The idea is that the Sig rifle should not be inferior to any breakbarrel. Should be as good as or better than any other piston gun in this power class.
I think the biggest mistake is the trigger. They should have known that we are snobs about triggers.
I would bet that it is still a successful venture because most of the shooting world does not take airguns as seriously as they should. The gun will be an eye opener for these types.
I just hope that they will keep this model afloat long enough for Sig to make adjustments. Aside from the customer service, which they seem to be working on, it looks like the only thing keeping it from living up to our expectations is the trigger. People want to compare it to the Terrus, based on only the trigger, and completely forget about the rest of the engineering that has went into this rifle. They have done a lot of great things with this platform and it has a ton of potential.
With a few tweaks to the trigger, it may actually live up to the hype. Imagine that??? A break barrel air rifle that fully lives up to the marketing hype... it is aaaaaaalmost there, yes?
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If there's one thing I've learned in the short time that I've been in this hobby, it's to not take every complaint I hear about triggers too seriously! No offense, gents, but if I was one that did so, I wouldn't have bought my Benjamin 392 or Gamo Swarm Maxxims! All three of those have smooth triggers that I have no problem dealing with! Are they the equal of a Rekord or AA trigger? Not by far! But they ain't bad, either! And once I've shot a few rounds to again get the feel of the trigger, they're just as accurate as the better, more expensive guns...
As far as the comparing the Sig against what you could buy from Germany...another thing I've learned is that this hobby is about what you do with your disposable income...and my least expensive rifles speak to me in a different way than my most expensive rifles! I'll eventually consider the ASP20 up the road, most likely when they bundle the scope with it...regardless of the price point, and regardless of those who dis it...because there are some folks out there whose opinions that I respect that are high on the rifle! And if I have a different experience once I've 'pulled the trigger' on the purchase? Well, life is fulla risks!!!
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It is now showing up on the new products page on Pyramyd Air since 2 days.
In 177 and 22 Cal's and in synthetic and beech stocks.
Here is the link:
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/sig-sauer-asp20-gas-piston-breakbarrel-air-rifle-synthetic?m=4598 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/sig-sauer-asp20-gas-piston-breakbarrel-air-rifle-synthetic?m=4598)
LOL....that's one UGLY gun!
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I've really gotten used to the trigger. 2.5lb pull (minimum) is still pretty nice - especially when its cold and gloves on - although that is rare for me.
It really breaks very clean and consistent, and the stage 1->2 adjustment has lots of options for where you want it to break. The stage 2 break is still pretty crisp in my opinion. I think they really designed this gun with usability in mind, and not catering to any far end of the spectrum.
The more I shoot my ASP20, the more I like it. I do need to get the HW95 out and do side by side shooting, with an observer to compare the sound levels at 10 feet away.