A friend used to say "Never let the facts get in the way of telling an interesting story". I did not agree, nor do now, but he went on to became a script writer and have a very comfortable life, LOL!To complement the setting, y'all (I'm in North Carolina now) need to remember that humans are really bad instruments.The problem here is the limited power level of the chosen rifle. So, let's analyze some hard numbers:In cal 0.177" this model has been registered to yield up to 12 ft-lbsIn cal 0.22" we have a reliable account of it yielding 8.3 ft-lbs (14.3 gr pellets at 512 fps)So, that establishes the possible trajectories.A 0.177 pellet at 12 ft-lbs, if zeroed at 25 yards/ 23 meters will be 2 mRad's down at 55 yrds, and it will take 1/4 of a second to get there. It will also drift 1.2 mRads for every 5 kph of windIf you go to the 0.22" cal at 512 fps, then the trajectory listed implies a drop of 4.6 mRads from apex, and wind drift can be estimated from tables that it will be of the order of 3 mRads per 5 kph of wind. Time of Flight can be estimated at 1/2 second (VERY noticeable, even to humans).Now, HA may get a rangefinder, or he may get a good scope and learn to rangefind either using the focus of the scope, or using "bracketing", so he should be able to get an accurate range within 2 yds at 55What is REAL HARD is to estimate the wind across the whole range the pellet has to cover, and in that sense, the wind drift is more important than the drop in POI.In this sense, a lightweight 0.22" will be an advantage, as it can be driven almost as fast as 0.177", thereby giving very similar trajectories (vertically and horizontally) and still allows a greater area and penetration.HTHHM
Hector, Unless you're shooting a monster heavy pellet, 512 fps is about 100 fps too slow for the average 22 caliber Hw50. Typo? Of the 177 and 22 Hw50s that I've owned and tuned for others, they typically like the following pellets for accuracy and energy. These are typical chronograph results for a healthy Hw50, ymmv. 177cal JSB Exact 8.44 / 795fps22 cal H&N FTT 14.66 / 615fpsThese numbers will yield truer ballistic calculations.HTHRon
Quote from: Bayman on May 16, 2022, 08:35:50 AMHector, Unless you're shooting a monster heavy pellet, 512 fps is about 100 fps too slow for the average 22 caliber Hw50. Typo? Of the 177 and 22 Hw50s that I've owned and tuned for others, they typically like the following pellets for accuracy and energy. These are typical chronograph results for a healthy Hw50, ymmv. 177cal JSB Exact 8.44 / 795fps22 cal H&N FTT 14.66 / 615fpsThese numbers will yield truer ballistic calculations.HTHRonNo Ron, those are Mark's exact numbers: 14.3 grs at 512 fps. zeroed 1/2" high at 23 yards and dropping to -4 mils at 60 yards.My point is that it takes TIME for the pellet to get to the target in that time lots of things can happen. Wind drift is the airgun hunter nemesis because MOST of the times our targets are up in trees, where the ground effect is not that relevant and winds are moving faster than where we are.I have no doubt that an OEM HW 50 can shoot better than Mark's Fenix, but the main issue here is RANGE.At a limited POWER level, if you want to get range, you need to go the smaller caliber/higher velocity.Now, if you have a limited RANGE, then to maximize your results you go to the higher caliber, and then within that caliber to the lighter projectiles that are still suitable to the task at hand.IIRC, the OP (HA) has a fairly limited distance, but needs to shoot effectively. So, going on about 60 yards shots, seem to me to be drifting away from the OP.Of course, I may be wrong. If I am, I apologize.Keep well and shoot straight!HM
Ron, the 512fps is from a detuned Cometa 400 compact in .22cal with a 14.3gn pellet, My HW50 in .22cal aves 625fps with a 14.66gn FTT, there's nothing misleading here, maybe you mis read what I posted? non the less these are facts from my rifles, now if you want to talk barrel length as someone else has mentioned, my HW50 has a 10.5'' barrel length with no choke, My Cometa 400C has an 11'' factory barrel IIRC? with a factory can attached to it!
