GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: Firewalker on March 14, 2023, 11:14:41 PM
-
I ordered a Umarex Notos CRK from Pyramid Air last Thursday and it arrived this afternoon so I just had to tear it down, do a few mods and get some pellets through it before dinner.
The box was inside a considerably larger box with plenty of padding (kraft paper) to keep the gun safe. I opened the box and found pretty normal packaging with the black firm foam snuggling the gun.
We have the front end, the stock and two little baggies of screws, probe and magazine.
-
I laid it out on the table, grabbed punches, allen wrenches, tiny hammer and tweezers and started the teardown process.
Moved the gun over to the gun vice and grabbed the BIG ball peen!
Once I drove both pins out of the end cap, I pulled out the moderator. Interesting idea for a moderator and ready for those with 3D printers to make inserts for. Just imagine the possibilities!!
-
The end cap assembly is pretty simple, an O-ring seals the cap and two pins with a knurled end hold the baffle assembly inside.
Again, I can't wait to see what our printer community comes up with for baffles! Look how simple this insert is, it's SO poorly designed but yet the gun is very quiet. A well designed insert should reduce sound by 5dB easy!
(Anybody? Bueller, Bueller?)
Also, as others have noted, the shroud is threaded on both ends and at first blush, it appears that the JTS Airacuda MAX moderator adapter end cap! No, I was not able to try it myself as I have glued my end cap into my MAX.
Be warned, the grub screw under the hex head screw that holds the picatinny rail is complete carp! You will want to pull it out and replace it ASAP. I was able to reassemble the Notos but just a few pounds of torque rounded out the hex cup.
-
I pulled the barrel and mounted it in my gunsmithing vice, grabbed the cleaning tools and patches and cleaned the barrel until the patches were no longer fruitful. I did not go for a clean metal clean as I was going to JB paste and polish the barrel.
I was delighted to see only 5 patches were needed to do a good cleaning using Hoppes #9 and only 3 patches of JB and Polish were needed to get the bore smooth. No cotton strands were seen after pulling a cotton ball through the barrel, pleasing me greatly!
Looking down the barrel, I saw a well formed and smooth surface. No chatter or typical ribbing, a very nicely made barrel indeed! Cleaning the barrel of the polish took a minute but the end result was clean and dry. I was beginning to get a little excited at this point. Others had posted descent groups but after I finished the cleaning, I went back and pulled a dry patch just to see how smooth the surface was and it occured to me...
NO FREAKING CHOKE!!!
Now I am drooling!
-
After reassembling the gun, I mounted it in the Caldwell and posted a 6 bull target after I got it zeroed in with a 3x9 Bugbuster mounted on the rial, 5 shots shot from 10m.
The results were...
Well...
Unbelievable.
Center to center, left to right, top down:
.148
.223
.095
.238
.058
.148
C'mon, .058 center to center? The kicker? I used CPHP's right out of the tin!
-
More great information about the Notos, thanks David. Loving mine after some adjustments, Umarex seems to have hit a home run with this one. (Well, maybe a triple... better trigger and mags would be a home run for sure!)
-
The Car 12 shot mags are a worth while investment, much nicer and easier to handle than those tiny little 7 shot mags! I'm not surprised at how simplistic the baffle is, but I am quite impressed with how well it works! It would be interesting to see if some individual K baffels would improve the moderation any better. Thanks for posting your tear down review David, and those are some very impressive groups!
-
The Carm mags look very nice indeed. I decided to try one of the ebay 8 shot mags, should be here later this week and will report how they do...
-
My mag is working fine and do is the single loader.
I pulled the trigger and worked it good but will go back inside and replace the trigger spring with a pen spring to see what I get for pull.
I did round the grub end and polish it and the bar but haven't adjusted over travel or shortened pull yet.
-
Can you fix ugly crowns? I have a couple of 25 cal barrels that need some love.
-
Can you fix ugly crowns? I have a couple of 25 cal barrels that need some love.
Can I? Yes!
-
Going into the trigger tonight, swap out springs and adjust over travel.
-
Going into the trigger tonight, swap out springs and adjust over travel.
Looking forward to your results!
-
More great information about the Notos, thanks David. Loving mine after some adjustments, Umarex seems to have hit a home run with this one. (Well, maybe a triple... better trigger and mags would be a home run for sure!)
Hey Steve,
If you pull the trigger, sear, pins and hammer out, I'd be happy to polish the touch surfaces for you...After the AR, P80 and now the Crossman I've gotten pretty good at it.
-
Happy accident.
I pulled the trigger group and spring, replaced it with a pen spring after I closed up the ends a little to fit in the indents, shined up the hammer spur on the sear and cranked up the grub screw.
I reassembled the plate and fired it, broke at 1lb, 4oz, almost zero slack and almost no over travel.
It was then that I discovered that the safety was still on and that I had adjusted it so far that it fired before the safety caught the trigger. Now I have to back it off and add to the other screw to get the same result with the safety stopping the trigger before firing.
Ill keep it this way for now though it is SO SWEET!
-
David, nice write up, tear down, photos and mods on your new Notos!
-
Stop it, I do not want to buy another air rifle!
-
Stop it, I do not want to buy another air rifle!
I agree! They are worse than crack pushers ;D
-
OH!
I discovered that it shoots slugs at 605 fps for 22.3 fpe with 27.5 gr hp's.
.1175" center to center 5 shot groups. Best shooter I own at 10m.
-
Another member did a write up about his Atomic >:( that’s one I’ve been wanting . We’re not helping each other here at all lol. Thanks to Paul I got a Notos.
-
Another member did a write up about his Atomic >:( that’s one I’ve been wanting . We’re not helping each other here at all lol. Thanks to Paul I got a Notos.
You already wanted one… so? If comfortable with it, grow that stable. But beware, the build quality and robustness of the Atomic XR can spoil a shooter for anything less.
-
Another member did a write up about his Atomic >:( that’s one I’ve been wanting . We’re not helping each other here at all lol. Thanks to Paul I got a Notos.
You already wanted one… so? If comfortable with it, grow that stable. But beware, the build quality and robustness of the Atomic XR can spoil a shooter for anything less.
That was your post I was referring too lol . I’ve heard these little guys are built like tanks . Anyway don’t want to change this to a Atomic post sorry OP
-
Shooting slugs... interesting! Are they .217 or .218. I have seen other posts that said that the .217 slugs didn't do too well. I have some 17.5 gn .217 slugs that I have not tried yet. Might have to give them a go to see how they do?
-
Just a question... what would be the purpose of shooting slugs at 10 meters?
-
Would slugs open up at that speed ?
-
Weight brings the down range power and impact up. Remember them heavy slug like pellets that never shot worth a dam, they give slugs a bad name LOL
I find low speed slugs accurate out to the typical range that the gun normally would perform out to.
-
Good write up my man. David
-
Would slugs open up at that speed ?
I think it depends on what they are hitting. My .177 10.03 JSB slugs open up to a bit larger than bore diameter in water at 850 FPS muzzle velocity. At the same speed they sometimes open up to .3" at the widest point when they get stuck inside of a red squirrel. More often they just "icepick" right through and leave a .2" ish hole on the exit. I also feel like a .177 is probably the worst case scenario for slug expansion and .22 should perform better. At 600-ish FPS I would not expect them to expand much in water, but in flesh or ballistics gel they just might.
Going by Dave's measured muzzle energy I think the 17.5 NSA's might be good for 700+ FPS, which is pretty decent and not far off for some PB handgun velocities.
-
Very interesting regarding slugs I guess as long as it’s accurate in the Notos then run them
-
Shooting slugs... interesting! Are they .217 or .218. I have seen other posts that said that the .217 slugs didn't do too well. I have some 17.5 gn .217 slugs that I have not tried yet. Might have to give them a go to see how they do?
.2175, 27.5gr
-
Just a question... what would be the purpose of shooting slugs at 10 meters?
Having fun in the shop when there is 4 feet of snow pack on the ground is all the purpose this nut needs. ::)
In all seriousness, I saw that the barrel wasn't choked so I was curious and I know the .2175 NSA's are able to do MOA @ 100y so I said to myself, "Self, I wanna shoot some slugs." And I replied, "Your a Daisy if you don't!"
-
I don't see a practical use for slugs in the Notos....but a lot of things in the airgun world don't depend on practicality. :o Sometimes we just have to try something! ;D
-
I certainly understand both previous posts...
Thanks for being honest and not trying to justify. ;)
-
I don't see a practical use for slugs in the Notos....but a lot of things in the airgun world don't depend on practicality. :o Sometimes we just have to try something! ;D
I have some 17gr cast slugs that are PC, I will try them as well as the Daisy HP's tonight.
I Normally try everything I own in a new gun to see how it shoots anyway.
-
Hehe, yesterday I was shooting CP Domes at 50 yards in the Notos, just to see how they would do. Small plastic Easter Eggs were a pretty easy target,
I am still amazed how well the Notos shoots Crosman pellets, even at that range. Never going after any game at that distance with the Notos, but nice to know it can be accurate at that range.
-
Hehe, yesterday I was shooting CP Domes at 50 yards in the Notos, just to see how they would do. Small plastic Easter Eggs were a pretty easy target,
I am still amazed how well the Notos shoots Crosman pellets, even at that range. Never going after any game at that distance with the Notos, but nice to know it can be accurate at that range.
Any gun that shoots CP is a winner in my book :)
-
Hehe, yesterday I was shooting CP Domes at 50 yards in the Notos, just to see how they would do. Small plastic Easter Eggs were a pretty easy target,
I am still amazed how well the Notos shoots Crosman pellets, even at that range. Never going after any game at that distance with the Notos, but nice to know it can be accurate at that range.
I've noticed most people have good luck with Crosman pellets in SPA barrels. In fact, they seem to do very well with most brands. I get slightly tighter groups with H&N FTT 14.66g, but CPHP is also "minute of wine cork" at 30m.
-
Dang it all!!! I have to try slugs now?
Just had a chance to try the CPHPs at 50 yards yesterday. Only had time to shoot a couple at 15 yards to check zero
then 5 shots at 50. I know, one 5 shot group means nothing....but,
With swirling winds all 5 land inside a one inch square and 4 could be completely covered with a nickle.
Even if slugs won't expand at these velocities,,, if they shoot flat enough trajectories accurate enough...
they're still worth exploring for longer shots or shots that need deeper penetration
-
If I want the slugs to open at 600 fpe, Ill do what Motorhead did and "help 'em out a little"
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=182523.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=182523.0)
-
i went & picked up my Notos yesterday , purchased from Utah airguns, had to have it shipped to a gun dealer(friggin Illinois laws), anyway it was a 60 mile round trip..got home late ,& now today it is 11 degrees out, so other than cleaning it , i will not try it till monday when it warms up, if it is acurate like the ones i have saw in vids i have watched , i will love this A/G it is light wt,( one of the reasons i have been a fan of the P Rods for yrs i have 5 of them).. looks like i will be ordering 2 x the Carm 12 shot mags..
-
FYI:
Baffle insert dimensions:
-
Thanks for the additional info, David.
From your image below, where to the parts "A" and "B" fit, and what is the internal length of "C"?
How are parts "A" and "B" retained? At least one of them by cross pin.
The reason I ask, is it seems like the can is much longer than the red insert; although that might be a matter of lens perspective because the can is closer to the lens than the insert shells. If there is a longer space inside the can is it ahead of the red clamshell insert?
If there is more open space in the can, then that provides an opportunity to reconfigure how the total space is used.
For the benefit of others who want to have a go, Dave told me that the can ID is .959" (24.35mm.
-
??? I just went to see about buying a Notos, they seem to be sold out everywhere :o
-
??? I just went to see about buying a Notos, they seem to be sold out everywhere :o
It's an omen.
-
Sorry, but I don't expect to see too many of these on the used market anytime soon. They really are nice shooters for what they are intended for. :D
-
??? I just went to see about buying a Notos, they seem to be sold out everywhere :o
It's an omen.
Lol everyone read our posts .
-
??? I just went to see about buying a Notos, they seem to be sold out everywhere :o
It's an omen.
Lol everyone read our posts .
I told you we should have hit up Umarex for a commission!!!! ;D
-
??? I just went to see about buying a Notos, they seem to be sold out everywhere :o
It's an omen.
Lol everyone read our posts .
I told you we should have hit up Umarex for a commission!!!! ;D
When the next flavor comes out I know what we’re doing for sure
-
Thanks for the additional info, David.
From your image below, where to the parts "A" and "B" fit, and what is the internal length of "C"?
How are parts "A" and "B" retained? At least one of them by cross pin.
The reason I ask, is it seems like the can is much longer than the red insert; although that might be a matter of lens perspective because the can is closer to the lens than the insert shells. If there is a longer space inside the can is it ahead of the red clamshell insert?
If there is more open space in the can, then that provides an opportunity to reconfigure how the total space is used.
For the benefit of others who want to have a go, Dave told me that the can ID is .959" (24.35mm.
Ill pull the mod again and will measure ALL of the available space.
The cap, o-ring and pins are on the right, the insert goes in, the o-ring goes on the cutout on the inside of the cap, the cap is inserted into the housing and the pins are inserted from side to side to capture the cap.
-
Umarex just sent me a 15% off code for purchases.
Do you think Notos needs a Brotos?
-
Umarex just sent me a 15% off code for purchases.
Do you think Notos needs a Brotos?
Are they in stock? Last I checked Umarex didn't even have them!
-
Umarex just sent me a 15% off code for purchases.
Do you think Notos needs a Brotos?
Are they in stock? Last I checked Umarex didn't even have them!
Not in stock but they do have them...
https://www.umarexusa.com/2254847 (https://www.umarexusa.com/2254847)
-
So, rather than reinvent the wheel, I have two insert designs you might be tempted to try, Dave. They should be direct replacements for the clam-shell stock parts.
Considering there is a diminishing return on adding baffles, while making the chambers smaller and closer together, my money is on the four chamber version being the better one; by a small margin. More slanted cones work better at lower bulk pressure, considering the low FPE rating of the Notos.
It is up to you to find someone to print either or both of these for you, Dave.
I recommend Bob or Mike on the forum, as they do good prints at low rates:
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=profile;u=19269 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=profile;u=19269)
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=profile;u=67950 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=profile;u=67950)
Ask for PETG material.
The STL print files are attached below.
The parts should printed with the narrow end facing up off the platen, at 100% infill, with supports turned off. Else you will get garbage prints.
-
So, rather than reinvent the wheel, I have two insert designs you might be tempted to try, Dave. They should be direct replacements for the clam-shell stock parts.
Considering there is a diminishing return on adding baffles, while making the chambers smaller and closer together, my money is on the four chamber version being the better one; by a small margin. More slanted cones work better at lower bulk pressure, considering the low FPE rating of the Notos.
It is up to you to find someone to print either or both of these for you, Dave.
I recommend Bob or Mike on the forum, as they do good prints at low rates:
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=profile;u=19269 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=profile;u=19269)
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=profile;u=67950 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=profile;u=67950)
Ask for PETG material.
The STL print files are attached below.
The parts should printed with the narrow end facing up off the platen, at 100% infill, with supports turned off. Else you will get garbage prints.
Outstanding! Thank you, I will hit them up in the morning.
-
The urge to get something new and tinker won! I couldn't resist any longer; I bought the last one they had in stock at New England Airgun. :D Now I need to pick an optic.
-
:o Darn you Dino... J/K If I / When I get one , seems like a pretty much shoot as is for the most part gun. meanwhile I Have aJet 1 .25 on the way that just needssome mods to fit my needs. Happy shooting with your Notos ;D 8)
-
my first complaint is the mickey mouse scope rail it flex's ..
-
my first complaint is the mickey mouse scope rail it flex's ..
How big a scope you got mounted on it? I have a Bug Buster on mine and it seems really solid!
-
my first complaint is the mickey mouse scope rail it flex's ..
How big a scope you got mounted on it? I have a Bug Buster on mine and it seems really solid!
Hawke 2-7 doesent move
-
So, rather than reinvent the wheel, I have two insert designs you might be tempted to try, Dave. They should be direct replacements for the clam-shell stock parts.
Considering there is a diminishing return on adding baffles, while making the chambers smaller and closer together, my money is on the four chamber version being the better one; by a small margin. More slanted cones work better at lower bulk pressure, considering the low FPE rating of the Notos.
It is up to you to find someone to print either or both of these for you, Dave.
I recommend Bob or Mike on the forum, as they do good prints at low rates:
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=profile;u=19269 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=profile;u=19269)
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=profile;u=67950 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=profile;u=67950)
Ask for PETG material.
The STL print files are attached below.
The parts should printed with the narrow end facing up off the platen, at 100% infill, with supports turned off. Else you will get garbage prints.
They are printed and coming Monday!!
I cant thank you and Mike (Bob, thank you as well) for the quick responses and work.
Subscriber, I think you mentioned going out past the end on the housing, can you design a moderator that extends past the front? More baffles, more quiet! ;D
I can drill the pin holes in a jig so see if you can put a band there or an open space where the cap inserts. Measurements coming in a few minutes of the whole interior of the housing...
-
Subscriber, I think you mentioned going out past the end on the housing, can you design a moderator that extends past the front? More baffles, more quiet! ;D
I can drill the pin holes in a jig so see if you can put a band there or an open space where the cap inserts. Measurements coming in a few minutes of the whole interior of the housing...
I sure can. Just need dimensions. Especially of interfaces that need to fit.
-
my first complaint is the mickey mouse scope rail it flex's ..
I see no movement on mine. What's going on with yours?
-
i did not mount anything yet , just cleaned it yesterday, & noticed the plastic that the rail is on will move, i am going to mount lightweight discovery ffp sf 4x16x44 that i have laying around, it weighs just over 19 oz's.
-
i did not mount anything yet , just cleaned it yesterday, & noticed the plastic that the rail is on will move, i am going to mount lightweight discovery ffp sf 4x16x44 that i have laying around, it weighs just over 19 oz's.
Honestly, I would return it and have them swap it out for a new one, I ran out and checked mine, took the scope off and moved the rail back and forth, all solid. You may have gotten one that has some slop.
Sorry.
-
i did not mount anything yet , just cleaned it yesterday, & noticed the plastic that the rail is on will move, i am going to mount lightweight discovery ffp sf 4x16x44 that i have laying around, it weighs just over 19 oz's.
That doesn’t sound right.
-
i did not mount anything yet , just cleaned it yesterday, & noticed the plastic that the rail is on will move, i am going to mount lightweight discovery ffp sf 4x16x44 that i have laying around, it weighs just over 19 oz's.
Honestly, I would return it and have them swap it out for a new one, I ran out and checked mine, took the scope off and moved the rail back and forth, all solid. You may have gotten one that has some slop.
Sorry.
Exchange
-
you're prints.
-
they dont have another one for exchange plus , i had to have it shipped to a firearms dealer due to frigging Illinois laws , lucky i have a FOID card or i would not have received it.
-
Mike, that is impressive speed. A blink, and you are done printing.
-
Subscriber, I think you mentioned going out past the end on the housing, can you design a moderator that extends past the front? More baffles, more quiet! ;D
I can drill the pin holes in a jig so see if you can put a band there or an open space where the cap inserts. Measurements coming in a few minutes of the whole interior of the housing...
I sure can. Just need dimensions. Especially of interfaces that need to fit.
If you want to match the existing can OD, I need that too.
-
you're prints.
Purple=Purdy!
Minnesota Vikings, people! C'mon, not a Prince thing at all! ;D ;)
-
Subscriber, I think you mentioned going out past the end on the housing, can you design a moderator that extends past the front? More baffles, more quiet! ;D
I can drill the pin holes in a jig so see if you can put a band there or an open space where the cap inserts. Measurements coming in a few minutes of the whole interior of the housing...
I sure can. Just need dimensions. Especially of interfaces that need to fit.
If you want to match the existing can OD, I need that too.
Honesty Time With David:
YES! I want to match the outside dimension, colors or not, no never mind to me. I have been so busy shooting (a second tin in one weekend) the Notos that I have yet to pull the cap and measure the guts', I will get to it this week sometime.
-
I guess that Notos must be fun for it to cause the small change in the probable timing of events suggested by the quotes below. It matters to me only because in a week or so I am going to become very distracted getting ready for an extended walkabout in the old country. At that point I won't be able to help anyone with anything.
Measurements coming in a few minutes of the whole interior of the housing...
I will get to it this week sometime.
-
I guess that Notos must be fun for it to cause the small change in the probable timing of events suggested by the quotes below. It matters to me only because in a week or so I am going to become very distracted getting ready for an extended walkabout in the old country. At that point I won't be able to help anyone with anything.
Measurements coming in a few minutes of the whole interior of the housing...
I will get to it this week sometime.
True that!
I pulled the hammer and punches then settled down to shoot off the 66 sq ft bottle. 500 CPHP's later, I still haven't pulled those pins.
Go walk-about, mate, this can wait.
-
Well, Dave, I am motivated to have fun, even if I don't have specs :)
I made a few assumptions, including that you might want about a 60 mm extension. What might such a design look like. Something like the images below, perhaps...
-
I love the escalating baffle depth You have designed!I bet that's gonna knock down 4-6 decibels easily!
-
I love the escalating baffle depth You have designed!
I dubbed that style of baffle depth and angle progression, plume. If that makes no sense, it is based on the changing shape of a gas cloud, after releasing it abruptly from high pressure into a low pressure space.
-
My Notos mag gave up the ghost this afternoon. The mag plastic cover split in two places when I was rotating it to start a new load. Wasn't doing anything out of the ordinary but the mag split right where the little pin goes through by the screw. :o
I have one of the ebay 8 shot mags on the way (should be here next couple days) but in the meantime the single shot tray is back in. Don't mind shooting single shot, pretty used to it with my Airforce Escape UL.
-
Get the CARM Magazine, no clear plastic cover to break, more shots per magazine and way easier to reload! ;D
-
Have been a little worried about the single mag it came with....
