GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: Dairyboy on March 14, 2017, 12:06:23 AM
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Here's a little teaser. Not even going to lie I'm very impressed with it just taking it out of the box. The fit and finish is very very nice better than any disco or maximus I've had and the cocking bolt is just massive and smooth to operate and not difficult at all. Shot a few shots over chrony on a full fill and was around 35fpe. Got plenty of pellets to test with that I hope on testing later tonight both tuning and accuracy. Oh and I forgot it's pretty dang quiet! The stock LDC works very good! Got a pretty good ping to It though but not a problem to me
(https://s6.postimg.org/uaezojewh/IMG_20170313_150702166.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/c7lwxbj1p/)
Well I mounted my Centerpoint 6x40 scope on it and decided to clean the barrel up and test some pellets. Was hoping the JSB monsters were going to do good but sadly over a 1" shot group. Decided OK I'll just try the H&N barracudas...Wow a 5 shot group right a 1/4" at 25yds even with the terrible stock trigger! Ok im getting excited now! Gonna run a shot string now
(https://s6.postimg.org/nxzuepbu9/IMG_20170313_183901307.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/8ciiuqzvx/)
Lol I must have filled to 3000psi when I first did it instead of 200bar...Well here's a shot string capable of 45fpe with 21gr pellets! I'll cut down the string to show within 4%
Created: 03-13-2017 07:41:05 PM
Description: .22 M10
Notes 1:
Notes 2:
Distance to Chrono (FT): 3.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 21.140
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: 52 °F
BP: 30.07 inHG
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
45 865 35.13 18.29 90 bar
44 872 35.70 18.43
43 879 36.27 18.58
42 887 36.94 18.75
41 897 37.78 18.96
40 901 38.11 19.05
39 906 38.54 19.15
38 913 39.13 19.30
37 926 40.26 19.58
36 926 40.26 19.58
35 934 40.96 19.74
34 942 41.66 19.91
33 948 42.19 20.04
32 953 42.64 20.15
31 960 43.27 20.29
30 963 43.54 20.36 130 bar
29 965 43.72 20.40
28 971 44.26 20.53
27 978 44.91 20.67
26 981 45.18 20.74
25 981 45.18 20.74
24 982 45.27 20.76
23 974 44.54 20.59
22 983 45.37 20.78
21 976 44.72 20.63
20 974 44.54 20.59
19 973 44.45 20.57
18 974 44.54 20.59
17 966 43.81 20.42
16 967 43.90 20.44
15 975 44.63 20.61
14 964 43.63 20.38
13 961 43.36 20.32
12 969 44.08 20.48
11 959 43.18 20.27
10 959 43.18 20.27
9 954 42.73 20.17
8 954 42.73 20.17
7 938 41.31 19.83
6 941 41.57 19.89
5 922 39.91 19.49
4 902 38.20 19.07
3 902 38.20 19.07
2 883 36.61 18.67
1 878 36.19 18.56 200 bar
Average: 941.73
StdDev: 35.44
Min: 865
Max: 983
Spread: 118
True MV: 942.05
Shots/sec: 0.12
Group Size (IN): 0.00
25 shots at 3%
Created: 03-13-2017 07:41:05 PM
Description: .22 M10
Notes 1:
Notes 2:
Distance to Chrono (FT): 3.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 21.140
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: 52 °F
BP: 30.07 inHG
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
25 953 42.64 20.15
24 960 43.27 20.29
23 963 43.54 20.36
22 965 43.72 20.40
21 971 44.26 20.53
20 978 44.91 20.67
19 981 45.18 20.74
18 981 45.18 20.74
17 982 45.27 20.76
16 974 44.54 20.59
15 983 45.37 20.78
14 976 44.72 20.63
13 974 44.54 20.59
12 973 44.45 20.57
11 974 44.54 20.59
10 966 43.81 20.42
9 967 43.90 20.44
8 975 44.63 20.61
7 964 43.63 20.38
6 961 43.36 20.32
5 969 44.08 20.48
4 959 43.18 20.27
3 959 43.18 20.27
2 954 42.73 20.17
1 954 42.73 20.17
Average: 968.64
StdDev: 9.25
Min: 953
Max: 983
Spread: 30
True MV: 968.97
Shots/sec: 0.12
Group Size (IN): 0.00
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Look, just send me your Disco. It is obviously being ignored by you.
The Monkey
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Inventing a new word for people that love SPA pcp airguns: SPAddict.
You're ignoring that pistol... and I'm having a hard time avoiding buying an M10
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I swapped out the other trigger sear and wow does it make a big difference! Hope to stretch it out to 50yds tomorrow
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Now you just need to slap a .357 barrel on it. ;D These look like great guns for the money.
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I'm still continuing to restrain myself and hopefully the next time I check the Mrodair site they won't be on sale anymore, I need another gun like I need a hole in the head.
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Not gonna lie for the money I'm very impressed! Was going to get a Maximus but by the time I added a TKO and upgraded the trigger I was already at the same cost of this gun and that's not even with an RVA. It's still lightweight and also very very powerful yet can be turned down to 25 fpe by swapping the reduced transfer port included in this deal along with the 2 stage sear.
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Heck yeah, the M-10 is a great option for anyone thinking about buying a disco or some other inexpensive rifle. At least while they are on sale with extras.
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Bought one. Following.
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I'm anxiously waiting for my M10 to arrive today, I also ordered the pistol.
These look like great project rifles, or super powered .22 if left stock.
I started off with the Darkside of airguns, I can't believe I went this long without ordering one.
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I thought about getting one for my son . If they would take pay pal I would have owned one. A bit leary of the Chinese airguns though .
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This is my 2nd SPA and not going to lie I'm very impressed with there guns. I've been hearing alot of great things about them lately that I just have a feeling that these guys are pretty good at building airguns. PCPs at least that I've tried
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Good looking guns...can they be filled with benji pump....
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Oh yeah I don't see why not. I believe around a 250cc airtube and how mines setup from factory only going to fill to around 180 bar or 2600psi
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I guess I needed to lead the barrel up some before doing accuracy testing. 25 yards again to sight in the scope left is 5 shots with barracudas and right is 5 with JSB monsters. I'm assuming the one was a bad pellet but it was a pretty decent breeze going and very variable that could have messed the groups up as well. No 50yd testing in the wind. The upgraded trigger part really makes the trigger a lot nicer and usable
(https://s6.postimg.org/g6j4g57ox/IMG_20170314_093449426.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/e1yrf2625/)
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Good looking guns...can they be filled with benji pump....
I will find out if the Benji pump will work today, I'm really looking forward to the one piece fill probe.
Saves me the cost of buying yet another foster fitting.
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I can fill my SPA pistol all the way (220 bar) using my Benji pump. No reason a 200-bar rifle can't be filled the same.
I thought about getting one for my son . If they would take pay pal I would have owned one. A bit leary of the Chinese airguns though .
And about fears concerning Chinese PCPs... no concerns. SPA has been at the major tradeshows for a few years, they have a number of patents, and they put affordable bullpups on the map. The PCP pistol they offer is a steal for what it offers, and the machine-work and attention to detail is quite good at any cost. SPA has some new PCPs on the horizon, and with the price they sell for, I know I won't be the only SPAddict.
You can also buy the SPA guns at Krale-Schietsport in the Netherlands (like I did) or from Aceros-de-Hispania in Spain (as several other members here have done). Both companies offer several different SPA PCPs. Krale has less expensive shipping but Aceros has a larger variety of offerings. Pick your poison- you cannot lose with a SPA PCP.
Also- Aceros-de-Hispania takes Pay-Pal.
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Am glad I removed my BUY button, I hope it sells out!
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Was all set to buy a Maximus for 190- delivered - THEN I SAW THIS DEAL - M-10 .22 PCP BLOWOUT !!!
So I ordered mine today ;D
Can you share your scope setup?
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The Varmint looks like it would be a good carry rifle.
But dang that barrel is way up there.
I guess that would make a half shroud pretty easy though since the barrel band is so far back too.
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My M10 arrived on Tuesday (ordered the previous Friday) and just shot a few over the chrony this evening. Like you, I am impressed with what you get for the money spent. I already own a P12 so knew what to expect for build quality and my M10 did not disappoint. I have not examined it with a microscope, but have not found any noticable imperfections yet. While the gun looks a bit bulky, it is actually pretty light weight, just a tad over 7 lbs and feels much lighter than the Hatsans, for example, especially the BT65 I used to have. First and second stage trigger pull are both a bit too long out of the box, but that can be fixed. The air tank on mine was empty when I took it out of the box, but I had no problem filling it with my Hill pump. (well it did require a beer break before it was completely filled :D)
My two planned pellets of choice were the 21 gn Cudas and the 25.4 gn JSB Jumbo Monsters, so I am happy to see some potentially good groupings with those pellets. My P12 shoots the Cudas very accurately at 40 ft lbs, and I would love to see the M10 shooting something with accuracy at 50 ft lbs. My chrony was showing 45 ft lbs out of the box so I know that 50 ft lbs is achievable. Even at these power levels I was plesantly surprised that the stock LDC did a pretty good job, and probably will not need to be replaced for field hunting.
Thanks for posting your experiences with the M10 so far, I will continue to monitor and post to this thread about my experiences as well.
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I'd like to see how the Monsters keep working... I haven't found a gun, yet, that likes them (s510, s410, Talon, Mutant, Kral BP, PRod), but if the M10 is it, I will seriously think about one just for that thump.
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I'm curious to see if anyone tries the H&N Rabbit Magnums 25.6gr https://www.pyramydair.com/product/h-n-rabbit-magnum-ii-22-cal-25-62-grains-cylindrical-solid-200ct?p=783 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/h-n-rabbit-magnum-ii-22-cal-25-62-grains-cylindrical-solid-200ct?p=783)
or the Eun Jin 28.4 https://www.pyramydair.com/product/eun-jin-22-cal-28-5-grains-domed-125ct?p=194 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/eun-jin-22-cal-28-5-grains-domed-125ct?p=194)
I'm about due for a pellet order, I'm waiting for one of PA's free shipping sales, should be about time for one. UPS shows my rifle will arrive Friday.
