Should I get a drooper base? 4-12 Hawke on Diana 460 Magnum. Symptoms are:
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All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General
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Optics, Range estimation & related subjects
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Should I get a drooper base? 4-12 Hawke on Diana 460 Magnum. Symptoms are:
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Topic: Should I get a drooper base? 4-12 Hawke on Diana 460 Magnum. Symptoms are: (Read 687 times))
Tallbald
Sharp Shooter
Posts: 620
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Real Name: Don
Should I get a drooper base? 4-12 Hawke on Diana 460 Magnum. Symptoms are:
«
on:
March 18, 2021, 11:56:32 AM »
Bought a Diana 460 Magnum .22 springer from friend already fitted with 4-12 Hawke and what appears to be straight base i.e. no writing to say minutes of compensation. He bought the combo from a large airgun dealer when he was new to the sport.
Trying 21+ grain H&N Baracuda Match at 20 yards (farthest of back yard range). POI dropped almost 3 inches from POI with RWS 14+ grain Superdomes.Wonderful groups with the 21+ grainers though I should add. Ran vertical scope adjustment up to meet bullseye with 21+ grain pellets. and scope appears to have run out of adjustment because POI started shifting with subsequent shots. Per advice here, and thank you all once more, I backed off vertical adjustment and all seems fine except I must tolerate 1 1/2 inches or so POI below bullseye.
When I can finally find 18 grain pellets to try in my Diana 460, I'd rather not have to tolerate a POI below the bullseye. I have no idea where the 18 grain pellets will hit though.
Would folks here suggest buying and fitting a drooper base while waiting to find 18 grain pellets to try? Is there a formula I shoulld use to decide what compensation drooper base is needed?
Also. The scope rings on the combo I bought only have one screw securing the top half of each ring. Many springer setups I see here use a two-screw securing arrangement. I don't notice any scope setback with shooting but isn't now the time to change to a different ring set?
Lastly, I looked online at Amazon and the UTG drooper base I find listed specifies it's not available and that it fits Diana guns with the T05 trigger. My 460 has the T06 trigger. Other suggestions for a drooper base brand and model please? I receive a discount and sometimes free shipping using Amazon.
Below are photos of my rifle combo .
Thank you. Don
«
Last Edit: March 18, 2021, 12:17:07 PM by Tallbald
»
Logged
..Kentucky
"All my air guns are LCPs, or "locally charged pneumatics" using the hand operated compressor built into each one in a crafty engineering manner". Don
Diana .177 34 Classic rifle
Diana 460 .22
Benjamin 392PA, .22 pumper rifle
Benjamin 392S, .22 pumper rifle
Crosman H9A .22 pumper pistol
Ruger .177 springer pistol from my loving wife
Benjamin Franklin 347, .177 rifle circa 1976
Xisico XS46U .22. Full, Flying Dragon tune
Roadworthy
Honorary GTA Moderator
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Real Name: Thomas
Re: Should I get a drooper base? 4-12 Hawke on Diana 460 Magnum. Symptoms are:
«
Reply #1 on:
March 18, 2021, 12:28:41 PM »
A three inc drop over twenty yards seems excessive to me. Try the tissue test on your breech seal before doing anything. Shoot over a chronograph with your different weight pellets to see what's going on. If you don't have one you may need to disassemble your gun to check spring and piston seal. If the drooper base at Amazon is for a T05 model it may be the one with the "foot" on the front which holes it at the very front of the scope mount base. On a T06 gun that could put the scope too far forward as the T06 gun has a longer scope base.
Logged
Near the Southern Coast of Washington State
Real knowledge is knowing the extent of one's ignorance.
Bayman
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 4838
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Real Name: Ron
Re: Should I get a drooper base? 4-12 Hawke on Diana 460 Magnum. Symptoms are:
«
Reply #2 on:
March 18, 2021, 01:08:18 PM »
Have a look at this and add a regular set of weaver rings and you're good to go.
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/utg-drooper-scope-rail-11mm-to-weaver-adapter-compensates-for-droop?a=4191
Logged
USA,
Hw30- .177- Vortek PG2, Tech sights
Hw30 Laminate- .177- Vortek PG2, Hawke
Airmax 2-7x32 AO.