How much clearance do the CARM mags need?
-
Have been a little worried about the single mag it came with....
How much clearance do the CARM mags need?
They extend just a tad under ½" [.4915"] above the top of the picatinny rail.
-
How many rounds before you change the breech o'ring do you folks think?
-
Wendell, this picture will give you an idea about clearance with the CARM Mags.
-
How many rounds before you change the breech o'ring do you folks think?
Every once in a while drop a drip of silicone on the pellet probe to lube the o ring it should last a long time.
-
How many rounds before you change the breech o'ring do you folks think?
I change them when air bypasses the ring, depending on the gun, about 2k?
-
Thanks Mike and firewalker, I do the oil drops, have a stoeger xm1 that went to &^^& on accuracy and that was the fix😊 lovin the notos
-
Wendell, this picture will give you an idea about clearance with the CARM Mags.
Is that the standard capacity or high capacity mag from CARM?
For what it's worth, I also notice a difference in POI when going between CARM and factory mags.
-
DJ, pretty sure that picture was of a high capacity 12 round magazine. Interesting that the magazine changes POI for you...
-
POI changing IS interesting but not a deal breaker if it stays in one place with the new mags.
Am I understanding there is a standard capacity CARM? That'd keep me needing to use taller rings
-
POI changing IS interesting but not a deal breaker if it stays in one place with the new mags.
Am I understanding there is a standard capacity CARM? That'd keep me needing to use taller rings
Yes they have a smaller magazine I think it’s 6 shots or something
-
Interesting that POI changes with different mags... I can't help but wonder if there is also a change with a single shot tray?
-
Not noticed a change between the stock mag and SST but will start paying closer attenton
-
Different mag should not change POI; unless:
The pellets are mangled differently on loading;
or positioning the pellet in the chamber differently;
or, the mag is applying loads, spreading the receiver, and then moving the sights or the barrel.
The latter seems unlikely, unless one mag seems very tight on insertion, compared to another.
-
Do you notice if one type mag fits tighter or looser in the breech?
-
I have 2 CARM mags in .177 for my SPA guns. Something I have noticed with one of them... the last pellet is harder to push into the breech. It's like there is an alignment issue with the carousel on that last pellet. It does not shoot any different once loaded and the other mag does not do this.
-
POI changing IS interesting but not a deal breaker if it stays in one place with the new mags.
Am I understanding there is a standard capacity CARM? That'd keep me needing to use taller rings
Yes, the standard capacity CARM mags should have the same external dimensions as the factory mags.
Different mag should not change POI; unless:
The pellets are mangled differently on loading;
or positioning the pellet in the chamber differently;
or, the mag is applying loads, spreading the receiver, and then moving the sights or the barrel.
The latter seems unlikely, unless one mag seems very tight on insertion, compared to another.
I've noticed the change in POI with both my 177 and 22 when going between factory mags and CARM mags, pellets and slugs. The factory mags are very much pellet/slug manglers, so that's my theory.
-
I've noticed the change in POI with both my 177 and 22 when going between factory mags and CARM mags, pellets and slugs. The factory mags are very much pellet/slug manglers, so that's my theory.
So the CARM mags represent the true unmagled POI. A change for the better. Nothing bad about an improvement.
-
I've noticed the change in POI with both my 177 and 22 when going between factory mags and CARM mags, pellets and slugs. The factory mags are very much pellet/slug manglers, so that's my theory.
So the CARM mags represent the true unmagled POI. A change for the better. Nothing bad about an improvement.
I haven't tested back to back with the SST, but I can't find my 22 or 177 trays... Sounds like I need to order more CARM mags and their sing shot loader!
-
Received my EBAY 8 shot Notos Mag this afternoon. Very close to the same size as the standard mag, maybe a couple mm taller, but will not require taller rings. Maybe not quite as much bling as the CARM mags, but mechanically it works the same. (will post pictures later) Only had time to load one mag and run them through the rifle, but all was good with that first 8 shots. The mag does not have a magnet, but fit is good with no play.
-
Received my EBAY 8 shot Notos Mag this afternoon. Very close to the same size as the standard mag, maybe a couple mm taller, but will not require taller rings. Maybe not quite as much bling as the CARM mags, but mechanically it works the same. (will post pictures later) Only had time to load one mag and run them through the rifle, but all was good with that first 8 shots. The mag does not have a magnet, but fit is good with no play.
I wish I could find something other than CARM or OEM for my PR900 and PP800, the mags are very similar.
-
DJ, the same guy that made mine also makes this one: (https://www.ebay.com/itm/115730139144?hash=item1af20dc808:g:nQwAAOSwNdRkD3nV (https://www.ebay.com/itm/115730139144?hash=item1af20dc808:g:nQwAAOSwNdRkD3nV)) says it will fit PP800. He makes several others as well so maybe check him out.
-
Here are the pictures of the Ebay Notos Mag. Hope to get some shooting tomorrow for more testing.
-
I must have exceeded picture size limitation, it left this one out.
-
Would those work in other SPA guns?
-
Bill, he lists several SPA/Artemis guns that he makes mags for. Go to this link for a listing of all his offerings: (https://www.ebay.com/usr/4thdlab?_trksid=p2047675.m3561.l2559 (https://www.ebay.com/usr/4thdlab?_trksid=p2047675.m3561.l2559))
-
Airgun Archery Fun has magazines too I believe they will work according to Wes
https://airgunarcheryfun.ca/pp750-magazine-22-cal-new-design-8-shots/
-
;D The pictures on Wes's site are the same pictures the EBAY site uses...and the EBAY manufacturer is based in Canada... most likely the mags are made by the EBAY guy. When I ordered mine from EBAY, I went to AirgunArcheryfun first but Wes was out of stock. Nice to see he has them back in stock now.
-
DJ, the same guy that made mine also makes this one: (https://www.ebay.com/itm/115730139144?hash=item1af20dc808:g:nQwAAOSwNdRkD3nV (https://www.ebay.com/itm/115730139144?hash=item1af20dc808:g:nQwAAOSwNdRkD3nV)) says it will fit PP800. He makes several others as well so maybe check him out.
I have one of the prototype mags for my 25 cal PP800 (that is now a 177 rifle) that I got from Wes. Perhaps I'll try them in 177 and 22
Edit: the seller also carries other parts like poppets, what a treat!
-
Yeah guys, thanks... I saw that after I asked the question.
-
Yeah guys, thanks... I saw that after I asked the question.
Now I have to figure out how to remove a couple of stripped screws so I can see if that poppet makes more power.
-
I bought some Carm Magazines, 12 shot capacity, work great fits fine with medium ring on the scope.
-
you're prints.
WHELP.., I did a thing. :-[
I received the new moderator inserts from miksatx today so I decided to get some decibel readings from the Notos. Momma is out so I hurried a bit and got the original out and the 4 baffle insert inside the housing, closed it up, grabbed a drink (non-adult) and loaded the gun, aimed and took the first shot.
I didn't mention one step, did I? Yupper, I forgot to pin the end cap and I shot the dB meter with the insert, breaking both the meter and the insert. Here is the insert, the meter is on loan so I dont want to post it but it looks like I will be buying a new one for my friend.
-
OUCH! So, other than the crash on impact, was it quieter? :o
-
Yep, that is a definite Ouch :o :o :o, Bummer :-[
-
I Could not get the dB meter to power on so I grabbed my phone, loaded an app and set it at 10 feet, loaded the 5 baffle insert after I hunted around for the cap and oring for the moderator (they had fallen off the end of the housing onto the floor, no damage), pinned them on and took 3 readings of 84dB, took it out and put the original insert in and repeated the process for 3 shots at 86dB with the split design.
I think the phone app and the microphone are just not equipped for this as an open ended housing shot that rung my ears only registered 87dB.
My own opinion is that the 5 baffle insert is a lot quieter to my ear, not nearly as much high register sound either. I will be working with miksatx and subscriber for versions that protrude beyond the housing.
-
OUCH! So, other than the crash on impact, was it quieter? :o
Um... NOPE! Bang-Smack!
-
Looks like that 100% infill makes for some pretty tough shrapnel yikes! I've shot baffles at my chrony before sh t happens.
-
WOW PETG at 100% is some tough stuffs to be damaging like that.
-
Looks like that 100% infill makes for some pretty tough shrapnel yikes! I've shot baffles at my chrony before sh t happens.
Indeed! It is SUPER strong, "Very Impressive!"
We are going to work on another one that takes advantage of the remaining inch inside the housing that is blocked by a taper at 3.70". Ill bore this sucker out to full ID all the way down to 5" and add another inch for another baffle at the end.
This is going to be FUN!
BTW- nice job on the printing, I could not be happier. ;D
-
WOW PETG at 100% is some tough stuffs to be damaging like that.
I'd show you the dB meter but its in the hands of my friend, he is not pleased right now. :-\
-
WOW PETG at 100% is some tough stuffs to be damaging like that.
I'd show you the dB meter but its in the hands of my friend, he is not pleased right now. :-\
You could PM it if you have a pic but I am sure you will make it right and he wont be as upset.
-
I Could not get the dB meter to power on so I grabbed my phone, loaded an app and set it at 10 feet, loaded the 5 baffle insert after I hunted around for the cap and oring for the moderator (they had fallen off the end of the housing onto the floor, no damage), pinned them on and took 3 readings of 84dB, took it out and put the original insert in and repeated the process for 3 shots at 86dB with the split design.
I think the phone app and the microphone are just not equipped for this as an open ended housing shot that rung my ears only registered 87dB.
My own opinion is that the 5 baffle insert is a lot quieter to my ear, not nearly as much high register sound either. I will be working with miksatx and subscriber for versions that protrude beyond the housing.
10 feet is probably too close for the phone. I had to get 75-100 feet away to avoid audio clipping on an unmoderated Avenger. With these installed, try 10 meters. Also try to find an app that sets audio gain to a fixed amount -- no good if it leaves the phone in "auto."
Nice printing job! -- nothing like good old destructive testing to find there's no voids or layer lines to be seen. :)
But lilac? Seriously? That LDC pulled the pin to end its suffering.
-
I Could not get the dB meter to power on so I grabbed my phone, loaded an app and set it at 10 feet, loaded the 5 baffle insert after I hunted around for the cap and oring for the moderator (they had fallen off the end of the housing onto the floor, no damage), pinned them on and took 3 readings of 84dB, took it out and put the original insert in and repeated the process for 3 shots at 86dB with the split design.
I think the phone app and the microphone are just not equipped for this as an open ended housing shot that rung my ears only registered 87dB.
My own opinion is that the 5 baffle insert is a lot quieter to my ear, not nearly as much high register sound either. I will be working with miksatx and subscriber for versions that protrude beyond the housing.
10 feet is probably too close for the phone. I had to get 75-100 feet away to avoid audio clipping on an unmoderated Avenger. With these installed, try 10 meters. Also try to find an app that sets audio gain to a fixed amount -- no good if it leaves the phone in "auto."
Nice printing job! -- nothing like good old destructive testing to find there's no voids or layer lines to be seen. :)
But lilac? Seriously? That LDC pulled the pin to end its suffering.
I dig the color.
-
I Could not get the dB meter to power on so I grabbed my phone, loaded an app and set it at 10 feet, loaded the 5 baffle insert after I hunted around for the cap and oring for the moderator (they had fallen off the end of the housing onto the floor, no damage), pinned them on and took 3 readings of 84dB, took it out and put the original insert in and repeated the process for 3 shots at 86dB with the split design.
I think the phone app and the microphone are just not equipped for this as an open ended housing shot that rung my ears only registered 87dB.
My own opinion is that the 5 baffle insert is a lot quieter to my ear, not nearly as much high register sound either. I will be working with miksatx and subscriber for versions that protrude beyond the housing.
10 feet is probably too close for the phone. I had to get 75-100 feet away to avoid audio clipping on an unmoderated Avenger. With these installed, try 10 meters. Also try to find an app that sets audio gain to a fixed amount -- no good if it leaves the phone in "auto."
Nice printing job! -- nothing like good old destructive testing to find there's no voids or layer lines to be seen. :)
But lilac? Seriously? That LDC pulled the pin to end its suffering.
Whats wrong with lilac?
-
WOW PETG at 100% is some tough stuffs to be damaging like that.
I'd show you the dB meter but its in the hands of my friend, he is not pleased right now. :-\
You could PM it if you have a pic but I am sure you will make it right and he wont be as upset.
He already has it at home, it pushed the mic into the body and made a mess of the board. Total loss.
-
I Could not get the dB meter to power on so I grabbed my phone, loaded an app and set it at 10 feet, loaded the 5 baffle insert after I hunted around for the cap and oring for the moderator (they had fallen off the end of the housing onto the floor, no damage), pinned them on and took 3 readings of 84dB, took it out and put the original insert in and repeated the process for 3 shots at 86dB with the split design.
I think the phone app and the microphone are just not equipped for this as an open ended housing shot that rung my ears only registered 87dB.
My own opinion is that the 5 baffle insert is a lot quieter to my ear, not nearly as much high register sound either. I will be working with miksatx and subscriber for versions that protrude beyond the housing.
10 feet is probably too close for the phone. I had to get 75-100 feet away to avoid audio clipping on an unmoderated Avenger. With these installed, try 10 meters. Also try to find an app that sets audio gain to a fixed amount -- no good if it leaves the phone in "auto."
Nice printing job! -- nothing like good old destructive testing to find there's no voids or layer lines to be seen. :)
But lilac? Seriously? That LDC pulled the pin to end its suffering.
Bwaaaahhhhhaaaahhhhhhaaaa! ;D ;)
-
Seems I paid 15 bucks for my meter couple years ago. Lol after shooting a couple chrony I started buying the cheap ones lol.
-
I got the dB meter replaced, Amazon is delivering it Thursday to him. It was an EXTECH from Grainger, he paid almost $400 for it, I found it on Amazon for $100.
He made it very clear that he would not be loaning it to me again. Funny, he still has a cordless hammer drill of mine and came over this morning to borrow bits...
People are funny. :P
-
Seems I paid 15 bucks for my meter couple years ago. Lol after shooting a couple chrony I started buying the cheap ones lol.
I found one for me for $13 on Amazon, it does not have to be perfect, just close enough to get basic readings.
-
Seems I paid 15 bucks for my meter couple years ago. Lol after shooting a couple chrony I started buying the cheap ones lol.
I found one for me for $13 on Amazon, it does not have to be perfect, just close enough to get basic readings.
I set mine 10ft out in front and off to the side of my target area with the sponge end facing toward me. My neighbors pretty used to hearing loud airguns.
-
Getting back to the moderator housing:
The overall length of the housing is 6.25 inches (160mm), the interior depth all the way back to the open portion is 4.96 inches (126mm), the depth to the beginning of the taper (interior) is 3.70 inches (94mm) which is the same as the baffle insert, the ID of the housing at the open end is .95 inches (24mm), the cap depth is .24 inches (6mm) and the o'ring cross section is .06 inches (1.5mm).
This leaves 1.29 inches (32.7mm) of open space unused before the baffle assembly, allowing for a large initial cavity to strip off the air impulse.
Going forward, I am planning on chucking up the barrel/moderator housing assembly and bore out the interior to 1 inch (25.4) all the way to the base. While I'm in there, I am going to tack on an extension to a countersink and taper off the muzzle end then polish the crown.
At that point, I want to see if subscriber will design another insert for me. I want to go a full 8 inches (203mm) from the base to an extended protrusion past the cap. That would be an extra 1.75 inches (44mm) of moderator.
Once the sound meter arrives, I will document sound levels with the housing as is, with the original baffle insert in place and from a few distances, indoors and outside. Then I will measure the sound levels with the lavender insert, do the boring, then once I get the housing set, I will try the extended version.
-
Seems I paid 15 bucks for my meter couple years ago. Lol after shooting a couple chrony I started buying the cheap ones lol.
I found one for me for $13 on Amazon, it does not have to be perfect, just close enough to get basic readings.
I set mine 10ft out in front and off to the side of my target area with the sponge end facing toward me. My neighbors pretty used to hearing loud airguns.
I was about 8" to the right side on a table at 10 feet, perfect shot! ;)
-
David,
I am impressed at how Mike's print failed through the material, rather than between layers. The color may not matter, except for the extended design. Even then, staining the part black on the outside should be easy; or warping it in camo tape, or something.
I am not sure if Mike can print 8" tall parts, but I know that Bob (Torquemaster) can.
If you have accurate measurements, pilot holes for the retention pins can be designed into the part. Or, just drilled later, using the casing holes as a jig. Just have to make sure that region of the part has thick walls, by placing the small end of a cone nearby.
8" long should be plenty to make the report friendly at stock Notos power levels.
-
Another member visited yesterday and I got a chance to handle one of these.. I was impressed with the solid feel of it.
-
Another member visited yesterday and I got a chance to handle one of these.. I was impressed with the solid feel of it.
For the price point, they are pretty impressive, and really shoot well too!
-
David,
I am impressed at how Mike's print failed through the material, rather than between layers. The color may not matter, except for the extended design. Even then, staining the part black on the outside should be easy; or warping it in camo tape, or something.
I am not sure if Mike can print 8" tall parts, but I know that Bob (Torquemaster) can.
If you have accurate measurements, pilot holes for the retention pins can be designed into the part. Or, just drilled later, using the casing holes as a jig. Just have to make sure that region of the part has thick walls, by placing the small end of a cone nearby.
8" long should be plenty to make the report friendly at stock Notos power levels.
I will jig/drill the moderator in situ when held under compression with an oring behind the insert after I have bored out the body to 1". I will locate the pin position for you (if you are willing to design another insert for me, thank you in advance) ;) so you can place a bolster at the pinning point.
-
David,
I am impressed at how Mike's print failed through the material, rather than between layers. The color may not matter, except for the extended design. Even then, staining the part black on the outside should be easy; or warping it in camo tape, or something.
I am not sure if Mike can print 8" tall parts, but I know that Bob (Torquemaster) can.
If you have accurate measurements, pilot holes for the retention pins can be designed into the part. Or, just drilled later, using the casing holes as a jig. Just have to make sure that region of the part has thick walls, by placing the small end of a cone nearby.
8" long should be plenty to make the report friendly at stock Notos power levels.
Lol vyper boast 260mm build height. 8” would be a lot of build time @ 100% infill on my little cheapie. The 4”&5” went longer than what cura had for build time by almost 2hrs. Also the purple filament is paintable. Matter of fact a member hear using one of my purple ldc that he painted haven’t heard of it peeling it’s paint off lol knock on wood lol.
-
David,
I am impressed at how Mike's print failed through the material, rather than between layers. The color may not matter, except for the extended design. Even then, staining the part black on the outside should be easy; or warping it in camo tape, or something.
I am not sure if Mike can print 8" tall parts, but I know that Bob (Torquemaster) can.
If you have accurate measurements, pilot holes for the retention pins can be designed into the part. Or, just drilled later, using the casing holes as a jig. Just have to make sure that region of the part has thick walls, by placing the small end of a cone nearby.
8" long should be plenty to make the report friendly at stock Notos power levels.
Lol vyper boast 260mm build height. 8” would be a lot of build time @ 100% infill on my little cheapie. The 4”&5” went longer than what cura had for build time by almost 2hrs. Also the purple filament is paintable. Matter of fact a member hear using one of my purple ldc that he painted haven’t heard of it peeling it’s paint off lol knock on wood lol.
Mike, does that mean you're in? ;)
I will also need another shorter one to return it to "stock" and I will pay-it-forward with the purple one that is still alive (RIP 4 baffle quite one) but will wait until I have the 8" insert in place to work on that one.
For everybody else: The moderator baffle insert is very easy to change out, you need a basic pin drive and a padded table to overhang the moderator over. Tappitiy-tappity and your done.
If anyone is interested in swapping out baffles, Mike has the file already and he is very affordable. I can walk you through the swap or sent you pictures showing fine detail.
-
Another member visited yesterday and I got a chance to handle one of these.. I was impressed with the solid feel of it.
For the price point, they are pretty impressive, and really shoot well too!
Ditto
Got to shoot mine side by side with another budget PCP yesterday, the Origin. Was a little breezy so never shot past
40 yards. At 30 and 40 the Origin was clearly more accurate BUT in the breeze shooting pellets 7ish grains heavier at
200ish FPS faster you might expect that. 20 yards and under would need a lot of groups and measuring to see a clear winner.
Didn't get the Notos for long range shooting anyhow.
The Notos I found needed more attention to shooting technique to get those nicer groups. Think its simply that the Notos
is so much shorter and lighter, it's easier to pull shots than with a heavier rifle. Trigger is still like it came from the box.
Sure smoothing the trigger will help immensely. Unless something goes wrong with it, it'll be perfect for what I bought it for
-
David,
I am impressed at how Mike's print failed through the material, rather than between layers. The color may not matter, except for the extended design. Even then, staining the part black on the outside should be easy; or warping it in camo tape, or something.
I am not sure if Mike can print 8" tall parts, but I know that Bob (Torquemaster) can.
If you have accurate measurements, pilot holes for the retention pins can be designed into the part. Or, just drilled later, using the casing holes as a jig. Just have to make sure that region of the part has thick walls, by placing the small end of a cone nearby.
8" long should be plenty to make the report friendly at stock Notos power levels.
Lol vyper boast 260mm build height. 8” would be a lot of build time @ 100% infill on my little cheapie. The 4”&5” went longer than what cura had for build time by almost 2hrs. Also the purple filament is paintable. Matter of fact a member hear using one of my purple ldc that he painted haven’t heard of it peeling it’s paint off lol knock on wood lol.
I 3d printed a target stand bracket cura 16 hours lol my vyper 20 hours so not abnormal but not ideal.
-
First new insert request ready for publication: 1 inch OD by 5 inches long
It is the height and OD of the part that takes so long to print, rather than 100% infill. I have made the wall thicknesses as thin as I dare, to increase internal volume, and to save print time and material; and to reduce weight. So, less than 100% infill may be asking for trouble.
