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Author Topic: Reseal or "if it ain't broke don't fix it"?  (Read 349 times))

Offline lotomid

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Reseal or "if it ain't broke don't fix it"?
« on: September 22, 2022, 06:35:59 PM »
I've got my Grand Uncle's Crosman 101 which must be at least 81 years old, as my Dad shot it when he was a kid and he's 91 now. I pump it 7 times and can hit a 5" pulley wheel off the riding mower from 30 yards with the peephole (off-hand and I guess I'm happy abou that, considering my old nervous system). I have no idea of velocity as I don't have a way to measure it, but I can't see the pellet flying through the air. It doesn't hold a charge over night and I've ordered a reseal kit from Baker's which is on the way.

So do I replace the seals, replace a specific seal or leave well enough alone?  What say ye wise ones?
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Offline Flint

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Re: Reseal or "if it ain't broke don't fix it"?
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2022, 07:24:22 PM »
you can start by making sure it's oiled well (I'm a big fan of Mac1's secret sauce) pump and shoot it several times and then put 3 pumps in it and see how long it holds.  keep doing that and see if it starts holding longer, making sure that everything stays moist with oil.  I've revived a few old pump guns with nothing but oil. 

if it doesn't eventually hold air over night and then indefinitely, then probably worth replacing the seals.

Offline lotomid

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Re: Reseal or "if it ain't broke don't fix it"?
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2022, 08:04:53 PM »
So I oiled it up-I used Tri Flo- through the hole and on the exposed pump rod (I'm sure I'm using the wrong words) and it freed up a lot of gunk and crud. I'm dry firing into a paper towel which leaves a black mist and wiping off the excess oil and crud as I go. I guess I should really tear it apart when I get the springs and give it a proper cleaning, but for being so dirty it sure was shooting accurately!

I'm doing a "three pump and checking it in one hour" to see how it does

Let me know any other thoughts you have...thanks...
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Offline bantam5s

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Re: Reseal or "if it ain't broke don't fix it"?
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2022, 08:09:39 PM »
Give it a good flush with some isopropyl alcohol to really help get it cleaned out, then oil it when it seems clean enough and go from there.

You just may get it holding air properly,  but if not definitely reseal it with the kit you've got coming.
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Offline DanD

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Re: Reseal or "if it ain't broke don't fix it"?
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2022, 08:15:52 PM »
Hopefully, oil will fix it, but often on a gun that old, it does not. Does the kit include the special tool for removing the valve nut and valve stem?
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Offline lotomid

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Re: Reseal or "if it ain't broke don't fix it"?
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2022, 08:41:35 PM »
Thanks Gentlemen...It actually holds well in the short term and was working well enough and predictably enough, but I like restoring things and particularly having shooting things clean. And I know it hasn't been cleaned in at least 50 years, if ever.

I did get the kit with the tool for removing the valve from the video I say...Not sure if I have something to remove the valve stem, but I've got a tire stem removal tool...would that work or will i need it?

I'm going to use some pipe cleaners to clean up more of the black stuff out and see if I can get it to pump cleaner. It does put a hole in  paper towel with just air so it must be compressing pretty well. I'm amazed that something so old and neglected can work so well.
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Offline Back_Roads

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Re: Reseal or "if it ain't broke don't fix it"?
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2022, 08:55:29 PM »
 I have a 101 that was warehoused at Crosman then in shipping containers for decades, I ordered a kit to rebuild, but the darn thing works as advertised, and holds air for months. Keep shooting it till it don't then rebuild LOL
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Offline RBQChicken

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Re: Reseal or "if it ain't broke don't fix it"?
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2022, 11:20:29 PM »
I don't think you should use Tri-flow on it.  That stuff has solvents in it which might harm the seals.  Not sure about that, but you should research it a little before continuing use.  If it is bad stuff, just start oiling with a non-detergent oil, pump, shoot, repeat,  and flush the bad stuff out.
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Offline DanD

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Re: Reseal or "if it ain't broke don't fix it"?
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2022, 12:09:48 PM »
....
I did get the kit with the tool for removing the valve from the video I say...Not sure if I have something to remove the valve stem...

One end of the tool has the tangs to grab the slotted nut, the other end has threads to screw into and pull out the exhaust valve body and valve. 
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Offline lotomid

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Re: Reseal or "if it ain't broke don't fix it"?
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2022, 01:06:06 PM »
Yeah, that was probably a stupid choice and I know better. Good thing I've got the seals coming!  I didn't think that flushing with alcohol would be good for the seals either.  Seems like even with the oil I just liquified the crud and made a mess, so I'll likely have to really break it down and give it a proper cleaning, dry everything and then use as little oil as I can. Thanks...

