Crosman Vantage NP
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Crosman Vantage NP
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Topic: Crosman Vantage NP (Read 3749 times))
rafterp
Shooter
Posts: 83
yes
Real Name: Dale
Crosman Vantage NP
«
on:
January 14, 2018, 05:29:38 PM »
This is the first really powerful airgun I've had. Unfortunately, it seems to be too powerful for its own good. I bought it from PA in a combo package. By the time I learned about the artillery hold, I guess I shot up the useful life of the cheap scope that came on it. Not only did the scope break, but it shoots so hard it sheared one side of the rear mount. I shot less than a small tin of pellets thru it without a scope. It shot fine, but I wanted a scope on it. I did a lot of online research and ordered a Leapers UTG 3-12x44 AO Rifle Scope, EZ-TAP, Ill. Mil-Dot Reticle, 1/4 MOA, 30mm Tube. At the same time I ordered the Leapers Accushot 1-Pc Mount w/1" Rings, High, 11mm Dovetail. When it arrived, I mounted the scope. I fixed the mount to the dovetail, tightened to spec and then removed each screw and loctited. I placed the scope where I wanted it, tightened the screws in a zig-zag pattern to spec. I unscrewed one at a time and loctited each and screwed back in. Don't know if it was necessary, but I let it cure 24hrs before shooting. Today I was sighting it in and I started to get close to "minute-of-squirrel head"...then some flyers. I started out by checking the stock screws (they were good...I had replaced the phillips screws with allen heads and loctited them in when I was waiting for the scope). Then I looked at the mount, and there was a small sliver of aluminum peeling off the mount. I unscrewed the mount, and the recoil had sheared the stop pin that fits in that little hole on the dovetail! I remounted it without the stop pin. Started getting close to dialed in again, and started getting weird flyers. I checked and saw that the mount was sliding back off the dovetail...AND, it had loosened all four screws on the front rings!
Do any of ya'll have an idea of how to mount this scope to where it doesn't shoot loose? I love the scope, but can't get this thing dialed in, due to the recoil its generating. I'm wondering if I need to get some kind of steel mounts and rings?
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USA, Texas, Fort Davis
huskert
Shooter
Posts: 33
yes
Real Name: Tre
Re: Crosman Vantage NP
«
Reply #1 on:
January 14, 2018, 06:20:39 PM »
If it is new, I would utilize any warranty/return options. If it is out of warranty, you can try putting loctite or JB weld epoxy on the rail mounts. The JB weld option is going to be semi permanent, but can be removed with a good bit of heat. Hope this helps
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US, NC, Catawba
rafterp
Shooter
Posts: 83
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Real Name: Dale
Re: Crosman Vantage NP
«
Reply #2 on:
January 14, 2018, 07:02:21 PM »
Thanks Tre...I'm not sure about the gun's warranty. I just got the scope mounts, so maybe they are? I thought about the JB Weld, but hated to resort to something that crude, just to make this thing shoot. Might have to though.
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USA, Texas, Fort Davis
Jeff Marshall
Sharp Shooter
Posts: 764
Hey now! Iko Iko un day, Jock-a-mo fee-no a na-ne
Real Name: Jeff Marshall
Re: Crosman Vantage NP
«
Reply #3 on:
January 14, 2018, 07:30:58 PM »
It is not unusual for theses Chinese guns to come with damaged piston seals.
If your seal is damaged, your gun will have piston slam, no mount will hold and no scope will survive.
If your seal is not damaged, you probably didn't tighten your mount screws sufficiently tight.
My nitro piston gun has a 4-12 scope mounted with two piece mounts, fastener threads lubed with grease, and no stop pin, and there is no slippage or loosening of screws.
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mentolio
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Sharp Shooter
Posts: 715
Ummmmm.....sure
Real Name: Jeff
Re: Crosman Vantage NP
«
Reply #4 on:
January 14, 2018, 08:33:31 PM »
My first hi-powered air gun was also a Vantage NP in .177. It killed a total of five scopes (three bundled 4x32s, and two upgrade 3-9x32s). This with three rebuilds (different reasons). This gun killed scopes until I installed the action in a Venom Dusk synthetic stock. My problem was poor craftsmanship in the rear "lug brace" area. Basically, the wood work was such that the lug brace was a sloppy fit in the wood, and the rifle could not be tightly bedded. Basically, as the screws loosened, the action was moving in the stock with the recoil, and transferring all the shock to the scope. New stock, tightly bedded, the screws no longer come loose, and my UTG 3-12x44 SWAT compact has been riding on there for three or four years with no problems at all.
Jmara has something with his bad seal suggestion. Every cheap break barrel I have bought (with only one exception) has benefitted from anew seal/rebuild. Stock these NPs can be so harsh in the shot cycle, you wonder why you bought it. With a good seal and rebuild, they can be so silky smooth you wonder how people live without them.
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Gloucester County, NJ
If I shot half as good as you, you'd still shoot twice as good as me!
