Brushy Bill question on shooting coat
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Brushy Bill question on shooting coat
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Topic: Brushy Bill question on shooting coat (Read 6026 times))
larspawn
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 2468
larspawn
Real Name: Andrew
Brushy Bill question on shooting coat
«
on:
November 11, 2010, 08:10:02 AM »
Bill,
I found these on Champion's Choice:
http://www.champchoice.com/prod-CC_MEN_S_ISSF_R_W_B_CANVAS_SHOOTING_COAT___U_S__SIZE_42-2625.aspx
http://www.champchoice.com/prod-NRA_CORDURA_RIFLEMAN_SHOOTING_COAT___NAVY___SIZE_42-941.aspx
Confused. So would I not be allowed to use the second coat in an "official" air rifle shoot?
The second coat looks more adjustable for fit.
Thanks for your thoughts or recommendations as I do more research.
Andy
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Michigan
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SE Michigan
One Less Than Too Many!
Brushy Bill
Sharp Shooter
Posts: 507
Re: Brushy Bill question on shooting coat
«
Reply #1 on:
November 11, 2010, 12:08:12 PM »
Yes, that is the case Andy, the second coat is commonly called a "High Power Rifle Coat".
The one on the top is commonly called a "ISSF Coat" and is used in "Precision Air Rifle and
Smallbore Rifle". In your previous thread, I confused what you were calling a "canvas"
coat as one that is more of a green denim material. I was not referring to the ISSF coat
you have linked to when I said to avoid it. Sorry for the confusion.
Although, as I stated before, I have seen some club level matches that will
allow a high power coat to be used because most of the club shooters are
regular high power shooters. I think that at the local club level, you will find
most match directors very accommodating. Most are like I was and
more interested in seeing someone have the opportunity to shoot, and
have some fun. We never put any state or national records in jeopardy of being
broken.
Sorry if that confused you.
This is straight from section 1:16 from the rule book describing the coat
used in "Precision Air Rifle"
Jacket Closure –
Closure of the jacket must be only by non-adjustable means (e.g., buttons
or zippers).
The jacket must not overlap more than 100mm at closure. The jacket must hang
loosely on the wearer. To determine this, the jacket must be capable of being overlapped
beyond the normal closure by at least 70mm, measured from the center of the button to the
outside edge of the buttonhole."
Rule 4.1.5. is shown here, this is referring to back braces, weight lifting belts, and other garments
worn under clothing. This is one of the reasons that many shooters wear a type of "long johns" under
the shooting coats and pants. And more importantly, because they can fit the outer clothing tighter
to the body, by not having varying weights of clothing under the coat and pants due to season changes.
"
4.1.5 Use of Special Equipment
Any rifles, devices, equipment, accessories or apparel that could give a competitor an advantage
over others, that are not specifically approved in these Rules or that are contrary to
the spirit of these Rules are prohibited.
The use of any special devices, means or garments
that immobilize, provide artificial support or unduly reduce the flexibility of the competitor’s
legs, body or arms is prohibited.
The competitor is responsible for submitting equipment to
competition officials for inspection in cases where doubt exists. Competition Officials have
the right to examine the competitor’s equipment at any time to be sure it complies with these
Rules."
Please take a look at the "Sporter Class" this class was started specifically to provide
a lower budget way to shoot, no special coats, pants or shoes are allowed.
Although there are certain rules regarding the rifle. Again, to reduce the cost
of getting into competitions.
Although
"At competitions below the national championship level, competition directors may
authorize the use of other lighter, lower-cost air rifles provided that only .177 cal. pellets are fired
in them at velocities of less than 600 fps."
Sect. 1:10 pg. 11 of 68
Please be aware that all sanctioned air rifle matches are shot on a AR-5/10 type
target, the 10 ring is not actually a ring, it is a 0.040 (forty thousandths on an inch)
dot.
A .pdf file of the rule book can be found and saved to your computer here;
http://www.odcmp.com/3P/Rules.pdf
The main thing to be aware of is the availability of matches that you can attend.
