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Author Topic: Air venturia avenger 25 flyers  (Read 2698 times))

Offline Tim F

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Re: Air venturia avenger 25 flyers
« Reply #80 on: June 12, 2022, 06:42:47 PM »
Jerry,
Thanks for the update, I wonder if plastic ties on each side of the baffel would hold it in place or would it create a vibration issue.
Thanks again.
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Offline Spin

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Re: Air venturia avenger 25 flyers
« Reply #81 on: June 13, 2022, 02:03:18 AM »
I don't think so. Cut then to the same length so mass and weight are the same. If anything I think they would reduce vibrations along the lines of the silencers on a bowstring. As long as they stay in place (and several wraps and the end twist all compact and tight) they should do the trick. Let me tell you, you want to pull that shroud off and clean both it's interior and the barrel and the discs lets say every 6 mo.s or so if you do a lot of shooting. Oil, dirt and particularly lead dust can create a gummy adhesive coating on everything inside that shroud. Getting my internal
moderator OUT of the tube was a major league PIA. My internal moderator fit's tightly in the bore of the shroud using 2 just about perfectly fitting o-rings just like these anti-vibration baffles. I very highly recommend using Ballistol for cleaning before tearing down the setup on the barrels. As long as the discs stay in position I'd just , spray, brush and wipe off. Lightly oil the cleaned bore of the shroud and slide it back into position then screw it back securely.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2022, 02:05:58 AM by Spin »
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Offline Spin

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Re: Air venturia avenger 25 flyers
« Reply #82 on: June 13, 2022, 03:21:26 PM »
   While I'm intrigued by the use of kinetic sand as a acoustic deadening medium I have some pertinent (at least I think so) questions on
the practicality of it's use. Kinetic Sand is in basic terms, sand mixed with silicone oil. They packed the hollow butt stock with it and packed the
void area inside the barrel shroud. Alright so would that not make air stripping much more important? Will flipping be more of a problem?
Watching the reaction of the encapsulated kinetic sand sample to repeated impact really threw me and seemed opposite to what I was told while researching it. Compaction? and in the extreme no less. The video I watched narrator claimed the side of the encapsulated sample
with repeated impacts became rock hard? Would have to be removed with a grinder? I'm a bit put off by such a prospect and how much energy
would it take to make a significant difference in the sand surrounding the barrel? If the silicone oil gets displaced by hard or thickening sand
how would the remaining liquid affect performance? How even would the distribution of the hard solids sand and the now extra oil/sand mixture be? Questions, questions! I hope we get to see how things go with this setup as time and steady use continue. A gun prepared with sand packed in the forearm stock, butt and shroud is likely to be religated to bench shooting. But there a gun is likely to see a great deal of shooting. I look forward to seeing it
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Offline Tim F

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Re: Air venturia avenger 25 flyers
« Reply #83 on: June 13, 2022, 11:34:27 PM »
Jerry,
Thanks for the insight of cleaning of the shroud. I think the rabbit hole is getting deeper. These are very interesting concepts. A little more understanding as we move along. I appreciate your perspective as some of these things I haven't thought of.
Thanks again.
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Offline Tomygun1

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Re: Air venturia avenger 25 flyers
« Reply #84 on: June 14, 2022, 12:45:27 AM »
I received my order for the bbl shroud inserts for my 25cal Avenger today and they are just what I wanted and look good.     First let me recommend that you donít over think this process!     Any solid materials like a sand pack will defeat the reason for having a shroud, and unlike with firearms we are only dealing with 3000psi.     I often use electrical tape around the bbl exterior for reasons other than anchoring these shroud rings and so long as there is no oil residue on the surface it stays put.
It will be at least a week before I get time to install these and at that time I will also remove the bbl for a proper polishing.     I will post the results.


Tonight I tested the Cayden 22 pcp I have been working on that really needed help, and at 75yds it finally put 5 shots into one ragged hole.    Success feels great and I expect the same from the Avenger at longer ranges in the future.