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I just got some of the H&N rabbit Magnums yesterday that I will be trying out. And will keep testing the JSB monsters. Hopefully today if the wind dies down
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My M10 arrived on Tuesday (ordered the previous Friday) and just shot a few over the chrony this evening. Like you, I am impressed with what you get for the money spent. I already own a P12 so knew what to expect for build quality and my M10 did not disappoint. I have not examined it with a microscope, but have not found any noticable imperfections yet. While the gun looks a bit bulky, it is actually pretty light weight, just a tad over 7 lbs and feels much lighter than the Hatsans, for example, especially the BT65 I used to have. First and second stage trigger pull are both a bit too long out of the box, but that can be fixed. The air tank on mine was empty when I took it out of the box, but I had no problem filling it with my Hill pump. (well it did require a beer break before it was completely filled :D)
My two planned pellets of choice were the 21 gn Cudas and the 25.4 gn JSB Jumbo Monsters, so I am happy to see some potentially good groupings with those pellets. My P12 shoots the Cudas very accurately at 40 ft lbs, and I would love to see the M10 shooting something with accuracy at 50 ft lbs. My chrony was showing 45 ft lbs out of the box so I know that 50 ft lbs is achievable. Even at these power levels I was plesantly surprised that the stock LDC did a pretty good job, and probably will not need to be replaced for field hunting.
Thanks for posting your experiences with the M10 so far, I will continue to monitor and post to this thread about my experiences as well.
I'm glad you like it for the money! I couldn't find any imperfections on mine at all and yes it looks heavier than it is
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I would suggest trying some JSB UltraShocks in there, especially if you can hit 50fpe.
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I would suggest trying some JSB UltraShocks in there, especially if you can hit 50fpe.
+1
The JSB Ultrashocks are accurate in every one of my .177 guns, even my 760 pumper which sort of lobs them... but with consistency :D Needless to say, Sniper Magnums are a must. Very consistent with the ones I've mic'd and weighed. I'm sure both are just as good in .22 with SPA barrels as the .177 are.
If MRodAir took PayPal, I'd have one on the way. As it is, I'm looking at the M10s at Aceros... I just like the Cometa Orion SPR a teensy bit more.
~~~ I already own a P12 so knew what to expect for build quality ~~~ My P12 shoots the Cudas very accurately at 40 ft lbs
The P-12 is one of the only guns (beside the M10) that is tempting me away from my next purchase, likely the Orion SPR. Did you have a separate thread about your P-12?
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The JSB Monsters are too inconsistent to use. Some dead on some fliers an inch in every direction. So not going to go with them. Tried the H&N Rabbit Magnum 2 and they were OK not great. Tried JSB Ultrashocks also some as rabbit Magnums OK not great. Only issue is they are hard to seat in with the bolt feels like they get stuck on the barrel port.
Now back to the H&N barracudas I'm just gonna leave this here 5 shots at 25yds.
(https://s6.postimg.org/yepnffj1t/IMG_20170316_192144294.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/4a16u2dyl/)
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Cleaned the M10 barrel, did a once over for loose screws and shot more over the chrony this afternoon. Discovered I need more hammer spring if I fill to 20 bar, velocity at that pressure starts in low 700 fps with 21 gn Cudas. About 20 or so shots later I am nearing 15 bar and the fps has risen into the low 900's. A few more shots and I am in the mid 900's and still rising. I switched to JSB 25.4 gn and peaked at about 926 fps (about 48 ft lbs) when I started hearing the dreaded hiss from the bolt area. The gun was leaking air from the valve area and continued to do so until a few more shots when it stopped leaking again. I refilled to a little over 15 bar and will let it sit overnight and see if it is still leaking tomorrow. I hope it is just the new seals setting in and maybe the leak will disappear with a few more shots.
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The JSB Monsters are too inconsistent to use. Some dead on some fliers an inch in every direction. So not going to go with them. Tried the H&N Rabbit Magnum 2 and they were OK not great. Tried JSB Ultrashocks also some as rabbit Magnums OK not great. Only issue is they are hard to seat in with the bolt feels like they get stuck on the barrel port.
Now back to the H&N barracudas I'm just gonna leave this here 5 shots at 25yds.
(https://s6.postimg.org/yepnffj1t/IMG_20170316_192144294.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/4a16u2dyl/)
This 5 shot teaser is awesome. I looked for a .25 cal on the site, but could not find one. I was impressed on what they did have for the price.
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Well, the M10 continued to leak air so I let it leak down, drained the tank, and took it apart. I bought this rifle as an inexpensive gun to learn more, so taking it all the way down to the valve was an adventure and learning experience. The hammer and hammer spring had a great amount of thick gook from the factory and that was the first thing that got cleaned. Once I had the barrel off it was the next piece to get a good going over, and it had more gunk than I thought . The tank was next and looked clean, totally virgin, no de-pinger or anything else, just tank. Trigger parts also had some goo so they got cleaned, and the new adjustable trigger part was installed. (made a big difference) I did notice that the safety is no longer functional with the new trigger part, but thanks to another forum member for the idea, that is easily fixed. All the internals had various slime/goo that was all cleaned and lubed as necessary. Aside from the factory goop, the internals of the gun looked in great shape, so I moved on to the leaky valve. After disasembly, the parts looked in good shape and I couldn't see any trash, but I cleaned all the internals and the valve parts and put everything back together.
Now the hard part, the tank was totally empty and I fill all my guns with a hand pump... I cocked the bolt to allow the valve to seat more easily and began the exercise routine. About 75 strokes or so later I was up to about 10 mpa. I disconnected and did not hear any leaking. (great news) Shot a couple of 25 gn pellets and even at 10 mpa, it was pretty apparent that the gun was putting out more power than before. Still no hissing so hopefully I fixed the leak during the teardown.
I have worked on the P12 in the past, but have not taken it down to the level I did the M10. I thank all the forum members that have gone before me and provided insight into the internal workings of the M10, that gave me the confidence to tackle a complete teardown.
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Hmmmmm that's very interesting Steve, I am very skeptical about the Chinese products but it sounds like yours is really turning out good so far!
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Well, the M10 continued to leak air so I let it leak down, drained the tank, and took it apart. I bought this rifle as an inexpensive gun to learn more, so taking it all the way down to the valve was an adventure and learning experience. The hammer and hammer spring had a great amount of thick gook from the factory and that was the first thing that got cleaned. Once I had the barrel off it was the next piece to get a good going over, and it had more gunk than I thought . The tank was next and looked clean, totally virgin, no de-pinger or anything else, just tank. Trigger parts also had some goo so they got cleaned, and the new adjustable trigger part was installed. (made a big difference) I did notice that the safety is no longer functional with the new trigger part, but thanks to another forum member for the idea, that is easily fixed. All the internals had various slime/goo that was all cleaned and lubed as necessary. Aside from the factory goop, the internals of the gun looked in great shape, so I moved on to the leaky valve. After disasembly, the parts looked in good shape and I couldn't see any trash, but I cleaned all the internals and the valve parts and put everything back together.
Now the hard part, the tank was totally empty and I fill all my guns with a hand pump... I cocked the bolt to allow the valve to seat more easily and began the exercise routine. About 75 strokes or so later I was up to about 10 mpa. I disconnected and did not hear any leaking. (great news) Shot a couple of 25 gn pellets and even at 10 mpa, it was pretty apparent that the gun was putting out more power than before. Still no hissing so hopefully I fixed the leak during the teardown.
I have worked on the P12 in the past, but have not taken it down to the level I did the M10. I thank all the forum members that have gone before me and provided insight into the internal workings of the M10, that gave me the confidence to tackle a complete teardown.
All in all, sounds like SPA was overzealous with how much preservative they slopped in there. Better too much than not enough, and it looks like you got some great experience digging in. Nothing like doing a teardown and being rewarded with better operation.
Ya know, you really outta pick up one of the SPA PP700 pistols so you have the full trifecta of Awesomeness. I'm having a really hard time not ordering an M10, and one of the SPA bullpups will eventually make it into my hands.
Wayne- don't be afraid to bite the Chinese bullet (pellet?)... You see the reviews. SPA is making good PCPs. Are they Daystates? Nope. but they are built solid and meant to be used, and don't cost near what a Daystate does. I've been tickled pink with my pistol. If you operate on a tight budget or are a cheap-guy like me, grab you one and go make some holes in stuff. SPA is continuously improving their process and every year they put out some great new products. I mean, for the money (2740 for the M10 from MRodAir) you get a powerhouse, for $200 you get a wildly-adjustable pistol. Yup, under $500 gives you a lot of single-shot shooting fun!
Side note: an HPA CP-1M would be a welcome mix. Think of it as the Varminter pistol. Uses same magazines and no more co2.
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Mine was my intro to PCPs and I've had a lot of fun with it. I also recognize it for what it is. I think I need to replace the breech seal, but that's OK too. Seems reasonably accurate-a little on the loud side compared to some of the others, but a lot of fun (wow sounds like I'm describing an old girl friend).
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Good news, I was out of town most of the weekend, but upon return I checked and the M10 is holding air perfectly so far. Ready to mount a scope now and see what this one likes.
Seems as though the China manufacturers, at least SPA, has stepped up their game for sure. My P12 is a delight, accurate and powerful (easily 40 ft lbs with 21 gn Cudas, shot count in the low 20's at that power), and now that MrodAir has dropped the price, a no brainer if you don't mind single shot.
As for the PP700, the only reason that I have not yet gone down that path is I have a Hatsan Supercharger Vortex that has stood the time as my "yard gun" and is quite accurate. I am thinking about selling my Hatsan 125 Vortex .22, and if I do the PP700 is next on my list.
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Mine was my intro to PCPs and I've had a lot of fun with it. I also recognize it for what it is. I think I need to replace the breech seal, but that's OK too. Seems reasonably accurate-a little on the loud side compared to some of the others, but a lot of fun (wow sounds like I'm describing an old girl friend).
If someone starts selling good quality o-rings prekitted for the M10 I think they will get a lot of business soon.
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Mine was my intro to PCPs and I've had a lot of fun with it. I also recognize it for what it is. I think I need to replace the breech seal, but that's OK too. Seems reasonably accurate-a little on the loud side compared to some of the others, but a lot of fun (wow sounds like I'm describing an old girl friend).
If someone starts selling good quality o-rings prekitted for the M10 I think they will get a lot of business soon.
Mark I don't see any reason why a person couldn't buy the metric ones, there's all different sizes on many different source's that are available. The Buna 70 duro would be good I would think. You'd just have to measure what you need is all.