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rafterp
Shooter
Posts: 83
yes
Real Name: Dale
Re: Crosman Vantage NP
«
Reply #5 on:
January 14, 2018, 10:32:41 PM »
Thanks gentlemen! I guess maybe I should take it apart and check out the seals? Is this something repairable from home, or needs to go back to Crosman? This "piston slam" thing makes sense, but being it was my first, I had nothing to compare to. Jeff when you ordered the synthetic stock, did you "soft bed" the action?
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USA, Texas, Fort Davis
lefteyeshot
without hope, without fear
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Real Name: Tim
Re: Crosman Vantage NP
«
Reply #6 on:
January 14, 2018, 10:51:08 PM »
You need a one piece mount or maybe a one piece 11mm to weaver adapter with with weaver rings. You said you tightened to spec. I tighten to as tight as I can get it. If I strip a screw allen head I drill it out to get it off the scope and get another mount. If it groups well for several shots then starts giving you flyers the mount's moving. If the seal's damaged it's all flyers.
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rafterp
Shooter
Posts: 83
yes
Real Name: Dale
Re: Crosman Vantage NP
«
Reply #7 on:
January 14, 2018, 11:08:16 PM »
Thanks Tim...it is a one-piece mount (Leapers Accushot). And yes, the mount is moving...it sheared the stop pin off. I think I will try mounting it with Red Loctite and see if that will hold it. I watched a video earlier about disassembling the nitro piston. I think I will take it apart and see if the seal is damaged. It's shot hard since I bought it, but I just thought that was how it ought to be.
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USA, Texas, Fort Davis
huskert
Shooter
Posts: 33
yes
Real Name: Tre
Re: Crosman Vantage NP
«
Reply #8 on:
January 15, 2018, 05:06:33 PM »
Red loctite isn't as hard to get loose as people make it out to be. A little heat with a soldering iron will break it loose. Believe it or not, a lot of long range precision shooters bed their mounts/rings to a rifle with epoxies eg acraglass. JB weld is very similar as I have used it to bed rifles before. Whatever you decide to do, de-grease the rails and then put a little loctite on them to in addition to the screws. One of the two methods will hold the 1 piece mount on.
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US, NC, Catawba
mentolio
Follow me, I'll show you where to crash.
Sharp Shooter
Posts: 715
Ummmmm.....sure
Real Name: Jeff
Re: Crosman Vantage NP
«
Reply #9 on:
January 15, 2018, 08:38:02 PM »
Rafterp: no, I didn't "bed" the actions t all. What I meant was that the rear lug brace (for a Venom Dusk, like the stock) was a MUCH better/tighter fit in the stock, and allows ZERO movement of the action (as long as the screws are kept tight).
Being a Nitro Piston, you will need a spring compressor (easy to make) to safely get it apart. The NP is not preloaded much (unlike a steel spring, which can have more than an inch of preload), but offers a LOT MORE resistance/tension than a steel spring. There are many links that describe how to tear it down, clean it up, and replace the piston seal. Doing all that, with proper lubes, and you won't believe the difference.
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Gloucester County, NJ
If I shot half as good as you, you'd still shoot twice as good as me!
Webley Valuemax .20: airgunning's best kept secret...shhhhh!
rafterp
Shooter
Posts: 83
yes
Real Name: Dale
Re: Crosman Vantage NP
«
Reply #10 on:
January 15, 2018, 11:26:05 PM »
Thanks for all your help gentlemen. The rifle's out of warranty, so I think I'm just going to buy a new seal and try to repair it myself and see what I can learn. I realize you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. I'm aggravated that this thing arrived shooting this way (there weren't any sudden changes...it always shot this way since I bought it). I know $100 isn't a lot, but seems like proper functionality should be worth $100! I'm going to check with PA and see if they'll replace the 1pc mount and install it after I get the internals slicked up. Got a great tip today on some stuff called "Vibra-Tite" and I'm going to try it and see what happens. If I can locate some of that adhesive-backed rubber, I'm going to try to soft-bed the stock and see what that does too. Also, if I go by what I've read so far, seems like I need to make some brass bushings for the pivot. All-in-all, should give me some "winter projects". Again, thanks for your assistance!
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USA, Texas, Fort Davis
rafterp
Shooter
Posts: 83
yes
Real Name: Dale
Re: Crosman Vantage NP
«
Reply #11 on:
January 17, 2018, 10:54:34 AM »
Morning ya'll! Ordered a sling mount from Crosman, to put on my Vantage. Any ideas on how to remove the link pin from the lever assembly? I can't tell if it unscrews or drifts out?
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USA, Texas, Fort Davis
Roadworthy
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Real Name: Thomas
Re: Crosman Vantage NP
«
Reply #12 on:
January 17, 2018, 11:31:13 AM »
If you mean the pin holding the cocking linkage to the barrel I believe you need a drift punch to remove it. It may be difficult to reinstall so many simply purchase a new pin.
It is not normally removed. The linkage is usually left attached at that end. When replacing barrels folks usually purchase new cocking linkage and pin at that time and switch them out as a unit.
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Near the Southern Coast of Washington State
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rafterp
Shooter
Posts: 83
yes
Real Name: Dale
Re: Crosman Vantage NP
«
Reply #13 on:
January 17, 2018, 11:38:14 AM »
Thanks Tom...got a sling mount from Crosman that is for the Benjamin Trail NP. Thought I could just remove the pin and install the sling mount. Might have to re-think that little idea, lol.