The STL print file is attached below:
-
Here we go! ;D
Thank you Subscriber!
Ready, mike?
-
Here we go! ;D
Thank you Subscriber!
Ready, mike?
loaded for a early morning start.
-
Dave,
I am busy with the extended version. The bit where I need help is the location of the pin holes, so I can place the bosses to receive them in the correct location. I have assumed locations, based on all the info you have provided, but could be off. The images below show what I have.
The idea is to leave the pin holes blank, but to provide some external features so you can rotate the insert to the correct position before drilling the pin holes. One way is to leave dimples on the outside.
I assumed the pins are 2 mm in diameter, based on your images.
I have provided as many reference points to help you help me, as possible
Please comment so I can get this tricky aspect done.
Images below...
-
Dave,
Extended Notos insert below has an overall length of 8".
You will be glad to hear that I made the need to know the exact pin placement more or less irrelevant:
I placed a cone in such a position that the wall thickness completely absorbs the bosses for the pins. In other words, the rotational orientation of the tube does not matter when the pin holes are transfer drilled from the outer casing.
Just take a look at the dimensions provided and "pencil line image" where the bosses were, and see if there is enough material around where the pin holes would be in my CAD model. Then compare to your own measurements.
If I am off by several mm, then moving the cones to suit may be required. I am going to assume that the design shown below is a workable solution, so I am attaching the STL print file.
In fact, I am attaching two print files: One version has 8 expansion chambers and the other 7. This is in case the original first chamber ahead of the insert has been removed by making the casing hole deeper, and then using all that depth for the insert. You could have Mike print both, then compare for sound and grouping ability.
The 8 chamber version has the pellet travel a shorter distance before it is in the "shadow" of the second air stripper. This may, or may not matter in practice. If you had not broken the 4 chamber 3" insert, its performance against the 5 chamber insert would help predict the performance of the longer one.
The last image compares the 1 x 5" insert I posted a few hours ago, next to the 7 and 8 chamber extended insert versions, for comparison.
-
My concern about the following would be zero, if the insert cone and muzzle crown were perfectly concentric. If there is any doubt about it, then the modification suggested below might be smart. I could do it in CAD, but right now, I am speculating.
Question for Dave:
With your deeper casing cavity and longer insert, does the barrel muzzle contact or come close to the flat end of the insert cone? Image below might show what I am thinking.
If what amounts to the first air stripper contacts the muzzle or is less than 3/4" away I advise that you open the hole in the insert cone to almost match the barrel OD. Else, the air would be deflected, but have no where to go as it leaves the muzzle.
I think there is potential for that disturbed air to buffet the pellet; so rather stand off the first functional air stripper. If my suspicion is right, the second air stripper would become the first functional air stripper; if you remove the first air stripper from the small end of the insert. You can core it out; or cut it off.
If there an open air space between the end of the insert and the end of the cavity, near the muzzle, then having the first air stripper 1/2" away from the barrel muzzle should be OK.
-
So, rather than speculate and wait to provided an open end insert print file, I am anticipating that you will want that, Dave (if not, then no harm done).
So, the attached 7 and 8 chamber insert design STL files both have a 16 mm diameter hole on the end of the cone. Everything else is the same as the above insert versions.
-
I'm at work right now and will have 1 hour to measure and post the measurements.
I will try to read through the posts today and get "exact" pin locations, pin diameter and length.
Thank you and Mike for your continued diligence!
-
The last ones shown with very little chamfer will be preferred. I intend to bore out the walls to 1" all the way to the base where the barrel is mounted, I forget what I posted for depth.
I will remove the step and make the whole housing 1" ID.
I will make a jig for the pin holes from steel tubing so locations are repeatable.
-
Dave,
There is also the question of the shoulder location, as you will be leaving out the stock endcap. I moved the insert shoulder 6 mm to account for the cap, but do not have a complete picture of how things go together.
My second attempt seeks to make the exact pin hole location more forgiving.
Now, for unsolicited advice: Do not use a countersinking tool to recrown the barrel. It will raise a huge burr and here is the kicker; unless you indicate off the bore, using the OD of the barrel in a lathe may result in an eccentric crown. If a conical crown is eccentric the cone will lean over and be obviously asymmetrical.
Rather, use a very sharp cutting tool with a narrow tip, held in a stiff boring bar, and skim the muzzle flat; facing from the inside towards the outside. Then, use a brass ball lap of appropriate diameter to just break the edge on the lands and grooves.
Working into the 6.5" deep "can" won't allow you to orbit the lap very much. If you plunge the lap rather than orbit it, the lap will wear into a nub, that will enter the bore and round over the edge of the bore, rather than create a clean transition.
If the insert housing is removable, that would make the crowning job easier. But if it is glued, pressed or molded on, getting the housing back with integrity may be tricky. It may be pinned on, in which case removing it might be useful.
Be careful not to improve something that is not broken until it is...
I like to help, but do not want to facilitate and encourage Notos mutilation. Especially not due to either of us being in a hurry. My goal is to give you something you can use; even if you have to modify the insert. Not to encourage you to take a step that you will regret later.
I was wondering if keeping the insert socket stock and making just an extended insert for it is not the safe way to go? Increasing the insert diameter from 24 to 25.4 mm does not gain a lot of volume.
I would just add a more deliberate air stripper cone to the conical end, so you keep the primary blast chamber that is stock, as designed to work with the original parts.
Anyway, I don't want to ruin your fun. I also don't want to seem like I doubt your skill. I know nothing about it. It is just that I normally have very clear interface dimensions in mind before committing to a design. Also, know from experience that it often requires a few iterations to get 3D printed parts to fit just right. And we don't have much time for that, unfortunately.
-
I did a scale layout sketch to determine the ideal crown lapping ball diameter. This assumes a tangent at the caliber groove diameter, at 45 degrees.
McMaster brass screw https://www.mcmaster.com/92453A199/ (https://www.mcmaster.com/92453A199/) is shown with a scale 5.5 mm groove diameter and tangent lines at just over 50 degrees - "flatter" than 45, so OK; considering the ball will wear a little during the crowning job.
Smaller screw: https://www.mcmaster.com/92453A153/ (https://www.mcmaster.com/92453A153/) produces a less than 45 degree tangent, at 42.7 degrees. I would not go smaller than this screw head size, although the head OD can be reduced as that does not contact the crowning job.
The problem is screw stem (or extension) clearance to enable orbiting while lapping. Unless you remove the LDC housing from the barrel.
-
I want to take the hammer out and not sure of one thing. Is it safe to remove this bolt with the cylinder under pressure?
-
Are these guns really loud enough to require an after market silencing system?
-
Are these guns really loud enough to require an after market silencing system?
Require, no in my opinion, but individual preferences and circumstances vary. Besides though, tinkering can be fun for it's own sake.
-
Are these guns really loud enough to require an after market silencing system?
Require, no in my opinion, but individual preferences and circumstances vary. Besides though, tinkering can be fun for it's own sake.
Fair enough... I get the tinkering thing.
-
And my rural property becoming less rural quickly, is making me quite interested in the quiet aspect. And yeah, tinkering is fun! :D
-
Subscriber, it's a PGT live pilot crowning tool, I didn't post it that way because I was...
lazy
-
Dave,
There is also the question of the shoulder location, as you will be leaving out the stock endcap. I moved the insert shoulder 6 mm to account for the cap, but do not have a complete picture of how things go together.
My second attempt seeks to make the exact pin hole location more forgiving.
Now, for unsolicited advice: Do not use a countersinking tool to recrown the barrel. It will raise a huge burr and here is the kicker; unless you indicate off the bore, using the OD of the barrel in a lathe may result in an eccentric crown. If a conical crown is eccentric the cone will lean over and be obviously asymmetrical.
Rather, use a very sharp cutting tool with a narrow tip, held in a stiff boring bar, and skim the muzzle flat; facing from the inside towards the outside. Then, use a brass ball lap of appropriate diameter to just break the edge on the lands and grooves.
Working into the 6.5" deep "can" won't allow you to orbit the lap very much. If you plunge the lap rather than orbit it, the lap will wear into a nub, that will enter the bore and round over the edge of the bore, rather than create a clean transition.
If the insert housing is removable, that would make the crowning job easier. But if it is glued, pressed or molded on, getting the housing back with integrity may be tricky. It may be pinned on, in which case removing it might be useful.
Be careful not to improve something that is not broken until it is...
I like to help, but do not want to facilitate and encourage Notos mutilation. Especially not due to either of us being in a hurry. My goal is to give you something you can use; even if you have to modify the insert. Not to encourage you to take a step that you will regret later.
I was wondering if keeping the insert socket stock and making just an extended insert for it is not the safe way to go? Increasing the insert diameter from 24 to 25.4 mm does not gain a lot of volume.
I would just add a more deliberate air stripper cone to the conical end, so you keep the primary blast chamber that is stock, as designed to work with the original parts.
Anyway, I don't want to ruin your fun. I also don't want to seem like I doubt your skill. I know nothing about it. It is just that I normally have very clear interface dimensions in mind before committing to a design. Also, know from experience that it often requires a few iterations to get 3D printed parts to fit just right. And we don't have much time for that, unfortunately.
Printed parts are easily sanded to fit, the 1" ID and 5" depth gives anybody that wants to play with designs a generic starting point.
-
Sounds OK on both points, Dave.
Carry on.
-
anyone planning to put a drop block and carbon fiber bottle on the notos? 8)
-
have a 8 chamber on the plate at 5:30am. new spool of black petg.
-
Are these guns really loud enough to require an after market silencing system? Fair enough... I get the tinkering thing.
Some of y’all”s tinkering is too advanced for this old man..lol….after a day of shooting 2 stock PCP’s yesterday….convinced me nobody gives a hoot….lol…from now on I think Im leaving new purchases OEM….good luck
-
have a 8 chamber on the plate at 5:30am. new spool of black petg.
You da' man, Mike!
-
Are these guns really loud enough to require an after market silencing system? Fair enough... I get the tinkering thing.
I have 2 Franken-Chasers, it's ALL about the tinkering!
Some of y’all”s tinkering is too advanced for this old man..lol….after a day of shooting 2 stock PCP’s yesterday….convinced me nobody gives a hoot….lol…from now on I think Im leaving new purchases OEM….good luck
-
58% 9hrs! lol
-
58% 9hrs! lol
:o
-
58% 9hrs! lol
I check my STL files with Cura to see if there are any problems before passing on the designs to others. Very occasionally there is something that gets misinterpreted, such the inside bore of an LDC being full of material recently :)
Anyway, I cringe when I see how many hours the prints are predicted to take.
-
58% 9hrs! lol
I check my STL files with Cura to see if there are any problems before passing on the designs to others. Very occasionally there is something that gets misinterpreted, such the inside bore of an LDC being full of material recently :)
Anyway, I cringe when I see how many hours the prints are predicted to take.
Buy a 3d printer and have the full experience. I had a part say 16 hours that took 20.
-
58% 9hrs! lol
I check my STL files with Cura to see if there are any problems before passing on the designs to others. Very occasionally there is something that gets misinterpreted, such the inside bore of an LDC being full of material recently :)
Anyway, I cringe when I see how many hours the prints are predicted to take.
do you have a printer listed in cura? seems you need one listed to get a time after slicing.
-
do you have a printer listed in cura? seems you need one listed to get a time after slicing.
A very good point, Mike. I have Creality Ender-3 selected, but that may not be what you are using.
My primary purpose is to look at the layers to see that nothing has been corrupted. That happens so rarely that I might be tempted to drop this step. On the other hand, if you are 8 hours into a print, only to find that the projectile path is blocked in some section, you and your customer are going to be miffed; and rightly so. And I am talking about something that does not appear in my original 3D CAD solid model, but was misunderstood somewhere in the conversion
for printing process.
So, spending a few minutes to check for trouble is the least I can do, to not waste your time, materials and attention. Some of my more complex designs take longer to design that they do to print. So, 5 minutes on top of that is cheap insurance. The one you are printing for Dave now was much faster than that, but still took several hours to design.
-
do you have a printer listed in cura? seems you need one listed to get a time after slicing.
A very good point, Mike. I have Creality Ender-3 selected, but that may not be what you are using.
My primary purpose is to look at the layers to see that nothing has been corrupted. That happens so rarely that I might be tempted to drop this step. On the other hand, if you are 8 hours into a print, only to find that the projectile path is blocked in some section, you and your customer are going to be miffed; and rightly so. And I am talking about something that does not appear in my original 3D CAD solid model, but was misunderstood somewhere in the conversion
for printing process.
So, spending a few minutes to check for trouble is the least I can do, to not waste your time, materials and attention. Some of my more complex designs take longer to design that they do to print. So, 5 minutes on top of that is cheap insurance. The one you are printing for Dave now was much faster than that, but still took several hours to design.
I greatly appreciate your work on this project!
-
Airgun Archery Fun has magazines too I believe they will work according to Wes
https://airgunarcheryfun.ca/pp750-magazine-22-cal-new-design-8-shots/
its been 10 days since i placed an order from Wes, and i still have not seen the item and it looks like 3 more days......thats about the same time frame as receiving a custom mag from Darko (Carm) in Croatia.
his mags are perfect in my opinion and from owning many different types.
-
Airgun Archery Fun has magazines too I believe they will work according to Wes
https://airgunarcheryfun.ca/pp750-magazine-22-cal-new-design-8-shots/
its been 10 days since i placed an order from Wes, and i still have not seen the item and it looks like 3 more days......thats about the same time frame as receiving a custom mag from Darko (Carm) in Croatia.
his mags are perfect in my opinion and from owning many different types.
It took me way longer to get my CARM mags than any order from Wes, but I am also in Maine. Maybe it's different for other places. That being said, the CARM mags are better having tried both.
-
I greatly appreciate your work on this project!
I hope it measures up to your expectations.
The funny thing is that it is easier to make a loud airgun tolerable, than a tolerable airgun near silent. Anyway, I predict something along the lines of your stock Notos going from around 87 dB to around 77... Of course, it all depends on where and how you measure it. For me, it is more important to reduce the snap in the sound, so it is less "ear catching", than absolute loudness.
Going below 75 dB is very hard, especially when people place their meter a foot in front of the muzzle, or near their target. "Trap-slap" can be louder than the muzzle report, so the target should be far away, if possible. What you (and your neighbor) hear, or think you hear matters more than any dB meter reading.
-
I greatly appreciate your work on this project!
I hope it measures up to your expectations.
The funny thing is that it is easier to make a loud airgun tolerable, than a tolerable airgun near silent. Anyway, I predict something along the lines of your stock Notos going from around 87 dB to around 77... Of course, it all depends on where and how you measure it. For me, it is more important to reduce the snap in the sound, so it is less "ear catching", than absolute loudness.
Going below 75 dB is very hard, especially when people place their meter a foot in front of the muzzle, or near their target. "Trap-slap" can be louder than the muzzle report, so the target should be far away, if possible. What you (and your neighbor) hear, or think you hear matters more than any dB meter reading.
True that but sound measurement is the only quantifiable method we have to determine pressure levels.
What my neighbors hear is unimportant to me and them as well. This is solely an exercise in proof of concept that may open a closed eye or two and get a few excited about tinkering/modifying their guns.
-
I greatly appreciate your work on this project!
I hope it measures up to your expectations.
The funny thing is that it is easier to make a loud airgun tolerable, than a tolerable airgun near silent. Anyway, I predict something along the lines of your stock Notos going from around 87 dB to around 77... Of course, it all depends on where and how you measure it. For me, it is more important to reduce the snap in the sound, so it is less "ear catching", than absolute loudness.
Going below 75 dB is very hard, especially when people place their meter a foot in front of the muzzle, or near their target. "Trap-slap" can be louder than the muzzle report, so the target should be far away, if possible. What you (and your neighbor) hear, or think you hear matters more than any dB meter reading.
True that but sound measurement is the only quantifiable method we have to determine pressure levels.
What my neighbors hear is unimportant to me and them as well. This is solely an exercise in proof of concept that may open a closed eye or two and get a few excited about tinkering/modifying their guns.
This is exactly why I messed with the baffles and venting the shroud on my Fortitude and did the same to a Maximus after adding the Fortitude shroud to it... not to quiet it but, for the experience.
-
Dave,
The problem with getting an objective measure for sound is that unless you do it industry standard with a calibrated meter intended for muzzle report, you and your mates are using what amounts to an "elastic tape measure". Rather than argue about absolute values, the thing to do with cheapo meters and apps is to compare before and after. The change is less likely to be way off that the absolute measure. Assuming your meter and setup do not "peg" or clip.
If before and after measure the same, chances are that you have reached the max level the meter can capture. Or the measurement period is way off. So, if you hear a clear drop that seems about half as loud, that is a 6 to 10 dB reduction. If you can just tell a difference by ear, it is only 3 dB. More to the point, if you hear a clear difference and the meter reads the same, the meter is wrong, or used incorrectly.
When you get that far, shoot with the "can" empty, then the original insert, then the alternatives; and so on. I predict that the original insert is taking off 10 dB from the empty can.
The closer your meter is palced, and the more directly in front of the muzzle, the more only a few inches in relative placement and a small change in angle will skew the readings.
Sound pressure drops off with the inverse square of the distance. So the same reading at 3 feet will be four times louder than at 6 foot.
Sound is very directional, so being level with the muzzle to the side is much quieter than being in front of the muzzle. Being at normal cheeckweld position is a lot quieter than level with the muzzle.
What ever you do, be sure to repeat it. Also, you have to be able to call a reading BS if it is. For instance, if you fired a .223 centerfire rifle and your meter gave the same reading as you airgun, the readings are decidedly suspect. Just because a reading is reported by an expensive instrument does not make it real. There are several other requirements that have to be met. Even more so for a cheap meter.
Judging airgun report is a bit like judging music. A meter may tell you how loud it is at a certain distance, but only human ears and minds can decide if the sound is pleasing or not. In other words, once you are no longer concerned with "hearing safe", muzzle report improvements are very subjective. Nothing wrong with that. It is like preferring the feel and balance of one rifle over another. Subjective, but valid.
-
15hrs32mins!
-
Looks good, Mike
-
Looks good, Mike
2.467oz think ya got a hit!
-
15hrs32mins!
GOOD GOLLY!
Good job, Mike, that is going to be a beast!!
-
Dave,
The problem with getting an objective measure for sound is that unless you do it industry standard with a calibrated meter intended for muzzle report, you and your mates are using what amounts to an "elastic tape measure". Rather than argue about absolute values, the thing to do with cheapo meters and apps is to compare before and after. The change is less likely to be way off that the absolute measure. Assuming your meter and setup do not "peg" or clip.
If before and after measure the same, chances are that you have reached the max level the meter can capture. Or the measurement period is way off. So, if you hear a clear drop that seems about half as loud, that is a 6 to 10 dB reduction. If you can just tell a difference by ear, it is only 3 dB. More to the point, if you hear a clear difference and the meter reads the same, the meter is wrong, or used incorrectly.
When you get that far, shoot with the "can" empty, then the original insert, then the alternatives; and so on. I predict that the original insert is taking off 10 dB from the empty can.
The closer your meter is palced, and the more directly in front of the muzzle, the more only a few inches in relative placement and a small change in angle will skew the readings.
Sound pressure drops off with the inverse square of the distance. So the same reading at 3 feet will be four times louder than at 6 foot.
Sound is very directional, so being level with the muzzle to the side is much quieter than being in front of the muzzle. Being at normal cheeckweld position is a lot quieter than level with the muzzle.
What ever you do, be sure to repeat it. Also, you have to be able to call a reading BS if it is. For instance, if you fired a .223 centerfire rifle and your meter gave the same reading as you airgun, the readings are decidedly suspect. Just because a reading is reported by an expensive instrument does not make it real. There are several other requirements that have to be met. Even more so for a cheap meter.
Judging airgun report is a bit like judging music. A meter may tell you how loud it is at a certain distance, but only human ears and minds can decide if the sound is pleasing or not. In other words, once you are no longer concerned with "hearing safe", muzzle report improvements are very subjective. Nothing wrong with that. It is like preferring the feel and balance of one rifle over another. Subjective, but valid.
Yup, and its going to be FUN!!!! ;D
-
For your amusement; just to show you how involved some design jobs can get, here is part of a custom design I did for a friend. It features dual crossing Tesla Valves. The video was captured while sweeping up through layers in Cura:
https://youtu.be/plzLAkw1daU
-
How would they work in suppressors?
-
Dave,
Obviously there needs to be a straight open path, wide enough for the pellet to travel down. To make the concept work for an LDC, you need to rotate your image, and align the black arrows to the flow path that the pellet would travel down. Then see the red flow path as that part of the airflow that is redirected back on itself, via a curved path.
To help make sense of this, I have taken your image, rotated it, then doubled it up to make it symmetrical about the central pellet path. Other than the radii of the curved paths being different, I think you can see the similarities compared to the section of my insert design. Then, if you take my manipulated version of your Tesla Valve image, and place a copy at 90 degrees around the pellet path, you end up with my dual crossing air paths that redirect flow back upstream.
The rest of the open space contained in the casing between the Tesla Valve "tubes" functions as simple expansion volume.
These designs also have to be configured for 3D printing, without "supports" being turned on in the "slicer" software. You cannot remove printing support structures from closed 3D printed parts, so the design has to be self supporting during printing. My designs can often only be printed in one orientation as a result. Unfortunately that orientation makes printing them very slow...
The second image show the last cone of the design I did for you. It has what might be called and open Tesla Valve geometry: air flowing along the conical outer wall is redirected backwards by the central air stripper. Air flowing down the middle, scooped off by the central airstripper runs into the air that flowed along the wall. The difference is that the flow in an open cone design is less organized than if it has walls to constrain the flow.
Why not always place such flow directing walls in LDC designs? The crossing Tesla Valve duct design shown in the images below has an outer diameter of 48 mm, to fit inside a 2" OD tube. Scaling that down to a 1" or less ID makes the curves very tight, and uses up a lot of expansion volume with plastic material to create the curves and the extra walls.
