GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Support Equipment For PCP/HPA/CO2 => Topic started by: bnowlin on February 17, 2017, 11:28:40 PM
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Well I got my Air Venturi compressor today so far great. Came in less than 24 hours from PA and looks great well built. Works great so far will follow up with review very soon.
Bob
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Right on Bob!!! I'm glad someone I trusts opinion has one. Please let us know.
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Great that someone is going to have an actual unit. Once you have your compressor, it would be great if you could post some pictures of it without the cover panels and a closeup of the filter cartridge material. Most pictures thus far have hidden the actual build. Also, it would be nice to have some idea of the filter material composition. It does not look like a drying element, but rather a physical filter. Is it something that will be oil absorbent when damp? Is the filter chamber directly open between the filter and inlet? How much space is there below the filter and the base of the filter chamber?
If you have a digital thermocouple, temperature of the high pressure cylinder's air outlet tube right at it connection would also help us understand what the high side is actually seeing. The built-in temp probe is some thermal distance away and will read lower than what the air is doing inside the high side. A thermal probe right at the high side air outlet would get us the closest temperature sampling.
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I finally got to test the Air Venturi Compressor. My first impression was hey this is not China material. It was well packed in a very strong box. Double sided honeycombed box with nice foam rubber foam around the machine. When I got it out of the box I was totally shocked by the way it was built and put together. Very professional and well built. Get this, it even has a radiator and large fan to help cool the water it comes with the accessories mentioned in the PA ad. the control panel is really nice and easy to use. The only thing about that is no hour meter and the glycerin pressure was over filled and when you push down to adjust it some comes out of the gauge stem (easy fix). With all the sides off you can see a great piece of build and engineering. Not junky like some other overseas product. Oil and water was easy to add. I used a 50-50- mix of anti-freeze and 10 ounces of Purple Ice in the water. The water tank has a submersible pump and the temp gauge is attached to the high side cylinder out put after the cooling. I need to test that more. It comes with a pretty good book for installing but no schematic for rebuild. OK my first tank was a 30 minute 45 cu. ft. empty and took 31 minutes to fill. 5 min. for the first 1000,8 min to 1500, 12 to 2000, 15 to 2500, 20 to 3000, 23 to 3500, 27 to 4000, and 31 or a little less for 4500. That's 11 minutes from 3000 to 4500. as soon as I get a chance I will go to the next size. gonna storm here today. At 65 deg ambient the pump went from 32 Celsius to 80 book say should only go to 77 C.. Got to check into that. I used purple compressor oil and may actually have to use the 5w40 oil. A little thicker. The machine took 7 minutes to cool to 37 C after I shut it off. Might be a little early to say we might have a winner. But I think we do. Now let me figure out how to load pictures. Somebody help me here and I will send pictures
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pictures of compressor I hope
http://s1336.photobucket.com/user/bcnowlin/library/Air%20Venturi?sort=2&page=1 (http://s1336.photobucket.com/user/bcnowlin/library/Air%20Venturi?sort=2&page=1)
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Bob
80* C should not be an issue. The compressors are set up to shut off automatically if you were to get to 95*C+. The 75* C mark is what we have seen as the standard operating temp for the vast majority of units. We've seen a few go above, but not by more than 5-7*C.
I am going to see about getting manual amended now.
Thx and keep us updated on your progress with it.
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Thanks Tyler for jumping in. See if you can get a schematic on the rebuild and also I don't think the purple synthetic compressor oil is thick enough. Should I try the Castrol synthetic 5w40 that I have. I will pm you about it in a minute. Hope I don't lose my Satellite connection.
Bob
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Bob
Can't hurt to try, but we have used both compressor oil and 5w40 (non-synthetic, but no reason synthetic wouldn't be ok as far as we know) and seen similar results. Yours may just run a few degrees hotter than most.
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Bob that is a nice looking set up if it is a durable as it is pretty you may just have found my next HPA compressor for me
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Thanks for posting the picts!
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Looks nice. By the time I have the money saved to buy a compressor these should be fully stress tested lol.
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Saving up for this as well....will keep an eye on this thread, thanks for the link to the pics.
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Saving up for this as well....will keep an eye on this thread, thanks for the link to the pics.
They will probably go up but with my luck they will go down in price. LOL
Bob
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Tyler has amended page 7 of the manual to read 95*C maximum as the machine is designed to shut down at 95*C. I was a little worried about that. I hope to test a 60 min tank tomorrow if the rain stops. So far the filter on the output does a great job. Also I noticed that the machine is fast enough to make the tank a little warm not hot. Which to me is a good sign. More coming.