Tom
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Offline Tim F

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Re: Air venturia avenger 25 flyers
« Reply #85 on: June 18, 2022, 01:13:50 AM »
Tom, thanks for the update, I also received my bbl/shroud inserts. It will be a week or so before I will be able to install them, can't break my avenger down at this time as I have had a increase in a pesting issue, once resolved I will work on it. Will be interested in any results from you efforts.
Thanks again.
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Offline Tomygun1

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Re: Air venturia avenger 25 flyers
« Reply #86 on: June 18, 2022, 02:05:16 AM »
Tim,
I used 5 different grits of polishing paper hoping to take off the high spots in the bore and spent hours on it, then thoroughly cleaned and then polished with Semi-Chrome metal polish for a final bright finish.    Inside my shroud is now a very unusual array of aftermarket parts.     Starting with a 1/8Ē hole drilled in the shroud at the breach end itís followed with four wads cut from a ĎMr Cleaní pad to buffer escaping sound under pressure, then three of the aftermarket shroud harmonic centering discs, then the factory dual O ring shroud centering piece, followed by the last aftermarket centering ring.    The muzzle tip has an aftermarket air striper with an O ring to anchor the muzzle to the shroud.    Itís all held in place with black electrical tape to anchor it.     Then mine is followed with interior baffles and an exterior suppressor.    After all of these attempts to reduce harmonics and tensioning the bbl in place with the shroud itís clear that the only remaining slop now comes from the contact point between the exterior bbl shroud retainer and the shroud itself.    So While a copper shim would be preferable I made shims from paper to center the shroud/shroud retainer in a solid place.    Couldnít be better.


I ran out of daylight and the scope required huge adjustments and I wasnít able to properly test my results on paper, but first impressions were good and I was able to hit pistol cartridge cases at 75yds.    1 1/2 turns Ďoutí on the hammer spring at 2900psi reg setting with JSB 15.89gr.


We will see,
Tom
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Offline Tim F

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Re: Air venturia avenger 25 flyers
« Reply #87 on: June 19, 2022, 07:42:42 PM »
Tom, Thanks for the update. It sounds like you are making progress. I am looking forward to installing the shroud rings and polishing the bbl. Will be interested in your testing and if the flyer issue has improved. I have a pesting issue to deal with before mine can worked on. What did you use to ream the inside of the bbl shroud rings. I am thinking a wooden dowel and sand paper. I received 5 shroud rings, and I think you only mentioned that you install 4. Wondering if you only received 4 or left 1 out for some reason.
Thanks Tim
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Offline Spin

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Re: Air venturia avenger 25 flyers
« Reply #88 on: June 20, 2022, 12:49:59 AM »
Tom, Thanks for the update. It sounds like you are making progress. I am looking forward to installing the shroud rings and polishing the bbl. Will be interested in your testing and if the flyer issue has improved. I have a pesting issue to deal with before mine can worked on. What did you use to ream the inside of the bbl shroud rings. I am thinking a wooden dowel and sand paper. I received 5 shroud rings, and I think you only mentioned that you install 4. Wondering if you only received 4 or left 1 out for some reason.
Thanks Tim
  I only received 4 rings with my order. I believe that was the specified number. Tom how did the gun sound? Was there a noticeable difference?
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Offline Tomygun1

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Re: Air venturia avenger 25 flyers
« Reply #89 on: June 20, 2022, 02:11:55 AM »
My gun is already very quiet and I was afraid adding those centering rings might interfere with that but they didnít change anything.    Best I remember I received 4 rings and I placed 3 before the factory centering piece, then one more after that ending with my air stripper.    That followed with baffles and then the moderator like it was before.     So far I find no change in accuracy and Im hard pressed to blame inaccuracies on the shroud.     I will say that my non shrouded Cayden 22 is now producing consistent moa at 75yds.
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Offline Tim F

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Re: Air venturia avenger 25 flyers
« Reply #90 on: June 20, 2022, 09:24:36 PM »
Thanks for the update. I received 5, 4 tan and 1 gray. Will install all 5 when I get the chance. Those alone with the factory original, should change something,I hope. Will post results when installed.
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Offline Spin

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Re: Air venturia avenger 25 flyers
« Reply #91 on: June 23, 2022, 02:06:21 AM »
nuts!
« Last Edit: June 23, 2022, 02:12:01 AM by Spin »
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Offline Tim F

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Re: Air venturia avenger 25 flyers
« Reply #92 on: June 23, 2022, 11:00:50 PM »
Tom and Jerry
Installed all 5 bbl bushings and only had time for a quick test at 23 yards. Had 2 5 shot groups that were 1/4" ctc. Will go to the range at first chance and see how it performs at longer ranges.
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Offline Spin

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Re: Air venturia avenger 25 flyers
« Reply #93 on: June 24, 2022, 03:31:51 PM »
When you guys are making these modifications how and what are you using for a shooting rest? How are you dialing in the crosshairs? Lead Sled or equivalent, Tripod, Sand Bags, Gun Vice? Are you zeroing the gun on target manually, mechanically?
     If you have the "Biting Money" or access to high end gear it would be great. If not I'd sand bag the ever lov'in snot out of the gun on a dead solid bench. The more you remove the human element in extreme benchrest and have comparative ( before and after performance) the better. Same methods, same day, weather, ammo, the whole megillah. Them play with laying a few sandbags against and across the shroud when shooting.
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Offline Tim F

