Thank you to our advertisers!







Author Topic: Air Arms T200 Front sight mount, with integral AIR STRIPPER  (Read 276 times))

Offline subscriber

  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 5281
  • yes
Some recent projects inspired me to 3D CAD model the Air Arms T200 (CZ200) front sight mount.  I then created a version that adds a functional air stripper.  See images below, with print file.   In this case, a two stage air stripper that looks a bit like a howitzer muzzle brake.

I can create an S200 version without the sight dovetail.  Also, I can add .22 versions, with and without sight dovetails.  This version is .177.

The print file will generate a threaded hole for the M4 x 0.5 mm retention screw.  I left the thread tight, so chasing it with a tap is advised.

The STL print file for the part shown, is the first file in the attachment list, directly below.  The part must be placed on the printer platen as shown, or it will not print properly.   Turn supports off.  Print at 100% density.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2022, 10:32:34 AM by subscriber »
  • USA

Offline subscriber

  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 5281
  • yes
Re: Air Arms T200 Front sight mount, with integral AIR STRIPPER
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2022, 04:05:23 AM »
Muzzle brake Version 1, above looked a little dainty in vertical stiffness, so I added material back to help with that resulting in Version 2.   See images below

The material I added stays within the original stock part OD and length.  So the casual observer might not notice the sight base now incorporates a functional air stripper / brake.

Version 2 lifts the sight dovetail, such that it just falls within the OD of the original sight base OD.  That raises the front sight about 2 mm from stock; which should be within rear sight adjustment range.

The stock part and Version 1 of the brake have a flat bottom, to clear the T200's removable air cylinder.  I kept that clearance, but added material such the flat is turned into a curve.  A small change, but material far from the center line helps a lot with making parts stiffer, to avert potential vertical droop.


EDIT:  After struggling to attach the STL file, I managed to ZIP it - posted in reply #2 below.

 
« Last Edit: June 15, 2022, 04:27:31 AM by subscriber »
  • USA

Offline subscriber

  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 5281
  • yes
Re: Air Arms T200 Front sight mount, with integral AIR STRIPPER
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2022, 04:06:25 AM »
V2 STL is 2700 kB.  The max is over 3200 kB, but I system states STL is too large.  So I will try to compress the file...

Success:  ZIP file containing STL is attached.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2022, 04:13:59 AM by subscriber »
  • USA

Offline subscriber

  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 5281
  • yes
Re: Air Arms T200 Front sight mount, with integral AIR STRIPPER
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2022, 04:52:40 AM »
Version 3 of this Brake deletes the front sight dovetail.  So, V3 turns the AA S200 "brake" into a brake; while retaining the rounded air tank clearance of V2, over the stock flat bottom.

STL for V3 is attached directly below, as a ZIP file to stay below GTA file size limits:
  • USA

Offline subscriber

  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 5281
  • yes
Re: Air Arms T200 Front sight mount, with integral AIR STRIPPER
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2022, 07:21:09 AM »
I created a .22 caliber version of this air stripper for the AA S200.  It has a curved air tank clearance cut underneath, and no front sight dovetail.  Else, the envelope is the same as the stock "muzzle brake".   See images below.

STL file is attached at the bottom of the list of attachments to this post:

« Last Edit: June 15, 2022, 07:31:28 AM by subscriber »
  • USA

Offline subscriber

  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 5281
  • yes
Re: Air Arms T200 Front sight mount, with integral AIR STRIPPER
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2022, 06:36:15 AM »
I extended the stock front sight base by 2.5" in length, and 0.275" in diameter.  (now, 135 x 32 mm diameter)  (stock, 71 x 25 mm diameter)

The added length results in 3" of length projecting ahead of the barrel muzzle.   2.3" of the LDC length projects back from the muzzle to create a small reflex expansion space.  This is fed by the air stripper just ahead of the muzzle.

Now, the total size of this LDC may not make it as quiet as some might like.  Yet its short frontal overhang and approximate 50 gram weight make it less obtrusive.   

Could I have designed a functional 25 mm OS LDC, just by stretching it a lot, and used a greater reflex length?  Not in a meaningful way.  Not, if I wanted to keep a functional sight dovetail on it.  Not if I wanted to feed air to the rear via meaningful passages, into a meaningful volume.  Ditto, if you want to be able to remove the air tank, or use an extended air tank.  The tank clearance cut being the bugbear.

The images below compare the sight base LDC against the stock T200 sight base.

STL print file is attached at the top of the list of attachments in ZIP format.  It is for .177.  A version for .22 will follow.

The version of this LDC without a front sight dovetail, does have more expansion volume, and may appeal to people using scopes. 