How effective is the Tesla Valve insert compared to conventional cones? People that sell such designs will tell you that they are superior. As for my designs; the parts are being 3D printed right now. We may have results in a month. When I say "we"; I am not making the parts, nor testing the systems. I simply designed the parts for someone like you, who are keen to experiment. In this case, they suggested I look at STO products that use their "gas diode" interpretation of the Tesla Valve.
Yes, I learn from what works along the way, by doing many designs for many people. Your design is based on what I learned from the insert development exercise, covered in the thread about "taming the bark of an Avenger". It answers the question; what is simple, light, compact and effective?
-
Below are images of a single plane Tesla Valve Module. It is less "leaky" than the cross-plane design above ("leaks" into the peripheral expansion space - not a problem). However, it requires that the center air stripper have extra supports for printing, as that resides in the tube that is connected to the side panels, but "floats" in the middle. Hence there are 6 permanent peg-like support "vanes" in the design under each of those air strippers, to enable printing with supports turned off.
Those who are familiar with STO designs might notice some similarities :)
-
all this supressor stuff, I think I've ventured into another Dimension :D
-
all this supressor stuff, I think I've ventured into another Dimension :D
Thats the secret of the Tesla valve, time actually goes backwards before the sound is made, therefore you dont hear anything because it hasn't happed yet! ;D ;)
-
OK, I'm going to put a Micro Hadron collider on mine, it will make a black hole to absorb the sound and time jump point to put the pellet faster than light..... ;D ;D ;D ;) 8)
-
Okay, I know what happens when you break the speed of sound, what happens when you break the speed of light?
-
Okay, I know what happens when you break the speed of sound, what happens when you break the speed of light?
Uuuuuh, "you miss"..... :-\ :o :o :o and then cause an interstellar war because the pellet traveled 200 light years and hit the windshield of an aliens spaceship,
Note to self; buy interstellar liability and Hazard insurance.... ;D ;D ;D
-
HyperWarp Drive.
-
Can you beam me up now, Scotty?
-
I think EDgun Leshiy might have figured it out 8) ;D
https://youtu.be/yksJ4YJIbwU?t=54
-
Okay, I know what happens when you break the speed of sound, what happens when you break the speed of light?
Uuuuuh, "you miss"..... :-\ :o :o :o and then cause an interstellar war because the pellet traveled 200 light years and hit the windshield of an aliens spaceship,
Note to self; buy interstellar liability and Hazard insurance.... ;D ;D ;D
Progressive insisted that I use the "snapshot" device on my Tesla Valve, they said that the space-time continuum policy is backdated 14 parsecs. :-\
-
My latest mods are being done by this tuner!
-
My latest mods are being done by this tuner!
Wait! BAKER air guns? :o
-
Maybe, in one of his many personas. 8)
-
I got the two new moderator inserts today and since I had 1-1/2 hours clear before I had to be off so I pulled out the dB meter, moved it 30 feet away inside the shop, opened the door and proceeded to take some noise samples.
First up was the original red split insert. 5 shots, 87, 86, 87, 88, 86 decibels, 87dB average.
Second was the lilac insert, 5 baffles, it knocked off 2 dB with the 5 shot sample of 80, 81, 80, 82, 80dB with an average of 81dB.
Third was the long Lilac insert but first, I had some work to do.
I promptly too took the Notos apart, chucked up the barrel/moderator housing and bored the housing out to 1". A few items to note, the housing interior was not centered on the barrel, the housing was molded out of round and the cap no longer seals tightly as it is now too small.
It took four passes to open up the housing to 1", there was a lot of chatter due to the soft material but it worked fine, I just had to take smaller cuts. I cut the housing down all the way to the interior base then pushed the insert into the housing to get a dry fit.
I got it about 2/3 in and the insert would no longer budge.
I went and got one of my 18" gauntlet leather gloves, put it over the end of the housing after mounting the barrel in the gun again and pulled the trigger!
POP! Out it came into the glove with no harm. I had to sand down the insert to make it fit but it was too long and I had to cut off the taper to fit it all the way into the housing.
The 5 shot sample was 78, 77, 78, 78, 79dB. This was noticeably quieter with much less 'snap' when fired. I even took a few more samples and shot an open housing shot to make sure the meter was working and yes, that seems to be the number.
Finally, I got the 8" black insert fitted by cutting off the last taper and sanding it down smooth. I then marked and drilled the pin holes, mounted it up and shot this jaw-dropping string of 5 samples, 66, 67, 64, 68, 69dB.
This a quieter than a finger snap. I also measured the dB at my ears using the long insert and I got 70dB on both sides which was interesting since the sound at 30 feet was 67dB on average.
Thanks to Mike and Subscriber for their work providing the designs and the printing. I am leaving the 8" insert in the gun since my POI didn't change from an empty housing and am still able to make 1/4" groups at 10m and this thing is just mouse-fart quiet! ;D
If anybody wants the 4" insert to play with, let me know, Ill be glad to send it to you to try.
-
Dave,
It is difficult to predict how well custom insert designs will work, but what you measured is better than I expected. Providing your ears agree with the meter's relative readings, I am very satisfied with the results.
You seem to have confirmed that my "plume style" baffles are good at taking the snap out of the report. I came up with the idea to "fan" the baffle cone angles while increasing their spacing, and it first worked out well for the Avenger. If there is casing or shroud length to work with, that style seems like a benchmark to compare my other designs against, for any given application.
Here is the latest happy customer benefiting from the same "technology" on his Avenger: https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=196584.msg156434566#msg156434566 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=196584.msg156434566#msg156434566)
-
Thanks for testing these out!
If I understand it right, the lilac 5-baffle is 3.7" long, same length as the stock red one, and knocked off 6dB over the stock one? You said "2 dB", but the sample numbers are 6dB different.
The 5" required the housing modification, but after that, it is all internal, and got it down to 9dB lower than stock.
And the 8", requires the same modifications, 3" of it is external, and knocked ~20dB off stock??? Yowza.
Now I'm curious what a 3.7" +2" or +3" (or more) external could do -- to avoid hogging out the housing.
-
Now I'm curious what a 3.7" +2" or +3" (or more) external could do -- to avoid hogging out the housing.
I expect that reducing the insert OD to fit in the stock 24 mm ID "can", while copying the rest of the 8" insert detail, would increase the sound to no more than (25.4 x 25.4) / (24 x 24) * 5/8 .
I think it is worth a try...
-
For those of you that want to experience (nearly) Dave's results (above), without boring out your casing ID above the stock 24 mm, I have designed 24 mm shank versions of the 7 and 8 chamber inserts. The STL print files are attached below.
You will need to drill pin holes to retain the insert, but I am sure Dave will talk you though it.
I am not sure if Dave's results were with the 7 or 8 chamber version, so I include both. I would go with what he tested; or both.
-
Thanks for testing these out!
If I understand it right, the lilac 5-baffle is 3.7" long, same length as the stock red one, and knocked off 6dB over the stock one? You said "2 dB", but the sample numbers are 6dB different.
The 5" required the housing modification, but after that, it is all internal, and got it down to 9dB lower than stock.
And the 8", requires the same modifications, 3" of it is external, and knocked ~20dB off stock??? Yowza.
Now I'm curious what a 3.7" +2" or +3" (or more) external could do -- to avoid hogging out the housing.
Yes, 3.7" long on the stock replacement insert.
I was FLYNG through my post, I am sure other mistakes were made to my data collection, I lust scribbled numbers on the back of an adhesive label as I went.
I think what you propose is likely the best drop-fit idea out there as the extra baffles would be external and take advantage of the plume style shape. One think I would definitely change would be to locate and print the pin holes, even if they were mostly filled with print hairs, I had no time to to face my hole starts and I wandered on one hole, the other ran straight but in the end, both pins are good to go and holding the insert sealed to the housing.
If precise hole locations could be located for Subscriber, I am willing to be that he could add them to the print.
-
Lol glad to see the inserts made it.
-
I think what you propose is likely the best drop-fit idea out there as the extra baffles would be external and take advantage of the plume style shape. One think I would definitely change would be to locate and print the pin holes, even if they were mostly filled with print hairs, I had no time to to face my hole starts and I wandered on one hole, the other ran straight but in the end, both pins are good to go and holding the insert sealed to the housing.
If precise hole locations could be located for Subscriber, I am willing to be that he could add them to the print.
If I didn't have to drill the holes for the pins, I'd definately be interested in trying one! I just don't have enough confidence in my own abilities, let alone a precision tool (I have a hand drill) to ensure they go straight through and don't damage the factory housing!
-
Lol glad to see the inserts made it.
Looks so good that I didn't sand or paint the part sticking out. Really nice job, Mike!
-
Lol glad to see the inserts made it.
Looks so good that I didn't sand or paint the part sticking out. Really nice job, Mike!
Thanks David! Not too shabby for a $200 refurbished printer.
-
If precise hole locations could be located for Subscriber, I am willing to be that he could add them to the print.
Yes please, Dave. That would make the replacement inserts a lot more valuable.
It just occurred to me that I need to reduce the length of the conical end, as you bored out your casing deeper, when you made it wider. So, I need to shorten the insert design length to fit into the stock casing.
To make things simple, I could add a slightly tight ring to the OD near breech and shoulder ends of my insert design, so that is what centers the insert in the casing, rather than the cone. This way, there is no risk of the insert being too long and fighting the pin holes. All that would need to be managed is the distance from the front shoulder to the pin location.
Someone needs to provide an accurate measurement of the stock casing ID, as I am betting you measured the stock insert OD at 24 mm. I am guessing that the casing ID is a bit larger than that.
-
Not too shabby for a $200 refurbished printer.
And Mike, if I remember correctly you have only been 3D printing for a few months? So, your prints are all the more impressive, considering you had to start your journey with a blown mother board. Something that would put off a lot of people.
-
Dave,
Which version of the extended insert did you test? 7 or 8 chamber?
-
If precise hole locations could be located for Subscriber, I am willing to be that he could add them to the print.
Yes please, Dave. That would make the replacement inserts a lot more valuable.
It just occurred to me that I need to reduce the length of the conical end, as you bored out your casing deeper, when you made it wider. So, I need to shorten the insert design length to fit into the stock casing.
To make things simple, I could add a slightly tight ring to the OD near breech and shoulder ends of my insert design, so that is what centers the insert in the casing, rather than the cone. This way, there is no risk of the insert being too long and fighting the pin holes. All that would need to be managed is the distance from the front shoulder to the pin location.
Someone needs to provide an accurate measurement of the stock casing ID, as I am betting you measured the stock insert OD at 24 mm. I am guessing that the casing ID is a bit larger than that.
Knowing that the housing is oblong, an actual measurement was impossible but the tightest portion was what I posted.
Someone else will have to do the precision measurements for the hole locations though as I have bored out to 1".
I do think there will be a market for these as a drop in.
-
Dave,
Which version of the extended insert did you test? 7 or 8 chamber?
LoL!
I could not see inside so this is a Mike question.
-
Mike,
Was this the 7 or 8 chamber design that you printed for Dave?
Thanks
58% 9hrs! lol
-
Mike,
Was this the 7 or 8 chamber design that you printed for Dave?
Thanks
58% 9hrs! lol
Was the 8 chamber.
-
Not too shabby for a $200 refurbished printer.
And Mike, if I remember correctly you have only been 3D printing for a few months? So, your prints are all the more impressive, considering you had to start your journey with a blown mother board. Something that would put off a lot of people.
Blown motherboard and hotbed had to be replaced.
-
Blown motherboard and hotbed had to be replaced.
Yikes! Almost as if someone really did not want you to get into 3D printing :)
-
The images below show my best effort at extended inserts (similar to what Dave tested) designed to fit the unmodified Notos "can".
I scaled the retention pin positions from the images in this thread, and applied a human trait: When there is no clear reason to choose fractional dimensions, most designers default to full units. So, the pin to pin spacing seems to land 8 mm away from the centerline, and thus 16 mm center to center, placed in the 32 mm OD casing. I did something similar for the pin placement from the casing shoulder.
You may need to sand down the rings I added to the insert OD to ensure it is not loose in the casing. The rings are 0.002" taller than the surrounding OD, so not very aggressive.
The pin holes should print close to 2 mm in diameter. You may need to chase them, but decide that after fitting the insert OD to the casing ID.
The STL print files are attached, below. One for the long snout version; the other for the short snout.
Both inserts will have a cavity ahead of them that Umarex designed as primary expansion chamber, ahead of the muzzle. The difference between the inserts is how far the pellet has to travel in that primary chamber before it is shielded from turbulence by the first air stripper. Will there be any meaningful grouping ability difference between the two versions? I hope someone prints either or both to find out.
This may be my last contribution on this topic for 5 weeks. I am going walkabout in the Southern hemisphere, imminently. I need to do my taxes and a few other things before I am ready.
-
Wonderful! Thanks again Subscriber!
-
Those look pretty amazing, I may have to invest in some PETG and see if I can print one! Thank you for sharing these files!
-
There is something horribly wrong!
My trap has become unbelievably loud after I attached that insert! Its all I can hear, snap... BANG!
Didn't even know the pellet trap even made noise until I put that sucker in that housing! ;)
-
Printed up a short snout yesterday the pin holes came out really good.
-
Good to hear, how is the pin alignment when inserted into the housing? I ordered some PETG, it should arrive tomorrow, so I'm hoping to do a print this weekend.
-
Good to hear, how is the pin alignment when inserted into the housing? I ordered some PETG, it should arrive tomorrow, so I'm hoping to do a print this weekend.
lol good question I can't answer. don't own a Notos. You can see through the holes good enough to line up for drilling.
-
Good to hear, how is the pin alignment when inserted into the housing? I ordered some PETG, it should arrive tomorrow, so I'm hoping to do a print this weekend.
lol good question I can't answer. don't own a Notos. You can see through the holes good enough to line up for drilling.
Well, do you plan on getting a Notos? If not, was that printed for someone specific to test fit? If not, I'd be happy yo assist!
-
Good to hear, how is the pin alignment when inserted into the housing? I ordered some PETG, it should arrive tomorrow, so I'm hoping to do a print this weekend.
lol good question I can't answer. don't own a Notos. You can see through the holes good enough to line up for drilling.
Well, do you plan on getting a Notos? If not, was that printed for someone specific to test fit? If not, I'd be happy yo assist!
PM me and i will give you the details.
-
Thanks for doing that, Mike
-
Thanks for doing that, Mike
One last question before you go walkabout:
What about making a version that is open until it hits the step in the housing?
The pins still hold it, the large space right off the barrel end would allow for greater expansion.
Thoughts.... :o
-
Dave,
What you asked for above, is what I have attempted to provide:
The lengths of the latest inserts are shorter than what you have installed. They are short, like the original insert on the small end (unless I screwed up). So, there is already a large primary expansion space ahead of the first cone.
The attached image shows the first replacement insert I designed for you, on top. You trimmed its end cone to get it to fit, so for the stock casing, I moved the cone shoulders forward a bit on these latest inserts. They locate on the shoulder at the front of the casing, and by means of the pins, but lack the conical alignment at the muzzle end due to an intentional gap there. Hence, me bumping up the insert OD to take out slop between insert OD and casing ID.
No need for the o-ring with these insert either.
Otherwise, if you could be more specific about what you want I should be able to do it.
-
In case I got the pin hole locations so wrong that someone might prefer to drill their own, the STL files attached to this reply are for the above long and short snout inserts, but without pin holes:
-
Dave,
The lengths of the latest inserts are shorter than what you have installed. They are short, like the original insert on the small end (unless I screwed up). So, there is already a large primary expansion space ahead of the first cone.
The attached image shows the first replacement insert I designed for you, on top. You trimmed its end cone to get it to fit, so for the stock casing, I moved the cone shoulders forward a bit on these latest inserts. They locate on the shoulder at the front of the casing, and by means of the pins, but lack the conical alignment at the muzzle end due to an intentional gap there. Hence, me bumping up the insert OD to take out slop between insert OD and casing ID.
No need for the o-ring with these insert either.
Otherwise, if you could be more specific about what you want I should be able to do it.
Ahhhh! You already located off the shoulder! Nevermind ::)
-
The images below show my best effort at extended inserts (similar to what Dave tested) designed to fit the unmodified Notos "can".
I scaled the retention pin positions from the images in this thread, and applied a human trait: When there is no clear reason to choose fractional dimensions, most designers default to full units. So, the pin to pin spacing seems to land 8 mm away from the centerline, and thus 16 mm center to center, placed in the 32 mm OD casing. I did something similar for the pin placement from the casing shoulder.
Instead of Subscriber making an educated guess on hole locations, could Firewalker put the pins halfway into the stock cap holes, and measure their CTC distance between the heads? And also measure/estimate the distance from the centerline of pin holes in the cap (when installed) to the front edge of the shroud?
Similarly, measured depths and angles of what is inside the shroud (or what's left) would help as well.
-
The images below show my best effort at extended inserts (similar to what Dave tested) designed to fit the unmodified Notos "can".
I scaled the retention pin positions from the images in this thread, and applied a human trait: When there is no clear reason to choose fractional dimensions, most designers default to full units. So, the pin to pin spacing seems to land 8 mm away from the centerline, and thus 16 mm center to center, placed in the 32 mm OD casing. I did something similar for the pin placement from the casing shoulder.
Instead of Subscriber making an educated guess on hole locations, could Firewalker put the pins halfway into the stock cap holes, and measure their CTC distance between the heads? And also measure/estimate the distance from the centerline of pin holes in the cap (when installed) to the front edge of the shroud?
Similarly, measured depths and angles of what is inside the shroud (or what's left) would help as well.
I'm sure HE could but anybody could. ;)
I have no shoulders to measure any longer, I am 1" all the way to the barrel.
-
In case I got the pin hole locations so wrong that someone might prefer to drill their own, the STL files attached to this reply are for the above long and short snout inserts, but without pin holes:
Excellent! I doubt you are off by much, but this allows for correction if needed, thanks!
-
The images below show my best effort at extended inserts (similar to what Dave tested) designed to fit the unmodified Notos "can".
I scaled the retention pin positions from the images in this thread, and applied a human trait: When there is no clear reason to choose fractional dimensions, most designers default to full units. So, the pin to pin spacing seems to land 8 mm away from the centerline, and thus 16 mm center to center, placed in the 32 mm OD casing. I did something similar for the pin placement from the casing shoulder.
Instead of Subscriber making an educated guess on hole locations, could Firewalker put the pins halfway into the stock cap holes, and measure their CTC distance between the heads? And also measure/estimate the distance from the centerline of pin holes in the cap (when installed) to the front edge of the shroud?
Similarly, measured depths and angles of what is inside the shroud (or what's left) would help as well.
I'm sure HE could but anybody could. ;)
I have no shoulders to measure any longer, I am 1" all the way to the barrel.
I guess I misunderstood, I figured the cap was still intact and measurable. I'll look at your pix again.
-
Dave,
Bob means the front of the casing, at the large shoulder on the insert. Not the one inside the casing that you removed.
Details required:
1. Pin diameter where unknurled
2. Distance between pins measured over their OD (to subtract OD and find center to center). As Bob suggested; tap the pins out just far enough to get a caliper beak on them.
3. Distance of pin center or OD to casing front face. Be specific, please.
Thanks
-
I have a confession to make; the pin hole spacing in the designs above is not what I calculated. The hole center to center in the above parts are at 18 mm. My most recent calculation from the images was that they were 16 mm apart.
I know it seems silly to upload another file version with the holes at 16 mm spacing, but I have no idea if, or when someone will provide me with actual measured data. So, the best I can do is to meet my own intent. Then you guys can determine which is closer. Either should let you sight through the holes in the casing, to chase the holes so the pins will fit.
Hence the attached versions below with the pin holes spaced at 16 mm. Yes, the pin holes just break through into the air space at two points. Should not make any difference, as that is what Dave would have with his hand drilled pin holes. Unless he or someone else provides measurements to the contrary...
-
Paul (Rat Sniper) kindly took careful measurements off his Notos and I have incorporated those into my CAD models. Note the RS pin spacing designation in the attached STL files, below.
My 16 mm center to center pin spacing was slightly less than 0.5 mm off. Paul's center to center distance no longer has the pins break into the air space inside.
-
I have a confession to make also, while measuring the parts for Peter, I completely overlooked a significant part of this puzzle, the end cap! It's designed with two tabs that fit into twc cutouts in the outer housing, so the round design Peter has been working on will not be a direct, drop-in fit without modification! I have sent Peter the measuments relavant to the tabs...
-
Paul, the problem you are seeing may be an illusion:
Based on the images posted by David, including the one below, that ring pops out easily. My designs all assume the ring is popped out, and that the insert fits into the casing directly without either the ring or the encap with its air stripper.
See part "B" in the image below. That is a separate part. Dave did bore away plastic at the shoulder deeper into the casing, that the conical end of the stock insert bears against. You do not have to do that.
The central bore in part "B" is smaller than the casing ID deeper in. So I am not going to attempt a design that fits through that smaller hole. If you removed your stock red insert, you would have to remove that ring part anyway. Try it...
It is up to you to decide what you will or won't do, but I think you are mistaken about the degree of to which removing that part constitutes a permanent modification. I suggest that you ask David (Firewalker) about this directly, as he has taken the part out.
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=206735.0;attach=429208;image)
-
NICE! Thanks Paul! ;D
Yes, the oring is for a compressed fit for the end cap, its not a seal as the hole in the cap lets lout air freely. The cap itself is tabbed but is a loos fit inside the housing, not even close to a snap fit. The tabs are for assembly so the pins find the holes without guidance, push the cap in place, drive the pins, done!
With the first generation of inserts in, the cap was used to hold it all inside the housing, with the 8" version, the pins alone hold the insert in and the cap sit this dance out.