I don't think you should use Tri-flow on it.  That stuff has solvents in it which might harm the seals.  Not sure about that, but you should research it a little before continuing use.  If it is bad stuff, just start oiling with a non-detergent oil, pump, shoot, repeat,  and flush the bad stuff out.
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Offline lotomid

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Re: Reseal or "if it ain't broke don't fix it"?
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2022, 01:06:45 PM »
Gotcha...thanks...


....
I did get the kit with the tool for removing the valve from the video I say...Not sure if I have something to remove the valve stem...

One end of the tool has the tangs to grab the slotted nut, the other end has threads to screw into and pull out the exhaust valve body and valve.
  • USA, HI, Honolulu

Offline lotomid

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Re: Reseal or "if it ain't broke don't fix it"?
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2022, 01:09:10 PM »
Does anyone know how many pumps that vintage of 101 should use?  I have reading the number varies and have been doing 7. thx
BTW, I'm an expert on golf equipment if anyone has questions about that!  ;D
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Offline Back_Roads

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Re: Reseal or "if it ain't broke don't fix it"?
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2022, 09:20:29 AM »
Does anyone know how many pumps that vintage of 101 should use?  I have reading the number varies and have been doing 7. thx
BTW, I'm an expert on golf equipment if anyone has questions about that!  ;D

IIR it was sold as an 8 pump gun, I have gone to 10 a few times with mine, no retained air.
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Offline longhunter

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Re: Reseal or "if it ain't broke don't fix it"?
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2022, 10:06:44 AM »
If it shoots, holds air, leave it alone. Those 101's are a bugger to reseal.
They have an asbestos seal, on the front of the valve. If you don't get both surfaces absolutely clean, you'll play merry h-e-l-l getting a seal. Same thing with the seal between the valve and pump tube.
If it were me, I'd just keep shooting it, let the gunk blow out.
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Re: Reseal or "if it ain't broke don't fix it"?
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2022, 01:25:22 PM »
Those seals seam to last forever on many 101's. I wouldn't scratch if it doesn't itch. You have parts when and if it fails.
For some reason this is one of the few pumpers I enjoy (I sorta like a 1400 but never pursued one). I'm a springer guy. Something endears me to the 1920's design. I have 2 of them. And a Rochester. That thing's funky, man! I chronically had "the disease" when I bought it. More like in remission now, I don't think I would buy a Rochester today.
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Offline lotomid

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Re: Reseal or "if it ain't broke don't fix it"?
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2022, 01:57:09 PM »
I just checked it this morning and it held air from yesterday. so maybe some of the gunk worked in and made the seal even better! The slide area is a little stickier, but I can't really tell where that is changing up. Is there a way to disassemble, clean it all out and NOT reseal it or would that potentially mess things up more?

I guess just keep shooting it and deal with the gunk that finds its way into the compression chamber?  Wipe of the excess and keep re-oiling? I am hitting the target still so maybe the best thing is to just clean the barrel out regularly.

I certainly have had my fair share of messing with things to make them better, only to make them worse.  ;D


If it shoots, holds air, leave it alone. Those 101's are a bugger to reseal.
They have an asbestos seal, on the front of the valve. If you don't get both surfaces absolutely clean, you'll play merry h-e-l-l getting a seal. Same thing with the seal between the valve and pump tube.
If it were me, I'd just keep shooting it, let the gunk blow out.
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Offline Mzq284

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Re: Reseal or "if it ain't broke don't fix it"?
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2022, 01:43:23 AM »
Matt, 101s and 102s are great rifles, accurate with good power.  Leave it alone for the time being, run it wet, and reseal when it needs it. In the meantime,  ENJOY!
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Offline 19Sheridan57

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Re: Reseal or "if it ain't broke don't fix it"?
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2022, 06:39:52 AM »
   I would say to keep using it. Yes there is some black gunk in there, but there is in all old pumpers. Shooting it will get a lot of it out, & help its performance. ALWAYS store it with 1-2 pumps in it.
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Offline lotomid

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Re: Reseal or "if it ain't broke don't fix it"?
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2022, 02:01:05 PM »
Thanks...one less project and plenty of others to do!

Matt, 101s and 102s are great rifles, accurate with good power.  Leave it alone for the time being, run it wet, and reseal when it needs it. In the meantime,  ENJOY!
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Offline lotomid

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Re: Reseal or "if it ain't broke don't fix it"?
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2022, 02:03:42 PM »
thanks..I wasn't aware that it's OK to run wet. Thought that always just made it collect more crud.



   I would say to keep using it. Yes there is some black gunk in there, but there is in all old pumpers. Shooting it will get a lot of it out, & help its performance. ALWAYS store it with 1-2 pumps in it.
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