By subscribing to this free e-magazine
http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/nra/ssusa_201011/#/0
you can get an idea of what is available near you. The matches are usually listed in the back pages.
Although this may not be a complete listing. When a match director submits a match schedule to the
NRA for sanctioning, they have the option to list their matches or not. So it is up to the director
to make sure that option is chosen.
Here is a link where you can sign up to receive this free monthly publication;
http://www.nrapublications.org/ssusa/
I have never received any spam from the organization or it's sponsors.
If you do find a match that you can attend, whether you can shoot or not, by all means go.
I have never been to club or match where someone would not let you try on a coat, or several
to see sizing. Many may, and usually do, offer the use of their equipment to a new shooter to use
and, may offer coaching just to get you started. That is the nice, and fun thing about
attending a local sanctioned match. The match director can allow things that, as long as it does
not interfere with the other shooters. Would not be allowed at the regional or national level.
I always allowed coaching for new shooters, usually in a second "Beginners Relay"
Hope some of this helps Andy, keep shooting and having fun doing it.
Don't hesitate if there are other questions. I will try to not write you
as essay. I love the shooting sports, and wish anyone interested could
have a chance to participate.
«
Last Edit: November 11, 2010, 12:29:30 PM by Brushy Bill
»
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larspawn
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 2468
larspawn
Real Name: Andrew
Re: Brushy Bill question on shooting coat
«
Reply #2 on:
November 11, 2010, 09:42:25 PM »
Bill,
Thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge with me. I really enjoy the quiet time shooting. I've been meaning to attend some local matches as one of my airgun buddies shoots in the Monday matches. When things slow down with the kids I will make it to one. Until then I'll keep learning and improving my game in the basement.
The information you've provided is awesome. I am really enjoying making my shooting sessions a bit more formal. Still looking for that elusive perfect score.
Andy
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Michigan
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One Less Than Too Many!
timegoat
Guest
Re: Brushy Bill question on shooting coat
«
Reply #3 on:
November 14, 2010, 05:51:27 PM »
Heh... my shooting coat is whatever keeps me warm. These days it's been a comfy Jac-Shirt. Hope that meets standards.
- Mark
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Brushy Bill
Sharp Shooter
Posts: 507
Re: Brushy Bill question on shooting coat
«
Reply #4 on:
November 16, 2010, 12:06:19 PM »
As long as it meets your standards, that is all
that matters.
For those that want to pursue shooting
at the local club level and beyond.
There will come a time where your scores
will plateau. All the practice, concentration
and focus on proper form that you can
muster is not going to improve them.
I think the Gamo targets used in these
forum matches are perfect. They are
both forgiving , and hard enough at the
same time. It has a generous 10-ring and
for those going for an increased x count
will have about all the challenge they need.
Having a shooting coat, and pants & shoes
for that matter, will not make you a good shooter.
But for those who have reached that plateau
and are looking for that tiny increase in scores
they are after. They become a necessity.
Simply because there is only so many things
the human mind and body can control at the same time.
The additional support that these garments
provide simply allows your mind and body to focus
more on the other aspects of producing a good shot.
For a very long time, I dismissed using a blinder on
my non shooting eye so that I could keep it open.
I tried the strip that mounts on the rear aperture.
I found it too distracting.
It was white, and it was hard for me to not see a
"white wash" in my sight picture. I colored it
black and it made my sight picture too dark.
One of the club members suggested I move it
closer to my eye, he cut a rimfire ammo box
apart and slid the piece of cardboard under the
brim of my hat so that it hung down and covered
my eye. It worked!! It seemed that it being closer
and the beige/tan color did not let enough light
in to "wash out" my sight picture. He then got
an eye patch from his shooting kit and I tried
it. It was like using the black blinder.
I used a piece of cardboard from then on.
(Usually cut the new ones from a cheerios box)
I cannot say that it increased my scores, but
not holding my eye closed did make me more
comfortable when sighting.
The additional support, and isolation from your
pulse that the coats and such provide does the
same thing, just for different muscles.
Enough of my rambling, just keep shooting and
having fun while doing it.
