22 is going to give you nearly double the energy and I don't think a Stock 1322 at what 440 FPS is going to humanely dispatch a Raccon. Some say you need 10 FPE. You would need to make a 1322 shoot 570 FPS with a standard 143. grn pellet. https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=27855.0
Would 10yrds be a good generic distance to assume the winner would be the same at 0-20yrd
I’m really surprised at this point that no one thought to direct you to the pellet testing conducted by Hard Air magazine. The gun used in the majority of the testing is a Beeman switch barrel break barrel rifle, so same power plant is the same save for the caliber of the barrel. This dovetails into what your asking sort of. Read through the articles to the end as they show penetration in soap this will allow you to make a better informed decision. There is no testing of the 14.3gr Crosman so I used the closest one which is the H&N.22 FTT pellet.https://hardairmagazine.com/reviews/crosman-premier-ultra-magnum-pellets-10-5-grain-177-caliber-test-review/https://hardairmagazine.com/reviews/hn-field-target-trophy-22-caliber-14-66-grain-pellet-test-review/
Quote from: Bent Skirt on September 21, 2021, 05:37:25 PMI’m really surprised at this point that no one thought to direct you to the pellet testing conducted by Hard Air magazine. The gun used in the majority of the testing is a Beeman switch barrel break barrel rifle, so same power plant is the same save for the caliber of the barrel. This dovetails into what your asking sort of. Read through the articles to the end as they show penetration in soap this will allow you to make a better informed decision. There is no testing of the 14.3gr Crosman so I used the closest one which is the H&N.22 FTT pellet.https://hardairmagazine.com/reviews/crosman-premier-ultra-magnum-pellets-10-5-grain-177-caliber-test-review/https://hardairmagazine.com/reviews/hn-field-target-trophy-22-caliber-14-66-grain-pellet-test-review/I have seen this before and forgot about it so thanks. However, I am feeling the need to use metal as part of the test because if I get good penetration through metal, I am thinking that could somehow represent penetration potential overall and especially for a critter skull (or body shot). If a pellet will penetrate both sides of a dog food can, you would think that would be good for an animal?
Quote from: RobertMcC on September 21, 2021, 02:10:39 PM22 is going to give you nearly double the energy and I don't think a Stock 1322 at what 440 FPS is going to humanely dispatch a Raccon. Some say you need 10 FPE. You would need to make a 1322 shoot 570 FPS with a standard 143. grn pellet. https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=27855.0My 2289 shoots ~11.5FPE with 18-20 pumps bone stock. I am not looking to necessarily use for hunting raccoons, more along the lines of having an airgun that could be used to dispatch anything from a mouse, snake, snapping turtle, up to a raccoon only in a rare emergency. I want the best tool for the job out of these two platforms. I know 22 has more energy, but a 177 heavy "might" have more penetration (that's what I intend to determine).I think I can get 8FPE from the stock 1377 with 10.5gr pellet & over pumping already. One either gun, I am willing to add a 12" barrel and a folding stock. Eventually, the chosen gun will also get a FT piston setup. BUT I need to do the initial stock testing to determine which platform to invest in. If the 177 with less energy but heavy pellet can penetrate as well or better than the 22, then I would have the added benefit of better trajectory/accuracy if I had to hit a muskrat from the boat. The 2289 w/ 15 pumps and 14.3gr Crosman pellet (can't recall if HP or round nose) penetrated a snapping turtle shell at ~20yrds. The turtle was eating baby ducks in my pond. I was aiming for the head but it was a tough shot. I very impressed when I found him later and he had a hole in his shell. I expected it to deflect. Perhaps a lighter pellet would have deflected?Anyway, If I add a 12" barrel and folding stock to a 1322 or 1377, I can grab some more FPE without being too big to carry. The 2289 is probably the best choice, but it is too long to fit in the case and I do not want to wear it out or rust it since it is the ONE airgun I'd take if I could only have one in a survival situation. As a side note, I am already building up a 2240 pistol to take on the boat as a snake gun. But not as convenient as a pumper so I will have to maybe do some CO2 penetration tests too and see what gun goes on the boat and which is better for the truck. I'm probably more likely to need to dispatch and injured animal from the truck rather than the boat.
