Taming a magnum springer
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Taming a magnum springer
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Topic: Taming a magnum springer (Read 1413 times))
Rattosaurus
Shooter
Posts: 48
yes
Real Name: Joe Nicotera
Taming a magnum springer
«
on:
August 19, 2017, 03:04:36 AM »
I posted earlier a request for information about the correct pellet selection for my, brand new, RWS / Diana 350 Magnum.
If you don't know, the rifle is one of the first quality magnums and also known for being mostly a "problem child." To make it worst, I had purchased it in .177 caliber. Prior to the internet I owned a a Diana 36, which was an earlier magnum model, also in .177, and wanted to continue my efforts at taming the thing.
One of that problems that I had experienced before was due to the limited selection of available pellets. Now that the computer allows us to do our shopping without asking a gun broker to do it for us, I was looking forward to what the gun could do.
However, during the post that I had previously made and mentioned, I suddenly realized that the gun wasn't actually designed to operate correctly without a scope...and...resultant, my own opinion about correct pellets selection would be rather frugal.
Hence... today's post. I tested my 20ftlb RWS Diana with several different pellets and then tested it with a "normal" 3x9x40mm scope and the supplied mounts. A) The only way to get the thing to shoot strait past 20yards/meters is to add the scope. B) You have to have a scope stop.
During my scope/pellet experiment I added two extra sets of scope rings/mounts, inverted and attached to the scope tube, but unattached to the rifle. I added them as counter weights...my " theory " was based on the concept that the gun needed to have the muzzle stop whipping wildly around during the shot cycle. Adding the rigs was part of the research.
Result: regardless of my pellet choice, scope weight has a huge effect on pellet keyholing past the 20 yard/meter mark. After several different choices of pellet were making clean round holes in the target at the thirty yards/ meters distance, I removed the scope and weighed it and the mounts. The scope and mounts weighed in at 24oz.
I then ordered a much heavier scope and a RWS mount with the built in scope stop. Scope and mounts came in today...much better! (BTW, RWS doesnt list it but their "lock down mount, is actually extra height..bringing my scope up to 2.3 inches above the barrel.) and besides, the rifle is no longer as "hold critical." I can actually zero the rifle in for the kneeling position, stand up and expect the pellet to fly within an inch of zero at 25 yards.(WITHOUT TUMBLING OR KEY-HOLING!)
Thank you all for your help and hope that is of help to you all in return.
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North of Tampa Florida USA
LAalex
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 2352
Real Name: Scotty
Re: Taming a magnum springer
«
Reply #1 on:
August 19, 2017, 03:30:45 AM »
Glad to hear it's working out for you. The350 is a handful but worth the effort
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Washington, LA
Crosman Optimus .22
Diana 48 .22 Vortek PG2 Hawke 3-9x40 HD
Diana 350P Tinbum kit Vortek Seal Hawke 3-9x40 HD
CZ 634
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Old Crosman 2100
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Doug Wall
Expert
Posts: 1655
yes
Re: Taming a magnum springer
«
Reply #2 on:
August 20, 2017, 10:08:44 AM »
I've had some success using LimbSaver Barrel De-resonators on springers. I've had one on a Benji Trail AW for quite a while, and I just started experimenting with one on an XS25 (RWS34 clone). I know it improves the Benji accuracy, and preliminary results suggest that it's helping reduce group size on the XS25. As with all of this, your mileage may vary, but at about $10, it's a pretty cheap experiment. Note that for larger shrouded barrels, you need the Bull Barrel model!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Limbsaver-Sharpshooter-X-Ring-Sporter-Barrel-De-Resonator-Black-12051-/331780957542?epid=1200628838&hash=item4d3fafa566:g:ia8AAOSwFNZWxM3r
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Hilton, NY
lefteyeshot
without hope, without fear
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 6994
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Real Name: Tim
Re: Taming a magnum springer
«
Reply #3 on:
August 20, 2017, 02:42:54 PM »
I have a .177 Diana 350 Pro Compact and awhile back I tried some JSB Beast 16.20 grs. At 25 yards the hole were touching. It shoot high and I fixed that with a droop mount mounted backwards. They're a hand full to shoot.
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Savannah, Ga.