If there is interest in a longer version of this LDC, I could design one that adds an inch front and rear.  So, then 4" ahead of the muzzle, and 3.3" as reflex length.  The reason for the reflex design is to increase the distance between barrel supports for batter barrel alignment; considering there is no thread and shoulder arrangement.  Only a tight fit at two sections, and a M4 screw at the stock grub screw location.

LDC to be printed with its wide end standing on the printer platen.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2022, 06:47:21 AM by subscriber »
  • USA

Offline subscriber

  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 5281
  • yes
Re: Air Arms T200 Front sight mount, with integral AIR STRIPPER
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2022, 07:55:13 AM »
Version of the above LDC, with the sight dovetail deleted.

.177  STL attached as ZIP file directly below.
  • USA

Offline subscriber

  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 5281
  • yes
Re: Air Arms T200 Front sight mount, with integral AIR STRIPPER
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2022, 08:16:04 AM »
.22 version of the above S200 LDC.  No sight dovetail.

STL attached as ZIP file directly below.
  • USA

Offline subscriber

  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 5281
  • yes
Re: Air Arms T200 Front sight mount, with integral AIR STRIPPER
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2022, 10:44:54 AM »
Notice that all of these designs sport air tank removal clearance cuts:

So, for those that want their 12+ FPE S200 more quiet, I stretched the above .22 version to 7.1", from both ends.  From 135 to 180 mm.

The reflex section is 3" long and the section in front of the muzzle 4.1" long.

The STL is attached below as a ZIP file.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2022, 10:49:26 AM by subscriber »
  • USA

Offline Insanity

  • Moderator
  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 4614
  • I get to play in the dirt and blow stuff up!
  • Real Name: Matt
Re: Air Arms T200 Front sight mount, with integral AIR STRIPPER
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2022, 05:43:57 PM »
Those look very nicely designed.
  • Carey OH
Do you need 3D printing services? Check here and see what members can provide for you.

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=186969.0

Offline subscriber

  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 5281
  • yes
Re: Air Arms T200 Front sight mount, with integral AIR STRIPPER
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2022, 08:35:18 PM »
Thanks, Matt
  • USA

Offline subscriber

  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 5281
  • yes
Re: Air Arms T200 Front sight mount, with integral AIR STRIPPER
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2022, 09:36:55 PM »
For anyone interested in printing any of these designs, note that you should turn supports off in your slicer.   

Else, unlike the open structures sketched below, supports inside a closed structure are impossible to remove.  So, my designs avoid the need for supports:

There are no slopes off vertical by more than 45 degrees, and mostly they are 30 degrees off vertical or shallower.  So, no supports are required.  In some instances a design ends up with bridges, but I keep those to less than 2 mm.

There is only one orientation that will enable printing these designs to avoid "floating features" (impossible without supports).  That is with the front end of the part standing on the printer platen (assuming FDM or molten filament printing).  See sketch below.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2022, 09:40:13 PM by subscriber »
  • USA

Offline HunterWhite

  • Hunter Whitebeard
  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 3093
  • Bishop's Castle
  • Real Name: Hunter
Re: Air Arms T200 Front sight mount, with integral AIR STRIPPER
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2022, 07:28:36 PM »
Subscriber,
I have been studying this post very carefully.  I don't have a 3D printer, so I need to find someone near me to print it. This looks perfect for my CZ-200.
Thanks for sharing your hard work.

Hunter
  • Arlington Texas
Condor 25, 2240, Umarex Colt, 177 FaTRod😎

Offline subscriber

  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 5281
  • yes
Re: Air Arms T200 Front sight mount, with integral AIR STRIPPER
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2022, 09:46:25 PM »
Hunter, PM sent.

You did not mention which design you are interested in?

Assuming LDC; what power level are you running at with your CZ-200?  The longer design above should take the sharp edge off a 12 to 20 FPE tune.  If that does not meet your expectations, I can design you a longer one.  Or longer and wider.

What I get out of this, is your feedback on a given design to help further my understanding.  Other than packaging constraints unique to the 200 series, a pleasing form factor that is not too bulky, nor too heavy are the main drivers. 

As for the inside, I did a number of designs for the .22 Avenger that other people made and tested.  I am incorporating what I learned from those trials into may latest designs.

I retain the M4 screw location of the original factory muzzle "brake".  That is used to position the devices in the correctly rotational alignment with the air tank.  The screw also prevent the device from moving fore/aft relative to the muzzle.  There are no other features to set the position on the barrel.  Your experience with ease of installation will inform if I need to add a shoulder for the muzzle to stop against.

I have designed in a M4 x 0.5 mm thread, but expect you will need to chase that with a tap, or a screw, before installing on the barrel.  I suggest you obtain a longer screw for more engagement in the plastic.  Not to torque it hard (don't), but to resist for aft loads that want to rock the screw off vertical.  The threaded depth will take a 8 mm long grub screw on the larger than stock OD devices.