Quote from: Sh00ter on September 21, 2021, 03:48:35 PMQuote from: RobertMcC on September 21, 2021, 02:10:39 PM22 is going to give you nearly double the energy and I don't think a Stock 1322 at what 440 FPS is going to humanely dispatch a Raccon. Some say you need 10 FPE. You would need to make a 1322 shoot 570 FPS with a standard 143. grn pellet. https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=27855.0My 2289 shoots ~11.5FPE with 18-20 pumps bone stock. I am not looking to necessarily use for hunting raccoons, more along the lines of having an airgun that could be used to dispatch anything from a mouse, snake, snapping turtle, up to a raccoon only in a rare emergency. I want the best tool for the job out of these two platforms. I know 22 has more energy, but a 177 heavy "might" have more penetration (that's what I intend to determine).I think I can get 8FPE from the stock 1377 with 10.5gr pellet & over pumping already. One either gun, I am willing to add a 12" barrel and a folding stock. Eventually, the chosen gun will also get a FT piston setup. BUT I need to do the initial stock testing to determine which platform to invest in. If the 177 with less energy but heavy pellet can penetrate as well or better than the 22, then I would have the added benefit of better trajectory/accuracy if I had to hit a muskrat from the boat. The 2289 w/ 15 pumps and 14.3gr Crosman pellet (can't recall if HP or round nose) penetrated a snapping turtle shell at ~20yrds. The turtle was eating baby ducks in my pond. I was aiming for the head but it was a tough shot. I very impressed when I found him later and he had a hole in his shell. I expected it to deflect. Perhaps a lighter pellet would have deflected?Anyway, If I add a 12" barrel and folding stock to a 1322 or 1377, I can grab some more FPE without being too big to carry. The 2289 is probably the best choice, but it is too long to fit in the case and I do not want to wear it out or rust it since it is the ONE airgun I'd take if I could only have one in a survival situation. As a side note, I am already building up a 2240 pistol to take on the boat as a snake gun. But not as convenient as a pumper so I will have to maybe do some CO2 penetration tests too and see what gun goes on the boat and which is better for the truck. I'm probably more likely to need to dispatch and injured animal from the truck rather than the boat.I base it on 10 pumps like Crosman says is max. I'm not going to sit there pumping something for 20 pumps, when I can buy/build something that is more powerful for less effort. Why I'm throwing a 66/M4-177 pump tube and linkage on my 2289. For a longer stroke.Weak link is the plastic piston. Sooner or later the plastic piston is going to bend, under that extra stress. Not saying you cannot make a 15FPE 1322, but your pushing it more then it was design for.. I rather over kill when hunting with airguns, then pushing bare min. I would buy/build something else for raccons.
Quote from: RobertMcC on September 22, 2021, 10:14:27 AMQuote from: Sh00ter on September 21, 2021, 03:48:35 PMQuote from: RobertMcC on September 21, 2021, 02:10:39 PM22 is going to give you nearly double the energy and I don't think a Stock 1322 at what 440 FPS is going to humanely dispatch a Raccon. Some say you need 10 FPE. You would need to make a 1322 shoot 570 FPS with a standard 143. grn pellet. https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=27855.0My 2289 shoots ~11.5FPE with 18-20 pumps bone stock. I am not looking to necessarily use for hunting raccoons, more along the lines of having an airgun that could be used to dispatch anything from a mouse, snake, snapping turtle, up to a raccoon only in a rare emergency. I want the best tool for the job out of these two platforms. I know 22 has more energy, but a 177 heavy "might" have more penetration (that's what I intend to determine).I think I can get 8FPE from the stock 1377 with 10.5gr pellet & over pumping already. One either gun, I am willing to add a 12" barrel and a folding stock. Eventually, the chosen gun will also get a FT piston setup. BUT I need to do the initial stock testing to determine which platform to invest in. If the 177 with less energy but heavy pellet can penetrate as well or better than the 22, then I would have the added benefit of better trajectory/accuracy if I had to hit a muskrat from the boat. The 2289 w/ 15 pumps and 14.3gr Crosman pellet (can't recall if HP or round nose) penetrated a snapping turtle shell at ~20yrds. The turtle was eating baby ducks in my pond. I was aiming for the head but it was a tough shot. I very impressed when I found him later and he had a hole in his shell. I expected it to deflect. Perhaps a lighter pellet would have deflected?Anyway, If I add a 12" barrel and folding stock to a 1322 or 1377, I can grab some more FPE without being too big to carry. The 2289 is probably the best choice, but