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USA, Texas, Fort Davis
mentolio
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Sharp Shooter
Posts: 715
Ummmmm.....sure
Real Name: Jeff
Re: Crosman Vantage NP
«
Reply #14 on:
January 20, 2018, 08:47:20 AM »
Yeah...I ordered a Trail barrel for mine. The barrel block on the Trail barrel is designed with extra space to accommodate the front sling mount that the Vantage barrel block does not have. Roadworthy is correct in that the link pin is not reusable. You will have to drill out the "flared" side of the pin then drive it out and either throw it in the trash, or put it in your parts bin for when you start experimenting with used pumpers.
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Gloucester County, NJ
If I shot half as good as you, you'd still shoot twice as good as me!
Webley Valuemax .20: airgunning's best kept secret...shhhhh!
rafterp
Shooter
Posts: 83
yes
Real Name: Dale
Re: Crosman Vantage NP
«
Reply #15 on:
January 20, 2018, 10:23:06 AM »
Thanks...I think I might just drill a hole in the linkage, down from the link pin. I saw a YT vid in which a guy did just that and then used a bike chain link to fasten his sling mount.
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USA, Texas, Fort Davis
DonH
Plinker
Posts: 290
yes
Re: Crosman Vantage NP
«
Reply #16 on:
January 24, 2018, 09:50:52 PM »
My first Springer was a Vantage np .177. It took almost 1000 rounds to break it in! Don't bother putting your scope on it until you break it in. After it's broken in, it'll make one ragged hole at 15 yards. It'll take heavy pellets. Mine liked the Crosman Ultra Mags 10.5 gr. brown box. You can take some modelers clay and see if the bed is tight.
«
Last Edit: January 24, 2018, 09:55:52 PM by DonH
»
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rafterp
Shooter
Posts: 83
yes
Real Name: Dale
Re: Crosman Vantage NP
«
Reply #17 on:
January 25, 2018, 01:01:25 AM »
That's a new one on me, Don. What exactly do you do with the modeler's clay? I don't have any, but could probably scare up some Playdoh. I've started on my 4th tin of pellets, so not quite to 1000 yet. I think I've determined that I need to take it all apart and check the seal, because it shoots hard! Hard enough to break scope mounts. 2 so far; the rear mount on the cheap scope it came with, and broke the stop pin off the Leapers Accushot mount I just put on it.
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USA, Texas, Fort Davis
lillysdad621
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 3537
Re: Crosman Vantage NP
«
Reply #18 on:
February 04, 2018, 01:16:02 PM »
Dale, what pellets are you using? moving to a heavier pellet may soften the firing cycle some... and you do have some options like the crosman UM (10.5 gr), the cudas (10.65), JSB fatties (10.3) or even the whincherser domes (9.8, i think). and gamo also makes a heavy pellet. by slowing down the lock time you may spread some of the energy delivered by the rear snap. Also shearing a pin is not that common UNLESS it was not fully seated on the stop hole. try 1 piece mounts, loosely mounted on the rail, drop the pin til it bottoms out and then apply pressure on the allen enough to raise the mount up a bit. this will make the rail sit a bit lifted in the rear. Then tighten the mount up. that has always worked for me on this type of issues. And as they mentioned before, i dont think the seal is damaged as that would give you inconsistent velocity on every shot, so they would group a lot wider.
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Georgia
Ultramarine
Sharp Shooter
Posts: 664
Real Name: Yves
Re: Crosman Vantage NP
«
Reply #19 on:
February 04, 2018, 03:04:52 PM »
I bought a .177 caliber version in October 2016. Though limited to a 20 joules power (14,75 fpe) in France, I quickly realized it belonged to the "hard kicking" air rifle category. Gently modded the trigger (ball bearing trick - really efficient, BTW). 't was the first time I used what's an allmost magnum type of a break barrel air rifle.
Once I shot 500 pellets with it, I considered reasonnable to put a scope on it. Lost it full broken after about 20 shots...
So I installed a sturdy Baikal "all steel" rear sight on the dovetail, I had found on a rifles dedicated french website . A bit of tinkering but, for your information, although it can be tightened on the dovetail with an efficient screw, and although I used pliers for this, it moved back in some millimeters after only a few 20 shots!
Tightened it a bit more (?!). As shot dispersion became excessive and shots were noisy, I changed the breech seal and everything went back OK (thanks GTA friends). Thightened all screws once again, including the pivot ones, cleaned the barrel and since then, I really enjoy shooting this rifle, with a really decent accuracy for the poor shooter I'm. I use Stoeger X-Field 8.64gr pellets.
Ah, and I added an LDC from Diana on the muzzle which, whatever can be said about the uselessness of those devices on a spring or gas piston break barrels, significantly reduced its shot reports. Anyway, that's my neighbor's dog opinion (doesn't bark any often).
So, to sum that up : keep shooting, keep all screws tightened and enjoy !
I'm not sure this helped in any way, but it's from experience....
PS : shall I try to put a scope on it once again . Err... let me think about it once more
.
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