-
Paul, the problem you are seeing may be an illusion:
Based on the images posted by David, including the one below, that ring pops out easily. My designs all assume the ring is popped out, and that the insert fits into the casing directly without either the ring or the encap with its air stripper.
See part "B" in the image below. That is a separate part. Dave did bore away plastic at the shoulder deeper into the casing, that the conical end of the stock insert bears against. You do not have to do that.
The central bore in part "B" is smaller than the casing ID deeper in. So I am not going to attempt a design that fits through that smaller hole. If you removed your stock red insert, you would have to remove that ring part anyway. Try it...
It is up to you to decide what you will or won't do, but I think you are mistaken about the degree of to which removing that part constitutes a permanent modification. I suggest that you ask David (Firewalker) about this directly, as he has taken the part out.
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=206735.0;attach=429208;image)
Yea, I see the error in my assumption! Funny thing, I don't have a Part B! Not at the end of the housing anyway. After pulling the end cap and the insert I see those tabs are just for alignment purposes and have nothing to do with the pins or retention within the housing! Early morning brain fog and lack of sleep is taking it's toll!
-
Paul,
As long as the average ID of the casing is near 24 mm, we are in business. Would you please measure that in a few places around the casing to see.
Thanks
-
It’s not perfectly round! Across the tabs it 24.39mm, 90 degrees from that point is 24.18mm, and at 45 degrees from the tabs it’s 24.11mm! Got to love exact manufacturing specs, but then again, this is not Space X! ;D
-
The insert should go in, although the casing ID may taper, getting smaller as you go in, as an artifact of injection molding. Then sand the insert smaller until it goes in all the way to the shoulder. Without making it sloppy. If that happens, wrap some tape around it. Or @@@ some narrow tape strips.
-
The insert should go in, although the casing ID may taper, getting smaller as you go in, as an artifact of injection molding. Then sand the insert smaller until it goes in all the way to the shoulder. Without making it sloppy. If that happens, wrap some tape around it. Or @@@ some narrow tape strips.
Will do! Thanks! It should arrive on Monday, so I'll post the results on fitment and performance. Thanks again for all the R&D you have put into this project! :D
-
Part B is the shroud alignment insert and isn't related to the housing or barrel, it fits between the receiver and the shroud tube.
-
@50% 6h12m short snout RS
-
It’s not perfectly round! Across the tabs it 24.39mm, 90 degrees from that point is 24.18mm, and at 45 degrees from the tabs it’s 24.11mm! Got to love exact manufacturing specs, but then again, this is not Space X! ;D
Also, runout (wobble) was present as the mount to the barrel was not concentric with the bore.
I bored the housing to fix this and to open the space for a full depth insert, making it easier to clean the insert when the time comes.
-
Folks,
Bluesman (Dino) took detailed measurements of his Notos. They vary enough from Dave and Paul's that I recommend you measure your own Notos before deciding which print file to try.
Dino's pin spacing is real close to 16 mm, so he should try the print files from here: https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=206735.msg156435698#msg156435698 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=206735.msg156435698#msg156435698)
Dino measured the casing ID at several depths and clocking positions. Just as Dave and Paul observed, Dino's casing ID is not very round, but surprisingly it is neither parallel nor a straight taper. The average ID at the front, 50 and 95 mm depths are 24.5; 24.3 and 24.3 mm, with quite a bit of variation "around the clock". My CAD models have the OD at 24.2, so it might contact at the out of round bits, but is smaller than the average values. Will have to ponder this one...
-
For reference this is what I measured on my Notos. It occurred to me that maybe the universal pin hole shape would be a kind of oval (picture two offset 2.0mm circles) to allow variation in pin CTC spacing. Precision dimensions especially for inside holes are hard to 3D print accurately so maybe in the end it doesn't matter so much.... not sure.
Another thought, maybe the OD of the insert slightly smaller (e.g. 23.9mm) with a o-ring groove near each end to locate the device within the outer casing. Hopefully this description makes sense, I can't think of a good way to put it into words ::)
Pin to pin, CTC 16.14mm
Front face to pin c/l 3.64mm
Pin diameter 2.0mm (non-knurled part)
Axis At front 50mm from front 95mm from front
0-180 24.39 24.28 24.32
90-270 24.63 24.39 24.30
45-225 24.52 24.21 24.32
135-315 24.50 24.30 24.24
0-180 = vertical
Dino
-
This all great info -- the lack of precision manufacturing of the casing is disturbing, and will affect barrel alignment with any baffles. So a bigger bore size may be needed... for starters.
I found a teardown elsewhere, where they removed the casing. Not pretty. It *appears* the casing is molded onto the barrel. The end of the barrel has circular grooves, and these grooves have snap-rings installed, then the casing is molded on, the snap rings embedded into the casing plastic during the process. Casing not reusable after destructive removal.
The barrel size OD is reported at 11.95mm-ish. If a baffle assembly were to (and able to) reach down to the barrel itself...
-
So, I took Bluesman's suggestions and have oval pin holes that span 16 to 16.5 mm on centers. The holes are sized 2.2 mm by 2.45 mm across the pin hole diameter, so they break through into the air space just a little.
If you need to chase the pin holes with a drill, having dust fall into the insert is not a great idea, so I added a little material to shroud the pin holes. See images below.
I also added ribs to both insert ODs that follow Bluesman's casing average dimension, above. The ribs should help tighten the insert fit. In the case of a too tight casing, the ribs should help you file or sand down a particular section of a rib that is making hard contact.
The STL print files are attached below.
-
If I had the pin hole position and spacing right from the start, I would have designed the cones to stay clear away from intersecting the airspace. But I am not messing with the cone layout now. Don't have time for that...
-
If I had the pin hole position and spacing right from the start, I would have designed the cones to stay clear away from intersecting the airspace. But I am not messing with the cone layout now. Don't have time for that...
You're willing to leave 0.1dB on the table? ;)
-
Dino, because you requested it:
A version of both inserts that has O-ring grooves, sized for this 22 x 1 mm O-ring, or similar: www.mcmaster.com/9262K621/ (http://www.mcmaster.com/9262K621/)
The groove depths are slightly different, so the O-ring effective ODs should approximate 24.3 and 24.5 mm respectively. There should be a little room for the o-rings to compress into the grooves because they should print slightly longer than 1 mm.
I placed the O-rings such that they are clear of the key cuts and pin holes near the "canister" shoulder; and opposite the baffle roots where the wall of the insert is thicker.
The pin hole size and placements are the same as the above "universal" version.
STL print files are attached below.
-
Peter, that's a work of art!
-
Very nice! I like the idea of the two o-rings for centering it in the housing!
-
Peter, that's a work of art!
You helped by providing objective information.
-
I like the idea of the two o-rings for centering it in the housing!
Changing O-rings to get the ideal fit is less work than sanding down ribs. I would use the softest O-ring available.
My only concern and it is not major, is that the insert walls are unsupported between O-rings. Now, for this low power application, and the ample primary expansion volume between muzzle and insert, I seriously doubt that the insert walls will fracture from over pressure. If they did, you would not be aware of it, until you removed the insert. And, unless such a fracture caused an air stripper cone to wonder off-center, there would likely be no consequence.
Grease the O-rings to ease insertion and extraction, should it take more than a little force to install. Try it without the O-rings first. Due to the ovality of the casing, there may be some interference already that will require additional force - or sanding/filing.
Let me know what improvements are required or would be nice, and I will address them when I get back: Take two inserts, and call me in a month :)
-
This all great info -- the lack of precision manufacturing of the casing is disturbing, and will affect barrel alignment with any baffles. So a bigger bore size may be needed... for starters.
I found a teardown elsewhere, where they removed the casing. Not pretty. It *appears* the casing is molded onto the barrel. The end of the barrel has circular grooves, and these grooves have snap-rings installed, then the casing is molded on, the snap rings embedded into the casing plastic during the process. Casing not reusable after destructive removal.
The barrel size OD is reported at 11.95mm-ish. If a baffle assembly were to (and able to) reach down to the barrel itself...
I saw that as well and tried to remove the C clips but my tools failed the task. Rather ingenious, I must say.
This is also why I bored out my housing. The bore is now concentric with the centerline of the housing allowing for the smaller opening in the insert Mike printed.
-
Well, after several failed attempts, I finally got the PETG to adhere to the base plate of the 3D Printer and it completed the print. 10 hours and 16 minutes later and it's done! Because it started out pretty sloppy, the crown of the extension needs to be cleaned and dressed, but otherwise, it turned out pretty good! Tomorrow after I cleaning it up, I'll add a couple o-rings and give it a test. I did test fit it without the o-fings and it appears the pin holes line up perfectly! Great job Peter!
-
NICE!!! ;D
-
Appreciate all the work and information in this thread!
I come from a powder burning world, but have a Notos on order and looking to pop my airgun "cherry".
Have the long snout stl going now on a 3D printer ... hope to figure this stuff out!
-
Short completed!
Now just need the Notos to arrive...
-
Mine too. 5 hours and 6 minutes, not bad at all. I realized after that I should have set the Exterior perimeters first option so it prints more accurately to design size. It came out 24.3mm on average, a nice snug without o-rings. One turn of tape and in it went. I don't have sound level measurements, all I can say is it's very nice with this design installed!
-
Outstanding!
-
Wow that’s a lot of time to print something.
-
Printing is a slow process, not the best for those with severe impatience disorder. :D
-
I don't know, that was half the time it took mine to print! Mine took 10 hours and 16 minutes! :o I must have a really slow printer!
-
That could be, but more likely your slicer settings are very conservative. You would need to experiment to see what you can do without giving up (too much) print quality.
-
My printer is the FLSUN QQS and I had chosen the Fine Setting. On the Normal setting it estimates just over 3 hours. When I choose fine with 100% fill it jumps to 11 hours and 35 minutes, but the actual print only tool 10 hours and 16 minutes.
I think Peter had recommended using 100% infill density, that's why I changed it.
-
100% infill with .15 layers took 13hours here.
I went conservative to handle the pressure of air exiting.
-
100% infill is a big time killer. I very rarely use it. For increased strength it's more effective to add perimeters rather than infill. For this print I used my standard settings, 0.2mm layers, 3 perimeters, 20% infill, 0.4mm nozzle. The outer wall will be solid on this print with these settings. I used the same settings on the moderator for my Raptor which outputs 3x the power of the Notos.
-
100% infill is a big time killer. I very rarely use it. For increased strength it's more effective to add perimeters rather than infill. For this print I used my standard settings, 0.2mm layers, 3 perimeters, 20% infill, 0.4mm nozzle. The outer wall will be solid on this print with these settings. I used the same settings on the moderator for my Raptor which outputs 3x the power of the Notos.
My layers were 0.1mm, I don't have a parameter for perimeters, but do for line width, would that be the same thing? My line width is 0.4mm. I also don't have a parameter for the nozzle, but the I believe it's 0.4mm.
What print temp and bed temp are you using?
-
In my experience on my printer, petg didn't print well at 0.1mm. This design does not have very fine details, in my opinion 0.1 is not necessary. I found it best to use 0.2mm for the first layer always, even if going finer on the other layers.
Sometimes it is called walls instead of perimeters. I'm not sure about line width, it could be the same thing. Change it to 1mm and check the slicer output. You'll be able to see if it is doing multiple perimeters. Which slicer do you use?
Somewhere in the slicer settings there must be a nozzle size. The slicer has to know it, and the number should be set to match the nozzle size you have. 0.4mm is the most common.
I use 60 bed, 240 nozzle. I don't trust my nozzle temp sensor though, it is probably not accurate. I set it based on how it feels pushing filament through by hand.
-
My printer is the FLSUN QQS and I had chosen the Fine Setting. On the Normal setting it estimates just over 3 hours. When I choose fine with 100% fill it jumps to 11 hours and 35 minutes, but the actual print only tool 10 hours and 16 minutes.
I think Peter had recommended using 100% infill density, that's why I changed it.
Paul, what slicer are you using? Ideally, you should have separate control over speed, layer height, infill density, etc, rather than using a pre-set mode that may be overkill in some areas.
This is not a complicated part, 0.20mm layers should be fine. Most of the structures are pretty thin, I doubt you'll see much time savings from using less than 100% infill, so personally I'd stay there. Print speed depends on what your printer and filament can handle before prints start getting "ugly" or "sloppy" looking -- I use 25 - 30 mm/s for clean looking petg prints.
By using the 0.10mm layers, you essentially doubled print time vs.using 0.20mm layers, that's why it took as long as it did. No harm though, it should look great, work fine, and may be a bit stronger for the extra time spent.
-
In my experience on my printer, petg didn't print well at 0.1mm. This design does not have very fine details, in my opinion 0.1 is not necessary. I found it best to use 0.2mm for the first layer always, even if going finer on the other layers.
Sometimes it is called walls instead of perimeters. I'm not sure about line width, it could be the same thing. Change it to 1mm and check the slicer output. You'll be able to see if it is doing multiple perimeters. Which slicer do you use?
Somewhere in the slicer settings there must be a nozzle size. The slicer has to know it, and the number should be set to match the nozzle size you have. 0.4mm is the most common.
I use 60 bed, 240 nozzle. I don't trust my nozzle temp sensor though, it is probably not accurate. I set it based on how it feels pushing filament through by hand.
Using your parameters and gluestick on the base, I have a new print started. So far so good! Hopefully, this one will look cleaner than the last one!
My printer is the FLSUN QQS and I had chosen the Fine Setting. On the Normal setting it estimates just over 3 hours. When I choose fine with 100% fill it jumps to 11 hours and 35 minutes, but the actual print only tool 10 hours and 16 minutes.
I think Peter had recommended using 100% infill density, that's why I changed it.
Paul, what slicer are you using? Ideally, you should have separate control over speed, layer height, infill density, etc, rather than using a pre-set mode that may be overkill in some areas.
This is not a complicated part, 0.20mm layers should be fine. Most of the structures are pretty thin, I doubt you'll see much time savings from using less than 100% infill, so personally I'd stay there. Print speed depends on what your printer and filament can handle before prints start getting "ugly" or "sloppy" looking -- I use 25 - 30 mm/s for clean looking petg prints.
By using the 0.10mm layers, you essentially doubled print time vs.using 0.20mm layers, that's why it took as long as it did. No harm though, it should look great, work fine, and may be a bit stronger for the extra time spent.
I'm using Cura 5.3. I did change the layers to 0.2mm and changed the in-fill to 25%. So far, so good! I guess we'll see how strong it is when it's finished, hopefully, it won't blow the end out of it!
-
The long nose baffle extension completed in just over 3 hours, much faster than the short nosed baffle extension I printed the other day. This one was printed mith 0.2mm layers rather than the 0.1mm layers and with a 25% in-fill instead of 100%. It still feels very sturdy and actually sounds a tad quieter than than the short nosed extension. The end and crown came out much nicer on this one using the gluestick on the base, as recommended by Bluesman!
Below are pictures of the two prints, the first 2 are today's print, the face and crown look much nicer on the latest one, but I think the body of the first looks nicer, but that probably has to do with the 0.1mm layers. I did lightly sand them with 220 grit sandpaper to eliminate the sheen.
-
Paul, didya, hear that?
Nope, neither did I!
Good job on that print!
-
Oh I have a 3d printer it’s called Buck Rail:)
-
...
Sometimes it is called walls instead of perimeters. I'm not sure about line width, it could be the same thing. Change it to 1mm and check the slicer output. You'll be able to see if it is doing multiple perimeters. Which slicer do you use?
...
Paul, what slicer are you using? Ideally, you should have separate control over speed, layer height, infill density, etc, rather than using a pre-set mode that may be overkill in some areas.
This is not a complicated part, 0.20mm layers should be fine. Most of the structures are pretty thin, I doubt you'll see much time savings from using less than 100% infill, so personally I'd stay there. Print speed depends on what your printer and filament can handle before prints start getting "ugly" or "sloppy" looking -- I use 25 - 30 mm/s for clean looking petg prints.
By using the 0.10mm layers, you essentially doubled print time vs.using 0.20mm layers, that's why it took as long as it did. No harm though, it should look great, work fine, and may be a bit stronger for the extra time spent.
I'm using Cura 5.3. I did change the layers to 0.2mm and changed the in-fill to 25%. So far, so good! I guess we'll see how strong it is when it's finished, hopefully, it won't blow the end out of it!
Ok great. The only other setting I'd check is wall thickness -- it's usually in mm, and also in # of lines thick. The exterior outer wall should be printed solid. If you step through the layers in preview mode, with it set to show "Line type" you should be able to see how that area got handled.
I tested two of Subscriber's 4" plume for the Avenger models with exterior walls of 0.5mm and 1.0mm (don't try this at home, kids!) to find out how thin is too thin. At almost 30FPE with my 22 Avenger. I only used them for a handful of shots, and expected shrapnel from at least the 0.5mm...but NOPE! They both survived!
So even if your external walls aren't completely solid, you're probably fine...the Notos is even lower powered...just know/remember it's not printed as intended to be printed. I'd only expect a blowout if somehow barrel and moderator are not aligned properly. Sounds like yours are doing well, so congrats and carry on!
-
Thanks Bob! Yep, took it out last night after installing it and shot a couple shots into the woods behind the house. The only sound was the tap of the hammeer on the valve poppet! I had to check the fill pressure because it sounded so weak, but no, it had a full 250 BAR filll! I then shot a couple rounds at my target, the pellet hitting the backstop was way louder than any sound coming from the gun! It's scary how quiet it is now... The perfect stealthy pest carbine! ;D
-
Thanks Bob! Yep, took it out last night after installing it and shot a couple shots into the woods behind the house. The only sound was the tap of the hammeer on the valve poppet! I had to check the fill pressure because it sounded so weak, but no, it had a full 250 BAR filll! I then shot a couple rounds at my target, the pellet hitting the backstop was way louder than any sound coming from the gun! It's scary how quiet it is now... The perfect stealthy pest carbine! ;D
YOURS is broken too? Those backstops just keep getting LOUDER and LOUDER!
-
From Notos, to No-tones ;D
-
From Notos, to No-tones ;D
LOL! That's for sure!
YOURS is broken too? Those backstops just keep getting LOUDER and LOUDER!
Maybe I need rubber pellets!!! :o ;D
-
100% infill is a big time killer. I very rarely use it. For increased strength it's more effective to add perimeters rather than infill. For this print I used my standard settings, 0.2mm layers, 3 perimeters, 20% infill, 0.4mm nozzle. The outer wall will be solid on this print with these settings. I used the same settings on the moderator for my Raptor which outputs 3x the power of the Notos.
If you use Cura as the slicer, would you be willing to share your print settings?
I am just curious to learn what other settings you may have in hopes of making prints more efficient.
Here at the settings in Cura that I think would match your recommendations on infill and perimeters:
version = 4
name = petg-test
definition = fdmprinter
printspeed = 50
infill speed = 50
wall speed = 25
[values]
adhesion_type = brim
material_bed_temperature = 71
material_bed_temperature_layer_0 = 71
retraction_combing = infill
[metadata]
type = quality_changes
quality_type = draft
intent_category = default
position = 0
setting_version = 20
[values]
brim_width = 5
cool_fan_full_layer = 4
cool_fan_speed = 50
infill_sparse_density = 20
material_final_print_temperature = 200.0
material_print_temperature = 235
speed_layer_0 = 20
speed_print = 50
speed_print_layer_0 = 20
speed_travel = 130.0
wall_line_count = 3
infill_pattern = grid
-
100% infill is a big time killer. I very rarely use it. For increased strength it's more effective to add perimeters rather than infill. For this print I used my standard settings, 0.2mm layers, 3 perimeters, 20% infill, 0.4mm nozzle. The outer wall will be solid on this print with these settings. I used the same settings on the moderator for my Raptor which outputs 3x the power of the Notos.
If you use Cura as the slicer, would you be willing to share your print settings?
I am just curious to learn what other settings you may have in hopes of making prints more efficient.
Here at the settings in Cura that I think would match your recommendations on infill and perimeters:
version = 4
name = petg-test
definition = fdmprinter
printspeed = 50
infill speed = 50
wall speed = 25
[values]
adhesion_type = brim
material_bed_temperature = 71
material_bed_temperature_layer_0 = 71
retraction_combing = infill
[metadata]
type = quality_changes
quality_type = draft
intent_category = default
position = 0
setting_version = 20
[values]
brim_width = 5
cool_fan_full_layer = 4
cool_fan_speed = 50
infill_sparse_density = 20
material_final_print_temperature = 200.0
material_print_temperature = 235
speed_layer_0 = 20
speed_print = 50
speed_print_layer_0 = 20
speed_travel = 130.0
wall_line_count = 3
infill_pattern = grid
Is there a way I can export those values from Cura? If so, I'd be happy to share them.
-
100% infill is a big time killer. I very rarely use it. For increased strength it's more effective to add perimeters rather than infill. For this print I used my standard settings, 0.2mm layers, 3 perimeters, 20% infill, 0.4mm nozzle. The outer wall will be solid on this print with these settings. I used the same settings on the moderator for my Raptor which outputs 3x the power of the Notos.
If you use Cura as the slicer, would you be willing to share your print settings?
I am just curious to learn what other settings you may have in hopes of making prints more efficient.
I used Prusaslicer. I exported the config file if you want to look at it, but don't obsess too much.
-
100% infill is a big time killer. I very rarely use it. For increased strength it's more effective to add perimeters rather than infill. For this print I used my standard settings, 0.2mm layers, 3 perimeters, 20% infill, 0.4mm nozzle. The outer wall will be solid on this print with these settings. I used the same settings on the moderator for my Raptor which outputs 3x the power of the Notos.
If you use Cura as the slicer, would you be willing to share your print settings?
I am just curious to learn what other settings you may have in hopes of making prints more efficient.