it is too long to fit in the case and I do not want to wear it out or rust it since it is the ONE airgun I'd take if I could only have one in a survival situation. As a side note, I am already building up a 2240 pistol to take on the boat as a snake gun. But not as convenient as a pumper so I will have to maybe do some CO2 penetration tests too and see what gun goes on the boat and which is better for the truck. I'm probably more likely to need to dispatch and injured animal from the truck rather than the boat.I base it on 10 pumps like Crosman says is max. I'm not going to sit there pumping something for 20 pumps, when I can buy/build something that is more powerful for less effort. Why I'm throwing a 66/M4-177 pump tube and linkage on my 2289. For a longer stroke.Weak link is the plastic piston. Sooner or later the plastic piston is going to bend, under that extra stress. Not saying you cannot make a 15FPE 1322, but your pushing it more then it was design for.. I rather over kill when hunting with airguns, then pushing bare min. I would buy/build something else for raccons.I typically only pump 10. However, I am trying to have a compact gun that can be with me most of the time that could (in an emergency) be used to dispatch an animal as large as a raccoon, maybe even larger (point blank headshot). I have no intention of hunting anything that large with a 13xx gun as I have plenty of other rifles up to 20FPE. But I want compact and "powerful enough if needed". I can't afford to leave a PROD riding around in a truck or left in a boat for years. In most cases, I would have a powder burner with me anyway. Having said all that, does it make more sense? Now tell me more about the 66 pump tube mod...does that give more air per pump and translate to 10 pumps being more powerful with even a stock piston??? The most powerful gun I had as a kid was a 66 and I wish I had kept it.Thanks!
I think the flaw on the test is the fact that you are shooting both the 1322 and 1377 at different power levels. the test should be the same power with different ammo, regardless of the caliber. That is why the brits say that .177 penetrates better. it will have a higher velocity at the distance of impact (to a certain point). so since we do not have a power limitation, i think you should use the hardest lead in the fastest gun, which should be generally on stock guns a 10.5 or 10.6 gr pellet in a 1377 at 10 pumps (overpumping is not recommended as the gains are not that noticeable on stock guns, nor create a consistent velocity). I would try to get a 1377 shooting the heaviest possible pellet as accurate as possible and try to guarantee a ear shot on an animals as a raccoon. I have seen those critters literally take a .22 lr on the forehead and have the bullet skim between the bone and skin and exit through the back...As experience i can only attest to using a crosman 2100 with heavy pellets within 10 yards to the ear canal. ( that gun shot them at 569 fps). 20 yards is a tough sell with that kind of power (on raccoons). As far as a truck gun, may using a benji 392 (brass and synthetic is more durable) be better. it is still compact, easier to be accurate with (longer sight radius) and made of pretty durable materials, as well as capable of driving 14.3 gr pellets at speeds of 650 fps or more on 10 pumps. You can always pump less if that is all that is needed.
Quote from: lillysdad621 on September 25, 2021, 01:32:25 PMI think the flaw on the test is the fact that you are shooting both the 1322 and 1377 at different power levels. the test should be the same power with different ammo, regardless of the caliber. That is why the brits say that .177 penetrates better. it will have a higher velocity at the distance of impact (to a certain point). so since we do not have a power limitation, i think you should use the hardest lead in the fastest gun, which should be generally on stock guns a 10.5 or 10.6 gr pellet in a 1377 at 10 pumps (overpumping is not recommended as the gains are not that noticeable on stock guns, nor create a consistent velocity). I would try to get a 1377 shooting the heaviest possible pellet as accurate as possible and try to guarantee a ear shot on an animals as a raccoon. I have seen those critters literally take a .22 lr on the forehead and have the bullet skim between the bone and skin and exit through the back...As experience i can only attest to using a crosman 2100 with heavy pellets within 10 yards to the ear canal. ( that gun shot them at 569 fps). 20 yards is a tough sell with that kind of power (on raccoons). As far as a truck gun, may using a benji 392 (brass and synthetic is more durable) be better. it is still compact, easier to be accurate with (longer sight radius) and made of pretty durable materials, as well as capable of driving 14.3 gr pellets at speeds of 650 fps or more on 10 pumps. You can always pump less if that is all that is needed.Thanks for the reply, I'll address several points below:- Was testing 2289 vs 1377 because 1322 is still new in the box- I would never try anything larger than a bird or a rat at 20yrds with a 1377; in an emergency dispatch, I was planning 0-10yrds.