Hw30-.177 Vortek PG3 steel, Hawke Vantage IR 2-7x32 AO
Hw50- .177- Vortek PG3, Hawke 4X non A/O
Hw95- .177- Vortek PG2, Hawke Airmax 3-9x40
R9 SE (Blue Laminate stock) - 0.020- Vortek PG4, Hawke Airmax 3-9x40 AO
Hw97SE (Green 77 Laminate stock)-.177 Vortek PG3, Hawke 4-12x40 Airmax
R1-.177 now 0.22 - Vortek Pg4, Hawke Airmax 3-9x40 AO
Hw95 Field Pro 0.22 custom Vortek kit, Hawke Airmax 3-9x40 AO
Hw98 0.20 Hawke Airmax 3-9x40 AO
P1- 0.20 now .177
JuryRigger
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Real Name: Jesse
Re: Should I get a drooper base? 4-12 Hawke on Diana 460 Magnum. Symptoms are:
«
Reply #3 on:
March 18, 2021, 01:36:36 PM »
I think Roadworthy is on to something; I have a 350 Magnum (less power than you have; or should be) and I do not see that much drop when I go from 16-grain Polymags to the 21-grain Barracudas... Off the top of my head; it was more like 1.5-2", and at 30 yards, not 20...
Maybe an apples-to-oranges comparison; but I would check things out like Roadworthy suggested...
Jesse
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Ohio
"Genius errs, if possible, more badly than pedantry. But mathematics, properly directed, cannot fail"-Captain Nemo
"Numbers don't lie until they're cherry-picked statistics"-Forest Addy
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"If you are trained, you will do what you're trained to do-if you're untrained you'll flop around like a fish"-Paul Harrell
Tallbald
Sharp Shooter
Posts: 620
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Real Name: Don
Re: Should I get a drooper base? 4-12 Hawke on Diana 460 Magnum. Symptoms are:
«
Reply #4 on:
March 18, 2021, 02:34:00 PM »
I'll do the tissue test then. I appreciate the insight. If the tissue test is OK my question is whether or not the scope was for some other reason toward the maximum vertical adjustment when I started testing. Should I learn my gun fails the tissue test, I'll seek advice on correcting. I know this weapon has not been abused or modified. Most of the last three years was spent leaned in a closet corner after my friend went totally PCP. Only sold it to me as he said "I know Don you'll care for it. It's a beautiful gun and the only thing you'd ever do is make it better...". That's why I got the combo for $400. He refused my offer of more.
I'll get back here with my findings. And thank you for the link very much. Heaven knows how many ring sets I've accumulated over 50 years.
Again thanks all.
Don
Logged
..Kentucky
"All my air guns are LCPs, or "locally charged pneumatics" using the hand operated compressor built into each one in a crafty engineering manner". Don
Diana .177 34 Classic rifle
Diana 460 .22
Benjamin 392PA, .22 pumper rifle
Benjamin 392S, .22 pumper rifle
Crosman H9A .22 pumper pistol
Ruger .177 springer pistol from my loving wife
Benjamin Franklin 347, .177 rifle circa 1976
Xisico XS46U .22. Full, Flying Dragon tune
Roadworthy
Honorary GTA Moderator
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 9703
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Real Name: Thomas
Re: Should I get a drooper base? 4-12 Hawke on Diana 460 Magnum. Symptoms are:
«
Reply #5 on:
March 18, 2021, 03:27:09 PM »
You may also want to try the gun with open sights to see what kind of altitude variation you get with different pellets. At twenty yards it seems to me it should be less than an inch.
Logged
Near the Southern Coast of Washington State
Real knowledge is knowing the extent of one's ignorance.
Bayman
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 4838
yes
Real Name: Ron
Re: Should I get a drooper base? 4-12 Hawke on Diana 460 Magnum. Symptoms are:
«
Reply #6 on:
March 18, 2021, 04:02:40 PM »
I'm not familiar with the rifles out put. I'm assuming that you don't have a chronograph to check the power output. People here are suggesting that the power may be down due to the difference between the point of inpact between the two weight pellets. Perhaps someone here with the same rifle can check the drop between the two pellets for comparison. Or perhaps compare whether or not it shoot through a 3/4" plywood sheet at 20 yards. There should be someway you can compare stories with someone with the same gun to tell if it's up to par.
I don't shoot 22 and the difference between 14 and 21 grain is pretty great but 3" is a big difference in POI at only 20 yards. Hopefully someone familiar with your type gun can help you.