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I'm curious to see if anyone tries the H&N Rabbit Magnums 25.6gr https://www.pyramydair.com/product/h-n-rabbit-magnum-ii-22-cal-25-62-grains-cylindrical-solid-200ct?p=783 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/h-n-rabbit-magnum-ii-22-cal-25-62-grains-cylindrical-solid-200ct?p=783)
or the Eun Jin 28.4 https://www.pyramydair.com/product/eun-jin-22-cal-28-5-grains-domed-125ct?p=194 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/eun-jin-22-cal-28-5-grains-domed-125ct?p=194)
I'm about due for a pellet order, I'm waiting for one of PA's free shipping sales, should be about time for one. UPS shows my rifle will arrive Friday.
My M10 really really likes the 28 Gr EunJins, and the 32 grain pointed SamYangs or EunJins or whatever they are labeled as. It will shoot either one as accurately as the other out to 50 yards with the only difference being a slight elevation change. If you're going to run the M10 hot, try em out, you may be surprised....
My M10 is an older one and is pretty much running wide open as it came from Mrodair. The only mods I have done is the trigger sear mod that I did myself after seeing the pictures of the Mrodair version, and I installed a bottle brush depinger. My M10 pinged like mad without it.
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Charles if I do end up buying the M10 I'll definitely be going for the power, I've seen good results on youtube videos with the pellets you suggested, looks like this gun comes to your door as a powerhouse to begin with. I'm also really interested in the big bore upgrades that Mrodair is planning for this gun as well, I think it would be a good platform for a .357 by the sound of it.
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Roger that on Plan A,
Unbox it, descuzz it, and try it with some of the heavies before you decide to down tune or fiddle about with it.
I get right at 20 good shots that I can knock a squirrel sideways with, before it starts dropping off at range.
I have thought about a Huma regulator for it, to maybe get a few more shots with less of a curve, but it hasn't failed so far so I left it alone. I'm easily pleased...........
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I'm curious to see if anyone tries the H&N Rabbit Magnums 25.6gr https://www.pyramydair.com/product/h-n-rabbit-magnum-ii-22-cal-25-62-grains-cylindrical-solid-200ct?p=783 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/h-n-rabbit-magnum-ii-22-cal-25-62-grains-cylindrical-solid-200ct?p=783)
or the Eun Jin 28.4 https://www.pyramydair.com/product/eun-jin-22-cal-28-5-grains-domed-125ct?p=194 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/eun-jin-22-cal-28-5-grains-domed-125ct?p=194)
I'm about due for a pellet order, I'm waiting for one of PA's free shipping sales, should be about time for one. UPS shows my rifle will arrive Friday.
My M10 really really likes the 28 Gr EunJins, and the 32 grain pointed SamYangs or EunJins or whatever they are labeled as. It will shoot either one as accurately as the other out to 50 yards with the only difference being a slight elevation change. If you're going to run the M10 hot, try em out, you may be surprised....
My M10 is an older one and is pretty much running wide open as it came from Mrodair. The only mods I have done is the trigger sear mod that I did myself after seeing the pictures of the Mrodair version, and I installed a bottle brush depinger. My M10 pinged like mad without it.
Charles, I got mine delivered this past Friday and was able to try it out Saturday putting a scope on and mine is the same way. It likes the 28.5 Eunjins also. It could be set to shoot the 14.3 cphp's that wally likes to sell, but why bother. I had the chrony set up also and it was pushing the 28.5s at about 860fps which puts it around 46-47 foot pounds. If the power could be turned up a little bit more you could fire off some heavier slugs through it. I am totally happy with it. If I want heavier, I'll just use my .25 cal Condor and put a 48 or 49gr in it and give something a real bad headache...lol Here's a pic I i made just a little while ago while out back. Oh, and the green dot is the exact size of a penny.
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Can only post about the preference mine had, and each barrel is different.
With thr "out the box" tune, it really didn't shoot great until pellet weight got to +25 grains/ 46-50 foot pounds.
Haven't tested them all, but of the ones I tested, thse were the favorites:
JSB 34gr. (but I had a limited number...had to "beg" them from a buddy)
28.4gr. EunJin
JSB 25.39gr.
21.14 H&N Baracuda
32.4gr. EunJin
Not as good were the H&N Rabbit mag II's, and anything under 20gr. in weight.
Will retest the above. HAve toned it down to the low 40's in energy, and the slower speeds might help some of the lower placed pellets.
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Those rifles seen to love shooting heavy. Not bad, you all.
The 🐒
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How many shots were you guys getting in the 'out of the box' state of tune, or running full bore? At 25 to 30 Yds. I've never tried past 20 shots, and less than that at 50 before they start dropping.
I'm still kicking around getting a HUMA reg. for it, but know bumpkis about setting one up, other than install and shoot.
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Looks like the sale on the M10 is over, been wondering just how long the sale was going to last.
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As the website says, until they run out.
You can still buy them from Aceros de Hispania, both the single-shot and repeater breech versions. No idea if there's many differences. But you CAN buy it in .177, .22, and .25.
The Aceros M-10 (http://www.aceros-de-hispania.com/hunting-products.asp?product=caza-hunting-pcp010)
... as well as Krale-Shietsport (in regulated and non-regulated versions): The Krale version of the M-10 (https://www.krale-schietsport.nl/en/spa-m10-combo.html)
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Recieived a .22 M10 this week. As others have noted, lots of heavy grease inside that needs to be cleaned up but overall very similar build quality to the Varmint .177 I've already received which is to say apparently very good.
The M10 Trigger can be greatly improved-
1)Install the adjustable sear (included with the one I received) and deburr both sears and trigger. I lightly polished the sides of both sears and the trigger and gave a good polish to all sear contact surfaces. The long middle sear supplied with the adjustment screw did have noticeable machining marks on the surface that the trigger screw contacts and that took quite a bit to smooth).
2)Remove the short screw for trigger adjustment on the trigger as it contacts the middle sear on it's flat (open hex or adjusting end) portion of the screw and not on the rounded end. The trigger is drilled/tapped and the screw is then threaded into that blind hole so the hex open end was the spot that contacts the middle sear. This is really not a good setup. I found another screw that would fit then cut it to length and rounded/polished the cut end. You then have to adjust it with needle nose pliers from the side but it works well and really does smooth up the pull. The longer screw on the trigger is to adjust initial pull length and can be left as is with no impact to trigger smoothness.
3)I put lighter springs under the middle sear and trigger leaving the stock heavier spring on the main sear that catches the hammer. Seems to work very well but as always, be safe.
4)I took the strange little safety button out (remove the hex screw from the trigger and don't loose the little spring and ball that will fall out), spun it up in the drill press and used a dremel cutoff wheel to shorten the middle raised ring. This allows the safety to move much more smoothly from safe to fire and allows you to adjust the tension screw to reach a really good safety function. I also shortened the right end of the safety button (the on safe end) and polished it as it was protruding just enough out of the trigger when on fire to drag on the trigger guard. It's still a pretty strange safety setup but it can be made to function easily and reliably.
Mine arrived with no air charge at all so I need to work up the energy to pump it up. I started the process to order one of the Tuxing 110V compressors that have been discussed but that will take well over two weeks to complete so it's hand pump only till then. It's pretty easy on the Varmint and should be on the pistol but the M10 probably takes some effort. I'll post trigger pull weight and some chronograph info for this one and the Varmint over the next few days if weather permits.
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Just over 300 pumps to 2800 psi from empty-broken up over 4 sessions each about 3 minutes long. Pretty heavy on the last 75 or so and I am about 230 lbs. Noticeable ping on firing cycle but trigger feels great. Mounted an 8-32x56 Leapers EZTap scope in Sportsmatch fully adjustable mounts that I took off a Diana 460 this evening (think I'll put the open rear sight back on the 460 for now). This combination could mount slightly lower in relation to the barrel but the high comb makes it a comfortable position. Hopefully will get to zero and see how it shoots tomorrow-a box from PA arrived today with a bunch of 25 and 18 grain JSB's.
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Looking forward to your results! Mine loves 21gr barracudas
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I'll order some of the Barracudas today since I was going to order some Ultrashock JSB's anyway. Some people have posted that they don't shoot well until you get over 25 grains so good to know the 21 grains are working for you. Checked trigger pull weight this morning after the work I have described in several posts-1lb 4oz with no creep and clean break.
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I was just reading a thread earlier about them ultra shocks, I'll bet they'd be good in the M10 or a beefed up Mrod for that matter.
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In mine the JSB monsters and ultra shocks were just OK. The Barracudas are extremely consistent. I shot 25 shots the other day at 25yds same POA and all within a quarter. Could barely keep 5 inside a quarter with the others let alone a full shot string. And at 950-980fps got a nice flat trajectory.
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Are you using the basic Barracuda's or one of the match versions?
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If I could ask ...presently at $269. What did u guys get them on sale for.....thanks
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If I could ask ...presently at $269. What did u guys get them on sale for.....thanks
Guys are posting that the "$269 shipped" special price deal is sold out now (I haven't tried to verify that)...but that's what I paid.
.................why....want to make an offer? 8) ;D
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I believe 269 was the sale price. Their website states if you can add it to your cart it is available. May be showing the sale price but no longer available.
You beat me to the post-my invoice shows 269. See above post.
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Are you using the basic Barracuda's or one of the match versions?
Basics but I have the match to try still. Don't expect much different results but who knows
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Out the box, just cleaned up...before playing with transfer ports/etc....mine shot "normal" weight pellets a bit too fast. Loud, but considering the energy level, I'd expect it to be.
Really demonstrated the usefulness of heavy .22's, which indicates it's moving a lot of air per shot in stock form (suspect it wouldn't be hard to mod the system to move even more air).
18.1gr. 998fps 40fpe
21gr. 970fps 43.9 fpe
25.4gr. 945fps 50.4 fpe
48.3gr. (bullet) 743fps 60.3fpe (too long to shoot well at all)
I ran out of anything heavier that I could make fit the barrel or I'd have kept going just to see where it would slow down enough to show lower energy.
At least a few posters have converted them to 30 or 357, but I haven't read of any .25's (yet).
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I believe 269 was the sale price. Their website states if you can add it to your cart it is available. May be showing the sale price but no longer available.
You beat me to the post-my invoice shows 269. See above post.
Shows currently not in stock...FYI I was just curious....but I do like the varmit as a alternate,,,LOL....thanks
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At least a few posters have converted them to 30 or 357, but I haven't read of any .25's (yet).