The screw won't go into the stock slot in the barrel, if the muzzle is not in the right fore/aft location (+ - 0.25 mm).

To make finding the location easy, wrap the barrel with tape such that the tape edge is the distance from the barrel muzzle shown below.  You will need to rotate the device so it clocks with your airtank.  That should place the screw in the screw slot correctly.  (or dimple, if some barrel variants have a dimple, rather than slot).

You may be able to get away without the crew from just the friction, or added friction, if add on layer of tape.  I have designed the ID to be a slop-less fit with the barrel OD, but still be easy to press or tap on (gently).  To reduce friction, the barrel channel is relieved, except for the areas highlighted in blue - last image.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2022, 10:31:30 PM by subscriber »
  • USA

Offline subscriber

  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 5281
  • yes
Re: Air Arms T200 Front sight mount, with integral AIR STRIPPER
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2022, 08:15:31 AM »
Hunter,

In case you think not having a positive depth stop for the barrel is to amateurish, I created a version of the last (longer) LDC with such a stop feature.  See images and print file attached below.

Previously, I decided against it because:
1. The stock "brake" has no such shoulder;
2.  the shoulder/s created need permanent internal supports for 3D printing.  Such supports take up volume and may interfere with air flow to the reflex cavity. 
3. Also, one needs to be careful of avoiding potential over-constraint; where the barrel stop shoulder fights with the retention screw.

To avoid interference, I spaced off the barrel stop shoulder 0.25 mm "deep", so that it would never prevent the retention screw from going home. (based on my T200 barrel dimensions - which may differ from others).  Then added feasible internal tapering ribs to enable printing, with least air flow interference.

Anyway, if you prefer the design with the barrel stop, I am attaching the STL print file to this post as a ZIP file.

Of course, this assumes the longer LDC was what you had in mind.  No matter if it was not, because this adds a variant for people that might battle to figure out how to simplify installation.  If you had another design in mind, and feel it would benefit from a depth stop, let me know.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2022, 08:18:15 AM by subscriber »
  • USA

Offline subscriber

  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 5281
  • yes
Re: Air Arms T200 Front sight mount, with integral AIR STRIPPER
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2022, 05:32:23 AM »
Now there is a .177 version of the longer LDC.   It has a depth stop for the barrel muzzle.   See images below.

STL print file is attached to this post as a ZIP file.
  • USA

Offline subscriber

  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 5281
  • yes
Re: Air Arms T200 Front sight mount, with integral AIR STRIPPER
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2022, 07:34:21 AM »
Here is a version of the long LDC in .177, without the barrel depth stop shoulders

In theory, the reflex airflow should be less restrictive with the depth stop material removed.  Not that I think there would be a problem with the way the depth stop version turned out.  The depth stop version (post above) will be much easier to install.

STL print file is attached below as a ZIP file.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2022, 07:45:53 AM by subscriber »
  • USA

Offline HunterWhite

  • Hunter Whitebeard
  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 3093
  • Bishop's Castle
  • Real Name: Hunter
Re: Air Arms T200 Front sight mount, with integral AIR STRIPPER
« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2022, 03:18:56 PM »
Subscriber,
I cannot locate a M4x.5 tpmm set screw. Everything seems to be M4x0.7.
Is there a reason that you chose M4x0.5?

Hunter
  • Arlington Texas
Condor 25, 2240, Umarex Colt, 177 FaTRod😎

Offline subscriber

  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 5281
  • yes
Re: Air Arms T200 Front sight mount, with integral AIR STRIPPER
« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2022, 04:13:23 PM »
Hunter,

Thanks for checking the availability of 4 mm grub screws.  I chose what I thought I measured on the stock sight screw; else I could design in a different pitch or even diameter. 

That is providing the nose of the screw was 4 mm in diameter for a suitable length (or slightly less, to fit into the slot in the barrel).

So, if you tell me which part you are interested in I can give the retention screw hole an M4 x 0.7 thread this evening.

  • USA

Offline HunterWhite

  • Hunter Whitebeard
  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 3093
  • Bishop's Castle
  • Real Name: Hunter
Re: Air Arms T200 Front sight mount, with integral AIR STRIPPER
« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2022, 04:54:00 PM »
Subscriber,
Your work is amazing.

It seems that M3 is commom 0.5 thread per mm.
M4 is most common in 0.7 tpmm.

I will need to tap it anyway so smooth bore is ok.

I am interested in "a version of the long LDC in .177, without the barrel depth stop shoulders. "

I have a 177 set to 11,5 FPE. It doesn't make much noise as it is.

Hunter
  • Arlington Texas
Condor 25, 2240, Umarex Colt, 177 FaTRod😎