Diana 470th, 56th, 350 PC
BSF c60
LG55 DST
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LG53
TELL 200
Gamo 440 CR 967 of 1000 '92 Olympics
Parrus wood
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Norica Massimo .22, Black Eagle
CZ631, 2 CZ634
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Beeman RS2.177/.22, 1048
Beeman 2016 dbl. brl. .177/.22
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Storm in Benj. T.H. stock, GRT
Storm GRT,
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3 Crosman 3100(Spain)
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rsterne
Member 2000+fps Club
Bob and Lloyd
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 26956
GTA Forums Person of the Year 2017
Real Name: Bob
Re: Taming a magnum springer
«
Reply #4 on:
August 20, 2017, 07:12:56 PM »
I had a BAM B-28, the 350 Clone, in .22 cal.... I couldn't stand shooting it, and despite trying at least 30 different pellets never found anything it liked.... I sold it within a month of purchase, and never looked at another Magnum Springer....
Bob
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Coalmont, BC, Canada
🇺🇦
Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since! 🇺🇦
Airsenal:
1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 2260 PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 HPA (37 FPE), 2560 HPA (52 FPE), XS-60c HPA in .30 cal (90 FPE), .22 cal QB79 HPA, Disco Doubles in .22, .25 & .30 cal, "Hayabusa" Custom PCP Project (Mk.I is .22 & .25 cal regulated; Mk.II is .224, .257, 7mm, .308 & .357; Mk.III is .410 shotgun and .458 cal), .257 "Monocoque" Benchrest PCP, .172/6mm Regulated PCP and .224/.257 Unregulated, Three regulated BRods in .25 cal (70 FPE), .30 cal (100 FPE) & .35 cal (145 FPE), .257 Condor (180 FPE).
Doug Wall
Expert
Posts: 1655
yes
Re: Taming a magnum springer
«
Reply #5 on:
August 20, 2017, 10:44:35 PM »
I had an opportunity to do some shooting with a Beeman Mach 12.5. Hated it! Over 50 lbs. cocking force, kicked like a mule, and was a really harsh shooter. I suspect that a lot of inexperienced shooter fall victim to the magnum power hype, end up hating the way they shoot, and the guns end up in the back of closets.
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Hilton, NY
Rattosaurus
Shooter
Posts: 48
yes
Real Name: Joe Nicotera
Re: Taming a magnum springer
«
Reply #6 on:
August 21, 2017, 09:29:01 AM »
Some nice responses.
Adding a rubber weight to the barrel? Adding any type of weight should help, same is true with a bow, but one that only costs $10 is an improvement.
16.2gr pellets? I purchased two tins of H@N 15gr Sniper Magnums a while back. Tested them and that have stayed buried in the drawer since. They keyholed accurately at twenty yards, however by the time they had traveled thirty yards I couldnt not even call it a "group" it was more similar to testing the performance of military flechetts. I had originally purchased them because hunting pigs with an air rifle is legal here. Although I could take them back out and test them again but I'll tell you why they are buried at the bottom of my drawer.---> The heavier the pellet the longer it takes for the gun's piston to cycle--->as a result, they are only practical for a PCP gun or if it's the only bullet you have left when the raccoons take over your Mercedes. Seriously, now that I have the rifle balanced I'm having good luck with the Field Target trophies (A 1000+ FPS!) I'm just getting this thing tuned and appreciate your comments but the pellet that is the least hold sensitive is going to win that one. ( I used to have a 15lb centerfire with a 20x and a tripod, but I don't live on a farm anymore. If I want to shoot, I can't just start the tractor and mow the field, I have to stand up.)
Victim of a magnum springer? Uh, OK guys, it's a lot prettier, much more powerful and made out of wood and metal, but it's still a bb gun. If you want to blow your money at the local pub talking about football, politics and religion, remember to ask all the guys who got robbed. They probably deserved it. And I currently have two screwed up magnum springers in the corner of my closet getting rusty...good thing they are only BB guns or I never would have learned anything about life.
"Usually", if the rifle is to be fired from the standing position, the lighter bullet will perform better in actual practice. "You simply have to practice wit that thing enough so you can get the arrow to the target before something goes wrong, boy." Although for some people, holing paper is their only intention you may want to take into account that for the average magnum springer fan the intended target isn't actually stationary.