Bob
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Thanks for posting this. Haven't been shooting my PCP's since Sports Chalet closed down a while back. This will probably be my next big purchase since my springers been having all the fun.
Eric
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So it's another shopcomp hpa retrofit model as suspected. I really hope the internals have been brought up to spec. The idea is good if done right, the forces acting on the crank and rods are similar than on shop comp use due to the smaller surface area.
I strongly recommend using ISO VG 195 synthetic hpa compressor oil on any hpa compressors. It's not much expensive and it's designed with a higher viscosity and flashpoint.
So as the vendor is reading these would be nice and probably profitable to torture test one unit and open it up for public view for everyone's piece of mind.
The competitors disaster unit is shadowing the similar appearance units no doubt.
Just my 2C
Marko
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Saving up for this, too. Pumping up my at-44 after 20 rounds is just a huge PITB
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I am happy with my Shoebox Max, but this may be the ticket! I might have to sell my Max. :) Only problem would be rebuilding this unit with my mechanical skills.
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Ok folks: Just tested a 45 minute tank which I think is 65 cf. I believe. The compressor ran pretty quiet, sounds like a regular small garage comp., with very little vibration and filled the tank at a very surprising 47 minutes and from 3000 to 4500 in 16 minutes. Ambient Temp was 68*F and the comp reached 82.2*C and that was near the end. First 1000 was 8 min, 2000 was 18 min, 3000 was 30min, 4000 was 41 min, and 4500 was 47 min. I have no idea why it took less time to fill this one and the 30 min tank last week. I guess breaking in has speeded it up. I will test a 60 min tank tomorrow I hope. So far I like it a lot and the Warden doesn't complain about noise. Had a little water as I bled it a couple of times but it was 60 + Humidity today. And the water was white I am assuming the white is part of the filer material, molecular sieve perhaps. So far I think we have a decent Compressor at a decent price. It's speed beats the Omega and Shoebox hand down. May Tyler will tell me why it faster today than the last time. Happy so far.
Bob
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While I have not had any issue from my Shoebox max in 2 1/2 years of use it is slow compared to this compressor so if the reviews pan out to be good results from the Air venturi compressor I may just have to sell the Shoebox to purchase the Air venturi .
Mike
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Anyone going from shoebox to this give me a shout. I need an air source! Driving 60miles to pay $20 for 4000 psi is rediculous! Or I'll just keep saving my pennies for one of these. Darn enablers!
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I'm very fortunate where I'm at, there's a spot to fill my tank that's only about 3 miles away. It's only $5 to fill a 1 hr. SCBA tank.
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I have no where to fill a tank within 30 miles and the one scuba shop will not fill a scuba tank or SCBA without a divers certificate even if you sign a affidavit that its only for air gun use not breathing. So the Shoebox was my only option besides pumping which for the amount of PCP guns I have was not a viable option. I have COPD and Emphysema so I get short winded very easy.
It will be a while before I have funds to buy the Air venturi compressor so that the Shoebox will be up for sale. plus I want to see if it holds up better than the other brands that are similar to it in design and construction.
I will post the Shoebox on the classifieds when it is for sale. It has never needed service and I only run it for 20 minutes on with 10 off to cool down in cycles as I am filling and clean and relube the shafts with Lithium grease every two hours of operation. Still fills at the same rate as it did when first bought.
Mike
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Is there a rated duty cycle for commercial use? There it literally no place in my area that will fill, and it's about 250k people.
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Is there a rated duty cycle for commercial use? There it literally no place in my area that will fill, and it's about 250k people.
Check with Air Venturi or IMO buy a Nardi or something like that PA also carries Nardi
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Is there a rated duty cycle for commercial use? There it literally no place in my area that will fill, and it's about 250k people.
Check with Air Venturi or IMO buy a Nardi or something like that PA also carries Nardi
Yeah, I even rtfm. What is the power consumption?
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Is there a rated duty cycle for commercial use? There it literally no place in my area that will fill, and it's about 250k people.
Check with Air Venturi or IMO buy a Nardi or something like that PA also carries Nardi
Yeah, I even rtfm. What is the power consumption?
Mine is hooked to 15 amp 110V Btw no rating for comm. came with it.
Bob
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I got $3000 in my PayPal account.
Trying to hold out for that Sun Optics Unit but your making that REALLY hard!
:o
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I got $3000 in my PayPal account.
Trying to hold out for that Sun Optics Unit but your making that REALLY hard!