Here at the settings in Cura that I think would match your recommendations on infill and perimeters:
version = 4
name = petg-test
definition = fdmprinter
printspeed = 50
infill speed = 50
wall speed = 25
[values]
adhesion_type = brim
material_bed_temperature = 71
material_bed_temperature_layer_0 = 71
retraction_combing = infill
[metadata]
type = quality_changes
quality_type = draft
intent_category = default
position = 0
setting_version = 20
[values]
brim_width = 5
cool_fan_full_layer = 4
cool_fan_speed = 50
infill_sparse_density = 20
material_final_print_temperature = 200.0
material_print_temperature = 235
speed_layer_0 = 20
speed_print = 50
speed_print_layer_0 = 20
speed_travel = 130.0
wall_line_count = 3
infill_pattern = grid
Is there a way I can export those values from Cura? If so, I'd be happy to share them.
There is!
-Preferences->Profiles (or "Manage Profiles from the Profile dropdown in Print Settings)
-Select the profile to view/edit
-Click hamburger menu on top right and select "Export"
-Open the "*****.curaprofile" file with notepad or text editor of choice to copy text or might be able to just paste file
-
Seeing the weight, power level, precision, and price of these, the Notos has caught my eye as the backyard plinker I've been looking for...well...I'd prefer .177 -- so that mod may happen if I ever get one...
Ordered one in late March from one of our favorite sponsors -- out of stock but the ETA was about a month...fair enough...
Been watching the ETA go up and down, mostly down...until today. Wondering if I'll get one soon, or be twiddling my thumbs two more months :(
-
PA pushed back till June now….I didnt want one anyway..lol
-
Just put a sling on mine (like I use it so much lol)
-
Hehe... I did the same Mike, added a single point sling connector as I do believe the Notos will get some walk about time in the fall. ;D
-
Okay guys, I know most of this thread has been about making the notos quieter but can the LDC be removed completely. I want to be able to carry it in the holster that I use to carry my 1377.
-
Okay guys, I know most of this thread has been about making the notos quieter but can the LDC be removed completely. I want to be able to carry it in the holster that I use to carry my 1377.
Yes, but it is a non-reversible operation. You won't be able to put it back on later. I saw pictures of how it'll look like in one of the Notos threads.
-
Thanks Dino.
-
Hehe... I did the same Mike, added a single point sling connector as I do believe the Notos will get some walk about time in the fall. ;D
I used one of these :
Retail Sign Systems 2 Point Rifle... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08D3BL4SX?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08D3BL4SX?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share)
The tube has a saber tactical 34mm picatinny adapter and I just put a key ring on the lowest hole on the stock and it works. I had to trim the sling a bit
-
Hehe... I did the same Mike, added a single point sling connector as I do believe the Notos will get some walk about time in the fall. ;D
Very slick.
I have a single/two point sling for my .223 PB :-)
Kinda works like the Safari sling
-
Seeing the weight, power level, precision, and price of these, the Notos has caught my eye as the backyard plinker I've been looking for...well...I'd prefer .177 -- so that mod may happen if I ever get one...
Ordered one in late March from one of our favorite sponsors -- out of stock but the ETA was about a month...fair enough...
Been watching the ETA go up and down, mostly down...until today. Wondering if I'll get one soon, or be twiddling my thumbs two more months :(
Woot, they knocked almost a month off, so...I'm almost back to where I started from in March...30ish days and counting.
Anyone want to place bets on when it will actually show up on my doorstep? ;)
-
Bought 4 Carm mags with a red insert, 12 shot, hoping to get 2 mags worth through the Notos without having to add air.
4 mags for $99 delivered? YES! :D
-
Back in stock so I picked one up.
-
Mike,
You should say where; or post a link... :)
-
Mike,
You should say where; or post a link... :)
I got an email from Pyramyd saying they were in stock.
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/umarex-notos-pcp-carbine?m=5515
-
airgun depot also.
-
Tempting...
Thanks
-
Price went up a hair
-
Not much for tactical type guns but this one has caught my eye a couple times.
-
Not much for tactical type guns but this one has caught my eye a couple times.
If it means anything I haven’t sold mine yet:) you should get one :)
-
LOL... I'm trying to figure out the best way to reduce what I have, I don't need another. And if I were I think it would be another Avenger .25 for Betty Lou.
-
For those of you shooting over 10-20 yards are they holding zero with that plastic picatinny rail?
-
For those of you shooting over 10-20 yards are they holding zero with that plastic picatinny rail?
Mines never moved
-
Got notified mine is shipping, yay! Ordered way back in March!
Also saw MidwayUSA had some as well.
Here's the updated roller coaster of Pyramyd Notos ETA ...
-
Not much for tactical type guns but this one has caught my eye a couple times.
DONT DO IT, BILL!
They are ugly, heavy, too long and very loud, plus they only shoot custom ammo and cant hit the inside of a barn!
-
LOL... yeah, I think I can resist.
-
What makes it tactical? I don't even know what that means anymore.
-
It has that Military weapon kind of look. It's just not my thing.
-
It has that Military weapon kind of look. It's just not my thing.
Like a Garand or Mosin ;)
-
Shhhhhhh..... They Might start calling it the "A-R" Word and try to ban it........ because it just looks vicious :o :o :o
-
It has that Military weapon kind of look. It's just not my thing.
-
It has that Military weapon kind of look. It's just not my thing.
Ha Ha ... If it looked like those I would be more interested.
-
It has that Military weapon kind of look. It's just not my thing.
Ha Ha ... If it looked like those I would be more interested.
Pfffftttt! If it were military, it would look like this!
-
It has that Military weapon kind of look. It's just not my thing.
Ha Ha ... If it looked like those I would be more interested.
Pfffftttt! If it were military, it would look like this!
I would not be surprised if someone came out with an airgun like that.
-
It has that Military weapon kind of look. It's just not my thing.
Ha Ha ... If it looked like those I would be more interested.
Pfffftttt! If it were military, it would look like this!
I would not be surprised if someone came out with an airgun like that.
There was a WW2 training airgun that looked pretty similar.
-
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/springfield-armory-m1a-underlever-pellet-rifle-wood-stock?m=5169 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/springfield-armory-m1a-underlever-pellet-rifle-wood-stock?m=5169)
-
I started to modify my Notos, I knew I would do this at some time when I bought the little bugger, so here's what I'm doing
It's getting a 500cc Carbon fiber bottle.... :o ;)
I'm installing a drop block and a 4500 psi bottle with a 1500psi regulator, it has a 3000 psi pop off disk installed so over pressure shouldn't be a concern, it should get about 250-300 shots per fill, there will be a bit of drilling out the block for plenum space, but it should be ok,
I bought the drop block from Amazon as a aftermarket drop block valve for FX and Daystate, it was cheap, I removed the fittings on it and found they were the right size for the bottle and gun, the gun cylinder thread size is 16mm x 1mm, the length of the gun adapter is just about 4 mm to long so I will need to tap the block a little and use a Dowty washer if needed, the bottle side of the block fits a Paintball regulator, but it needs a O-ring on the neck of the regulator since the inside of the block was drilled for the thread size, here's what I've got so far.
I robbed the Bottle and reg from one of my Gauntlets.... ;)
https://www.amazon.com/airmega-Airforce-Regulator-Paintball-Accessories/dp/B0BLHFKY4R/ref=sr_1_39?crid=VQW3091XUZ9R&keywords=pcp+airgun+accessories&qid=1685120035&sprefix=%2Caps%2C168&sr=8-39 (https://www.amazon.com/airmega-Airforce-Regulator-Paintball-Accessories/dp/B0BLHFKY4R/ref=sr_1_39?crid=VQW3091XUZ9R&keywords=pcp+airgun+accessories&qid=1685120035&sprefix=%2Caps%2C168&sr=8-39)
-
Wow, like it was made for it!
-
Would it be possible to get confirmation on the pins for the moderator?
The pins go top to bottom / bottom to top, correct? (not left to right).
Here are pictures of the top and bottom. The bottom has the little circle between the pin holes.
Not sure which way to hit the pins.
-
Justin,
TorqueMaster just got a new Notos. I believe that his pin orientation is perpendicular to most of the other ones seen. Will prompt him to comment directly.
-
On mine the knurled ends were at the top. Doesn't seem they have a standard though, some people's guns have the pins left-right rather than vertical. Try tapping the pin out a little, if you see the knurling keep going, if not spin 180.
A nail set works really well for driving the pins.
-
Thank you both. I'll try to give it a go on Monday and report back with pictures.
-
On mine the knurled ends were at the top. Doesn't seem they have a standard though, some people's guns have the pins left-right rather than vertical. Try tapping the pin out a little, if you see the knurling keep going, if not spin 180.
...
Mine are like this as well, vertical pins, knurls at the top, drove them out from the underside.
-
It has that Military weapon kind of look. It's just not my thing.
Bill, my shooting crew in ATL love the wood and steel stuff as well. Respect.
I guess since an AR was my first PB I gravitate...
So my Notos arrived and here's what I have to share. Most of you already know but 3YO at Christmas...you know...
Only four H2 screws to attach the AR style but-stock. Minus point Umarex for not including an H2 Allen wrench. I have a set so no worries.
I am 6'-3" and I was able to get a comfortable length of pull with the stock extended all the way out so I probably won't change it (looks like a standard mil-spec buffer tube). It took 8 patches for the barrel to be cleaned to my standards. The SBR now complete I glanced at the non-military spare SvBony and put the tactical Vortex Venom RD on the AG in like 1 minute as the entire shroud breech top is a rail (tactical thing).
Since I blew my GX Pump money on the Notos I put in some work 235 pumps empty to 3500ish psi (5 sets).
Finally time for the CPHP 14.3's 25 shots at 753+/-1fps. 26 fell off the regulator ending the mag at 739,730 and 720. A solid 18fpe for squirrels and bunnies.
I will see if the GTO's can group or how heavy I can go but leaning towards 17.5 NSA's and call it good.
I'm still learning the Cookoo clock magazine thing but loading was easy. I did crumple 1 pellet and found that bumping that first pellet to the same depth as the other 6 makes the lever cycle better. I'm going to see if I can get some CLP on the lever without taking apart the gun, otherwise it would get polished and lubed.
I'm going to order 2 Notos mags as I have OCD and will be recharging air after 3 mags (21 shots at ES=2). So it's 95 pumps from 1800 to 3650psi. I can do that until I order the compressor.
This will be the stomping around the woods seeking squirrel AG so next is on the scale. With the RD and a full mag of 14.3's she's 4.15 pounds. I can tote that all day. I see two loop-holes in the stock so I will be adapting a way to one-point sling (yes more military style stuff).
I got the RD on paper with a quarter size group at 10M to start and was dancing cans and smiling as the Koolaide settled into my system and I began to understand the Notos train.
Cheers to the many seniors who recommended this AG!
-
printed up a ABS ldc yeserday.
-
printed up a ABS ldc yeserday.
Sweet. How does it work?
-
printed up a ABS ldc yeserday.
Sooo pretty! My wife’s favorite color, if I had that be installed on mine she’d probably try and take it from me!!! :o
-
printed up a ABS ldc yeserday.
Sweet. How does it work?
Not a clue my gun don’t get here till tue!
-
printed up a ABS ldc yeserday.
Sooo pretty! My wife’s favorite color, if I had that be installed on mine she’d probably try and take it from me!!! :o
But so smelly when printing! Lol.
-
What I really want to know is how you 3D printed those o-ring on it??? :P
-
What I really want to know is how you 3D printed those o-ring on it??? :P
That’s Top Secret if I told ya I’d have to kill myself lol!
-
Appreciate all the help!
As promised - reporting back.
Bottom to top like others. Applied some dielectric grease to the additional o-rings on the new insert.
The Notos was very quiet stock, but now it is "dang" near silent. The hammer is too loud ;D ;)
-
My Notos in play.
-
My Notos in play.
Is the orange part a single shot tray?
If yes, where did you find the STL file?
-
My Notos in play.
Is the orange part a single shot tray?
If yes, where did you find the STL file?
Ss tray bought 4thlab@ eBay.
-
So anyone hazard to guess how to turn the reg down? Looks really close to a pp750.
-
I just saw a vid earlier today and now can't find it ,but the jist was drain bottle unscrews by hand need bent needle nose to unscrew the reg from tube lots of threads and two orings has a screw and nut on end of reg loosen nut a little then he said he was turning it up he turned it 1/4 turn ccw retighten nut lube orings and put it back together.
-
Well just found the YT link for reg adjustment
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOtPuBkYX80 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOtPuBkYX80)
-
Well just found the YT link for reg adjustment
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOtPuBkYX80 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOtPuBkYX80)
Thanks x3baddad! That’s pretty darn easy.
-
Those knurled pins on the moderator aren't the easiest to knock out with a punch and hammer, I wound up using my Drill press with the punch placed in the drill chuck, and pressing the pins out and reinserting them when I was done, much easier, I'm gonna leave the stock baffle in, it's more than quiet enough for me. ;)
-
I really like the fact the gun is light….but Im having a heck of a time choosing what optics to go with..my best scopes are too heavy for the gun (IMHO) and my lightest are too cheap optically….at the moment Im waiting on a reflex and picatinny riser to try….the BSA RD is adequate for short range and indoors….but out doors I got 30 yards….good luck
I got a 1976 Japanese Tasco 4x32 thats as new and clear optically…may put it on there…lol
-
I really like the fact the gun is light….but Im having a heck of a time choosing what optics to go with..my best scopes are too heavy for the gun (IMHO) and my lightest are too cheap optically….at the moment Im waiting on a reflex and picatinny riser to try….the BSA RD is adequate for short range and indoors….but out doors I got 30 yards….good luck
Using a Athlon talos 3x12x40 on mine.
-
I really like the fact the gun is light….but Im having a heck of a time choosing what optics to go with..my best scopes are too heavy for the gun (IMHO) and my lightest are too cheap optically….at the moment Im waiting on a reflex and picatinny riser to try….the BSA RD is adequate for short range and indoors….but out doors I got 30 yards….good luck
I got a 1976 Japanese Tasco 4x32 thats as new and clear optically…may put it on there…lol
Have you tried the 3X12 Bugbuster? Very nice on the Notos
-
I dont have a Bug buster in my stash….I really like this little reflex (have 3)and since I just shoot paper and cans its good to 30yard…I sat it on top of a PA riser…I thought the open riser lent itself to the Notos…my tallest rings still make for a neck ache,,(old neck)without using riser …
I will check my other guns to see if I can do a swap when/if I get tired of the Reflex…or buy whats recommended….good luck
Wish my 1358 was this light..lol
Good Read, and I been thinking scoutmouting an edge…
https://hardairmagazine.com/buyers-guides/umarex-notos-scope-mounting-scout-rifle-style/
-
I really like the fact the gun is light….but Im having a heck of a time choosing what optics to go with..my best scopes are too heavy for the gun (IMHO) and my lightest are too cheap optically….at the moment Im waiting on a reflex and picatinny riser to try….the BSA RD is adequate for short range and indoors….but out doors I got 30 yards….good luck
I got a 1976 Japanese Tasco 4x32 thats as new and clear optically…may put it on there…lol
I had to remove the Vortex Venom RD and my "don't judge me" SvBony $19 4x32 is on there now but I think 6-10X is my sweet spot....
-
I really like the fact the gun is light….but Im having a heck of a time choosing what optics to go with..my best scopes are too heavy for the gun (IMHO) and my lightest are too cheap optically….at the moment Im waiting on a reflex and picatinny riser to try….the BSA RD is adequate for short range and indoors….but out doors I got 30 yards….good luck
I got a 1976 Japanese Tasco 4x32 thats as new and clear optically…may put it on there…lol
I had to remove the Vortex Venom RD and my "don't judge me" SvBony $19 4x32 is on there now but I think 6-10X is my sweet spot....
I can do pellet on pellet comfortably at 6x out to 25 yards for as long as the reticle is very thin (Leupold or Clearidge fine) or with a floating center dot (SWFA's MOA-Quad).
I prefer SWFA's MOA-Quad reticle over their Mil-Quad one.
They're not the clearest though, and I did sell 2 of mine for they both were fixed 20x :P Just too much and with a terrible eyebox.
I'd probably get their 10x or even their 6x next time 👍
-
I really like the fact the gun is light….but Im having a heck of a time choosing what optics to go with..my best scopes are too heavy for the gun (IMHO) and my lightest are too cheap optically….at the moment Im waiting on a reflex and picatinny riser to try….the BSA RD is adequate for short range and indoors….but out doors I got 30 yards….good luck
I got a 1976 Japanese Tasco 4x32 thats as new and clear optically…may put it on there…lol
I had to remove the Vortex Venom RD and my "don't judge me" SvBony $19 4x32 is on there now but I think 6-10X is my sweet spot....
I can do pellet on pellet comfortably at 6x out to 25 yards for as long as the reticle is very thin (Leupold or Clearidge fine) or with a floating center dot (SWFA's MOA-Quad).
I prefer SWFA's MOA-Quad reticle over their Mil-Quad one.
They're not the clearest though, and I did sell 2 of mine for they both were fixed 20x :P Just too much and with a terrible eyebox.
I'd probably get their 10x or even their 6x next time 👍
As clumsy neanderthal as I am I'd be afraid to take a Leupold into the woods..lol.
My CP3-9X32 on the jumper lives at 6X, I just need to click over to 7X to see the holes in the paper.
The Accushot on the AEA30 has not moved from 9X. I just turn the sidewheel until I can see.
-
I really like the fact the gun is light….but Im having a heck of a time choosing what optics to go with..my best scopes are too heavy for the gun (IMHO) and my lightest are too cheap optically….at the moment Im waiting on a reflex and picatinny riser to try….the BSA RD is adequate for short range and indoors….but out doors I got 30 yards….good luck
I got a 1976 Japanese Tasco 4x32 thats as new and clear optically…may put it on there…lol
I had to remove the Vortex Venom RD and my "don't judge me" SvBony $19 4x32 is on there now but I think 6-10X is my sweet spot....
I can do pellet on pellet comfortably at 6x out to 25 yards for as long as the reticle is very thin (Leupold or Clearidge fine) or with a floating center dot (SWFA's MOA-Quad).
I prefer SWFA's MOA-Quad reticle over their Mil-Quad one.
They're not the clearest though, and I did sell 2 of mine for they both were fixed 20x :P Just too much and with a terrible eyebox.
I'd probably get their 10x or even their 6x next time 👍
As clumsy neanderthal as I am I'd be afraid to take a Leupold into the woods..lol.
My CP3-9X32 on the jumper lives at 6X, I just need to click over to 7X to see the holes in the paper.
The Accushot on the AEA30 has not moved from 9X. I just turn the sidewheel until I can see.
Lol, I baby my stuff and don't hunt.
Used to when I was still in Asia------ hunt and compete, that is.
-
Center point offered a nice 6x AO scope with the Benjamin Maximus Hunter, if one can find that scope used or new get one. I have not been able to find them sold separately anywhere, and such a nice light weight scope and nice mag. setting for most airgun ranges.
-
Well the edge fits nicely on there as scout mount……gun still feels light to handle…riser and medium quick release rings work well…but at the moment gonna keep the reflex on it…but nice to know I got backup in my stash……good luck…
-
Well now that I have convinced myself to print out a new Moderator Baffle, I'm having nothing but trouble with my Printer, it's being finnicky, first it won't dispense PLA, clogged print orifice and heater tube, cleaned, working, now the control knob won't go to the right setting, keeps jumping around, cleaned potentiometer, ok, works, set to print object, PLA not sticking to base, cleaned base, still not sticking, adjusted base height, still not sticking, raised base temp to 65 C, ok, now sticking, start printing, ok, man, my printer is so much a pain in the you know what, but it's my fault for not using it as much and maintaining it as good.... ;D ;D ;)
ok Notos long Baffle printing.... 10+ hours
-
Not sure if it is light enough, but the west hunter 4-16 is working well for me. Parallax down to 10ish yards.
-
Sundays Shoot the Notos is way better than the operator and the SvBony 4x32. Smashing cans full clip with no misses at 25M and 30M all day long. Even hit at 40M. I could not see the holes in the paper at 25M at 4X fixed. I'm looking at scope options in the say 12x range and got some good suggestions from the ATL crew. I'm fighting with me being blind as a bat and wanting the Notos to be light weight. I guess I'll have to be okay with 1.25# scope for still under 5.5# total weight. Consistently shooting 3 clips and air-up just before off regulator. Yes, I tried the clip and maybe it just needs breaking in as I had no failure to feed or mangled pellets (or its the neanderthal error). Leaning towards ordering one 6 and one 12 shot mag from CARM. I packed my tripod and left the chrono so still have testing on the GTOs and H&N variety slug pack.
-
Sundays Shoot the Notos is way better than the operator and the SvBony 4x32. Smashing cans full clip with no misses at 25M and 30M all day long. Even hit at 40M. I could not see the holes in the paper at 25M at 4X fixed. I'm looking at scope options in the say 12x range and got some good suggestions from the ATL crew. I'm fighting with me being blind as a bat and wanting the Notos to be light weight. I guess I'll have to be okay with 1.25# scope for still under 5.5# total weight. Consistently shooting 3 clips and air-up just before off regulator. Yes, I tried the clip and maybe it just needs breaking in as I had no failure to feed or mangled pellets (or its the neanderthal error). Leaning towards ordering one 6 and one 12 shot mag from CARM. I packed my tripod and left the chrono so still have testing on the GTOs and H&N variety slug pack.
Clips are used in the M1 Garand, what you have sir are magazines.
-
Sundays Shoot the Notos is way better than the operator and the SvBony 4x32. Smashing cans full clip with no misses at 25M and 30M all day long. Even hit at 40M. I could not see the holes in the paper at 25M at 4X fixed. I'm looking at scope options in the say 12x range and got some good suggestions from the ATL crew. I'm fighting with me being blind as a bat and wanting the Notos to be light weight. I guess I'll have to be okay with 1.25# scope for still under 5.5# total weight. Consistently shooting 3 clips and air-up just before off regulator. Yes, I tried the clip and maybe it just needs breaking in as I had no failure to feed or mangled pellets (or its the neanderthal error). Leaning towards ordering one 6 and one 12 shot mag from CARM. I packed my tripod and left the chrono so still have testing on the GTOs and H&N variety slug pack.
