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All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => 3D printing and files => Topic started by: customcutter on March 16, 2022, 12:45:59 AM
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I am looking for a free/low cost CAD/CAM program for designing parts to print with a 3D printer, or machine with my CNC mill if/when I get it running again. I've either got a bad stepper motor, or a bad piece on the break out board. I haven't investigated yet to find out which.
Any recommendations for something easy and intuitive, or lots of YT tutorials? Thanks
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Fusion 360
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Fusion 360
Thanks, I was trying to learn Fusion 360 about 10 years ago when I first converted my mill. I think I milled a couple of circular holes and rectangles in some 1/4" Al. Then I got busy and the mill sat for years, along with all my other machining tools.
I went to sign back up a few years ago, and it was my understanding it was no longer "free" for hobbyist. Everyone was recommending migrating away from Fusion 360.
I just read this article and it "appears to still be free for hobbyist", you just have to re-new every year. 8)
https://cncphilosophy.com/fusion-360-free/
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yes, its still free for hobbyist non commercial use. with renewal every year.
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for basic designs , tinkercad.. You can then send that file direct to fusion 360 to either do cam , slicing , or both.( theres a direct link since both are autodesk). the learning curve on tinkercad is fast.. With zero experience , you will be able to draw whatever you can think of in a few months.
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I used to use freecad but since then I've switched to openscad which is more like programming instead of using a gui.
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Thanks guys, I'll check them out over the next few weeks.
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I use freecad still because it’s not web based. Kinda clunky but it’s what I know.
Fusion for cam stuff but not needed for 3D printing.
Dave
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I use freecad still because it’s not web based. Kinda clunky but it’s what I know.
Fusion for cam stuff but not needed for 3D printing.
Dave
Thanks Dave, I had forgotten about that. With Fusion aren't your files stored in "The Cloud" or what ever the heck that is.... Another reason I was thinking of moving on from Fusion 360.
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I use freecad still because it’s not web based. Kinda clunky but it’s what I know.
Fusion for cam stuff but not needed for 3D printing.
Dave
Thanks Dave, I had forgotten about that. With Fusion aren't your files stored in "The Cloud" or what ever the heck that is.... Another reason I was thinking of moving on from Fusion 360.
yes, its their ransom if someone doesnt pay the bills
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It's hard to beat the features that Fusion has even on the free version. I also hate how Autodesk s-crewed over their user base BUT I still use it because at the end of the day it's the best there is for free programs.
As far as cloud storage goes you can always export your files and save them anywhere you would like. I do that with all of my designs.
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It's hard to beat the features that Fusion has even on the free version. I also hate how Autodesk s-crewed over their user base BUT I still use it because at the end of the day it's the best there is for free programs.
As far as cloud storage goes you can always export your files and save them anywhere you would like. I do that with all of my designs.
Thanks, hadn't thought of that. Come to think of it, I did the "designs" on my laptop, and then downloaded them and transfered them to the desktop PC running Linux that is hooked to the milling machine. It's not on my home "network".
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you can add files to offline cache, so you still have access to the file when you don't have internet with fusion 360
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Fusion with the paid account is still super cheap. Its what I use.
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Fusion with the paid account is still super cheap. Its what I use.
I think I used it 3 times in the 2 or 3 years I used it. If I was a more frequent user, maybe. ;D
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cheap. hmmm. 500 is a good chunk to me. lol
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cheap. hmmm. 500 is a good chunk to me. lol
Same, I am pretty happy with the features I get with the free license. Although being able to convert an STL to a solid with one click would be one reason I would get the paid version.
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you can so that already with the free license although not single click, but can be done. and not as pretty as a clean fresh model
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on the free license , the mesh to solid isnt really good.( almost useless for exporting as step , or doing CAM from. ) . you need the prismatic , which is part of the paid subscription... For a casual user ,it doesnt make much sense. The only thing fusion has thats really good is the Cam in my opinion but for free users theres no 4th axis , no tool changes, no rapids , etc etc
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true. the prismatic is better for sure. just watched a video in that option. very nice for sure. but i found that if you create face groups first it will give a slightly better conversion.
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I find the STL conversions terrible and I have spent hours trying different settings and paths and I've watched every online tutorial. It probably works fine for simple designs with very few features, curves and edges. For something simple like that I'll just draw it up myself.
Like I said having Prismatic is almost worth the yearly subscription price.