:o
Jeff,
I gotta better idea, pay mine off and you got enough to get one. Problem solved ;D ;D
Bob
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Trying to hold out for that Sun Optics Unit but your making that REALLY hard!
If you mean that little red box that they showed at SHOT show, I am waiting on that, too. I don't have a tank so a slow (but cheaper) compressor to fill my rifle directly is even better.
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I liked the 12 Volt option it says it has!
If I drop over a grand for a compressor I'll need to buy over a grand for tanks just to make it worth it.
I simple one like the Sun Optics would be perfect for me!
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the perfect setup for me is actually a compressor and a small tank. But I am nowhere near affording that because I just dropped 300 bucks on a Sidewinder (Still a killer deal, right? ::))
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Once we get reports of a unit getting into the 15-24 hour run time level, we'll have a better idea of the machine's longer term endurance. Pretty easy to run fast, but tougher to make something that can run last and remain intact.
The milky appearance of the condensate is probably just some oil bypass. Some is normal for this type of compressor. That's why a molecular sieve drier followed by activated carbon is desirable. The molecular sieve gets the air dry enough for the activated carbon to do its job.
That filter pack really does NOT look like molecular sieve beads from the low res images we have seen. Also, molecular sieve material is so hydrophilic that it pretty much needs to be vacuum packed in a metallic foil vacuum pouch or can. Just a plain plastic wrapper would render it useless in before use.
Could you post a closeup of the filter cartridge material? That would help us figure out of what it is composed.
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Bob,
Are you using anything to dry the air from the output side of the compressor? Pyramyd air on their website said "it wasn't necessary but couldn't hurt". Just wondering if you think if their is enough moisture to warrant a high pressure air dryer like a Diablo or an Alpha.
Thanks,
Eric
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I expect to see more and more shoe box's show up in the members classified with the new more inexpensive compressors coming out. Who knows I might even acquire me another SCBA tank at a very reasonable price as well for that matter, then I could cascade them as well. Even the guy at the dive shop told me when I was getting my tank filled that after December 2019 he couldn't refill my tank anymore even though it would more than likely be fairly safe to fill for a long time after. The tank was made in 2004 so after 15 years they can't be hydrotested anymore.
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Bob,
Are you using anything to dry the air from the output side of the compressor? Pyramyd air on their website said "it wasn't necessary but couldn't hurt". Just wondering if you think if their is enough moisture to warrant a high pressure air dryer like a Diablo or an Alpha.
Thanks,
Eric
Not yet really hadn't seen the need to. The machine appears to have a pretty good one built in. I'll just have to wait and see. Supposed to be for 50 hours. Bob
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Once we get reports of a unit getting into the 15-24 hour run time level, we'll have a better idea of the machine's longer term endurance. Pretty easy to run fast, but tougher to make something that can run last and remain intact.
The milky appearance of the condensate is probably just some oil bypass. Some is normal for this type of compressor. That's why a molecular sieve drier followed by activated carbon is desirable. The molecular sieve gets the air dry enough for the activated carbon to do its job.
That filter pack really does NOT look like molecular sieve beads from the low res images we have seen. Also, molecular sieve material is so hydrophilic that it pretty much needs to be vacuum packed in a metallic foil vacuum pouch or can. Just a plain plastic wrapper would render it useless in before use.
Could you post a closeup of the filter cartridge material? That would help us figure out of what it is composed.
I will get a picture soon. The filter appears to be some kind of compressed white fiber and the water drops into the drain. I am not sure if there is any oil coming out yet. I am using Royal Purple compressor oil and supposed to separate from water rapidly so it seem like the white is coming from the filter material. Need a little more time. BTW the Diablo filter ha Molecular sieve in it, Looks like retained on a #4 or larger screen.
Bob
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Ah. Didn't notice you had a Diablo connected after the compressor. Good on you for doing that. Without a high pressure dryer, the BEST a compressor's water separator can achieve is 100% humidity at a temperature higher than what will be in the tank. If untreated with a drying filter, that becomes >100% in the tank after cooling.
Personally, I'd aim for 30% RH or lower at full pressure to avoid excess moisture getting into my equipment. Still working on getting the visual moisture indicator properly integrated into my Bauer compressor fill whip.
Gotta have some means of measuring the humidity level. Otherwise, it is just a wild guess as to whether the output is dry enough.
The fibrous description sounds like it is being used to enhance coalescence of water in the separator.
BTW: to be more specific when talking about high pressure compressors....