Clips are used in the M1 Garand, what you have sir are magazines.
Speaking of which…..I just got 3 PP750 from Airgunarchery….little tight and dont load like OEM but excellent MAG….for the funds…good luck
-
Dave,
I like to clip the word "magazine" to "mag". ;)
Calling a "magazine" a "clip" is like calling an air tube, an air tank; vice versa. Hardly a capitol offence. It is all good among friends.
-
Would it also be ok to call them all vessels? They all contain and deliver something. :o
-
Would it also be ok to call them all vessels? They all contain and deliver something. :o
U do u…Im sticking with Mag..lol
-
Sundays Shoot the Notos is way better than the operator and the SvBony 4x32. Smashing cans full clip with no misses at 25M and 30M all day long. Even hit at 40M. I could not see the holes in the paper at 25M at 4X fixed. I'm looking at scope options in the say 12x range and got some good suggestions from the ATL crew. I'm fighting with me being blind as a bat and wanting the Notos to be light weight. I guess I'll have to be okay with 1.25# scope for still under 5.5# total weight. Consistently shooting 3 clips and air-up just before off regulator. Yes, I tried the clip and maybe it just needs breaking in as I had no failure to feed or mangled pellets (or its the neanderthal error). Leaning towards ordering one 6 and one 12 shot mag from CARM. I packed my tripod and left the chrono so still have testing on the GTOs and H&N variety slug pack.
Clips are used in the M1 Garand, what you have sir are magazines.
I love the seniors on this forum. Mea Culpa I meant CooKoo Clock thingy.....lol. You are correct sir Magazine/Mag. I've done marching drill competition and parades with de-comissioned M1's. Never fired a clip of rounds yet. Only the Color Guard got to fire blanks for the 21 gun salute. VT86Delta Company Corps of Cadets.
-
Would it also be ok to call them all vessels? They all contain and deliver something. :o
I think vessels are for fluids. Fluids can be liquids or gasses. Possibly for particles that can flow, such as grain, or BBs. Pellets or slugs, offered up one at a time, with proper alignment to the barrel chamber for loading, and having its own spring; are by definition magazines.
Yet, magazines can also be storage buildings, or a parts of a ship, or part of a battery, for cannon shells and propellant. The "springs" there may take various forms; with magazine buildings having the most un-spring-like delivery conveyances.
My contribution to this is to provide comic relief. I once heard that pedantry has no place in infantry. I said it myself; only yesterday :D. Although I suspect the exact opposite is true. In the military, things have very precise terminology, even if some of us think they went overboard: What is a boat? What is a ship? What is a maratime vessel? What is a gun? What is a rifle? What is artillery....
There is a place for precise language with airgunnery: If you want pellets, you need to be specific about the caliber, shape and weight. If you want to buy a mag, you need to be specific about the caliber, make and model of your airgun.
I rest my case, and bow out, so we can get back to ballistics.
-
Dave,
I like to clip the word "magazine" to "mag". ;)
Calling a "magazine" a "clip" is like calling an air tube, an air tank; vice versa. Hardly a capitol offence. It is all good among friends.
Hmmmm, never been b**** slapped by a DI, huh? 😉
-
More great information about the Notos, thanks David. Loving mine after some adjustments, Umarex seems to have hit a home run with this one. (Well, maybe a triple... better trigger and mags would be a home run for sure!)
Agree my friend Tripple with a big lead off :-)
I have my trigger very close with just the adjustment (no disassembly).
After break in my mag is working better, but I'm considering the CARM mags and CP4-12X44 as the game winning RBI.
The AG is more accurate than I am. It will be a joy working towards what the gun is capable of.
-
you can't go wrong with the Carm "mags", Just make sure your rings are tall enough for the "mags" to fit, Medium or Tall rings should do, if you have a low check bone, go with tall rings.... ;)
-
Lots has happened in the past 4 months. Full bottle conversion, bag rider delete, 8 baffle moderator insert, lapped the barrel, trigger work done.
I offered the conversion to others and just got my 20th conversion completed and in the mail, 2 more Notos sitting on the bench waiting for my attention, one is a FULL conversion with everything but a CF bottle and the second is just a barrel lapping and polish.
I can't wait until I get some "parts" to pull the moderator housings off and put 1/2-20 UNF male threaded adapters on the ends.
What you may not know: The Notos barrel is NOT crowned at the end of the barrel, the rifling ends about 1/4" in from the barrel end and crowing is marginal at best. It needs to be cut back, crowned and polished. That means the awful plastic overmolded housing has to be removed first.
The barrel I was lapping tonight, the housing had a full .125" of runout! Looking forward to getting some barrels ready for aftermarket mods!
-
Getting some Notos conversions out the door this morning, still waiting on parts on a full conversion, the parts stream is still slow and what took 3 weeks ia now taking 6 BUT parts I ordered via speed-pack from China two weeks ago are clearing customs today and should be here by wednesday.
I wanted to share my findings with the couple dozen Notos rifles I have worked on over the past couple months. First up, they are all very consistent, there have been zero defects of any kind, on any gun. That means that all the triggers are pretty poor... BUT they do improve with some work and springs. You do need to be especially careful when removing the barrel for two reasons: First, the two grub screws are often glued in and they dont respond to heat as well as Loctite, it responds more like super glue. I use a single drop of acetone from a blunt 40ga hypodermic needle on the bottom grub and put a load on the wrench then put heat on the wrench (soldering iron) to get the grub to break free.
-
I am now offering a moderator housing delete and barrel threading, 1/2-20 UNF for your silencer or shoot it without. So, if you want to run YOUR moderator on a Notos, this is your mod!
-
Getting some Notos conversions out the door this morning, still waiting on parts on a full conversion, the parts stream is still slow and what took 3 weeks ia now taking 6 BUT parts I ordered via speed-pack from China two weeks ago are clearing customs today and should be here by wednesday.
I wanted to share my findings with the couple dozen Notos rifles I have worked on over the past couple months. First up, they are all very consistent, there have been zero defects of any kind, on any gun. That means that all the triggers are pretty poor... BUT they do improve with some work and springs. You do need to be especially careful when removing the barrel for two reasons: First, the two grub screws are often glued in and they dont respond to heat as well as Loctite, it responds more like super glue. I use a single drop of acetone from a blunt 40ga hypodermic needle on the bottom grub and put a load on the wrench then put heat on the wrench (soldering iron) to get the grub to break free.
First thanks for sharing all this really good research with the GTA/NOTOS click community.
I have found my love for NOTOS as my first point-n-click PCP and other than adjusting the trigger screw, buying CARM mags and adding a QDC mount, I won't be modifying anything on the gun and just torture testing with woods walks and can dancing. I'm already bored shooting paper as the AG is more accurate than I am and prints sub MOS patterns with all the ammo I've tried. I am confident the AG as shipped will hit a squirrel sized kill zone at 35yards and in. It will do everything I could ask of it if it survives my clumsy unplanned torture testing aka walking around in the woods with me. Maybe someday if I felt the need to only hear the hammer strike and put a moderator on I will have the barrel crowned as the shroud would be off for the prep any kind of adapter.
Many thanks again!
-
Hey everyone, thanks for all the info, and thanks to Subscriber for doing all the work and sharing the silencer! I printed the long 8 baffle version. It fit in great, but I couldn't get the oring in, but it works fine without. There was a noticeable decrease in noise vs. Stock. I printed it using ASA filament on a Qidi printer. It took about 6.5 hours.
-
James, that is a nice crisp looking print.
-
Thanks, its a crisp looking design!
-
Hey guys, I just wanted to mention I had an issue with a loose/wiggling picatinny rail and shroud on my new Notos. I found the issue to be that the screw that secures it was actually too long and was bottoming out before seating on the rail. I removed the screw and ground off 1-2mm and reinstalled it. plenty of threads to grab, and no more wiggle. I hope that helps someone else.
-
Hey guys, I just wanted to mention I had an issue with a loose/wiggling picatinny rail and shroud on my new Notos. I found the issue to be that the screw that secures it was actually too long and was bottoming out before seating on the rail. I removed the screw and ground off 1-2mm and reinstalled it. plenty of threads to grab, and no more wiggle. I hope that helps someone else.
Did you check the Barrel set screw that is below the Rail set screw for tightness or proper alignment to the barrel set screw dimple? it might be loose or not aligned properly.
-
Thanks, James
You might have saved someone from overtightening their screws and stripping them, before realizing that they have the same problem.
My guess is that someone at the factory grabbed the wrong length screws, used somewhere else, and that unless they compared them to the right ones, the extra length was not obvious.
-
Hmmmm, never been b**** slapped by a DI, huh?
Brings back memories of my boot camp days, not a slapped but he picked up by my shoulders and threw 'x' amount of feet because I was not paying attention ;D :-[
To make things worse when he picked me up I grabbed him by his shirt, (yep really!!) normal reflex for me when someone grabs me, and I though I was going to die from the fall or from him! :o ;D
-
So my Field Supply order came in with the Apollo 18s. Tested in the Notos...
Notos Apollo 18s
12 688 18.92
11 702 19.69
10 695 19.3
9 705 19.86
8 701 19.64
7 701 19.64
6 689 18.97
5 694 19.25
4 694 19.25
3 688 18.92
2 683 18.64
1 701 19.64
ES=22 SD=7
I got an ES=4 and SD=2 with the CPHP 14.3s, but the gun is definitely a 19fpe power-plant and should be squirrel humane out to 35yards...
Didn't test for group yet...
-
Did you check the Barrel set screw that is below the Rail set screw for tightness or proper alignment to the barrel set screw dimple? it might be loose or not aligned properly.
Yes, I actually discovered this as I was checking the barrel screw. I was going to take the barrel out to check it out and clean it. I applied some force to remove the barrel, but it didn't budge. I decided to just leave it in for now since I had no real reason to take it out other than curiosity. That's a good point though, that if it were misaligned it could be causing the issue
-
Charles, my Notos is averaging 20 ft lbs with the Apolo 18 gns and they are laser accurate out to 60 yards which is as far as I can test in my yard range. Hopefully yours will like them as well as mine does. I zeroed mine at 20 yards and it is dead on at 35 yards, easily squirrel head accurate with just under 16 ft lbs at 35 yards.
-
Charles, my Notos is averaging 20 ft lbs with the Apolo 18 gns and they are laser accurate out to 60 yards which is as far as I can test in my yard range. Hopefully yours will like them as well as mine does. I zeroed mine at 20 yards and it is dead on at 35 yards, easily squirrel head accurate with just under 16 ft lbs at 35 yards.
Group testing will be next 8)
They look like they have potential so far. Thanks for sharing. I really like how Field Supply packages.
-
I think if I had one of these I would go a different route than most. I think I would detune it to somewhere between 12 and 15 fpe.
I don't hunt, I pest and I don't pest anything that requires more power than that within 35yds. to humanely dispatch.
Although I am air independent with several options to fill the gun, shot count and accuracy are still the priorities for me. I prefer to spend more time shooting a gun than filling it.
-
Thanks, James
You might have saved someone from overtightening their screws and stripping them, before realizing that they have the same problem.
My guess is that someone at the factory grabbed the wrong length screws, used somewhere else, and that unless they compared them to the right ones, the extra length was not obvious.
I found that one of my Notos had a similar problem but it had a deeper well for the screw than the other gun, causing a loose fit. I turned a SST washer down to the hole OD and dropped it in and now its snug.
Its just glass filled poly so dont over tighten the top grub, keep it under 10 inch pounds.
-
I think if I had one of these I would go a different route than most. I think I would detune it to somewhere between 12 and 15 fpe.
I don't hunt, I pest and I don't pest anything that requires more power than that within 35yds. to humanely dispatch.
Although I am air independent with several options to fill the gun, shot count and accuracy are still the priorities for me. I prefer to spend more time shooting a gun than filling it.
I have 2 of those mods out the door: .3L bottle mods and aftermarket light hammer springs is all it took. The adjustment screw is good for 11-14 FPE.
-
Did you check the Barrel set screw that is below the Rail set screw for tightness or proper alignment to the barrel set screw dimple? it might be loose or not aligned properly.
Yes, I actually discovered this as I was checking the barrel screw. I was going to take the barrel out to check it out and clean it. I applied some force to remove the barrel, but it didn't budge. I decided to just leave it in for now since I had no real reason to take it out other than curiosity. That's a good point though, that if it were misaligned it could be causing the issue
The bottom grub is glued in, I use a soldering pencil with a modified tip to heat the grub and a GOOD allen wrench with sharp walls to torque it out. The secret is time, put tension on the wrench but dont overtorque, the glue will break and the wrench will turn. I took a good minute of preloading the last grub and just waiting for the gule to fail.
Do NOT use ball end allen wrenches on this grub!
-
I think if I had one of these I would go a different route than most. I think I would detune it to somewhere between 12 and 15 fpe.
I don't hunt, I pest and I don't pest anything that requires more power than that within 35yds. to humanely dispatch.
Although I am air independent with several options to fill the gun, shot count and accuracy are still the priorities for me. I prefer to spend more time shooting a gun than filling it.
I have 2 of those mods out the door: .3L bottle mods and aftermarket light hammer springs is all it took. The adjustment screw is good for 11-14 FPE.
I'm sure that's a great mod for many folks but I think for me I would lean more towards the lighter HS and TP size reduction to maintain factory appearance and not add weight. I probably shouldn't even be commenting on the gun because I have zero intentions of buying one. They are not my preference in style and I apologize for the negativity.
-
Charles, my Notos is averaging 20 ft lbs with the Apolo 18 gns and they are laser accurate out to 60 yards which is as far as I can test in my yard range. Hopefully yours will like them as well as mine does. I zeroed mine at 20 yards and it is dead on at 35 yards, easily squirrel head accurate with just under 16 ft lbs at 35 yards.
Group testing will be next 8)
They look like they have potential so far. Thanks for sharing. I really like how Field Supply packages.
As promised 19.xfpe and a much tighter ES the image is top two are 9 shot groups with the Apollo 18s at 10yards.
They will be a keeper and the goto unless I get really good at casting the 20gr NOE hunter pellets...for the price I'm leaning towards just buying 1,000 Apollos.
I will keep the 14.3s for can dancing and the GTOs for the Gamo Springer
-
Mine is on a steady diet of H&N Excite hollow points. Shoots better than crosman hp and jsb hades and both Apolo domes. It shoots my cast hunter pellets slower and a different poi.
-
I think if I had one of these I would go a different route than most. I think I would detune it to somewhere between 12 and 15 fpe.
I don't hunt, I pest and I don't pest anything that requires more power than that within 35yds. to humanely dispatch.
Although I am air independent with several options to fill the gun, shot count and accuracy are still the priorities for me. I prefer to spend more time shooting a gun than filling it.
I have 2 of those mods out the door: .3L bottle mods and aftermarket light hammer springs is all it took. The adjustment screw is good for 11-14 FPE.
I'm sure that's a great mod for many folks but I think for me I would lean more towards the lighter HS and TP size reduction to maintain factory appearance and not add weight. I probably shouldn't even be commenting on the gun because I have zero intentions of buying one. They are not my preference in style and I apologize for the negativity.
OK, OK.. .22L CF bottle... ;D
-
Is there some method of removing the moderator without destroying it ? Also, what does "CRK" mean ? I have a large collection of 1/2-20 UNF LDC's and wouuld prefer using one of them and having the option of leaving it off.
-
Is there some method of removing the moderator without destroying it ? Also, what does "CRK" mean ? I have a large collection of 1/2-20 UNF LDC's and would prefer using one of them and having the option of leaving it off.
Replace it an Artemis barrel that matches from WesBob ??? He sells the Artimis LDCs drop shipped from California. https://airgunarcheryfun.ca/air-rifle-parts/
-
Is there some method of removing the moderator without destroying it ? Also, what does "CRK" mean ? I have a large collection of 1/2-20 UNF LDC's and wouuld prefer using one of them and having the option of leaving it off.
Yes, I thread the remaining portion and screw it on after threading the barrel.
-
Is there some method of removing the moderator without destroying it ? Also, what does "CRK" mean ? I have a large collection of 1/2-20 UNF LDC's and would prefer using one of them and having the option of leaving it off.
Replace it an Artemis barrel that matches from WesBob ??? He sells the Artimis LDCs drop shipped from California. https://airgunarcheryfun.ca/air-rifle-parts/
There is a bunch of them do you have a particular barrel in mind?
-
... Also, what does "CRK" mean ? ...
I wondered that too. I partly thought it was short for "cricket" since it's a small light gun. Ever seen "Men in Black"?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTqxFIpc1j4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTqxFIpc1j4)
It could be "crack" too -- once you start using, you don't want to stop. Make bad decisions, start hanging out with bad characters, tweakers and shooters -- downward spiral, my man. ;)
Hey, I'm also curious if airgunarcheryfun has any parts (barrels mostly) that will fit the Notos. They have parts for similar guns. I emailed them but got no reply at all.
-
Is there some method of removing the moderator without destroying it ? Also, what does "CRK" mean ? I have a large collection of 1/2-20 UNF LDC's and would prefer using one of them and having the option of leaving it off.
Replace it an Artemis barrel that matches from WesBob ??? He sells the Artimis LDCs drop shipped from California. https://airgunarcheryfun.ca/air-rifle-parts/
There is a bunch of them do you have a particular barrel in mind?
This but I see out of stock ATM https://airgunarcheryfun.ca/pp750-long-barrel/
-
The PP750 barrel is threaded into the breech while the NOTOS is a slip fit with grub screws to hold it. I have ordered a longer PP750 barrel from Wes for my PP750 and on my NOTOS conversions I am using ,177 and .25 kRAL np03 barrels for these builds. About 16 inch long and almost direct fit-only had to open breech about 1/16 inch for barrel to fit in far enough to work. Still getting probes and mags worked out.
-
So everyone saying the Notos was a relative of the PP750 was false ???
-
So everyone saying the Notos was a relative of the PP750 was false ???
Relative not a twin.... ;) some differences but many same.
-
... Also, what does "CRK" mean ? ...
I wondered that too. I partly thought it was short for "cricket" since it's a small light gun. Ever seen "Men in Black"?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTqxFIpc1j4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTqxFIpc1j4)
It could be "crack" too -- once you start using, you don't want to stop. Make bad decisions, start hanging out with bad characters, tweakers and shooters -- downward spiral, my man. ;)
Hey, I'm also curious if airgunarcheryfun has any parts (barrels mostly) that will fit the Notos. They have parts for similar guns. I emailed them but got no reply at all.
Could be cookies. I believe they are also addictive. ;D https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Gxj3cZlvGz8?feature=share (https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Gxj3cZlvGz8?feature=share)
Barrel might be the same as chaser/bandit. Have to check.
-
So everyone saying the Notos was a relative of the PP750 was false ???
Looks the same to me. A few changes were made, to include the barrel fitment and moving the cocking lever to the opposite side, but it seems to be a product of Snow Peak Airguns.
-
Did anyone figure out what crk means? I don't own one and don't know if I will, but it's bugging the @#@$ out of me not knowing.
-
My take is Carbine Rifle Kit ???
Been too busy shooting mine to take it apart, but know I know what to expect under the hood :)
-
Found it - "Compact Rifle Kit" https://hardairmagazine.com/news/the-new-umarex-notos-a-versatile-new-compact-pcp/ (https://hardairmagazine.com/news/the-new-umarex-notos-a-versatile-new-compact-pcp/)
-
Found it - "Compact Rifle Kit" https://hardairmagazine.com/news/the-new-umarex-notos-a-versatile-new-compact-pcp/ (https://hardairmagazine.com/news/the-new-umarex-notos-a-versatile-new-compact-pcp/)
Thanks! I'm not planning to buy one since I already have Prod but it bugged me for some crazy reason.
-
I have had both the PP750 and NOTOS completely apart. The valves look and attach the same. The levers are on different sides but the probes look the same. The hammers and springs are the same. The triggers appear to be the same. Only difference is PP750 has a screw in threaded barrel and NOTOS has slip in barrel.
-
With a threaded barrel, how is the transfer port configured? Is there a separate thimble with the TP in it? If so, the barrel can be rotated to fish for a more favorable POI, and harmonics for tighter groups. We like to think all barrels are straight, but in practice not always.
-
Yes the PP750 uses a thimble
-
Yes the PP750 uses a thimble
Sophisticated. At a bargain price.
-
Only 12 days to receive my Notos Carm Mags! Like really nice. Good quality build. And of course… I need to raise my scope. No worries though. Looking forward to giving them a try.
-
Only 12 days to receive my Notos Carm Mags! Like really nice. Good quality build. And of course… I need to raise my scope. No worries though. Looking forward to giving them a try.
You're gonna love it. I have the same setup. Went to LGR today and here's my groups with the Apollo 18s
-
Hi, I know I am late but I just got a Notos-$260 seemed like a no-brainer. How does one apply for these 3D printed baffles? Also, has anyone seen a wood stock for this gun? TIA
-
Rink makes a wood shoulder stock for the PP750 which would also work with the Notos. It’s the only wood stock I’m aware of unless you can make your own. https://formgriffe.de/en/Shoulder-stocks/
-
Highly recommend the Carm Mags for the Notos! Anyone have a couple .22/12 shot "right side" mags that might be interested in trading for 2x "left side" mags? I went with a different scope, and now need the right side loaders...darn focus wheel is in my way!
-
The Notos mods sure have taken off! Here are three guns ready to go back to their owners, all sorts of cool parts have come out lately,
The middle gun is fun, it has the plenum kit and the moderator housing delete BUT the moderator itself has been threaded and reattached to the barrel adapter. No need for an aftermarket moderator, no need to thread the barrel and a minimum of non-reversible mods done to your gun.