- Tested at both the same and different power levels; the reason for different power levels is because the 2289 has a longer barrel advantage over the 1377- I did test 10.5 in 1377 at 10 pumps and also more than 10. My stock 1377 can gain almost 100fps from 10 pumps to 18 pumps- At 10 pumps, even at 5yrds, the 10.5gr 177 would not penetrate the bottom of the can of beans- I don't typically over-pump, but in an emergency where I need max power, that is the reason for testing with more than 10 pumps- Just like your 2100, I have a Winchester 1977xs that can do 16FPE with heavy pellet so I know 177 can kill a coon, but I was specifically wanting to know about 1377- The 392 is an excellent recommendation and I've had to resist buying one as I've watched the prices continue to rise. But I want a more compact gun so that is why I was leaning towards the 1322Thanks again for all your feedback
Quote from: Sh00ter on September 25, 2021, 06:41:44 PMQuote from: lillysdad621 on September 25, 2021, 01:32:25 PMI think the flaw on the test is the fact that you are shooting both the 1322 and 1377 at different power levels. the test should be the same power with different ammo, regardless of the caliber. That is why the brits say that .177 penetrates better. it will have a higher velocity at the distance of impact (to a certain point). so since we do not have a power limitation, i think you should use the hardest lead in the fastest gun, which should be generally on stock guns a 10.5 or 10.6 gr pellet in a 1377 at 10 pumps (overpumping is not recommended as the gains are not that noticeable on stock guns, nor create a consistent velocity). I would try to get a 1377 shooting the heaviest possible pellet as accurate as possible and try to guarantee a ear shot on an animals as a raccoon. I have seen those critters literally take a .22 lr on the forehead and have the bullet skim between the bone and skin and exit through the back...As experience i can only attest to using a crosman 2100 with heavy pellets within 10 yards to the ear canal. ( that gun shot them at 569 fps). 20 yards is a tough sell with that kind of power (on raccoons). As far as a truck gun, may using a benji 392 (brass and synthetic is more durable) be better. it is still compact, easier to be accurate with (longer sight radius) and made of pretty durable materials, as well as capable of driving 14.3 gr pellets at speeds of 650 fps or more on 10 pumps. You can always pump less if that is all that is needed.Thanks for the reply, I'll address several points below:- Was testing 2289 vs 1377 because 1322 is still new in the box- I would never try anything larger than a bird or a rat at 20yrds with a 1377; in an emergency dispatch, I was planning 0-10yrds.- Tested at both the same and different power levels; the reason for different power levels is because the 2289 has a longer barrel advantage over the 1377- I did test 10.5 in 1377 at 10 pumps and also more than 10. My stock 1377 can gain almost 100fps from 10 pumps to 18 pumps- At 10 pumps, even at 5yrds, the 10.5gr 177 would not penetrate the bottom of the can of beans- I don't typically over-pump, but in an emergency where I need max power, that is the reason for testing with more than 10 pumps- Just like your 2100, I have a Winchester 1977xs that can do 16FPE with heavy pellet so I know 177 can kill a coon, but I was specifically wanting to know about 1377- The 392 is an excellent recommendation and I've had to resist buying one as I've watched the prices continue to rise. But I want a more compact gun so that is why I was leaning towards the 1322Thanks again for all your feedbackHere is something to consider, with over pumping. You sight the gun with 10 pumps, then in a emergency or whatever you call it, you pump it to 20. On top that it takes forever and is tiring. Faster speed will change the POI and a kill shot might not be a kill shot. I know when I had my Kral, it had 4 different power settings and it was about 100 FPS per setting. I had 4 different POI based on 700, 800, 900, 1000 FPS. I'm not saying you cannot dispatch with a 13XX, just not a stock one. Just build it up. There are sooo many mods and accessories for these guns. To get 600-700 FPS without needing to over pump it. Flat top piston is 1 way to achieve efficacy.. 7 Pumps might do what 10 pumps before did. Way before I knew the laws here. I made a 1377 shoot 693 FPS with 7.4grn with 10 pumps and stock 10" barrel. Personally I would use a 1322, I just like having that extra energy. I'm waiting on the 66 tube to make my Hybrid 2289, so I can have it classified as a rifle, and increase the velocity ( Dang Canada Laws )