GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: nervoustrigger on September 06, 2016, 01:00:44 AM
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Hey guys, I was feeling under the weather today so I spent some time working on an article I had started a while back. It is an introduction to PCP airguns for new owners and people thinking about taking the plunge.
Here it is for you to critique. Please let me know if there are topics you would like to see added or expanded, or if you see something incorrect.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/756b5ndvtdtt7hq/intro%20to%20PCP%20-%20rev1.pdf?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/756b5ndvtdtt7hq/intro%20to%20PCP%20-%20rev1.pdf?dl=0)
[edit: new link - minor updates to document]
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Very enjoyable article!
The nylon string diy pull through bore cleaner idea is awesome! I will be making one as soon as I get home from work tomorrow!
For expansion ideas, one thing I have been doing to make fills easier is to feed the pump with pressurised air from the my shop compressor. Usually I leave some pressure in the compressor beforehand and bleed off the moisture (after giving it some time to collect) from the valve at the bottom of the tank a couple of times to ensure the air going into the gun is nice and dry. I also use one of those little harbor freight dessicant filters in between the shop compressor and the pump. I generally have the regulator of the shop compressor set around 50 psi... At least so far the pump has held together pretty well for the last six months or so since I have been doing this...
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Good job Jason! I like it! Thumbs up!
Taso
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Great article Jason, well done! Maybe this can be stickied or added to the GTA library.
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That a great read sir, especially good for the new guys, will see what the boss has to say, would be a good addition to the library. David
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Enjoyed the read Jason. " Thumbs Up "
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Very informative!
Thanks!
-Whirly
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Thanks, guys!
Be sure to let me know if you have some constructive criticism or suggestions. Patrick, I've noted yours.
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Nice read for this newb to air rifles and given PCP is going to be where I dip my toe in from the get go, this was advantageous.
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Great article, I am your target audience and you answered ALL the questions I had.
Thank you
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Hey, thanks guys. I really do appreciate the ol' tip of the hat. :D
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Really, really good article. I have been a shooter for a lot of years, but I am an air gunning novice. I am so new to PCP that mine is still in the mail.
I have been scouring the web researching to buy and then for the basic skills and knowledge required for PCP. I picked up several good tips from your article. I promise never to put another MIL rod down the bore of an air rifle. You probably saved me a buck and a half on a pump by telling me how NOT to destroy it.
I think this article should e stickied here with the title "BEFORE YOU BUY A PCP" and added to the library.
Kudos on an excellent article.
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Excellent article, Jason. My PCP is in transit. Having shot springers for a while now, some of this, I already knew, but what I didn't could have killed my new rifle. Thanks for taking the time to put this to paper... er... bits and bytes.
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The reason I found this article in this place is that I've recently been drawn to the "Darkside". I will likely make the leap this winter.
This article has been very useful to me. Particularly some of the maintenance aspects such as degas, filtering the pump, etc. Thanks for a handy reference document with lots of information
in a single location. Very interesting and helpful.
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Much obliged to you guys for your kind words. Just to lend some perspective, I bought my first PCP without even an understanding what the bleed screw does on a hand pump. :) So I'm very glad to hear it's helping prospective PCP owners.
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Very good read Jason and I also like the weedeater line pull thru to clean the barrel.
Mike
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I'm trying to find some information on a benjerman maximus anyone have one how they shoot in22 cal. I'm looking to get into a pcp gun and not spend a lot of money just in case i don't like it.
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air max, Here is a review that I started when I received my Maximus .22. Others have added to the thread. Enjoy reading.
June 2016 The Benjamin Maximus .22 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=110457.0)
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Well &^^&!! Work blocks Dropbox... :'(
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Thank you for that write up. New to PCP, my springer came with a cleaning kit and rod. I won't be using it any more. Well i didn't have inter web back in the 80's either.
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Thanks for that article. Switching from Trail NP2 to a PCP gun. Trying to do it right. Just couldn't get the feel for that NP2.
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Thanks for the great article. I'm getting ready to make the leap from springers and nitro-pistons to a PCP and the "dark side", so I've been trying to learn all I can. Your article was a big help. One thing I've noticed around the shop over the years is that WD-40 will dry to a gummy mess. I've been told not to use it on any type of firearm. Has it worked OK for you?
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Hi Robert and welcome to the GTA Forum.
I use regular "3 in 1” type oil on the outside of my firearm and airguns. On the inside or any place where the lubricant may come in contact with seals or o-rings, I use a pure silicone grease. The silicone grease can be obtained at dive shops or auto parts houses.
Good luck with your first PCP. [You noticed how I said “first”! ;D [size=78%]] [/size]
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Hi Robert, the only place I would recommend using WD-40 on an airgun is to clean the bore. It works well for that purpose and in fact is the preferred cleaner of Mike Niksch of who builds the wildly successful Thomas benchrest rifles. Follow with a couple of dry cotton patches and there's nothing to gum up.