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timegoat
Guest
Re: Brushy Bill question on shooting coat
«
Reply #5 on:
November 16, 2010, 12:45:51 PM »
Interesting stuff Bill. I'm definitely at a plateau, but I'm still thinking my biggest issue is concentration. I shoot all matches as if they were Steroids. Load shoot, load shoot, load shoot. My first step to breaking through is gonna be slowing down, but if that doesn't cut it I might consider the box eye patch idea.
Dunno if you caught Top Shot on the History channel recently, but at least one of them had scotch tape over one the eyes of his shooting glasses. Seemed weird to me, but after reading your post and thinking about my own struggles with keeping one eye closed and staying relaxed, it kinda makes sense to me now.
When shooting with a scope, I prefer both eyes open. With my peep sight, that doesn't work so well. Hmmm... much to think about and experiment with. Having said all that, I'm something of a minimalist when it comes to shooting. The less specialty equipment I need, the better.
- Mark
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ac12
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 2333
Re: Brushy Bill question on shooting coat
«
Reply #6 on:
November 16, 2010, 02:03:24 PM »
Another thing about the non-aiming eye is balance.
If you close the non-aiming eye, I have a harder time keeping my balance.
Having some amount of light and being able to see the world in the peripheral vision seems to help me keep my balance easier.
I don't use a hat, but I do use a long strip of cardboard on the rear aperture that blocks the FORWARD vision of my non-aiming eye. That seems to work for me.
For AP, I use a scotch tape or post-it on the lens of my non-aiming eye.
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San Francisco Bay Area, California, USA
10 meter target Air Pistol and Air Rifle
Brushy Bill
Sharp Shooter
Posts: 507
Re: Brushy Bill question on shooting coat
«
Reply #7 on:
November 16, 2010, 05:47:09 PM »
Great observation Mark,
Taking the time to slow down and
making all the actions leading up to
the shot as deliberate as possible.
Will help your scores. The hardest thing
about training by yourself is to recognize
what you may be doing wrong, and doing
right.
So kudos to ya.
But don't feel like the lone ranger.
Many folks try to get the shot off as
quickly as possible. I think they do it
in an attempt to keep fatigue from
setting in. (not having to hold as long)
And it quickly becomes a habit.
Very common.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with being
a minimalist when equipment is concerned.
Whether you are shooting by yourself in the
basement for a target to post here. Or standing
on the line with 20 other shooters, you are only
shooting against yourself.
When shooting a forum match, you are not shooting
one, twenty round match. You have to think of it as
shooting 20, one round matches. We have to make each
one count. An easy way to do that is to have a "shot sequence"
I am sure you already have one. Whether you realize it or not.
If you break the sequence down, it will help you to slow things
down without causing any undue fatigue. It will also help
you pinpoint individual things that may be uncomfortable
or needs to be adjusted as far as your position goes.
This is what my sequence was when shooting the standing
position in both smallbore and high power rifle.
Once natrual point of aim was established, it was;
1: Four slow relaxing breaths. In slow, out slow.
2: Load the round.
3: Seat the rifle in the shoulder.
4: Find anchor point for left elbow on the body. (I shoot right handed)
5: Seat anchor point for the left hand. (I used a palm rest in smallbore,
but this can be a balled fist in front of the trigger guard, fingers extended into an
artillery hold, what ever is comfortable)
6: Find cheek weld.
7: Take short breath and hold.
8: Sight the rifle, and let it settle in.
9: Take up first stage of trigger.
10: When right, squeeze and break the shot with follow through.
11: Call the shot.
12: Bring the rifle down and check spotting scope and
compare to called shot.
If at any time something did not feel right, or the rifle
did not settle in before having to take another breath.
The sequence was stopped and started over.
You simply cannot afford to "force a shot".
Don't ever think of it as a failed attempt, but as
one more opportunity to produce a good shot.
We always shot under a time limit. I was always one
of the last one or two shooting.
By breaking the shot process down, it allows you to
place your self in what some shooters call "the bubble".
This is a state of mind where you are more focused.
And for me, it was to the point where I did not notice
the guy firing a 7mm magnum 2 1/2 feet to my right
or left. But would hear the range officer call out a
command, without a megaphone.