Im working on that. JSB shoot very out to 40hd but at 50yd they open way up. The EunJin 32gr did moderate, close to 1.5in group (in the pic). Still need to run some numbers, but probably 26-30in barrel with a more aggressive twist in .25 is the plan.
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I've had a 177 Varmint for a short time and received an M10 this week. The Varmint is surprisingly accurate, quite powerful for a 177, and very light and easy to handle. I would not hesitate to buy one if you don't absolutely need the maximum energy of a 22. The M10 does seem by all accounts to be extremely powerful in stock form and apparently can be tuned either hotter or slowed down some-I haven't had a chance to shoot mine yet but I've cleaned it up and worked the trigger. I would not hesitate to buy another Varmint.
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Shot the M10 today for the first time. 18 gr. JSB's were doing 650fps. Obviously something was wrong so I emptied the cylinder and started full disassembly. Noted that the screw under the loading tray that holds the breech to the tube was not tight but elected proceed with disassembly and check. Took it completely down, removed all the heavy grease, checked all O-rings and lubed with Krytox, polished a few sharp edges off the hammer where it was drilled, relieved/polished the bolt shoulder which was really sharp, removed 1/2 coil from the valve spring, and shimmed the hammer spring with a washer. Reassembled lubing everything lightly with Krytox and made sure all screws were tight.
Results-
18 gr. JSB's consistently around 1070 with quarter size groups at 30 yards and 25 gr. JSB's consistently around 980 with slightly smaller groups. The 25 gr. shot great but the 18 grain also seemed to be really good at that speed. Definitely a shot curve and will probably fill lower than 2900 for initial fills but it shot really well and I am more than happy with overall quality and accuracy. We'll see how things hold up.
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Just got my new M10, which may have been the last one at Mrodair. No scope rings yet, but decided to air it up. Had about 500 psi "only" took about 240 strokes of the Benjamin pump to take it to 2900 psi :P Boresnaked it for a while with some Goo Gone, dropped in a 28.6 gr. pellet and took it outside. Fired into a 2" x 6" wood board to make sure it would function and to gauge loudness, not too bad, for a rural area, at least. Imagine my surprise when I turned over the board and there was an EXIT hole!
Can't wait to get it scoped and start shooting.
Having absolutely zero gunsmithing experience, arthritic fingers and somewhat shaky hands, I'm hoping somebody does a video about installing the adjustable sear and transfer port.
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Can't say anything about the transfer port as I haven't removed it-mine had the large port in place and that's what I wanted. The sear is really pretty easy mechanically but can be a bit "fiddly" to install due to the small springs that you have to line up and then place the entire trigger mechanism over and make sure that they stay aligned. It's not that bad but if you have arthritic fingers it may be a little difficult.
The entire trigger mechanism lifts off with 2 screws removed and the 2 sears and the trigger are held in place with 3 pins that come out very easily. It's really an extremely simple trigger mechanism. I did it that way and after polishing/installing the sears I aligned the 2 sear springs and lowered the trigger housing over them and then installed the trigger lastly. There are shallow holes in the main tube that the small springs and the trigger spring all sit in but you still have to align them with the sears which also have holes drilled in them for the other end of the springs to sit in. If you aren't going to polish all sears, you could probably leave the trigger housing in place and just remove the back pin and the trigger and then remove the middle pin and the stock sear. Then you install the adjustable sear just as the stock one came out but you have to align the spring and simultaneously put the pin back in place. The trigger and it's spring and pin are easier to align. Hope this helps but again the alignment is a bit difficult due to the small size of the sear springs and limited visibility. Others may have a different suggestion but making a video of this small area would probably be pretty difficult.
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A trip into the trigger.
Supplied an extra trigger part with an adjusting allen screw. Issue trigger has NO screw adjustments.
1. Two screws how the stock to the metal, the trigger guard will pass up though the stock.
2. Guard held on by two screws. It has no moving parts, is just a shield for the trigger.
3. Things go a lot smoother if at this point you take the end cap OFF the rifle to release the striker spring and place the striker all the way back to the rear. Basically get the striker out of the way.
4. Trigger system itself is held on by two screws.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/M10/2365245b-3274-468c-b45d-2416541e3363.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/M10/2365245b-3274-468c-b45d-2416541e3363.jpg.html)
5. Poking down from the trigger (this is an upside down view..rifle at bottom, trigger at top) are two pins and 3 little springs. The two little ones want to fall out and get lost. Pluck the two little ones out right away and keep them safe (the large one at the rear tends to want to stay in it's recess and not fall out).
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/M10/c318868e-d695-4be3-bea2-c8f03f6c46c8.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/M10/c318868e-d695-4be3-bea2-c8f03f6c46c8.jpg.html)
6. Worth noting at this time that the bigger spring powers the trigger, so it has something to do with trigger weight. I didn't change it (at least not yet). Also note there is a little round "port" that lets you see the sear engagement.
7. Are three pins that run though the trigger housing. Each is a pivot point for these 3 internal parts:
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/M10/837df0c8-0508-456b-9aa0-99930a4217e8.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/M10/837df0c8-0508-456b-9aa0-99930a4217e8.jpg.html)
8. This is the part you want to swap. The "bonus" part being the one with the set screw.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/M10/0d83140f-b735-44de-87b9-682020895af2.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/M10/0d83140f-b735-44de-87b9-682020895af2.jpg.html)
9. I would say "assemble in reverse order", but getting all 3 of those springs to line up right isn't as easy as it sounds at first. PLEASE, go back to # 3 if you skipped that.
10. Assembled, but with the guard itself off, will see this little allen. Adjusting that adjusts the sear engagment.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/M10/5c50c5d7-dfdb-46ef-b167-a7a3a0138cf8.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/M10/5c50c5d7-dfdb-46ef-b167-a7a3a0138cf8.jpg.html)
11. WARNING: New gun, new part. It's going to wear in. Wearing in always makes the trigger lighter. IF you adjust to a lite release now, will be constantly back in readjusting the trigger. SETTLE on a harder than wanted pull and THEN shoot it a few 100 times.
12. From here on in, to adjust the trigger will need to destock the rifle and remove the trigger guard. That will expose that little set screw for sear adjustment. OR...you could drill a hole though the stock in line with that little allen screw and adjust the sear without tanking the trigger guard off.
PROBLEM: adjusting trigger/getting safety to work.
Understanding how the safety works: it's a cross bolt though the trigger (which is a pretty dumb place to put a safety....really want to tocuh the trigger to put the rifle ON SAFE?). When on, the rotation of the trigger brins the head of the cross bolt in contact before the sear trips.
PROBLEM is this, if you adjust the trigger as above, the sear trips before the little cross bolt has a chance to touch the trigger guard.
Adjusted, the sear trips BEFORE the cross bolt contacts the trigger guard, so the rifle will fire whn on safe.
Now I've been ignoring the safety all along, and could just continue to ignore it, but I really dislike having parts on a rifle that are supose to work, but don't. IF I made it work, I could still ignore it, but it wouldn't be "broken-&^^&" dangling off my rifle.
So I thought on it. Can't make the button fatter or it won't push in and out... and you'd be stuck "on safe" all the time. Could build up the edge of the trigger guard so it makes contact sooner, but that has a kind of "glue-on-bit-of-shim" kind of look.
Little light when off in my head: The trigger guard does nothing. Has no moving parts, is seperate from the actually trigger-guts, and is just a shell.
So I put two little washers between the trigger guard and the trigger unit, which moved the gaurd "down", contacting the little cross bolt early enough to make the safety functional.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/M10/558f22ea-b8b5-4899-92d9-9c593e0d0f11.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/M10/558f22ea-b8b5-4899-92d9-9c593e0d0f11.jpg.html)
Now I can go back to ignoring the safety...but know it will work if I ever really need it to.
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I'm anxiously waiting for my M10 to arrive today, I also ordered the pistol.
These look like great project rifles, or super powered .22 if left stock.
I started off with the Darkside of airguns, I can't believe I went this long without ordering one.
How long did it take to arrive?
I bought one but mrodair did not or has not provided a tracking number so I have no idea what's going on I bought mine Friday 17 today it's the 28th and after many emails and phone calls mrodair has not responded
Oh well tomorrow I go to my po box hopefully it's there already
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I ordered mine on the 18th and it did not arrive until the 27th. This was without having to pass through customs. Mrodair does not do ANY hand holding, but they seem to do what they say they will and sell a fine product at a great price. They shipped my gun on the Monday following my Saturday order, but did not take the simple step of emailing me a shipping confirmation with a tracking #. I tend to be pretty patient and easygoing, but I realize not everybody is. I think Mrodair would be a much bigger vendor with some small communications changes.
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Ribbonstone - I saved your treatise on the trigger for eventual inclusion on the M10 book when we get enough stuff compiled, if that's okay with you.
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If you are compiling an M10 "book"...great. Not sure they sold in the numbers to make them as popular as the BAM's, but the information would have a lot of cross-over value for anyone working on a non-regulated PCP>
I'll get back to it....nephew took my Disco. M10, even somewhat down tuned, was just more than he needed.
Been pharting around with pistols/red dots. After work time is limited, but I've got an idea for the M-10 that needs trying out....maybe Sat.
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So I got the M10 now.
And inmedietly inboxed it at tryied to pump it with air but nothing the fill prove was leaking.
I changed the o rings with the spare orings that came with the gun but nothing. Still leaking
What size o ring does the fill probe uses?
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So I got the M10 now.
And inmedietly inboxed it at tryied to pump it with air but nothing the fill prove was leaking.
I changed the o rings with the spare orings that came with the gun but nothing. Still leaking
What size o ring does the fill probe uses?
I went through something like that, I thought the fill probe was leaking but it was the fill assembly itself leaking. I unscrewed it from the front of the air tube, replace the o-ring and silicon greased it, and put a wrap of yellow Teflon tape on the threads for good measure. Put it back together and Tada! Leak free gun fills fine.
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Great pictures on the trigger mechanism. This is what I noted and have done to adjust mine (it can be adjusted but it is an odd arrangement)-
I put a lighter spring under the trigger. It was slightly longer than the stock spring providing a little preload but noticeably lighter. I also polished all engaging surfaces of the sears. The most polishing was needed on the long flat section where the small trigger screw contacts the sear as that area had machining marks that could be felt with a fingernail.