For O-rings, most of them in an airgun will be static (non-moving). Silicone grease is what you want to apply when servicing those types of O-rings. Diver's grease (SCUBA shops) or dielectric grease (auto parts stores) is good for this purpose.
For dynamic (sliding) O-rings such as those that seal the bolt probe or the many in a high pressure pump, silicone oil is what you want. 30W "silicone shock oil" (for RC cars) or pure silicone oil used to lubricate treadmills is good.
Silicone is fine in high pressure areas where you would not want petroleum-based lubricants due to the possibility of detonation. However avoid getting it where there is metal-to-metal contact. Silicone is a terrible lubricant for that.
For lubricating metal parts such as the bolt and hammer, a light oil such as 3-in-1 oil or pneumatic tool oil works well and won't adversely affect your rifle's consistency between hot and cold days. If you are concerned about dust and dirt contamination, you may instead want to burnish graphite powder into the surfaces. Whether using a wet or dry lube, most guns will benefit from having the parts deburred and smoothed first.
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Excellent piece! That should somehow be tacked in such a way that every new air gun shooter (like me!) can find it! As I was very interested in buying a 78 or 79 for my first air rifle, I wonder how much tweaking was required to get those groups? No one I shoot with has any experience with those, and suggested they wouldn't be accurate enough for 10M 3-position shooting. I think your targets say otherwise!
Thanks again.
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Jason
Outstanding article, Very nice and easy to understand, with lots of tricks and tips,
I noticed that you did not touch on Co2, is it because it (Co2) is neither fish or fowl, or something in between?
Co2 is confusing to me, (being new to this arena), and where it stands in the AR scene,
this fuel type would be considered as unregulated, correct?
Being it's such a common fuel type available, I would believe that it also confuses others new to AR's etc.
Thank you,
Don
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Don, CO2 acts like a regulated PCP with one difference.... The operating pressure, and hence the resulting velocity and energy is temperature dependant.... Just like in a regulated PCP, which has constant pressure until the reservoir drops below the setpoint.... as long as their is CO2 liquid in the tank the pressure stays constant as the liquid boils off to produce CO2 gas, which is what you shoot.... If the temperature stays constant, so does the power....
The reason that CO2 velocity drops as you use up the liquid is that the tank cools as you shoot.... If you shoot slowly enough that the tank can absorb heat from its surroundings at the same rate as it cools, the velocity stays constant.... Shoot too fast, the cooling dominates, and the temperature, pressure, velocity and energy all drop.... It's not really a fuel problem, but a rate of fire problem....
You can actually tune a CO2 gun so that the valve "self-regulates" over a 30-40 deg. range of temperature to even out the velocity, and if you do, that velocity is relatively independent of rate of fire as well.... Alternately, you can get a regulator set to a pressure equal to the CO2 pressure at the lowest temperature you will be shooting at, and then you have a regulated CO2 setup.... Either procedure will reduce the power to what your gun can achieve at the setpoint pressure (which might be only 500-600 psi).... just like in a regulated PCP.... which is lower than what it can get without the regulator....
Bob
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Nicely written intro. I wish it had been available when I picked up my first PCP.
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As I was very interested in buying a 78 or 79 for my first air rifle, I wonder how much tweaking was required to get those groups? No one I shoot with has any experience with those, and suggested they wouldn't be accurate enough for 10M 3-position shooting. I think your targets say otherwise!
Well, both my .177 and .22 rifles have been worked over pretty thoroughly...smoothed the internals, the trigger group, and the barrel. They have given me many, many sub-MoA groups on both my 25 and 43 yard targets. That's scoped, of course, and I suspect they would be rather boring at 10 yards shooting the dots off the tops of the letter i. When you speak of 10m duty, I presume you are talking about aperture sights so expectations would be a bit different but suffice it to say I think a QB is up to the task, particularly if you put a little elbow grease into it. However if you aren't a tinkerer, you may be disappointed. Invariably there will be something that will need to be addressed when you're talking about a $100 rifle. Not that the same isn't true of a $400 - $500 rifle in many cases but your odds are improved. There's a vast amount of knowledge in the GTA community and lots of folks are very giving of their time to help other airgunners along so if you run into any problems, you have a good resource here.
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Terry, Don, David,
Thank you guys for the positive comments! That's my payment for writing this sort of stuff so I really appreciate it.
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Hi Jason,
Thanks much for your reply, and yes, both the 10-meter and 50-foot shooting I intend to do will be with aperture sights. I'd like to think of myself as a not-totally-unskilled tinkerer, but have a healthy respect of those who actually design things and make them function, so tread lightly where I don't know my way. I find it fun to repair things rather than replace, and re-purpose rather than re-buy.
On a slightly different topic, can the QB78 or AR2078 rifles be retrofitted in any way to use a power source other than the 12g "powerlets"? Compressed air would be my first preference, but bulk CO2 would be an advantage over the throw-away powerlets.
I'm still wrestling with the decision of what to buy for my initial airgun, but the information you and others here are providing is helping considerably; thanks very much for your time and sharing your experience and knowledge!