It's a cool place to be. And easier to achieve than most folks
realize.
«
Last Edit: November 16, 2010, 05:54:37 PM by Brushy Bill
»
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larspawn
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 2468
larspawn
Real Name: Andrew
Re: Brushy Bill question on shooting coat
«
Reply #8 on:
November 16, 2010, 06:35:46 PM »
Guys this is excellent discussion.
Shooting is almost like meditation to me. I have actually found I shoot tighter groups when Im not even thinking or conscious of the score of each shot. Just shoot them focusing in on form and what feels right. Amazing that without looking can tell what is a good shot and what is not.
While I don't think I have plateaued I do like the idea of establishing my routine and what feels right with a coat on. That way I won't have to relearn what feels right in the future. Might as well start there now and practice, practice, practice.
«
Last Edit: November 16, 2010, 06:41:40 PM by larspawn
»
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Michigan
------------------------------------------------------------------
SE Michigan
One Less Than Too Many!
Brushy Bill
Sharp Shooter
Posts: 507
Re: Brushy Bill question on shooting coat
«
Reply #9 on:
November 16, 2010, 06:55:57 PM »
Shooting 10-15 shots using a repeatable,
set routine. Is better than shooting
a 60 shot practice session without having
a set routine. It really enforces the mental
aspect of the game.
The main thing is to enjoy the game.
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timegoat
Guest
Re: Brushy Bill question on shooting coat
«
Reply #10 on:
November 16, 2010, 09:17:27 PM »
Took a break from painting and shot a 10yd match today, slowed down, and kinda analyzed what I was doing a little bit. My routine seems to go like this:
Load pellet.
Put left hand under Diana (balance point on both my 34s).
Look at sky, trees, smell the air.
Put rifle to shoulder.
Line up sight roughly on target.
Safety off.
3 deep slow breaths letting the rifle rise and fall with each breath.
Inhale and let rifle rise onto target.
Pull first stage of trigger to resistance.
Focus on front sight blade, when it drifts over bull, squeeze.
Do nothing for a few seconds.
Repeat.
I'm sure there's more going on, but I found when I really stuck with that I hit mostly 10s. You're right about it being 20 single shot matches. Each shot counts as an individual and has to be treated as such. Oh! 190/200 - 3x. Had a couple not focused moments at the start.
Larspawn, you're right, it really is like meditation.
- Mark
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Brushy Bill
Sharp Shooter
Posts: 507
Re: Brushy Bill question on shooting coat
«
Reply #11 on:
November 16, 2010, 10:42:19 PM »
Cool man!!
If there is anything to do with shooting
that I like better than doing it, is to see
others make improvements.
As far as the "Had a couple not focused moments at the start."
That can happen at anytime during the match.
The key is to try and recognize it and stop the process
before the shot breaks. Easier said than done, but possible.
Not to be confused with a "pulled shot" that can be diagnosed
by trying to call your shots.
Just keep using a routine.
Your routine.
It does not have to please
anyone but you. (can even include a few steps from the hokey poky
if that is what works for ya, as long as it does not increase the heart
rate too much
)
I actually did that once when pulling range officer duty at the club.
Right before the load command, I called "You put your left foot in,
you put your left foot out," they actually got a kick out of it instead
of giving me one for it. (Fun bunch of guys, I miss them since I moved away)
Gave them a minute or two to get back in match mode afterwords.
One of the things I liked about smallbore, there was always
a sighter bull on the target, and sometimes two.
Was nice to put a few rounds down range before the record
shots, and anytime in between. (especially to check changing
wind conditions when outdoors)
Since these matches are casual, would not think it would ruffle
too many feathers if an extra target was used for sighters only.
At least may help mentally to know you can make a non record
shot if you felt the need. And you can take a few before the record
shots without having to completely get out of form to put up the
record target. Depends on your set up I guess.
In high power, you got two shots each time you changed distances.
Some matches, you did not even get those two. Go from 200 to 300
or from 300 to 600 yards, first shot is for record. (actually the first
shot at 200 was for record too)
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Brushy Bill question on shooting coat