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All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Support Equipment For PCP/HPA/CO2 => Topic started by: Ironman482 on January 14, 2019, 10:50:27 AM
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I have a question, maybe someone has done this and can advise me on details. I have a nitrogen tank (not the 6000 psi one ) I got it for my tig welder so will have it refilled with argon, it still has 1500 psi in it so I want to fill my scba tank to 1500 then attach the nitrogen bottle to my alkun compressor with it reg to a low pressure 5 to 10 psi on the flow meter to top off the tank . Has any one done this , and is there any special concerns using nitrogen in a pcp ?
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Nope, Nitrogen works perfectly in PCPs.... Just make sure you don't have a "mixed gas" in your welding tank....
Bob
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Nope, Nitrogen works perfectly in PCPs.... Just make sure you don't have a "mixed gas" in your welding tank....
Bobno worries there ,got it from my brother he works at a welding supply store, I'm just worried about getting the press-flow rate right, proberly just do it till the nitrogen pressure falls below 500 psi . But if it increases efficiency might be tempted to try again
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I do almost the same thing. Fill off 6k nitrogen until it's too low then I use my Yong Heng in "booster mode" and feed it 5 psia nitrogen from the nitrogen tank. Speeds up the fill time by about 50% and also means there is no moisture at all going in. But I wouldn't feed it more than 5-10 psia the YH first stage compression is fixed at 10:1.
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I do almost the same thing. Fill off 6k nitrogen until it's too low then I use my Yong Heng in "booster mode" and feed it 5 psia nitrogen from the nitrogen tank. Speeds up the fill time by about 50% and also means there is no moisture at all going in. But I wouldn't feed it more than 5-10 psia the YH first stage compression is fixed at 10:1.
You mean you feed 5-10 “PSI” to the YH compressor from the nitrogen tank? Does the flow rate “CFM” matter? I was planning on getting the adaptor to go from the Nitrogen 6k to a regular welding gas regulator, then using the welding gas regulator to feed the YH compressor. IIRC the welding regulator are rated for 3k?
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So Lou, that's is possible, and you are correct about CFM being more important than PSI. The intake of the YH acts like a reducer and based on my calculations 8psi through 3/16" intake tube provides about 3 CFM. It turned out in my particular setup the sweet spot was somewhere between 5 and 20 psi. I am using a Palmer Paintball Reg to moderate the N2 down to the <20psi, but I see where you could put a second gas reg behind your N2 reg and be fine. May work better than my set-up?
Make sure your using "Dry N2".
To make this work as intended there are a few other fittings and procedures that have to be followed.
1. Use a fill whip with a air bleed. You don't want to trap 4500psi between two check valves!
2. The male Foster fitting on the whip needs a check valve in it. This prevents a high pressure backflow into the compressor when the unit is turned off.
3. The starting and stopping procedures are very important to prevent damage to the compressor.
Here are my procedures.
1. Start the YH with both bleeds open.
2. Open the target tank's pressure against the check valve in the male foster connected to the YH Filter.
3. Open stabilizer valve to introduce the N2, adjust the initial flow on the stabilizer where the motor starts to drag and back off a bit with air still exiting the LP bleed.
4. Close the low pressure side bleed valve. (If the motor starts to drag adjust the stabilizer pressure downward until the drag on the motor ends. )
5. Close the high pressure side. (If the motor starts to drag adjust the stabilizer pressure downward until the drag on the motor ends.)
6. Pressure will build until the check valve in the foster connection to the target tank opens.
***Important***
7. When max pressure is reached open the HIGH SIDE BLEED 1st, then the machine can be turned off. Open low side bleed. Shut off the N2.
What I learned is the target psi on the stabilizer is about 20 psi. The burst disc are specked to be 1mm and they are more like .27mm. I had to double up the disc to keep it from popping the disc.