Separator - uses physico mechanical means to separate water and oil from the air. This is by condensation of the super saturated water and sometimes centrifugal action. Screens or meshes can also be used to help promote full condensation. However, the best a separator can achieve is 100% RH (unless the separator is refrigerated)
Dryer (drying filter) - uses a water absorbant media to scavenge water content down to very low levels. The absorbent, most often molecular sieve, has limited capacity. Hence, the dryer is used AFTER the air stream has been "de-bulked" by a separator. Molecular sieve has higher capacity than silica at the lower RH range and is able to continue working despite the presence of some hydrocarbons. Silica becomes saturated sooner and looses function if exposed to hydrocarbon.
[EDIT debunked to de-bulked. Stupid, auto spell correct does it again]
For hydrocarbon removal, the dried air is passed through activated carbon. Because activated carbon can do its job only when dry, it follows the molecular sieve dryer.
A diablo filter acts as the dryer in the case of the Air Venturi. The compressor doesn't seem to have an actual drying filter, but only a separator. We'll verify that pretty soon with your picts.
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Ah. Didn't notice you had a Diablo connected after the compressor. Good on you for doing that. Without a high pressure dryer, the BEST a compressor's water separator can achieve is 100% humidity at a temperature higher than what will be in the tank. If untreated with a drying filter, that becomes >100% in the tank after cooling.
Personally, I'd aim for 30% RH or lower at full pressure to avoid excess moisture getting into my equipment. Still working on getting the visual moisture indicator properly integrated into my Bauer compressor fill whip.
Gotta have some means of measuring the humidity level. Otherwise, it is just a wild guess as to whether the output is dry enough.
The fibrous description sounds like it is being used to enhance coalescence of water in the separator.
BTW: to be more specific when talking about high pressure compressors....
Separator - uses physico mechanical means to separate water and oil from the air. This is by condensation of the super saturated water and sometimes centrifugal action. Screens or meshes can also be used to help promote full condensation. However, the best a separator can achieve is 100% RH (unless the separator is refrigerated)
Dryer (drying filter) - uses a water absorbant media to scavenge water content down to very low levels. The absorbent, most often molecular sieve, has limited capacity. Hence, the dryer is used AFTER the air stream has been "debunked" by a separator. Molecular sieve has higher capacity than silica at the lower RH range and is able to continue working despite the presence of some hydrocarbons. Silica becomes saturated sooner and looses function if exposed to hydrocarbon.
For hydrocarbon removal, the dried air is passed through activated carbon. Because activated carbon can do its job only when dry, it follows the molecular sieve dryer.
A diablo filter acts as the dryer in the case of the Air Venturi. The compressor doesn't seem to have an actual drying filter, but only a separator. We'll verify that pretty soon with your picts.
No sir I don't have the Diablo on the Air Venturi it is on the Omega that I have. I am thinking I will try it in a day or two. And you are making my head hurt LOL. BB Pelletier Has had this machine for several month and has 2 reviews on the PA site. Also I trust PA and Tyler Patner not to pull my leg so to say.
Bob
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Review #3
Well guys I finally got a chance to fill a 60 minute 88 cuft tank after all the rain, sickness, School playoffs etc. I am pretty sure now that I have a winner. I only makes a little more noise than the omega and much faster. Ambient temp was 64*F when I started and really went nice very little water was purged about ever 15 minutes and a little at the end. I timed it in 500 psi increments. The following is:
Temp in C*
500psi 3mins 27.2
1000 11mins 51.1
1500 18mins 68.4
2000 25mins 74.5
2500 32mins 77.5
3000 40mins 81.3
3500 47mins 82.4
4000 54mins 84.5
4500 62mins 84.9
And 22 minutes from 3000 to 450.
I don't know much about sizes and all but I think this is very good for the price. I had way more than that in the Shoebox and even more in the Omega. The Shoebox took 24 hours to fill this tank and you had to stop every so often. The Omega took almost the same maybe 1/3 faster than Shoebox and had to rebuild both of them several times. Don't know about this Venturi as it has not hiccupped yet. In fact seems to be a little faster than when I started. Some one aske about the Thermo coupling. It is mounted at the hottest part of the last cylinder and is digital Celsius. Tyler at Air Venturi says it will shut down at 95*C. Here are some pictures T filter which appears to be some sort of absorptive fiber long ways. And a wad of wide stainless steel at the bottom. Maybe Tyler will chime in and let us know what that is for.
I will put the picts on as soon as I can figure I can get photobucket to work. Pretty neat the hot air goes in bottom of the filter and thru the filter and goes to the tan and water and what little oil I see is drained when you purge the filter housing.