Slightly OT, but I'm curious about rangefinding with just a scope. One of my favorite scopes is an old BSA fixed 4x with parallax adjustment. It's very simple but the image is big and very clear. I usually keep the parallax set at 15 yards because the gun it rides on is typically used at no more than 25 yards. I have found that anything that I guesstimate to be beyond about 20 yards starts to get blurry, so I try to get closer until it is sharp and clear again. Is that what you mean by rangefinding? I don't get a precise range from doing that, but I do get into what I know is the effective range of that combination.
Ron, I will also say these ranges I shoot are verified with 2 different laser range finders, also shorter barrels and my hold on the rifle are different and give different results then a standard length rifle, plus my HW50 .22cal barrel has no choke add after it was cut to 10.5'' has less restriction on the pellet, chokes kill velocity! so does barrel length, Were talking 12ftlb guns here and under, Watch this video and live and learn!
Ron, it's all good!!!! But I will agree with Hector as well the shooter is the key behind the trigger, but also having a quality rifle was my point and learning how to use it
Quote from: HOSPassassin on May 16, 2022, 10:56:23 AMSlightly OT, but I'm curious about rangefinding with just a scope. One of my favorite scopes is an old BSA fixed 4x with parallax adjustment. It's very simple but the image is big and very clear. I usually keep the parallax set at 15 yards because the gun it rides on is typically used at no more than 25 yards. I have found that anything that I guesstimate to be beyond about 20 yards starts to get blurry, so I try to get closer until it is sharp and clear again. Is that what you mean by rangefinding? I don't get a precise range from doing that, but I do get into what I know is the effective range of that combination.Not OT, at all, Brendan.And apologies in advance for the long post.HM
Holy smokes, Hector! I think you've forgotten more than I'll ever know about scopes!I did a little research this afternoon (day off from work) into the trajectories and wind deflections of .177 or .22 pellets shot out of an HW 50 at velocities that others have commonly mentioned. I fed a lot of information into Chairgun, made a table of the results, and calculated some mean values. The results were interesting but I don't know if I understand everything they're telling me. From a .22 cal HW 50, shooting nothing heavier than a 14.66 gr FTT, zeroed at 30 yards with a 1 inch kill zone, there is usually some hold-under from 17-ish to 24-ish yards, then flat out to +/- 34, and between .5 and 1 mil-dot of hold-over at 40. The mean distance at which the pellet is deflected more than .5 inch by a 10 mph crosswind is 16 yards, and the mean value of wind deflection at 40 yards is 3.78 inches, assuming that the wind is at a constant 90* angle and speed.From a .177 cal HW 50, shooting everything from an RWS Super Hollow Point to a Crosman 10.5 grain dome, zeroed at 35 yards with a 1 inch kill zone, the trajectory is usually flat from about 10 to almost 40 yards. The SHP and the RWS Supermag have some midrange hold-under. The mean distance for .5 inch of wind deflection is 14.8 yards, and the mean value of wind deflection at 40 yards is 4.61 inches, assuming all the same parameters in the previous paragraph.The differences in wind deflection appear pretty small, but are they really? That's where my experience is lacking. This past season I used mostly Meisterkugelns in a very accurate Daisy 901 to harvest a lot of squirrels, but 1. I hunted during the morning when the wind was quieter, 2. I usually shot from about 20 yards, and 3. if there was wind, I tried to either shoot at a 0* angle to it or wait until it died down before squeezing the trigger. My main response to wind so far has been to avoid it if at all possible. Of course, it's not always possible, and that plus the shot cycle difference between calibers is why I started this thread in the first place. So how big of a difference does 14.8 yards without significant deflection make vs. 16 yards? How easy is it to correct for wind and drop at the same time?HAP. S. I love the mostly constructive discussion so far, folks. I think we're all learning something here!
Sorry for the off topic, but Hector, do the Discovery scope hold up on springers?