-
The Notos mods sure have taken off! Here are three guns ready to go back to their owners, all sorts of cool parts have come out lately,
The middle gun is fun, it has the plenum kit and the moderator housing delete BUT the moderator itself has been threaded and reattached to the barrel adapter. No need for an aftermarket moderator, no need to thread the barrel and a minimum of non-reversible mods done to your gun.
Can you send a picture of the middle AG without the moderator? How hard is it to DIY remove the moderator?
Wondering if the Notos could be a holstered pistol format....
Might buy a second one if so...
-
A guy on AGN shortened the barrel and tube on his. I think he took about 2" off the tube. That's what I'd like to do if I can find somebody to shorten and re-thread my tube.
Idk if he holsters it or not though.
-
The Notos mods sure have taken off! Here are three guns ready to go back to their owners, all sorts of cool parts have come out lately,
The middle gun is fun, it has the plenum kit and the moderator housing delete BUT the moderator itself has been threaded and reattached to the barrel adapter. No need for an aftermarket moderator, no need to thread the barrel and a minimum of non-reversible mods done to your gun.
Can you send a picture of the middle AG without the moderator? How hard is it to DIY remove the moderator?
Wondering if the Notos could be a holstered pistol format....
Might buy a second one if so...
Sorry, that gun has been sent back to its home.
Is it hard to remove the moderator housing? No... if you have a lathe. Yes... if you only have hand tools.
YES! The Notos can be made to be a holstered pistol. I would decide on a barrel length, cut the barrel down, grab the ebay Umarex Notos 1/2x20 UNF Shroud Adapter, cut the shroud to match the length of the chosen moderator to end where the air tank ends. The barrel would be perhaps 8" long but it would be much more compat.
-
A guy on AGN shortened the barrel and tube on his. I think he took about 2" off the tube. That's what I'd like to do if I can find somebody to shorten and re-thread my tube.
Idk if he holsters it or not though.
The shroud? I do that, shoot me a PM for details.
-
The Notos mods sure have taken off! Here are three guns ready to go back to their owners, all sorts of cool parts have come out lately,
The middle gun is fun, it has the plenum kit and the moderator housing delete BUT the moderator itself has been threaded and reattached to the barrel adapter. No need for an aftermarket moderator, no need to thread the barrel and a minimum of non-reversible mods done to your gun.
Can you send a picture of the middle AG without the moderator? How hard is it to DIY remove the moderator?
Wondering if the Notos could be a holstered pistol format....
Might buy a second one if so...
Sorry, that gun has been sent back to its home.
Is it hard to remove the moderator housing? No... if you have a lathe. Yes... if you only have hand tools.
YES! The Notos can be made to be a holstered pistol. I would decide on a barrel length, cut the barrel down, grab the ebay Umarex Notos 1/2x20 UNF Shroud Adapter, cut the shroud to match the length of the chosen moderator to end where the air tank ends. The barrel would be perhaps 8" long but it would be much more compat.
Thanks for the candid reply. I only have hand tools so DIY is out. Had a Chandit pp800r in my AG Archery Fun cart and with shipping it was $200 so I went back to Pyramid and refreshed my view of the Jet 1 for $200....Decided to let Memsahib know I want a GK1 and hold my breathe while continuing to wish....
-
Yeah, I don't even have the balls to tell Betty Lou I want one.
-
Yeah, I don't even have the balls to tell Betty Lou I want one.
You can let her shoot one on Wednesday and then have her tell you she wants one! You gotta work every angle!
-
Yeah, I don't even have the balls to tell Betty Lou I want one.
You can let her shoot one on Wednesday and then have her tell you she wants one! You gotta work every angle!
I did get her to shoot the Gamo Jumper when it was my first AG...
She won't touch my PBs.
When I mention an AG she just rolls her eyes....lol
-
Fell off the wagon and bottled my Notos yesterday!
-
I have had the parts to bottle my Notos before I got mine, been shooting it so much have not gotten to it, and may just keep the tube for the compactness. The bottle may replace a heavy AL bottle on another rifle.
-
Fell off the wagon and bottled my Notos yesterday!
How is the drop block attached to the receiver?
If with screws, do the holes in the drop block match those in the receiver?
-
Fell off the wagon and bottled my Notos yesterday!
Looks like the Z block, Nice!
-
Fell off the wagon and bottled my Notos yesterday!
How is the drop block attached to the receiver?
If with screws, do the holes in the drop block match those in the receiver?
No, there is a 16mm male threaded airblock that the Z block screws to.
-
Fell off the wagon and bottled my Notos yesterday!
Nice! How does that reg work? Looks cleaner than the traditional type regs.
Is it shorter overall than running a separate reg and block setup?
-
I like to post all the cool stuff you can do to the Notos but there are a few things that aren't so cool.
Watch out for Monday morning parts hardening.
Here is a hammer I had to replace this week. The one on the left is hardened and the one on the right was not.
If you are having trouble cocking your gun because the sear wont engage with the hammer, it may be your hammer. I'm in conversation with Umarex but dont get your hopes up, they dont like modifications.
-
Fell off the wagon and bottled my Notos yesterday!
How is the drop block attached to the receiver?
If with screws, do the holes in the drop block match those in the receiver?
Screws on the same place the tube it replaces screws on.
-
Fell off the wagon and bottled my Notos yesterday!
Looks like the Z block, Nice!
Thanks! Lol clocked it with a sander lol. Thanks for blazing the trail Dave!
-
Fell off the wagon and bottled my Notos yesterday!
Nice! How does that reg work? Looks cleaner than the traditional type regs.
Is it shorter overall than running a separate reg and block setup?
Reg working great so far. Haven’t messed with the reg yet. When I filled it was set 90 Mpa perfect for back yard work. 680/670 fps.
-
Fell off the wagon and bottled my Notos yesterday!
Nice! How does that reg work? Looks cleaner than the traditional type regs.
Is it shorter overall than running a separate reg and block setup?
Reg working great so far. Haven’t messed with the reg yet. When I filled it was set 90 Mpa perfect for back yard work. 680/670 fps.
Cool. Do you have a link to where you got it?
-
Fell off the wagon and bottled my Notos yesterday!
Nice! How does that reg work? Looks cleaner than the traditional type regs.
Is it shorter overall than running a separate reg and block setup?
Reg working great so far. Haven’t messed with the reg yet. When I filled it was set 90 Mpa perfect for back yard work. 680/670 fps.
Cool. Do you have a link to where you got it?
https://www.aliexpress.us/w/wholesale-huben-power-regulator-airforce-airgun.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.search.0
-
A customer is sending me one to install on thier gun and I have 2 of those Z blocks inroute for stock, Thanks for posting Mike!
Sanding the block to clock it makes worries me, there is no way to keep it completely flat when sanding, even on glass. The force it takes to move the block tilts it slightly, making it high in the middle. This allows for greater leverage and a better chance of shearing the air block off.
I would turn them in a lathe to clock them.
-
No worry lol. have more pixs but they seem to be to big.
-
No worry lol. have more pixs but they seem to be to big.
Nice!
-
I ordered a Umarex Notos CRK from Pyramid Air last Thursday and it arrived this afternoon so I just had to tear it down, do a few mods and get some pellets through it before dinner.
The box was inside a considerably larger box with plenty of padding (kraft paper) to keep the gun safe. I opened the box and found pretty normal packaging with the black firm foam snuggling the gun.
We have the front end, the stock and two little baggies of screws, probe and magazine.
I just got my 3rd Notos from Natchez today, 9 months after I got my 1st one. It's still in the box, in another box, still sealed up.
I want to do something special with this gun, I would love to hear about your ideas for something special.
What you got?
Super-shorty pistol?
CF conversion Black Friday sale?
A raffle for mega-build?
-
I've been wanting to shorten mine to make it more comfortable to shoot as a pistol. Haven't found anybody that can shorten the air tube yet.
-
I've been wanting to shorten mine to make it more comfortable to shoot as a pistol. Haven't found anybody that can shorten the air tube yet.
I am working on a series of 12" overall length Notos pistols right now. I gotta warn you, there isn't much air in there!
-
Dave I see you clocked a 15cc plenum on a z block was it off much?
-
So who's making a Competition style side lever for the Notos? I would make one but I don't want to buy a bunch of tooling.... ;D
-
Dave I see you clocked a 15cc plenum on a z block was it off much?
70°!!!!
I took off .25mm to get it to clock correctly. I chose to take the material off the plenum since it has a generous amount of material that would not affect the Z-block.
-
So who's making a Competition style side lever for the Notos? I would make one but I don't want to buy a bunch of tooling.... ;D
Nobody...
That would need an investment casting.
-
I have a full gun conversion to finish today, I love getting there and tearing a gun all the way down!
-
Dave I see you clocked a 15cc plenum on a z block was it off much?
70°!!!!
I took off .25mm to get it to clock correctly. I chose to take the material off the plenum since it has a generous amount of material that would not affect the Z-block.
Cool I can handle that with my trusty HF 7x12. Thanks!
-
Apologies didnt read everything………yet…but has anybody come up with an easy way remove factory moderator …..I got the ebay machined kit coming minus the plenum….I will be in the hospital but I got neighbors watching for porch pirates…lol
TIA
-
Back together bout 30 mins.
-
Finished my lastest update to the Notos
-
Got tired of the sharp edges on the Z block used pictinny cover for the cure. works great.
-
I've been stalking the Notos for a few weeks now.
I really like what I've read and I think it will make a great first PCP for me.
-
I've been stalking the Notos for a few weeks now.
I really like what I've read and I think it will make a great first PCP for me.
Can't go wrong!
-
I have too many PCPs and I like the Notos sooooo much that it’s probably my last PCP.
Tongue-&Cheek because that won’t happen at least for me.
‘X’ ll is in my sights/future.
-
I have too many PCPs and I like the Notos sooooo much that it’s probably my last PCP.
Tongue-&Cheek because that won’t happen at least for me.
‘X’ ll is in my sights/future.
I recently sold my Project 1322. I learned a lot but I love just shooting the Notos better. It is now my small game companion carbine for all pack-outs. I might make a few more runs with Thick Girl (AEA 30 Cal) cause she puts the1 shot DRT on squirrels even out to 35+ yards. So far I have limited the Notos to 35 yards and less.
-
I'm currently working on a cocking lever for the Notos, it's design is based on owner input and a design found on another moders post.
It will have an offset from the left side of the gun with a vertical post under the lever for easy access and clears the Carm hi-capacity mag.
I'm still in the design phase with a limited run of 25 levers. I should have the first one mounted this week.
Here is a mockup without the post.
-
Apologies didnt read everything………yet…but has anybody come up with an easy way remove factory moderator …..I got the ebay machined kit coming minus the plenum….I will be in the hospital but I got neighbors watching for porch pirates…lol
TIA
-
Apologies didnt read everything………yet…but has anybody come up with an easy way remove factory moderator …..I got the ebay machined kit coming minus the plenum….I will be in the hospital but I got neighbors watching for porch pirates…lol
TIA
Phil,
Send me the barrel, I'll take care of the rest.
-
Im working on the post for the lever right now, there will be a 20mm M5 cap head stainless screw bonding the post to the lever. More pictures tomorrow.
-
Apologies didnt read everything………yet…but has anybody come up with an easy way remove factory moderator …..I got the ebay machined kit coming minus the plenum….I will be in the hospital but I got neighbors watching for porch pirates…lol
TIA
Phil,
Send me the barrel, I'll take care of the rest.
Thanks ..was curious….my intention was/is to purchase extra barrel from u ..per our PM discussions….
-
I thought you may have changed gears! ;)
-
I'm currently working on a cocking lever for the Notos, it's design is based on owner input and a design found on another moders post.
It will have an offset from the left side of the gun with a vertical post under the lever for easy access and clears the Carm hi-capacity mag.
I'm still in the design phase with a limited run of 25 levers. I should have the first one mounted this week.
Here is a mockup without the post.
Cool, I'm thinking similar design.... ;)
-
ROUGH prototypes:
-
ROUGH prototypes:
looks like it will work fine.
-
Turns out my powder coat powder is too old and it overcoated, I'll buy new before doing production.
-
I finally stopped shooting my Notos long enough to add the bottle adapter , I had bought way before I could get a Notos. I am using an AV regulator set at 2900 psi, so I am basically running it unregulated, with a suprising shot string, but was also testing the ability of the OE hammer spring.
H&N 21 gr. slugs has been its favorite hunting round so I finished off a tin of them and started another one to see how far I could go.
Hammer spring is 1/2 turn out from max.
692
693
694
695
690
694
687
693 2550 psi left
691
695
691
689
691
690
686
685 2250 psi left
683
682
679
677
670
669
670
666
668
665 2050 end pressure . . .
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/gallery/17377-240124085437.jpeg)
FAUX Carbon Fiber Bottle ;)
-
P.S. Does anyone know the OE hammer spring dimensions, or better yet a link to a stronger one that fits, asking for a friend :)
-
I finally stopped shooting my Notos long enough to add the bottle adapter , I had bought way before I could get a Notos. I am using an AV regulator set at 2900 psi, so I am basically running it unregulated, with a suprising shot string, but was also testing the ability of the OE hammer spring.
H&N 21 gr. slugs has been its favorite hunting round so I finished off a tin of them and started another one to see how far I could go.
Hammer spring is 1/2 turn out from max.
692
693
694
695
690
694
687
693 2550 psi left
691
695
691
689
691
690
686
685 2250 psi left
683
682
679
677
670
669
670
666
668
665 2050 end pressure . . .
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/gallery/17377-240124085437.jpeg)
FAUX Carbon Fiber Bottle ;)
I saw the bittle adapter on Aliexpress.
Did you have to do anything to the adapter to make it fit the Notos ?
-
P.S. Does anyone know the OE hammer spring dimensions, or better yet a link to a stronger one that fits, asking for a friend :)
Check out reply#8 in my YANT thread
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=208364.msg156457798#msg156457798
I am using a weaker hardware store spring that is a bit short. Ordered an assortment of springs from China, but haven't tried any of them yet.
-
P.S. Does anyone know the OE hammer spring dimensions, or better yet a link to a stronger one that fits, asking for a friend :)
I used this seller for my 3mm CS x 305mm spring stock for my Challenger SSS experimenting. They also have pre-cut in 10mm increments. I bought the 2mmx22mmx70mm precut from eBay as well. China 2-3 weeks wait but free shipping and cheap. You can also do small quantities like 1 or 3 and typically no minimum order....
Seller:
hkgy01
99.2% positive (9,855)
Explore more from this seller
-
I finally stopped shooting my Notos long enough to add the bottle adapter , I had bought way before I could get a Notos. I am using an AV regulator set at 2900 psi, so I am basically running it unregulated, with a suprising shot string, but was also testing the ability of the OE hammer spring.
H&N 21 gr. slugs has been its favorite hunting round so I finished off a tin of them and started another one to see how far I could go.
Hammer spring is 1/2 turn out from max.
692
693
694
695
690
694
687
693 2550 psi left
691
695
691
689
691
690
686
685 2250 psi left
683
682
679
677
670
669
670
666
668
665 2050 end pressure . . .
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/gallery/17377-240124085437.jpeg)
FAUX Carbon Fiber Bottle ;)
I like your string. Looks like 2 CARM mags of 22fpe fun. Is that slug a HP and do you think it will expand at 680-690fps or are you just thumping with 21 grains of lead? Just curious...
-
I'm currently working on a cocking lever for the Notos, it's design is based on owner input and a design found on another moders post.
It will have an offset from the left side of the gun with a vertical post under the lever for easy access and clears the Carm hi-capacity mag.
I'm still in the design phase with a limited run of 25 levers. I should have the first one mounted this week.
Here is a mockup without the post.
Tracking
-
Looks like I have come to the end of my NOTOS/PP750 journey. Thanks to FIREWALKER and many others I have enjoyed the tinkering and mods to these pistols/carbines. I have the PP750 with the bottle mod and 16 inch barrel shooting 10.5 Crosman Premieres at 855 FPS .The NOTOS .22 with bottle mod and 16 inch barrel doing 840 with 14.3 and the .25 NOTOS doing 780 with 20 grain pellets. All have side levers which I made from aluminum angle with hand tools. They also have custom made barrel bands from HOTSNOTS. I am now going to mod my ICONS and see what becomes of them. Thank you to all who have contributed all their experience and advise. This is truly a great Forum to be a part of.
-
I finally stopped shooting my Notos long enough to add the bottle adapter , I had bought way before I could get a Notos. I am using an AV regulator set at 2900 psi, so I am basically running it unregulated, with a suprising shot string, but was also testing the ability of the OE hammer spring.
H&N 21 gr. slugs has been its favorite hunting round so I finished off a tin of them and started another one to see how far I could go.
Hammer spring is 1/2 turn out from max.
692
693
694
695
690
694
687
693 2550 psi left
691
695
691
689
691
690
686
685 2250 psi left
683
682
679
677
670
669
670
666
668
665 2050 end pressure . . .
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/gallery/17377-240124085437.jpeg)
FAUX Carbon Fiber Bottle ;)
I like your string. Looks like 2 CARM mags of 22fpe fun. Is that slug a HP and do you think it will expand at 680-690fps or are you just thumping with 21 grains of lead? Just curious...
Pretty much just thumping the game with heavy wind resistant lead, getting pas throghs on most shots unless they transverse lengthwise, I do not try and take those shots.
-
Looks like I have come to the end of my NOTOS/PP750 journey. Thanks to FIREWALKER and many others I have enjoyed the tinkering and mods to these pistols/carbines. I have the PP750 with the bottle mod and 16 inch barrel shooting 10.5 Crosman Premieres at 855 FPS .The NOTOS .22 with bottle mod and 16 inch barrel doing 840 with 14.3 and the .25 NOTOS doing 780 with 20 grain pellets. All have side levers which I made from aluminum angle with hand tools. They also have custom made barrel bands from HOTSNOTS. I am now going to mod my ICONS and see what becomes of them. Thank you to all who have contributed all their experience and advise. This is truly a great Forum to be a part of.
Nice Notos Richard, I could of used a side lever like that trying to work mine today with heavy gloves on was a no go so had to frozen finger it LOL
-
I really like mine ,right out of the box,decided to leave the stock moderator …but a question
Was that slick cocking lever ever offered to the public…
TIA
-
I finally stopped shooting my Notos long enough to add the bottle adapter , I had bought way before I could get a Notos. I am using an AV regulator set at 2900 psi, so I am basically running it unregulated, with a suprising shot string, but was also testing the ability of the OE hammer spring.
H&N 21 gr. slugs has been its favorite hunting round so I finished off a tin of them and started another one to see how far I could go.
Hammer spring is 1/2 turn out from max.
692
693
694
695
690
694
687
693 2550 psi left
691
695
691
689
691
690
686
685 2250 psi left
683
682
679
677
670
669
670
666
668
665 2050 end pressure . . .
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/gallery/17377-240124085437.jpeg)
FAUX Carbon Fiber Bottle ;)
I like your string. Looks like 2 CARM mags of 22fpe fun. Is that slug a HP and do you think it will expand at 680-690fps or are you just thumping with 21 grains of lead? Just curious...
Pretty much just thumping the game with heavy wind resistant lead, getting pas throghs on most shots unless they transverse lengthwise, I do not try and take those shots.
Did the bottle adapter just fit or did you have to modify it?
-
Naptemp- some of the blocks fit ok but some need to be tapped further 16mm x 1mm. Tennx the levers are easy to make with a 1 inch by 1 inch aluminum angle and some hand tools. Just used a saw and file to cut out and a couple thread couplers from amazon with long screw to screw them together. The rubber pieces are just ink pen sleeves cut to fit.
-
[/quote]
Did the bottle adapter just fit or did you have to modify it?
[/quote]
if you want to do your own modifications to the notos here's my original Thread on modifying to a bottle.
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=208359.0
but if you want to buy one, PM Firewalker, he's making the kit.
-
I did not have to make modifications, got lucky, again LOL. Here is a video that take the steps in depth. I am seeing a plenum extension in my future, if I want more power in its current setup.
https://youtu.be/_nUcwVhORv8
-
Awesome video James..
I've never bottled a gun nor have even owned a bottled gun. I always thought it was above my expertise. But watching that video makes me want to spend some money.
The best thing is, I'm all about reversible mods. That is 100% reversible. Even with the smallest bottle I can increase shot count 4x. The low shot count on these guns, this and the Jet 1&2, are the downside for me.
-
I like that second and third drop block setup with the built in regulator, I might get a couple to try on the Notos and the Prod. ;)
-
I like that second and third drop block setup with the built in regulator, I might get a couple to try on the Notos and the Prod. ;)
Yup built in and externally adjustable !
-
I just looked at these on Wes's website. This would be a great upgrade, but it appears he's currently out of stock on the model with Part 66. I'd prefer to go that route since he test fits them to ensure they line up and don't leak!
-
I just looked at these on Wes's website. This would be a great upgrade, but it appears he's currently out of stock on the model with Part 66. I'd prefer to go that route since he test fits them to ensure they line up and don't leak!
I'd sire like to get a handful of part 66!
-
Just wanted to thank you all for the work you guys have done in this thread, it has been fascinating to read.
Sucked me in to buying my first AG (the Notos obviously).
-
I tell u..Ive probably bought 4+ guns since purchasing my Notos…but still a go to treat to shoot…taking it outside now…and that 15 shot mag is icing on the cake…good luck
-
Just wanted to thank you all for the work you guys have done in this thread, it has been fascinating to read.
Sucked me in to buying my first AG (the Notos obviously).
You are very welcome....
But wait... there's more.... 500mm barrel!
-
I finally made the long Baffle moderator for mine and my brothers Notos, got my new 3D printer working to do the job my old one couldn't do, it does make the report just a Mouse fart..... ;D ;D ;D
-
Just wanted to thank you all for the work you guys have done in this thread, it has been fascinating to read.
Sucked me in to buying my first AG (the Notos obviously).
You are very welcome....
But wait... there's more.... 500mm barrel!
500mm barrel? who's making barrels for it?
-
I want to know that too be nice to have a longer barrel