Final notes on fittings. Make sure all your fittings are NPT not BSPT. They look similar but are incompatible at these working pressures. Do not buy the fittings off amazon, buy them from a trusted vendor like the ones that advertise here! I almost had a Amazon purchased 1/8" female Foster fitting fail. Luckily, I inspected it before using and noticed the failure.
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I was just reading over this old thread and had some thoughts about using N2, since I always have it on hand. I've kind of decided not to use it as it's not really needed, but I'm still interested in the concept.
The thing I'm curious about is the need for any changes on the output side. Let's use 4500 psi for a fill pressure, which we all know is usually much lower, but it's a good round number. Let's also use a gun tank pressure of 2500 psi for example. Your output pressure will never change while filling any gun, it will pump up to the guns pressure, (2500), open the guns valve, and start filling the rifle. When your fill pressure is reached, (4500) the pump will be shut down. Why would you need anything new on the output side?
As to the inlet, I would say that N2 fed from a regulator at 5-20 psi would be appropriate and adjusted to suit your pumps needs.
It seems to me you would start the pump with the outlet bleed open, introduce N2 into the inlet, and close the bleed.
I am interested, are there really any credible reports of moisture getting inside airguns from using home compressors?
While I don't claim to be an expert and am not arguing, I'm just trying to understand the proper method and would love to hear any opinions. I have one of my GX CS2 pumps setup and ready to go, but decided that I've not encountered any moisture in any of my guns to facilitate the needd for N2, but the idea is interesting, and maybe I'll give it a try. Being an HVAC guy I already have all the regulators and fitting needed to do it.
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Ok I have been feeding my compressors Nothing but N2 since I got into PCP's I started with a GX CS2 the handle has a 1/2" npt intake cap removed and 1/2 to 1/4 adaptor feed by a 1/4 id hose from a regulator set at about 10psi, next came a Tuxing Twin has what they call a muffler on the intake 1/4npt changed to hose fed from regulated N2 tank at about 10 psi, and finally a GX CS-4 feeding it from a flowgauge set at 25 cfh the in take on the cs4 is inside removed the intake filter again 1/4npt and never have water or any oxidizers in my guns or compressors The best thing is no chance of detonation in compressors or guns
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I have a shoebox compressor and have considered getting a nitrogen tank. My shoebox requires 125psi for input pressure. How low can you get a nitrogen bottle pressure before it will no longer fill a large carbon tank?
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I run my bottles down to about 100 psi then take them in for exchange/refill
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UPDATE:
I opened up a few of my pcp rifles and found no trace of moisture. I then opened up my GX compressor and found quite a bit of rust and moisture in the check valve block. It was easily cleaned up, and if I chose to do something like 6 month maintenance, it'd be fine. As I said, NO moisture made it into any guns, as I keep my filters and lines lower than the guns when filling.
BUT, I didn't want the extra hassle of worrying with this ugly little mess. Sooo, I (being an HVAC guy) have N2 on hand always, and I moded a couple of my GX compressors to feed N2 to the inlet. I only use particle filters on both the inlet and outlet now. I did pipe in a filter housing on the inlet to give the pump a buffer, so gauges wouldn't bounce so much, but it is definitely not needed. I feed 5-10 psi and my guns fill a tad faster, both from the increased inlet pressure and no outlet filter. Moisture problems are a thing of the past and when I open my compressors they are very clean.
I've been doing this, since I wrote the last post and it is the berries. I use 40 cu/ft N2 cylinders and get around a month and a half when testing and tuning guns, because I fill and empty and refill a lot. During normal shooting, I'd estimate two months plus, and that's shooting something almost every day. It costs me $18 for a refill, so cost isn't bad and when you calculate having to use filters, and refill media, and still having no real way of telling if moisture is present, other than opening pumps and guns, it's a wash with time and money. I highly recommend it. You can go to your local HVAC supply house and tell them you need a N2 cyl and they will likely sell to you, even though they don't sell to the public normally. Just say it's for welding. I wouldn't mention airguns though.