Thanks again, and Happy Holidays to you and yours,
Terry
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Terry, if you want the temperature independence of high pressure air (HPA), have a look at the QB79. Simply screw on a Ninja regulated tank ($60) and away you go.
From there, you can explore the many mods to improve shot
count or energy, tweak the trigger, etc. Just ask if you have questions :)
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As a newbie, I found this article to be very informative and valuable. Thanks
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As a "seasoned" airgun hunter, I too found this article to be informative and valuable. Well done, Jason. Your article has a very professional look to it and I think all levels of air gunners can find it helpful!
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Another Newbie thanking you for your time creating this resource.
I'm excited to move in the direction of PCP and with the information unselfishly shared here my learning curve will be shorter and ( cheaper ).
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Jason,
As a newb, And still waiting on my PCP to arrive (Tracking says tomorrow! YEA). Thank you for taking the time to write and publish the doc.
I found it very useful and Im sure it will act like the North Star for me at least until I can navigate on my own.
-Sam
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Lots of good information, thanks
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Read it, loved it. THANKS for answering most of my questions and even some questions that I didn't know I had....
Well done.
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Thanks for writing this. It was an enjoyable and informative article about PCP weapons.
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Thank you for the article! You answered a lot questions that I had not even thought of yet. Im going in the PCP direction after shooting a 2400kt in my back yard and loving it. Fall Is here with cooler temperatures so I need to move towards PCP. Now I need to figure out what I want for a pcp gun.
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Thank you for the article! I`m looking to go to PCP`s next and I needed a overview on the subject. 2 thumbs up!
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Many thanks for your article. I'm old/new to airguns and floundering as I try to fill my PCP with an air pump. Much appreciated.
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Thanks for the great article. I have my first PCP ordered and waiting for it to arrive. Your article helps with many of my questions.
Wayne
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another thank you :)
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Well written and informative. Thank you sir!
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That was a good read. The nylon sting cleaner just solved a problem for me, thank you..
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Expecting my first pcp to arrive in about two weeks. Nice read. Thanks!
Went from break barrels, to CO2 to pcp....this must be the normal progression of this addiction, which runs parallel to my addiction to mountain bikes: started out with a $400 bike, ended up on a $2,300 bike, and also surf boards: $100 pawn store used foamy, $300 brand new surf shop foamy, $770 Surf shop hand made custom glass board.
I'd seek therapy for this addiction, but that money would be better spent on another gun, surfboard or bike.
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Hey guys, I was feeling under the weather today so I spent some time working on an article I had started a while back. It is an introduction to PCP airguns for new owners and people thinking about taking the plunge.
Here it is for you to critique. Please let me know if there are topics you would like to see added or expanded, or if you see something incorrect.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/756b5ndvtdtt7hq/intro%20to%20PCP%20-%20rev1.pdf?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/756b5ndvtdtt7hq/intro%20to%20PCP%20-%20rev1.pdf?dl=0)
[edit: new link - minor updates to document]
First-Class article, Jason! Are you a writer by trade?
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Thank you guys for all the positive comments!
Charlie, there is a fair amount of technical writing involved in my job so I do get some practice there.
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Thanks Jason. I have been thinking of making the PCP jump. Your information is well done and so helpful. It will come down to the most economical quality brand to start out with. Thanks again to you and all who have contributed to this thread with their comments. Merry Christmas
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Thanks much for this article. Answered a few questions I didn’t know I had. Specifically was looking for cleaning the barrel info. Your article very helpful and glad I read it when I did. I did NOT run a wire brush down my new mrod barrel, whew!!, but I might have had I not read this. Will use the trimmer cord trick and kroil. Thank you
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Thanks for the information, those of us that are new to PCP need all the help we can get. Thanks again for your effort and time to share knowledge.
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Well written and informative just what I needed to start learning about the two PCP rifles I have. How can you tell if it's a regulated gun? These are custom guns and I know very little on the history of them. I need to start with cleaning them up a little. Living on the water next to a swamp and abandoned by the former user they have minor rusting I would like to address. One has lambswool fibers all adhered to the checkering. Not sure if someone had used cleaning products that softened the finish on the stock and the lambswool was from cleaning or gun rest. So much to learn but this site has plenty of great info just have to go thru each thread and learn what I can.
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Very good information to have as I am a beginner to pcp. My neighbor gave me a Beeman chief totally disassembled, all the parts in a bag. Figured out valve was bad. Got parts & I'm impressed with this rifle. This one is going to my Dad for pest control. I'll be getting another for myself, but not sure what to get. Maybe another Beeman or something else under $400. It's so nice to shoot & not destroy another scope. Thanks for the great article.
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Great article with many tidbits of knowledge. Can also say the same of the replies. This is why I came to this forum.
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Newbie here,
My Dirty Diana died for the last time and am now making first foray into the DarkSide
I have found this to be a great continued resource, Sir
Thanks for putting it all together and sharing
Take care and please keep up the good work
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Still a great article after all the years since it was written. Just got my first PCP today and need to know the basics.
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Thanks a lot nervoustrigger