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Re: Air venturia avenger 25 flyers
« Reply #94 on: June 25, 2022, 03:06:25 PM »
Jerry at home I can shoot up to 35 yards. I shoot off of my router table with locking wheels, bipod on rifle and sand bag under rear of stock. I lightly rest check on stock and light finger on trigger. At the range shoot off of a steel bench concrete in the ground, rifle same as at home. I have tried lead slead with pb with poor results.
I was able to test some more this morning at home at 35 yards. Continue to have the same results, issue 3 shots in nearly same hole then next open up to 3/8 to 1/2. If weather holds will try for the range and see what I get at 50 and 75 yards. If I don't see any improvement there then polish the bbl. Will keep you posted.
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Offline Back_Roads

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Re: Air venturia avenger 25 flyers
« Reply #95 on: June 25, 2022, 04:11:50 PM »
 Another thing to look into if using the mag. is it damaging some of the pellets when cycling.
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Re: Air venturia avenger 25 flyers
« Reply #96 on: June 25, 2022, 05:06:32 PM »
Another thing to look into if using the mag. is it damaging some of the pellets when cycling.
I was just about to type the same thing.
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Offline Tim F

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Re: Air venturia avenger 25 flyers
« Reply #97 on: June 25, 2022, 05:45:59 PM »
Thanks for the insight. I have only used the single shot tray as it is one less variable.
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Online JimD

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Re: Air venturia avenger 25 flyers
« Reply #98 on: June 25, 2022, 08:59:34 PM »
Sorry if I missed something but I think the first thing to do on the barrel is to polish the crown using a brass screw and prefereably some JB paste.  You could also use Flitz or another metal polish but it will take longer.  Should be simple 5-10 minute job and may solve issue with very little downside risk.

I polished the bore on my P35 in 25 caliber but I did not see any significant effect.  Doesn't mean you won't.  I'd push a pellet first to see if it has tight and loose spots or another reason it might need polished.  If it feels smooth I probably would not polish it.  But if you go slow and use nothing more agressive than JBs it should not hurt.

The lead, there the pellet transitions to the rifling also needs to be smooth enough it does not damage the pellets.  Sandpaper on a dowel can smooth it.  I did this too on my P35 but again, it did not seem to change anything.

To be confident it is the gun and not the shooter, it is a good idea to have a gun that doesn't have these fliers.  I know a lot of my larger groups are just me.  But a nice light crisp trigger really helps. I had to do a lot of adjusting on my Avenger trigger before I was happy with it.  It's better than my bullpup triggers now, however.  To give an example, I shot a couple groups with my P35-22 today.  I was checking to see if I messed up when I bought 5.51 instead of 5.52 pellets.  I shot at 25 yards.  My first group was about 3/8 but the first shot was to the left a little, the direction of my trigger pull (I shoot from the left shoulder).  I think I pulled it a little.  Next two were touching.  Second group was about 3/16.  I've shot better with the 5.52s but I've also shot worse.  The P35 does not have as crisp a trigger as my Avenger.  It's under 1 lb but has some creep.  Not sure if the 5.52s shoot better or not but my conclusion is the 5.51s will be OK. 

I did a thread on this but if you haven't adjusted your eyepiece so that your head movement doesn't shift your point of aim, you need to do that.  It can easily cost your the amount of your fliers. 

My Avenger 25 has only the stock spacer in the shroud, holes at the back of the shroud, and an aftermarket "moderator" in the shroud.  I get 1/4 or smaller groups out of it at 25 yards regularly.  When I do not, I am pretty sure it is me.  I modified the shroud to make it quieter.  It is about 85 db now 1 ft ahead of the muzzle and 1 yard to the side.  I'm not saying other things may not help your rifle, only that mine has not needed these things.
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Offline Tim F

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Re: Air venturia avenger 25 flyers
« Reply #99 on: June 25, 2022, 10:28:13 PM »
Jim thanks for the post. I am going to test at 50 to 100 yards. If still having flyer issues will have to pull the bbl, crown as you suggested, clean bbl and run a pellet through it to see if there are any tight spots, if so polish. I have worked on the trigger as you described in one of your previous post, still to heavy, will have to revisit it.
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