The long screw on the trigger passes THROUGH the long adjustable sear. You can see the hole in the sear that it goes through. That long screw functions only as a takeup adjustment and it doesn't actually contact the sear. It has a very small hex opening for an allen wrench in that flat end as does the short screw. The flat end isn't an issue on this screw since it doesn't actually slide on a sear it just rests on the tube to function as a stop for initial takeup length. I just lightly polished it's flat end to prevent future wear in.
The short screw on the trigger is really the fine trigger adjustment. Note the flat end on that one as well. That is a problem and needs to be changed. I took the short screw out, found a screw in my parts bin that would fit, screwed it in to the sear tightly to be able to hold it well, then cut the screw to length (just short of the height of the square block on the trigger) and rounded/polished the cut end. I put some Teflon tape on the short screw to try to eliminate any walking in or out and was able to adjust the trigger to perfectly function with the safety button by balancing the adjustment of the long and short screws. I set the sear depth adjustment where I wanted it first then kept adjusting the long and short screws until I had a very nice trigger pull AND the safety button works as designed. You do have to adjust the replacement short screw with pliers from the side as the end is now rounded/polished and has no slot or hex to adjust. It is still a strange design arrangement as noted but it can be made to function very well.
The result was a very stable trigger that does not fire with any bumping and provides a short crisp pull at about 1 lb and 3-4 oz as measured with my Wheeler manual guage. Quality of the trigger is now more than acceptable for me (little to no creep, light and crisp) but easier adjustment would be appreciated. I usually turn the rifle a little sideways to be able to see and release the tiny safety button that sits very close to the trigger guard but it does function reliably when engaged. I have another post about some changes I made to the safety button and it's ball and spring adjustment mechanism that really makes it easier to engage and release.
The bottom line is that the design of this trigger mechanism has inherent shortcomings but they can be relatively well overcome to reach a very nice trigger. Hope this helps all the M10 owners and thanks for the above pictures.
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So I got the M10 now.
And inmedietly inboxed it at tryied to pump it with air but nothing the fill prove was leaking.
I changed the o rings with the spare orings that came with the gun but nothing. Still leaking
What size o ring does the fill probe uses?
I went through something like that, I thought the fill probe was leaking but it was the fill assembly itself leaking. I unscrewed it from the front of the air tube, replace the o-ring and silicon greased it, and put a wrap of yellow Teflon tape on the threads for good measure. Put it back together and Tada! Leak free gun fills fine.
In this case it is the fill probe I press my fingers at one of he ends while pumping and the air came out at the other end towards the probe
So I'm looking for o rings right know
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I'm not trying to insult your intelligence, I just don't know if you've been around PCPs much....
You know that the o-rings should have a little silicon grease on them to help the seal?
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When my pcp's are empty I have to cock them to fill them or the pressure from the hammer on the valve stem holds open the valve and air comes right out the barrel.
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I'm not trying to insult your intelligence, I just don't know if you've been around PCPs much....
You know that the o-rings should have a little silicon grease on them to help the seal?
not insulted, jaja
an yes this is my first ever pcp.
no ididnt know i needed silicone grease to help them seal, ive seen videos and thought it was for better sitting but never thought it was fot sealing.
thanks for the tip. keep them comming.
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another thing my m10 came with a sear and a brass piece what is that for? can anyone tell me?
i thought i was supouse to get a high and low power tunning components but i did not get them
just the sear and a bras fitting of some sort.
what are the hi and low power components i was suppoused to get?
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another thing my m10 came with a sear and a brass piece what is that for? can anyone tell me?
i thought i was supouse to get a high and low power tunning components but i did not get them
just the sear and a bras fitting of some sort.
what are the hi and low power components i was suppoused to get?
If you take a look at the round brass piece, you will see that this plugs into the breech where the pellet goes into the back of the barrel. You can see that this part has a hole through the middle, but there is another hole that goes from the outside edge and intersects the middle hole. This is effectively the transfer port, it lets air pass from the valve up into the barrel. The spare has a smaller transfer port hole than the one mounted in the gun, so it is the "low power" transfer port. Be aware that even the "low Power" one is capable of a LOT of power, like 40fpe-ish.
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another thing my m10 came with a sear and a brass piece what is that for? can anyone tell me?
i thought i was supouse to get a high and low power tunning components but i did not get them
just the sear and a bras fitting of some sort.
what are the hi and low power components i was suppoused to get?
If you take a look at the round brass piece, you will see that this plugs into the breech where the pellet goes into the back of the barrel. You can see that this part has a hole through the middle, but there is another hole that goes from the outside edge and intersects the middle hole. This is effectively the transfer port, it lets air pass from the valve up into the barrel. The spare has a smaller transfer port hole than the one mounted in the gun, so it is the "low power" transfer port. Be aware that even the "low Power" one is capable of a LOT of power, like 40fpe-ish.
how do i go about changing that pice?
please explaine.
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Here's an exploded view of the M10, maybe it will help people that aren't familiar with the insides of the gun.
(http://i983.photobucket.com/albums/ae312/giant056/Airguns2/M10.exploded.view.jpg)
I enhanced it from the Mrodair pic to make it a little easier to see.
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how do i go about changing that pice?
please explaine.
the brass part is number 13 in that diagram. that said....
I wouldn't recommend you even consider that yet. First you should get some air in your gun and make sure it shoots right and holds air. You really don't want to tear the gun down and then have more than one problem to track down. Enjoy your new rifle for a little bit and get comfortable with it, then go to step 2. At least, that is what I would advise...
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Here's an exploded view of the M10, maybe it will help people that aren't familiar with the insides of the gun.
(http://i983.photobucket.com/albums/ae312/giant056/Airguns2/M10.exploded.view.jpg)
I enhanced it from the Mrodair pic to make it a little easier to see.
Is this, by chance, the repeater form of the SPA M10, rather than the single shot?
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So after many damaged O rings finally I was blue to pump air in to the rifle .
Ok so I pumped it up to 20mpa and whent out shooting Arround 7 or 7:30. Took my spot light and of I whent
Whent to an isolated place where people seems to go dirbiking and drinking man is there a whole lot of beer bottles there
So set up my beer bottles at 25,35,45,55,65 yards
Sighted the rifle and man o man o man o man. This things shoots like *(&^ crazy, the marauder right next to it sounded like I was shooting pellets from my but
But the M 10 o my God the power ( I got the power turut tut tut turu turut tut tut)
Man once sighted in the beer bottles exploded and the silencer does nothing for the rifle the thing it's loud
So my friend was happy and me with the marauder that thing was making me a little uncomfortable.
The marauder sounded like a CO2 pistol running out of CO2 jajaja, but hitting bottles like it was nothing
So 40+ shots 20mpa down to 10mpa for beer bottles up to 60 yards we could go down to 5mpa easy
But this is where it goes south once again the o ring get damaged so decided to put the stock o ring that came in the rifle just the first o ring at the tip and Wujuhhhh it worked great so now we had the stock o ring on the tip and an aftermarket o ring down by the foster end
But by he second fill after that the rifle stars liking air from the inlet hole. What tha €&¶"¿,
So today I have to take it apart and see what's cousing the intake valve to leak air( and no it's not the o ring seal at the air tube, its from the internal intake hole)
Man o man this rifle it's giving me a headache
But well what can you expect for 270 dlls right?
On the other hand my marauder it was flawless, with the exception that I didn't have the correct scope rings nor mount for the rifle, I only has weaver rings and compensating mounts for my diana 460 rifle
Since I was eagered to go an try my new toy I mounted the compensated mount and an offset single weaver mount rings and off I go.
So I ran out of adjustment on the scope IN order to hit the bottles I had to aim way low I was just able to se the bottom of the bottles on the right corner of the scope but had go go with it and shoot and have fun. So I did
Once I figured out were it was hitting bottle after bottle disappeared jajaja so what's the bottle size? 2 by 10 inches? More or less right?
Well it was fun, I don't know there's just something about those bottles shattering that really gets me going. Reactive targets nahhhh exploding bottles yay marauder 40+ shots 3000 down to 2000psi
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So i just finished fixing the M10 air leak from the intake valve took the valve off and took out the screw in the middle sprayed some cleaning lubricant put the fill probe and pumped it so if there was something in there it would get blown out
Put it back on the rifle pumped 10mpa and no leaks holding air once again Gina leave it there till tomorrow and see if it will hold the air
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So i just finished fixing the M10 air leak from the intake valve took the valve off and took out the screw in the middle sprayed some cleaning lubricant put the fill probe and pumped it so if there was something in there it would get blown out
Put it back on the rifle pumped 10mpa and no leaks holding air once again Gina leave it there till tomorrow and see if it will hold the air
Be careful what you're spraying around in there. If you introduce petroleum-based fluids into your compressed air cylinder, you could blow your gun up. In the same way that diesel fuel ignites under intense pressure, some petroleum products will ignite in a PCP.
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So i just finished fixing the M10 air leak from the intake valve took the valve off and took out the screw in the middle sprayed some cleaning lubricant put the fill probe and pumped it so if there was something in there it would get blown out
Put it back on the rifle pumped 10mpa and no leaks holding air once again Gina leave it there till tomorrow and see if it will hold the air
Be careful what you're spraying around in there. If you introduce petroleum-based fluids into your compressed air cylinder, you could blow your gun up. In the same way that diesel fuel ignites under intense pressure, some petroleum products will ignite in a PCP.
I used silicone spray lubricant, is that safe?
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If you let the carrier agent (the stuff that makes it liquid enough to spay) evaporate off, it's 'mostly' safe.
Not encouraging you to do it...but with a 15-30min warm-wait for the carrier agent to evaporate, it hasn't been a problem for my pump-filling (pump filling is pretty slow...less heat build up than tank filling).
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How does the transfer port remove? While I had mine disassembled to clean, I tried to remove the transfer port to check the barrel loading cone area and possibly smooth the edge of the transfer port hole but couldn't easily remove it so I left it in place. Seems it should come out away from the barrel if the loading port is out but mine wouldn't budge.
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Hi all, has anyone found a source for SPA M10 parts other than MrodAir? The valve on my M10 has leaked since coming out of the box and it is getting worse, will no longer hold air, leaks steadily. I looked for trash in the valve body but can't see anything and valve parts look fine, so I think the valve body has a defect and won't seal.
I have spoken to Mike twice but come up short so looking for another source for parts...
