Sidelever breech build for 7/8” tube

[Motorhead]

Just finding this thread .... Sorry If something I had said was a negative to your creative process, was never my intent. Generally i share my experience/s on a given subject sharing what learned to save others from taking wrong turns or wasted effort.

Respectfully,
Scott S

[jackssmirkingrevenge]

Updated animation, there was a little glitch in the first iteration that was bothering me:

[sb327]

Just finding this thread .... Sorry If something I had said was a negative to your creative process, was never my intent. Generally i share my experience/s on a given subject sharing what learned to save others from taking wrong turns or wasted effort.

Respectfully,
Scott S

I’m not sure exactly which time your talking about?

The time mentioned in this thread is here
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=178479.0

You basically attempted to negate every single GENERALIZATION I made, proceeded to claim I had not done my homework and then left. Without offering anything in the way of insight into what my actual thread was about.

Or the most recent time here

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=175248.0

Where you pointed out that I basically had too many dynamic orings for the valve to be consistent when I had already stated that consistency with that design was awesome. Again leaving without offering any possible solution for stated problems.


I respect your work and appreciate you sharing it. It has helped me a lot to get where I am. I believe I have shown that respect multiple times across my posting here. I will continue to credit your work.

I would just appreciate if you would give me a little credit as well and try to understand my ideas.

Thanks for your reply,
Dave

[Rob M]

dave ,from the animation , it appears that the balance chamber is partially floating if struct from behind , in the sense it can allow the spool to bottom out and still function.. is this correct ?? if so , its actually quite interesting

[jackssmirkingrevenge]

it appears that the balance chamber is partially floating if struct from behind , in the sense it can allow the spool to bottom out and still function.. is this correct ??

That is how I understood it, a balanced valve that can be cracked open by a weaker hammer, but once it's open it essentially behaves like a normal poppet, moving as one part.

[Rob M]

which makes a great deal of sense since the cracking force is the issue , moreso than the dwell .

[sb327]

That is exactly what it does. You can hit as hard as you want and nothing bottoms out.
(Yes, within reason)

But if you hit it light, the large vent allows quick closing.

Now to be honest, I have not yet got to test all the features of this valve. I am not going to say that something ugly might not rear it’s head.

Dave

[Rob M]

Dave , you have a lot of good ideas.. Well , lets put it this way , a lot of people have a lot of ideas, But having the machine skills to execute  AND  the good ideas is a rare combo ..
Of all the challenges in airgun machining and design , reinventiing the valve is by far the hardest.( i still want to see how the umarex hammer valve works since we know its a Qev that self closes somehow )
Jack also has some awesome  ideas that he can pull off ..

[sb327]

One thing that does have to be within a certain region is the valve travel before bv bottoms out.

Bob expressed some concern about that in the other thread and I made that adjustable. I had thought originally as small as possible but he pointed out, basically, that it needs some movement to afford time for the chamber to fill. He was correct and I had to increase that distance from my original .020” guesstimate to around 3x that. Iirc

I think for those first trying to build a bv, this design does seem to be forgiving.

Just so there is no confusion if looking at the animation and comparing to my actual valve. Scott (Motorhead) pointed out in one of his threads that making the forward end of the bv the piston and the poppet the cylinder, you take advantage of the strength of materials as well as afford a better spot for your oring. Mine is made like Scott’s and the animation depicts it reversed. The concept is the same.

Dave

Jacks got a really fantastic idea I can’t get out of my head because I want to try it!!!!
I’ve even sketched it out and trying to figure out the easiest machining operations.

I’ve got too many unfinished guns/ideas as it stands!!!

Now you bring up the hammer. I just figured it was like the af? Is it not?

[Rob M]

nope .. takes 2 lbs of force to cock the gun and it dumps 105cc HPA chamber tucked away  in the stock per shot.. So its not a tophat design or anything similar , its something new .. Some blend of a QEV and a typical BV.. Ive made a few balanced designs , none were a huge success, mostly because i tend to " overbalance " looking for the lightest possible unseating force. I made one where  it would randomly go semi automatic.. that was interesting and quite startling. MY interest now is more spool related with no stem , where the seat force is almost zero but has an oring on the tapered seat.. Gotta get back to it , had some early success a few weeks ago bbut it was hard to externally trigger ( similar design to your electric solenoid gun)

[sb327]

I’ll have to see if I can figure out this hammer design. I love new ideas and out of the box thinking.

Your soft seal poppet idea I believe is achievable. I will enjoy seeing how it works.


My first valve attempt on here was a failure but for me a success because I learned a lot of the basics along the way. Still learning.

Dave

[Rob M]

the 2 tapers are aluminum , but the oring creates the seal , heres a pic of it early on , both sides of the spool are sealed ,but the bias is closing force + spring

20201015_152244 by murphyrobert9, on Flickr

SO it still takes a hammer strike to PULL it open, but that same hammer has to release the Pullstud also or its a dump valve

[Rob M]

20201016_092157 by murphyrobert9, on Flickr

maybe this makes more sense , but doesnt show the oring in the taper.

[sb327]

Does the valve travel inside the round bar to the right?

Dave

[Rob M]

Does the valve travel inside the round bar to the right?

Dave

yes , it has an oring roove  inside the tube to the right , that seals the spool .. SO the poppet side of the spool is .440 and the right side is .375 sliding through a static seal. the " pullstud" to the far right is connected directly to the spool.. SO very little force is needed to unseat the valve , reseating is the spring and the slight diamter differential  ( the air fed into the chamber being restricted also aids in the valve closing

[Motorhead]

I will continue to watch the progress and say no more.  Having been at home for the last 2 weeks with COVID-19 being exposed by a dear friend who did not know he had it, and His passing this morning from complications, I'm in no mind set to elaborate further.

Best of luck on this project !! wish i was thinking clear enough to follow along and offer positive encouragement or suggestions.

Scott

[jackssmirkingrevenge]

the 2 tapers are aluminum , but the oring creates the seal , heres a pic of it early on , both sides of the spool are sealed ,but the bias is closing force + spring

Very nice, I see a P17 valve next to it, inspiration?

i still want to see how the umarex hammer valve works since we know its a Qev that self closes somehow

If it is a QEV then surely it can't be that much of a mystery?  By not having the piston as a perfect seal the pilot chamber should refill as soon as the pilot valve closes and reseal the outlet.



Here is a very early ( 2010! ) prototype valve I had made with the same concept using a schrader valve as a pilot and hooked up to a 100 psi air line:



The piston was a thick rubber disk fitted loosely in the cylinder with a weak spring to reset it.

Having been at home for the last 2 weeks with COVID-19 being exposed by a dear friend who did not know he had it, and His passing this morning from complications, I'm in no mind set to elaborate further.

Sorry for your loss Scott and best wishes for your own affliction, here's to hoping you pull through unscathed.

[sb327]

I will continue to watch the progress and say no more.  Having been at home for the last 2 weeks with COVID-19 being exposed by a dear friend who did not know he had it, and His passing this morning from complications, I'm in no mind set to elaborate further.

Best of luck on this project !! wish i was thinking clear enough to follow along and offer positive encouragement or suggestions.

Scott

Understood.

We have all been effected by this &^^& in a negative way.

Hope you stay healthy.

Sincerely,
Dave

[sb327]

On the qev, can the exhaust run down the barrel? Have the minor poppet seat to a throat in major poppet, maybe?

Would make it a pull stem rather than push and may even afford some adjustability by how far the minor poppet came out because the major will be chasing it. ?

Interesting

Dave

[Rob M]

Jack youre correct about the p17 baseline idea.. When i made a few p17 pcps , I couldnt tune them to close , so i branched off ... As for the QEV hammer valve, I know people have complained about a blast from the breech area during firing , SO it very well could be aa piloted QEV .. Im guessing the gun is plumbed a bit differently though , as the tank is directly behind the breeech.. no one has opened one up to verify as of yet