Ideally we would normalize people uploading their CAD files along with their STL's. I can see if it's a paid STL but for free ones I always upload the CAD file too.
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I am looking for a free/low cost CAD/CAM program for designing parts to print with a 3D printer, or machine with my CNC mill if/when I get it running again. I've either got a bad stepper motor, or a bad piece on the break out board. I haven't investigated yet to find out which.
Any recommendations for something easy and intuitive, or lots of YT tutorials? Thanks
Take a look into SketchUp, free version is available, seems easy, lots of YT tutorials, but, the free version may not be advanced enough for your needs.
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So I learned "AC3d" ($150) in second life (the video game) building with primes (basic shapes) combining and subtracting them to get the desired result.
A free modeling software that follows the same easy to learn method but has advanced options is "matter hackers" it's built for 3d printing.
Hope this helps.
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Fusion 360
100%
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Now that I have a 3D printer coming, it's time I upgraded from CAD X11.... ::) .... I have looked at both FreeCAD and Fusion 360, and I really don't like the idea of the very expensive annual subscription for Fusion.... Yes, I know they have a Personal Version, but that free subscription is (currently) in 3 year chunks, and of course subject to them changing access to your files at any time.... Yes, I know you can Export files, but I would imagine that in order to gain access to those again, to edit them for instance, would you not have to have a working version of Fusion?.... It also only allows 10 "active" files, I have no idea what that means, I have hundreds of files in CAD X11, and they are all stored on my computer, so they are always available.... I know that FreeCAD can reportedly be "glitchy", but I have no idea if that would be an issue for me, with the relatively simple models I need....
So, for those of you who use FreeCAD, please tell me the pros and cons as you have found it, in particular have you experienced problems using the output for 3D printing, and what do you need to do to export it to the slicer program?.... Any other suggestions are welcome.
Bob
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Pros for me are;
Works entirely offline...my internet can be spotty and fusion never ran well for me.
Model storage is only limited by your own storage space.
Rapid moves are available in the Path workbench (CAM)
A workbench for just about any purpose you could want. https://wiki.freecad.org/External_workbenches
Once you get "on to" modeling with it, it gets pretty easy. Constrain your sketches and save fillets/radii for the very end. I use pocket more than hole.
Easily as many tutorials on youtube as there is for Fusion. Sliptonic, Mangojelly, Joko Engineering and The Hardware guy all have excellent content IMO.
Easy exporting to .STL for printing...click "body" in the model tree and hit ctrl e (export). Then open the file in your slicer program, slice and save the gcode file. Have had issues with "broken" models (my fault), but no issues slicing the models in Cura.
Have been able to model everything I've wanted to thus far. Run into a road block...hit youtube and get it figured out.
Cons;
Can be glitchy as you mention, particularly with filleting/radius operations and more so if the model has any issues. (unconstrained sketches, overlaps/gaps)
0.20 has thread modeling within the "hole" button...works, but takes a lot of processing. I prefer to generate a sketch of the thread profile on the correct axis and use one of the helix sweeps (additive or subtractive) Easier to adjust the sketch to get required thread clearance.
If you have specific questions, feel free to shoot me a pm. Will help if I can.
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FreeCad pros - a lot of youtube help videos, constant updates and new features added, bugs fixed rather quickly, can be used for 2d and 3d design, outputs for multiple file formats, will generate gcode for 3d cam, good support forum (just follow their requirements).
cons - steep learning curve but lots of help available, not always intuitive.
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Another FreeCAD user.
Pros: Lots of videos showing how to get started. No fees or costs later. Doesn't require internet to run, doesn't require you to register. Not hard to use, and pretty powerful.
Cons: Not quite as intuitive as some other programs. User interface is a little dated. Filleting and chamfering are quirky and should always be done last.
Pretty happy with it so far. Learned it last year. Took me a while, since I had no 3d experience, but has been extremely helpful to me to help design and visualize mechanical assemblies. I machine from the drawings I make.
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I have tried several cad programs and the only one that I have been successful with is old boxes. Second best is SketchUp I can get some crude stuff done but final fitmant required work.
I don't recommend SketchUp unless you are a knuckle dragging luddite like me.
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Going to say, it is worth putting in the time to learn. I was one of those knuckle dragging Luddites.