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How does the transfer port remove? While I had mine disassembled to clean, I tried to remove the transfer port to check the barrel loading cone area and possibly smooth the edge of the transfer port hole but couldn't easily remove it so I left it in place. Seems it should come out away from the barrel if the loading port is out but mine wouldn't budge.
I think the easiest way to get it out is to pull the bolt back, remove the barrel and single shot tray, then you can insert something like a wood dowel into the receiver where the barrel was and press out the transfer port/breech. It has an o-ring so it fits snugly. When I did it I had the gun degassed, so I did all of the above after I had removed the barrel/receiver assembly from the gun.
If you pull off the entire barrel/receiver assembly, put the barrel back into the receiver before you mount the receiver to the gun. If you try to mount the receiver first, getting the barrel aligned to insert is quite difficult.
Hi all, has anyone found a source for SPA M10 parts other than MrodAir? The valve on my M10 has leaked since coming out of the box and it is getting worse, will no longer hold air, leaks steadily. I looked for trash in the valve body but can't see anything and valve parts look fine, so I think the valve body has a defect and won't seal.
I suppose you could try to contact SPA directly. I haven't heard of any other source, especially here in US.
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Good to know, thanks. The barrel was in pretty tight to so I just cleaned through it and didn't remove it from the breech.
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How does the transfer port remove? While I had mine disassembled to clean, I tried to remove the transfer port to check the barrel loading cone area and possibly smooth the edge of the transfer port hole but couldn't easily remove it so I left it in place. Seems it should come out away from the barrel if the loading port is out but mine wouldn't budge.
There might be a little Loctite holding it in place. As for the barrel being tight, look at the indentations for the set screws. There usually is a burr that needs to be removed.
Glen
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Thanks for all the good info. I had all three breech top screws out and tugged on the barrel pretty hard but I'll use the vise next time. I'm going to order a Huma regulator for it to try to flatten the shot string a bit. I'll install it in a couple of weeks once the air compressor comes in. Overall, I'm more than happy with the power, accuracy, and now the trigger with some work. We'll see how they last.
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I finally had enough free time to disassemble and clean my M10 yesterday, while it was apart I changed the trigger sear and tested the trigger for function before reassembly. Today I put a baby bottle brush inside and changed the o-ring on the threaded end of the tube. The original swelled too much from grease/ oil from the factory.
So the ping is gone, I'm very impressed by the bottle brush mod.
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Mine has a pretty harsh ping as well. I'll put one of those brushes in when the Huma regulator arrives and can be installed or does the regulator quiet the ping enough by itself? Anyone have any idea?
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I read somewhere that just installing a reg kills ping, but I have no personal experience with this.
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I read somewhere that just installing a reg kills ping, but I have no personal experience with this.
I have been following this since the day Dairyboy started it. I think it would be a neat project gun with a lot of potential. I don't have one YET but for what its worth, I have recently installed a Huma in another rifle. I never noticed how much ping it had until it wasn't there. The ping still comes through once the gun falls off the reg. I kinda thought I was going crazy!
It appears that mobilemail is right; the reg definitely made a difference.
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I purchased a M10 from the classifieds ads today.
It should be here in a few days.
I have just read this entire thread and want to thank those who have been contributing to it.
I have 2 buddies who had purchased these guns in the past couple of weeks, and we have been shooting them at our weekly shoot. We have been pretty impressed with the power so far, and will undoubtedly be doing some tinkering.
I would also like to hear more from anyone who has any good results with a .30 cal re-barrel
Thanks,
Subscribed.
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Mine has a pretty harsh ping as well. I'll put one of those brushes in when the Huma regulator arrives and can be installed or does the regulator quiet the ping enough by itself? Anyone have any idea?
I can only speak from my experience, or two experiences. I was greedy and purchased two. I put a bottle brush in both and I believe they are quiet enough for me. I read about someone who extended the ldc and made his even more quiet, that's my hearsay.
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I couldn't stand back and take this anymore. Thanks to Dairyboy, I have been made a member of the M10 club...the Disco is sweet, too.
(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag124/josephb1969/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20170415_220835750_zpspzgu4l68.jpg)
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Soooo, you took the plunge! Welcome to "The M10 Club" 8) (that's funny)
How did you get yours, I thought Mrodair was sold out!
There's a real good mix of experience in this thread. Many have years of PCP mod.s under their belt, others like myself are just getting started. Makes for great reading as I stumble upon the same problems others are having, and then find answers I can apply.
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Hey Andrew,
I got both rifles from Dairyboy. Glad I did take the plunge.
Joe
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Welcome to the club Joe, if I ever get the replacement valve parts for mine, I look forward to sharing some shooting experiences. I know Andrew has been in touch with SPA and I am heading down that path next.
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Thanks Steve. Wish I had another.
Joe
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Thanks Steve. Wish I had another.
Joe
I could help with that... PM me
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Thanks Steve. Wish I had another.
Joe
I could help with that... PM me
Curses Mark, a blight upon your name... PM sent.
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Thanks Steve. Wish I had another.
Joe
I could help with that... PM me
Curses Mark, a blight upon your name... PM sent.
Blight me 8) :o
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Blight me 8) :o
OK, That's some FUNNY STUFF right there !
So tell me again Joe,...
... you are NOT "addicted", right ?
... You can stop ANYTIME you like,... right ?
HAHAhahahaha !
:o :P 8)
and your wife is FULLY Supportive of your addiction,... err,... I mean,... Hobby,... Right ? and your "involvement", (cough, cough, cough), ... right ?
Yeah RIGHT !
Dude,... there IS a 12 step program.
We ARE here to help you.
I'll be GLAD to walk you through it if you need a Sponsor, I'm here to "Help".
(Get your wallet ready)
Love ya Bro...
DOH !
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;D You guys are crazy!
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I'm a bad excuse for an M10 owner. Haven't played with it in quite awhile.
After due consideration of how the rilfe wiull get used, removed the 3-12X and put on a simple 3-9X scope. Just not going to be used any farther than a 3-9X can provide.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/M10/46474280-1f7e-4dfc-a05b-dfec45671791.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/M10/46474280-1f7e-4dfc-a05b-dfec45671791.jpg.html)
Guess I'm either complacent or the rifle fills a "slot" in the line up that's not better filled by some other PCP. Don't really "know" yet if it is a "must-have-keeper" or just one I play with now and again....time, use will decide that over time.
Cured the trigger. Then cured making the (stupidly placed) safety work with the trigger adjusted. Ordered really heavy weight pellets to better deal with the power output. Tried various transfer ports to decrease power and extend shot count
Results were great, but I just don't have anything that needs shooting at that power level or all that far away until huntring season rolls around again.
Disgtracting me: I got into the really quiet rifles, and put the M-10 to the side for a time (it's still holding a steady pressure, so it's likely "healthy"). More need right now, with only pest birds on the "legal" shooting menue, and shrouded/LDC's low power is better suited for the season here (warm...neighbors out more...no game animals to shoot).
Had a couple of tests at various speed with my nephew...he's happier with the Discovery, as that cost about as much as this did on sale, figured "what the hay" and let the Disco. go and kept thr M10.
Settled on a 3/4 throttle setting of a bit less than 42 foot pounds. It has 53-51 foot pounds with no sweat, but 40-42 seemed to be "enough"...fast enough that real heavy weight pellets aren't really trajectory challenged (still in the 800's) but still able to toss 18.1's at a reasonably slow/accurate speed (more like 980fps).
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/M10/be13c676-4d6e-4aa7-8685-7ee5e33565ea.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/M10/be13c676-4d6e-4aa7-8685-7ee5e33565ea.jpg.html)
Reasonably efficient. Not 100% sure what the real air volume of that air tube really is. Have seen 255 cc mentioned, and if it really is that size, then the efficiency is about 1.3. I'm thinking it may be closer to 270cc's, which would make the efficiency more like 1.24.
Neither of those is earthshattering....but I'd not take it apart and rework the system for the difference.
Did extend the LDC rather than make a new one. Just a suspistion, but SUPECT the isse one has so many close-set baffles that the air speed (and sound) reduction is hampered by lack of volume when cranked up to full power. The extention makes it at least "usefully" quiet when tuned down to the 38-42 foot pound level.
Soooo...I'd kind of inactive and silent about the M10 for now.
I really do NOT want to transform it into something that isn't in it's basic nature (that being a really fast/high powered unregulated PCP) as that exact nature would be a very good thing come next hunting season. Found over the years, that pcp's forced/tuned into power leverl they aren't natural to tend to find ways of letting you know they aren't happy (blowing seals, needing readjustment, not keeping thier zero, etc.).
Let 'em live in the "zone" they seem to find to naturally wanting to shoot...fast or slow....if you really need a faster/more powerful one, buy a new one (and if you need a quieter/lower powered one, buy one of those as well).
Tell ya'll what...let me "whack" a couple of bothersome garbage can raiding racoons, and I'll re-evaluate the rifle's uses for me at this power level. It kind of likes the odd-ball 19gr. H&N "X" shaped head hollow point, the speed would be enough to get it to expand on racoon sized critters, and I'll report on the results.
As for too much more drastic experimention...why?
As for the new repeater version...I'd have to see three things:
1. Is here a really decent single shot tray that with it?
2.Price...there seems to be more compition at the lower end of the PCP scale than there is anywhere else right now.
3. Is the new version more in tune with "moderate" power, or is it more like the original M-10's "male-round accessory package-to the-wall" type of tuning?
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I'm curious if the LDC extension is something that can be done without machery.
I ordered two M10's, so far I have only replaced the trigger sears and put bottle brushes in to calm down the ping, I have noticed that one is quite a bit more powerful out of the box than the other.
Anyway both are great rifles, but those safeties aren't my favorite.
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older thread, but ringing it back to ask some of the more experienced M10 owners some questions.
Has anyone here converted your .22 cal M10's to repeaters ?
If so,...how did you do it ?
Was it with parts ordered from Spa ? or did Mrodair ever sell a repeater breech ?
What type/brand magazine was used ?
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Here is a 5 shot group that was shot last Saturday with the
M-10 using a 33 gr at 950 fps , 4 shots under one inch and
Craig stated that he pulled the shot out to the right .
(http://i.imgur.com/nK8qgEF.jpg?1)
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older thread, but ringing it back to ask some of the more experienced M10 owners some questions.
Has anyone here converted your .22 cal M10's to repeaters ?
If so,...how did you do it ?
Was it with parts ordered from Spa ? or did Mrodair ever sell a repeater breech ?
What type/brand magazine was used ?
Ron,
I did do the repeater conversion...all parts MRODAIR sourced.
Its a pretty simple conversion breech, regulator, and done...
I will warn though..as with ALL regulators in my experience, they are power robbing villains! That MASSIVE power that you can experience with the single shot version, is diminished ....severely or not severely is a matter of perspective. I left the conversion in place however, and moved on to other rifles.
DJ
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Almost forgot...I did purchase an additional magazine from a website abroad (the name escapes me at the moment)
DJ
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Here is a 5 shot group that was shot last Saturday with the
M-10 using a 33 gr at 950 fps , 4 shots under one inch and
Craig stated that he pulled the shot out to the right .
(http://i.imgur.com/nK8qgEF.jpg?1)
Dale forgot to mention this was at 100 yds. That's not too bad if you ask me !
older thread, but ringing it back to ask some of the more experienced M10 owners some questions.
Has anyone here converted your .22 cal M10's to repeaters ?
If so,...how did you do it ?
Was it with parts ordered from Spa ? or did Mrodair ever sell a repeater breech ?
What type/brand magazine was used ?
Ron,
I did do the repeater conversion...all parts MRODAIR sourced.
Its a pretty simple conversion breech, regulator, and done...
I will warn though..as with ALL regulators in my experience, they are power robbing villains! That MASSIVE power that you can experience with the single shot version, is diminished ....severely or not severely is a matter of perspective. I left the conversion in place however, and moved on to other rifles.
DJ
Thanks DJ,
We have done the repeater conversion on 2 of the M10's were currently have, using parts from SPA.
Craig also tried the Lane regulator in his, with the same results as you described. The regulator was then removed and the above group was done with an impressive 66 FPE !
( Don't think I'll be putting the reg in mine ;) ;D )
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Love it!......Now I might have to re-visit mine....and remove that darn regulator....YES...I am a card carrying member of the "I hate regulators" club! :-)
DJ
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The regulators rob a gun of it's true potential if it's power you're going for. That's why I didn't put one in my Marauder.
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Think "we" (meaning airgunners in gneneral) lost site of what regulation was designed to do: whole lot more uniform shots at less than max speeds.
NO way a PCP running on less pressure and with less volume to tap from can make the same power as a full pressure and the full volume to tap from.
Regulated rifles get that long shot count from the ability to run well over a long pressure range. Generally, they aren't all that efficient at air use.
Have mentioned it before, but have a 13ci bottle gun (converted QB79) that will get 205 nicely uniform 12.5 foot pound shots per fill. YOu'd think that would have to be really efficient.... it isn't. Why? Becasue it runs over a 2200psi range to do it (from 3000psi to 800psi).
Yes...you can make a tuned up regulated rifle shoot as fast or faster than an untuned non-regulated rifle....but if 1/2 the effort of making it regulated was spent on tuning it up at full power?...nope.
Logically, some of that is becasue regulators have parts that cycle and move...so they perform "work"...and the air is the only sourse for power for that work...so at least a little bit of the compressed air uses goes into cycling the regulator. Given 205 shots, that little bit evidently adds up.
Wanna try? Pick the output pressure you'd want in a regulator (lets say 1700psi)
Fill your PCP to 100PSi over that pressure. (lets say 1800psi)
Tune/test/tune test, only taking shots from 100psi above to 100psi below reg pressure (1600-1800 psi).
Now...likely that would still be HIGH for regulation, as regulated guns don't tap off the full air tube for a shot...they only tap off the air between the rgulator and the valve stem.
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66fpe, at a 2500psi fill, shooting Dale's swege hp, 33gr slugs he made. Average fps is 950. Anybody want to buy my new Lane Regulator, LOL!! The M10's are amazing! Now converted to a repeater, so it's an M-11. We slightly enlarged the new breach that comes for the M-11 conversion to match the transfer port. We actually probably also slightly increased the ID of the transfer port in the process because we drilled both together. Added a second smaller spring inside the hammer spring, just long enough to allow the gun to cock. (a little trial and error is needed to get the correct length) A little trigger work, and the gun shoots as well if not better than some of the guns I paid several thousand dollars for. Crank up the power and tame it with heavier slugs and you will have a tremendous $250 powerhouse of a gun. I had to buy a couple more, couldn't help myself...
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Up to this point I was feeling left out by not having any of my PCP on a regulator. Now I'm thinking I haven't missed anything.
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66fpe, at a 2500psi fill, shooting Dale's swege hp, 33gr slugs he made. Average fps is 950. Anybody want to buy my new Lane Regulator, LOL!! The M10's are amazing! Now converted to a repeater, so it's an M-11. We slightly enlarged the new breach that comes for the M-11 conversion to match the transfer port. We actually probably also slightly increased the ID of the transfer port in the process because we drilled both together. Added a second smaller spring inside the hammer spring, just long enough to allow the gun to cock. (a little trial and error is needed to get the correct length) A little trigger work, and the gun shoots as well if not better than some of the guns I paid several thousand dollars for. Crank up the power and tame it with heavier slugs and you will have a tremendous $250 powerhouse of a gun. I had to buy a couple more, couldn't help myself...
Want to sell me one ? ;D
Wishful thinking on my part because I just bought a Varmint.
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Ribbonstone don't get me wrong I do like that little regulated pistol I bought from Mrodair, it surprisingly does a great job adjusted so it's putting out 16fpe for a good 20 shots but I do recall early on in one of the threads about it that someone was thinking of bypassing the regulator and just using full power from the get go, it does sound like it could really put out some excellent power but for now I'm happy with the way it is.
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Ribbonstone don't get me wrong I do like that little regulated pistol I bought from Mrodair, it surprisingly does a great job adjusted so it's putting out 16fpe for a good 20 shots but I do recall early on in one of the threads about it that someone was thinking of bypassing the regulator and just using full power from the get go, it does sound like it could really put out some excellent power but for now I'm happy with the way it is.
Darn Wayne, as I was reading your message I was thinking maybe he'll sell it. Then when I read "excellent power but for now I'm happy with the way it is" my spirts hit an all time low....lol.
Maybe one day I'll seriously think about one of those but for now I'm busy enjoying my Varmint.
But I sure missed one heck of a deal with not getting a M10.
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Closest examples I have are pretty close.
Yeah...they certainly don't look the same...but it terms of shot count, that doesn't matter a bit. Rest assured, I've used them both as pistols...used them both as carbines....but that doesn't matter to the shot count/air use.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/db31f800-7d0f-4987-bf6a-46ebee0a3f0d.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/db31f800-7d0f-4987-bf6a-46ebee0a3f0d.jpg.html)
Same caliber.
Same pellets.
Same max fill.
About the same air volume.
Set to about the same energy (both are modest energy tuned).
One regulated...one not.
So with one (P-Rod) can get 25 shots under 4% @ 15 foot pounds for 1000psi of air use. (2900-1900).
For the other (MkI) can get 40 shots under 3% @ 15 foot pounds for 1600psi of air use (3100-1500psi).
So looking at it in air use, the non-regulated P-Rod and the regulated MkI use just about the same amount of air (about 40psi) per shot from just about the same air volume.
So they are equally efficient....60% more shots for 60% more air use (and considering the "work" the regulator does, think that's actualy better than "even"). YES...can do better with either of them (and currently the MkI is doing duty at 50 shots at about 10.2 foot pounds).
Will give you that 3% is better than 4%...but I've not been able to SEE a difference at any range where I'd logically use a 15 foot pound .22.
As for the M10...it just runs so effortless as a hot-rod .22, good for +50 foot pounds out the box...why would I want/need to castrate it when so many other .22 PCP's would sever in the lower power category?
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66fpe, at a 2500psi fill, shooting Dale's swege hp, 33gr slugs he made. Average fps is 950. Anybody want to buy my new Lane Regulator, LOL!! The M10's are amazing! Now converted to a repeater, so it's an M-11. We slightly enlarged the new breach that comes for the M-11 conversion to match the transfer port. We actually probably also slightly increased the ID of the transfer port in the process because we drilled both together. Added a second smaller spring inside the hammer spring, just long enough to allow the gun to cock. (a little trial and error is needed to get the correct length) A little trigger work, and the gun shoots as well if not better than some of the guns I paid several thousand dollars for. Crank up the power and tame it with heavier slugs and you will have a tremendous $250 powerhouse of a gun. I had to buy a couple more, couldn't help myself...
Want to sell me one ? ;D
Wishful thinking on my part because I just bought a Varmint.
No, but run a wanted ad before more people figure out the potential of the M-10 and you should be able to find one. We just picked up 3 doing that. Good luck!
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can anyone here please post up some good quality pics of the Mrodair repeater breech ?
I would like to see the specific parts of the breech without the magazine installed.
oddly, I called Mrodair the other day to inquire about these parts, and the reply I got was that there were not any parts ever available to make the M10 into a repeater.. . Yet it appears that several people here Did get parts from Mrodair to accomplish this conversion.
I don't know why Mrodair would have told me there was never anything like this available. seems strange to me.
Anyway, I'd love to see the "kit" or conversion parts, installed (or uninstalled) if you guys would be so kind.
Thanks
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I remember something mention on Mrodair about the conversion they were supposed to come up with back when he was running the $269 special on them but I never seen the kit up for sale. The M10 is a powerhouse no doubt and I thought it was really neat how they were sold with the stuff to detune them as well if you wanted. I'm going to have to research the M11 and see what they're getting for them, I'm sure its more than $269 though.
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Airguns as "hammers".
In my airgun uses, have a lot more call for a hammer for 2 penny nails than I do for rail road spikes....so most of my shooting is with less powerful .22 PCP.s
BUT...when I really need power, I do appreciate the M-10...just don't need it often enough to justify a repeater conversion.
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Airguns as "hammers".
In my airgun uses, have a lot more call for a hammer for 2 penny nails than I do for rail road spikes....so most of my shooting is with less powerful .22 PCP.s
BUT...when I really need power, I do appreciate the M-10...just don't need it often enough to justify a repeater conversion.
With good stealth a single shot will definitely get the job done in a hunting situation enabling a person to have time to reload however with my repeaters it really is nice to have the capability of just simply chambering another round. I never was a paper puncher except when in training in Ft Knox KY over 40 years ago ;)
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Guys and Gals, the M10 is still available from Aceros de Hispania in single-shot howitzer-mode: here (http://www.aceros-de-hispania.com/hunting-products.asp?product=caza-hunting-pcp010). Yes, under a different name, but it is the same gun.
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Good to know it's available....just like Hatsan still lists their single shot version, but none of the big name on-line stores carry it....in this case, am glad that the M-10 single shot can be had/
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I think the M22 is similar in the multishot version too, that's probably what I'd personally opt for if I got one, they're a powerhouse gun for sure, great for hunting.
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It is my go to for blasting groundhogs out of the pasture fence line. Those 32 gr. EunJin pellets make their heads all leaky.......
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Are these going to be sold stateside again? I would like to see the m20 sold here because it has a shroud but needs a mag.
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Are these going to be sold stateside again? I would like to see the m20 sold here because it has a shroud but needs a mag.
Guys and Gals, the M10 is still available from Aceros de Hispania in single-shot howitzer-mode: here. Yes, under a different name, but it is the same gun.
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That place is not stateside.
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I guess you could call me a SPAddict now, I keep checking out their guns thinking should I or shouldn't I. My latest one is the Varmint and I love that gun too.
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They make these in .177 and .25 at Aceros de Hispania? Dang if the .22s were 50+fpe... thinking a cheap .25 slug shooter
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Checking out the factory site, do find some .25's. HAs the usual problem with the English translation that many sites have (not the worst by any means...but it's obvious english wasn't their primary language).
http://www.china-airrifle.com/product/product.php?lang=en&class2=56 (http://www.china-airrifle.com/product/product.php?lang=en&class2=56)
Haven't a clue who might have them for US sales, but evidently .25's are/were made...and perhaps those factory parts (bolt/transfer port bushing/barrel) could be sourced?
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hi guys,
can somebody tell how to get lower muzzle noise out of my m10?
i installed a huma reg and set it to 50 bars - very low.
shoting now with 18 fpe - that was expected BUT its still so ()&(^)(&() loud. its impossible to shot in the backyard.
my springer weihrauch hw80 does 15 fpe and the muzzle noise (with weihrauch ldc) is much more silent. the spring mechanics are even louder!!
so whats wrong ? maybe the stock LDC is &^^&? and i think my m10 is waisting a lot of air.
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hi guys,
can somebody tell how to get lower muzzle noise out of my m10?
i installed a huma reg and set it to 50 bars - very low.
shoting now with 18 fpe - that was expected BUT its still so ()&(^)(&() loud. its impossible to shot in the backyard.
my springer weihrauch hw80 does 15 fpe and the muzzle noise (with weihrauch ldc) is much more silent. the spring mechanics are even louder!!
so whats wrong ? maybe the stock LDC is &^^&? and i think my m10 is waisting a lot of air.
50 bars is incredibly low and will be super prone to hammer bounce and wasted air. I would personally keep my reg (even for 12-18 fpe) at no less than 85-95 bar...
With the stock spring/hammer weight, there probably is no way to balance the valve + hammer at 50 bars reg pressure. Either greatly reduce hammer weight + spring until speed starts to decline or as I suggested raise your reg pressure up significantly.
-Matt
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Some guys have also turned the transfer port and drilled a different sized aperture in it, that might help to tone down the air per shot.
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Was looking at the M10 notes just this morning.
It's a big, heavy, simple, beast of an airgun.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/M10/7e8ed384-0f35-4620-8883-cf3aebd8fd07.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/M10/7e8ed384-0f35-4620-8883-cf3aebd8fd07.jpg.html)
Rifle was simple-tuned (basically the striker spring tension set to run close to the start of a 4% bell curve with a full fill....and if you think that's really is all that easy, I din't mean "simple" in those terms...more like "univariable").
Came with a 5mm and a 4mm port.
Yep..can take out, rotate 90 degrees, drill a new port, plug the old one, and make a new set screw "dimple".
With two heavy weights: 25.4 JSB and a 35.4gr. cast slug. There was a sample of 30.? swaged pellets as well, but not enough for all the tests, so I lieft the results out of this chart:
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/M10/32c6b88b-c331-4e55-9480-83e6c6d8af75.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/M10/32c6b88b-c331-4e55-9480-83e6c6d8af75.jpg.html)
Port size: Pellet/4% shots/energy total 4% energy in a fill:
5mm 25.4gr / 19 / 50.8fpe 965fpe per fill
35.4 / 18 / 55.8fpe 1005fpe per fill
4mm 25.4 / 20 / 50.1fpe 1002fpe per fill
35.4 / 20/ 53.2fps 1011fpe per fill
3mm 25.4 / 25 / 44fpe 1056fpe per fill
35.4 / 23 / 48.1fpe 1106fpe per fill
2.5mm 25.4 / 35 / 30.3fpe 1060fpe per fill
35.4 / 35 / 30.5 fpe 1067fpe per fill
Pretty much settled on the 25.4gr. JSB's. The energy penalty isn't great enough to overcome the accuracy advanatage.
(In case you are wondering....had two targets set up. Pharted around adjusting the scope between each group on the below tarrget. TRUST ME...they do NOT shoot to neary the same POI.)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/M10/cc0eea14-9eda-4b48-a6d3-e193e8f5d574.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/M10/cc0eea14-9eda-4b48-a6d3-e193e8f5d574.jpg.html)
Now a lot of things might strike you about the above....which may not be the things I took away from the results.
My take(s):
1. Pellet weight does seem to favore energy in this one (which is a bit of a "hot rod").
2. By the time the transfer port was strangled off to 2.5mm, there wasn't much difference in energy or shot count from the two test heavy weights. Might have seen more of a difference with lighter weight pellets/slugs.
3. Reducing the transwfer port from 5mm to 4mm (which is a boat load in terms of area) didn't do "jack" for the 25.4gr. pellet. Did have a bit of an effect on the heavy weight slug, but not a whole lot (5-6% energy rerduction is enough to mention).
4. Of the choices, decided I kind of liked THIS airgun to run fast/powerful. Have other airguns that get long shot counts/lower energy; this one is reserved as a .22 "thunper"....so I kewpt the 4mm port.
If this was my only PCP, I'd likely have gone with the 3mm port....but something about a simple .22 with 20 shots/ 50 foot pounds kind of makes me pleased, so I kept it at 4mm even though that's not really the most efficient.
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Not bad Ribbonstone. I do have to say that I really like my M10. With the M10, my Sumatra carbine and my Disco with the DPV (Disco Power Valve) I have 3 heavy .22 hitters. I'm good to go.
Joe
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Was looking at the M10 notes just this morning.
It's a big, heavy, simple, beast of an airgun.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/M10/7e8ed384-0f35-4620-8883-cf3aebd8fd07.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/M10/7e8ed384-0f35-4620-8883-cf3aebd8fd07.jpg.html)
Rifle was simple-tuned (basically the striker spring tension set to run close to the start of a 4% bell curve with a full fill....and if you think that's really is all that easy, I din't mean "simple" in those terms...more like "univariable").
Came with a 5mm and a 4mm port.
Yep..can take out, rotate 90 degrees, drill a new port, plug the old one, and make a new set screw "dimple".
With two heavy weights: 25.4 JSB and a 35.4gr. cast slug. There was a sample of 30.? swaged pellets as well, but not enough for all the tests, so I lieft the results out of this chart:
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/M10/32c6b88b-c331-4e55-9480-83e6c6d8af75.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/M10/32c6b88b-c331-4e55-9480-83e6c6d8af75.jpg.html)
Port size: Pellet/4% shots/energy total 4% energy in a fill:
5mm 25.4gr / 19 / 50.8fpe 965fpe per fill
35.4 / 18 / 55.8fpe 1005fpe per fill
4mm 25.4 / 20 / 50.1fpe 1002fpe per fill
35.4 / 20/ 53.2fps 1011fpe per fill
3mm 25.4 / 25 / 44fpe 1056fpe per fill
35.4 / 23 / 48.1fpe 1106fpe per fill
2.5mm 25.4 / 35 / 30.3fpe 1060fpe per fill
35.4 / 35 / 30.5 fpe 1067fpe per fill
Pretty much settled on the 25.4gr. JSB's. The energy penalty isn't great enough to overcome the accuracy advanatage.
(In case you are wondering....had two targets set up. Pharted around adjusting the scope between each group on the below tarrget. TRUST ME...they do NOT shoot to neary the same POI.)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/M10/cc0eea14-9eda-4b48-a6d3-e193e8f5d574.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/M10/cc0eea14-9eda-4b48-a6d3-e193e8f5d574.jpg.html)
Now a lot of things might strike you about the above....which may not be the things I took away from the results.
My take(s):
1. Pellet weight does seem to favore energy in this one (which is a bit of a "hot rod").
2. By the time the transfer port was strangled off to 2.5mm, there wasn't much difference in energy or shot count from the two test heavy weights. Might have seen more of a difference with lighter weight pellets/slugs.
3. Reducing the transwfer port from 5mm to 4mm (which is a boat load in terms of area) didn't do "jack" for the 25.4gr. pellet. Did have a bit of an effect on the heavy weight slug, but not a whole lot (5-6% energy rerduction is enough to mention).
4. Of the choices, decided I kind of liked THIS airgun to run fast/powerful. Have other airguns that get long shot counts/lower energy; this one is reserved as a .22 "thunper"....so I kewpt the 4mm port.
If this was my only PCP, I'd likely have gone with the 3mm port....but something about a simple .22 with 20 shots/ 50 foot pounds kind of makes me pleased, so I kept it at 4mm even though that's not really the most efficient.
Have you shot those 25 grain JSBs at longer range...say 50 yards?
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HAve only had a few chances to put the rifle to paper at 50 yards or more....I do not tend to bring airguns out to official rifle ranges.
Have shot it that far and farther away from the bench.
Still seems that the 25.4's are the pellet to beat for accuracy. Can certainly get more power from a heavier pellet, but so far not more accuracy. I'ts not a great big hairy difference.....just that it "tips a line". At 50yards, the 25.4 managers something very close to .95MOA (like .47")...the 34gr. manages something like 1.1MOA (.55")...which really ain't "ship", but it happens to cross a mental line (one is MOA...one isn't).
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Was shooting my M10 with the 25.4 JSB pellets at 100 yards today. Shooting off my arm leaning against a tree, a two inch target was a hit every time. I am sure from a bench the M10 can print some nice groups with these pellets at 100, but for me, it is easily minute of squirrel capable at that range in the field. ;D