Shooting it without a sling yet. I discovered a $5 tin of Winchester hollow point pellets---it really needs a sling and I REALLY need to work on my skills. A big jagged hole in the 8 oclock eight - nine - x ring, another jagged hole in the left corner of the target outside of the 6 ring = Serious need for better human muscle control.
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North of Tampa Florida USA
mobilemail
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 4553
Real Name: Mark
Re: Taming a magnum springer
«
Reply #7 on:
August 21, 2017, 04:37:11 PM »
I don't think you ever tame a magnum springer. It tames you.
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Greene County IL 62016
Hey Daystate, FX, Air Arms and BSA - we need those left handed rifles!!!
lizzie
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 15647
Re: Taming a magnum springer
«
Reply #8 on:
August 21, 2017, 11:33:49 PM »
Quote from: mobilemail on August 21, 2017, 04:37:11 PM
I don't think you ever tame a magnum springer. It tames you.
Methinks you're correct!
The closest thing I have to a magnum springer is the R-1...
and it's gonna stay that way!
Logged
USA, TX, DFW
"Every morning in Africa, a Gazelle wakes up. It knows it must run faster than the fastest lion or it will be killed. Every morning a Lion wakes up. It knows it must outrun the slowest Gazelle or it will starve to death. It doesn't matter whether you are a Lion or a Gazelle... when the sun comes up, you'd better be running." -anonymous
lefteyeshot
without hope, without fear
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 6994
yes
Real Name: Tim
Re: Taming a magnum springer
«
Reply #9 on:
August 22, 2017, 10:06:20 PM »
I like springer. Except for one gas ram all my guns are springers. Even had my Swarm converted to a springer. Some of my magnums are hard to shoot. That's why I like'em. The Mach 12.5 is a rush to shoot. Takes a few seconds for my eyes to refocus after shooting it. It shoots within its capabilities.
Logged
Savannah, Ga.
Diana 470th, 56th, 350 PC
BSF c60
LG55 DST
LG55 Tyrolean
LG53
TELL 200
Gamo 440 CR 967 of 1000 '92 Olympics
Parrus wood
Dominator 200 carbine
Proxima, 135, 155
Synergis
Win. 1000w, 800w, 1100w, 1100s
Mendoza RM2800 & 2000 repeaters .22
Norica Massimo .22, Black Eagle
CZ631, 2 CZ634
Hammerli X2 & RWS dual cals by Mendoza
Beeman RS2.177/.22, 1048
Beeman 2016 dbl. brl. .177/.22
Air Hawk Elite wood T.H.
Ben. B1500STM Satin T.H. springer
Storm in Benj. T.H. stock, GRT
Storm GRT,
CX 2 Fury, Phantom, all in wood RC roller bearing
CX/Rem. Summit GRT
777SB GRT
G1 Summit stock GRT
3 Crosman 3100(Spain)
Steoger Ducks Unlimited X3
RWS93 (Spain)
RWS320 (China)
SPA SR1250W
2 TF99, TF59 GRT
TF89 (chopped, shrouded Beeman .22 Brl.)
B26-2, B21, B20
2 B3-1, 2 B2
4 Peak B4-2
2 QB6,
2 QB57
2 Fast Deer
2 B3-1AK
AR2078B, AR2078T.H.
Zogunz Hawk 010 .22 co2 (Phil.)
EIG 1353 co2 (Japan)
M3, UZI
XSP 120D single stroke dual cal. pistol
3 P17, Steoger XP4
Baikal MP-53M
Bunch of co2 pistol
trackerbuddy
Marksman
Posts: 383
yes
Real Name: Kent
Re: Taming a magnum springer
«
Reply #10 on:
August 22, 2017, 10:35:39 PM »
A year ago I would have said MAGNUM YEAH ! Now I'm not so sure. I'm not ready to join the 12 fpe club but I have learned that bigger and faster don't always equal better
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Dayton OH
Xisico XS-25-SFB .22
BAM-26-2 .22 MM Tuned
Gamo .177 Bone Collector out of rotation
El Game 300 long term project gun
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Browning Buckmark
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Slavia ZVP
lefteyeshot
without hope, without fear
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 6994
yes
Real Name: Tim
Re: Taming a magnum springer
«
Reply #11 on:
August 22, 2017, 10:57:18 PM »
That's the challenge.