Logged
USA,
Hw30- .177- Vortek PG2, Tech sights
Hw30 Laminate- .177- Vortek PG2, Hawke
Airmax 2-7x32 AO.
Hw30-.177 Vortek PG3 steel, Hawke Vantage IR 2-7x32 AO
Hw50- .177- Vortek PG3, Hawke 4X non A/O
Hw95- .177- Vortek PG2, Hawke Airmax 3-9x40
R9 SE (Blue Laminate stock) - 0.020- Vortek PG4, Hawke Airmax 3-9x40 AO
Hw97SE (Green 77 Laminate stock)-.177 Vortek PG3, Hawke 4-12x40 Airmax
R1-.177 now 0.22 - Vortek Pg4, Hawke Airmax 3-9x40 AO
Hw95 Field Pro 0.22 custom Vortek kit, Hawke Airmax 3-9x40 AO
Hw98 0.20 Hawke Airmax 3-9x40 AO
P1- 0.20 now .177
Tallbald
Sharp Shooter
Posts: 620
yes
Real Name: Don
Re: Should I get a drooper base? 4-12 Hawke on Diana 460 Magnum. Symptoms are:
«
Reply #7 on:
March 18, 2021, 05:32:16 PM »
Thank you again. No. No I don't have a chronograph. Likely when something on consignment at the gun shop sells I'll look into chronographs. Several small purchases hinge on a sale but that's OK because to me, delayed gratification can be a bit of gratification in itself!
Whoops! Hold the phone. I may have troubles I need to look into. Or be taught about diagnosing. Following links about drooper bases I found a photo on an airgun dealer's site that shows closely the RWS brand drooper base with an arrow pointing toward one end of the base. Took a close look at my 460 Magnum as it's already set up and sure enough there's that same arrow under the scope sort of discretely pointing toward the muzzle. I was expecting markings on the side like my UTG drooper base and missed the arrow.
So. If it's already on a compensated base and still dropped 3 inches at 20 yards when I switched to 21+ grain pellets from 14 grains I'll have more information to share in asking advice.
Thanks again.
DOn
«
Last Edit: March 18, 2021, 05:54:40 PM by Tallbald
»
Logged
..Kentucky
"All my air guns are LCPs, or "locally charged pneumatics" using the hand operated compressor built into each one in a crafty engineering manner". Don
Diana .177 34 Classic rifle
Diana 460 .22
Benjamin 392PA, .22 pumper rifle
Benjamin 392S, .22 pumper rifle
Crosman H9A .22 pumper pistol
Ruger .177 springer pistol from my loving wife
Benjamin Franklin 347, .177 rifle circa 1976
Xisico XS46U .22. Full, Flying Dragon tune
Tallbald
Sharp Shooter
Posts: 620
yes
Real Name: Don
Re: Should I get a drooper base? 4-12 Hawke on Diana 460 Magnum. Symptoms are:
«
Reply #8 on:
March 18, 2021, 08:45:33 PM »
Tissue test with a kleenex laid across the closed Diana 460 breech as it was fired showed no cutting or movement at all of the tissue. So that part seems good. Not sure whether to wonder about a leak or any other pressure trouble. Thoughts about the 3 inch drop at 20yards when I switched from Superdome 14+ grain pellets to 21+ grain H&N Baracuda Match? SHort of a chrony I don't see any other thing to check out. Don
Logged
..Kentucky
"All my air guns are LCPs, or "locally charged pneumatics" using the hand operated compressor built into each one in a crafty engineering manner". Don
Diana .177 34 Classic rifle
Diana 460 .22
Benjamin 392PA, .22 pumper rifle
Benjamin 392S, .22 pumper rifle
Crosman H9A .22 pumper pistol
Ruger .177 springer pistol from my loving wife
Benjamin Franklin 347, .177 rifle circa 1976
Xisico XS46U .22. Full, Flying Dragon tune
Yogi
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 7435
yes
Real Name: Yogi
Re: Should I get a drooper base? 4-12 Hawke on Diana 460 Magnum. Symptoms are:
«
Reply #9 on:
March 18, 2021, 09:52:41 PM »
Why don't you just shoot 18 grain pellets and leave the jumbo's to the PCP crowd?