Last year, I decided to learn 3D CAD. It took me 3 weeks at 6 real hours per day to actually learn it. Well worth the slog. Learned via youtube videos. Don't be afraid to slow the vidoes down, so you can catch the mouse movements and stuff that is really easy to miss when you are a beginner. Keep rewinding and playing again until you get substantially the same results as the instructor. The learning is cumulative, so it's really important not to let much stuff get by - especially in the beginning. I had to put on headphones so I wouldn't break my attention. It was an intense three weeks, but the time spent has been paid back many fold.
Here's a small gear shaft that broke on my lathe. It's not much, but it snapped off, rendering my lathe useless. I designed it in 3D CAD and machined from the design. In less than a day, I was up and running again. I ended up ordering a replacement part, which took 2 weeks to get to me, in case this one failed. That was last year - my part is still going strong. No this part isn't complicated, but using the CAD helped me think of how I would make the part - before I machined it.
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Here's something a little more complicated. It's a view of a housing for my electronic lead screw controller for my lathe. Never in a million years would I be able to get this right with simple sketches. Lots of things have to register correctly. I 3d printed the housing and its cover. You can see the holes with the flats - that's for the aviation style connectors. On the left side are magnet pockets to attach the unit to the head stock of my lathe. The pockets are closed ended on the outside, with the magnets being pressed into the housing from the inside. 3D modeling is definitely enabling - well worth the pain of learning.
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Glad it worked out for you but I have put in far too many hours already and I know when enough is enough for me. I won't waste one more second of my life on CAD.
For others give it a whirl don't let me stop you from trying.
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I sure can understand the sentiment @Insanity. I was that guy too. This stuff eluded me for 30 years - no joke. I tried off and on over decades to learn this, and it didn't happen. The only thing that worked for me was to work at it continuously, interrupted only by meals and the need to sleep. At least for me, any interruption (in the beginning) while learning this material simply set me backwards. Nothing was sticking in my dense pea brain.
Once I got the basic ideas (in a few days) then it was plodding through the material to learn the other stuff. Wasn't easy, but at least I started making progress. It was kind of motivating to get to the point of modeling something (simple) and then doing an export to stl. Think that was the 5th or 6th lesson. Thought to myself, hey this is pretty cool.
Not learning CAD, did set back my career. I regret not learning it earlier. But, that's water over the spillway, seeing as I am retired now. Can't fix the past.
I do have to say, one needs some uninterrupted time to learn this. If you don't have enough uninterrupted time in your life, then learning this would be tough indeed. For me, it took about 126 quality hours of (video) instruction. It was work - tasked by myself - and I was a tough taskmaster. Heh, heh, I didn't let myself get away with anything, because I knew all my tricks for evading "work".
Anyways, it might not work for you in your current circumstances, but I thought I'd let you know that learning this stuff is possible with a combination of both hard work and perseverance. At least that's my story. It's up to you to write your own story.
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The statement of uninterrupted is spot on. I dont have 6+ hours a day to mess with anything after work. Maybe in 30 years I can do that after I retire.
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I sure can understand the sentiment @Insanity. I was that guy too. This stuff eluded me for 30 years - no joke. I tried off and on over decades to learn this, and it didn't happen. The only thing that worked for me was to work at it continuously, interrupted only by meals and the need to sleep. At least for me, any interruption (in the beginning) while learning this material simply set me backwards. Nothing was sticking in my dense pea brain.
Once I got the basic ideas (in a few days) then it was plodding through the material to learn the other stuff. Wasn't easy, but at least I started making progress. It was kind of motivating to get to the point of modeling something (simple) and then doing an export to stl. Think that was the 5th or 6th lesson. Thought to myself, hey this is pretty cool.
Not learning CAD, did set back my career. I regret not learning it earlier. But, that's water over the spillway, seeing as I am retired now. Can't fix the past.
I do have to say, one needs some uninterrupted time to learn this. If you don't have enough uninterrupted time in your life, then learning this would be tough indeed. For me, it took about 126 quality hours of (video) instruction. It was work - tasked by myself - and I was a tough taskmaster. Heh, heh, I didn't let myself get away with anything, because I knew all my tricks for evading "work".
Anyways, it might not work for you in your current circumstances, but I thought I'd let you know that learning this stuff is possible with a combination of both hard work and perseverance. At least that's my story. It's up to you to write your own story.
That sounds like the best advice anyone could offer. I dove into the deep end with FreeCad, tried to import an image and sketch over it, the revolve it to get a 3D shape.... Wasted 2 days, and learned nothing.... ::) .... I'm going to follow your advice, I hope I'm still married in a month.... ;D
Bob
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Bob.