Bob
(http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=3833)
(http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=3832)
(http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=3830)
(http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=3829)
(http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=3827)
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Why add antifreeze?
I considered it might be for raising the boiling point but at 50% it would only add about 10 degrees and it reduces the specific heat.
Are you storing it in an unheated space?
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I use antifreeze and purple Ice # 1 it was stored in on my back deck. Now warm. #2 To be honest with ya it just makes me feel better for lack of better reasons.
Bob
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#2 To be honest with ya it just makes me feel better for lack of better reasons.
Bob
Now that is a very good reason. :)
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Booger
You did a good job on those picts what did U use Photo Bucket is down
Bob
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Booger
You did a good job on those picts what did U use Photo Bucket is down
Bob
Thank you and yes I did use photo bucket. :) My favorite is of my son with the gun I sold.
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Is that filter housing steel or alu, I'm kinda hoping its steel.
Marko
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Is that filter housing steel or alu, I'm kinda hoping its steel.
Marko
Well a magnet doesn't stick, it is panted black and appears to me to be a thick air craft alum aor painted stainless steel.
Bob
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How do you know its aircraft alu? Not to doubt but the wall thickness looks a bit thin on the thread part. The filter tower is subjected to a lot of stress cycles and should be built accordingly. Going every time from 0-4500psi when filling.
On the antifreeze part, always use 50-50 mix to prevent galvanic corrosion between different metals.
Marko
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How do you know its aircraft alu? Not to doubt but the wall thickness looks a bit thin on the thread part. The filter tower is subjected to a lot of stress cycles and should be built accordingly. Going every time from 0-4500psi when filling.
On the antifreeze part, always use 50-50 mix to prevent galvanic corrosion between different metals.
Marko
I don't know that it is alu, it looks thick I have pmed our friend Tyler hoping he would chime in on that. past the threaded plug it is pretty thick. And I do use 50-50 mix and purple ice.
Bob
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Yes, the housing for the output filter is aluminum.
Bob, looking at the pics of your output filter, about how much use has that filter seen?
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Tyler I have about 6 maybe 7 hours on that filter. Weather has been so screwed up hadn't been shoot ing much. Most of it is on the testing and review. I really like it so far. Pass it on if you like. And I am sure that is Aircraft alum. right? BTW how do you like the reviews?
Cya
Bob
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Here We are years later and I just have to report on my AV 4500 and how bad arsed this thing has been!
Matt (insanity) can back me up on everything I post here incase anyone wonders.
I got mine back around October 2017. When they were $1200 delivered. I used a good oil and added Royal Purple to the water coolent system.
In the years since I got it? I've never added NOR changed the oil or coolant!
Not even the filter was changed!
Only thing it has ever needed was a battery for the temp gauge.
I kept it in the house up until a couple months ago. Today I moved it back into the house fearing the coolant would freeze.
It was kind of slushy but not a solid frozen block of destruction.
I'm gonna give it it's FIRST oil change and filter change along with a new mix of coolant.
So that's right around 6 years I've abused this compressor by neglect.
It has filled 4500 PSI SCBA and 3000 PSI SCUBA tanks many, MANY times. Not to mention Air Guns as needed.
So you can try to spank me for not doing regular service work if you wish.
All I will say, and others who have had access to this AV will say, is..........
It's a fantastic compressor!
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That compressor is a champ thats for sure.
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Good to know! My AV-4500 is still going strong also. I always change the oil every six hours of runtime. I use the Ingersol Rand all seasons select oil. I also use 50/50 antifreeze and add a wetting agent. It has never run hotter than 67°C. I did replace the filter with the extra one that came with it. The old filter wasn't super bad but was funky enough. I'd have to check but think I bought mine in 2015. I only fill a 60-minute and a 30-minute tank with it. My .357 and .30 cal use a lot of air and I do a lot of tuning and testing. This compressor has been awesome. It has blown the burst disc two times (fun) because of how I used to use it. I started utilizing the check valve on my Stikman fill assembly and all has been well since.
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I really need to add a run time thingy to mine.
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I really need to add a run time thingy to mine.
I've got an hour meter attached to mine, but I prefer to use a stopwatch and an Excel spreadsheet to keep up with the runtime and maintenance schedule. I rarely ever look at the hour meter. I don't trust it to be accurate and it is hard to read. The stopwatch I can carry back to the computer and log when I get around to it.
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I'm not that dedicated as is obvious since I ran so long with NO maintenance what so ever.
;D
But to be honest? I wanted to see how tough this compressor was.
It speaks for itself at this point in time.