-Y
Logged
San Francisco, CA
Hatsan 95 Vortex, .22
RWS 5G,
Diana 10M
RWS LP8 Magnum,
Diana 340 N-Tec, .22 Compact Lexus
HW 50S, .177, .20, and .22
Tallbald
Sharp Shooter
Posts: 620
yes
Real Name: Don
Re: Should I get a drooper base? 4-12 Hawke on Diana 460 Magnum. Symptoms are:
«
Reply #10 on:
March 18, 2021, 10:45:30 PM »
If I could find any dealer with 18 grain pellets in stock I'd be tickled to buy a thousand and do just that. I'm on lists to be notified, and check every other day for Air Arms 18 grain as well as JSB 18 grain. Might as well be looking for 9mm Luger ammo in bulk packs. And I politely decline the wonderful and thoughtful offers of other members here to share some of their precious supply with me. I can wait for some to become available. Now were it insulin for my beloved wife I'd be all over a kind offer....
Don
Logged
..Kentucky
"All my air guns are LCPs, or "locally charged pneumatics" using the hand operated compressor built into each one in a crafty engineering manner". Don
Diana .177 34 Classic rifle
Diana 460 .22
Benjamin 392PA, .22 pumper rifle
Benjamin 392S, .22 pumper rifle
Crosman H9A .22 pumper pistol
Ruger .177 springer pistol from my loving wife
Benjamin Franklin 347, .177 rifle circa 1976
Xisico XS46U .22. Full, Flying Dragon tune
Yogi
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 7435
yes
Real Name: Yogi
Re: Should I get a drooper base? 4-12 Hawke on Diana 460 Magnum. Symptoms are:
«
Reply #11 on:
March 19, 2021, 07:32:10 AM »
Well,
Here you go. Just about ALL are in stock and ready to ship:
https://www.krale.shop/us/sport-shooting/ammunition/airgun-pellets/manufacturer-h_n-jsb-caliber_multi-5_5_mm_22_1/?p=2&product_list_limit=32
-Y
Logged
San Francisco, CA
Hatsan 95 Vortex, .22
RWS 5G,
Diana 10M
RWS LP8 Magnum,
Diana 340 N-Tec, .22 Compact Lexus
HW 50S, .177, .20, and .22
Tallbald
Sharp Shooter
Posts: 620
yes
Real Name: Don
Re: Should I get a drooper base? 4-12 Hawke on Diana 460 Magnum. Symptoms are:
«
Reply #12 on:
March 19, 2021, 10:24:39 AM »
Very nice and thank you. I'll create an account and make my selections. See what shipping costs would be. WIll also contact the friend that I bought my 460 from to see if he too needs to restock. A good possibility. I appreciate the link and will follow up here.
Let me ask. In higher power springers and multipumpers like my Benjis, would the 15 grain range pellets be a good possibility for precision grouping love? All I have had to try are RWS Superdomes in .22, and the Baracuda Match at 21 grain. I do know the 10+ grain Baracuda Matchs in .177 shoot very nicely in my 1977 vintage Benji multipump.
I know these pellet weight questions are off topic in this thread but think it good to ask where the idea of in stock pellets is brought up.
Thanks again. Don
Don
Logged
..Kentucky
"All my air guns are LCPs, or "locally charged pneumatics" using the hand operated compressor built into each one in a crafty engineering manner". Don
Diana .177 34 Classic rifle
Diana 460 .22
Benjamin 392PA, .22 pumper rifle
Benjamin 392S, .22 pumper rifle
Crosman H9A .22 pumper pistol
Ruger .177 springer pistol from my loving wife
Benjamin Franklin 347, .177 rifle circa 1976
Xisico XS46U .22. Full, Flying Dragon tune
Yogi
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 7435
yes
Real Name: Yogi
Re: Should I get a drooper base? 4-12 Hawke on Diana 460 Magnum. Symptoms are:
«
Reply #13 on:
March 20, 2021, 10:19:12 PM »
I believe that most airguns shoot well in the 750-850 range. Fast does not mean better.
Krale is great, just order a bunch of stuff because they have pretty much fixed shipping costs. I believe that the MTC Cobra scope is the best $110 scope around. Usually people take advantage of their great Weihrauch prices and order 2.
-Y
Logged
San Francisco, CA
Hatsan 95 Vortex, .22
RWS 5G,
Diana 10M
RWS LP8 Magnum,
Diana 340 N-Tec, .22 Compact Lexus
HW 50S, .177, .20, and .22
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Should I get a drooper base? 4-12 Hawke on Diana 460 Magnum. Symptoms are: