Quote from: stonykill on March 20, 2014, 11:22:58 PMQuote from: Nomadic Pirate on March 20, 2014, 08:01:56 PMCan't stand Charts !There's so many variables in hunting you can't just put down a number what Manny said! Hunting isn't math or science.Something tells me ballistic coefficient, bullet drop calculations, cant, etc. are useless to some people.
Quote from: Nomadic Pirate on March 20, 2014, 08:01:56 PMCan't stand Charts !There's so many variables in hunting you can't just put down a number what Manny said! Hunting isn't math or science.
Can't stand Charts !There's so many variables in hunting you can't just put down a number
I shot a squirrel once with about 5 fpe and will not do it again. I was using a peep sighted 1377 and I hit about where I was aiming but all it did is break the near shoulder badly. It did not make it to vitals (gamo redfire). If it has gone a quarter inch further back or half an inch forward it might have done the job. Might.I have shot several with my Prod tuned to 13-17 fpe. I tried shooting through a dead one at 20 yards with a H&N FTT and a H&N Baracuda - 22 caliber so 14.66 and 18 grains. Neither made it through. The tune at that point was about 14fpe on the FTT and a little more on the Baracuda. Sample of one but I think it takes more than 14 fpe to make it through a squirrel. Both stopped with the head out and the skirt in the skin on the far side. Both did significant damage, I'm sure but if you want two holes (which I do) neither did it.I've hit two with my current tune using the FTT. It is about 17 fpe. Both reacted differently than the 4 I shot with lower power tunes on this gun. Neither was initially hit in the head but neither tried to run off. Might have just been luck but I think hitting them harder reduced their ability or desire to try and run off. I hit one of them in the head on a second shot anchoring it even though I hit below the eye and it came out the chin. The second one rolled around on the ground - but not like a solid head shot - and went into a rotted area of the tree it was shot off of. There is an interesting discussion in a youtube by "the squirrel hunter" on how fast squirrels move. They can move about ten times as fast as we can get a pellet to them. We try to wait until they are still. But if we guess wrong they can easily move enough to affect our intended perfect shot placement. Other times we don't do well as we want with placement. I aim for the head but I do not always hit it. Even though both I and my gun shoot well enough to do so consistently. I think in several cases the squirrel moved a little.So I don't care if 5 fpe will kill a squirrel with perfect shot placement. I want my gun to kill the squirrel without it running off even if the shot doesn't go exactly where I want it to. For squirrels I think that is somewhere in the 15-20 fpe range. If I only has a 12 fpe gun I guess I would still use it but I would try to be extra careful with range and shot placement. I am talking about muzzle fpe. I agree that fpe at the target is the real variable but I haven't done the math to know that for my experiences. I haven't shot or shot at a squirrel with a air rifle beyond about 25 yards. Most were at 20 yards. The 5fpe case was 10 yards or less.I agree cottontails are easier to kill than squirrels although I haven not shot them with an air rifle yet. I've seen them killed by a dirt clod. I do not agree an expanding pellet needs less energy to kill. Most do not expand at all at the velocity achieved by lower power rifles. If they do not expand how can their design make any useful difference?
OK, I got curious and I also decided it might sound arrogant for me to just say "I didn't do the math". So I did it. My original shots on squirrels with the tune my Prod came with put about 10fpe on the squirrel. I hit one nicely in the head and he was drt. But I had at least one get up and run into the neighbors yard. My next tune was only slightly higher, about 11.6 fpe on the squirrel but I did not have any go scampering off like that (I think I probably was more careful to get a good shot). My current tune puts about 14 fpe on the squirrel at impact. The 11.6 fpe did not result in pass through with H&N FTT or Barracuda pellets on a dead squirrel (the head of the pellet was out but the skirt was still stuck in the skin). I am looking for a chance to try the 14 fpe tune but I suspect it will go through.So I am arguing you need 12-14 fpe at the point of impact to reliably keep a squirrel from running off if you do not hit it in the brain. If you hit the vitals with this level of energy, my experience indicates it won't be drt but you will get a chance to finish it off, it will not run far. That is not guaranteed in my judgement but your odds are a lot better than if you hit it with 10 fpe or less.I am not a fan of a chart that depends on perfect shot placement. It may be accurate for that purpose but it may also mislead some to think that sort of energy will work well even when the placement is not into the brain and I don't think it will. My admittedly somewhat limited experience says it will not.
Yea right in an ideal world with a PERFECT fuse box shot !!More unfortunate critters get maimed to crawl elsewhere and suffer or die from such low power shots from dime store power bb guns / air rifles that fall under or at those power levels.Just my opinion, only critters to fall reliably under those power levels are small to med size birds, chipmunks & rats.But then again a lucky or correctly placed shot is like a LIGHTNING bolt even from a bb gun ... go figure.JMO ... nuttin more