Can you send me an example of your CAD X11 files?
I have no idea what format you can export those to so I'd like to see whatever you can export.
Even a saved file as an example.
I've spent years doing conversion work on 3D file formats for Games.
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LOL... in 30 years all you will have to do is think it and robots will make it.
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I'm not waiting that long (for the robots to make it), I'll make it sooner. Then we can fight off the robots...
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I sure can understand the sentiment @Insanity. I was that guy too. This stuff eluded me for 30 years - no joke. I tried off and on over decades to learn this, and it didn't happen. The only thing that worked for me was to work at it continuously, interrupted only by meals and the need to sleep. At least for me, any interruption (in the beginning) while learning this material simply set me backwards. Nothing was sticking in my dense pea brain.
Once I got the basic ideas (in a few days) then it was plodding through the material to learn the other stuff. Wasn't easy, but at least I started making progress. It was kind of motivating to get to the point of modeling something (simple) and then doing an export to stl. Think that was the 5th or 6th lesson. Thought to myself, hey this is pretty cool.
Not learning CAD, did set back my career. I regret not learning it earlier. But, that's water over the spillway, seeing as I am retired now. Can't fix the past.
I do have to say, one needs some uninterrupted time to learn this. If you don't have enough uninterrupted time in your life, then learning this would be tough indeed. For me, it took about 126 quality hours of (video) instruction. It was work - tasked by myself - and I was a tough taskmaster. Heh, heh, I didn't let myself get away with anything, because I knew all my tricks for evading "work".
Anyways, it might not work for you in your current circumstances, but I thought I'd let you know that learning this stuff is possible with a combination of both hard work and perseverance. At least that's my story. It's up to you to write your own story.
That sounds like the best advice anyone could offer. I dove into the deep end with FreeCad, tried to import an image and sketch over it, the revolve it to get a 3D shape.... Wasted 2 days, and learned nothing.... ::) .... I'm going to follow your advice, I hope I'm still married in a month.... ;D
Bob
Actually, I found tracing an image was the hardest lesson. The reason is that in the beginning one doesn't know how to close the curve. The dot has to change color to make the connection. If unconnected, the drawing is not a solid body, and cannot be revolved. Honestly, do a simpler example. I got nothing out of that lesson either. Or use a far simpler image to sketch. Ha ha, I tried to sketch a fighter jet image. What a mistake.
Later on, when I got better at it, I was able to trace over an image and scale it. That was kind of neat. Made a full set of prints based on an image. I had a carpenter friend make it, and it was donated to our church. It was a book tree for the library, whose branches were shelves.
One bit of advice - you will need breaks, plan for them. Maybe 10-15 minutes. But after they are done - get back to work! After a few days, or maybe a week, the lessons will seem to get easier.
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I am going to follow a group of Tutorials, and I was wondering which sets you guys have found easy to understand.... I have found these:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8otDF_C_fw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8otDF_C_fw)
The first one seems OK, but I was wondering how you learned?....
Bob
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You need "some" foundation to get started. In Freecad, that's making a sketch and constraining it.
You're likely past that already, and I would just start doing your projects...going to youtube when you hit stumbling blocks and looking for the specific thing.
First things I worked on were upgrades for my printer, some were simply "download and print", the spool holder was mostly a scratch design with the insert for the vertical extrusion being sliced off a downloaded model.
(https://i.imgur.com/FkKqYRAl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/U6wAdXDl.jpg)
JMO...the sooner you dive into doing your "own" modeling the better...it provides motivation and keeps things interesting. It will not be long before you'll be finding all sorts of uses for the printer.
(https://i.imgur.com/qie6BBkl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/OsxAZkul.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/6l7oj9Cl.jpg?1)
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I went with the series of videos on FreeCAD for Beginners by Adventures in Creation. Never made it through all of them, but got through more than a dozen of them. At that point, I was more than capable of learning on the job. What you end up learning is there's quite a few ways to get stuff done, but some ways are far easier than others! In the beginning, I had to replay the videos quite a few times, and even slow them down, to make sure I saw every move or change to get to the next step. After a while, I played them full speed and didn't have to replay so often, because I understood where things were.
For designs that may change a bit, (or haven't been fully thought out) I like to use spreadsheets, which are embedded with the design. Then I can simply change a value in the spreadsheet and the design automatically is redrawn.