Logged
Savannah, Ga.
Diana 470th, 56th, 350 PC
BSF c60
LG55 DST
LG55 Tyrolean
LG53
TELL 200
Gamo 440 CR 967 of 1000 '92 Olympics
Parrus wood
Dominator 200 carbine
Proxima, 135, 155
Synergis
Win. 1000w, 800w, 1100w, 1100s
Mendoza RM2800 & 2000 repeaters .22
Norica Massimo .22, Black Eagle
CZ631, 2 CZ634
Hammerli X2 & RWS dual cals by Mendoza
Beeman RS2.177/.22, 1048
Beeman 2016 dbl. brl. .177/.22
Air Hawk Elite wood T.H.
Ben. B1500STM Satin T.H. springer
Storm in Benj. T.H. stock, GRT
Storm GRT,
CX 2 Fury, Phantom, all in wood RC roller bearing
CX/Rem. Summit GRT
777SB GRT
G1 Summit stock GRT
3 Crosman 3100(Spain)
Steoger Ducks Unlimited X3
RWS93 (Spain)
RWS320 (China)
SPA SR1250W
2 TF99, TF59 GRT
TF89 (chopped, shrouded Beeman .22 Brl.)
B26-2, B21, B20
2 B3-1, 2 B2
4 Peak B4-2
2 QB6,
2 QB57
2 Fast Deer
2 B3-1AK
AR2078B, AR2078T.H.
Zogunz Hawk 010 .22 co2 (Phil.)
EIG 1353 co2 (Japan)
M3, UZI
XSP 120D single stroke dual cal. pistol
3 P17, Steoger XP4
Baikal MP-53M
Bunch of co2 pistol
trackerbuddy
Marksman
Posts: 383
yes
Real Name: Kent
Re: Taming a magnum springer
«
Reply #12 on:
August 22, 2017, 11:09:58 PM »
With a practical speed limit of 1000 fps is a magnum springer in .177 limited?
Disclaimer I like .22 because I like the way they feel in my hand same thing with .20 and .25, .177 just seem so small.
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Dayton OH
Xisico XS-25-SFB .22
BAM-26-2 .22 MM Tuned
Gamo .177 Bone Collector out of rotation
El Game 300 long term project gun
Daisy 499 B "first gun"
Umarex Fusion
Browning Buckmark
Beeman P-17
Slavia ZVP
HYspd
Expert
Posts: 1463
yes
Real Name: Chuck, also answers to Grumpy and Hey YOU!
Re: Taming a magnum springer
«
Reply #13 on:
August 23, 2017, 03:37:52 AM »
hmmmm.......and i repeat, hmmmmm.....
key holing is a suspect of an incorrect barrel bore.condition......shot gun grouping is an ammo versus gun conflict, but key holing shouldn't occure in quality rifling unless the rifling rate is way too slow....
in other words it sounds very much like something ain't right internally....
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Stuarts Draft VA
The Black Knight....a severely recrowned, chamfered, lapped deburred, honed, Krytox lubed and resealed Titan GP NP .22 with brass washers, a GRT-III trigger, a CP 3-9X40 and a BNM LCD soft bedded into a Fury II stock that is stuffed with 1¼ pounds of duct seal making for a 9 pound, solid shooting, 19fpe (with Crosman Destroyers of all things, at 770fps) 30 yard bottle cap assassination machine...
MODDER FOREVER FOREVER MODDING
mobilemail
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 4553
Real Name: Mark
Re: Taming a magnum springer
«
Reply #14 on:
August 23, 2017, 09:44:27 AM »
I think guys normally try a slightly larger pellet for keyholing. I'm not sure how many heavy .177 pellets offer a choice in size like 4.51, 4.52, etc. And then it's a matter of finding the "right" pellet with the "right" head size.
I had a Diana 350 Magnum in .177 a few years ago. it took a lot of patience to shoot it well, but I always rewarded me with good accuracy. I believe it liked the Beeman Kodiak 10gr and Crosman "brown box" 10gr pellets the best. Of course, that means nothing toward what your rifle will like....
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Greene County IL 62016
Hey Daystate, FX, Air Arms and BSA - we need those left handed rifles!!!
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Taming a magnum springer