.25 talon P , efficiency tune tips and tricks?

[SwampHunter]

After reading about how great these little carbines are I finally got one and am trying to go about getting more shots. Looks like it does best with the powerwheel adjusted almost all the way down? I have read about a tophat o ring mod but am not sure the size oring needed or where it goes. Also answers seem to be all over the place about the thread size for a larger bottle? 

[BadFishHagDog]

The "powerband" on all AF airguns is going to be in the med-high range on the power wheel. Around setting 8. Setting the power wheel to the lower end will get you a few more shots, but with much less shot-to-shot consistency (unless you use the micrometer tank) and with far less power. As I understand it, springs are just more consistent at higher compression. Too high a setting wastes air and makes more noise. A chronograph will tell you the ideal setting for a given pellet. I shoot JSB 33.95gr Exact King Heavy MK2 at setting 8.16. The .16 is simply for ease of memory (8+8). The fine adjustment makes little difference.

As the TalonP is designed to be a squirrel smasher, a thumper thumper, a badger basher, as opposed to a plinker or target pistol, shot count is not the primary concern. That said, it's a fun shooter and the small TalonP bottle does not provide a lot of range time. For me the best solution was to get a Condor bottle. This tank roughly triples the full power shot count. There are supposedly some differences between the Condor and TalonP valves, but I find they produce essentially the same velocity and POI at the same power wheel setting, after a bit of top hat calibration. This gives you a range/plinking/pesting tank, and a lighter field tank for acquiring dinner. Or just leave the Condor tank on if you don't want to fiddle with differing LOP and buttstock positions. I shoot my TalonSS and my TalonP (both tanks) without the butt assembly. For me, resting the end of the tank on top of my collarbone gives an excellent cheek weld and eye alignment and is much more comfortable than the butt plate. This happens to be ideal for my body shape but will not be so for every body. Try it out.

I can't tell you the valve/tank thread sizes, but someone here knows them for sure. Or ask Tony at TalonTunes. I do know the TalonP uses a different thread size from the others, and you cannot move the valve from the small tank to the larger tank. A larger aftermarket CF tank will give more shots, but you still have to fill it to the same pressure, not a higher pressure, as the AF tanks. The valve stem is not designed to handle the 4500+psi you can stuff into a CF tank and would likely fail eventually from the excess force needed to crack the valve open under that pressure. The short barrel is not going to make better use of that higher pressure anyhow. This brings you back around to the Condor bottle, which is more durable than a CF bottle anyway.

The o-ring trick never seemed to me to make much difference. Maybe 1 more shot at the same FPS. You would remove the top hat and place 1 or 2 o-rings over the valve stem and then replace the top hat. The ID of the o-rings should match the diameter of the valve stem, and they must be fairly thick to provide the cushion needed and not slip over each other if using 2 stacked o-rings. The size info is certainly here on GTA somewhere so just do some searches or just experiment. Experimenting will teach you more.

AirForce is very good at testing their designs, so they are nearly ideal out of the box, unless you want to hot-rod the thing with a longer barrel, stronger valve stem, higher pressure, etc. They are aware of the o-ring trick, and used it on the Edge 10m rifle valve. If it made enough difference that they could claim a higher shot count for marketing purposes, they probably would have done it themselves.

I hope some of my rambling will be of use to you. Happy thumping!

Jared

[Berserkeley Mike]

If I may add to Jared's excellent comments and suggestions, I played around with different bottles, top hat orifices and barrel lengths on my Condor.  I found the O-ring mod helped make the shot velocity consistent at the lower power wheel settings (eg. 2), but only when the hammer weight was installed.  (The hammer weight is a metal ring forward of the breech slide).

So that brings up the hammer weight.  I find that with a larger valve/top hat orifice, it works better with the hammer weight.  But if the orifice is smaller, then removing the weight allows more adjustability through the power wheel.  If at your lowest power setting you still see consistent velocity, then try removing the hammer weight (look up disassembling the gun if you haven't before).

So that brings up smaller orifices.  A smaller orifice will give you more shots, usually with less power.  Where can you get a smaller orifice?  If your top hat is the 2-part Hi-flo type (like two nuts on a threaded tube with an o-ring between them, came with two little crescent wrenches), then you can install a smaller orifice from Airforce's Ring-loc kit (available from Pyramyd or Airforce).  If your top hat looks one-piece with one or two tiny allen screws setting it in place on a threaded valve stem tube, then Talontunes has a Quick Change Top hat with different sized inserts for more or less power.  One prys out the stock valve stem and pushes in the Quick Change valve stem.  Unfortunately, it looks like Talontunes is out of that item at the moment.

A Condor bottle is a great idea, but if your current setup shoots too hot (fast), then a Condor bottle might also shoot too hot, as a .25 bottle has a huge orifice (~0.232"), which might even be bigger than your current orifice.  A Talon bottle has a smaller orifice (~0.166"), and it looks like a .177 Talon has an even smaller orifice (~0.123?).  Maybe a .177 or .22 Condor bottle will have a smaller orifice too?  So either have a good talk with someone at Airforce before you buy or get a Ring-loc kit with that Condor bottle and you can change orifices as you please.

Yet another option if you shoot in warm weather is to get Airforce's CO2 adapter and paintball bottles of CO2.  A 12 ounce CO2 bottle will give over 500 shots and even with the 12" barrel I see at least 16 ft# on a warm day.

Hope this helps a little.

Mike

[SwampHunter]

Thank you guys for the help, seems like these are a little more complicated than the crosmans to "tune". I saw the top hat kit and guess it will be as good of a place to start as any from what I gathered from you guys.

[jmohme]

I found a paintball bottle on ebay that was just over 100 cc larger than the bottle that came on my TalonP.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/313587282237

The threads were different so I had to find an adapter.  Unfortunately that was over two years ago, and I do not recall where I got the adapter or what the thread size and pitch was.
I also did the oring behind the top hat. The o ring I use was a Cummins diesel fuel jumper o ring.  I tried several different ones that o ring was the one that actually seemed to help.
 I can get 25 to 30 useable shots out of mine with the power wheel at between 7 and 8

[SwampHunter]

That would be good on shot count, I like at least 20. I like to shoot lol, even if its just pecans!